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SE changes to retainers "next week or two"Follow

#1 Sep 30 2010 at 11:11 AM Rating: Good
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So I'm not sure if this has ben mentioned, didn't see a post about it but some nice info from Square's lodestone site about retainers and upcoming changes.

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=693682a80ae927d74b11a0381c7cd1af570568aa

"Q. I have read that there are changes planned to improve the market system, but is there any more specific information available regarding these changes and the direction the market system will take?
A. We have continued to receive copious amounts of feedback regarding changes that players would like to see made to the market system. As a result, we are planning a number of revisions and additions to the system, the first of which are scheduled to be implemented in the next one to two weeks.

Specifically, market wards will be organized according to specific item types, making it easier to consolidate similar items in the same area. Further, if an item sold within a ward corresponds to that wards’ item type, the tax incurred will be reduced. Items not of that ward’s category may still be sold, but the tax imposed will remain the same as it has up until now."

Then the page goes on to list the new names for market wards and what items will be taxed less in those specific wards (should be sold there).

Should make searching for one single item you need alot easier than its current state.
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#2SudoNemesis, Posted: Sep 30 2010 at 11:13 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Except its barely enforced. Only a minor gil penalty for putting things in the wrong market. So lazy people will still just put their retainers in the first market.
#3 Sep 30 2010 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
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Yet, at the same time, it gives people an idea of WHERE to sell their stuff. People will be far more likely to attend the wards when they know where they're going and the sellers realize this.

"Here, I have pugilist weapons for sale! Oh, and while you're at it, do you need any shards?"
#4 Sep 30 2010 at 11:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Deila wrote:
Yet, at the same time, it gives people an idea of WHERE to sell their stuff. People will be far more likely to attend the wards when they know where they're going and the sellers realize this.

"Here, I have pugilist weapons for sale! Oh, and while you're at it, do you need any shards?"

You have far more faith in the intelligence of people who play this game than I do. Remember. Theres a sizable chunk of people here who think auction houses are a bad thing. Intelligence is not exactly running high.

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 1:18pm by SudoNemesis
#5 Sep 30 2010 at 11:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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SudoNemesis wrote:
Except its barely enforced. Only a minor gil penalty for putting things in the wrong market. So lazy people will still just put their retainers in the first market.


And I am not "forced" to try and sell these basketball tickets I have right outside the stadium gate. So, I'm gonna go stand outside the nursing home and try to sell them, its closer to my house...

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 1:21pm by Vawn43
#6 Sep 30 2010 at 11:20 AM Rating: Decent
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...doesn't this run into a big problem in that you can only sell one type of item in the correct location? The whole point of a searchable interface is that you can find exactly what you need and where it is located, but this really isn't fixing that. If someone is mainly selling shields but also has wands and you're looking for wands, you're not going to go to the shield district to see if anyone else also happens to be selling wands on the side. I don't know how the districts will be broken down, that's just an example of the concept. It's a step in the right direction but it doesn't solve the problem in its entirety.



Edited, Sep 30th 2010 12:21pm by bsphil
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#7 Sep 30 2010 at 11:21 AM Rating: Good
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Well its better than nothing, at least if I want some armor I know which ward it is likely to be on now as long as the player base decide to stick there retainer in the correct place. I will say I hate the current system and would like at least a search function to find what I am looking for because so far although I have made an absolute fortune through selling things I have yet to buy an item from a retainer. I look through 10 bazaars and get bored of looking.
#8 Sep 30 2010 at 11:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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SudoNemesis wrote:
Except its barely enforced. Only a minor gil penalty for putting things in the wrong market. So lazy people will still just put their retainers in the first market.


But people who only want to buy something (say either a gear item or perhaps an item needed for crafting) are probably going to search the intended ward first andprobably make their purchase there is they find it. So people who are putting items in the wrong wards are going to get less sales.

If they're selling only items for synthesis in the first ward and lets say first ward is for weapons, I doubt they're going to make many sells because people going to that ward are looking for weapons, not items for synthesis. When said person realizes their items aren't selling they'll move to a better suited ward.

