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Regarding Heal Exploit, - OFFICIALFollow

#52 Sep 27 2010 at 5:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
And in reply to:
Quote:
The problem is... some people would have no idea they are doing anything wrong...

The same people very likely won't go around reading forums checking for possible issues with xp systems.

Random person logs in one day and their account is banned and they have no idea why.

Then better teach 'em.
And, like, MMORPG players normally don't use the internet and forums, eh?


If I had to guess...

the majority don't read forums. a minority that do wouldn't check all that often.

It's a very small majority that read forums on a consistent basis.

I'm glad you think saying 'eh?' is clever since I'm Canadian and all, but it just shows how ignorant you are.
#53 Sep 27 2010 at 5:51 AM Rating: Good
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ShonaSeraph wrote:

it makes sense to you that someone isn't going to try and get skill points as quickly as possible?

why are so many people making comparisons to real-life crimes?
It's skill-ups in a video game...
People will do what is quickest, to not do so is inefficient.



To be honest, that is the same reasoning botters, RMT, hackers, scammers, and cheaters use.
"I can get there faster if I hack through this wall."
"I can get this stuff faster if I con this guy out of it."
"I can get gil faster if I buy it from someone else."


Most people actually do not do what is quickest when playing a GAME, we do what is the most FUN for us.
People who abused this exp bug most likely had plans on using the game as some sort of profitable investment or status symbol, not as something they were doing purely for fun.
#54 Sep 27 2010 at 5:51 AM Rating: Decent
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not to start anything but "eh" isnt just canadian, i say eh all the time.. tho it sounds more like Ey, eh is another way of saying what where im from. so that was a bit hostile....... lol sorry
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#55 Sep 27 2010 at 5:52 AM Rating: Decent
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ShonaSeraph wrote:
................
why are so many people making comparisons to real-life crimes?
It's skill-ups in a video game...
People will do what is quickest, to not do so is inefficient.



Ya, peeps exploit video games stuff because its the most efficient to get things done.

Ya, and peeps will always exploit because its more efficient.

So if its efficient and proper then why its called an exploit?

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#56 Sep 27 2010 at 5:55 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I'm glad you think saying 'eh?' is clever since I'm Canadian and all, but it just shows how ignorant you are.


@ShonaSeraph:
Well, being japanese, I actually have no clue about Canadian speaking customs.
That aside:

Your signature lacks the "CON 35 / THM 35" part.
#57 Sep 27 2010 at 5:55 AM Rating: Good
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IT is no just "oh we got more skillups for curing, yay"

People realized if you engaged the enemy but never atacked it, you would get skill points from curing, which you dont get by just being idle. You had to trick the systme into thinking you were currently fighting.

It's obviously exploiting the system.

In FFXI SMNburns would just pull the zone, and then hit them with an AoE. While ridiculous exp was gotten, it was limited by having a 2 hour available and SE did investigate this for abuse. They used their judgement and determined they didn't mind people leveling in this manner because of the limit.

But the games been out for what 5 days? And there's level 40 cons from this abuse. They won't ban, they said suspension. It's not the same. They will reset their rank and give the ma suspension. Enough of a punishment to send the community the msg we knew from FFXI:

Report these exploits, do not use them or we will bring the wrath.
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#58 Sep 27 2010 at 5:55 AM Rating: Default
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Agree to disagree I guess.

Over-curing to get more skill-ups to me is broken. But to say it's cheating/hacking/exploiting is wrong.
#59 Sep 27 2010 at 5:56 AM Rating: Decent
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This is not stealing. It is not an unlawful crime. It is simply bad planning on SE's part.

SE expected people to go kill their leve targets and be done with it. They didn't expect you to use that 3% of your brain that you have available to you and figure out that you can spend that entire 30 minutes getting your skills up.

Quite frankly, I am offended.


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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#60 Sep 27 2010 at 5:57 AM Rating: Decent
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ShonaSeraph wrote:
Agree to disagree I guess.

Over-curing to get more skill-ups to me is broken. But to say it's cheating/hacking/exploiting is wrong.


It's considered exploiting because the party members stands there without killing the mob while the Conj/THM heals the entire group with aoe heals. Every person who gets healed by the aoe heal equals to skill points going up. Do you not see what's wrong with that picture?

Let me clarify even more. Yesterday, there was a bot train near Emerald Moss. They all went up to a mob, engaged, stood there while the CONJ healed over and over again. I didn't know what was going on until just now; finding out about the exploit.

