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More exploits to comeFollow

#1 Sep 27 2010 at 8:12 AM Rating: Default
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So allegedly curing your party members while under influence of SP-buff is officially verboten. I guess they should get by themselves. Seriously, being a THM I am afraid to invite people to leech off my leves because it surely looks suspicious: a) why did I go through broken system to invite somebody in the first place? and b) why did I need to group if I could solo this?

But even imagining they miraculously solve problems with healing being viewed as an exploit there are more:
Most obvious: using a low damage weapon. This is the way people had been skilluping in FFXI for years. I guess people who made FF XIV have never heard from FF XI players.

Letting mobs to heal up - in case low damage is verboten too. I.e. don't silence WHM-types, if they can absorb - let them at it etc.

Healing kiting - in FFXI you had been kiting to kill but in the new and improved FF XIV you will be kiting to save lives! Mobs seem to be able to regain HP while chasing player around. Let them do it!

There are more, in FFXI there were special ways to quickly level particular skills due to particular weapon/job/monster combo (e.g. a BLM could sleep a crab near the Cloister of Storms and level the Staff skill doing 0 damage with a signet staff).

And here is a solution - don't reward time spent doing job, reward the result. No matter how many cases you investigate people will go long ways to spend most time for the least amount of result. If you want us to kill mobs in leves - reward us with SP for *killing* them, not for doing skills. If you don't reward us - we will keep min/maxing, sorry.

#2 Sep 27 2010 at 8:17 AM Rating: Good
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gathering a group of 30 conjurers and letting a mob just attack you while everyone aoe heals themselves is not how the system was intended to be used; therefore, in my mind, it is a exploit, and SE is handling it correctly. LEt the player fess up so they can react according to plan. Otherwise, the player will suffer a suspension.
#3 Sep 27 2010 at 8:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Nylianna, what about gathering a group of 29 gladiators and one conjurer?
#4 Sep 27 2010 at 8:28 AM Rating: Good
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do you think that is how SE intended the game to be played? I don't.
#5 Sep 27 2010 at 8:31 AM Rating: Good
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The healing exploit was not in the spirit of how players were meant to progress their characer and anyone who took advantage of it knows it.
#6 Sep 27 2010 at 8:34 AM Rating: Excellent
HachiLihachi wrote:
So allegedly curing your party members while under influence of SP-buff is officially verboten. I guess they should get by themselves. Seriously, being a THM I am afraid to invite people to leech off my leves because it surely looks suspicious: a) why did I go through broken system to invite somebody in the first place? and b) why did I need to group if I could solo this?


Healing is not an exploit. Abusing the system to gain abnormal amounts of experience by healing 10 party members while they hold a low level mob not killing it for 30 minutes is an exploit. Just a slight difference there anyone could have missed that so i spelled it out for you.

HachiLihachi wrote:
But even imagining they miraculously solve problems with healing being viewed as an exploit there are more:
Most obvious: using a low damage weapon. This is the way people had been skilluping in FFXI for years. I guess people who made FF XIV have never heard from FF XI players.

Letting mobs to heal up - in case low damage is verboten too. I.e. don't silence WHM-types, if they can absorb - let them at it etc.

Healing kiting - in FFXI you had been kiting to kill but in the new and improved FF XIV you will be kiting to save lives! Mobs seem to be able to regain HP while chasing player around. Let them do it!


Wow, seriously. You missed that too or are you just ignorant?

1. You don't get experience if you dont kill the mob.
2. There is an experience cap you can get of every mob depending on it's level relative to yours.
3. If the mob runs away and heals the experience you gained so far is reset.

HachiLihachi wrote:
There are more, in FFXI there were special ways to quickly level particular skills due to particular weapon/job/monster combo (e.g. a BLM could sleep a crab near the Cloister of Storms and level the Staff skill doing 0 damage with a signet staff).


Actually, doing 0 damage does not give skillups in FFXI. But you knew that already, right?

HachiLihachi wrote:
And here is a solution - don't reward time spent doing job, reward the result. No matter how many cases you investigate people will go long ways to spend most time for the least amount of result. If you want us to kill mobs in leves - reward us with SP for *killing* them, not for doing skills. If you don't reward us - we will keep min/maxing, sorry.


