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Is crafting even FUN?Follow

#1 Sep 28 2010 at 2:23 PM Rating: Good
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I agree with the school of thought that a game heavily focused on crafting needs an AH system or a well implemented bazaar search. There are plenty of topics about that, but the main point here is that crafting most certainly IS given a big focus in XIV. The disciplines are given specific attention by being their own classes, there are guildleves, etc.

Which leads me to this... is that what Final Fantasy is about anyway? Sitting around and making items??? I'm starting to think one of the fundamental flaws in the game is that crafting just isn't very fun, and it has been given quite a prominent role. I've played XI for 6+ years, I understand that there will always be some people who get some joy out of dealing with MMO economies and buying/selling stuff, whatever floats their boat is fine with me. But now XIV seems VERY crafting-heavy to the point where it's not just the domain of the people who really like it. Instead, it feels like it's really important for the average player to craft (so the obvious "just don't craft!" response doesn't address this flaw).

Lack of equipment and the ability to find it is one big issue, are we really intended to make it ourselves or deal with shady sellers without the natural market regulation that comes from a visible trading house? Or do all my friends have to specialize in different crafts with their game time to help each other out, instead of actually, ya know, doing something FUN?

And crafting in XIV is just the same boring and time consuming mini-game, ad infinitum. I don't pay $13 a month to sit and do a boring mini-game that's worse than garbage flash games. I want ADVENTURE dammit. Without a viable AH I sure as **** won't be able to just pay attention to the AH and grab appropriate gear with my non-crafting ways, like I did in FFXI. I'll be stuck either with woefully outdated gear, or spending all of my game time in retainer **** trying to find stuff to buy.

Some things like the skillup "exploit", "That target is already engaged" bug, and others seem like growing pains of a new MMO that will get ironed out. But the question of whether crafting is a fun way to spend my time in a game that seems to insist on crafting's importance is a much more fundamental issue that makes me very wary. Instituting an AH would go a long way to help, as it would allow me to ignore boring crafting and just buy my stuff. But this is still a pretty fundamental question of what this game is actually about and whether I like what it's about.
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#2 Sep 28 2010 at 2:28 PM Rating: Good
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crafting has a slow and complicated interface, and no repeat option when synthing (though I just hit enter to continue standard synth). Too much time is spent waiting to do something, which is not fun.
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#3 Sep 28 2010 at 2:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Crafting is my new Crack. I never really did it much in XI and now I cant wait for my next round of leves. I,ve already made lots of gear that required 0 skill and the mats where not hard to find at all. never looked on a retainer for anything so far. I'd say at least try it out first before you say its no fun or stuff is to hard to find. I never left out of ul'dah and still had everyting I needed.
#4 Sep 28 2010 at 2:35 PM Rating: Default
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IS CRAFTING EVER FUN?

thats goes for real world also, its not fun until the product is complete and u can use or sell. then its fun... its they same as in every mmo, just this one has mini games to help you craft, more labor intesive
#5 Sep 28 2010 at 2:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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In open beta I couldn't tolerate the lag in crafting but it's much much better now. I'm sure I'll become annoyed when I need to input 3+ items to synth, but so far the actual synthing mini-game is addictive.

I get my adventure gathering materials or fishing with the wandering Goobues and one-shotting Anglers. The zones are crazy huge, and while it does indeed suffer "copy-paste" syndrome, finding the unique/cool spot (and with nodes/fishing holes) are worth it!
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#6 Sep 28 2010 at 2:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Crafting and gathering is what I spent 90% of my game time doing and I love it. I find it a lot more interesting than the battle classes.

I have almost all of the crafting classes to around level 10 and apart from things like class weapons and muddy water I have not spent any gil on anything. I can essentially create any item I want for my battle classes without ever having to buy from another crafter, and I always have tons of money.

The crafting system in this game is superior to other MMOs in my opinion. You actually feel like you're doing something and you get more return on stuff you actually bother to do. In other games it's just clicking a button and poof you have a product which may or may not actually be useful.