It all comes down to people buying from retainers in the right places. Eventually people will realize that they have better odds of selling what they're selling in the correct ward. If I'm looking for a hat I'm going to the hat ward, not the 1st one that's listed.
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#9SudoNemesis, Posted: Sep 30 2010 at 11:21 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Bad analogy. Proper analogy would be if the stadium had separate sections for selling tiers of tickets, and you were trying to sell your half-court tickets in the nosebleed section because its at the front gate.
#10 Sep 30 2010 at 11:25 AM Rating: Decent
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It wasn't a thread, but it's been mentioned in conjunction with the maintenance items cropping up. As I said before, I don't understand the logic behind this decision. If they wanted to make the wards that specific, they should have just used the manpower to create a search function or AH in the first place. I think things will improve with the ward separation and having extra retainers available, but I wish they'd give up more ground on this issue.

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 10:26am by Dallie
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#11 Sep 30 2010 at 11:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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SudoNemesis wrote:
Vawn43 wrote:
SudoNemesis wrote:
Except its barely enforced. Only a minor gil penalty for putting things in the wrong market. So lazy people will still just put their retainers in the first market.


And I am not "forced" to try and sell these basketball tickets I have right outside the gate. So, I'm gonna go stand out side the nursing home and try to sell them, its closer to my house...

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 1:19pm by Vawn43

Bad analogy. Proper analogy would be if the stadium had separate sections for selling tiers of tickets, and you were trying to sell your half-court tickets in the nosebleed section because its at the front gate.


Bad correction of a fine analogy.

Now if the wards are broken up by different category of say shields, then maybe your analogy makes more sense. Trying to sell a sword compared to cooking ingredients are two completely different markets, not like two basketball tickets in different seating areas.
#12 Sep 30 2010 at 11:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Definitely a step in the right direction. I'll have to check out the tailors ward when I get back in. I'd like to make more use of my retainer & the wards rather than being a traveling cloth merchant most of the time. This'll help at least...

Kind of annoying that I'll take a hit when trying to sell other stuff too... oh well...

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 1:27pm by TwistedOwl
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#13 Sep 30 2010 at 11:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Well at least they bother to sort things out for us. A fix like this is better than none, heh
#14 Sep 30 2010 at 11:28 AM Rating: Default
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Dallie wrote:
...but I wish they'd give up more ground on this issue.
Did you ever play FFXI? ¬_¬ Giving up ground on an issue the player base is having with the game goes directly against SE's style.



Edited, Sep 30th 2010 12:28pm by bsphil
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#15 Sep 30 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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hmmmm no mention of changes to the UI.
#16 Sep 30 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Default
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So I'm a crafter and some of my stuff is weapons, some is armor, some is tools, some is fieldcraft gear and also while I was out logging and solo grinding last week I got a ton of stuff across various categories that I want to sell.

Great, now I only have to visit 8 different market wards and go through the inventory juggling with 8 different retainers to sell everything. Even if we assume that they aren't going to charge me 7 extra dollars a month just to do this (brilliant plan, btw), given the inventory and zone times from ward to ward this is still going to be a giant pain in the ****.

For sellers it seems even worse than it is now.
#17 Sep 30 2010 at 11:30 AM Rating: Good
TwistedOwl wrote:

Kind of annoying that I'll take a hit when trying to sell other stuff too... oh well...


You may have read that wrong, you won't take a bigger hit when you try to sell other stuff simultaneously. Just the same hit you're taking now. But if you sell stuff in the corresponding ward you get a smaller tax penalty.

Also, I read about this earlier today and was quite pumped about it. Maybe soon I'll be able to sell all my excess craft stuff I don't need.
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#18 Sep 30 2010 at 11:31 AM Rating: Default
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SudoNemesis wrote:
Deila wrote:
Yet, at the same time, it gives people an idea of WHERE to sell their stuff. People will be far more likely to attend the wards when they know where they're going and the sellers realize this.

"Here, I have pugilist weapons for sale! Oh, and while you're at it, do you need any shards?"

You have far more faith in the intelligence of people who play this game than I do. Remember. Theres a sizable chunk of people here who think auction houses are a bad thing. Intelligence is not exactly running high.

