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#52 Sep 29 2010 at 10:19 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm sorry, but how can it be better than an AH system.


Because a) you can set your retainer to buy things instead of just selling them, and b) you can look for repairs for your equipment.

It's essentially an AH system called the Marketplace with at least these 2 additional features, and more can be implemented later.

Edited, Sep 29th 2010 4:20pm by Hyanmen
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#53 Sep 29 2010 at 10:20 AM Rating: Default
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:


I get what they had in mind. Thinking in terms of a true marketplace, you have dozens of vendors peddling wares, haggling, trading. Marketplaces in countries all over the world from Mexico to Morocco to India to Japan are gathering places for trading, bartering, and most importantly: fellowship and socializing. In theory, this is a great idea that could make a game great.

The problem is, this idea only works in the real world because you're buying from and selling to ACTUAL people. Once you replace actual people with NPC retainers, you take away everything that makes real marketplaces good. There's no bartering, there's no socializing or dealing, it's not really any different from if you were purchasing from a generic NPC, except the NPCs prices and wares are random, and there are about a thousand or so in one tiny room.



EXACTLY.


I was thinking while browsing the retainers, like I was in a swap meet. Except for the fact that I couldn't see the wares and I couldn't haggle and I couldn't see 20ft in front of me.

As it stands I make way more money /shouting in town (like a real bazzar) and sell crystals for crafters. Its immediate, they know me, and I make money.

The retainers as they stand are unglorified mog houses.
#54 Sep 29 2010 at 10:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
-At best-, the current system can only ever hope to become "almost as good" as what an AH could be.


I disagree. The Marketplace does not differ from an AH as much as people think. All they need to do is make you able to search and buy items from afar, and it'll become a better system than AH was, although there would be a lot of dev time wasted.

But that's something you can't really help.


So what is the difference between:

- List item on AH, player looks on AH, finds item, buys item.
- Give item to retainer, player searches retainer,m finds item, buys item.

They're the same thing, except that the second uses server resources for NPCs holding items and searches a bunch of NPCs whereas the first one just lists items in a repository and then searches that.
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#55 Sep 29 2010 at 10:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
-At best-, the current system can only ever hope to become "almost as good" as what an AH could be.


I disagree. The Marketplace does not differ from an AH as much as people think. All they need to do is make you able to search and buy items from afar, and it'll become a better system than AH was, although there would be a lot of dev time wasted.

But that's something you can't really help.


So what is the difference between:

- List item on AH, player looks on AH, finds item, buys item.
- Give item to retainer, player searches retainer,m finds item, buys item.

They're the same thing, except that the second uses server resources for NPCs holding items and searches a bunch of NPCs whereas the first one just lists items in a repository and then searches that.


Maybe I'm misinterpreting your post but are you saying Auction Houses doesn't use server resources?
#56 Sep 29 2010 at 10:27 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
So what is the difference between:


Nothing, lol. I'm just saying they might as well make this feature into an AH instead of scrapping it and implementing an XI AH. That would be even more of a waste of dev time than it already is.

Quote:
They're the same thing, except that the second uses server resources for NPCs holding items


Well, it would be there using server resources regardless. They're pretty much like moogles.
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#57 Sep 29 2010 at 10:32 AM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
what they really need to do is to just put the **** thing out of its misery and start over. (Sidenote: I am not advocating doing this with an -actual- child.)


Oh man, I can't read your posts at work without risking busting out laughing in my cubicle. This had me doubled over.
I suspect the other people at work assume I'm not working when I'm happy.

#58 Sep 29 2010 at 10:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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I've been thinking about this for weeks, and I think I understand what their thoughts are on this. Take a look at EVE Online's marketplace. Boiled down, EVE's players all have a bazaar just like we do here. You can set up buy and sell orders on any of the stations in any system within the game. It's not an Auction House. Further, EVE also has an economy where every item in game is created by the players. Just like we do here. When you buy something in EVE that item isn't just put into your inventory where-ever you are, rather it's placed into your hanger on the same station it was sold from so you have to go get it. Everything that I'm seeing about this system is very similar to what they've done with EVE. And honestly, I am happy about that seeing as how EVE has *the* best economy of any MMO out there.

