Forum Settings
       
This Forum is Read Only

Missing the point? MMO, Crafting, and AHFollow

#52 Sep 30 2010 at 7:05 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
163 posts
I am a leatherworker crafter and I love this game. yes you have to put in time to craft and gather but it's worth it, I'm not like every other crafter i've seen selling a harness for 10-20k. IT'S A ******* HARNESS! I haven't seen anyone beat my prices and i just laught at ppl that pay taht kind of gil for a piece of gear. I sell a harness for 7k. that's it. and honestly i don't farm half my mats. i meet ppl that do crafts and we become 'vendors' to each other, i buy mats from them i need in bulk and in return i get reduced prices. Anyone who says they can't sell anything needs to stop playing this game. I love that SE has really upped the age on this game. what i mean is that you really have to understand how a economy works to make a decent profit in this game. I spend about 100,000 on mats in about 10 mins easily but i have such a huge customer base now that i make all of it back w/in a hour. I also don't bazaar my items, i make the gear per request.
____________________________
So I rated you up for no good reason, big deal. Wanna fight about it?
#53 Sep 30 2010 at 7:24 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
39 posts
MallocArray wrote:
Lots of people are complaining about the lack of an Auction House, searching retainers...


I gave it a fair chance.

I spent 90 minutes searching all the retainers in all the market wards last night looking for an upgrade to my lvl 1 botany axe. I didn't find one. That should have taken less than a minute. Retainers are a unique but terrible idea.

The first time you zone into the first market ward, where everyone seems to try and cram in, and are faced with an ocean of not-helpfully named retainers all selling bone rings and marmot meat, I'm sure you'll agree.

Square's floated the idea of designating certain wards for certain products, but not enforcing it beyond a reduced tax. Since most retainers are used by people playing the game and trying to sell a hodge-podge of drops they don't want to vendor, this won't help a whole lot.

Without a really effective (not just the immediate surrounding retainers) search finding a particular item, or even trying to fill a particular slot with ANY upgrade is going to be extremely time-intensive and will usually end in disappointment.
#54 Sep 30 2010 at 8:12 AM Rating: Decent
***
1,822 posts
People will defend and argue anything, and I mean anything. There is nothing in the universe that does not have debate behind it. If you think "Well... This can't be argued or neither can that, it's just plain wrong", no... It can indeed, has been, and will be argued. Actual logic has a very small place in humanity anymore, people create their own.
____________________________
Long Live Vana Diel.
#55 Sep 30 2010 at 9:26 AM Rating: Excellent
**
518 posts
Ok after 5 days of crafting and leveling and running over gods creation for ************** this system!

This is the most godawful way of doing business there is. It'd be like going to each neighbor you have in your town to find a person selling a pencil. We as a human society created big box stores, one stop shopping locations because that's what makes sence economically. A place where you can easily find items and not have to travel. The AH system. I can look in the AH and search exactly what i'm looking for. If i want a level 7 piece of armor I can look it up.

You idiots who say well the new system allows that are ******* retarded. I have to walk, yes walk cause anima recharge is low, between all the cities to search 100+ NPCs who arn't telling me what they are selling. So for me to find one weapon i have to search 40 NPCs selling **** they should be selling to vendors. This system is a huge waist of time! What about those rare crafting items? I'm supposed to look through 300+ NPCs to find that one item i need to make something? I can shout all day for a crafter to make an item, which is what i think the goal is. But crafting items need to be in 1 or regional central locations easily accessed, other wise we'll be missing out on a lot of gear cause someone NPC'd a rare item cause they had no clue it was worth anything.

Price history is another thing. I have no idea what a fair market price is for items. If i want to be competitive and sell my items fast, i need to know what the avg market price is than adjust accordingly. I mean there could be a guy undercutting everyone by 10k in some other town and no one would know. They'd all be wondering why their gear doesn't sell.

If ppl want to bazar ****, than do it. It's how i sell my gear. I plant my self infront of th guild with the items for that guild i've farmed and wait for ppl to buy my ****. It's easy and convenient.People don't have to search 100+ NPCs for ******* sheepskin, or ore, or what ever else. Excuse the wall of text but I am gettting ****** the **** off at this stupid system. It's impossible for me to get the gear I want cause i have no way besides searching 200+ NPCs for a rare item needed to make a piece of gear.

TL;DR **** this system, and it's mother, and the horse it rode in on!!!!
#56 Sep 30 2010 at 10:10 AM Rating: Default
Eske, Star Breaker wrote:
I vehemently disagree with the OP.

According to the devs themselves, this game was created with a more casual playerbase: players like me, in mind. Yes, it's physically possible to use the system in the manner in which you describe it. Unfortunately, it's expensive and extraordinarily time-consuming.


You're overlooking one fundamental aspect to the whole situation: the game is brand new. You simply cannot look at the way things are working now and decree it as a broken system unless you're also willing to take an objective look at how things will be six months down the line. How do you think the AH in FFXI got loaded with all that gear by the time the NA release came along? How much gear was there to be had for a reasonable price from NPCs? Next to none, right? Once you got past the bare-bones level 7ish stuff from NPCs, if you wanted better you had to rely on what crafters were producing or you had to pay out the *** for a very limited selection of bits and pieces here and there.

It's the same thing in XIV. This whole situation is actually benefiting me in a way because I refuse to search for the items I need and I know that in most cases even if I were to find them, I'd be unwilling to pay what people are asking so you know what I do? I work on my crafting. And through working on my crafting alongside my DoL professions, I wind up being the guy who can sell things at more reasonable prices and still be satisfied with my profit level.

Some guy was giving me a hard time in LS last night because I was talking to a new player about what Bone Rings were really worth. Apparently I was being foolish for making rings and flogging the non-HQ results to a vendor because I could be selling the wind shards for so much more. From his point of view he had the whole economy on lockdown, browsing bazaars for "underpriced" goods listed by "retards" and reselling them for inflated prices and then taking all of his gil and spending it on gear being sold for...inflated prices. What he doesn't realize is that unless he outgrows and flips that gear with the quickness, he's going to find it to be worth a fraction of its value in a fairly short span of time as the crafting community starts to mature and competition starts driving prices down. And when that happens, he's going to be looking at the one thing I get from my bone chips + wind shards that he doesn't: DoH skill.

