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crafting seems....screwed upFollow

#1 Sep 27 2010 at 8:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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im frustrated with the crafting system now. something changed from beta to now that made it much more difficult, or so it would seem.

but it seems like its only me and my friends. ive seen people with lower rank in a craft than i successfully make items that i have trouble making. case in point being a rank 8 armorer (who dinged 9 with this synth) making bronze plates, a synth that, at rank 12 armorer, i seem to fail about as often as i succeed. i watched her hammer out four of these plates in quick succession, no failures on her part.

so what am i missing? i have smith at rank 12, armorer at rank 12, leatherworker at 5 (necessary to level LWing for some higher level armorer stuff). maybe goldsmithing now? is it just a matter of not having the right supporting crafts? should it be expected that a person will have and use 3-5 subcrafts just to be successful in another one? cause thats what it seems like to me.

im much more inclined to believe that im just missing something else, but as you can probably tell, i have my nagging doubts. anyone else feel this way?
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#2 Sep 27 2010 at 8:31 PM Rating: Good
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Gear, I'd assume.
#3 Sep 27 2010 at 8:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Crafting is the only thing not screwed up.
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#4 Sep 27 2010 at 8:36 PM Rating: Good
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Gear.

Past rank 10 gears are absolutely important. Before getting the tool upgrade, I have 70% chance to make copper ring at rank 11. After tool upgrade, still rank 11, I have 99% chance (1% was when element unstable and it went bang with -68 durability). I also eat food with craftsmanship buff, wear DoH gear for craftsmanship, mag craftmanship and control buff. They seems to help quite a bit.
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#5 Sep 27 2010 at 8:42 PM Rating: Good
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It could be luck or you could be pressing the wrong actions on the wrong colors of your crystals which would cause a higher failure rate.

Im not sure exactly what they are but Ive read either red crystal = low chance of success, orange medium, white good, rainbow random or depends on the color it is when you hit button. Other way Ive heard is do rapid on red, bold on orange and standard on white. Hope that helps.

Edit: to the poster above me, what food do you eat? And you could also use the crafting help guilds offer.

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 10:43pm by PinkMermaid
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#6 Sep 27 2010 at 8:43 PM Rating: Good
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Khornette wrote:
Gear.

Past rank 10 gears are absolutely important. Before getting the tool upgrade, I have 70% chance to make copper ring at rank 11. After tool upgrade, still rank 11, I have 99% chance (1% was when element unstable and it went bang with -68 durability). I also eat food with craftsmanship buff, wear DoH gear for craftsmanship, mag craftmanship and control buff. They seems to help quite a bit.


Could you tell me which food gives the craftsmanship buff?
#7 Sep 27 2010 at 8:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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id *love* to upgrade my gear. problem is, i run into the same problem....ive failed about a dozen cross-pein hammer head synths since level 9 (now smith 12). ive heard you run into something of a brick wall if you dont upgrade your gear, so i made that a priority, but was consistently frustrated at each chance, even with high-tier guild support.

in short, how the **** did you guys upgrade it?

Edited, Sep 27th 2010 7:55pm by Quor
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The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#8 Sep 27 2010 at 9:50 PM Rating: Decent
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From what I've seen, the clothcraft/leathercraft specialists will be the ones churning out +crafting gear.

Other than hunting down someone you've spotted crafting a high level armour in your chat log, only way for now is randomly searching bazaars.

Also, have you tried equipping your LV10 action skill for blacksmith? It is supposed to really help your success rate when activated, although it is random activation from what I have heard from others.
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#9 Sep 27 2010 at 10:30 PM Rating: Good
It seems that when you hit 10-11 with no gear upgrades crafting becomes painful.

