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Missing the point? MMO, Crafting, and AHFollow

#102 Sep 30 2010 at 5:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
May I make a quick suggestion? Can we hold off on deciding whether the market is working once we have a lot of things worth selling? It'll take a little while for there to be a steady influx of raw materials, especially the rarer ones or ones from areas people might not visit right now. Then we have to have enough crafters at high enough levels working together to get the nicer gear and consumables out on the market. Right now the market's flooded with junk raw materials, stuff everybody and their grandmother can get. Once the harder to get raw materials start taking over the market we'll see the nicer gear making a stronger presence.


Why wait? I'm ready to go now, my inventory is full and I'm dropping or vendoring things I'm sure some crafter could use. You say the market is flooded with junk raw materials but one man's junk is another's treasure. It is only junk because you can't use it and there is no AH where it could find a happy owner. Everybody ends up spending time farming all their own stuff instead of trading it at the AH. What a waste of time!

As you point out it is only going to get worse at higher levels. But you know what? I'd like low level gear to start making a stronger presence right now when I need it, not at some future date when the need is much lower.
#103 Sep 30 2010 at 5:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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6,470 posts
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Eske, Star Breaker wrote:

All in this thread.


OMG THREE TIMES!

How many posts did I make? Ten? Eleven? Twelve? No - more than 16 - using a word three times in more than 15 posts really isn't a big deal.

Give me a break. Don't you have anything better to do?

And people ARE whining. Griping and complaining about the same thing over and over and over again instead of solving their issues - THAT'S WHINING.



Edited, Sep 30th 2010 4:07pm by Olorinus


Don't get all ***** just because you got called out. Smiley: rolleyes

By the way, this time I did rate you down. Better not start whining about it though, otherwise you might look a tad hypocritical.
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#104 Sep 30 2010 at 5:38 PM Rating: Default
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696 posts
Kkes wrote:
OP ilaugh at you honestly.
the arrogance.
lol
And let me qualify that.
As of playing all through the beta, Your posting is .. inadiquit at best.
It actaully seems either A fanboy or B your hired to sing praoses of a game you never played yet. ( like most people who write positives about games with issues.


So, There is NOTHING wrong with what SE has done trying to promote interaction as it IS a mmorpg./
However.
I am NOT a crafter. I do NOT synth
the MMOs with Crafting Synthing I have played over the years..
Eve
FFXI
City of H
Champions...
wow and prob 20 more just no point as in ALL of those, I DID NOT CRAFT.
AS I do not pay to play to craft!!!!
I pay to play for story and to develop my tankness and damage dealing abiliteis .
So I FARM.
Farming is essential to the game ( any really)
But I have found without AH as a one stop shop to sell, manage and BUY is .. not good.
as with AH i could plan ahead and only have to visit the AH once or twice a week.
To manage my sales and pick up my new armor and weapons.

See, with AH i could plan ahead. I could SEE what I wanted to obtain as per weaopns foods armor, PLAN go farm and adventure to complete story line ( which is my ONLY GOAL IN A MMORPG TO GET THE ENTIRE STORY AND SIDE MISSIONS)

Crafting.. forcing this crafting onme I am hating.
So it comes down to how will I be able to acces weapons and armor for my dedicated axe wielder?
as most of you will jump from one class to another iwth a scatter brain play style.
I log in to Do missions and get the story. I do not change classes Or make second chars. in any mmorpg. I play for story.
this new way is getting in my story line.
cant get what I need, it will in the end be the end of my subscription.
all i am saying is there should be a way to NOT have to farm and a place dedicated for armor and weapons sales ( perhaps in the respected guilds) as left to only buy from retainers.. prices are going to sky rocket, may as well leave it up to the RTM players as PLAYERS are already askign WAY to much for simple pieces of gear let alone GOOD stuff.
It is already becoming a problm.
So for YOU who have not played it or just get it on the 30th. Stop talking like crafting is the biggest since air.
SOME players have a life, play for story. Not to sit and craft for 2 hours.
So saying SE is forcing to interact is just another exscuse from another fan boy trying to big up hte crating system. Yeah its cool IF YOU SYNTH!


