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Why the crafting system will kill this gameFollow

#52 Sep 29 2010 at 3:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Easiest solution: Use the repair system of Fallout 3 - in order to repair an AK 47 you need another AK 47 (which will be consumed).

But then people will complain Repairing is too hard/expensive.


or rather, why repair that when I can just buy...make an entirely new one. When you get to end game requiring to constantly replace your equipment really would be a hassle. And what about special drops or quest rewards that aren't normal types?
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#53 Sep 29 2010 at 4:04 AM Rating: Good
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While the repair system is great, i don't see it helping crafters in the end. What I see is everyone will have a friend or know someone that has the craft they need to repair their item. So, all the person really needs is the item to repair the item damaged. I have been repairing friends items often in ffxiv lately. I just ask the provide the item to repair it.
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#54 Sep 29 2010 at 4:04 AM Rating: Decent
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While the repair system is great, i don't see it helping crafters in the end. What I see is everyone will have a friend or know someone that has the craft they need to repair their item. So, all the person really needs is the item to repair the item damaged. I have been repairing friends items often in ffxiv lately. I just ask the provide the item to repair it.
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#55 Sep 29 2010 at 5:14 AM Rating: Good
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I did read the whole thread, and I am worried by some of the replies that suggest the "necessity" of repairs will ensure an ongoing important role for crafters at endgame. (rather than a sideline)

Look at it from the point of view of a player like me that likes adventuring, some fishing and gathering perhaps, even cooking, but is not really interested in the "serious" business of crafting weapons and armor. I would imagine there are many MMO players with a similar mindset. I'm happy to help supply the market with consumables, but that's about it.

When I first started playing and discovered repairs and how tedious it is, my first reaction was "why the f*** couldn't they have just left this crap out". Then the further discovery that different DoHs are required to repair things, I said a further "***** this" under my breath and decided to do all the repairs myself. Now it seems that this may not be possible without leveling multiple crafting skills to significant levels.

To me, repairing gear is NOT fun, it has never been, and never will be any part of having fun in an MMO. I will grind for hours quite happily, but if I have to spend significant game time (leveling crafts or chasing crafters) just to keep my gear WORKING... GRRRR.

I am so hoping that you guys are wrong.

Edited, Sep 29th 2010 7:17am by DijiGo

Edited, Sep 29th 2010 7:18am by DijiGo
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"i spent 3 hours in bazaar to buy one item, but found 8 more items that i needed, was stoked, if i had used a AH, i would of never found the other items"
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#56 Sep 29 2010 at 7:21 AM Rating: Decent
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I do think you're right that, at this time, only RMTs will have the coordination needed to master crafting and push their characters into the higher levels. That is a little frightening, but I don't think it's a doomsday scenario just yet. Crafting needs some tweaking, but I'm sure it can be regulated so that it will have a similar affect as FFXI had.
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#57 Sep 29 2010 at 7:45 AM Rating: Default
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- All weapons and armor are non-consumable. The only way they leave the economy is if someone vendors them or throws them away.

- Inventory is capped at 160 (+80 per retainer at $1 each)

- Bazaars are capped at 10 per player and an additional 10 per retainer

- The only way to sell an item is for a player to luck across your bazaar or for you to abuse /shout

- The only ways to get materials is to luck upon the right bazaar, buy it at extortionate prices from NPCs, or to farm them yourself


If that's your hook its a little weak imo. Crafting may fail but your reasons as to why, for lack of a better word, suck.

- All weapons and armor are non-consumable: the same applies to every single MMO in existence, and using a simple supply and demand comcept, crafters will only make as much as the demand demands of them, its simple - if they're getting over flooded with x and y items then its their fault or they're using them to power level up to a certain point - but with the help of leves powerleveling isn't even that necessary and with each new level in the discipline you get some useful item to make. The only thing we need (and soon) is an AH and I have a feeling we'll get one within the coming 2 months here.

- I'll illude to FFXI and say the inventory was capped there too, and at a much lower number until you did a whole bunch of quests - despite that people managed just fine usually by making one mule. In FFXIV not only do we have a lot more inventory space on our character but we also have a retainer that equals that amount of space and if space becomes an issue for you a $1 extra isn't going to hurt you in the end but if shouldn't even come to that unless you're keeping *everything*.

- I agree they should increase bazaar room if they're planning on sticking with no AH.

