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Does anyone understand Touch Up?Follow

#1 Sep 27 2010 at 11:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm having some trouble seeing how this affects the synth. When I use it, only the durability lowers. I usually select it until my durability is below 20 or the orb sparks, but have only HQd once as a result.
Any advice?
#2 Sep 27 2010 at 11:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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I understand that it made me lose 48 durability and fail my first Bronze Hoplon synth today. Smiley: frown

Other than that, nothing.



*grumble...lost 15k worth of mats...grumble*
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#3 Sep 27 2010 at 11:09 PM Rating: Good
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Eske, Star Breaker wrote:
*grumble...lost 15k worth of mats...grumble*
**/comfort**

In my personal experience, it depends on the final quality of your item, if the quality is high enough (80+?) and you touch it up 4-5 times the chances to get HQ's are higher, some times as Eske said it can just take big chunks of durability and break your synthesis, I believe this happens when you lack of the necessary skill(or skill+equipment+support) to make an HQ other, like a system to avoid making high quality gear just out of luck.

But that's just personal experience, haven't tested it enough to confirm this.

Ken
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#4 Sep 27 2010 at 11:21 PM Rating: Good
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I can't understand it as far as mechanics go, but I do know that my boyfriend using Touch Up turned a subligar he was crafting into a +1 subligar (meaning that when he hit 100% it was NQ, then he hit Touch Up and it became HQ). Unfortunately, I can't remember what the quality rating was. :(
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#5 Sep 27 2010 at 11:21 PM Rating: Good
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Basically Touch up allows you to "reroll" finish. And depending on quality can increase your chance to get an hq synth.

It's a risk, if all you are going for is a finished product, don't bother... if you are going for crits then it can be the difference between an nq and an hq.
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#6 Sep 28 2010 at 2:11 AM Rating: Decent
Ya, touch up just gives you more chances at HQ. I've so far used it to make two Straw Hat +1, two Bone Ring +2 (and one +1), and a Bronze Dagger +1 (!!!glee). As others have said, if your finished quality wasn't 80+ and/or you've got less than 30 durability remaining, use with care. I blew up a square maple shield with it.
#7 Sep 28 2010 at 5:59 AM Rating: Good
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I wondered myself and doesn't look like it's guaranteed. I finished a straw hat the other day using 4 x Straw +1 at 140 quality. Touched up 3 times and nothing happened. Didn't try again as it probably would have broken.

Sometimes I wonder if there is any actual sense in the crafting mechanics.
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#8 Sep 28 2010 at 7:23 AM Rating: Default
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Made a Brass Choker. Quality was 56 and was able to touch up 5 times and made it a +1. I had Master guild help. The durability was 67, touch up took 5-8 points per time i did it.
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#9 Sep 28 2010 at 7:34 AM Rating: Decent

What it does is roll some dice based on your Quality to decide if you get a +X item.

1. Q001-099, +1
2. Q100-199, +2
3. Q200-299, +3

You get a number of chances to receive a +X item depending on the Durability you have left. Personally i would not go below 25. I have made +3 items with Q248 and just 1 touch up and i also made +1 items with Q87 and 8 touch up.

I have not seen any indiction that a Q90 item has a higher chance than a Q40 item to get a +1 at the touch up stage. It seems to be entirely random but i also don't have a big enough sample size to proove it.

I personally like the system.

KJ
~Touching Up Your Skirt~
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#10 Sep 28 2010 at 8:00 AM Rating: Decent
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I was wondering this myself.. thank you for your answers cuz atleast now i have an idea
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#11 Sep 28 2010 at 8:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Here's a question.

What's the purpose of bold synthesis if I can simply use rapid the whole time to get to 100% and then spend any left over durability on touch up to increase quality?
#12 Sep 28 2010 at 9:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
What's the purpose of bold synthesis if I can simply use rapid the whole time to get to 100% and then spend any left over durability on touch up to increase quality?