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 1:18pm by SudoNemesis



AHHAHhhah!! LOL - thank you SudoNemesis!

True - as this does sound like a potentially good idea, it's not going to last more than the first hour after the update. I'd like to think that designated area's to sell items will work, it's a good trial run for the geeks on the other end of this game - but honestly, it's not going to do much to silence the masses and i really believe with the release of the Console version we'll see an Auction House. And i'd still like my Mog House, please.
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#19 Sep 30 2010 at 11:31 AM Rating: Good
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WeedjediRedux wrote:
TwistedOwl wrote:

Kind of annoying that I'll take a hit when trying to sell other stuff too... oh well...


You may have read that wrong, you won't take a bigger hit when you try to sell other stuff simultaneously. Just the same hit you're taking now. But if you sell stuff in the corresponding ward you get a smaller tax penalty.

Also, I read about this earlier today and was quite pumped about it. Maybe soon I'll be able to sell all my excess craft stuff I don't need.


Yeah I caught that after posting lol...now that I actually read the info it doesn't sound as bad...
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#20 Sep 30 2010 at 11:32 AM Rating: Default
Kinbote wrote:
Even if we assume that they aren't going to charge me 7 extra dollars a month just to do this (brilliant plan, btw)


They said they were working on a way to get us more retainers. We can already have as many as we want, we just have to pay. So one would have to assume that the only reason they would be working on getting us more retainers, is if they were going to work on giving us more for free....I mean that makes sense to me anyway.
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#21 Sep 30 2010 at 11:32 AM Rating: Decent
Kinbote wrote:
So I'm a crafter and some of my stuff is weapons, some is armor, some is tools, some is fieldcraft gear and also while I was out logging and solo grinding last week I got a ton of stuff across various categories that I want to sell.

Great, now I only have to visit 8 different market wards and go through the inventory juggling with 8 different retainers to sell everything. Even if we assume that they aren't going to charge me 7 extra dollars a month just to do this (brilliant plan, btw), given the inventory and zone times from ward to ward this is still going to be a giant pain in the ****.

For sellers it seems even worse than it is now.


They didn't say you can't sell things in wards that are earmarked for other things. They're just trying to set it up so that you have an incentive to put your retainer in a ward that is suited to the merchandise you're trying to sell. If you're selling a mixed bag of goods, you can plunk your retainer anywhere and it will function the same as it currently does (including being taxed at the same rate). If you've got a retainer full of weapons, you can put them in an appropriate ward and get a little less taken off by the tax man.
#22 Sep 30 2010 at 11:35 AM Rating: Decent
TwistedOwl wrote:
WeedjediRedux wrote:
TwistedOwl wrote:

Kind of annoying that I'll take a hit when trying to sell other stuff too... oh well...


You may have read that wrong, you won't take a bigger hit when you try to sell other stuff simultaneously. Just the same hit you're taking now. But if you sell stuff in the corresponding ward you get a smaller tax penalty.

Also, I read about this earlier today and was quite pumped about it. Maybe soon I'll be able to sell all my excess craft stuff I don't need.


Yeah I caught that after posting lol...now that I actually read the info it doesn't sound as bad...



Yeah it sounds like a great idea, and I'd honestly be willing to bet that a majority of people will begin to organize their goods according to the ward assignment in a rapid manner. Obviously, it would make sense for both the seller and buyer, sell your stuff where a buyer would be looking, so that you can make money. This will also help set a standard price for things, because you will be able to look through similar retainers, and find the lowest price on a good.

I still say a search function combined with this function would make everything perfect, but at least SE is doing something along the lines of what we're asking for. Which is more than they used to do.
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I'm 20 now, more mature and less stupid. And the only reason I didn't use the original weedjedi is because I can't remember it's login details.
#23 Sep 30 2010 at 11:37 AM Rating: Default
Edited by bsphil
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WeedjediRedux wrote:
Kinbote wrote:
Even if we assume that they aren't going to charge me 7 extra dollars a month just to do this (brilliant plan, btw)