The alternative if to make low level synths easily to pass levels along, just means it will take longer.
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#10 Sep 27 2010 at 10:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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how does one upgrade their gear? it seems to me that all the mats necessary require other items from other crafts that are of higher level. take the bronze cross-pein hammer for instance; it needs a piece of cloth that takes weaving 20 to make.

so....how do you get that gear?
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The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#11 Sep 27 2010 at 11:08 PM Rating: Good
Quor wrote:
im frustrated with the crafting system now. something changed from beta to now that made it much more difficult, or so it would seem.

but it seems like its only me and my friends. ive seen people with lower rank in a craft than i successfully make items that i have trouble making. case in point being a rank 8 armorer (who dinged 9 with this synth) making bronze plates, a synth that, at rank 12 armorer, i seem to fail about as often as i succeed. i watched her hammer out four of these plates in quick succession, no failures on her part.

so what am i missing? i have smith at rank 12, armorer at rank 12, leatherworker at 5 (necessary to level LWing for some higher level armorer stuff). maybe goldsmithing now? is it just a matter of not having the right supporting crafts? should it be expected that a person will have and use 3-5 subcrafts just to be successful in another one? cause thats what it seems like to me.

im much more inclined to believe that im just missing something else, but as you can probably tell, i have my nagging doubts. anyone else feel this way?


What stats are both of you putting points into?
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#12 Sep 27 2010 at 11:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Could someone post the list of all the gear upgrades available for 10+? I'm a 14 Carpenter and man is it rough.

I'm currently only using Smithy's Gloves and the rank 1 tools because I have yet to find anyone selling the upgraded tools.
#13 Sep 27 2010 at 11:16 PM Rating: Good
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all of mine are going into str, dex and some vit, my main class being marauder.
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The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#14 Sep 27 2010 at 11:18 PM Rating: Good
Quor wrote:
how does one upgrade their gear? it seems to me that all the mats necessary require other items from other crafts that are of higher level. take the bronze cross-pein hammer for instance; it needs a piece of cloth that takes weaving 20 to make.

so....how do you get that gear?


What is the cloth?

Some of the materials can be found from the guilds.
Expensive yes.

Alternatively one could just level up off of leves, since they provide a boost to earned skill points.
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#15 Sep 27 2010 at 11:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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undyed canvas cloth:

http://ffxiv.zam.com/en/item.html?ffxivitem=6020002#Recipes

used to be sold by the goldsmith guy in ul'dah, but it was removed.

the other option is the birsbeak hammer, both of which (bronze and birdsbeak) ive acquired all the other mats for, but again this one needs the undyed canvas cloth....which is craftable by a rank 20 weaver.

http://ffxiv.zam.com/en/item.html?ffxivitem=6020006#Recipes

which is really on a whole new level of *************** require rank 20+ mats for an item designed with an "optimal" rank of 7?

either im missing something here, or else im the only sane one as they say on tvtropes.
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The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#16 Sep 27 2010 at 11:50 PM Rating: Good
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The undyed canvas cloth required to make the bronze cross-pein hammer can apparently ONLY be crafted be a rank ~20 weaver. I'm not sure how ANYONE is upgrading their blacksmith equipment, as I doubt there are few if any 20+ weavers right now.
#17 Sep 27 2010 at 11:59 PM Rating: Good
Quor wrote:
undyed canvas cloth:

http://ffxiv.zam.com/en/item.html?ffxivitem=6020002#Recipes

used to be sold by the goldsmith guy in ul'dah, but it was removed.

the other option is the birsbeak hammer, both of which (bronze and birdsbeak) ive acquired all the other mats for, but again this one needs the undyed canvas cloth....which is craftable by a rank 20 weaver.

http://ffxiv.zam.com/en/item.html?ffxivitem=6020006#Recipes

which is really on a whole new level of bullsh*t....why require rank 20+ mats for an item designed with an "optimal" rank of 7?

either im missing something here, or else im the only sane one as they say on tvtropes.


Well..., ****.
Sorry I was hoping for you it was cotton cloth.