Quality is likely taken into consideration.

I've got no actual proof but it seems to me that your std/rpd/bold success rates are effected by the current quality rating.

#13 Sep 28 2010 at 9:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Quality does not appear to mean HQ. I have gotten HQs with as low as 18 quality. I have also had quality over 250 and not HQed. However, EVERY time I have HQed the orb thingy was sparking.
- I stand corrected:)
Quote:
What it does is roll some dice based on your Quality to decide if you get a +X item.

1. Q001-099, +1
2. Q100-199, +2
3. Q200-299, +3

That could explain a bit to me:), however I have gotten a +1 with a quality as high as 150... So, I am assuming than that your chance is for a +1, +2 if you are in the +2 range, and a +1, +2, or +3 in the +3 range.

As for touch up, I have found either tender touch or Preserve work REALLY good at HQing. I get the synth as close as I think I can without completing it, than try and wait until either shows up (I prefer preserve as it seems to increase chance of HQ, where tender touch slows down durability loss for 2-5 attempts). Trigger ability, and hopefully complete the synth in one more standard or rapid. Than use touch up until I am <30 (depending on how much durability I am losing in touch up I will go as low as 10). Haven't made a +2 yet, but I haven't done many finished products in live game (in the beta I did, but live, I have been working on my alchemy and carpentry more than other synths).

Edited, Sep 28th 2010 10:47am by rfolkker
#14 Sep 28 2010 at 10:14 AM Rating: Good
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TheLufia wrote:
Here's a question.

What's the purpose of bold synthesis if I can simply use rapid the whole time to get to 100% and then spend any left over durability on touch up to increase quality?


Touch up doesn't increase quality at all. all it does is use durability. Like I said, it's like rerolling the finish.

The bigger question should be what is the purpose of bold when on a successful bold you can still get as little as 3 quality...

I miss the beta days where bold even on a failure could get 40+ quality.... now all it seems to do is take 30-40 durability and make me wonder why I bothered.

Of course that could change if I could find some **** Canvas cloth to make my next set of hammers...

/grumble
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#15 Sep 28 2010 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
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F3rth wrote:

Touch up doesn't increase quality at all. all it does is use durability. Like I said, it's like rerolling the finish.

The bigger question should be what is the purpose of bold when on a successful bold you can still get as little as 3 quality...

I miss the beta days where bold even on a failure could get 40+ quality.... now all it seems to do is take 30-40 durability and make me wonder why I bothered.

Of course that could change if I could find some **** Canvas cloth to make my next set of hammers...

/grumble


This. There really is no point to bold it seems. I'd say 1 out of 10 times it gives you 30+ quality, but 4/10 it fails (you lose 25+ dura) and the otehr 5/10 you get 3-15 quality. I get mroe quality from Rapid Synthesis, you can routinely get over 10 quality on successful rapid synths.

But then again I'm probably missing something.
#16 Sep 28 2010 at 11:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
But then again I'm probably missing something.


Yup. Bold is a trade off of quality for progress. If your at 92% progress it makes more sense to go for a bold and get the added quality than it does for rapid or standard. (Assuming you have the durability to spare.)
#17 Sep 28 2010 at 11:21 AM Rating: Good
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windexy wrote:
Quote:
But then again I'm probably missing something.


Yup. Bold is a trade off of quality for progress. If your at 92% progress it makes more sense to go for a bold and get the added quality than it does for rapid or standard. (Assuming you have the durability to spare.)


I realize this trade-off.

Thats how it was in OB, but now you are unlikely to get the big skill-ups. Bold would make more sense if it was truly hit or miss. Either lose 20-30 dura or gain 20-40 quality. Its silly when I use it at 92dura and it succeeds and I get 5 quality. I can get more quality from rapid and standard.
#18 Sep 28 2010 at 11:28 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Thats how it was in OB, but now you are unlikely to get the big skill-ups.

Unless the item your making is well below your level.

