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#1 Sep 27 2010 at 5:53 AM Rating: Default
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well SE has given windower xiv the shut down. this is bull crap, they need to get there heads out of the rumps and fix the dam game so ppl dont need windower in the first place. thinking of starting a partition to se to get them to fix it. though they probly wont lission.

any thoughts?
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#2 Sep 27 2010 at 5:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm slightly confused as to why XIV needs a windower program. Windowed and Fullscreen mode at 1080 (ninja edit -- forgot alt-tab crash errors) seem to work for me. Is it a higher resolution issue?

And dare I say... It's an unfair advantage for PC users against PS3 play... Oh... nevermind.

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 8:43am by OneFromSilverLight
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#3 Sep 27 2010 at 5:55 AM Rating: Decent
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didnt the guy's site say he's planning to implement a DX9/10 based windower? Keep an eye out for that imo. If not, start looking for other options.
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#4 Sep 27 2010 at 5:56 AM Rating: Decent
Not sure the need for windower on XIV, I can select my game to run windowed from the config. unless I am missing something else?

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 8:01am by Swagtronica
#5 Sep 27 2010 at 5:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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their, ****, people, petition, probably, listen.

Just saying =)
#6 Sep 27 2010 at 5:58 AM Rating: Good
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I need windower. I use an hdtv so my resolution is a bit funky. I need to use full screen to see all the game.
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#7 Sep 27 2010 at 5:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Prob due to the extra benifits the unoffical windower could possibly give. I know the unoffical ffxi windower blowed squares attempt outta the water.
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#8 Sep 27 2010 at 5:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Alt tab for full screen mode, yes please.
#9 Sep 27 2010 at 6:00 AM Rating: Default
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OneFromSilverLight wrote:
I'm slightly confused as to why XIV needs a windower program. Windowed and Fullscreen mode at 1080 seem to work for me. Is it a higher resolution issue?

And dare I say... It's an unfair advantage for PC users against PS3 play... Oh... nevermind.



I actually agree with not being able to alt+tab if it's a way to absolutely prevent 3rd party automation software. What I don't understand, is why is there even a windowed mode if you cant tab out of fullscreen.

I am no console fanboy by any means, but I do think there should not be any advantage over pc users over consoles. And I don't want any sort of automation or helping mods to be able to be employed (like a boss addon). I'm all for immersion and the last thing I want is to have to compete with mindless drones grinding off of a spreadsheet, with superhuman optimal play.

I do not want to eliminate hardcore players, but I would like the gap from hardcore to casual to be a little smaller, and to encourage immersion a little bit.
#10 Sep 27 2010 at 6:05 AM Rating: Default
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Have any of you ever used Windower? There are so many advantages you get from it. One of the nastiest ones being that you can see mob names on the "radar" so it made NM hunting extremely easy. I don't know about you, but I like that I can get lucky and have an NM spawn right next to me without having to worry about 30 other players on the map running straight to me because they saw the NM pop up on their radar.
#11 Sep 27 2010 at 6:05 AM Rating: Default
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160 posts
xthunderblazex wrote:
Alt tab for full screen mode, yes please.


thats the reason i use it mainly and i also use 2 screens. when running in windowed mode there is a unsightly border. windower gets rid of it and it feels more full screen though its windowed.

i like being able to alt tab and look up recipys or check the forums now and then and not have to log out and back in 5000 times just to craft one thing or do a mission (though it hasent happoned yet i expect it will soon)
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Server: Valefor
Character: Heya
Jobs: BLM 75, BLU 75, PLD 75 everything else at SJ cap
Retired: Febuary, 2008

WoW
Server: Ravencrest
Classs: Druid, Warlock, Mage, Death Knight 80
Retired: June, 2010

FF XIV
Server: Fabul
Name: Heya Yamamoto
Race: Lilifell Dunesfolk
Primary Class: conjur
#12 Sep 27 2010 at 6:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Swagtronica the Lion Hearted wrote:
Not sure the need for windower on XIV, I can select my game to run windowed from the config. unless I am missing something else?

