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Party mechanics, and relative Mob Levels.Follow

#1 Sep 28 2010 at 7:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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This is a long one. And before I get rate bombed - trust me, I'm enjoying certain elements of the game very much. I agree with most of the issues being discussed on this forum, but that doesn't make me a hater.

One thing I haven't noticed being talked about are the functions of a party, and how they work co-operatively to achieve a simple goal.

Today I set up a 6 man party to help out a guy. The party consisted of:

Gladiator 10 with Rank 7 Shield skill (Me)
Gladiator 10, Dagger
Pugilist 9
Thaumaturge 9
Conjurer 7
Archer 7

We try a shared Rank 10 leve on 3 Star difficulty, supposedly a good challenge for a group of our size. We absolutely rolled the leve in a matter of seconds. There was no point in the PT assisting me the main tank, one mob at a time. The healer barely lifted his staff.

We change tack, and try our next leves at 5 Star difficulty. This should prove to be a more substantial challenge, calling in proper use of skills and abilities.

We arranged roles and duties. It's pretty simple: Archer pulls the highlighted mob. I engage and gain early enmity. Then everyone gets in and whacks the beast til it falls. Healer casts nice healy spells. Thaum does enfeebs and other thaumy stuff. Everyone wins.

In practice, we found a cluster@#%^ of mobs that cannot be pulled individually, bent enmity mechanics - shared hate, sure, but this was a total crapshoot even down to blind links. I managed to stay on my feet for a while, but the healer said its very hard to cure individual members as the PT health bars do not highlight your currently selected PT member ala FFXI. Soon we were eating dirt.

Eventually we won out, with seconds on the clock, by zerging the enemy. As soon as we re-spawned, we ran straight back to mobs and engaged, still weakened. Is this the tactic we are meant to apply to all group efforts now? Charge head first and just chip whatever you can from the mob before you have to re-spawn?

This seems totally broken and in all honestly, feels completely unsatisfying. Remember that feeling of getting a solid, and efficient party set up in FFXI? None of that applies here. It's headless chicken, tactically deficient hotkey spam as seen in many free to play MMO's.

I welcome the solo content. It's been very nice to have a chance to work things out on my own for a while and progress my own individual interests without falling behind. But if they can't balance a decent solo system with PT mechanics of FFXI - then thats the trick SE REALLY missed, not chat interfaces, auction houses or anything else. that's a fundamental issue right there, and can render the point of playing with other people of no consequence.

Oddly, the time each battle took felt about right. The damage output of our party seemed convincing relative to the supposed challenge of fighting a leve mob at 5 Stars. The issues came from lack of crowd control (though why all mobs must hold hands and share agro is beyond me) and the damage the enemy attacks caused. It seems totally imbalanced at the moment and devalues my favourite element from FFXI - tactics, working as a cohesive unit.

Sorry for the long post!

Do I just suck at the game or do you guys have similar experiences?



Edited, Sep 28th 2010 9:19am by OneFromSilverLight

Edited, Sep 28th 2010 9:26am by OneFromSilverLight
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#2 Sep 28 2010 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
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Personally I think the scaling for levequest mobs are currently a bit "off" at least for level 1 and level 10 levequests. The mob damage scales up reasonably well, I think the defenses of the mobs scale reasonably well, but the mobs HP don't scale up enough. We are currently at the point where to get a decent party challenge for level 10 levequests where you either steamroll the mobs or you are close to getting 1-shot by mobs with very little middle ground.

Admittedly the level 10 levequests seem to scale a bit better than level 1 levequests, so I'm hoping the scaling will continue to get better at higher levels.
#3 Sep 28 2010 at 9:33 AM Rating: Good
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Mobs aggroing in groups is not a new thing and usually would involve a different stratedgy to that of a standard exp party (pretty much like a BCNM battle in FFXI). For example, could one of your party members not have kited the other mobs, while the rest of you pick off one at a time? I know you guys completed it anyway by zerging but just putting another option out there.

Also, your issues with party mechanics seem to revole solely around levequests. Have you tried getting a group together and going out into the field to take on some tough mobs (one at a time)?

I agree levequest difficulty levels beween 1 and 5 stars are a bit strange. I (and many others too) have been soloing a lot of 3 star difficulty rank 10 leves but I did a rank 10 leve last night which involved killing 6 Dodo's. chose 1 star difficulty and got my *** handed to me (level 10 PGL at present).

I personally would like some feedback from people who have done some 'open world' party play to get their views on the matter.