The difference between what we have and what they have is this: TOOLS. A system like this does not work without them. A search is the first and most important thing to have. Just like EVE, when you search it should list all of that item being sold, what city they are being sold at (like the "distance" in EVE), how many of that item, and at what price. Further those searches should be sortable by price, distance, etc, yet still should like all items being sold, not just the lowest (as you would have on an AH). Looking for an item, but don't want to travel from LL to Ul'Dah? Except the lowest price you can find in LL, even if it's twice as cheap in Ul'Dah. Someone wanting an item and is willing to pay a higher price in Ul'dah? Buy it in LL and travel to Ul'dah like a real merchant would. This is a system that works much better than an auction house. We just need the TOOLS to make it work right.

I do hope and pray that this is the direction that SE is wanting to take. It'll take time though. But really, time is what we all have. It's not like we only have as certain amount of time to play the game.
#59 Sep 29 2010 at 10:39 AM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
What's the point though? Like I said, I'm well aware they're going to waste time, money, and resources trying to "fix it". I'm sure they probably will add a search function, eventually. And it will be terrible at first and they'll improve it little by little, making it slightly less bad each time.


The only point that I can see is that it would be quicker than putting in an auction house and while it may not have all the advantages of an AH it would come close enough. How do you know it's going to be terrible? If you have a time machine or can see into the future somehow I want in on the secret.


Quote:
My point is: Why waste all this time and energy trying to fix a system that, at best, can still never be as good as an AH, when what they really need to be focusing their efforts on is an AH?


Like I said above the only reason I can think of(and accept) is that it takes far less time to put a search in for the current system. If both take an equal amount of time... well, beats me.


Quote:
Again, I doubt this will stop them though. The next few months -WILL- be spent wasting their time trying to "fix it", until they finally wise up.


Seems like it... Does anyone know how many months it took them to put in the AH in FFXI from the Japanese release date?
#60 Sep 29 2010 at 10:43 AM Rating: Decent
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this may help a bit. a guy selling 10 swords is going to put his retainer in the weapons ward. the downside is that the guy with 1 sword to sell, and 9 stacks of random crap will be standing right next to him.
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#61 Sep 29 2010 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
All they need to do is make you able to search and buy items from afar, and it'll become a better system


As long as the searching/buying is tied to in game locations I agree. I would be very ok with a system where upon visiting an NPC in a camp or city, you could then search for an item. If the item was located in another part of the world, you would pay a delivery fee, based on distance in addition to the cost of the item. Maybe even a handling fee if you expect your goods to be delivered to a camp in the middle of nowhere that's surrounded by dragons.

Whether the search works through an AH, or is a search of current retainer listings doesn't matter to me one bit. I actually think the idea of retainers, combined with delivery fees is an interesting concept. It creates an economy where goods are cheap in the place they are foraged for/created from local raw materials, and drives up the prices of getting those goods at a great distance away.


Edited, Sep 29th 2010 12:48pm by NayliaMR
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#62 Sep 29 2010 at 10:50 AM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Mikhalia: It's like they designed a car with square wheels made of concrete and they're telling us "We sanded the edges down a bit".


I, in the feedback forum wrote:
Agreed. It's like SE made us a cart with square wheels. Sure, it'll probably still get us somewhere if we push it hard enough, but it's going to be a miserable experience.


GET OUT OF MA HEAD!! Smiley: mad
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#63 Sep 29 2010 at 11:06 AM Rating: Good
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Jennestia wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
-At best-, the current system can only ever hope to become "almost as good" as what an AH could be.


I disagree. The Marketplace does not differ from an AH as much as people think. All they need to do is make you able to search and buy items from afar, and it'll become a better system than AH was, although there would be a lot of dev time wasted.

But that's something you can't really help.


So what is the difference between:

- List item on AH, player looks on AH, finds item, buys item.
- Give item to retainer, player searches retainer,m finds item, buys item.

They're the same thing, except that the second uses server resources for NPCs holding items and searches a bunch of NPCs whereas the first one just lists items in a repository and then searches that.


Maybe I'm misinterpreting your post but are you saying Auction Houses doesn't use server resources?