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 7:58am by Tenkuro
#61 Sep 27 2010 at 5:57 AM Rating: Default
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
I'm glad you think saying 'eh?' is clever since I'm Canadian and all, but it just shows how ignorant you are.


@ShonaSeraph:
Well, being japanese, I actually have no clue about Canadian speaking customs.
That aside:

Your signature lacks the "CON 35 / THM 35" part.


Nice try... I play pugilist.

CON and THM are both 'rank -' since I have yet to even purchase and equip the main weapons.

#62 Sep 27 2010 at 5:57 AM Rating: Good
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ShonaSeraph wrote:
Agree to disagree I guess.

Over-curing to get more skill-ups to me is broken. But to say it's cheating/hacking/exploiting is wrong.


That's the thing though, they weren't 'curing' they were just spamming abilities for ridiculous amounts of class xp. It had nothing to do with recovering hp or fighting or doing the leve at all.
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#63Frebaut, Posted: Sep 27 2010 at 5:57 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I have not played a magic class yet.
#64 Sep 27 2010 at 6:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Frebaut wrote:
I have not played a magic class yet.
I think its unfair, yes unfair that SE is penalizing players that found a way to get exp. They should of had this in Beta. Sorry SE but they are playing the game the way YOU programmed it. Not their fault they got a sh*t load of experience points. I did not know this even existed until I read the thread earlier. Do I think its cheating? No, why cause they could get mad exp when healing.
In the open beta you could do this when you were fishing and because of the OB they fixed it. They should of had healing EXP in OB so they could fix it before retail hit. So whats going to happen next oh sorry the Dodo skin you turned in you got to much gil for so you now own us XXXXX gil, I think not. If SE releases anything in retail before testing it how are the players at fault? When they release a patch or anything new SE needs to keep a close eye on it find the trend and change it if they think they programmed it wrong or is not working the way they intended.
Like earlier said I haven't touched a Magic class and this had zero benefit to me nor did it mess up my game. Having a player a higher level then me will do nothing. Come the 30rd of this month are we going back to level one because of all the new player? ummm no.

This is just my opinion on the Watergate Exp FFXIV 2010.


So what's wrong with the person who did this, intentionally or unintentionally, reporting to SE that it happened to them? Why is it a big deal? They also said that if they find it to not be malignant, they wouldn't punish. It's obviously Malignant when you see your rank at 30 while your physical level is still 8.
#65 Sep 27 2010 at 6:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Frebaut wrote:
....................... Come the 30rd of this month are we going back to level one because of all the new player? ummm no.



Yes, NO. (>...>

Come 30th we will be the same level as we leveled it, thats why its called a early release.
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#66 Sep 27 2010 at 6:01 AM Rating: Default
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SickleSageKiroh wrote:
ShonaSeraph wrote:
Agree to disagree I guess.

Over-curing to get more skill-ups to me is broken. But to say it's cheating/hacking/exploiting is wrong.


That's the thing though, they weren't 'curing' they were just spamming abilities for ridiculous amounts of class xp. It had nothing to do with recovering hp or fighting or doing the leve at all.


OH MY GOD!!! THEY WERE USING THEIR SKILLS TO GET RANK POINTS!!!!!!!

Sounds like working as intended to me...

Is your solution to stand around doing nothing to accrue class rank?
#67 Sep 27 2010 at 6:04 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Nice try... I play pugilist.

CON and THM are both 'rank -' since I have yet to even purchase and equip the main weapons.

Nice try, but your FF11 signature says WHM/BRD/DNC 75.
Human beings tend to be slaves of their own customs.
I'll leave it to the forum to decide who's guess/claim is more likely.
#69 Sep 27 2010 at 6:07 AM Rating: Good
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ShonaSeraph wrote:
SickleSageKiroh wrote:
ShonaSeraph wrote:
Agree to disagree I guess.

Over-curing to get more skill-ups to me is broken. But to say it's cheating/hacking/exploiting is wrong.


That's the thing though, they weren't 'curing' they were just spamming abilities for ridiculous amounts of class xp. It had nothing to do with recovering hp or fighting or doing the leve at all.


OH MY GOD!!! THEY WERE USING THEIR SKILLS TO GET RANK POINTS!!!!!!!

Sounds like working as intended to me...

Is your solution to stand around doing nothing to accrue class rank?


No, you know what, no. I'm not going to feed your trolling anymore.