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 8:01am by Swagtronica


I would prefer to play full screen as it's generally less rescourse intensive as a windowed game. The problem with fullscreen atm is not being able to alt-tab. So I play in windowed in case I need to check something online... like here. Maybe one day they'll fix it, but I won't hold my breath. I am glad they included a windowed mode from the get go, and so I can't really complain too much.
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#13 Sep 27 2010 at 6:14 AM Rating: Default
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Windower macros.....nuff said.
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#14 Sep 27 2010 at 6:18 AM Rating: Default
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xxAnikalxx wrote:
Windower macros.....nuff said.


Buy a G-Series keyboard (at least they were officially acknowleged as acceptible during a few contests in XI), you can get one for under 20 bucks brand new everyother weekend. You can write your own long macro strings etc...
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#15 Sep 27 2010 at 6:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Tenkuro wrote:
Have any of you ever used Windower? There are so many advantages you get from it. One of the nastiest ones being that you can see mob names on the "radar" so it made NM hunting extremely easy. I don't know about you, but I like that I can get lucky and have an NM spawn right next to me without having to worry about 30 other players on the map running straight to me because they saw the NM pop up on their radar.


So...you like it because you can cheat...got it Smiley: rolleyes
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#16 Sep 27 2010 at 6:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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PerrinofSylph wrote:
xxAnikalxx wrote:
Windower macros.....nuff said.


Buy a G-Series keyboard (at least they were officially acknowleged as acceptible during a few contests in XI), you can get one for under 20 bucks brand new everyother weekend. You can write your own long macro strings etc...


And you can use my app then Smiley: thumbsup
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#17 Sep 27 2010 at 6:21 AM Rating: Default
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Wint wrote:
Tenkuro wrote:
Have any of you ever used Windower? There are so many advantages you get from it. One of the nastiest ones being that you can see mob names on the "radar" so it made NM hunting extremely easy. I don't know about you, but I like that I can get lucky and have an NM spawn right next to me without having to worry about 30 other players on the map running straight to me because they saw the NM pop up on their radar.


So...you like it because you can cheat...got it Smiley: rolleyes



Did I say anywhere that I like it? Please read my post again. I said, "I like that I can get lucky and have an NM spawn right next to me without having to worry about 30 other players on the map running straight to me because they saw the NM pop up on their radar. (AKA WINDOWER)" How does that not mean that I'm against the use of windower?
#18 Sep 27 2010 at 6:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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#19 Sep 27 2010 at 6:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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geoncic wrote:
OneFromSilverLight wrote:
I'm slightly confused as to why XIV needs a windower program. Windowed and Fullscreen mode at 1080 seem to work for me. Is it a higher resolution issue?

And dare I say... It's an unfair advantage for PC users against PS3 play... Oh... nevermind.



I actually agree with not being able to alt+tab if it's a way to absolutely prevent 3rd party automation software. What I don't understand, is why is there even a windowed mode if you cant tab out of fullscreen.

I am no console fanboy by any means, but I do think there should not be any advantage over pc users over consoles. And I don't want any sort of automation or helping mods to be able to be employed (like a boss addon). I'm all for immersion and the last thing I want is to have to compete with mindless drones grinding off of a spreadsheet, with superhuman optimal play.

I do not want to eliminate hardcore players, but I would like the gap from hardcore to casual to be a little smaller, and to encourage immersion a little bit.


Ohhh ho ho ho. I love people who are as paranoid as Square Enix is when it comes to these matters. "RMT or Exploiters could use THIS! We must kill it before they get their hands on it!", so let's not have an auction house, let's not let PC users minimize the game (holy crap, what a HUGE advantage over PS3 users) and y'know what? Let's make it where no monsters give experience points and instead you get them through telepathy, people could exploit it any other way and at least this way Square Enix can read all our individual thoughts.

No but seriously, you can already play the game in windowed mode so having a ALT-TAB option isn't going to effect anything that's not already there. Also not wanting things like windower because people are worried some one might be better than them is quite juvenile. Do your own thing, don't worry if some one else wants to be a min-maxer and don't worry what they think of you.