No, they both use server resources. The only difference is that one uses them for NPCs holding items and one would only need to use them for the items. They'd still both need to use server resources, obviously.
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#64 Sep 29 2010 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
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NayliaMR wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
All they need to do is make you able to search and buy items from afar, and it'll become a better system


As long as the searching/buying is tied to in game locations I agree. I would be very ok with a system where upon visiting an NPC in a camp or city, you could then search for an item. If the item was located in another part of the world, you would pay a delivery fee, based on distance in addition to the cost of the item. Maybe even a handling fee if you expect your goods to be delivered to a camp in the middle of nowhere that's surrounded by dragons.

Whether the search works through an AH, or is a search of current retainer listings doesn't matter to me one bit. I actually think the idea of retainers, combined with delivery fees is an interesting concept. It creates an economy where goods are cheap in the place they are foraged for/created from local raw materials, and drives up the prices of getting those goods at a great distance away.


Edited, Sep 29th 2010 12:48pm by NayliaMR


Perhaps it's not as convenient as a traditional AH, but I wouldn't be opposed to such a system, really.

My main concern is, if I decide I want a given item, it should take no more than 2-3 minutes to figure out:

1) Is it being sold?
2) How much is it?
3) How many are being sold?

If I decide I want to sell a given item, it should take no more than 2-3 minutes to:

1) Figure out how many are for sale now.
2) Figure out what the ones on sale now are selling for.
3) Actually list my item for sale so that others can see it.

Without regard to "delivery fees" and "taxes" and needing to go get the item from somewhere else and such, if I can do all of that, then I'm a happy panda.
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#65 Sep 29 2010 at 11:25 AM Rating: Default
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SE, no one ******* cares. Make an Auction House already. I played FFXI for 5 years and was looking forward to this game, but right now I feel like I got ****** out of 80 bucks.
#66 Sep 29 2010 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
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Providing this functions the way it sounds like it will function, here is my problem...

Let's say i head off to make my shopping run and I've got numerous things on the list (as i typically do). I'm interested in buying some consumables, crafting materials for the profession(s) that I'm leveling, gear upgrades for my primary class, and i would also like to sell some of my finished crafted items and a bunch of random crap that I've found while harvesting and killing mobs.

With an AH system, i go to the AH, search for all of the things I'm interested in buying/selling, make my purchases, list my goods, run to my mailbox and pick everything up. My time investment here is basically however long i spent browsing + maybe a couple of minutes actually clicking the buy/sell buttons and running to my mailbox.

With the retainer system i might be able to perform my searches in the same amount of time that i could on an AH, but that couple of minutes required to buy/sell and pick up my items just turned into a serious time commitment.

I could end up visiting a half dozen different retainers in as many different wards just trying to track down the stuff that i want to purchase, and then i have to go seek out my own retainer(s) and hopefully he/she/they will be in wards that I'm already going to, but that isn't guaranteed to be the case. Basically, I'm running all over the damned place going through multiple loading screens dealing with lag and waiting for NPCs to materialize on my screen b/c there are so many in such a small area that they won't all load at once, and all of this hassle just to do the same tasks that could be accomplished with a few button clicks and one trip to a mail box with an AH system.

And what happens if you browse for an item and then somebody else buys it before you can track down the proper retainer and purchase the item. Is there going to be any kind of system in place to prevent that kind of disappointment and waste of time?

Going to the market wards isn't going to be any kind of shopping experience. You are going to do all of your actual shopping on an AH-style searchable list and then the physical trip through the market wards is just going to be the laggy chore of trying to track down the items that you have decided to purchase that makes you want to smash your face through the monitor.

In the spirit of this great new market ward system, the next time i buy something off Ebay or Amazon, rather than getting them to send it 2-day UPS/FedEx, i think I'll just hitch up my horse and buggy and make the trip from Charleston, SC to Whereeverthehell, USA to pick it up myself.


Edited, Sep 29th 2010 3:34pm by Izuul
#67 Sep 29 2010 at 1:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's shocking they haven't even mentioned the #1 thing that makes other vendor systems work: vendor description.

A simple "Carpentry mats for Sale!" or "Just Junk I farmed killing rats" to "Bronze Spear: 150k" when you target the vendor would eliminate 99% of the wasted time a player goes through while trying to find something in the wards.