However, it may be worth a try to see if cotton is what you really need.
I have come across a few synths that had the wrong mats needed.
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#18 Sep 27 2010 at 11:59 PM Rating: Good
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i've run into the same problem, the only crafting "weapon" i've managed to upgrade is my needle and that was easily done as a blacksmith, i've 3 of the crafting classes at 10 now and weaving minor armor upgrades seems to be the only way i've found to get crafting stats, and i've got the parts for the birdsbeak hammer in my inventory waiting to find an undyed canvas.

hopefully they fix the required items for combines to be more in line with the level of the item within a few patches.
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#19 Sep 28 2010 at 12:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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I know my post is a little off topic. I just received a new Armory hammer in hopes my synthesis problems would be remedied. And... it was for awhile.

Ive been coming into a problem where I would do absolutely wonderful. Progress looks like this: 30% > 30% > 25% > then I would all of a sudden break 50 times until my craft breaks in nasty ways. Example of my Durability progress: 105 > 101 > 90 > 60 > 35 > 5 > 0 The last 10% seems to be impossible to finish. I am level 15 Armorer doing 10-15 synths. No matter what I do I always start out doing great only to fail horribly. The crafting system seems extremely broken.

Edited, Sep 28th 2010 12:07am by Zalim
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#20 Sep 28 2010 at 12:09 AM Rating: Good
Warlord Zalim wrote:
Ive been coming into a problem where I would do absolutely wonderful. Progress looks like this: 30% > 30% > 10%> then I would all of a sudden break 50 times until my craft breaks. The last 10% seems to be impossible to finish. I am level 15 Armorer doing 10-15 synths. No matter what I do I always start out doing great only to fail horribly. The crafting system seems extremely broken.


I just hit 15 Armorer myself today.

I agree I start off good or great then everything hits the fan near the end.
I have found a slight help to that though, using other craft abilities.
If you haven't already I STRONGLY suggest obtaining Preserve and Fulfillment, Rank 10 Alchemy and Leatherworking. (Respectively)

Edited, Sep 28th 2010 2:09am by Swagtronica
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#21 Sep 28 2010 at 12:09 AM Rating: Good
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Warlord Zalim wrote:
Ive been coming into a problem where I would do absolutely wonderful. Progress looks like this: 30% > 30% > 10%> then I would all of a sudden break 50 times until my craft breaks. The last 10% seems to be impossible to finish. I am level 15 Armorer doing 10-15 synths. No matter what I do I always start out doing great only to fail horribly. The crafting system seems extremely broken.


It's doing this with me too. Seems ridiculously random.

I honestly don't know how to progress in this game farther than I am.

Leveled gladiator to 10. Gets really hard to kill stuff efficiently.

Leveled blacksmithing and armoring to 10 so I can equip my character. Unable to create the items I need without one or more rank 15-20 crafted items.

Okay, so what now? Endless searching in the market ward?
#22 Sep 28 2010 at 12:15 AM Rating: Decent
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what i done so far with the craft is spam rapid, and chance to fail for me is 10%, at the last 2 times where i fail my craft is 100% and 0 duration, i am below rank 10 so i dont know about rank above 20.

ps: and the price to craft for item is **** high even when you farm mats yourself, example copper wristlet, NPC sell for 9k but if you craft it yourself, with 200g/copper nugget (480g in broker) + shard & crystal, it can get up to 4k if you sell your shard and crystal cheap

Edited, Sep 28th 2010 2:17am by Shneibel
#23 Sep 28 2010 at 12:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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If you haven't already I STRONGLY suggest obtaining Preserve and Fulfillment, Rank 10 Alchemy and Leatherworking. (Respectively)


thats another thing that irks me....i dont mind the idea of support crafts, but alchemy AND leatherworking? AND armorer? AND smithing? thats four crafts to successfully make armor. i love the idea of one, maybe two support crafts (LWing, smith, armor, or weaver, goldsmith, LWing) but when you need half the professions to progress in another profession, theres a problem.

horizontal progression is great and all, but this is a bit ridiculous.