You already get the reward for *killing* not for fighting. The problem was that in leves there is no cap like in a normal fight so people did not kill the mob until they raked in insane amounts of SP. After 29 minutes they killed it just before leve timer ran out.

So, please remind me. What was this post about other than you whining about something you did not even take the time to research or understand?

KJ
~poking you with a pointy stick for skill up~

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 4:43pm by KindjalFerrer
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#7 Sep 27 2010 at 8:40 AM Rating: Decent
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It was an oversight on square's behalf. There will be more too come. But I can't see them putting a ban stick on this. It'll be more of "exploit us once, shame on us. Exploit us twice shame on you" BAM! Ban stick.

I'm thinking for any sort of punishment they should suspend them for a week. Would set then back and allow others to catch up. I'm not condoming this, just saying it's better than a ban . Lol would also make people not talk so publicly about an exploit they have found.

As soon as it hits the web you know a maintenance is imminent!
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#8 Sep 27 2010 at 8:40 AM Rating: Good
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Actually, doing 0 damage does not give skillups in FFXI. But you knew that already, right?


In all fairness, it used to.

These players were intentionally exploit a way to get xp super fast and avoid surplus at the same time. SE has every right to roll them back.

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 9:41am by Rysa
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#9 Sep 27 2010 at 8:47 AM Rating: Decent
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KindjalFerrer, Tarutaru Murder Suspect wrote:


HachiLihachi wrote:
There are more, in FFXI there were special ways to quickly level particular skills due to particular weapon/job/monster combo (e.g. a BLM could sleep a crab near the Cloister of Storms and level the Staff skill doing 0 damage with a signet staff).


Actually, doing 0 damage does not give skillups in FFXI. But you knew that already, right?


As someone mentioned, at one point they did. It's particularly interesting though that the OP would bring that up, considering why they had to change it. It's the prime FFXI example of a few people (in this case I believe it was BLMs in sea) exploiting a mechanic and ultimately making it worse for everyone in the long run.
#10 Sep 27 2010 at 9:06 AM Rating: Default
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KindjalFerrer, Tarutaru Murder Suspect wrote:

Healing is not an exploit. Abusing the system to gain abnormal amounts of experience by healing 10 party members while they hold a low level mob not killing it for 30 minutes is an exploit. Just a slight difference there anyone could have missed that so i spelled it out for you.

What about holding a high level mob? Why killing for 30 minutes is an exploit? I am given 30 minutes time, my SP-buff costs a lot, I want to make most of it.
You don't understand that a broken game system cannot be fixed by administrative measures, do you?

Quote:

Wow, seriously. You missed that too or are you just ignorant?

1. You don't get experience if you dont kill the mob.
2. There is an experience cap you can get of every mob depending on it's level relative to yours.
3. If the mob runs away and heals the experience you gained so far is reset.

Wow, seriously, did not your mother feed when you were a baby you or you are just hangover?
1. And what?
2. Even if there is - I am getting ~100ish of mobs 10 levels below me so the cap seems rather high, I imagine in 1000s range for leve mobs.
3. Chasing a player is by definition not running away.

Quote:

Actually, doing 0 damage does not give skillups in FFXI. But you knew that already, right?

Nopes, I've gained 50 levels of staff in 3 hours the very same method I described. If they changed this then good for them, do skillup parties now bring ridils and krakens too?

Quote:

You already get the reward for *killing* not for fighting. The problem was that in leves there is no cap like in a normal fight so people did not kill the mob until they raked in insane amounts of SP. After 29 minutes they killed it just before leve timer ran out.

You don't get it, that's fine.


Edited, Sep 27th 2010 11:07am by HachiLihachi
#11 Sep 27 2010 at 9:09 AM Rating: Decent
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HachiLihachi wrote:

You don't get it, that's fine.


Edited, Sep 27th 2010 11:07am by HachiLihachi


You obviously don't get it, and you are probably **** hurt that you got caught exploiting. It is SE's game, and they have every right to penalize people for a deliberate exploit of the game.
#12 Sep 27 2010 at 9:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Lol, says the guilty.

Curing and buffing while fighting mobs is right.