To go on the record, I don't want anyone using exploits either, and I hate RMT just as much as the next guy, but some people really don't think things through and get overly paranoid and carried away.
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#20 Sep 27 2010 at 6:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
I just discovered you cannot rate down moderators.


+10
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#21 Sep 27 2010 at 7:11 AM Rating: Good
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Lack of alt-tab in fullscreen is a pain in the ***. Especially with a crafting system like this where you really need to go out on the web to get a grip on what material and sub material is needed for specific crafts.

I'm really confused about why they added windowed mode, but not pseudo fullscreen, which is windowed mode as well, it just makes the window cover the entire screen without any border frames.

Personally I want to run fullscreen with the possibility to alt-tab to the desktop whenever I feel like it. Running games in fullscreen will always yield the highest performance from your graphics card since it will have exclusive access and not sharing resources with any other applications.

However, until they fix so you can alt-tab from fullscreen, we are kind of forced to use "windower" applications since seeing that border in windowed mode is really annoying and distracts from the game experience.

So, until they add that I made a small "windower" application that only removes the borders from the window, and nothing more. If you want to use it, feel free to do so, I wont upload any executable anywhere however, knowing how paranoid people can be over virus, key loggers etc. But I'll provide the source and you can compile it yourself.

All you need is a C# compiler, which is available freely from Microsoft. Just download Microsoft Visual C# 2010 Express from http://www.microsoft.com/express/downloads/#2010-Visual-CS.

Required references:
System
System.Windows.Forms

 
using System; 
using System.Text; 
using System.Threading; 
using System.Diagnostics; 
using System.Runtime.InteropServices; 
using System.Windows.Forms; 
 
namespace PWin 
{ 
	class Program 
	{ 
		private const int GWL_STYLE = -16; 
		private const int GWL_EXSTYLE = -20; 
 
		private const int WS_CAPTION = 0x00c00000; 
 
		private const int WS_EX_CLIENTEDGE = 0x00000200; 
 
		private const uint SWP_NOSIZE = 0x0001; 
		private const uint SWP_NOMOVE = 0x0002; 
		private const uint SWP_NOZORDER = 0x0004; 
		private const uint SWP_NOREDRAW = 0x0008; 
		private const uint SWP_NOACTIVATE = 0x0010; 
		private const uint SWP_FRAMECHANGED = 0x0020; 
		private const uint SWP_SHOWWINDOW = 0x0040; 
		private const uint SWP_HIDEWINDOW = 0x0080; 
		private const uint SWP_NOCOPYBITS = 0x0100; 
		private const uint SWP_NOOWNERZORDER = 0x0200; 
		private const uint SWP_NOSENDCHANGING = 0x0400; 
 
		[DllImport("user32.dll", CharSet = CharSet.Auto)] 
		private static extern int GetWindowLong(IntPtr hWnd, int Index); 
 
		[DllImport("user32.dll", CharSet = CharSet.Auto)] 
		private static extern int SetWindowLong(IntPtr hWnd, int Index, int Value); 
 
		[DllImport("user32.dll", ExactSpelling = true)] 
		private static extern int SetWindowPos(IntPtr hWnd, IntPtr hWndInsertAfter, int X, int Y, int cx, int cy, uint uFlags); 
 
 
		static void Main(string[] args) 
		{ 
			if (args.Length < 3) 
			{ 
				MessageBox.Show("Invalid arguments.\n\nArgument usage: <Width> <Height> <Filename>\n\nExample:\n    1680 1050 \"D:\\SquareEnix\\FINAL FANTASY XIV\\ffxivboot.exe\""); 
				return; 
			} 
 
			Process process = new Process(); 
			try 
			{ 
				process.StartInfo.FileName = args[2]; 
				process.StartInfo.UseShellExecute = true; 
				process.Start(); 
			} 
			catch 
			{  
				MessageBox.Show("Unable to start process."); 
				return; 
			} 
 