Sometime I wonder if the FF devs even play MMOs or if they're stuck in their own little world trying to innovate things that were solved many years ago.

And this ward classification won't work anyway because of the technical limitation. At least on a high pop server like Besaid, only a small fraction of the retainers show up because the game won't display more ~20 people at once, and there are hundreds in each room. And if they're going to give players MORE retainers, the problem will only become exponentially worse.

Right now i ignore the wards altogether and only buy from players parked in town, or people yelling. Pretty soon, it's just going to be a constant stream of YELL messages spamming the towns like a trade chat.
#68 Sep 29 2010 at 2:33 PM Rating: Decent
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I wonder if I am the only one that actually prefers the ward system over an AH -.-. I'm sorry but the AH system in FFXI, WoW, and in many other games is to me one of the biggest issues plagueing MMORPGs today, at least from a social market stand point. Its too simplified, has no social value; a mere tool that simplifies peoples ability to sell and buy to the point that they don't even care for the item they buy or sell. Just point/click and run off in hopes it will sell for the price listed. Is the current market ward system perfect? **** no! it lacks features/stability (UI Lag etc.) and is overall an organizational mess. The things they talked about implementing will help alleviate these issues.

They get these things into place -
1. Demand search for items you don't actually have (biggest, most pronounced plus to a market system is the ability to demand items, you can't do this with a consolidated AH system that all the world can see. Same thing with repairing. As a crafter I goto the wards all the time to see if someone needs items repaired through a retainer)
2. The ability to search outside the wards but still have to either go get the item or tell the retainer to go buy it.
2.b if not the above, at least allow us to do a local search while we are within a particular ward and categorize based on item type to still keep the illusion of a barrage of items.
3. A Mail System which allows people to recieve stuff from other people/crafters without needing to go to a retainer to get it, thus taking the retainer out of the market system.

They get those in place along with the ward changes listed above. I think the economy will fourish and be just fine. Those demanding an AH need to think outside of the box and see that the system CAN work, the fact of the matter is it just doesn't right now. I personally hate the all in one, globally consolidated AH system. It adds nothing to the game other then convenience and limits other things like the repair and demand system from taking place properly. They also need to make a global trade channel in the near future too so shouts aren't the only means of communication.

This game has a lot of problems, the wards being one of them, but the wards with the right features can work, and imo work significantly better (from a community point of view) better then an AH could ever serve.
#69 Sep 29 2010 at 2:40 PM Rating: Default
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SE put in AH in now and stop worrying about RMT so much. I'm not condoning it, but ALL successful MMO's out there also have successful RMT. To think Blizzard made a (much) more popular MMO than Square-Enix's FFXI is troubling enough.
Yes SE, this fact sucks, but move with it. Try reading "who moved my cheese."
#70 Sep 29 2010 at 2:48 PM Rating: Default
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All I am understanding of this is going to be a time sink.

My thinking is that they want you to sort your retainers by area specific to certain items, right?

Then they want to have a search function as well, correct?

To avoid 'being like an auction house' which is what they want to do, I can only assume you would go to each area and search that specific area for certain items.

What would happen if you needed multiple items from different areas?

I think it would make it like having multiple auction houses to waste more time rather than just have ONE auction house like everyone wants.
#71 Sep 29 2010 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
All I am understanding of this is going to be a time sink.

My thinking is that they want you to sort your retainers by area specific to certain items, right?

Then they want to have a search function as well, correct?

To avoid 'being like an auction house' which is what they want to do, I can only assume you would go to each area and search that specific area for certain items.

What would happen if you needed multiple items from different areas?

I think it would make it like having multiple auction houses to waste more time rather than just have ONE auction house like everyone wants.


I guess I'm not 'everyone' Its a timesink to you, but to me its a game. Playing the market and working on what sells, the player goes out and tries to find either the specific item they want or... "hey I just found some cool I'll buy it!". You make an all in one AH, it shrinks the economy and money making oppurtunities to a single point, a point that can be easily manipulated by a single individual or group (not JUST RMT). It also brings about one of the biggest problems in MMORPG landscape to the front... item inflation. You make all the items in one place, you get items that come and go with the fad tide. A persons money making oppurtunity could be destroyed over night due to item inflation vs demand. At least with a market system you can mask the degree of the inflation and make it more up to the 'patience' of a prospective buyer to add a little twist to the price wars. That same 'patience' is also something a good crafter/seller will need to learn in a market ward system.