#4 Sep 28 2010 at 10:15 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
QuFor example, could one of your party members not have kited the other mobs, while the rest of you pick off one at a time?


Not with shared hate, no.

Actually mobs are quite a bit more "intelligent" in FFXIV than in FFXIV.
Overdo your healing while wearing LV1 paper armour, and the mob will shred
you to pieces within seconds. And no "voke" will hold it back.

And one more thing: at least Imps seem to be able to discern weak spots /
most effective targets. I was the highest ranking player in the group, wearing
very low level armour as a mage. Know what: once I lifted my staff (no spell, just
spirit darts, I was instantly No.1 on the hate list. Because I was weak.
#5 Sep 28 2010 at 10:25 AM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
...at least Imps seem to be able to discern weak spots /most effective targets. I was the highest ranking player in the group, wearing very low level armour as a mage. Know what: once I lifted my staff (no spell, just
spirit darts, I was instantly No.1 on the hate list. Because I was weak.
I have a hard time buying that.

SE couldn't program a simple inventory sort/stack function into the game; you think they can implement an intelligent threat assessment system? Likely you're seeing some other mechanic in action. Or, its just broken which is more likely.
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#6 Sep 28 2010 at 10:32 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah party mechanics are incredibly hit and miss with the wonky leve difficulty... Star difficulty doesn't seem to change much beyond how hard the mobs hit... which is really poor implementation.

I had a similar experience with level 10 leves... we had 2 marauders and a gladiator for tanks and damage and a thaum and a conjurer... 5 star leve ended up with us killing moles... their breakout move did aoe 500+ damage (800 to the mages)

It was ridiculous.

But then the other day I did some rank 20 leves with a group. our highest character was rank 14 gladiator (me). the set up was glad glad marauder lancer lancer thaum.

We did 2 leves at rank 20, one of which was finding firestarter imps disguised as lalafell assassins, luckily they only came in groups of two, we'd split up lancer/glad lancer/glad with the marauder paired up with the lower ranked group and spam aoes.

Was immensely fun.

In short... there are alot of balance issues that need to be addressed still... but in the right situations with the right set ups, it can be a lot of fun.
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#7 Sep 28 2010 at 10:40 AM Rating: Good
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We did a behest the other day involving about 8-12 party members.
I believe that some mobs target the weakest as I was one of the lower party members and managed to get heat after one attack after others had been wailing on it for much longer.
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#8 Sep 28 2010 at 11:35 AM Rating: Good
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1,888 posts
Interesting points.

I did end up kiting mobs for one one the leves. Until one did a nice TP move and splatted me all over the Aetheryte camp.

I would like to hear more experiences of PT play in XIV though, we need to see how this stuff shapes up mechanically.
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#9 Sep 30 2010 at 1:51 PM Rating: Default
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i remember when i started FFXI and tried to party at plateu as lvl 8 (dissaster) lvl 12 at the dunes (even worst) until i undestood the tactics and what mobs to attack and what not at what lvl, remember an EM ship would brind down a party with the wrong move, or a fly, in WoW i don't remember many xp parties tbh, Eve if duo gangs count as a party then same story, RF online, hmm same? don't go into a few caves, etc etc, maybe the way the system is implemented seems ramdom atm, and it could be broken, i havent try it yet, most of the people in my server seem to be going around minding their own business, but again, i remember one interview to the head developer of FFXIV where he said the system will implement a whole lot of tactics from the players because we'll have to fight against numerous enemys at the same time, it could also mean we just want to go out and knock the heck out of the enemys without thinking the way to go, i dunno, time wil tell.
#10 Sep 30 2010 at 1:59 PM Rating: Decent
8 posts
I'd just like to point out you were trying a 5 star rank 10 leve with 3 sub rank 10's in your group, they're also the squishies. I think you overestimated yourselves a bit, also as someone stated already, maybe adjust your tactics in this setup to get a different result.
#11 Sep 30 2010 at 2:06 PM Rating: Decent
8 posts
You should remember that the obs you're fighting play a role in how difficult the leve is. Killing Dodos is much harder than killing spriggans. >.>
#12 Sep 30 2010 at 2:10 PM Rating: Good
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1,888 posts
I just want to point to this thread, far more useful than mine.

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?game=268&mid=1285745358286479261

Please discuss!
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Reiginsei, San'doria Rank 8 Hume Male.
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[5/5 Duellist 01/17/08][4/5 Koga][0/5 Valor][CoP+RotZ]
Linkshells:
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