They said they were working on a way to get us more retainers. We can already have as many as we want, we just have to pay. So one would have to assume that the only reason they would be working on getting us more retainers, is if they were going to work on giving us more for free....I mean that makes sense to me anyway.
Even if extra retainers were free, I still wouldn't want to take the time to sort the items I want to sell manually. That's just a needless complication. There are many ways to make a market ward system so much smoother, SE is just refusing to do them for an unknown reason.
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#24 Sep 30 2010 at 11:38 AM Rating: Default
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WeedjediRedux wrote:
Kinbote wrote:
Even if we assume that they aren't going to charge me 7 extra dollars a month just to do this (brilliant plan, btw)


They said they were working on a way to get us more retainers. We can already have as many as we want, we just have to pay. So one would have to assume that the only reason they would be working on getting us more retainers, is if they were going to work on giving us more for free....I mean that makes sense to me anyway.


Possibly. My point was that even with more free retainers this system is still worse. Dumping a bunch of items on a retainer and setting bazaar prices takes way too long and now you have to do it several times. It will make selling really frustrating unless somehow you only ever want to sell one type of thing.
#25 Sep 30 2010 at 11:40 AM Rating: Decent
WeedjediRedux wrote:
Kinbote wrote:
Even if we assume that they aren't going to charge me 7 extra dollars a month just to do this (brilliant plan, btw)


They said they were working on a way to get us more retainers. We can already have as many as we want, we just have to pay. So one would have to assume that the only reason they would be working on getting us more retainers, is if they were going to work on giving us more for free....I mean that makes sense to me anyway.


We can't have as many as we want right now. The feature to add additional retainers isn't available on the account site (unless I've missed it, in which case I'd love to know how to go about adding more).
#26 Sep 30 2010 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
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Kinbote wrote:
So I'm a crafter and some of my stuff is weapons, some is armor, some is tools, some is fieldcraft gear and also while I was out logging and solo grinding last week I got a ton of stuff across various categories that I want to sell.

Great, now I only have to visit 8 different market wards and go through the inventory juggling with 8 different retainers to sell everything. Even if we assume that they aren't going to charge me 7 extra dollars a month just to do this (brilliant plan, btw), given the inventory and zone times from ward to ward this is still going to be a giant pain in the ****.

For sellers it seems even worse than it is now.


You've probably never been stuck in the 2nd ward. I was down there yesterday because the first ward was full and it wouldnt let me call my retainer up there. I sold one gear item in the 2nd ward all day and I had 6 listed, every other time I've been in the first ward and sell almost everything within a few hours...

Oh, and you can still sell your gear and weapons on one retainer if you're in say the weapon ward. It will just save you tax on the weapons, and you will pay the regular current tax rate on hats for instance.
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#27 Sep 30 2010 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good
bsphil wrote:
WeedjediRedux wrote:
Kinbote wrote:
Even if we assume that they aren't going to charge me 7 extra dollars a month just to do this (brilliant plan, btw)


They said they were working on a way to get us more retainers. We can already have as many as we want, we just have to pay. So one would have to assume that the only reason they would be working on getting us more retainers, is if they were going to work on giving us more for free....I mean that makes sense to me anyway.
Even if extra retainers were free, I still wouldn't want to take the time to sort the items I want to sell manually. That's just a needless complication. There are many ways to make a market ward system so much smoother, SE is just refusing to do them for an unknown reason.


They're refusing to add the AH, because as they said it takes away from the "realism" of the game. Frankly, I think its a bag of crap they're selling us on the AH. However, I'm taking joy that for the first time that I can remember, SE is slightly giving in to it's user base and giving us a smidgen of what we want.

It could be better, but they could also just leave it alone and tell us to deal with it. Which SE has done in the past, so I for one am going to praise them for doing something I can't remember them ever doing, even if they haven't done it completely.
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#28 Sep 30 2010 at 11:42 AM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
WeedjediRedux wrote:
Kinbote wrote:
Even if we assume that they aren't going to charge me 7 extra dollars a month just to do this (brilliant plan, btw)


They said they were working on a way to get us more retainers. We can already have as many as we want, we just have to pay. So one would have to assume that the only reason they would be working on getting us more retainers, is if they were going to work on giving us more for free....I mean that makes sense to me anyway.