SE can do whatever they want with their intellectual property and there's not a ******* thing you or anyone can legally do about it. If they want to ban you for whatever reason, they have every right. If you don't like it, don't play. Really, it's not going to hurt our feelings if you leave.
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#70 Sep 27 2010 at 6:07 AM Rating: Good
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ShonaSeraph wrote:

Quote:
ok then you should be picking rice instead of being on the computer...
anyways, i'm off to play, have a nice day. =)


...uhuhu, turning to racial allusion when cornered, eh?
Let's hope there's a character left for you to return to.

NOT ^.^/


Edited, Sep 27th 2010 8:08am by Rinsui
#71FilthMcNasty, Posted: Sep 27 2010 at 6:07 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Again, it was never a secret. This was brought up in closed beta testing, but because SE ignored or didn't comprehend the feedback it was not addressed. Don't feel too bad that you were not able to figure it out on your own though. SE doesn't expect your brain to be able to grasp such a complex thought.
#72 Sep 27 2010 at 6:10 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
SickleSageKiroh wrote:
A.) If people really thought that this was the most efficient way rather than an exploit, it would not have been kept a secret from the general playerbase as long as it was.

Again, it was never a secret. This was brought up in closed beta testing, but because SE ignored or didn't comprehend the feedback it was not addressed. Don't feel too bad that you were not able to figure it out on your own though. SE doesn't expect your brain to be able to grasp such a complex thought.


Believe it or not, not everyone plays a game thinking "How can I exploit everything to my advantage?". Some of us play because we enjoy the game.

Of course when you have no defense to something it's quite normal to attack someone's intelligence to avoid giving a reasonable or intelligible answer to what's being asked.
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#73 Sep 27 2010 at 6:11 AM Rating: Good
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I don't understand why people are crying about SE's decision. Everyone has an equal opportunity to report what they did or didn't do. If they think they benefited from this mistake, all they have to do is report themselves so that they can have the peace of mind that they won't get banned 3 weeks down the road. They are also asking them to refrain from doing it. They didn't say to stop partying and healing your party members. They said to stop taking advantage of the flawed system. Join the party, heal members who needs healing, kill the mobs and finish. They also said they were INVESTIGATING to see who was taking advantage of the system and not reporting it in. I'm going to assume that there will be server messages and notices on login so that everyone understands the situation and takes care of it before they get penalized. I'm also sure that anybody who gets penalized wrongfully will have the opportunity to argue their case and ask for a second investigation.
#74 Sep 27 2010 at 6:17 AM Rating: Default
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This char in my server. Check it out

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/rc/character/status?cicuid=1034692

Physical Level : 26

Thaumaturgy Rank 19
Conjury Rank 20
Woodworking Rank 16
Armorcraft Rank 6
Goldsmithing Rank 4
Clothcraft Rank 10
Alchemy Rank 11
Botany Rank 11


#75 Sep 27 2010 at 6:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Night2020 wrote:
This char in my server. Check it out

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/rc/character/status?cicuid=1034692

Physical Level : 26

Thaumaturgy Rank 19
Conjury Rank 20
Woodworking Rank 16
Armorcraft Rank 6
Goldsmithing Rank 4
Clothcraft Rank 10
Alchemy Rank 11
Botany Rank 11




See, that right there is obviously an exploited character. How do you have 2 rank 20 characters with a rank 16 craft and only have 26 physical levels. All my classes/crafts are rank 10 and I'm already at physical level 24. That's just broken.
#76 Sep 27 2010 at 6:22 AM Rating: Default
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SickleSageKiroh wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Again, it was never a secret. This was brought up in closed beta testing, but because SE ignored or didn't comprehend the feedback it was not addressed. Don't feel too bad that you were not able to figure it out on your own though. SE doesn't expect your brain to be able to grasp such a complex thought.


Believe it or not, not everyone plays a game thinking "How can I exploit everything to my advantage?". Some of us play because we enjoy the game.

Of course when you have no defense to something it's quite normal to attack someone's intelligence to avoid giving a reasonable or intelligible answer to what's being asked.

Follow along with the natural thought progression for just a moment...

I get a chance to skillup each time I use an ability.
I get increased skillups during leves with guardian's favor.
I have 30 minutes to complete a guildleve.
If I spend as much of those 30 minutes using my abilities, I will get the most chances for skill ups.