There are a ton of games out there with a market system, and with the right features they are easily the better overall global economy mechanism you can use, but it takes a certain mentality from the community/player in order to run it properly. Like someone else said, Eve is probably the biggest claim to that. Its got such a well running Economy they have real life researchers monitoring it for behavioral patterns to mimick in real life.
#72 Sep 29 2010 at 3:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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bwuk wrote:
So then, what is the value of the market wards?


The value of market wards is that crafts are classes in themselves. Just like much of the game for DoW/DoM classes is joining parties to fight mobs, much of the game for crafters will be creating connections and trading with other crafters. If an auction house is created, many people will just run the the AH instead of seeking out a skilled crafter and crafting will just become a grind to level up and sell on the AH. SE did not withhold the AH because they were too lazy to implement it or to combat RMT, but to make crafting socially viable.
#73 Sep 29 2010 at 3:16 PM Rating: Decent
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"It's a time sink to you but to me its a game"

A game is a time sink and many areas of this game such that this one in particular are a very large time sink.

A time sink is something that takes up time. You understand that right?

Here is something a lot of people are seeming to miss. Everyone talks about this "patience" **** and how this game is so different because it requires this "patience" **** everyone talks about. People are not saying "This games requires a lot of time to do anything". Instead, they call it "patience". People aren't enjoying this game because it is frustrating and takes a lot of time.

The problem is this; this game was meant to be for casual players, read up on it. Any successful mmo is meant to be engaging. This means that I can come home from work, school, errands or whatever else and hop on and GET THINGS DONE. Throw this patience crap out the window. Really. I don't log on to be "patient". I log on to play this game. Just like a lot of other people. That's why people are complaining about these flawed systems and why they don't enjoy this game because it is too timely and frustrating. People want simplicity to get things done and enjoy their experience.
#74 Sep 29 2010 at 3:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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The value of market wards is that crafts are classes in themselves. Just like much of the game for DoW/DoM classes is joining parties to fight mobs, much of the game for crafters will be creating connections and trading with other crafters. If an auction house is created, many people will just run the the AH instead of seeking out a skilled crafter and crafting will just become a grind to level up and sell on the AH. SE did not withhold the AH because they were too lazy to implement it or to combat RMT, but to make crafting socially viable.


This ^

Seriously people do you not see this system wasn't an RMT blocking mechanism? It's not finished (Paid Beta 5 instead of retail!) but the ground work is set to make an incredible crafting community it just takes patience an open mind. This fact is further repeated when you find out that NM and HNM drops don't drop equipment, they drop crafting items which you then need to either sell to a crafter, or work with a crafter to get made. Do I expect everyone to like this system? No! But that is the system they intend to make and I think people just don't seem to understand this fact. An AH would destroy the HELM classes and Crafting Classes at least to the point of marginalizing them to mere tools rather then actual classes that dabble in the community with the same complexity and neccesity as the classes that fight monsters. Same with HELM classes. You make a centralized market system, you risk the flood of crafting mats and marginalize the neccesity of leveling a Land Class to nothing more then a tool for your 'grander' adventures.
#75 Sep 29 2010 at 4:13 PM Rating: Decent
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ok i finaly found how to get to the market and pick 1 out of 10 wards to go in and all i can say its a mess... retainers standing evrywhere and only seeing about 10 retainers at a time... and have to move to see more, i feel this will take hours to find even one item im looking for, i rather have the AH back then look thru all of them...
#76 Sep 29 2010 at 4:54 PM Rating: Decent
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The fundamental point is that it really doesn't matter what a system is called, how it exactly works, or if it is better than the rest but it does mater whether you can get what you want in a timely and logical manner.

