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Regression at it's finestFollow

#1 Sep 27 2010 at 11:01 AM Rating: Decent
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This is only my opinion. I played FFXI and I really loved it. There were a lot of things about FFXI that made it probably one of the greatest MMOs. The quests, the classes (COOLEST CLASSES EVER), the game-play, the parties!

FFXIV looks pretty. But I really don't play MMOs for the graphical candy. So far, this game is a regression of FFXI. SE had all this time to make this game really shine. It doesn't draw the player in immediately like FFXI. It seems like SE has made everything about this game way too complex. I'm going to give this one a rest until it matures a bit. I know that it is very early but the product in it's current state is an embarrassment as far as I'm concerned. But I have hope. I'm sure I'll come back to it. Good luck Square. And please Square... For the love of god...Make sure you bring back Ninja and Samurai!!!
#2 Sep 27 2010 at 11:04 AM Rating: Default
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New thread...for this?
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#3 Sep 27 2010 at 11:06 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
So far, this game is a regression of FFXI


You seem to have played during the XI launch in 2002.. How was it? I'd like to know!

Since you wouldn't be so foolish as to compare a new game to a year and a half old one, are you?
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#4 Sep 27 2010 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
So far, this game is a regression of FFXI


You seem to have played during the XI launch in 2002.. How was it? I'd like to know!

Since you wouldn't be so foolish as to compare a new game to a year and a half old one, are you?
Saw this coming a mile away. Is it really unreasonable to expect that after 8 years of developing FFXI that the developers shouldn't be starting with zero experience and making all the same core mistakes all over again with their second MMO?
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#5 Sep 27 2010 at 11:19 AM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
So far, this game is a regression of FFXI


You seem to have played during the XI launch in 2002.. How was it? I'd like to know!

Since you wouldn't be so foolish as to compare a new game to a year and a half old one, are you?
Saw this coming a mile away. Is it really unreasonable to expect that after 8 years of developing FFXI that the developers shouldn't be starting with zero experience and making all the same core mistakes all over again with their second MMO?


Well, yes. Isn't that the MO?
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#6 Sep 27 2010 at 11:19 AM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
So far, this game is a regression of FFXI


You seem to have played during the XI launch in 2002.. How was it? I'd like to know!

Since you wouldn't be so foolish as to compare a new game to a year and a half old one, are you?
Saw this coming a mile away. Is it really unreasonable to expect that after 8 years of developing FFXI that the developers shouldn't be starting with zero experience and making all the same core mistakes all over again with their second MMO?


You almost sound like you're serious >.>
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#7 Sep 27 2010 at 11:21 AM Rating: Decent
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While I can understand the "core mistakes" argument, I will say this. FFXI did not start off so hot, but what year did it release, and what year is it now? Not the soundest argument...but it's worth considering.
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#8 Sep 27 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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Ryneguy wrote:
While I can understand the "core mistakes" argument, I will say this. FFXI did not start off so hot, but what year did it release, and what year is it now? Not the soundest argument...but it's worth considering.


Which would be a valid arguement if all that was missing was the 8 years of additional storyline and endgame content...
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#9 Sep 27 2010 at 11:37 AM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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rikkuotaku wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
So far, this game is a regression of FFXI


You seem to have played during the XI launch in 2002.. How was it? I'd like to know!

Since you wouldn't be so foolish as to compare a new game to a year and a half old one, are you?
Saw this coming a mile away. Is it really unreasonable to expect that after 8 years of developing FFXI that the developers shouldn't be starting with zero experience and making all the same core mistakes all over again with their second MMO?


You almost sound like you're serious >.>
I am. They've been running FFXI for a long time now. They've done very basic things in FFXI right, for example, being able to move while looking in a bazaar, and being able to make a purchase no matter how far away the person is as long as the window is still open. For some reason, despite having done this in FFXI, they decided to remove that functionality in FFXIV, and unsurprisingly, nobody is happy with the change. Not saying that FFXI is perfect in any sense, by the way, but FFXIV was the perfect opportunity for the developers to take the good functionality of FFXI and give the bad aspects a complete overhaul, while redesigning the story from the ground up to keep the game unique and fresh. People have been giving negative feedback on the system for months on the beta forum, and the system remains unchanged.