For some people this is normal thought process. I happen to be one of those people. I was not attacking your intelligence. Please direct your attention back to the quote above. Notice the bolded part. I don't need a defense for logical thought. SE needs a defense for their crappy mechanic.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#77 Sep 27 2010 at 6:23 AM Rating: Decent
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The most hilarious thing about this is that, at least on my server, the "huge parties doing guildleves" were almost exclusively Japanese.
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#78 Sep 27 2010 at 6:27 AM Rating: Default
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JayRams wrote:
The most hilarious thing about this is that, at least on my server, the "huge parties doing guildleves" were almost exclusively Japanese.


Fail to see said hilarity.
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#79 Sep 27 2010 at 6:27 AM Rating: Good
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Tenkuro wrote:
Night2020 wrote:
This char in my server. Check it out

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/rc/character/status?cicuid=1034692

Physical Level : 26

Thaumaturgy Rank 19
Conjury Rank 20
Woodworking Rank 16
Armorcraft Rank 6
Goldsmithing Rank 4
Clothcraft Rank 10
Alchemy Rank 11
Botany Rank 11




See, that right there is obviously an exploited character. How do you have 2 rank 20 characters with a rank 16 craft and only have 26 physical levels. All my classes/crafts are rank 10 and I'm already at physical level 24. That's just broken.


How many classes do you have at 10? If it's a lot more than the 8 classes they've done it sounds like they just played their *** off on less classes. That example doesn't look that bad to me...physical takes a lot more exp than class rank. People with classes higher than their physical level however, obvious exploiting...

Though they may have used the exploit some -shrugs- I just don't think it's obvious they exploited...

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 8:31am by TwistedOwl
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#80 Sep 27 2010 at 6:31 AM Rating: Decent
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TwistedOwl wrote:
Tenkuro wrote:
Night2020 wrote:
This char in my server. Check it out

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/rc/character/status?cicuid=1034692

Physical Level : 26

Thaumaturgy Rank 19
Conjury Rank 20
Woodworking Rank 16
Armorcraft Rank 6
Goldsmithing Rank 4
Clothcraft Rank 10
Alchemy Rank 11
Botany Rank 11




See, that right there is obviously an exploited character. How do you have 2 rank 20 characters with a rank 16 craft and only have 26 physical levels. All my classes/crafts are rank 10 and I'm already at physical level 24. That's just broken.


How many classes do you have at 10? If it's a lot more than the 8 classes they've done it sounds like they just played their *** off on less classes. That example doesn't look that bad to me...physical takes a lot more exp than class rank. People with classes higher than their physical level however, obvious...


Ummm... that person's physical should be around 30 based on the rank level of the thm and conj alone. The math doesn't add up. You can check my classes here: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/rc/character/status?cicuid=1462720

Wait, let me put it into more perspective for you. My CONJ guildmate is rank 23 ONLY on her conj and only rank 10 on her THM and she's already physical level 25. She also has only one craft class at 11. Make sense?


Edited, Sep 27th 2010 8:36am by Tenkuro
#81 Sep 27 2010 at 6:37 AM Rating: Good
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Takes 18,000 class exp for rank20... x2 is 36,000...now also looking at their character page you see that it takes 110000exp for physical27.

Rank & Physical are on 2 different scales...can't just see a character favoring THM/CON and assume they're cheating...maybe they did exploit some...but I don't like the assumption that they're an obvious exploiter

Mainly because my only fighting classes are CON/THM = P
Don't want people thinking that of me

I think that particular character "could be" better explained if I watched them 24/7...I think it's possible to slaughter easy blue mobs for weak physical exp, but "ok" skillups. She may have done that...

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 8:42am by TwistedOwl
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#82 Sep 27 2010 at 6:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Tenkuro wrote:
See, that right there is obviously an exploited character. How do you have 2 rank 20 characters with a rank 16 craft and only have 26 physical levels. All my classes/crafts are rank 10 and I'm already at physical level 24. That's just broken.

And the witch-hunt begins! Of course the math doesn't add up. SE just acknowledge that there is a problem in how skill points are accrued across various classes. THM and CON being two of the classes that gained skill points faster than any other class regardless of exploit. Two classes which from the looks of it you have never played. How did you come to this decision?
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#83 Sep 27 2010 at 6:42 AM Rating: Default
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SE will be contacting you but oh well good for you... In case no one gets it Sarcasm
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#84 Sep 27 2010 at 6:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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This is good, but I hope they don't nuke the XP you get from healing ... some conjurers like to heal their parties and would like to get XP like everyone else while doing it.