People are going to whine and condemn the system as broken until things calm down. It's not a perfect system. There are aspects of it I don't like. Regardless, I'm just doing what I do with an eye to the future. Right now I've got materials in my bags for gear I plan to make and place in bazaar that will be worth well over half a million gil even if I undercut current prices. And because I'm going to undercut current prices, my stuff is going to sell. And when it sells, do you know what I'm going to do with the gil? Nothing. Because I don't need it. My gladiator is going on the shelf again until I can make some better gear for him. In the meantime, I use DoW/DoM classes I haven't leveled yet to farm the shards I need to keep moving forward with my crafting skills.

The system is only horribly broken if you look at it from a narrow, personalized point of view. Why any reasonable person might think that the way things are now represent the way they'll always be is beyond me. The game's official service has been underway for just barely over a week. Some will seek to benefit from the situation, some will try to play it like it has been out for a year or more. Who do you think will enjoy it more?
#57 Sep 30 2010 at 10:22 AM Rating: Excellent
*
116 posts
MallocArray wrote:
Auction Houses: Square is trying to setup a whole new economy based on the players. This is a world before eBay, Amazon, and Google. Auction Houses make it too easy to find the going rate and leaves little room for price variants. With the current setup, you are supposed to be looking for the going rate by searching multiple vendors. You can also be your own promoter. Do some shouts about your retainer or your bazaar saying what you have and how much. Do some marketing for yourself, rather than relying on the Auction House to hold your hand through it all. Work with other players to group retainers together that sell similar things in the same area to make it easier for others to find your wares.
.................

Overall, this is a MultiPlayer game, but most of the chatter on the boards revolves around everyone playing it like it is a solo game. Work with other people. Promote your goods. Buy, sell, and trade to get what you need. And be patient right now while all of this gets going. You don't have to beat the game in a week. Take a break from leveling your DoW classes if you can't get the equipment you need and experience other aspects of the game. If everything was available at NPC shops or in a single (or 3) auction houses, you could miss out on a huge part of the experience SE is trying to put together.

I'm not saying that everything is perfect, and I'm sure there is room for improvement, but this contant drone about needing an Auction House is getting old when there are other alternatives in the game for us to explore and try out, and try to make work.


While I can appreciate you wanting to highlight the reasons behind the changes, and opining that such changes can be embraced, I think to a large extent you're missing the reasons people are so unhappy with these changes. It's not really "MMO" it's "MMORPG" While all the other words are descriptive, GAME is the noun and a game should be fun. Casual gamers hate the lack of AH because as it's working now shopping takes up a huge amount of their already limited playing time. Hardcore players hate it because it's impeding their progress. Role-Players hate it because they're trying to communicate and immerse between frustrated players shouting for items.

All that said, the real point is that shopping/selling in this way is not fun for most players.
____________________________
http://server2.uploadit.org/files/Rainpic-Rainsig2.jpg
The highest thing in a man is not his god. It's that in him which knows the reverence due a god.
~Ayn Rand.

Well, you can't make an omlette without uhh..... destroying a forest or something.
~Black Mage

(8-bit Theatre)http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=010302
#58Olorinus the Vile, Posted: Sep 30 2010 at 10:33 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You've got it. The people who hate the wards the most are the people whining that they want a weapon/armor - not people who want crafting materials.
#59 Sep 30 2010 at 10:36 AM Rating: Default
****
9,526 posts
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:

I have a friend leveling all gathering + crafting classes to get things done, he's obviously going to get fed up quick. He too though, is getting no one's help, so overall, as it stands, the system is horrible and a MASSIVE time sink that accomplishes 0. If you have a shell with friends that each have their own craft, supplying stuff, great! If not though, it makes for a long, boring item hunt.


why not join a shell then? And I've found tons of people willing to make my stuff for me. But I give them the mats - plus extra mats for their trouble.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#60Olorinus the Vile, Posted: Sep 30 2010 at 10:44 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Do you know what it takes to make that scepter? At this point that is a decent price:
#61 Sep 30 2010 at 10:48 AM Rating: Good
**
518 posts
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
croythegreat wrote:
This is unlike an AH system of which the entire purpose is streamlining wares to get to the lowest selling point with the most minimal return and thus canibalizes crafting classes/tradeskill to a tool at best. Sure its convenient for most 'warriors' but this game is designed around the idea that crafting and gathering can too be just as important a skill to have in the grand scheme of things that its a job in itself. I'm sorry, the people who want an AH in the sense of WoW and FFXI are imo just asking to tone down the influence on the market crafters are going to have.


You've got it. The people who hate the wards the most are the people whining that they want a weapon/armor - not people who want crafting materials.


I'm a crafter and i'm ******** about the system! I craft to make gear. Not to mindlessly level up. There are those out there who do that. I am also trying to rank up my jobs, make gil, ect...This system is flawed because I can not do all those things within the current system. I spend to much of my time hunting down materials that may or may not exist, I have no idea if ppl are NPC'n them or bazaring them. I have to look through 200+ bazars just to be sure that the item is not out in the economy. Since there is no central location for crafters and material gathers to meet up, I can't shout. Your reasoning behind supporting this system is flawed. It's not the pain that I can't find level 7 armor. It's that I can't find the mats to make it. I don't have the time in game, and i play alot, to search for hours checking NPCs selling **** that ppl should be selling to a vendor. It's a time vs reward type this and this system is a huge time sync for no reward.

And to play the crafter, lets say I make a rare piece of gear and want to sell it. How do i let ppl know I have an awesome rare piece of gear? We have no rollenmart to gather in, we have no AH to list the item in. I'm not going to shout in every zone. This system hurts everyone in ever aspect of the economy. It's the ******* dark ages where there was no market just people trading **** for ****.
#62 Sep 30 2010 at 10:57 AM Rating: Default
****
9,526 posts
robywar wrote:

I spent 90 minutes searching all the retainers in all the market wards last night looking for an upgrade to my lvl 1 botany axe. I didn't find one. That should have taken less than a minute. Retainers are a unique but terrible idea.


you're assuming that people are making them. In a month you would easily find that axe. Right now the hatchet head is about blacksmith 15. Do you know any level 15 blackmiths?

If people want something specific the best thing to do is to get the mats themselves and find a crafter to put them together. I was actually working with a blacksmith yesterday to see if he could make me the hatchet head (I can make the hatchet if I have the head). Granted crafting is borked right now - but as a blacksmith 12 he had a critical fail on it.

It drives me bananas that people don't actually take the time to find out what level crafting is required for the item they are whining they can't find. If they did they might realize that the reason they can't find it is because very few people are able to make it yet.

As a level 12 carpenter I'll tell you it is getting almost impossible to level up now - since I can't find many wind shards and when I do, they are usually so overpriced I can't afford them. People who are whining about not being able to find what they want should give some shards to a crafter - in return for them letting you know when they have it available.