Why is that?

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 12:39pm by bsphil
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#10 Sep 27 2010 at 11:45 AM Rating: Default
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I think what a lot of people are forgetting is that this game is completely written from the ground-up. So it's not that they took these things out, as you all say, it's just that they haven't gotten to putting it in yet. :)
#11 Sep 27 2010 at 11:47 AM Rating: Default
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Honestly people it's a new game all together, maybe they want to take it in a new direction. If people are going to keep throwing fits about why it's not more like FF XI then why aren't you playing FF XI?
#12 Sep 27 2010 at 11:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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No one has made the accusation that SE had at any time implemented these things and removed them just to spite us. It's that they've had 8+ years of experience with FFXI testing what systems do and don't work in an MMO (and several months of beta testing and player feedback on XIV) and still chose not to add them in the first place. These are things that should have been a part of XIV from the ground up (inventory sorting for instance).



Edited, Sep 27th 2010 1:52pm by SickleSageKiroh

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 1:52pm by SickleSageKiroh
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#13 Sep 27 2010 at 11:49 AM Rating: Default
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Saw this coming a mile away. Is it really unreasonable to expect that after 8 years of developing FFXI that the developers shouldn't be starting with zero experience and making all the same core mistakes all over again with their second MMO?


The only "mistake" this game has made so far is that it was released prematurely, just like XI. And that can't be blamed on the developers because they don't decide when the game goes live. Those who pay for the development do.

And as for that being a "mistake", we all know what happened when they did the same thing with XI. It makes all kind of sense that they would do it again, which is too bad for us. It also doesn't mean it will work again, but it is clearly a risk worth taking for them.

No game is good before it's ready, were you aware of that? XIV is not ready, we all know it for a fact. Release any game unfinished, and it will suck. It's not rocket science.

If you want to blame the developers, do it when the game is actually finished. Right now there is only one thing wrong with it.

Quote:
still chose not to add them in the first place.


Chose not to add them, or did not have the time to add them?

We'll know soon enough, when the version updates start rolling in.


Edited, Sep 27th 2010 5:51pm by Hyanmen
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#14 Sep 27 2010 at 11:50 AM Rating: Good
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NecoSino wrote:
I think what a lot of people are forgetting is that this game is completely written from the ground-up. So it's not that they took these things out, as you all say, it's just that they haven't gotten to putting it in yet. :)
But when they're programming the functionality in, they have to willfully decide how the game will respond in every situation. Rather than continue the same good ideas, they're actively choosing bad decisions.

Hyanmen wrote:
Chose not to add them, or did not have the time to add them?
In one day, one developer could probably plow through a third of the list of current bugs/bad features by picking off all of the easiest fixes. You're vastly overestimating how difficult it is to program some of these changes, especially for someone who has worked in the industry for decades.

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 12:55pm by bsphil
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#15 Sep 27 2010 at 11:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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NecoSino wrote:
I think what a lot of people are forgetting is that this game is completely written from the ground-up. So it's not that they took these things out, as you all say, it's just that they haven't gotten to putting it in yet. :)


When GM designs a new car, they remember what went well on the previous model and include it. I can see that reasoning used for the new features that didnt work out all that well, like retainers, crafting, and rank skillups. But for things that are essentially the same as FFXI but worse, like the chat functions, bazaar viewing, equip menu, they really should have known better.
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#16Kinbote, Posted: Sep 27 2010 at 11:55 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) That's a great idea. Now you have plenty of time to figure out the difference between "it's" and "its".
#17 Sep 27 2010 at 11:59 AM Rating: Default
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You're vastly overestimating how difficult it is to program some of these changes, especially for someone who has worked in the industry for decades.


Little code here, little code there... voila, a working AH!

Has it ever occurred to you why they are limiting us to 4 trade slots? 10 macro lines when there are infinite number of lines?