Curing and buffing while holding a mob for the bonus is wrong.
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#13 Sep 27 2010 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
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As someone mentioned, at one point they did. It's particularly interesting though that the OP would bring that up, considering why they had to change it. It's the prime FFXI example of a few people (in this case I believe it was BLMs in sea) exploiting a mechanic and ultimately making it worse for everyone in the long run.


No it wasn't just some BLMs. It was every one who knew about it. You could go attack dolphins in sea and just leave your character skilling up there...

I'm not sure SE should punish the players for this. I think there is a difference between Duping alexandrite (for instance) in FFXI and healing people in this game for xp. FFXI was years in when the majority of these exploits were happening. Usually it was a result of some server maint or a patch. People took advantage of that. FFXI players had a responsibility to tell SE about something that just happen to be broken.

With the amount of problems this game has, I'm not sure its up to the players to tell SE anything. I paid 80$ for leves and interesting class system and scenery, basically I payed for 50% of a game. I wouldn't help SE with anything, they have some much **** to worry about with this game I think they should get into implementing a ******* auto sort system for our inventorys.

So far I paid extra money then I would usually for an unfinished game (because the game is unfinished) and then am expected to help SE find problems that they deem to be exploits. While at the same time they dont listen to us about the things they need to add things that are basic in any other game. So my question to you is who is being exploited by who in this relationship?
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#14 Sep 27 2010 at 9:18 AM Rating: Decent
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We have confirmed an issue where players may obtain large amount of skill points by casting enhancing or healing magic to the party member. The issue is currently being addressed.

Also we would like to remind that repeating this method intentionally is considered as fraudulent behavior. With players who have abused this method, an additional investigation shall be made and their account may receive penalty including account suspension in case we determine it to be malignant. The investigation is expected to take a while until the completion. For those of you who have happened to abuse this method without knowing it to be fraudulent, please report yourself through GM Call. By reporting yourself in, the amount of skill point and skill rank you have gained will be corrected by GM and the penalty to your account will be exempted.

For details on account penalty and prohibited activities, please refer to the following pages.
Account Penalty Policy
http://support.na.sq...&la=1&kid=56910
Prohibited Activities in Final Fantasy XIV
http://support.na.sq...&la=1&kid=56909


nice one SE
#15 Sep 27 2010 at 9:23 AM Rating: Decent
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To people saying "this is not in spirit", I don't disagree with you. But "spirit" is too ephemeral to enforce in an MMO. It's a game that has rules, unlike a table or a sport game rules in an MMO are absolute, nobody can do anything the developers don't allow. If developers allow something than from what I know it's the rules. You can guess a bug sometimes, like Salvage in FFXI but I'd never guessed that skillups through healing were not intended. How are healers supposed to level?

Speaking of spirit. Do you really think it was in spirit of FFXI for a summoner to stand outside of city gates for for days summoning and dismissing pets? Was it in spirit of FFXI to face away from an engaged mob to get evasion skillups? This is minor stuff though, consider this: FFXI Ninja tanks were not in spirit of the job too. Imagine FFXIV developers have seen a ninja tank for the first time? "OMG?! TEH EXPLOIT - UR NOT SUPPOSED TO BE NOT GETTING HIT!!!1!" all worlds emergency maintenance in 1,2,3... all cheater ninjas to report to GMs no later than 48 hours.

For that matter - is anything different from rushing a mob without any strategy "in spirit" of any fantasy rpg? Look at the cut scenes - NPCs seem to charge their opponents earnestly and without any consideration for their own well-being and the battle's outcome, they don't even buff themselves up. This spirit talk is a slippery slope.
#16 Sep 27 2010 at 9:24 AM Rating: Decent
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So how much you wanna bet that this Maintenance today is for nerfing the bonus? lololol
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#17 Sep 27 2010 at 9:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Nylianna wrote:
HachiLihachi wrote:

You don't get it, that's fine.


Edited, Sep 27th 2010 11:07am by HachiLihachi


You obviously don't get it, and you are probably **** hurt that you got caught exploiting. It is SE's game, and they have every right to penalize people for a deliberate exploit of the game.


My character name is Hachi Lihachi on Istory server, go check Lodestone and put a foot in your mouth.