As long as melee folks are out there selling their shards for 200 each - crafters will be charging a lot for their products and will be leveling slower so you'll have to wait longer for your upgraded gear.

____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#63 Sep 30 2010 at 11:20 AM Rating: Default
43 posts
Unohana wrote:
I neither rated the original poster up nor down, but I pretty much disagree with everything he said except for: "this is a Multiplayer game," as there's absolutely no denying that.


<sarcasm>
I just got done installing the game, and while it is down for maintenance, I now totally understand where everyone is coming from. If we had an AH everything would be so much better. Maintenance would be shorter, lag would be non-existent, and gil would come flowing out of fountains. Sign me up!
</sarcasm>
#64 Sep 30 2010 at 11:38 AM Rating: Good
**
518 posts
I
Quote:
f people want something specific the best thing to do is to get the mats themselves and find a crafter to put them together. I was actually working with a blacksmith yesterday to see if he could make me the hatchet head (I can make the hatchet if I have the head). Granted crafting is borked right now - but as a blacksmith 12 he had a critical fail on it.


The only problem here is that some synths are easy. You can find the mats from NPCs and only need to make a bunch of parts to get a whole product. That is the right way to go about synthing materials. It's cheap for buyers and sellers don't have to worry about breaks, it's not their gil blowing up.No one is arguing this point. However, that doesn't justify a lack of an AH. I would do this with an AH and those that don't and just buy finished materials off AHs without looking are stupid and deserve to waste gil.

Quote:
It drives me bananas that people don't actually take the time to find out what level crafting is required for the item they are whining they can't find. If they did they might realize that the reason they can't find it is because very few people are able to make it yet.


It's not the level people are whinning about. It's the lack of some kind of reasonable method for obtaining materials for the synth. I want to make some PUG hands, I have all the mats, except this one pearl that only drops off a leve quest mob in Grind. Now if Grind had an AH I could find this item and make my gloves. However, since they don't i'm forced to look through 70+ Retainers and hope someone is smart enough to know that the item is need for crafting and didn't sell it to a NPC vendor. Do you see the short fall here. It's not about being able to buy finished products that is the problem, its obtaining the rare dropped or coffered materials for making finished products.

A
Quote:
s a level 12 carpenter I'll tell you it is getting almost impossible to level up now - since I can't find many wind shards and when I do, they are usually so overpriced I can't afford them. People who are whining about not being able to find what they want should give some shards to a crafter - in return for them letting you know when they have it available.


Funny how the system you champion is also a system you blame for the current state of affairs. You're saying high prices and lack of finished products is due to a problem of crafters not being able to find wind shards that arn't over priced.....hmmmm, sounds like an argument people are making why this system is flawed and it's affecting you...irony?

Quote:
As long as melee folks are out there selling their shards for 200 each - crafters will be charging a lot for their products and will be leveling slower so you'll have to wait longer for your upgraded gear.


Than stop paying 200 for wind shards, or maybe if there was an AH competition would drive those prices down.You make a pretty good argument for an AH in your defense of not having an AH...

[/quote]
#65 Sep 30 2010 at 11:45 AM Rating: Decent
**
518 posts
MallocArray wrote:
Unohana wrote:
I neither rated the original poster up nor down, but I pretty much disagree with everything he said except for: "this is a Multiplayer game," as there's absolutely no denying that.


<sarcasm>
I just got done installing the game, and while it is down for maintenance, I now totally understand where everyone is coming from. If we had an AH everything would be so much better. Maintenance would be shorter, lag would be non-existent, and gil would come flowing out of fountains. Sign me up!
</sarcasm>


If you played the game at all you would understand what everyone is talking about. Since you havn't enjoy your 2 hour boat ride/walk to Lamisa, oh and don't forget you gotta walk back!!! No choco's or airships for you my friend!!
#66Olorinus the Vile, Posted: Sep 30 2010 at 11:49 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Man an AH would not make shards less expensive. It isn't like people are npcing shards because they can't hold anymore. IF ANYTHING an AH would make shards MORE expensive - look at FFXI - crafting was all about losing as much money as you had to get a few levels to make something you couldn't even sell for the value of the materials.
#67 Sep 30 2010 at 11:53 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
53 posts
EzellLangor wrote:


A
Quote:
s a level 12 carpenter I'll tell you it is getting almost impossible to level up now - since I can't find many wind shards and when I do, they are usually so overpriced I can't afford them. People who are whining about not being able to find what they want should give some shards to a crafter - in return for them letting you know when they have it available.


Funny how the system you champion is also a system you blame for the current state of affairs. You're saying high prices and lack of finished products is due to a problem of crafters not being able to find wind shards that arn't over priced.....hmmmm, sounds like an argument people are making why this system is flawed and it's affecting you...irony?




I understood (but not agreed) you till that point. He wasn't referring to the fact thats theres no price competition. He's referring to the fact that fighters cant seem to make the connection between what there charging for shards and there equipment prices. Crafters know how this works. A good portion of fighters never bother to figure it out.

I have enjoyed myself immensely since launch just crafting. The lack of a AH has made me start talking to more people than usual. I now have an actually connection to the people behind the items. An AH makes it so the other players can be thought of as just a posting. Learn to socialize in a MMO and you'll never set foot in the market wards again.
#68 Sep 30 2010 at 12:02 PM Rating: Decent
****
9,526 posts
sadris wrote:


I understood (but not agreed) you till that point. He wasn't referring to the fact thats theres no price competition. He's referring to the fact that fighters cant seem to make the connection between what there charging for shards and there equipment prices. Crafters know how this works. A good portion of fighters never bother to figure it out.

I have enjoyed myself immensely since launch just crafting. The lack of a AH has made me start talking to more people than usual. I now have an actually connection to the people behind the items. An AH makes it so the other players can be thought of as just a posting. Learn to socialize in a MMO and you'll never set foot in the market wards again.


This is exactly it. I browse the wards just to see if I can score deals but the main part of my mats from directly from players I know. I've been making great connections with folks that can make the things I need - and I make them the things they need. People who think they are going to level everything are going to be so out of luck. It is easy to get a craft to 8,9 and even 10, but after that point it is a lot of work and money. Every time I think I'm going to start a new craft I meet someone who is leveling that craft and end up making pacts with them - I give you these mats - you make bait - you fish me up this fish and that fish - I'll give you this and that - etc.

I was exactly saying that fighters who complain about gear prices should look at how much they sell mats - especially shards for. If they think that they can sell shards at 200 a pop - they are right there adding 2-3K to the cost of their finished item.