- OR talk with other people. I have on my friends list now a blacksmith/armorer, a leatherworker (who has made me a full set of gear) and an Alchemist and i'm in contact with them regularly - we supply each other with things we need (e.g., the armorer is making me bronze plates so we can make shields to sell in bulk at launch; for those same shields the leatherworker is supplying me with leatherstraps) These guys aren't even part of my LS, I ran across them shopping and saved their name to my friend's list then talked to them again at a later date, give it a shot, people are more willing to help than you think.

- I think the game has plenty of problems atm but crafting is by far the only thing we shouldn't be complaining about imo, its the only system in place which I see functioning as is intended (definitely not the battle system).
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#58 Sep 29 2010 at 7:55 AM Rating: Decent
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No different than FFXI. Crafters level up on items that NPC buys for *decent* gil and take the loss.

Alos, people will throw away lots of stuff in this game. If I spend 15,000 gil on some level 10 neck piece I'm going to toss it when I don't need it anymore rather than go through the trouble of repairing it and bazaaring it. I'll just chuck it, then buy another one when I need it on my next class. So in a sense gear is more "consumable" than it was in ffxi.... at least for inexpensive items.

And despite your statistic estimations, none of these things happened in FFXI. 7 years into it, people are still buying NQ scorpion harnesses. The fact is that there is always an influx of new players or players that were career mages and now levlling up melee jobs, etc.

#59 Sep 29 2010 at 8:05 AM Rating: Good
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Hyrist, ****** Superhero wrote:
Point in case to the above poster:

Me: "Wow the boards are really filled with complaining and negativity."

Wife: "That's what forum boards are for, dear."

Me: "Yah but this time it's really taken to an extreme."

Wife: "That's what you say every time, dear."

Most my in game friends, have their own local boards to use, and don't even touch things like ZAM. Do they complain about the glitches? Sure thing, but they're still playing and loving the game.


Hehe, I like your story. So familiar.

I'm pretty optimistic about the future for FFXIV. I think that chocobos are going to have some kind of pet/storage function. Maybe they will have 500 inventory slots and be summonable anywhere on the overworld map by a handful of grysal greens (which would stack to 99, please).

And, of course, moogles **** rainbows.
#60 Sep 29 2010 at 9:06 AM Rating: Decent
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The one thing that the OP seems to have missed, and I am kinda glad (I know most of the people here know this, and I will state the most obvious "secret" of ff crafting). DON'T LEVEL UP ON FINISHED GEAR!
You want to get skill, you want to make money, find a synth that makes money through NPCs, Players can not consume your goods as fast as you can make them.
I literally have one synth that I can make 30k off of a single item. It's a common item, and I never buy it. The cost is strictly synth support if I feel like not failing at all, and the time to farm enough crystals to synth it.

Every craft I am leveling (carpentry, goldsmithing, armorer, alchemy, Leather) I make a profit on leveling, and I only sell ~10 items a day in my bazaar. The items in my bazaar are leftovers of me synthing my gear, or burning off spare drops that don't NPC. So, ~60% of my drops are synthed and sold, ~39% of my drops are sold outright, and ~1% are actually synthed into something I sell. So overstocking a market is a result of inexperience. Why make 80 pieces of armor you can sell for 10k a piece and hope they all sell in a week, when you can make 100+k a day and gain exp at the same time (leveling up 2-3 classes at the same time).

This system works great for me, and I have a lot bigger problem with maintaining my crystal supply over anything else (and I am working on that with my alchemy:)).
#61XyneDread, Posted: Sep 29 2010 at 9:31 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) awwwwwwwww the game is hard, it will be ok... here, I got some tissues for you and a fresh new diaper. It is ok that some players are better and faster then you *pats back* You will get there someday or better yet, just got play WoW like all the other no talent kiddies :) This game takes thought, patience, and determination, and hopefully it will weed out the children that whine about it being too hard and leave the servers filled with determined "RTM"s ... ok does the diaper fit ok? I didnt poke you with the safety pin did I? If i did I have a scooby doo bandaid and a sippie cup for you... and dun worry about the rash on your hinney, it will go away with some more pampering.
#62 Sep 29 2010 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
awwwwwwwww the game is hard, it will be ok... here, I got some tissues for you and a fresh new diaper. It is ok that some players are better and faster then you *pats back* You will get there someday or better yet, just got play WoW like all the other no talent kiddies :) This game takes thought, patience, and determination, and hopefully it will weed out the children that whine about it being too hard and leave the servers filled with determined "RTM"s ... ok does the diaper fit ok? I didnt poke you with the safety pin did I? If i did I have a scooby doo bandaid and a sippie cup for you... and dun worry about the rash on your hinney, it will go away with some more pampering.