			Thread.Sleep(1000); 
 
			while (true) 
			{ 
				Process[] processes = Process.GetProcessesByName("ffxivgame"); 
 
				foreach (Process p in processes) 
				{ 
					IntPtr pWinHandle = p.MainWindowHandle; 
 
					if (string.Compare(p.MainWindowTitle, "FINAL FANTASY XIV") == 0 ) 
					{ 
						int style = GetWindowLong(pWinHandle, GWL_STYLE); 
						int exStyle = GetWindowLong(pWinHandle, GWL_EXSTYLE); 
 
						style &= ~WS_CAPTION; 
						exStyle &= ~WS_EX_CLIENTEDGE; 
 
						SetWindowLong(pWinHandle, GWL_STYLE, style); 
						SetWindowLong(pWinHandle, GWL_EXSTYLE, exStyle); 
 
						SetWindowPos(pWinHandle, IntPtr.Zero, 0, 0, Convert.ToInt32(args[0]), Convert.ToInt32(args[1]), SWP_NOACTIVATE | SWP_NOZORDER | SWP_NOOWNERZORDER | SWP_FRAMECHANGED); 
						Thread.Sleep(100); 
						return; 
					} 
				} 
				Thread.Sleep(100); 
			} 
		} 
	} 
} 


Thats it.

Btw. As you can see it's so easy making a pseudo fullscreen that it's absolutely mind boggling that they didn't include the option to begin with. All that is needed is setting 2 bits when creating the window, no more, no less.
#22 Sep 27 2010 at 7:15 AM Rating: Good
  
using System;  
using System.Text;  
using System.Threading;  
using System.Diagnostics;  
using System.Runtime.InteropServices;  
using System.Windows.Forms;  
  
namespace PWin  
{  
	class Program  
	{  
		private const int GWL_STYLE = -16;  
		private const int GWL_EXSTYLE = -20;  
  
		private const int WS_CAPTION = 0x00c00000;  
  
		private const int WS_EX_CLIENTEDGE = 0x00000200;  
  
		private const uint SWP_NOSIZE = 0x0001;  
		private const uint SWP_NOMOVE = 0x0002;  
		private const uint SWP_NOZORDER = 0x0004;  
		private const uint SWP_NOREDRAW = 0x0008;  
		private const uint SWP_NOACTIVATE = 0x0010;  
		private const uint SWP_FRAMECHANGED = 0x0020;  
		private const uint SWP_SHOWWINDOW = 0x0040;  
		private const uint SWP_HIDEWINDOW = 0x0080;  
		private const uint SWP_NOCOPYBITS = 0x0100;  
		private const uint SWP_NOOWNERZORDER = 0x0200;  
		private const uint SWP_NOSENDCHANGING = 0x0400;  
  
		[DllImport("user32.dll", CharSet = CharSet.Auto)]  
		private static extern int GetWindowLong(IntPtr hWnd, int Index);  
  
		[DllImport("user32.dll", CharSet = CharSet.Auto)]  
		private static extern int SetWindowLong(IntPtr hWnd, int Index, int Value);  
  
		[DllImport("user32.dll", ExactSpelling = true)]  
		private static extern int SetWindowPos(IntPtr hWnd, IntPtr hWndInsertAfter, int X, int Y, int cx, int cy, uint uFlags);  
  
  
		static void Main(string[] args)  
		{  
			if (args.Length < 3)  
			{  
				MessageBox.Show("Invalid arguments.\n\nArgument usage: <Width> <Height> <Filename>\n\nExample:\n    1680 1050 \"D:\\SquareEnix\\FINAL FANTASY XIV\\ffxivboot.exe\"");  
				return;  
			}  
  
			Process process = new Process();  
			try  
			{  
				process.StartInfo.FileName = args[2];  
				process.StartInfo.UseShellExecute = true;  
				process.Start();  
			}  
			catch  
			{   
				MessageBox.Show("Unable to start process.");  
				return;  
			}  
  