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 11:28am by HachiLihachi
#18 Sep 27 2010 at 9:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Most people just forgot that the recent exploit is an exploit because it bypass the fatigue system. Rank 29? Hello? Fatigue? You wouldn't be able to gain SP after hitting approximately rank 20, because it's only like 5 days.
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#19 Sep 27 2010 at 9:32 AM Rating: Decent
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This thread is adorable.
#20 Sep 27 2010 at 9:34 AM Rating: Decent
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HachiLihachi wrote:
Nylianna wrote:
HachiLihachi wrote:

You don't get it, that's fine.


Edited, Sep 27th 2010 11:07am by HachiLihachi


You obviously don't get it, and you are probably **** hurt that you got caught exploiting. It is SE's game, and they have every right to penalize people for a deliberate exploit of the game.


My character name is Hachi Lihachi on Istory server, go check Lodestone and put a foot in your mouth.

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 11:28am by HachiLihachi


You need to put a foot in your mouth, and realize this was a deliberate exploit by players seeking to lvl up quickly and nullifying the fatigue system. I don't care if your toon didn't exploit; I don't really care to check either. SE isn't saying that you healing party members while completely a leve is wrong. They are saying, however, that deliberately forming a big party and waiting until the final minute of the leve to complete while gain surplus exp is a exploit to the game. IT was not intended, and the SE has every right to correct it, and punish the few players that severely misused it. I'm not talking about the players that may have experienced the exploit on accident, but any deliberate action to "cheat" the system is going to face consequences.
#21 Sep 27 2010 at 9:36 AM Rating: Default
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Nylianna wrote:
I don't care if your toon didn't exploit


I see, WoW much? I don't think you can contribute anything sensible.
#22 Sep 27 2010 at 9:40 AM Rating: Default
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Is fatigue even relevant? Correct me if I am wrong but did not they say it's an XP cap, not even mentioning SP?
#23 Sep 27 2010 at 10:00 AM Rating: Default
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HachiLihachi wrote:

Wow, seriously, did not your mother feed when you were a baby you or you are just hangover?



This sentence is amazing. I mean lol.. what are you even TRYING to say here? Did your mother not give you food or were you a hangover? lol, what?

Oh man, I'm sure you're probably not a native English speaker. So I'm not making fun of that fact, but when you go around insulting people in another persons tongue, it just winds up sounding ridiculously funny.

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 12:01pm by runtheplacered
#24 Sep 27 2010 at 10:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Wow, seriously, did not your mother feed when you were a baby you or you are just hangover?


I cant believe I'm agreeing with this guy but yeah... He does have some one of a point, even if he doesn't really know what it is. How can we expected to have responsibility as players when SE doesn't have any sense of corporate responsibility? Respect is a two way street, a lot of people feel ripped off. What about SE's behavior with this game launch makes you feel loyal or helpful to them?
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#25 Sep 27 2010 at 10:25 AM Rating: Good
Being able to turn yourself in on the exploit to avoid punishment is more than enough respect on SE's part, IMO.

We've had enough history (those who've played FFXI) of players ******** the game for everyone else through the use of claim/bot tools and exploits. Giving people the chance to fess up and avoid serious repercussion is a kind gesture I would not have given people.

This wasn't a better way of killing monsters for experience, this was a clear exploit used to speed level your characters far beyond what you should have been able to. And SE is giving people an OUT to getting in trouble over it.

#26 Sep 27 2010 at 10:27 AM Rating: Decent
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runtheplacered wrote:
HachiLihachi wrote:

Wow, seriously, did not your mother feed when you were a baby you or you are just hangover?



This sentence is amazing. I mean lol.. what are you even TRYING to say here? Did your mother not give you food or were you a hangover? lol, what?

Oh man, I'm sure you're probably not a native English speaker. So I'm not making fun of that fact, but when you go around insulting people in another persons tongue, it just winds up sounding ridiculously funny.

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 12:01pm by runtheplacered


Sorry, my goal was not to insult people but to discuss the actual issue. I see that Alla has not changed much under new management. Same trolls with their rate-up bots, same poo slinging instead of sensible arguments. Have fun, kids.
#27 Sep 27 2010 at 10:28 AM Rating: Decent
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In ffxi there was a moment in time where certain mobs in the starting areas were still giving exp to level 50+; some people started killing them to level up easily. These people were hit with an infraction, or a banstick. In both that case, and this case, it's painfully obvious that they should not have been doing that. They were exploiting the system.
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#28 Sep 27 2010 at 10:51 AM Rating: Default
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runtheplacered wrote:
HachiLihachi wrote:

Wow, seriously, did not your mother feed when you were a baby you or you are just hangover?