You're clearly smarter than the rest of us, and you win at the internet.
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#63 Sep 29 2010 at 9:46 AM Rating: Default
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Sorry I started reading it and felt like some one did an Autobiography... You really should of bullet pointed it and cut half the crap out and the moaning.

I plan on doing everything to 10 so far I believe it is MUCH better then what FFXI had. Also it offers Leves for those who dont LIVE on this game and they have limited that bu 8 every 36 hrs is it? So us Weekend Hardcores cant live on it.

It offers EXP !!! this was a fantastic idea. Also on a failed one you get some skills and on a success you get even more for a reward. Now a hardcore gamer I am sure will be able to cap quickly but lets face it so could they before. The system is all new and early and frankly I am more impressed then disappointed.

Oh and one last thing "The game will die"???????????????????????????? LOLS!!!!!

I heard that about FFXI when it was first released and I also heard that about STO online and even though I quit STO after 3 months (including beta) it still is going strong.

Game will die? No chance. In fact FF14 I believe has been more successful then they saw coming and this is only the PRE ORDER bashing!.
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#64 Sep 29 2010 at 8:08 PM Rating: Decent
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#65 Sep 29 2010 at 8:38 PM Rating: Good
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The OP makes a lot of very good points and has provided some good, well thought out analysis. Yes, he has missed some pretty important elements of this as pointed out by previous posters but that does not negate the overall point of his article.

The only thing I would add though is...so what?

If I wanted to reach the cap ASAP and make millions of gil doing it - I would be very concerned about this harsh reality. But I dont want to do this. I want to go and kill mobs with my friends to level up. Then I want to use the drops to make myself armour and weapons - then repair it. Then Im going to level another DoW or DoM job, doing the same sort of thing. I want to have fun playing the game rather than fretting too much about how inefficient my levelling is.

The OP's concern is not really relevant to a player who just wants to have fun. Maybe it matters to him because he wants to be the ultimate player on the server, others dont treat the game like this (though it is, of course, the OPs choice how he wants to play).

As for not making money off of crafting. I am level 10 in a few crafts, am selling Cowls for 30k+ which cost me very little to craft (as i farm the mats) so I am certainly making a profit. Yes, I am annoyed as **** that there is no AH (which in my opinion is currently the biggest issue with the game) but I am happy just going about my merry way and playing.

Perhaps this game falls short for the serious hardcore who are very worried about not capping every job, but the system works fine for me. I also imagine that 400 per synth is likely to be a bit unders by the time we get to level 30+crafters. Unless the OP has got that high already?

Edited, Sep 29th 2010 10:41pm by HallieXIV
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#66 Sep 29 2010 at 8:47 PM Rating: Decent
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RufuSwho wrote:
Hyrist, ****** Superhero wrote:
Point in case to the above poster:

Me: "Wow the boards are really filled with complaining and negativity."

Wife: "That's what forum boards are for, dear."

Me: "Yah but this time it's really taken to an extreme."

Wife: "That's what you say every time, dear."

Most my in game friends, have their own local boards to use, and don't even touch things like ZAM. Do they complain about the glitches? Sure thing, but they're still playing and loving the game.


Hehe, I like your story. So familiar.

I'm pretty optimistic about the future for FFXIV. I think that chocobos are going to have some kind of pet/storage function. Maybe they will have 500 inventory slots and be summonable anywhere on the overworld map by a handful of grysal greens (which would stack to 99, please).

And, of course, moogles **** rainbows.


Wow best idea ever for Chocobos, god i hope you're right.
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#67 Sep 29 2010 at 9:15 PM Rating: Decent
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I sadly have faith that SE has teams of people that are alot smarter than any 1 of us who thinks they can figure it all out in 1 long forum topic. Of course there is problems, but man, what the ****, how about the simple problems people? How about Starting with the problem that WE CANT sort inventory, or we CANT target party members.
#68 Sep 29 2010 at 10:49 PM Rating: Decent
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There are already 3,214 threads on these issues - why start another!
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