____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#69 Sep 30 2010 at 12:05 PM Rating: Decent
**
518 posts
Olorinus the Vile wrote:


Man an AH would not make shards less expensive. It isn't like people are npcing shards because they can't hold anymore. IF ANYTHING an AH would make shards MORE expensive - look at FFXI - crafting was all about losing as much money as you had to get a few levels to make something you couldn't even sell for the value of the materials.

At least in XIV I can make back the price of all my mats when I sell my items. I just raise prices to match prices of materials - simple. I don't lose money in the long run, however.

You're dreaming in technicolor if you think that an AH would lower the price of shards.

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 10:50am by Olorinus



An AH would levelthe price of wind shards. I don't know what that level is atm. I know I sell shards for ~120 per, but i'm sure i could push higher. An AH would solve both our problems. I could figure out a good price to sell my shards fast, but maximize my profit. You can get a feel for what the real value of shards are so you can include that into your costs of making finished products. I've seen a range of prices on a lot of gear. And I agree with you that an AH makes all non-HQ EPEEN crafts a loss its up to crafters to set value to their goods.

If anything the AH allows that one doosh bag who will sell his **** at a lose when before him ppl made money to ruin a market. I'll agree on this, that is where an AH is bad. But ppl can still doosh their way into your margins without an AH. I just want to be able to make products to and put them to market efficiently. This system is inefficient.
#70 Sep 30 2010 at 12:10 PM Rating: Excellent
11 posts
I understand the OP's position on both points, but I don't think that both concepts can be upheld to the satisfaction of the player base.

The crafting doesn't bother me a bit. I can either level a number of crafting jobs to be self-sufficient, make a few friends who have crafting jobs that complement mine (or join a linkshell), or I can buy my components from other players on the market. No big deal at all.

The conflict I see comes with the current market system. As so many others have posted, it is simply too much of a time sink. I play for periods of 30 minutes up to around 2 hours between classes, study time and work. On my shorter periods, I will craft a bit. From my perspective, there is little to no point in logging in for 30 minutes if it will be spent searching through half of the retainers in a ward, just to turn up fruitless and logging back off. This doesn't seem casual friendly at all to me. Though I understand the why of this market system, it seems that SE tossed the how aside when they decided to use a market system. My guess is that regardless of intent, there will eventually be a comprehensive source of market goods made available either by SE or by fans/third party. The game Raganarok Online has one such solution in a website that posts all vendors' wares (ragial.com). That particular solution may not be possible with FFXIV, bit I'm sure there will be a solution to a lot of the market system woes. Hopefully this will come sooner as opposed to after a lot of players have dropped subscriptions due to hassle.

I myself won't be jumping ship any time soon, given that it is launch, and games at launch are much different than they are after a few months to a year.
#71 Sep 30 2010 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
****
6,470 posts
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
This is exactly it. I browse the wards just to see if I can score deals but the main part of my mats from directly from players I know. I've been making great connections with folks that can make the things I need - and I make them the things they need. People who think they are going to level everything are going to be so out of luck. It is easy to get a craft to 8,9 and even 10, but after that point it is a lot of work and money. Every time I think I'm going to start a new craft I meet someone who is leveling that craft and end up making pacts with them - I give you these mats - you make bait - you fish me up this fish and that fish - I'll give you this and that - etc.

I was exactly saying that fighters who complain about gear prices should look at how much they sell mats - especially shards for. If they think that they can sell shards at 200 a pop - they are right there adding 2-3K to the cost of their finished item.



So you advocate that we regress to a bartering system? That isn't casual-friendly at all; especially not for a game that purports to be just that.

I do exactly as you advocate: I rely on contacts and personal interaction to obtain my items. It's a horrendous pain in the ***, and it takes up huge chunks of my playing time. That's not a substitute for an actual world economy. It's a regression to primitive, less effective forms. Sure, it has its benefits. But there's a reason that outdated systems fall to the wayside.

The question is not "Can you accomplish goals within this system?" Of course you can. I'm managing, but there's a reason that I'm still wearing quite a bit lvl 1 gear at lvl 10. The question is "Is this more effective than the alternative precedent?"

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 2:17pm by Eske

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 2:20pm by Eske
____________________________
Latest Articles:
Monaco: What's Yours is Mine Review

Follow me on Twitter!
#72Olorinus the Vile, Posted: Sep 30 2010 at 12:18 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So it is casual - like FFXI to make crafters spend hundreds of thousands of dollars leveling up their craft with no return? I think it is way more casual to have to do some bartering than it is to have to level your DoW/DoM to endgame to afford to level crafting.
#73 Sep 30 2010 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
OP ilaugh at you honestly.
the arrogance.
lol
And let me qualify that.
As of playing all through the beta, Your posting is .. inadiquit at best.
It actaully seems either A fanboy or B your hired to sing praoses of a game you never played yet. ( like most people who write positives about games with issues.


So, There is NOTHING wrong with what SE has done trying to promote interaction as it IS a mmorpg./
However.
I am NOT a crafter. I do NOT synth
the MMOs with Crafting Synthing I have played over the years..
Eve
FFXI
City of H
Champions...
wow and prob 20 more just no point as in ALL of those, I DID NOT CRAFT.
AS I do not pay to play to craft!!!!
I pay to play for story and to develop my tankness and damage dealing abiliteis .
So I FARM.
Farming is essential to the game ( any really)
But I have found without AH as a one stop shop to sell, manage and BUY is .. not good.
as with AH i could plan ahead and only have to visit the AH once or twice a week.
To manage my sales and pick up my new armor and weapons.