It has little to do with the coding process itself and all to do with a) getting the design right and/or b) servers, which are still... a work in progress! But good enough for the investors, apparently.

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 6:00pm by Hyanmen
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#18 Sep 27 2010 at 12:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hyanmen wrote:
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You're vastly overestimating how difficult it is to program some of these changes, especially for someone who has worked in the industry for decades.
Little code here, little code there... voila, a working AH!
Not talking about the AH, I'm talking about making things like ctrl+I opening inventory.

Hyanmen wrote:
Has it ever occurred to you why they are limiting us to 4 trade slots? 10 macro lines when there are infinite number of lines?

It has little to do with the coding process itself and all to do with a) getting the design right and/or b) servers, which are still... a work in progress! But good enough for the investors, apparently.
Because SE has a track record of making bad decisions? If they're doing this to get the design right, then they've failed because they got the design wrong. Servers? That doesn't even make any sense.
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#19 Sep 27 2010 at 12:07 PM Rating: Good
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Kinbote wrote:
Kimbaslice wrote:
I'm going to give this one a rest until it matures a bit.


That's a great idea. Now you have plenty of time to figure out the difference between "it's" and "its".


A.) You're an idiot. Quit trying to police what other people say because...

B.) He used "it's" entirely correctly in that instance. He was not saying it is, he was using the possessive form meaning something that belongs to "it" (it in this case referring to the game).
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#20 Sep 27 2010 at 12:23 PM Rating: Default
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This topic spoke of regression, but only made the arguments that FFXIV didn't do enough to draw you in immediately and is overly complex in comparison to FFXI.

*spawns in one of the least used areas of Bastok*
What do? Hmm...This ticket will get me 50 gil. I bet that'll buy me loads of gear! What the **** is a signet?

Yeah, FFXI draws you in real well...

The complex comment was a bit vague, though I think FFXIV is a lot less complex in some ways. Spells? No need to trek across nations to buy spells or buy overpriced versions on the AH. Crafting? I recall an NPC telling me ONE recipe in FFXI. Hey, at least I get one for every local levequest here.

Point being, these are the lamest arguments I've seen concerning the issue of regression, which I think is an actual valid argument if it were pointed in the right direction.

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 2:25pm by TheLufia
#21 Sep 27 2010 at 12:37 PM Rating: Default
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Not talking about the AH, I'm talking about making things like ctrl+I opening inventory.


You could add a million things like that to the list, existing or not. They can only do so much with their time, it is inevitable that it takes time to include all of these things, and that's something SE hasn't got.

It might be easy to do X, but multiply that by a thousand and suddenly you can't do it all in time after all. Especially when you know that they are understaffed because that's efficient. And SE is the master of efficient.

Quote:
Because SE has a track record of making bad decisions? If they're doing this to get the design right, then they've failed because they got the design wrong. Servers? That doesn't even make any sense.


Even with just 10 lines, the macro system doesn't even go off properly at times.

But really, if you think the 4 trade slot limit is a bad design decision and has nothing to do with the servers that tend to crash because of the most random things- I question you "working on the industry". You seem to think whatever you say is right just because of it.

Also a good reminder: When you do something different, you don't know how it ends up being. It is like swimming upstream. No one has paved the road for you, no one has figured out the mistakes and corrected them for you, you have no idea how the players will react, you are simply working off a vision that may or may not end up being as you envisioned-

If you are seriously criticizing them for not getting the design right from the start, you have too big expectations.

Or just false expectations. SE is not a copycat. If that's what you want- you're in luck, because that's what the industry has become- a playground for copycats. **** SE for trying something else and not getting it right the first time/not at all!

It is the reality that this will happen. You show me an innovation that wasn't a result of hundred failed innovations and I'll show you a flying pig.
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#22 Sep 27 2010 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Also a good reminder: When you do something different, you don't know how it ends up being. It is like swimming upstream. No one has paved the road for you, no one has figured out the mistakes and corrected them for you, you have no idea how the players will react, you are simply working off a vision that may or may not end up being as you envisioned-

If you are seriously criticizing them for not getting the design right from the start, you have too big expectations.