This sentence is amazing. I mean lol.. what are you even TRYING to say here? Did your mother not give you food or were you a hangover? lol, what?

Oh man, I'm sure you're probably not a native English speaker. So I'm not making fun of that fact, but when you go around insulting people in another persons tongue, it just winds up sounding ridiculously funny.

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 12:01pm by runtheplacered


http://www.somethingawful.com/flash/shmorky/babby.swf
#29 Sep 27 2010 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
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Being able to turn yourself in on the exploit to avoid punishment is more than enough respect on SE's part, IMO.


Dont kid yourself. You think SE did this out of respect? How would it look if SE had banned a bunch of people on the 5th day the game was out? Then consider the only reason the people were baned is because SE couldn't be bothered to test their game properly. They lose on both accounts. Funny having played ffxi I thought you would have been able to recognize that... Maybe you didn't play long enough to know how SE really operates.
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#30 Sep 27 2010 at 10:58 AM Rating: Default
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HachiLihachi wrote:
Nylianna wrote:
I don't care if your toon didn't exploit


I see, WoW much? I don't think you can contribute anything sensible.


Nope quit wow 6 months ago. Just renewed to try and get some WoW friends to join FFXIV with me. Blizz gave me 7 free days. It was perfect timing to try and pry some WoW players to the greener grass of FFXIV. ;)
#31 Sep 27 2010 at 12:27 PM Rating: Default
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I think the OP mustve used the exploit, he seems to defend it.
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#32 Sep 27 2010 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
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The skill up system is just stupidly flawed. The fact that you could level up much faster than everyone else by not killing the enemy (until you choose to) is ridiculous in the first place. This system doesn't promote killing of enemies, it promotes prolonging their life until you've had your fill. In this game, its better to have crappy DDs than to have good ones that can efficiently kill enemies. "Dude! Stop one shotting the enemies! Kill them in 20 hits instead! Geez, you gimp, get out of my party!"
#33 Sep 27 2010 at 12:49 PM Rating: Good
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TheLufia wrote:
The skill up system is just stupidly flawed. The fact that you could level up much faster than everyone else by not killing the enemy (until you choose to) is ridiculous in the first place. This system doesn't promote killing of enemies, it promotes prolonging their life until you've had your fill. In this game, its better to have crappy DDs than to have good ones that can efficiently kill enemies. "Dude! Stop one shotting the enemies! Kill them in 20 hits instead! Geez, you gimp, get out of my party!"
I think SE just took the skill system from FFXI and said "people love skilling weapons up so much, lets just make that the whole game". So now instead of killing mobs as quickly as you can to level up the quickest, the optimal way to play the game now is the optimal way to run a skillup party in FFXI. Spend as much time slowly whacking away at a mob as possible for the most skillups per fight.
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#34 Sep 27 2010 at 1:39 PM Rating: Good
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Why do people defending the "exploit" seem to think that regular or normal healing/buffing is the issue/exploit?

Partying up, doing a leve and killing the monsters was/is not the issue. Grouping up with all CON's or THM's, accepting a leve, getting your guardian aspect, engaging the leve mob(s) and letting them beat on your party for 30 minutes while you all spam buffs/cures is the problem. If this doesn't describe what you were/are doing then I don't think you really have anything to worry about. However, if this is EXACTLY what you were doing then don't insult my or anyone elses intelligence by playing dumb and saying you didn't know you were doing anything outside of the norm.

The only way any logical person would think to do that was if they KNEW they were about to do something that would give them an "abnormal" amount of skill points. I'd be willing to bet that if you knew meeting those requirements would net you "abnormal" amounts of skill points you knew **** well you were doing something that probably wasn't intended.

FFXIV User Agreement; 2.1 Cheating and Botting. You may not create or use any cheats, bots, automation software, hacks, mods or any other unauthorized software designed to modify the Game and gameplay.
    In addition, you may not take advantage of game system bugs and exploits during gameplay.






Edited, Sep 27th 2010 3:43pm by Sasorex
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