LOL @ this post. Education? Can I have it?
#105 Sep 30 2010 at 6:11 PM Rating: Good
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60 posts
Gadhelyn wrote:
May I make a quick suggestion? Can we hold off on deciding whether the market is working once we have a lot of things worth selling? It'll take a little while for there to be a steady influx of raw materials, especially the rarer ones or ones from areas people might not visit right now. Then we have to have enough crafters at high enough levels working together to get the nicer gear and consumables out on the market. Right now the market's flooded with junk raw materials, stuff everybody and their grandmother can get. Once the harder to get raw materials start taking over the market we'll see the nicer gear making a stronger presence.


There are a ton of things worth selling already. Every single crafted finished products requires materials made from at least one other craft. That means everyone has things that everyone else wants to buy. Its not junk. There are tons of items I'm being asked for as a 13 Armorer, and tons of materials I'm looking to buy. I can't find them anywhere.

The system simply blows.
#106 Sep 30 2010 at 6:29 PM Rating: Default
7 posts
The title of the thread is correct... people are completely missing the point.

I havent needed to spend any time looking through the bazaar.... because i have an active Link Shell of a massive.. wait for it... 5 players who are each leveling one craft.

They didnt design this game to be solo player friendly, they designed it to be casual friendly. They are completely different things.

If you are unable to find a linkshell that will support you, or simply want to play the whole game solo... then that really isnt Squenix's fault.

Any casual player can join a Linkshell with 3 or 4 crafters, ask for help and be provided with the materials they need to start crafting themselves.

If your LinkShell has nobody willing to help you, well its your fault for playing with selfish players, leave and find a better one...

If you absolutely have to do everything by yourself... well thats your choice although i wouldnt recommend it.

TLDR: This is a casual SOCIAL game. You want stuff... find a good LS (no that doesnt mean an LS with x number of level 30s in it, it means people who will chat and help each other). Pick one craft to level and get your LS mates to level the other ones, most of the crafts feed each other.

An auction house would destroy the need for cooperation and, has been previously pointed out, reduce every sale price to build cost = The best crafting system ever put into a game (apart from Eve) gets ruined because a few people are either too anti-social or too selfish to play in a LS or work with others who are willing to help each other.
#107 Sep 30 2010 at 6:35 PM Rating: Good
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60 posts
Alias3 wrote:
The title of the thread is correct... people are completely missing the point.

I havent needed to spend any time looking through the bazaar.... because i have an active Link Shell of a massive.. wait for it... 5 players who are each leveling one craft.

They didnt design this game to be solo player friendly, they designed it to be casual friendly. They are completely different things.

If you are unable to find a linkshell that will support you, or simply want to play the whole game solo... then that really isnt Squenix's fault.

Any casual player can join a Linkshell with 3 or 4 crafters, ask for help and be provided with the materials they need to start crafting themselves.

If your LinkShell has nobody willing to help you, well its your fault for playing with selfish players, leave and find a better one...

If you absolutely have to do everything by yourself... well thats your choice although i wouldnt recommend it.

TLDR: This is a casual SOCIAL game. You want stuff... find a good LS (no that doesnt mean an LS with x number of level 30s in it, it means people who will chat and help each other). Pick one craft to level and get your LS mates to level the other ones, most of the crafts feed each other.

An auction house would destroy the need for cooperation and, has been previously pointed out, reduce every sale price to build cost = The best crafting system ever put into a game (apart from Eve) gets ruined because a few people are either too anti-social or too selfish to play in a LS or work with others who are willing to help each other.


This is so wrong its ridiculous. Clearly your linkshell of casuals hasn't gotten to the point where you need higher level crafters of your on craft to make things for you so you can make materials for someone else so they can make you a finished product.

You can say its social all you want, but they give you no tools to interact people. Its just stupidity at its finest.
#108 Sep 30 2010 at 7:07 PM Rating: Default
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127 posts
TanthPhoenix wrote:
You can say its social all you want, but they give you no tools to interact people. Its just stupidity at its finest.