So yes crafting is fun, if not the main point of the game right now. Until they start with the big content updates, I find it pointless to level a battle class right now.
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#7 Sep 28 2010 at 2:45 PM Rating: Good
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I agree I was super psyched and rushed Alchemist to 16, and now I just find that it's not fun at all. I made things leveling up with ease, then I hit rank 16, go back and make the same thing and fail? That is not right at all. This game just has the problem with things differ so much from each other. It's the same with combat, Fight A, 85% hits Fight B 15% hits. I play pretty casual now hoping to see some good patches on the horizon.
#8 Sep 28 2010 at 2:46 PM Rating: Good
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Anza wrote:

And crafting in XIV is just the same boring and time consuming mini-game, ad infinitum. I don't pay $13 a month to sit and do a boring mini-game that's worse than garbage flash games. I want ADVENTURE dammit.


Bingo. Rated you up, would continue to rate you up every day if I could.
This is the whole problem described, in 4 words.

Edit: Grats to the crafting addicts rating everyone down. Think about it, how many uber craftsmen did you know in FFXI? Everyone in your shell had a craft to 100+, did they?
Not everyone likes crafting. I personally, dug and mined my way to 40ish JC and 32 cooking iirc, but, man, I supplied raw material to the markets. Just check my ffxiah (or my mule Vorkswagon) to see what I sold on an everyday basis. A well-rounded mmo supplies a variety of activities for everyone.

Edited, Sep 28th 2010 4:57pm by Vorkosigan

Edited, Sep 28th 2010 5:09pm by Vorkosigan
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#9 Sep 28 2010 at 2:53 PM Rating: Decent
If you don't like minigames, then no, don't bother crafting, there are plenty of people making supplies to buy, get to know crafters in each particular area and work with them.

There are plenty of crafters that actually enjoy the new system that would love to take your gil and serve as your dedicated crafter (goodness knows crafters are going to want repeat customers till some more organized market system comes out.)

Personally I enjoy the gathering games more, but considering how crafting, gathering, and what not all works towards your physical level, it's both enjoyable and most importantly, FAIR that there had to be some involvement in crafting and gathering instead of "Go to point, queue RNG, get item/exp."
#10 Sep 28 2010 at 2:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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First of all, I loved crafting in FFXI. I also had a friend irl, and several in game, who also loved crafting.

Anyways... I do like the crafting system in XIV so far. It's still taking shape though, I noticed many items are still either unused, or used for very little. Obviously the game is not out in full yet. Not to mention the lack of an AH/search which will likely come later. That's all fine though, give it time, and if you don't have patients, go do something else for a few months.

Even just in the past few days I've seen the economy taking shape though, and it hasn't even released to the masses yet with the standard edition of the game... But you'll notice that people are starting to grasp what the value of things are, gear is starting to be readily found in bazaars for competitive(yet still fairly high) prices, and more and more people are getting crafts leveled. You'll notice as time goes on, this will continue until the economy settles, and at that point, SE will likely add the market ward search or AH or w/e they have in mind. Then the side crafts aspect won't be much of an issue.

Yes the crafts are all interdependent, but since it's not a one player game, you are able to rely on others to aid with that. It's just a little rough now, for 3 main reasons. No AH/search, people are still in the process of leveling, so the items they are in need of change as fast as they can get their hands on them, and of course, people are still settling down into groups, making friends, etc. Companies aren't even out yet, nor is like, loads of other major features/recipes/areas/who-knows-what-else. The crafting does seem to be a pretty well thought out system though, it just needs some time to develop is all. That's really what it boils down to. And once the game does develop a little, yes, you will be able to go through the game with no crafts... You will probably have to farm though, and then rely on other people to craft, just like in FFXI. I'd suggest at least doing a minimum amount of crafting via the local leves at least.

The side crafts needed to fuel a main craft won't be as big a deal in a couple weeks. As of now, it's hard to find anything. Later, once people know what is in demand, all the junk in bazaars will be replaced with mostly decent things. Repairs will be fine, because you can seek them in your bazaar, and as loads more people get crafts sorted out, it will become easy to get things fixed pretty much anywhere... Especially if you offer more than 1g...(at least compete with what npc's would charge you.)