Something tells me they are just going to kill healing xp though.
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#85 Sep 27 2010 at 7:00 AM Rating: Good
If I had done the exploit and were in the mid 20's, I would report myself to SE and say that I only gained 5 or 6 levels from the exploit >.>
#86 Sep 27 2010 at 7:01 AM Rating: Decent
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A version update of FINAL FANTASY XI was performed at the following time.

[Date & Time]
Sep. 27 at 5:00 (PDT)

[Affected Service]
- FINAL FANTASY XIV

[Details]
- An issue wherein during Guildleve and Behest, a large amount of skill points can be obtained by casting enhancing or healing magic to the party member has been addressed.
#87 Sep 27 2010 at 7:02 AM Rating: Default
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Tenkuro wrote:
See, that right there is obviously an exploited character. How do you have 2 rank 20 characters with a rank 16 craft and only have 26 physical levels. All my classes/crafts are rank 10 and I'm already at physical level 24. That's just broken.

And the witch-hunt begins! Of course the math doesn't add up. SE just acknowledge that there is a problem in how skill points are accrued across various classes. THM and CON being two of the classes that gained skill points faster than any other class regardless of exploit. Two classes which from the looks of it you have never played. How did you come to this decision?


Where did SE ackowledge that there is a problem in how skill points are accrued across various classes? This is the quote:

"We have confirmed an issue where players may be able to obtain abnormal amount of skill points while fighting in a party as Conjurer or Thaumaturge. The issue is currently being addressed.

Also we would like to remind that repeating this method intentionally to obtain abnormal amount of skill point is considered as fraudulent behavior. With players who have abused this method, an investigation shall be made and their account may be suspended in case we determine it to be malignant. The investigation is expected to take a while until the completion. For those of you who have abused this method, please report yourself through GM Call. By reporting yourself in, GM will correct the amount of skill point you have gained and the penalty to your account will be exempted.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused" - http://support.na.square-enix.com/news.php?id=902&la=1&n=2&drt=1285522200&tag=d4f18417af151c0e2ae87ad859a58df0c719ee44

They acknowledged that CONJ AND THM are able to obtain abnormal amount of skill points and states that there is a method to do it. How is that not an exploit? Please read the quote in context and not just bits and pieces of it. Obviously, if the CONJ/THM was leveling normally and killing the mob instead of healing a party that's standing around doing nothing, the exp discrepancy would not be so obvious. How can that player have two classes to 20, a crafter to 16 and various other classes to above 10 and only have a physical level of 26? I can sit here and do the math based on the exp chart, but I'm not going to waste my time. Anybody using common mathematical skills can see that it doesn't add up, especially with the fatigue system.

#88 Sep 27 2010 at 7:04 AM Rating: Decent
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xthunderblazex wrote:
A version update of FINAL FANTASY XI was performed at the following time.

[Date & Time]
Sep. 27 at 5:00 (PDT)

[Affected Service]
- FINAL FANTASY XIV

[Details]
- An issue wherein during Guildleve and Behest, a large amount of skill points can be obtained by casting enhancing or healing magic to the party member has been addressed.


And this proves that it was an exploit. If people didn't exploit and just went and killed the guildleve targets, the healers/buffers should not be getting too much experience cause the targets die fast. However, the exploiters who are whining knows that they told their party members to stand still and let them heal/buff them for 30 minutes.
#89 Sep 27 2010 at 7:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Nyu wrote:
This is good, but I hope they don't nuke the XP you get from healing ... some conjurers like to heal their parties and would like to get XP like everyone else while doing it.

Something tells me they are just going to kill healing xp though.


The exploit only works while doing guildleve and having party members stand around to buff/heal for 30 minutes.
#90 Sep 27 2010 at 7:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Myself, conjurer. I don't like melee while fighting ( healer job for lazy? maybe am lazy lol )

if I sat there and just do healing and buffing without doing anything, am I going to get banned? just for doing my job?

Please, SE, don't tell me that am cheater :) Just fix your system.

#91 Sep 27 2010 at 7:23 AM Rating: Decent
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TwistedOwl wrote:
Takes 18,000 class exp for rank20... x2 is 36,000...now also looking at their character page you see that it takes 110000exp for physical27.

Rank & Physical are on 2 different scales...can't just see a character favoring THM/CON and assume they're cheating...maybe they did exploit some...but I don't like the assumption that they're an obvious exploiter

Mainly because my only fighting classes are CON/THM = P
Don't want people thinking that of me

I think that particular character "could be" better explained if I watched them 24/7...I think it's possible to slaughter easy blue mobs for weak physical exp, but "ok" skillups. She may have done that...