Or just false expectations. SE is not a copycat. If that's what you want- you're in luck, because that's what the industry has become- a playground for copycats. **** SE for trying something else and not getting it right the first time/not at all!

It is the reality that this will happen. You show me an innovation that wasn't a result of hundred failed innovations and I'll show you a flying pig.
From what I recall, the game was in closed alpha/beta for 5 months. That's an awful lot of time to be fixing some of these small issues while slowly picking away at larger problems.

Reinventing the wheel just because WoW (or <insert other MMO here>, or **** even FFXI) has it isn't FFXIV being cool and innovative, it's them taking the long road to come back to the same good idea.
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#23 Sep 27 2010 at 1:01 PM Rating: Default
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From what I recall, the game was in closed alpha/beta for 5 months. That's an awful lot of time to be fixing some of these small issues while slowly picking away at larger problems.

Reinventing the wheel just because WoW (or <insert other MMO here>, or **** even FFXI) has it isn't FFXIV being cool and innovative, it's them taking the long road to come back to the same good idea.


And they did fix a lot of things. And a lot need to be fixed still. I don't think there is any question that the game was rushed to the market, just like most MMO's before it, and probably after too. It simply needs more time to get where it should be. 5 months is nothing if they needed 5 years to finish the game but had to do it in 3-4 instead. Even if they call this "the retail version", it's no more than a paid Beta.

****, even Sundi said they wish they had few more months.

Also, they're not really reinventing the wheel here. Just trying out some new concepts and seeing if they work. Very normal SE behavior.

Some do. Some don't. That's just life for ya.

And yes, with some features they will end up to the same good idea from years ago. And with some others, it ends up being better than the old idea. You can't know for sure which is which before you try. I personally apologize to you that SE tried, and will tell them to never do so again. We need more copies of the same old game to this industry.

And yes, I am sad that the game was released in this condition.

But you know what's good about all this? You don't have to get the game before it's good enough for you (if ever). I certainly was considering waiting. If it wasn't for crafting side of the game, I would have. The battle mechanics give me a headache the way they are now.
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#24 Sep 27 2010 at 1:07 PM Rating: Good
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The thing I hate about this is that this game was actually advertised on many platforms, G4TV,MMO report, Magazines, Reviewers and podcast as the game that will push you to leave any other MMO. The game is beautiful, but too many issues, controls, say what you gonna say but an MMO was never meant to be played with a controller, NEVER......, And I feel SE is pushing the players a little too much, someone said on this forum somewhere that Japaneses player don't like open world MMO's, that they like their hand taken at the game,. For example, I cant jump a ledge 3 feet down to take a shortcut but a dammed rodent can climb it and attack you. Really?, A ninja class will have a nightmare on this game. People don't chat on this game, there is no sense of Community. I know there are live people on the otherside because there are players with silly names like "Tiolet paper" really, but people don't chat at all, I think is to hard to type a whole sentence and wait 4 seconds for the first word to appear, to kill 7 rodents and at the 8th you get the loot from the first one you killed,Hopefully this game will get better. and can someone please make a Hitler playing Final fantasy skid and post it on youtube?. It will be hilarious.
#25 Sep 27 2010 at 1:07 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Hyanmen wrote:
Also, they're not really reinventing the wheel here. Just trying out some new concepts and seeing if they work. Very normal SE behavior.

Some do. Some don't. That's just life for ya.

And yes, with some features they will end up to the same good idea from years ago. And with some others, it ends up being better than the old idea. You can't know for sure which is which before you try. I personally apologize to you that SE tried, and will tell them to never do so again. We need more copies of the same old game to this industry.
But they're still adamantly defending their new ideas. SE has never really been a company to test something new out, and then go back immediately and make improvements if the customer doesn't like the result. What they want the game to be isn't going to change much, that's just how they operate. The way you described it would be fantastic, if that's what was actually occurring. Still remains to be seen if that will actually happen.