See, with AH i could plan ahead. I could SEE what I wanted to obtain as per weaopns foods armor, PLAN go farm and adventure to complete story line ( which is my ONLY GOAL IN A MMORPG TO GET THE ENTIRE STORY AND SIDE MISSIONS)

Crafting.. forcing this crafting onme I am hating.
So it comes down to how will I be able to acces weapons and armor for my dedicated axe wielder?
as most of you will jump from one class to another iwth a scatter brain play style.
I log in to Do missions and get the story. I do not change classes Or make second chars. in any mmorpg. I play for story.
this new way is getting in my story line.
cant get what I need, it will in the end be the end of my subscription.
all i am saying is there should be a way to NOT have to farm and a place dedicated for armor and weapons sales ( perhaps in the respected guilds) as left to only buy from retainers.. prices are going to sky rocket, may as well leave it up to the RTM players as PLAYERS are already askign WAY to much for simple pieces of gear let alone GOOD stuff.
It is already becoming a problm.
So for YOU who have not played it or just get it on the 30th. Stop talking like crafting is the biggest since air.
SOME players have a life, play for story. Not to sit and craft for 2 hours.
So saying SE is forcing to interact is just another exscuse from another fan boy trying to big up hte crating system. Yeah its cool IF YOU SYNTH!
#74 Sep 30 2010 at 12:22 PM Rating: Default
****
9,526 posts
Dude - if you want to just zerg to endgame I suggest you start in a couple months when there are enough high level crafters to make your gears for you. Right now the crafters are behind the melee in terms of level. I know lots of melee in the 16, 17, 18 range - and NO crafters of that level.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#75 Sep 30 2010 at 12:24 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
**
259 posts
My argument for an AH is this: While I'm going through the market wards plus every other unlikely place where retainers hawk their wares I could instead be out and about exploring the world, gathering items, simply craft, or level my jobs.

The point is: going through every ward, checking every bazaar is time consuming and tedious and simply not fun. If you hunt for a simple item, let's say a square maple shield, this is not fun. I'm not missing a point here, I'm just asking myself why does this have to be so complicated when I know that methods exist to integrate a market into games like this, that still feel appropriate and would get the job done much better?

I'd be content if you could access an auction house only via your retainer. And your mailbox would be also managed by your retainer. I'm fine with that. But I do not understand the stance to provide no auction house at all.
#76 Sep 30 2010 at 12:32 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
***
1,675 posts
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Dude - if you want to just zerg to endgame I suggest you start in a couple months when there are enough high level crafters to make your gears for you. Right now the crafters are behind the melee in terms of level. I know lots of melee in the 16, 17, 18 range - and NO crafters of that level.


This isn't meant to disprove your point, but I saw a weaver on my server ding to Rank 21 and Level 29.

I've just assumed that crafters were ahead in leveling because DoW classes are a bit tougher to level because of the "lack" of gear and weapon choices.
#77 Sep 30 2010 at 12:35 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,707 posts
I love the fact that there is no "set price" for items. In FFXI no one would pay 50k for a flame sword because they could see the last 10 sales were all for around 21k. In FFXIV if you see a Flame Sword that you have been wanting and its 50k and you have 120k in your wallet, you buy it and feel excited to have a new sword. In FFXI if someone lists the Flame Sword on the AH for 50k you try 21k, and don't get it.... try 22k and don't get it...try 23k and don't get it.... then you proceeed to cuss out the greedy ******* who obviously listed his flame sword for more than its worth and you go without a sword for a couple of days even though you could have easily afforded the one on the AH.

Worth should be determined by the buyer, not the price history on the AH. Finding that item in a bazaar for cheaper than you expected to find it is like stumbling accross a rare prize. Its fun.

Also, I bought some of the ingredients for a Hopolon Shield and crafted myself one last night. It was very satifying to make my own shield. I bought enough of each ingredient to make a couple of extras to sell for some spending cash.

I think as they tweak the system it will get much better and the things I like about it will become apparent to other players.
#78 Sep 30 2010 at 12:38 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
7 posts
Mithsavvy wrote:
I love the fact that there is no "set price" for items. In FFXI no one would pay 50k for a flame sword because they could see the last 10 sales were all for around 21k. In FFXIV if you see a Flame Sword that you have been wanting and its 50k and you have 120k in your wallet, you buy it and feel excited to have a new sword. In FFXI if someone lists the Flame Sword on the AH for 50k you try 21k, and don't get it.... try 22k and don't get it...try 23k and don't get it.... then you proceeed to cuss out the greedy ******* who obviously listed his flame sword for more than its worth and you go without a sword for a couple of days even though you could have easily afforded the one on the AH.


So you're saying it's nice to be able to gouge people without the gouged person finding out? Sounds like the lack of an AH is going to get people *more screwed,* in addition to taking forever to find stuff.
____________________________
-Cinnaris
FFXI: Asura Server, Cinnaris, DRG/WHM L85
FFXIV: Mysidia Server
#79 Sep 30 2010 at 12:39 PM Rating: Default
*
66 posts
Youre more right then a few of the crybabies would like to admit. Honestly its a great system and im appalled at people disliking it, they have NO IDEA how screwed they are if there was an Auction House.

Like for instance after a little shouting and searching, I found materials to make bronze nuggets- which I turned into ingots. The COST per ingot (and this is reasonable) ran me about 1500 gil. I sold them for 3500, then 4000. Most of my price was based off the time and effort I spent making them. Anyway so I sold about 15 and noticed I was selling out quicker then I could put them up. Why I wondered?

Turns out alot of the people (probably some from this thread) thinks a good price is what makes them a 1000% profit and they dont sell their stuff at all. Then they spam shout and YELL at you when you whisper to them that their price is too high. "OMG crystals cost this, this costs that, you shut up!". Seriously all over pricers do that...

These people, who probably randomly sell a few items still, would STILL be trumped by my low prices in an Auction House. Worst of all is if an AH existed, NOONE outside of a good LinkShell will sell stuff consistantly. In a LS crafters can trust each other, giving important items to others and splitting in profits made from it.

So your best bet is to have WELL PRICED goods and consider what youre selling and where. Ill give a helpful list of what ive sold (or bought through my bazaar) almost immediately, for how much, and where.

Bronze Nugget, 599-799, Blacksmith Guild.

Bronze Ingot, 2999-3999, Blacksmith Guild.

Iron Nugget, 1399-1599, BS Guild.

Iron Ingot, 6999-7999, BS Guild.

Bronze Needle, 799-999, Weaver Guild- Adventure's Guild.

REQUEST TO BUY : Fire Crystals, 599-799, BS Guild - Adventure's Guild and Camps.

Equipment, Armorer Hammer 19999, Goldsmith Hammer 16999, Marauder Axe 28888- Adventure's Guild or Camps.

Bronze Dagger, 15999, Gladiator Guild.

So if you have an item that doesnt sell one day, DONT freak out.. Especially if you know it to be well priced, be patient. I almost drastically lowered prices on my gear and after just forgetting to change it, it had sold.



So dont listen to those crying.. This system is so awesome, it makes it viable for solo players not wanting to conform to huge LSs just to make a profit.

NETWORK.. All I do is possible because im not dumb.. Need a carp? Search for a carp with the find group feature. OR what I did was (before I figured out how to filter chat) just talked to people getting "So and so reached level X carpentry!". Talked to them and we worked together!