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 8:42am by TwistedOwl



Here, easier for you to understand:

My guildmate who didn't exploit:

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/rc/character/status?cicuid=1806853

See how she needs 82000 total physical exp to get to physical level 23?
See how she's level 20 conjurer and doesn't have a THM that's 19?

110,000 - 82,000 = 28,000 (so the dude basically only gained less than 28,000 physical exp while getting THM to 19. Don't forget all his other classes)

In case you didn't know:

It's Total Gained EXP / Total EXP

You don't reset back to 0 everytime you level, it accumulates:

http://www.eorzeapedia.com/wiki/en/Experience_Points/Chart

#92 Sep 27 2010 at 7:24 AM Rating: Good
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I suspect anyone complaining about capped or level 40 characters is lying. Right now due to fatigue I think we're capped at 29 (or at least, this is the highest I've seen verified and I've searched).

I think there are two things going on here.

First, let me say that I've been in mageburn parties. The parties that I was in involved pulling high level mobs and bouncing them around while part of the alliance would attack and the other half would furiously keep them standing through heals and stoneskin spam. The highest XP/HR I saw was about 9K/hour. This was also limited by MP where our party would have to take downtime because we would run out of heal juice pretty quick. The most skill gain you could possibly get on a single kill is 500SP. I honestly can't imagine that this would be considered exploitive, and if it is then there is no way that S-E can introduce alliance party play that won't get mages banned. I took about 12 hours for me to bring both of my casters from 10 into the high teens, which while fast according to the "8 hours before surplus" mechanic that S-E envisioned, it isn't that much faster. My party actually had one guy that was trying to grind up to the surplus cap and in the time it took me to reach surplus (and almost to surplus on the other caster class) only made it to about 19.25 before tossing in the towel. I suspect it would have taken a few days nonstop to get to the 29 hard cap doing this.

I think there is a second method that involves leves, and I think this is what they are freaking out about. In leves the per-kill SP is much higher ... it is at least 1000. You're also dealing with low HP mobs which are pop-on-command and when the mobs are dead you can use the aetherite and get a free MP refill. I can easily see an organized alliance being able to pull of 50K/hr by sharing leves, particularly since the people doing this were able to hit the 29 hard cap in an afternoon doing this. I can totally see them considering this exploitative since you're taking advantage of three things: free MP refills, custom (weak) spawned mobs, and leve XP bonuses. I think this right here is what S-E is going after with the ban hammer.

What leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth is that this is a kneejerk reaction on S-E's part for PR purposes. What is happening in both of the above two scenarios is the same thing that happened in FFXI in skill-up parties, so it shouldn't come as any surprise that the same scenario is being played out here. In fact, it could be argued that getting 15 gladiators together to shield up on hard mobs and spamming attacks with weathered and broken weapons is exploitative too, particularly if done on leve mobs. The funny part about this "exploit" is that it is also self-limiting: sure, you can skill up a job, but your physical level will be low horribly gimping you.

The problem that we're going to face is that the only way to fix this issue is to remove skill ups from healing or buffing and that would break healers bringing us back to where we were in Alpha/early Beta: nobody will want to heal so that they can get skill too.

So here is the question I pose to you all: where do you draw the line? Is any AOE buffing or healing to be considered exploitative? If so, you will curse yourself to be without healers. If only the leve method is considered exploitative, then you still allow casters a method to party level, but now you have to police the leve camps.

This is going to be an ugly mess before it is over. Contrary to some that call for the banning of all mages or they'll quit, I would have to say that I'll bail if they decide to overreach and go after all mages that skill off of heals and buffs. Casters are at a serious disadvantage with their nukes for skill gains in parties leaving them nothing but solo play that would be "non-bannable" yet would net them skill ... and I'm not interested in playing Black Mage 2.0. In fact scratch that: you couldn't even do Black Mage parties in this game because if you use a buff you get banned.

I would propose that the fix is thus: cap the skill gain on a single spell cast to 100 SP (150 in leves). Do the same for all attacks as well. Also put in a fatigue wall at a certain SP/HR rate (i.e. at 10K/hr you hit 90% loss until the next hour). If they do this the problem should fix itself.
#93 Sep 27 2010 at 7:24 AM Rating: Decent
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95 posts
Night2020 wrote:
Myself, conjurer. I don't like melee while fighting ( healer job for lazy? maybe am lazy lol )

if I sat there and just do healing and buffing without doing anything, am I going to get banned? just for doing my job?

Please, SE, don't tell me that am cheater :) Just fix your system.