Lastly, more content will come along, and then there will be more to do. Right now, yes, SE has placed an extremely high priority on crafting for the day 1 players, because without lots of crafters on the front lines, the economy will suffer later. Again, if you're not comfortable with this, play less, or shelf the game for a couple months. Pretty much, from now until the PS3 launch is like the prep phase for the rest of the games lifespan. I personally want to get in on the early days, but if you don't that's fine... Most people don't play mmos from day 1 til a decade later anyway, so don't feel bad if you wanna hold off until later to really get into the game. Or maybe it's just not the right game for you. I see far more potential in this game than any other on the market, so I'm definitely stickin' around, but whether or not you share that view is your own choice. At any rate, I'm enjoying the crafts a lot. ;3
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#11 Sep 28 2010 at 3:20 PM Rating: Excellent
Yes
#12 Sep 28 2010 at 3:24 PM Rating: Decent
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The Glorious SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
Yes


Agreed.

Not as good as in Vanguard, but it seems they had a good look at it. I like to do more then push a button to create items.
#13 Sep 28 2010 at 3:31 PM Rating: Good
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Yes +1
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#14 Sep 28 2010 at 3:31 PM Rating: Decent
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I love crafting in this game and now I turn your question back on you:

Is killing monsters FUN?
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Different strokes for different folks. The crafting "game" is pretty advanced and complex, because it's meant to provide entertainment to a different player type. Read a bit about the Bartle Types if you never heard of them.
If you don't like crafting, skip it and live without the perks.
If you like crafting, go ahead and enjoy it.
If you want the perks of being a high level crafter but can't find enjoyment doing it then grin and bear with it, friend.
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#15 Sep 28 2010 at 3:39 PM Rating: Decent
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I find it fun so far. I don't have the option of just clicking the same thing over and over (unless I'm doing a synth well below my level.) Although honestly, I just play rock paper scissors while crafting.. but with only 2 options. But I love rock paper scissors! :3

Personally, I feel like gathering is going to become less fun faster. I want more than 3 slightly, slightly different versions of hot and cold.
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#16 Sep 28 2010 at 3:39 PM Rating: Good
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Personally, I like what they implemented into the FFXIV crafting.

Before, in FFXI, It was just: use the appropriate crystal, put your ingredients in, click-and-pray and hope you don't bust. I'm sure there are plenty of high-end crafters who have lost a Khroma Ore or a Behemoth's hide due to a failed synth. (not that it matters now that Abyssea have screwed up the market for those items)

Now, in FFXIV, we have a main tool and a sub tool to equip to start a craft and the mini-game feels as if I have MORE CONTROL on the outcome of my synth. Not saying that I haven't botched a synth in only 3 tries, but at least the illusion that I have some control on the outcome, is there.

Is it fun? That depends on you. I like Adventure just as much as the next player, but I also like the fact we can gain some exp for our physical level by doing a past time that helps us earn Gil.
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#17 Sep 28 2010 at 3:40 PM Rating: Decent
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I think crafting is fun but like everything else could use improvements. Like a repeat function
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#18 Sep 28 2010 at 3:55 PM Rating: Excellent
Docent42 wrote:
I love crafting in this game and now I turn your question back on you:

Is killing monsters FUN?
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Different strokes for different folks. The crafting "game" is pretty advanced and complex, because it's meant to provide entertainment to a different player type. Read a bit about the Bartle Types if you never heard of them.
If you don't like crafting, skip it and live without the perks.
If you like crafting, go ahead and enjoy it.
If you want the perks of being a high level crafter but can't find enjoyment doing it then grin and bear with it, friend.


I've never taken the Bartle test before but it is interesting. Apparently, I'm an Explorer/Socializer Smiley: lol
#19 Sep 28 2010 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
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Forgive my faux pas, don't have much time right now so I am not reading everyone else's posts...

But the other day I made several bronze raising hammers, I had made every aspect of these items, the nails, the heads and the ash hammer grips.

It felt pretty cool.

now if only I could make some blacksmithing hammers...
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#20 Sep 28 2010 at 4:20 PM Rating: Good
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Just some added comments on crafting.. i know many of us are crafting and may have even rushed to level 16 or so. In doing this we may not even still understand the basics of crafting. The key is to pay attention to the colors. Now i cant guarantee exactly what all the colors do.. but the one thing known is that if you have a fluctuating color.. you wait. When you wait it has the ability to "Stabilize" the color. Otherwise there is a hight chance of a Critical fail. And that takes a large chunk out of your durability. Following this simple rule i rarely ever fail a synth at the proper level. Your can hit the wait command up to four times to stabilize the color.
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#21 Sep 28 2010 at 4:25 PM Rating: Good
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Crafting on the whole isn't about being fun, it's about providing a service to you, your friends, and your linkshell come end game. First and foremost, in the case of most MMO's it's about making money. Crafting being fun or not is up to each person to determine, but you certainly do not need to craft in any game (well, maybe in Basket Weaver Online) :)

The problem is two parts. Part one being that everyone seemingly faces is gimpy gear that they desperately want to replace, but with no AH they cannot do so easily. Part two is that the game is brand new so there is no viable way to obtain these items easily. It's up to each person to either craft, browse every retainer available or just keep plugging away. Level up the other classes, grind the current class with the current gear, etc.