Quote:
Bold would make more sense if it was truly hit or miss. Either lose 20-30 dura or gain 20-40 quality.


It pretty much works that way when your well above the items level.

Quote:
Its silly when I use it at 92dura and it succeeds and I get 5 quality. I can get more quality from rapid and standard.


Stop using it on synths your not ready to use it on.
#19 Sep 28 2010 at 11:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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windexy wrote:
Quote:
Its silly when I use it at 92dura and it succeeds and I get 5 quality. I can get more quality from rapid and standard.


Stop using it on synths your not ready to use it on.
I would think having 10 ranks above a recipe's requirement would make one ready to use bold, but I too have a low rate of success with it. It's gotten so I don't touch bold, ever. It's simply not worth risking the durability loss when that durability could be better spent on an additional HQ attempt.
#20 Sep 28 2010 at 12:12 PM Rating: Good
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#21 Sep 28 2010 at 12:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I would think having 10 ranks above a recipe's requirement would make one ready to use bold, but I too have a low rate of success with it. It's gotten so I don't touch bold, ever. It's simply not worth risking the durability loss when that durability could be better spent on an additional HQ attempt.


Maybe it requires a sub skill or the level listing is wrong. Most items synthesis levels are currently wrong and the best you can get is a 10 level range.
#22 Sep 28 2010 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent
I've found I have some pretty good luck when it comes to using bold, I just choose it usually when the orb turns red. Then again I do have a pair of Asuran Armguards... I have yet to HQ anything however.
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#23 Sep 28 2010 at 12:42 PM Rating: Good
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Best formula for me to make HQ stuff is this, though the used recipe shouldn't be too high or it will fail either way and you won't have the durability to work with waits in between:


First, watch the colors of your 'orb'. At first it's white, so you start out with normal. Continue to do so until its color changes. Yellow is rapid, red is bold. It pretty much means your rate of success for a certain way of syncing is higher at that moment. So far white and yellow seem to be confirmed. I just think bold is hard to pull off in general, and shouldn't be touched unless you outleveled the rank of your recipe. At rank 8 making bone rings it was mostly safe to use bold when my orb was red. Especially near the end of a sync it's recommended (unless, as always, you're lacking the durability).

Now when your orb begins to flash in all sorts of colors, use wait and hope it will change back to a single color right away. Often it does, if not a second or even third wait won't hurt if there's lots of durability left still. Keep in mind that a success (it will say so in the chat log) often means a great increase in quality too, no matter what you choose. So keeping an eye on the colors and using the related option means maximum quality with smallest risk of failing. I noticed that when my orb was flashing and I used either option, it failed more often even on low level recipes. So these waits are not only for when the orb turns unstable (has yet to happen to me crafting things this way).

When your orb goes back to a single color, continue as explained until it's all done. Then just use touch up and hope it will do something. Often though, with enough quality, it starts right at +1 and you can go from there.

Hope that helps somebody out there in a way.
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#24 Sep 28 2010 at 12:52 PM Rating: Default
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the 1-99, 100-199, 200-299 scales seems hold true, but I just wanted say I did get a quality +13 from a touch up. It happened one time out of like 50-100 so might been an error but it def happened. Try get the item quality up with bold synth and keep it stable with wait, and finish it with durability left with rapid and regular. If you have lot durability left at 100% and touch it up, have chance go +1, +2, +3. If you have skill over the level of the synth and use facilities + skill book you can finish with high quality and lot durability left and have better chance at touching up a +. Is it just me or is this Vanguard crafting...
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#25 Sep 28 2010 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
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I haven't had Touch up succeed yet in altering an HQ or NQ result. I guess I just need to try it more.

However, in a somewhat related note I have noticed a considerable difference in terms of my success/failure rates on synths depending on the time of day(in-game) Maybe this is coincidence but the last several batches of local leves I haven done have been more succesful at night especially in wind storms than on clear sunny days. Meh, could be just roll of the dice.
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