If I am going to start a craft, lets say blacksmithing, the first place I'm going to look is the BS Guild for all my needs. Tools, leve's, recipes, tutorials, and mats. I grab the proper tools, I find the proper recipes and initiate the proper leves, but now I need to find mats to follow through. Being that most mats are cheaper from players over NPCs I would rather search the Blacksmith Ward for items, but the problem of lengthy searches, invisible retainers (due to overcrowding), and hundreds of bazaars to choose from still remain. This could easily be solved by having an NPC in the BS Guild that had a search-able inventory of all items located in the BS ward. This also gives the seller the option to charge more for items that aren't specific to that ward but are needed for that craft which will help offset that higher tax associated. You could even further break down the searches by having a finished goods NPC, a material NPC, and a non-craft NPC all in the same guild. Finished goods would have only finished goods from blacksmithing, materials would be only BS materials, and non-craft would be any other items like a piece of leather etc that is used in a BS recipe.

This is all players want, make it easy to find the items associated with whatever I am currently doing. I don't want to have to run around to find a certain retainer, I want to run to one specified location for said task every time and expect to find what I'm looking for.

SE did not do this, AT ALL!


Edited, Sep 29th 2010 6:56pm by burtonsnow
#77 Sep 29 2010 at 5:10 PM Rating: Default
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I honestly cannot see the proposed changes over the next week or two making the economy system any better. Labeling the marketing wards by item and allowing players to have more retainers is going to have more negative effects. One if a player truly wants to follow this system it is going to take much more time to organize your items for sale across multiple retainers. You will need to ready one for weapons, one for armor, one for certain type of crafting mats and the list just goes on... This is going to flood all of the market wards with an abundance of npc's and further increase lag in those areas. Not only that, what about the non-crafting players who just want to sell a bit of odds and ends? Where do they send their retainer full of junk?


SE needs to realize what the players want is ease of use and functionality. An economic system that time-efficent and can be easily accessed and utilized by all. The current system almost makes it impossible for casual players to enjoy the game..which clearly doesn't fit their marketing model. Time for an AH?
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#78 Sep 29 2010 at 5:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Even the gears not going to be in one place... body ward... leg ward... glove ward... to get a full set of gear ull need to go thru 4 dif wards + looking thru 50+ retainers just to see IF they have what u r looking for
#79 Sep 29 2010 at 5:40 PM Rating: Good
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just give us /sea all Smith 15-20
#80 Sep 29 2010 at 6:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Separate wards = search, just a really low resolution search.

The real problem is the poorly implemented buy order system. I can't place a buy order for something I don't have? I can't place a unit price buy order, and have someone fulfill only part of it? I can't trade a stack of different items for a single item? Really?

This is the major obstacle in setting up a real crafting supply chain. Someone above asked "where can I sell all my bone chips, extra crystals, and pelts that fall off the crap I kill?" The answer SHOULD BE: "buy orders". Someone in the alchemist's ward, or goldsmithing ward will have a buy order for bone chips since they need them for glue and bone gear. Crafters of all types need crystals, and they are roughly aligned by element: carpenters need lots of wind, alchemists need water, blacksmiths and armorers need fire, etc. So you have an idea about where you can sell your crystals of various types.

Ideally one would set up a retainer with all the buy orders needed to craft the items being sold, so you are basically a factory and your retainer provides inputs and sells outputs. This is what I think SE is aiming for but their implementation is pretty bad, so far.
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#81 Sep 29 2010 at 7:27 PM Rating: Good
Looks like I won't be playing this game.
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#82 Sep 29 2010 at 7:33 PM Rating: Good
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RufuSwho wrote:
It's the search system that's missing, not the centralized AH. I doubt many would agree, but I'm finding the lack of AH to be making the game far more social in many respects.

I think you might be on to something...
Think about it

(battle classes) -> Auction House
(Field classes) -> Auction House
Auction House -> Crafter
Crafter -> Auction House
Action House -> (classes)

Really, an Auction house destroys player to player trading and interactions the way I see it...

Even when browsing retainers, I'll take a few buddies with me and we'll all go together.. Hey, weren't you looking for a shield? Only 15k here... Makes it go a lot faster when you have other people helping you search as well..
#83 Sep 29 2010 at 7:51 PM Rating: Good
Sage
*
188 posts
My biggest problem with the market ward is that either my pc or the game isn't displaying all of the retainers, only a handful that are around me. So I'm constantly moving around as if the lights were out, waiting for new retainers to spawn. It's very difficult to keep track of which ones I've already looked through.
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