ill give the cotton cloth a try. worst i lose is gil, and thats not hard to come by.
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The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#24 Sep 28 2010 at 1:04 AM Rating: Good
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I've taken to doing a lot of medium difficulty synths in terms of my craft levels. Any of the special things that I want to make but am having trouble.. Ie Fish Glue, or a rank 11+ dye. I keep so high grade + items for the synth. For example for the fish glue I used a +3 Sea cucumber, and a +1 water. Not so concerned about the quality addition, I use it for the extra durability. Allows for straight out rapid start to finish, provided an element doesn't destabilized. I've avoided using just all +1's however.. as the increase doesn't seem to out way the difficulty.
#25 Sep 28 2010 at 1:26 AM Rating: Good
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I will give my little trick that i use... which isnt so much of a trick, but whatever.

I do the same thing i did in FF11. Do the leves for ___ Craft (which obviously wasnt in 11) then pick whatever is the easiest item to make with the cheapest shard/item combination and make that til exp drops off. Next pick a higher level cheap (in terms of cost) item to make. Put your highest element in whatever crystal you need the most of and change it if the crystal need changes.

Example/Hint -> Bronze needle... 1 bronze nugget +shards (which i have tons of all types pretty much by now)
#26 Sep 28 2010 at 2:02 AM Rating: Good
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omg... I can't believe how stupid tonight was. I risked a whole 36 hour levequest period on a test (still have 2 more to do mind you) and all i did was rapid... NOTHING ELSE... no wait, no standard, no bold. I did use blinding synthesis when it was available and had simple support on the level 10 and 15 quests. Through 6 guildleves level 1-15 that's all I did and only broke 1 item (was some freak 99% unstable crystal that took 50 some durability.) but finished all 6 quests with ease. I am a sad panda cause now I know never to use strategy unless I want a HQ item. Here I was for the past week watching every little thing to get 1 synthesis accomplished.

lol... if you want to risk everything do the following:

1) Find some kick *** music to jam too

2) get items from NPC quests

3) Get Syntheses support

4) Jam out and hit rapid for an hour.

lol... some fun strategy eh?
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#27 Sep 28 2010 at 2:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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thats pretty much what ive been doing when i want skill ups zalim. ive read all the "use XXX synthesis when its YYY color" stuff out there, and none of it seems to have any rhyme or reason to me when put into practice. sure, ill use rapid on red and sometimes itll work, but then sometimes it wont, and the instances of working vs not working seem to be about the same for me.

ultimately it comes down to a simple cost/benefit equation. if i want more skill ups, then rapid gives me the lowest durability lost with the greatest chance of progression, and quality be damned. better to finish something with low quality than to botch it completely.

the exception to this rule being if maker's muse is active, then ill use standard since MM increases the success rate of standard synths. likewise, if blinding speed is on, its only rapid (not like that changes anything, but still). but sometimes, even with maker's muse active, the risk of durability loss for using standard outweighs the potential gain in progress. its better to fail a bunch of rapids, getting 7-10% progress in exchange for losing 7-10 durability than to risk 15-20% progress gain against a loss of 20+ durability.

dont get me wrong, i can see the depth of the system once you have the skill to start guaranteeing a single failed bold synthesis wont set you back 50 durability (or you have the HQ goods necessary to risk losing 50 durability) but for skilling up i dont see a reason to use much beyond rapid. a little synthesis support and youre golden, or at least no worse off than if you tried to divine what the pretty colors are trying to tell you.

Edited, Sep 28th 2010 1:27am by Quor
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The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#28 Sep 28 2010 at 2:38 AM Rating: Good
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I agree completely Quor. It seems like such a fun little thing to do it may have ruined all the fun out of it. At this point if I break I wont care cause I can always get more materials myself. Wonder how we will look back at this thread in a couple of months.