For now, SE will still be the kind of developer that cares more about shutting down windower for allowing people to alt+tab out of the game in fullscreen rather than just allowing players to do it themselves.

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 2:08pm by bsphil
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#26 Sep 27 2010 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
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Ok I'll elaborate more on why this game is a regression of FFXI. Basically I would assume that when you have a fine-tuned masterpiece like FFXI, you would use it as a blueprint when making another MMO. You would take the great aspects of FFXI and implement those aspects into your latest work. An auction house on release would have been great just as an example. SE is trying to re-invent the wheel with this game. Doing that is not always a bad idea. But SE should have kept the same FFXI formula and continued to perfect it. The changes are way too complex. Mining for example. Why so serious? Just swing a **** pick axe and collect the ore. I like the game don't get me wrong. I just need to give it more time. SE had years to deliver us a great product "off the jump" based on a FFXI blueprint. I'll just wait for FFXIV to be fine tuned a lot more. Btw it does look pretty.
#27 Sep 27 2010 at 1:19 PM Rating: Decent
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But they're still adamantly defending their new ideas. SE has never really been a company to test something new out, and then go back immediately and make improvements if the customer doesn't like the result.


First of all, customer doesn't always know whether he likes something or not. We are sometimes against things that would make the game better and sometimes in favor of things that would make it worse.

But yes, SE can be adamant about some of their ideas. It is wasted resources if their idea doesn't work, so it makes sense to a point. I don't think we have seen a behavior like that yet however.

Even if they realized that marketplace is not sufficient by the time of Beta, it does not mean they can get AH ready until release. They were planning of implementing it either way by the looks of it, but the schedule is what it is.

I think they won't give up so easily though. Marketplace will see improvements before they give up. But other than that, we don't know just how adamant they are about some of these things. If they haven't changed them in a year, then we can talk about being adamant. In that time they have had plenty of time to fix anything if that's what they wanted.

Quote:
For now, SE will still be the kind of developer that cares more about shutting down windower for allowing people to alt+tab out of the game in fullscreen rather than just allowing players to do it themselves.


Something they never did? Bad analogy, man.
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#28 Sep 27 2010 at 1:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Actually, they did. He's talking about the XIV Windower, not the XI one.
#29 Sep 27 2010 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Actually, they did. He's talking about the XIV Windower, not the XI one.


I see.

While I think they did it because of the future potential the application has, they should have waited until they had implemented their own method of alt+tab.

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 7:26pm by Hyanmen
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#30 Sep 27 2010 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
For now, SE will still be the kind of developer that cares more about shutting down windower for allowing people to alt+tab out of the game in fullscreen rather than just allowing players to do it themselves.


Something they never did? Bad analogy, man.


Except they have done it.

EDIT: Bah, too slow.

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 3:24pm by RajiFarlander
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#31 Sep 27 2010 at 1:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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SickleSageKiroh wrote:
Kinbote wrote:
Kimbaslice wrote:
I'm going to give this one a rest until it matures a bit.


That's a great idea. Now you have plenty of time to figure out the difference between "it's" and "its".


A.) You're an idiot. Quit trying to police what other people say because...

B.) He used "it's" entirely correctly in that instance. He was not saying it is, he was using the possessive form meaning something that belongs to "it" (it in this case referring to the game).


Not that I agree with his tone, but the possessive form of it is "its", sans apostrophe. "It's" always means "it is", no exceptions. Not to derail the thread with grammar rules, but there you have it. Thread title is using the incorrect form.
#32 Sep 27 2010 at 1:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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RajiFarlander wrote:

Except they have done it.

EDIT: Bah, too slow.


Maybe, but yours came complete with link! I didn't have the heart to look at the site again to get it. I just didn't have the heart. SE has broken my spirit and interest in this game with their stupid *********

I keep coming back here hoping to see the threads popping up "They fixed this! They fixed that!" But it's the same **** over and over again, as it was seven years ago, as it will be seven years from now. This is not a company that learns from their past mistakes. ****, they don't even seem to learn from their past triumphs.