***** THE CRYBABIES! VIVA LA FFXIV!!!

#80Olorinus the Vile, Posted: Sep 30 2010 at 12:41 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) No, actually, but it is nice to be able to afford to craft from level one because you can sell the items you make for what they cost to make plus some profit... rather than in FFXI when you had to sell almost everything for less than it cost to make - at least for the first 30 levels of a craft
#81 Sep 30 2010 at 12:43 PM Rating: Default
****
9,526 posts
Kierk wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Dude - if you want to just zerg to endgame I suggest you start in a couple months when there are enough high level crafters to make your gears for you. Right now the crafters are behind the melee in terms of level. I know lots of melee in the 16, 17, 18 range - and NO crafters of that level.


This isn't meant to disprove your point, but I saw a weaver on my server ding to Rank 21 and Level 29.

I've just assumed that crafters were ahead in leveling because DoW classes are a bit tougher to level because of the "lack" of gear and weapon choices.


but crafters can't party up to do levels 10 above their level. I don't think there are many crafters that high yet. Maybe a couple - but not many.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#82 Sep 30 2010 at 12:45 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,707 posts
Cinnaris wrote:
Mithsavvy wrote:
I love the fact that there is no "set price" for items. In FFXI no one would pay 50k for a flame sword because they could see the last 10 sales were all for around 21k. In FFXIV if you see a Flame Sword that you have been wanting and its 50k and you have 120k in your wallet, you buy it and feel excited to have a new sword. In FFXI if someone lists the Flame Sword on the AH for 50k you try 21k, and don't get it.... try 22k and don't get it...try 23k and don't get it.... then you proceeed to cuss out the greedy ******* who obviously listed his flame sword for more than its worth and you go without a sword for a couple of days even though you could have easily afforded the one on the AH.


So you're saying it's nice to be able to gouge people without the gouged person finding out? Sounds like the lack of an AH is going to get people *more screwed,* in addition to taking forever to find stuff.


Define gouged? There is no monopolization going on. I bought a Bronze dagger last night for 18k. Later I saw two for sale for 10k. I said to myself, **********, maybe I should have looked longer beofre buying" but in no way did I feel gouged. For all I know those two for 10k were way under-priced and I would be lucky to find anymore anywhere near that price. According to you, the person charging 18k is gouging?? Or is the person charging 10k a fool? Who are you to set the value for someone else?




Edited, Sep 30th 2010 1:45pm by Mithsavvy
#83 Sep 30 2010 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Dude - if you want to just zerg to endgame I suggest you start in a couple months when there are enough high level crafters to make your gears for you. Right now the crafters are behind the melee in terms of level. I know lots of melee in the 16, 17, 18 range - and NO crafters of that level.


I've seen several notices in my chat log of various people hitting rank 20+ with some DoH classes, but they're by no means common. My current highest is rank 14 (weaver, and we all know why) with everything else except cooking in the 10-12 range. I'm hoping to have at least a couple in the 15+ range by the end of the weekend.
#84 Sep 30 2010 at 12:49 PM Rating: Default
****
9,526 posts
I'm rank 14 alchemist as my highest and it is one of the easier ones to level (fairly abundant mats, higher level tools avail)

I'm fairly much despairing with my carpenter since it needs so many wind and pretty much nothing else, and I can't get an upgraded saw.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#85 Sep 30 2010 at 12:54 PM Rating: Decent
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I'm rank 14 alchemist as my highest and it is one of the easier ones to level (fairly abundant mats, higher level tools avail)

I'm fairly much despairing with my carpenter since it needs so many wind and pretty much nothing else, and I can't get an upgraded saw.


I don't do enough carpentry to really notice the tool deficiency yet. My carpenter is rank 10 and I need it at around 15 or so to make walnut hammer grips, but it's one of the lowest on my list of priorities right now. It's sort of the, "carve things up when you have the mats" class right now, but I'm not really investing any significant effort into it. Once I get weaver squared away to the point where I can make undyed canvas without losing my shirt, I might focus on carpentry just so I can make the hammer grips, then it will be back to blacksmith/armorer/goldsmith for the nuggets/ingots/nails/etc. And then the cycle will continue, but oddly enough my gladiator is lowest on the list while I get squared away to make my own tools/gear.
#86 Sep 30 2010 at 12:59 PM Rating: Good
**
518 posts
Mithsavvy wrote:
I love the fact that there is no "set price" for items. In FFXI no one would pay 50k for a flame sword because they could see the last 10 sales were all for around 21k. In FFXIV if you see a Flame Sword that you have been wanting and its 50k and you have 120k in your wallet, you buy it and feel excited to have a new sword. In FFXI if someone lists the Flame Sword on the AH for 50k you try 21k, and don't get it.... try 22k and don't get it...try 23k and don't get it.... then you proceeed to cuss out the greedy ******* who obviously listed his flame sword for more than its worth and you go without a sword for a couple of days even though you could have easily afforded the one on the AH.

Worth should be determined by the buyer, not the price history on the AH. Finding that item in a bazaar for cheaper than you expected to find it is like stumbling accross a rare prize. Its fun.

Also, I bought some of the ingredients for a Hopolon Shield and crafted myself one last night. It was very satifying to make my own shield. I bought enough of each ingredient to make a couple of extras to sell for some spending cash.

I think as they tweak the system it will get much better and the things I like about it will become apparent to other players.



there is still a leveling effect in terms of price per product. Now what you cite as an example is exactly why you need an AH. You as the maker of the sword may not know that the swords are being sold for 21k. You put up 50k and wonder why no one is buying your ****. Now if you are the 2nd or 3rd crafter of a rare item than yes this system benefits you because there is no price history and the price can remain inflated for longer. However, the spam crafter is not far behind and he will destroy your market, your price will come down and people will know the true value of your inflated sword. It still happens, just at a slower rate.

You miss the main issue though in that it's not about price fixing, it's about access to materials and finished products. If you make 5 swords and you want to sell them, you have no access to the market place other than shouting in a small subsection of the population hoping that 5 people want to buy your goods, or you become just another retainer in a sea of retainers hoping ppl look at your bazar and think they are getting a good deal on a product. So now you're sitting on 5 swords that you can't sell because people who want to buy them from you have no access to your goods. If you could list them on an AH sure you wouldn't be able to inflate your price, but you could get rid of them much faster.