I am waiting for Square-Enix to add this in a future maintenance: "Fixed synthesis recipes to now correctly reflect player's level." then it will be back to the color reading fun we are all reading up and relying on. Its broken!
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#29 Sep 28 2010 at 2:42 AM Rating: Decent
Bronze tool heads require around 13-15 smithing skill to make reliably. I blasted through a ton of bronze nuggets just trying to get a variety of different heads made with a success rate of maybe one in five at rank 10. And, as you've no doubt noticed, a lot of the tool recipes require materials above and beyond the heads that need a higher rank DoH class to make (undyed canvas cloth is an example).

So far, I've managed to upgrade my sewing needle (lol) and I just tonight upgraded my mining pick. I lucked out tonight in the flax department and was finally able to make the linseed oil I needed in order to make the handle for the pickaxe and the rest was gravy since I already had the head sitting in my retainer's inventory. Next up are all the hammers I have heads for but not all the other components. Then I think I'm going to focus on mining and logging and grinding shards until I have the skill and materials necessary to make proper armor (and crafting gear). I'm already squared away with a bit of tweaking tomorrow night to be churning out some entry level stuff for the standard edition players this week. And I know they'll appreciate it...

<.<
#30 Sep 28 2010 at 2:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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bought some undyed hempen cloth and undyed cotton cloth in ul'dah before porting over to LL to buy an ash hammer grip. tried to make my birdsbeak hammer and got the error message that basically says "dude, only an idiot would think this combination of mats would make an item, and that idiot is you!" only it was a lot more technical.

so, undyed canvas cloth it is. sit things out until i can find a rank 20 weaver.
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Quote:
The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#31 Sep 28 2010 at 3:13 AM Rating: Decent
Quor wrote:
bought some undyed hempen cloth and undyed cotton cloth in ul'dah before porting over to LL to buy an ash hammer grip. tried to make my birdsbeak hammer and got the error message that basically says "dude, only an idiot would think this combination of mats would make an item, and that idiot is you!" only it was a lot more technical.

so, undyed canvas cloth it is. sit things out until i can find a rank 20 weaver.


Ya, at rank 10 weaver I could convert cotton bolls to cotton yarn with decent success. Also at rank 10, trying to convert it to undyed canvas resulted in the, "LOLOLOL come back when you're not so nub!!" message. Now I'm rank 12 with my gaze fixed on the weaver guild for advanced support and see if I can't crank out at least a couple of canvas with my stockpiled yarn. I'm close to rank 13, though, so I'm going to get that first and then try my luck. My sense is that it's going to be just as bad as trying to make bronze hammer heads at rank 10 blacksmith D:

Edited, Sep 28th 2010 2:13am by Aurelius
#32 Sep 28 2010 at 3:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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my experience has been that if youre even one rank under the listed rank of an item, then youll be in for a world of crafting pain.

harsh, but there it is all the same. not too sure how i feel about it either.
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The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#33 Sep 28 2010 at 3:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Warlord Zalim wrote:
I agree completely Quor. It seems like such a fun little thing to do it may have ruined all the fun out of it. At this point if I break I wont care cause I can always get more materials myself. Wonder how we will look back at this thread in a couple of months.

I am waiting for Square-Enix to add this in a future maintenance: "Fixed synthesis recipes to now correctly reflect player's level." then it will be back to the color reading fun we are all reading up and relying on. Its broken!