/sigh
#33 Sep 27 2010 at 1:36 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
This is not a company that learns from their past mistakes.


Last time they rushed an MMO to the market they ended up with 500k playerbase.

What exactly does SE need to learn from this "mistake"? :)
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#34 Sep 27 2010 at 1:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
This is not a company that learns from their past mistakes.


Last time they rushed an MMO to the market they ended up with 500k playerbase.

What exactly does SE need to learn from this "mistake"? :)


That was in 2002... the before-time.

Like or not, we're in a different age as far as MMOs go now.

People won't accept half-assery in their $50-$75 purchases for the most part.

Quote:
****, they don't even seem to learn from their past triumphs.


Rate up for being hilarious Smiley: laugh
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#35 Sep 27 2010 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
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Saw this coming a mile away. Is it really unreasonable to expect that after 8 years of developing FFXI that the developers shouldn't be starting with zero experience and making all the same core mistakes all over again with their second MMO?


That was my thoughts exactly after reading the first few posts lol.

Does it really take a year to realize you need an auction house or retainer search fucntion in a MMO that is so reliant on crafting?

Did they launch FFXI in Japan and say "Hmm I think we made a mistake launching this game with an auction house...Lets not make that mistake again!"

My issue with FFXIV isnt the game as a whole. I think it has great potential. But it's the absense of some of the most basic functions that should be mandatory in EVERY mmo that is game breaking for me. While FFXIV is a step forward in many aspects of this genre in comparison to FFXI...It is also a step WAY BACKWARDS in some of the most basic fundamentals of what make a great mmorpg.
#36 Sep 27 2010 at 2:25 PM Rating: Default
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SickleSageKiroh wrote:

A.) You're an idiot. Quit trying to police what other people say because...

B.) He used "it's" entirely correctly in that instance. He was not saying it is, he was using the possessive form meaning something that belongs to "it" (it in this case referring to the game).


Hilarious.
#37 Sep 27 2010 at 2:42 PM Rating: Default
24 posts
I'm surprised you and others haven't noticed the biggest problem FFXIV has, there are no wide open areas.

Almost every area in FFXI was a big open place to explore but in FFXIV every area is made up of small narrow paths.


I find this more unacceptable than the other things because it is almost certain the areas will never be changed.




Wish i could get a refund for this POS collectors edition.
#38 Sep 27 2010 at 2:57 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
Totalstupidity wrote:
I'm surprised you and others haven't noticed the biggest problem FFXIV has, there are no wide open areas.

Almost every area in FFXI was a big open place to explore but in FFXIV every area is made up of small narrow paths.
Only Gridania is like that.
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#39 Sep 27 2010 at 3:27 PM Rating: Decent
24 posts
Actually every area is like that. Look up some maps and explore.

Ul'dah seems slightly more open but it's really just an illusion, it's just like the others.


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#40 Sep 27 2010 at 3:28 PM Rating: Good
NecoSino wrote:
I think what a lot of people are forgetting is that this game is completely written from the ground-up. So it's not that they took these things out, as you all say, it's just that they haven't gotten to putting it in yet. :)



They wrote from the ground up to still crash if you alt+tab? :(
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#41 Sep 27 2010 at 3:35 PM Rating: Good
Sage
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1,675 posts
Totalstupidity wrote:
I'm surprised you and others haven't noticed the biggest problem FFXIV has, there are no wide open areas.

Almost every area in FFXI was a big open place to explore but in FFXIV every area is made up of small narrow paths.


I find this more unacceptable than the other things because it is almost certain the areas will never be changed.




Wish i could get a refund for this POS collectors edition.



Do you know the definition of narrow?
#42 Sep 27 2010 at 3:46 PM Rating: Good
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3,825 posts
KujaKoF wrote:
When GM designs a new car, they remember what went well on the previous model and include it. I can see that reasoning used for the new features that didnt work out all that well, like retainers, crafting, and rank skillups. But for things that are essentially the same as FFXI but worse, like the chat functions, bazaar viewing, equip menu, they really should have known better.


Yeah and then you end up with high dollar cars using base model steering wheels and interior pieces...