We can't have as many as we want right now. The feature to add additional retainers isn't available on the account site (unless I've missed it, in which case I'd love to know how to go about adding more).


Someone in my LS has mentioned they might be considering the ability to buy new retainers with gil rather than real money. Not sure where he got that though, but that'd be awesome. Either way, I think the option to buy new retainers has been down as they work on whatever it is they're going to change about it.
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#29 Sep 30 2010 at 11:45 AM Rating: Decent
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PinkMermaid wrote:
Oh, and you can still sell your gear and weapons on one retainer if you're in say the weapon ward. It will just save you tax on the weapons, and you will pay the regular current tax rate on hats for instance.


Yes, thank you. Unfortunately it would greatly reduce my chances of selling the items. I have to hope that someone who wants the food I made to just happen to be looking for it in the weapons market instead of just going to the food market like they probably will.

If you want to efficiently sell several types of items you will need to set up retainers in several wards. That is annoying. Surely you are not arguing that this is a good thing.

I'm not even in the AH crowd, I don't care if there is an AH or not. But the current implementation of the market wards is terrible and these upcoming changes are even worse.
#30 Sep 30 2010 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
WeedjediRedux wrote:
Kinbote wrote:
Even if we assume that they aren't going to charge me 7 extra dollars a month just to do this (brilliant plan, btw)


They said they were working on a way to get us more retainers. We can already have as many as we want, we just have to pay. So one would have to assume that the only reason they would be working on getting us more retainers, is if they were going to work on giving us more for free....I mean that makes sense to me anyway.


We can't have as many as we want right now. The feature to add additional retainers isn't available on the account site (unless I've missed it, in which case I'd love to know how to go about adding more).


According to what I've learned from FFXIVcore, the option doesn't exist YET. They said they'll have the option for us to add more, "in the near to distant future." They also say it will cost a dollar, but it was already known that more retainers were going to be possible, and cost a dollar.

Thus my assumption that, if they were going to mention an update to retainers, that it would possibly be more than 1 for free. However, I could be horribly wrong. I have been before.
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#31 Sep 30 2010 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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SudoNemesis wrote:
Except its barely enforced. Only a minor gil penalty for putting things in the wrong market. So lazy people will still just put their retainers in the first market.


But there's a second incentive--being found by the people wanting to buy what you're selling (and wanting to sell what you're buying). If I'm buying lumber, I'm going to go to the lumber-selling ward first and look elsewhere only if I couldn't find what I wanted there. So you a get a discount *and* you actually sell your stuff. I think we'll see a great deal of selling stuff in the "appropriate" ward.
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#32 Sep 30 2010 at 11:49 AM Rating: Default
Edited by bsphil
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WeedjediRedux wrote:
They're refusing to add the AH, because as they said it takes away from the "realism" of the game. Frankly, I think its a bag of crap they're selling us on the AH.
Pretty much, especially because FFXI had an AH and it fit perfectly into the game.

ChrisMattern wrote:
SudoNemesis wrote:
Except its barely enforced. Only a minor gil penalty for putting things in the wrong market. So lazy people will still just put their retainers in the first market.
But there's a second incentive--being found by the people wanting to buy what you're selling (and wanting to sell what you're buying). If I'm buying lumber, I'm going to go to the lumber-selling ward first and look elsewhere only if I couldn't find what I wanted there. So you a get a discount *and* you actually sell your stuff. I think we'll see a great deal of selling stuff in the "appropriate" ward.
Again, if you want to sell anything else in addition to lumber, you're screwed, because it'll wind up in the wrong ward just by virtue of only having one retainer.



Edited, Sep 30th 2010 12:50pm by bsphil
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#33 Sep 30 2010 at 11:53 AM Rating: Good
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Kinbote wrote:
PinkMermaid wrote:
Oh, and you can still sell your gear and weapons on one retainer if you're in say the weapon ward. It will just save you tax on the weapons, and you will pay the regular current tax rate on hats for instance.


Yes, thank you. Unfortunately it would greatly reduce my chances of selling the items. I have to hope that someone who wants the food I made to just happen to be looking for it in the weapons market instead of just going to the food market like they probably will.