You certainly don't have to craft though, adventure will come in due time. The game is still too new and the players are still doing their own thing - learning the in's and out's and what not. In time there will be an organized economy in some fashion, be it with an AH, or retainer search, or players with properly titled retainers, or something even better.

Just give it time, how long I really can't say, but I would feel safe assuming that at the earliest - after the standard edition players swarm the servers, or at the latest - when the PS3 version hits.
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#22 Sep 28 2010 at 4:35 PM Rating: Good
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Yes crafting is fun, but it's a lot of work.
#23 Sep 28 2010 at 4:41 PM Rating: Good
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jtully wrote:
Just some added comments on crafting.. i know many of us are crafting and may have even rushed to level 16 or so. In doing this we may not even still understand the basics of crafting. The key is to pay attention to the colors. Now i cant guarantee exactly what all the colors do.. but the one thing known is that if you have a fluctuating color.. you wait. When you wait it has the ability to "Stabilize" the color. Otherwise there is a hight chance of a Critical fail. And that takes a large chunk out of your durability. Following this simple rule i rarely ever fail a synth at the proper level. Your can hit the wait command up to four times to stabilize the color.


I have heard so many different people say "when it is doing this do this because of this..." I have never seen a critical failure on fluctuating colors (i have a tendency to pull critical failures on plain white orbs with standard... go figure.)

I personally wait when the orb is solid red, But i've seen people plowing through regardless...

Unless I am severely underleveled there are few synths I can't finish... which I consider to be somewhat amazing as a blacksmith rank 13 with my weathered corss-pein hammer... My friend could barely finish any synths from 1-13 as armorer until i made him a bronze raising hammer, now he almost never fails.

Though I have no idea what his process is I just know that whenever I complain about standard being *** he defends it.

Until SE comes out and tells us what everything means we're kinda in the dark. unless people out there are willing to break tons of stuff to get an accurate test pool for things.
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#24 Sep 28 2010 at 4:58 PM Rating: Decent
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It isn't fun to me and neither is gathering. They're both too much like doing real work.
It will pay off to be just maining DoW/DoM soon though. With the amount of crafters the game currently has, as soon as they hit 15+ they'll be needing materials from mobs that require well levelled DoW. Then you and I can go back to the old tried formula of killing stuff, selling loot to crafters and buying new gear.
Also crafting is by no means necessary in this game, once you break out of 15 and people who are not dedicated to crafting will realise that crafting is not some shortcut to levelling nor is it fast/cheap, they'll have a spread of level 10 DoH that serve no further purpose. The primary reason they probably began crafting is to create weapons and armor for their level 10 DoW, which is a market that is already become flooded.
Guildleves provide enough armor pieces to keep you geared, the only shortcoming is lack of weapons, luckily some DoW's have high level weapons available from the NPC.

Edited, Sep 28th 2010 6:59pm by sylph19
#25 Sep 28 2010 at 5:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Docent42 wrote:
I love crafting in this game and now I turn your question back on you:

Is killing monsters FUN?
---

Different strokes for different folks. The crafting "game" is pretty advanced and complex, because it's meant to provide entertainment to a different player type. Read a bit about the Bartle Types if you never heard of them.
If you don't like crafting, skip it and live without the perks.
If you like crafting, go ahead and enjoy it.
If you want the perks of being a high level crafter but can't find enjoyment doing it then grin and bear with it, friend.


Bartle Types are irrelevant - an MMO should cater to all types, not just the ones who like fiddling with items in an MMO economy. Forcing players who don't like crafting to do it anyway to get items they'll want to better experience the majority of the game content seems like a problem to me (looking longer range than just fumbling through the first 10-20 levels here). And let's be honest, without a good system to buy items in place, players really are forced to choose between crafting or accepting a massive waste of time to find items.