I'm just saying

(I agree with Chat and Inventory sort and such, and it would be sooooo nice to have a Mog house to do a full stat reset in etc...)
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#43 Sep 27 2010 at 3:48 PM Rating: Good
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473 posts
I am fine with being a paying beta tester, if the ned product turns out amazing. Its an MMO launch a lot of
features won't come right away until feedback is first recieved . . . .

But simple features noted above yes those are tweaks and need to be implemented as soon as possible. Because
simple bazaar browsing, inv sorting, easilly manipulated camera, and these little things add up.

I agree with the OP 100% and I am making it clear I am a FF fanboy on all accounts, but i also want
to enjoy the game without remedial time sinks . . . .

But again i was there for NA launch and beta of XI and I actually stopped playing and waited till about a year
after NA launch to get into XI until certain things were ironed out.

Twas the same with WoW and EQ series. These games need a break-in tweak period after retail release to manipulate and
improve current systems, and features. In the mean time to also work in new features and fix broken ones, or remove them entirely.

That's my thoughts
#44Totalstupidity, Posted: Sep 27 2010 at 3:57 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) "Do you know the definition of narrow?"
#45 Sep 27 2010 at 4:12 PM Rating: Good
Sage
***
1,675 posts
Totalstupidity wrote:
"Do you know the definition of narrow?"


A forum about FFXIV is not a place you should be asking for the meanings a word.

Try Googling the words you want to learn about if you want to find a definition.


Don't get me wrong though, I'm all for kids expanding their minds.

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 5:59pm by Totalstupidity



Really? Even after an edit?

Look if you want to be an even smarter-@$$ then you win.

But to say "very area is made up of small narrow paths" then it leads me to believe you do not know the definition of the very words you use. Or you do, and are implying something totally different.

#46 Sep 27 2010 at 4:35 PM Rating: Default
24 posts


Kierk wrote:
Really? Even after an edit?

Look if you want to be an even smarter-@$$ then you win.

But to say "very area is made up of small narrow paths" then it leads me to believe you do not know the definition of the very words you use. Or you do, and are implying something totally different.




Lol, I'm reading posts on few different sites while conversing in 360 chat and watching Stargate Atlantis while half asleep, if i have a few typos then big deal.

I also find it funny that i corrected my typo before you even posted. (lol)


Kinda pathetic that anyone would try to argue over a typo. Kids really are turning into pansies.

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 6:37pm by Totalstupidity
#47 Sep 27 2010 at 6:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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305 posts
Quote:
Last time they rushed an MMO to the market they ended up with 500k playerbase.

What exactly does SE need to learn from this "mistake"? :)


Aside from the point that it is a "before-time" as Callinon said, they also now have to deal with competing with themselves.

FFXI was the sole mmo put out by SE. SE fans will likely at least look into it - which coupled with the mmo market/genre of the time lead to them being successful. Now however, the mmo playerbase of the SE fanbase have a choice in how they spend their time - play ffxi or ffxiv.

Competing with yourself is not really a good thing, especially when the new game is generally reviewed nuetral to slightly negative and the old game is recieving rather enticing updates.
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#48 Sep 27 2010 at 7:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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349 posts
Quote:
FFXI was the sole mmo put out by SE.


In fact, wasn't FEO (Fantasy Earth Online) also a SE MMO ?
#49 Sep 27 2010 at 8:04 PM Rating: Good
**
305 posts
Quote:
In fact, wasn't FEO (Fantasy Earth Online) also a SE MMO ?


Actually, yes... i did not hear of it / remember it, sorry for the misinformation. But going from the wiki, it was released after ffxi and had the following:

Quote:
Several months after the release, Square Enix canceled the game because of severe lack of demand


Which, sad to say, can be interpetted to support my previous statement about competing with yourself as a negative.

Either way though, ffxi came out well before that game, which while my statement is sorta off over the course of ffxi's lifetime, during its release and a few years after it is true.



Edited, Sep 27th 2010 10:06pm by KacesofCaitsith
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