If you told your party members to not kill the monster while doing a guildleve and just standing around so you can heal/buff them. Yeah, you're exploiting and deserve to be banned. Do your job correctly and not take advantage of it to gain experience abnormally faster than you should be. K thanks, bye.
#94 Sep 27 2010 at 7:26 AM Rating: Default
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95 posts
airspirit wrote:
I suspect anyone complaining about capped or level 40 characters is lying. Right now due to fatigue I think we're capped at 29 (or at least, this is the highest I've seen verified and I've searched).

I think there are two things going on here.

First, let me say that I've been in mageburn parties. The parties that I was in involved pulling high level mobs and bouncing them around while part of the alliance would attack and the other half would furiously keep them standing through heals and stoneskin spam. The highest XP/HR I saw was about 9K/hour. This was also limited by MP where our party would have to take downtime because we would run out of heal juice pretty quick. The most skill gain you could possibly get on a single kill is 500SP. I honestly can't imagine that this would be considered exploitive, and if it is then there is no way that S-E can introduce alliance party play that won't get mages banned. I took about 12 hours for me to bring both of my casters from 10 into the high teens, which while fast according to the "8 hours before surplus" mechanic that S-E envisioned, it isn't that much faster. My party actually had one guy that was trying to grind up to the surplus cap and in the time it took me to reach surplus (and almost to surplus on the other caster class) only made it to about 19.25 before tossing in the towel. I suspect it would have taken a few days nonstop to get to the 29 hard cap doing this.

I think there is a second method that involves leves, and I think this is what they are freaking out about. In leves the per-kill SP is much higher ... it is at least 1000. You're also dealing with low HP mobs which are pop-on-command and when the mobs are dead you can use the aetherite and get a free MP refill. I can easily see an organized alliance being able to pull of 50K/hr by sharing leves, particularly since the people doing this were able to hit the 29 hard cap in an afternoon doing this. I can totally see them considering this exploitative since you're taking advantage of three things: free MP refills, custom (weak) spawned mobs, and leve XP bonuses. I think this right here is what S-E is going after with the ban hammer.

What leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth is that this is a kneejerk reaction on S-E's part for PR purposes. What is happening in both of the above two scenarios is the same thing that happened in FFXI in skill-up parties, so it shouldn't come as any surprise that the same scenario is being played out here. In fact, it could be argued that getting 15 gladiators together to shield up on hard mobs and spamming attacks with weathered and broken weapons is exploitative too, particularly if done on leve mobs. The funny part about this "exploit" is that it is also self-limiting: sure, you can skill up a job, but your physical level will be low horribly gimping you.

The problem that we're going to face is that the only way to fix this issue is to remove skill ups from healing or buffing and that would break healers bringing us back to where we were in Alpha/early Beta: nobody will want to heal so that they can get skill too.

So here is the question I pose to you all: where do you draw the line? Is any AOE buffing or healing to be considered exploitative? If so, you will curse yourself to be without healers. If only the leve method is considered exploitative, then you still allow casters a method to party level, but now you have to police the leve camps.

This is going to be an ugly mess before it is over. Contrary to some that call for the banning of all mages or they'll quit, I would have to say that I'll bail if they decide to overreach and go after all mages that skill off of heals and buffs. Casters are at a serious disadvantage with their nukes for skill gains in parties leaving them nothing but solo play that would be "non-bannable" yet would net them skill ... and I'm not interested in playing Black Mage 2.0. In fact scratch that: you couldn't even do Black Mage parties in this game because if you use a buff you get banned.

I would propose that the fix is thus: cap the skill gain on a single spell cast to 100 SP (150 in leves). Do the same for all attacks as well. Also put in a fatigue wall at a certain SP/HR rate (i.e. at 10K/hr you hit 90% loss until the next hour). If they do this the problem should fix itself.


You're late. It's already been fixed.
#95 Sep 27 2010 at 7:33 AM Rating: Decent
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77 posts
i think for players who arnt sure about if they exploited or not. a quick explanation should be put in this thread.

if you sad there in a Guild leve and healed someone who did not want to be healed for 30 minutes many many many times. obviously not attempting to finish the leve. you exploited the bug. exploiting BUGS in MMOs has always been a bannable offense.

that being said

i think the reason they are giving you a get out of jail free card by allowing people to own up to it is because. it makes sense people would do this. its kinda like skilling up augmentation magic in FFXI. I would just repeatedly cast protect or whatever, take it off, cast again. same concept, but not a bug, a system in ffxi. Now mind you, this game is different, it was not intended, it was a bug (in beta you got no xp for healing, they added it haphazardly and this happened).