Yes, I do think killing monsters and actually running across the huge land of Eorzea is FUN. Much more fun than huddling in a town and playing the same minigame for hours is (and for what it's worth, I DO like fishing... but that's largely because I get to explore a bit to find fishing spots and see the land more than if I'm just sitting at a guild or aetherite fumbling in menus). I understand some people might prefer crafting to actually partying up, solo killing stuff, taking missions or non-crafting levequests, etc. I also think that those people who prefer crafting are likely to be the minority.

I don't begrudge anyone else for enjoying crafting, but I personally don't like it. I don't think it has much to do with the sense of adventure and exploration that makes FF, well, FF (and this is from the perspective of a longtime XI player too, so don't assume I'm some single player only FF fan who just can't adjust to an MMO). I actually LOVE that other people do like crafting, but I love it so I can be their customer and not have to do it myself. Basic economics, if I'd rather pay you to do something and not take my own time to do it, that's why a transaction takes place. But if it's a painful and unorganized process to find people so I can execute that transaction... big problem.

So yes, your comment is true in that if I don't like crafting I can skip it and live without the perks. And in fact, the real decision for me whether missing out on those perks (which may end up being functional necessities to perform well) makes me prefer leaving the game altogether.

BTW, it's gonna be pretty irritating even to crafters when you need multiple crafts leveled to make what you need. A high level armorer might not be into doing the same grind to also level weaving and carpentry. You may be having fun with crafting a week into the game, but thinking about the potential perils the way it is now makes me very nervous about the future sustainability of the system. Of course, a good AH or retainer search system sure would help. I hope S-E realizes this instead of cutting off their nose to spite their face in a misguided effort to fight RMT.
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#26 Sep 28 2010 at 6:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Of course, a good AH or retainer search system sure would help. I hope S-E realizes this instead of cutting off their nose to spite their face in a misguided effort to fight RMT.


This I do agree with. SE has a history of solving problems with a shotgun in the middle of the street in broad daylight when they could have been handled much better with a switchblade in a dark alley.
#27 Sep 28 2010 at 7:20 PM Rating: Default
I enjoy crafting. If you don't enjoy it, don't do it. Figure out how to make gil in a way that you enjoy and buy from other players if you don't want to make your own.
#28 Sep 28 2010 at 7:42 PM Rating: Good
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crafting would of been fun in this game if they clean up the interface a bit instead of making it so tedious, the problem is not the crafting the problem is getting to the crafting cut all the rest of the garbage out the game is slow as it is.
#29 Sep 28 2010 at 7:44 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
I enjoy crafting. If you don't enjoy it, don't do it. Figure out how to make gil in a way that you enjoy and buy from other players if you don't want to make your own.


I know my posts may have been TL;DR... but you're missing the entire point I'm making. Buying from other players is too **** hard in the state the game is in, making it a practical necessity to learn to do some crafting yourself even if you don't enjoy it. Your only alternative is a massive waste of time digging through bazaars and retainers. Neither is a good option for people who don't enjoy crafting.

Even selling raw materials to other players is an issue with this system, so if you're not making your gil through quest rewards and NPCing items you run into that issue too.
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#30 Sep 28 2010 at 7:59 PM Rating: Good
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(Didn't read every post after the OP, but it's simple..)

Once they finally add a well made auction house a solution to the boring crafting will be to just sell all your loot on auction and never level a crafting job if you hate it. (Which i'm sure a lot of people do) Crafting would turn into a much better way to make gil due to high demand low supply, but people who hate doing it would have a lot more fun.
#31 Sep 28 2010 at 8:07 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't think it's fun, which is why I don't do it.

Cheers to the people that do enjoy it, though. Whatever floats your boat...

Edited, Sep 28th 2010 10:08pm by BrokenFox
#32 Sep 28 2010 at 9:18 PM Rating: Decent
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I find it so incredibly frustrating but I really enjoy it.

It is fun because of the way it makes you feel. SPending hours farming materials for a new robe only to fail the synth made me want to uninstall the game and never play again.

Instead I farmed again and second time I succeeded with the synth - i was so happy :-)

Any process that engages you in the game and makes you feel real emotions has to be good right! I love crafting right now - tomorrow, I might hate it again.
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