			Thread.Sleep(1000);  
  
			while (true)  
			{  
				Process[] processes = Process.GetProcessesByName("ffxivgame");  
  
				foreach (Process p in processes)  
				{  
					IntPtr pWinHandle = p.MainWindowHandle;  
  
					if (string.Compare(p.MainWindowTitle, "FINAL FANTASY XIV") == 0 )  
					{  
						int style = GetWindowLong(pWinHandle, GWL_STYLE);  
						int exStyle = GetWindowLong(pWinHandle, GWL_EXSTYLE);  
  
						style &= ~WS_CAPTION;  
						exStyle &= ~WS_EX_CLIENTEDGE;  
  
						SetWindowLong(pWinHandle, GWL_STYLE, style);  
						SetWindowLong(pWinHandle, GWL_EXSTYLE, exStyle);  
  
						SetWindowPos(pWinHandle, IntPtr.Zero, 0, 0, Convert.ToInt32(args[0]), Convert.ToInt32(args[1]), SWP_NOACTIVATE | SWP_NOZORDER | SWP_NOOWNERZORDER | SWP_FRAMECHANGED);  
						Thread.Sleep(100);  
						return;  
					}  
				}  
				Thread.Sleep(100);  
			}  
		}  
	}  
}  


Thanks for posting that, the lack of this has been driving me crazy since closed beta. I was shying away from using the windower in retail, since it has such a bad rap with SE from XI.
#23 Sep 27 2010 at 7:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wint wrote:
Tenkuro wrote:
Have any of you ever used Windower? There are so many advantages you get from it. One of the nastiest ones being that you can see mob names on the "radar" so it made NM hunting extremely easy. I don't know about you, but I like that I can get lucky and have an NM spawn right next to me without having to worry about 30 other players on the map running straight to me because they saw the NM pop up on their radar.


So...you like it because you can cheat...got it Smiley: rolleyes


Don't listen to Tenkuro, Wint. Windower itself didn't have cheating plugins. It most certainly didn't allow you to "see" mobs names on your radar. That was a totally seperate third party program and developer. You could argue the ability to see others TP, and make easier macros was cheating, but that was the extent of it.
All the actual cheat stuff I ever read about was done independently of windower and stuff like claimbots/fishing bots came out before there ever was Windower.
It sounds like Tenkuro never even used Windower if he thinks it had special radars and whatever else people used to cheat.

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 9:26am by Restyoneck
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#24Tenkuro, Posted: Sep 27 2010 at 7:30 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I played Final Fantasy XI about 3 years ago. My friend downloaded Windower to test it out and right away, the first thing he noticed, was the little mini map that showed the mob names. When an NM popped up, the name popped up on the mini-map also. It also gave him an advantage over normal players who knew nothing about it based on what you confirmed, seeing others TP, making macros a lot longer and easier. He use to be able to time his skill chains by skilling right before his teammates because he saw their TP. If you don't call any of that cheating, than you need to get your conscience checked.
#25 Sep 27 2010 at 7:31 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
thinking of starting a partition to se to get them to fix it.


If you put a partition between you and SE, they wont be able to see you. What will that achieve?
#26 Sep 27 2010 at 7:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Windower has it's uses... I hate it but had to use it with XI or give up my dual display. XI didn;t support my two monitors and without windower I couldn't play it... I had no other plugins for it though.

With XIV I haven't used it... the only thing it would solve for me would be the alt/tab'ing. I would much rather have the game in full screen, but I can survive with the irritating bars until it gets fixed.
#27 Sep 27 2010 at 8:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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geoncic wrote:
OneFromSilverLight wrote:
I'm slightly confused as to why XIV needs a windower program. Windowed and Fullscreen mode at 1080 seem to work for me. Is it a higher resolution issue?

And dare I say... It's an unfair advantage for PC users against PS3 play... Oh... nevermind.



I actually agree with not being able to alt+tab if it's a way to absolutely prevent 3rd party automation software. What I don't understand, is why is there even a windowed mode if you cant tab out of fullscreen.