The same issue applies to finding materials for your sowrd, if one material is from a mob not within the region you are in you'll have to walk to the region it is in, than you'll have to search countless retainers hoping that someone else sees value in your item and didn't NPC it. An AH provides items with value that most players don't associate value too. For example when I first started playing XI I NPC silk thread, because I had no idea it was a high demand item. While looking for materials to craft I came across silk thread on the AH and realized it was a high demand item and worth 1,000 times what I had been NPC'n it for. Without that AH i would have continued to remove supply from the market and hurt my self by not realizing the true value of the item I thought was trash.

This system benefits price fixers because there is no evidence they are price fixing, and example of this, the haub piece that a level 17 crafter can make. The mats are 80k, if you add in leveling cost and break costs along with "new" costs this gear should sell for ~180-220k depending on the crafter and how fast he wants to get rid of it. I'm sure as crafters we can all agree that is a fair price range, and eventually given time prices would fall to within that range. However, the current system we have I know one person selling them for 500k. Now, it's the first few synths I get it. But think about this from a buyer perspective, you are getting RIPPED off and have no way of knowing it till 4-5 days later when you see them going for much less cause the price inflaters have moved on to something else. An AH keeps the economy honest. Yes we as crafters will end up losing more gil to level synths, but thats why there is such a large emphasis in this game about leveling up minning/gather/fishing. So that the material costs can stay low, allowing margins on either loss or gain to remain small but constant. It won't be like xi where you only make money on the tier 0 synths and lose 100k+ on the NQ versions that you NPC cause you can't sell em.
#87 Sep 30 2010 at 1:35 PM Rating: Default
****
9,526 posts
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I'm rank 14 alchemist as my highest and it is one of the easier ones to level (fairly abundant mats, higher level tools avail)

I'm fairly much despairing with my carpenter since it needs so many wind and pretty much nothing else, and I can't get an upgraded saw.


I don't do enough carpentry to really notice the tool deficiency yet. My carpenter is rank 10 and I need it at around 15 or so to make walnut hammer grips, but it's one of the lowest on my list of priorities right now. It's sort of the, "carve things up when you have the mats" class right now, but I'm not really investing any significant effort into it. Once I get weaver squared away to the point where I can make undyed canvas without losing my shirt, I might focus on carpentry just so I can make the hammer grips, then it will be back to blacksmith/armorer/goldsmith for the nuggets/ingots/nails/etc. And then the cycle will continue, but oddly enough my gladiator is lowest on the list while I get squared away to make my own tools/gear.


I used about 300 wind shards getting from rank 10.5 to rank 12. That is what is holding me back right now.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#88 Sep 30 2010 at 1:44 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
72 posts
I'm a member of an ls as many others here are. Not even half of our members bought the CE but we are becoming diversified in our crafting futures. Teamwork ... Teamwork ... Teamwork !!! That is what SE envisions with FFXIV with Crafting and that's what our ls is also.
____________________________



#89 Sep 30 2010 at 3:02 PM Rating: Decent
***
2,535 posts
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Cinnaris wrote:


So you're saying it's nice to be able to gouge people without the gouged person finding out? Sounds like the lack of an AH is going to get people *more screwed,* in addition to taking forever to find stuff.


No, actually, but it is nice to be able to afford to craft from level one because you can sell the items you make for what they cost to make plus some profit... rather than in FFXI when you had to sell almost everything for less than it cost to make - at least for the first 30 levels of a craft


That had absolutely nothing to do with the mere presence of the AH. It was systematic problem with the entire game design.

In particular, the fact that many crafts used non-binding durable goods to skill-up. The very nature of non-binding durables combined with the quantities being produced by level crafters meant that the markets quickly got over-saturated - and as a result prices for those goods dropped below profitability.

You ability to skill-up for profit in FFXIV now has absolutely nothing to do with the absence of an AH and everything to do with the fact that the game is still brand new and therefore the markets are not even close to saturated yet. I guarantee you if you were to start crafting in FFXIV a year or two from now, you would not be able to do that, regardless of the presence or absence of an AH system.
#90 Sep 30 2010 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
*
127 posts
BastokFL wrote:
You ability to skill-up for profit in FFXIV now has absolutely nothing to do with the absence of an AH and everything to do with the fact that the game is still brand new and therefore the markets are not even close to saturated yet. I guarantee you if you were to start crafting in FFXIV a year or two from now, you would not be able to do that, regardless of the presence or absence of an AH system.


Actually, I heard SE plans to eventually mark goods as 'second hand', where an items stats/durability will be reduced if an item is traded or resold multiple times.
#91 Sep 30 2010 at 3:36 PM Rating: Good
*
60 posts
Chubbyjesus wrote:
Youre more right then a few of the crybabies would like to admit. Honestly its a great system and im appalled at people disliking it, they have NO IDEA how screwed they are if there was an Auction House.

Like for instance after a little shouting and searching, I found materials to make bronze nuggets- which I turned into ingots. The COST per ingot (and this is reasonable) ran me about 1500 gil. I sold them for 3500, then 4000. Most of my price was based off the time and effort I spent making them. Anyway so I sold about 15 and noticed I was selling out quicker then I could put them up. Why I wondered?

Turns out alot of the people (probably some from this thread) thinks a good price is what makes them a 1000% profit and they dont sell their stuff at all. Then they spam shout and YELL at you when you whisper to them that their price is too high. "OMG crystals cost this, this costs that, you shut up!". Seriously all over pricers do that...

These people, who probably randomly sell a few items still, would STILL be trumped by my low prices in an Auction House. Worst of all is if an AH existed, NOONE outside of a good LinkShell will sell stuff consistantly. In a LS crafters can trust each other, giving important items to others and splitting in profits made from it.

So your best bet is to have WELL PRICED goods and consider what youre selling and where. Ill give a helpful list of what ive sold (or bought through my bazaar) almost immediately, for how much, and where.

Bronze Nugget, 599-799, Blacksmith Guild.

Bronze Ingot, 2999-3999, Blacksmith Guild.

Iron Nugget, 1399-1599, BS Guild.

Iron Ingot, 6999-7999, BS Guild.

Bronze Needle, 799-999, Weaver Guild- Adventure's Guild.

REQUEST TO BUY : Fire Crystals, 599-799, BS Guild - Adventure's Guild and Camps.

Equipment, Armorer Hammer 19999, Goldsmith Hammer 16999, Marauder Axe 28888- Adventure's Guild or Camps.

Bronze Dagger, 15999, Gladiator Guild.

So if you have an item that doesnt sell one day, DONT freak out.. Especially if you know it to be well priced, be patient. I almost drastically lowered prices on my gear and after just forgetting to change it, it had sold.



So dont listen to those crying.. This system is so awesome, it makes it viable for solo players not wanting to conform to huge LSs just to make a profit.