what i notice the color change deman on the duration & the % of sucess, its not like the color decide which type of syn you use
#34 Sep 28 2010 at 5:53 AM Rating: Good
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With regards to crafting not working so well after rank 10, do you have Asuran Armguards equipped? Because they are supposed to give an immense boost to your equipped weapon. They stop working after rank 10, which may be why you are experiencing problems now as a higher lever crafter (and why others are succeeding at a lower level).
#35 Sep 28 2010 at 6:47 AM Rating: Good
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same thing happened to me and I never had the asuran gloves. I think the formulas expected us to upgrade our weapons every 10 levels.
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#36 Sep 28 2010 at 7:29 AM Rating: Decent
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I seem to have MAJOR problems with hempen cloth. At rank 8 weaver I thought "oooh hempen cloth undyed rank 1 synth!" both tools tried with supports gear and methods. Managed to fluke 1 and got 487 class points. Level 1 synth my rear! Only time I've seen that many skill points for a single synth is with a synth 2+ levels above your current level. Another is alchemy 11 synth for turning crystals to shards with fine sand. Tried everything... Everything fails... Think the guides available ATM must be from betas that have not yet taken into account changes in release
#37 Sep 28 2010 at 7:33 AM Rating: Decent
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You also may have mistakenly THOUGHT they were ARM but were BSM? BSM can make bronze parts much earlier than ARM. Also, bronze plates are mid to high teens I wouldn't expect to make them at 7 with any rate of success worthwhile. It wasn't until 15 that I could start cranking out bronze plate without exploding the majority of my inventory.
#38 Sep 28 2010 at 7:48 AM Rating: Good
I've found a lot of difficulty comes from synths that show a training requirement, such as "Tailoring Training" (for body/legs/etc pieces) or "Weaving Training" (for thread->cloth), which can be bought with guild points once they become available. My theory on this is that any synth that shows the requirement will be significantly (5+ ranks worth) more difficult without the required training.

Once people start getting guild points and purchasing them, we'll see how this plays out. If that is the case, it may be better in the long run to just skill up on components that do not require those trainings and either hold them until you've got training, or hold them until you're well above the skill caps for each item.
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#39 Sep 28 2010 at 7:54 AM Rating: Decent

Just a little note about difficulty.

All recipes requiring a certain skill, for example "Weaving Training", are extremely hard to make. Once you have these skills the recipes become very easy.

Unfortunately you can only get guildmarks from Local guildleves Rank 20+

I am still trying to figure out why SE decided crafting to be a "trickle down" economy. High level crafters provide ingredients for lower level crafters. It seems like a good idea, i just think we are at a disadvantage because we all started at the same time and there are no high level crafters.

If you would start in 1-2 weeks, you could buy Canvas cloth from all the higher level crafters skilling up on it and you would be able to make great armor for your crafting level.

I bet the non CE that will join in a few days are going to love the crafting because we will be providing them with Hempen, Canvas and Cotton cloth all the way they level up.

KJ
~fantasy economist~
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#40 Sep 28 2010 at 1:40 PM Rating: Good
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I am still trying to figure out why SE decided crafting to be a "trickle down" economy. High level crafters provide ingredients for lower level crafters. It seems like a good idea, i just think we are at a disadvantage because we all started at the same time and there are no high level crafters.


i figured thats part of it too, the growing pains of a newborn economy. still, seems a bit back asswards; im not a fan of the trickle down model myself, especially not in this context.

Quote:
Once people start getting guild points and purchasing them, we'll see how this plays out. If that is the case, it may be better in the long run to just skill up on components that do not require those trainings and either hold them until you've got training, or hold them until you're well above the skill caps for each item.


probably not a bad idea. ive noticed that too, but why they made them require such a high level is beyond me. why even allow a certain synth without the training if its going to fail more often than not? i think someone at SE cackles in maniacal glee every time one of us blows a fire crystal and five wind shards making something listed as "optimal rank 11", knowing how we writhe in frustration at the uncaring hands of fate that guide us.

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You also may have mistakenly THOUGHT they were ARM but were BSM? BSM can make bronze parts much earlier than ARM. Also, bronze plates are mid to high teens I wouldn't expect to make them at 7 with any rate of success worthwhile. It wasn't until 15 that I could start cranking out bronze plate without exploding the majority of my inventory.


i thought that might be what it was, until i saw others with similar or lower levels of ARM making the same items with what seemed to me a higher success rate (that, or my presence was REALLY lucky for them or something).

either way, its back to basics for now. stockpile a bunch of bronze nuggets in preparation for higher level synths i suppose. just slowly nibble my way up the skill ladder.
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