I would think the existence of windowed mode would make it painfully obvious that the game crashing when you alt-tab from fullscreen could not possibly be by design...

It's there because the programmers at SE are a bunch of incompetents who have no idea how to deal with losing the rendering context.
#28 Sep 27 2010 at 8:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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394 posts
BastokFL wrote:
I would think the existence of windowed mode would make it painfully obvious that the game crashing when you alt-tab from fullscreen could not possibly be by design...

It's there because the programmers at SE are a bunch of incompetents who have no idea how to deal with losing the rendering context.


Or because XIV is just a modified version of the XI engine. Which, well... yeah I guess you have a point there.
#29 Sep 28 2010 at 10:53 AM Rating: Good
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Tenkuro wrote:
Restyoneck wrote:
Wint wrote:
Tenkuro wrote:
Have any of you ever used Windower? There are so many advantages you get from it. One of the nastiest ones being that you can see mob names on the "radar" so it made NM hunting extremely easy. I don't know about you, but I like that I can get lucky and have an NM spawn right next to me without having to worry about 30 other players on the map running straight to me because they saw the NM pop up on their radar.


So...you like it because you can cheat...got it Smiley: rolleyes


Don't listen to Tenkuro, Wint. Windower itself didn't have cheating plugins. It most certainly didn't allow you to "see" mobs names on your radar. That was a totally seperate third party program and developer. You could argue the ability to see others TP, and make easier macros was cheating, but that was the extent of it.
All the actual cheat stuff I ever read about was done independently of windower and stuff like claimbots/fishing bots came out before there ever was Windower.
It sounds like Tenkuro never even used Windower if he thinks it had special radars and whatever else people used to cheat.

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 9:26am by Restyoneck


I played Final Fantasy XI about 3 years ago. My friend downloaded Windower to test it out and right away, the first thing he noticed, was the little mini map that showed the mob names. When an NM popped up, the name popped up on the mini-map also. It also gave him an advantage over normal players who knew nothing about it based on what you confirmed, seeing others TP, making macros a lot longer and easier. He use to be able to time his skill chains by skilling right before his teammates because he saw their TP. If you don't call any of that cheating, than you need to get your conscience checked.


Your "friend" didn't just download Windower then. I'm not going to do all the legwork for you, so you can check yourself. Nowhere on the Windower site will you find a plug-in for radars like you describe. There is an application that does that, but it's neither developed or linked or distributed by the Windower team, nor does it plug into or use WIndower in any way. I'm not familiar with it, so I don't recall it's name, but I'm sure you can use Google and find out. And while I'll agree about your TP point being technically against the rules, remember all it did was give you an idea of where everyone was at TP-wise. It didn't give anyone any special advantage over anyone. You still needed to call out your TP as obviously not everyone had Windower, and you still had to work with the rest of the group to make the SC happen. As far as the macro thing, that's really a dumb arguement, as you could do the same thing without Windower, you just had to split it into two macros. It did ****-all but save you a second keystroke.
I really don't think you ever even used or saw Windower, you talk like someone that "heard" about it in some XI debate post.
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"Don't take it personally man, white knights would eat a can of **** if the label said SE on it. If anyone dared mention that it was not a good product, they'd just argue if someone can't appreciate the subtle nuances in the ****, they should just go back to eating lolrealfood, cuz the devs prolly know more about canning food than they do."
#30 Sep 28 2010 at 11:08 AM Rating: Decent
I run windowed mode at full screen resolution. Tabbing out is a non-issue.

SE sent the first Windower developers a C&D request. Expect that future developers will receive the same treatment. Learn to live with it. The vast majority of people who used the windower for XI used the "buggy alt-tab" as an excuse. They kept it for the plugins. PS3 players won't be able to benefit from those plugins even if they wanted to.

There's nothing the XIV windower offered that you can't live without. And with SE lobbing C&D orders within a month of their public release, you can expect that finding a windower application that will be maintained and preserved for any length of time is likely to be tricky in the future.
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