NETWORK.. All I do is possible because im not dumb.. Need a carp? Search for a carp with the find group feature. OR what I did was (before I figured out how to filter chat) just talked to people getting "So and so reached level X carpentry!". Talked to them and we worked together!

***** THE CRYBABIES! VIVA LA FFXIV!!!



Of all the stupid people defending this system I think you take the cake. Especially the bolded. This system does the exact opposite of encourage solo play. The system is so retarded its mind boggling. It forces you to interact with other players in order to accomplish literally anything, but then takes away and reasonable means of doing so. How on earth does a system where I have to talk to specific people in order to accomplish anything encourage solo play over a game feature that takes care of that interaction for me? I don't have to communicate with them, I don't have to be in the same place with them at the same time.

The whole thing is infantile and stupid. It accomplishes nothing, and isn't going to do anything except set this game up for failure. If SE doesn't do something about it, this game is going to fail. As stated, casuals, hardcores, and even RPers all hate this system. It benefits nobody. Casuals don't want to spend a million years trying to craft one piece of gear. Hardcore people don't want progression halted by lack of acceptable gear. RPers don't want to be forced to interact with non-RPers (which they are in order to accomplish anything.

Its just retarded.
#92 Sep 30 2010 at 3:36 PM Rating: Excellent
rikkuotaku wrote:
Its just easier to level all the crafts I need an MAKE EVERYTHING MYSELF! Seriously it is. I would advise people to go this route.

Farm everything yourself, Mine Botanist, craft all the sub-ingredients, make it yourself. So much easier.

Promoting doesn't work, searching bazaars doesn't work, going through retainers CERTAINLY doesn't work. For now relying on yourself alone is the best option!



I have started down this line of thought as well. I have gotten every crafting class to at least rank 5 with blacksmith, armorsmith, leatherworking, and weaving all up to around rank 10.

I guess the biggest thing I have to come to terms with is the idea of artificially inflating the price of goods through the purposeful obfuscation of information.
#93Olorinus the Vile, Posted: Sep 30 2010 at 3:44 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Could one of the cowards that rated down this factual post please state why? It is a truthful account of my experience - why do you think it deserves a rate down?
#94 Sep 30 2010 at 4:22 PM Rating: Excellent
****
6,470 posts
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I used about 300 wind shards getting from rank 10.5 to rank 12. That is what is holding me back right now.


Could one of the cowards that rated down this factual post please state why? It is a truthful account of my experience - why do you think it deserves a rate down?

Don't be such A-holes. Rate down people for being jerks or idiots, sure - by why the f#ck rate me down for simply saying I used 200 shards to gain a couple levels and that is what is holding me back? That doesn't even make sense. You can't even disagree with that - it is just a fact.

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 2:45pm by Olorinus


I didn't rate you down, but I have to say that you're not doing yourself any favors by repeatedly using the word "whining". As someone who has a huge issue with the current market system, I'm taking offense to it each time you use it. You may say that you're only referring to people who are more hysterical about the issue or something, but that's pretty tough to discern from what you write.
____________________________
Latest Articles:
Monaco: What's Yours is Mine Review

Follow me on Twitter!
#95 Sep 30 2010 at 4:24 PM Rating: Default
****
9,526 posts
Eske, Star Breaker wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I used about 300 wind shards getting from rank 10.5 to rank 12. That is what is holding me back right now.


Could one of the cowards that rated down this factual post please state why? It is a truthful account of my experience - why do you think it deserves a rate down?

Don't be such A-holes. Rate down people for being jerks or idiots, sure - by why the f#ck rate me down for simply saying I used 200 shards to gain a couple levels and that is what is holding me back? That doesn't even make sense. You can't even disagree with that - it is just a fact.

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 2:45pm by Olorinus


I didn't rate you down, but I have to say that you're not doing yourself any favors by repeatedly using the word "whining". As someone who has a huge issue with the current market system, I'm taking offense to it each time you use it. You may say that you're only referring to people who are more hysterical about the issue or something, but that's pretty tough to discern from what you write.


I think out of the ten posts I've made on this thread I've used the word "whining" once. I don't think that counts as "repeatedly." Please feel free to show me where all these "repeated" uses of the word are.

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 3:26pm by Olorinus
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#96 Sep 30 2010 at 4:43 PM Rating: Excellent
****
6,470 posts
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I think out of the ten posts I've made on this thread I've used the word "whining" once. I don't think that counts as "repeatedly." Please feel free to show me where all these "repeated" uses of the word are.


Okay.

Olorinus the Vile wrote:
You've got it. The people who hate the wards the most are the people whining that they want a weapon/armor - not people who want crafting materials.


Olorinus the Vile wrote:
It drives me bananas that people don't actually take the time to find out what level crafting is required for the item they are whining they can't find.


Olorinusthe Vile wrote:
People who are whining about not being able to find what they want should give some shards to a crafter - in return for them letting you know when they have it available.


All in this thread.


Edited, Sep 30th 2010 6:44pm by Eske
____________________________
Latest Articles:
Monaco: What's Yours is Mine Review

Follow me on Twitter!
#97 Sep 30 2010 at 4:48 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I think out of the ten posts I've made on this thread I've used the word "whining" once. I don't think that counts as "repeatedly." Please feel free to show me where all these "repeated" uses of the word are.
Using ctrl+F is so arbitrarily easy, you really should be checking that yourself before making such a claim.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#98 Sep 30 2010 at 4:48 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
685 posts
May I make a quick suggestion? Can we hold off on deciding whether the market is working once we have a lot of things worth selling? It'll take a little while for there to be a steady influx of raw materials, especially the rarer ones or ones from areas people might not visit right now. Then we have to have enough crafters at high enough levels working together to get the nicer gear and consumables out on the market. Right now the market's flooded with junk raw materials, stuff everybody and their grandmother can get. Once the harder to get raw materials start taking over the market we'll see the nicer gear making a stronger presence.
____________________________

Crafter Consortium Craftsman/Gatherers Linkshell
#99Olorinus the Vile, Posted: Sep 30 2010 at 5:05 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) OMG THREE TIMES!
#100Olorinus the Vile, Posted: Sep 30 2010 at 5:08 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) That's a great suggestion.
#101 Sep 30 2010 at 5:09 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
One instance by definition isn't "repeated".
Eske, Star Breaker wrote:
Well, it was 3 times.
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
THIS ISN'T A BIG DEAL!
I dunno man, you're the one bringing it up in the first place, don't get mad if you wind up being wrong.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 19 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (19)