If they just started banning people i would be kinda iffy, bug they are giving you a chance to say "i used this method" get your level reduced probably only down to 10 or something, (and even level 1...its easy to get to 10 really if you got a good physical level). Its not that bad.
If your up in arms about this, you probably exploited the bug and are upset your going to lose your levels haha
#96 Sep 27 2010 at 7:35 AM Rating: Default
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95 posts
orenji13 wrote:
i think for players who arnt sure about if they exploited or not. a quick explanation should be put in this thread.

if you sad there in a Guild leve and healed someone who did not want to be healed for 30 minutes many many many times. obviously not attempting to finish the leve. you exploited the bug. exploiting BUGS in MMOs has always been a bannable offense.

that being said

i think the reason they are giving you a get out of jail free card by allowing people to own up to it is because. it makes sense people would do this. its kinda like skilling up augmentation magic in FFXI. I would just repeatedly cast protect or whatever, take it off, cast again. same concept, but not a bug, a system in ffxi. Now mind you, this game is different, it was not intended, it was a bug (in beta you got no xp for healing, they added it haphazardly and this happened).

If they just started banning people i would be kinda iffy, bug they are giving you a chance to say "i used this method" get your level reduced probably only down to 10 or something, (and even level 1...its easy to get to 10 really if you got a good physical level). Its not that bad.
If your up in arms about this, you probably exploited the bug and are upset your going to lose your levels haha



Smart man or woman. People who cry wolf are usually the wolves themselves.
#97 Sep 27 2010 at 7:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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2,120 posts
Tenkuro wrote:
TwistedOwl wrote:
Takes 18,000 class exp for rank20... x2 is 36,000...now also looking at their character page you see that it takes 110000exp for physical27.

Rank & Physical are on 2 different scales...can't just see a character favoring THM/CON and assume they're cheating...maybe they did exploit some...but I don't like the assumption that they're an obvious exploiter

Mainly because my only fighting classes are CON/THM = P
Don't want people thinking that of me

I think that particular character "could be" better explained if I watched them 24/7...I think it's possible to slaughter easy blue mobs for weak physical exp, but "ok" skillups. She may have done that...

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 8:42am by TwistedOwl



Here, easier for you to understand:

My guildmate who didn't exploit:

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/rc/character/status?cicuid=1806853

See how she needs 82000 total physical exp to get to physical level 23?
See how she's level 20 conjurer and doesn't have a THM that's 19?

110,000 - 82,000 = 28,000 (so the dude basically only gained less than 28,000 physical exp while getting THM to 19. Don't forget all his other classes)

In case you didn't know:

It's Total Gained EXP / Total EXP

You don't reset back to 0 everytime you level, it accumulates:

http://www.eorzeapedia.com/wiki/en/Experience_Points/Chart



No, it resets to zero each level
____________________________

#98 Sep 27 2010 at 7:42 AM Rating: Decent
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95 posts
wow, you're right.

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 9:44am by Tenkuro
#99 Sep 27 2010 at 8:42 AM Rating: Decent
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1,416 posts
Good to see they didn't wait too long to take care of an obvious exploit.


Edited, Sep 27th 2010 12:36pm by Teneleven
____________________________

#100 Sep 27 2010 at 8:51 AM Rating: Default
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59 posts
i guess i feel good about the fact the game is buggy still and laggy but the managed to detect this flaw. so i feel when they do the first few updates something positive will come out of it and the this mmo can be saved still. and to the cheaters....haha hope you burn in ****.
#101 Sep 27 2010 at 10:06 AM Rating: Decent
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247 posts
So let me get this straight...

1. Thaums heal in groups.
2. Healing while under Guardian Favor gave more skill points than intended.
3. If a Thaum did his job in a group while under GF, he got more skill points than intended.

The only way NOT to exploit this would be...

A. Do not heal in groups, or
B. Do not do leves

Do I have it just about covered?

Does either solution A or B sound even remotely plausible?

So if you are a player that is trying to level Thaum and you did your job and healed your group during leves, you are now an exploiter that will be banned if you do not realize you are an exploiter and turn yourself in?

Man, I am so glad I decided not to buy this game after playing in beta. They fixed none of the problems everyone was complaining about, and they couldn't even fix an obvious "exploit" like this.

Is it really too much to ask for them to test skill point gains for healing while under GF?

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