So umm... Linkshells aren't a tool for interacting with people?
#109 Sep 30 2010 at 7:16 PM Rating: Decent
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60 posts
XelKarin wrote:
TanthPhoenix wrote:
You can say its social all you want, but they give you no tools to interact people. Its just stupidity at its finest.


So umm... Linkshells aren't a tool for interacting with people?


Linkshells promote them, sure. Except the entire linkshell system is flawed. You can't do anything (for example, kick or promote members) without standing next to them. Same applies to parties. Can't invite people without being able to target them.

The lack of basic functions that worked perfectly in FFXI that people should be able to reasonably expect in every single MMO...aren't here. It's absurd.

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 9:17pm by TanthPhoenix
#110 Oct 01 2010 at 8:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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1,822 posts
Alias3 wrote:
They didnt design this game to be solo player friendly


Really? That sure does go against what Square Enix said in about 50,000 different interviews so far. They basically use to have it as a macro response, "If you wish to play and enjoy the game solo you'll be able to do that to". Can't even count how many times this has been said, it's common knowledge. Not that I prefer solo play, I've got a large community helping each other craft things and succeeding quite well so far. However we still wish there was a damned auction house, and you really should know your facts before you open your mouth.
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#111 Oct 01 2010 at 8:34 AM Rating: Good
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I'd be much less agitated by e lack of an ah or search function if

A) extra retainers didn't cost real money so I could easily store extra raw/finished mats until they sell
and/or
B) the ui lag of moving items, searching, interacting, and inventorying wasn't so **** bad

Is the market ward idea interesting? Sure, but only if there's well thought out system in place, which i feel they clearly don't have right now.
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#112 Oct 04 2010 at 12:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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The thing that astonishes me is that when someone states, "I think a search option or an AH system would be a good idea.", someone immediately starts saying, "Let's make this more like WoW, casual doesn't equal solo-friendly." This game in its current state plays fine. Realistic? Come on, hundreds of user created retainers standing in some secluded area, completely motionless doesn't create any sort of realism for me: it creates frustration.

So the other option is get a linkshell. Yeah, hopefully you could find one that will support your play-style, but what if you don't desire to be in a linkshell. Is the game just broke for you then? Are you not allowed to enjoy the game? I sure hope not.

The point is that SE listens to feedback obviously, and SE will never fix everything to please everyone. But people need to start working together. Bashing one another for individual ideas is just plain mundane.

I'm sure there are people that play this game 10+ hours a day, and others that would like to play it less, but not being able to upgrade gear, or progressing at a decent rate is very frustrating. Spending hours in a market ward isn't a lot of fun either, but a necessity.

So then it comes down to RMT. The only way to stop RMT is to monitor amounts of gil made daily. Would this take some long algorithm to track server side? Most certainly. But not implementing an AH will not solve RMT issues. Not having a mail system will not stop RMT. Having a check in place when large sums of gil mysteriously happen into another players inventory will fix the issue. In example, Joe suddenly inherits 200,000 gil. Check one: did he sell an item on the AH? Answer: no. Investigate, see what happened and track it down. Did he indeed sell an item on the AH? To whom and what level? Just make some checks and balances to monitor huge exchanges of gil. Will this fix the issue completely? No, RMT will never fully disappear.

I truly hope that FFXIV matures as a MMO and grows to span years like FFXI. I'm just from the school of thought that if it isn't broke, don't try to fix it. I am a programmer. I understand it takes thousands upon thousands of lines to create just a small area, an NPC, or a city. But the FFXIV's predecessor was a solid game, and with the changes over the years turned into an even better game. And I will admit that SE improved upon crafting a lot from FFXI, but don't try to reinvent the wheel. Not having an AH has its advantages, but I think the disadvantages and time investment outweigh it greatly.

I've been a Square/Enix supporter since my childhood. But it will taking working together to make this work, not pointing fingers and bashing people. However, this is the forums and it is the nature of the beast.

I enjoy a good debate, I think Aristotle once said it best, "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

Edited, Oct 4th 2010 3:01am by Mathias2k
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