If you want to efficiently sell several types of items you will need to set up retainers in several wards. That is annoying. Surely you are not arguing that this is a good thing.

I'm not even in the AH crowd, I don't care if there is an AH or not. But the current implementation of the market wards is terrible and these upcoming changes are even worse.


I can see how that would be an issue yes, but for people like me (who is only selling gear 98% of the time) it works great.

So if you're selling 8 food items and two gear, you have to prioritize, either focus on selling the gear sinceit probably sells for more or the food since you have more of it.

You can only sell 10 things at a time on a retainer anyways. So unless you're selling 1 food, 1 shirt, 1 weapon, 1 ore, 1 lumber, and 3 skins you'll probably be ok anyways.
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#34 Sep 30 2010 at 11:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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WeedjediRedux wrote:
They're refusing to add the AH, because as they said it takes away from the "realism" of the game. Frankly, I think its a bag of crap they're selling us on the AH.


What realism? In the demos they have flying monstrosities that are not aerodynamic in the least. If that's available, certainly an auction house is. Even if they had an NPC in front, with a 10 minute delay on your listing showing up (alleged manhours for listing it on "paper").

Theres no real reason for not having an auction house or search function. Except not WANTING to.
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#35 Sep 30 2010 at 11:59 AM Rating: Good
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One thing I did just realize is that SE needs to list what each ward should be selling in game. If people just see Battlecraft, Fieldcraft, Drinks, etc. then people might not do as good. They need to list what it says on the link in OP in game also for all the people who don't check forums/sites (there's alot). Otherwise this won't work nearly as good. So hopefully they add that info in game too, and explain the tax thing in game too. Like after they implent this they need to give a message o everyone when they go into the wards for the first time again. Dont have a NPC tell people, too many people won't click the NC for the info.

And Square hasnt said there wont be a search function ever. This is only the 1st hange to the market wrad/ reatiner system, Im willing to bet they'll wait and see how this pans out and make more changes.

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 2:01pm by PinkMermaid

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 2:01pm by PinkMermaid
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#36 Sep 30 2010 at 12:00 PM Rating: Decent
foryth wrote:
WeedjediRedux wrote:
They're refusing to add the AH, because as they said it takes away from the "realism" of the game. Frankly, I think its a bag of crap they're selling us on the AH.


What realism? In the demos they have flying monstrosities that are not aerodynamic in the least. If that's available, certainly an auction house is. Even if they had an NPC in front, with a 10 minute delay on your listing showing up (alleged manhours for listing it on "paper").

Theres no real reason for not having an auction house or search function. Except not WANTING to.


WeedjediRedux also wrote:
Frankly, I think its a bag of crap they're selling us on the AH.
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#37 Sep 30 2010 at 12:03 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
WeedjediRedux wrote:
They're refusing to add the AH, because as they said it takes away from the "realism" of the game. Frankly, I think its a bag of crap they're selling us on the AH.
Pretty much, especially because FFXI had an AH and it fit perfectly into the game.

ChrisMattern wrote:
SudoNemesis wrote:
Except its barely enforced. Only a minor gil penalty for putting things in the wrong market. So lazy people will still just put their retainers in the first market.
But there's a second incentive--being found by the people wanting to buy what you're selling (and wanting to sell what you're buying). If I'm buying lumber, I'm going to go to the lumber-selling ward first and look elsewhere only if I couldn't find what I wanted there. So you a get a discount *and* you actually sell your stuff. I think we'll see a great deal of selling stuff in the "appropriate" ward.
Again, if you want to sell anything else in addition to lumber, you're screwed, because it'll wind up in the wrong ward just by virtue of only having one retainer.


It's not going to be perfect, and a large reason is the one you just gave. But you'll put your retainer where most of what he's selling fits the ward, and that'll help. It'll get better again when you can have more than one retainer, which we've been promised.
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Chris Mattern
#38 Sep 30 2010 at 12:07 PM Rating: Default
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Sounds like they are attempting to fix the problem, but also, at the same time trying to sell their retainers to players. Nice sales technique...

If you have multiple retainers you can spread your items to the proper wards.
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