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As long as SE is selling retainers they won't implement AH.Follow

#1 Sep 30 2010 at 11:42 AM Rating: Default
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The new system for dividing the market wards by commodity is a step in the right direction, but naturally the next question is - what if I have more than one type of good to sell?

After all, the current state of the game encourages leveling up multiple professions, including multiple gathering and crafting classes. You'll likely have more than one kind of good to sell.

Enter the extra retainer system. At a buck a month, SE can cash in on your surplus stuff. I foresee dedicated players easily forking over 5, 6 bucks a month in retainer fees. That's like an extra game sale every year.

Once they're making money through the extra retainer system, what would motivate them to stop? A sudden exodus of players? Maybe.
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#2 Sep 30 2010 at 11:44 AM Rating: Good
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Well, since retainers are going to basically be the mog house of FFXIV, they'll still have a use even if there was an AH.
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#3 Sep 30 2010 at 11:44 AM Rating: Default
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yfaithfully wrote:
The new system for dividing the market wards by commodity is a step in the right direction, but naturally the next question is - what if I have more than one type of good to sell?

After all, the current state of the game encourages leveling up multiple professions, including multiple gathering and crafting classes. You'll likely have more than one kind of good to sell.

Enter the extra retainer system. At a buck a month, SE can cash in on your surplus stuff. I foresee dedicated players easily forking over 5, 6 bucks a month in retainer fees. That's like an extra game sale every year.

Once they're making money through the extra retainer system, what would motivate them to stop? A sudden exodus of players? Maybe.

oh I can see them adding an AH... for 5-10 dollars a month extra fee per month. SE is the only company I've ever seen that charges for more than 1 character. Most only start charging after like 8.
#4 Sep 30 2010 at 12:04 PM Rating: Good
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SudoNemesis wrote:

oh I can see them adding an AH... for 5-10 dollars a month extra fee per month. SE is the only company I've ever seen that charges for more than 1 character. Most only start charging after like 8.
XIV also generally has the cheaper monthly fee though. Most MMOs charge around $15/month, SE charges $13/month. I know, not much difference but it is still worth mentioning as $15/month in ffxiv would give you 3 characters. And it also must be pointed out most other mmos have job specific characters, SE does not. Thats a huge difference. There in no need to create extra characters in XI or XIV (other than mules). Therefore, its a moot point that SE charges for extra character slots.
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#5 Sep 30 2010 at 12:05 PM Rating: Good
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I wish they would start selling new retainers. I would buy 3 today.
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#6 Sep 30 2010 at 12:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Theres other reasons to create more than 1. For example, I have a friend on saronia, and a different friend on mysidia. So I play both. Though saronia's (lack of) economy annoys me.
#7 Sep 30 2010 at 12:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Also, we are now taking steps to increase the number of retainers that a character is able to simultaneously employ.


Seems like we'll be able to hire more retainers for free...
#8 Sep 30 2010 at 12:07 PM Rating: Default
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They will add an AH. They are just hoping to see if the masses will get past their juvenile temper tantrums, and try to give the imposed system a try first. In the grand scheme of MMO longevity, a week or two isnt very long to respond "OMG, the people don't like this, lets fix it NAO!"

I'm in no way a fan of the current system of using retainers to promote trade. I haven't even bothered trying that since the beta. The upcomming updates to retainers... is pretty much what SE said we'd have as a system, months ago. I really wouldn't expect an AH for a couple of months at the earliest. We'll have to endure an update, and maybe another or 2. It's just one of those things, where they implement something, and it doesn't quite work out how they intended. Like how Ninja was intended to be a DD/Enfeeb, and ended up being a tank. SE adds. The people demands. SE fixes to appease the masses. But most major changes to MMO's, planned or otherwise, won't necessarily happen overnight.

That said, the retainer system has nothing to do with the AH, regardless of how they work out. The most primary feature of the Retainers, is storage. As mentioned before, we don't have a Mog House, or any sort of bank/storage feature. Even if they add a SOOPER DOOPER AUCTION HOUSE system, people will still buy retainers, simply because space is a premium.

dunlag wrote:
Quote:
Also, we are now taking steps to increase the number of retainers that a character is able to simultaneously employ.


Seems like we'll be able to hire more retainers for free...


Free? Where'd you get that? More like "you are now free to buy more" is more likely.

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 11:08am by LordDVS
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#9 Sep 30 2010 at 12:08 PM Rating: Good
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SudoNemesis wrote:
yfaithfully wrote:
The new system for dividing the market wards by commodity is a step in the right direction, but naturally the next question is - what if I have more than one type of good to sell?

After all, the current state of the game encourages leveling up multiple professions, including multiple gathering and crafting classes. You'll likely have more than one kind of good to sell.

Enter the extra retainer system. At a buck a month, SE can cash in on your surplus stuff. I foresee dedicated players easily forking over 5, 6 bucks a month in retainer fees. That's like an extra game sale every year.

Once they're making money through the extra retainer system, what would motivate them to stop? A sudden exodus of players? Maybe.

oh I can see them adding an AH... for 5-10 dollars a month extra fee per month. SE is the only company I've ever seen that charges for more than 1 character. Most only start charging after like 8.


SE is also one of the only ones that you level multiple, unlimited jobs on one character. In other games (WoW) you can only have 1 job per character.
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#10 Sep 30 2010 at 12:10 PM Rating: Good
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Extra Retainers will cost one dollar per month to yur account. With all the equipment you need in this game i see everyone having 2-3 retainers. Even if they inpliment a Mog House you still wont have enough room for all your gear and items.
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#11 Sep 30 2010 at 12:11 PM Rating: Good
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dunlag wrote:
Quote:
Also, we are now taking steps to increase the number of retainers that a character is able to simultaneously employ.


Seems like we'll be able to hire more retainers for free...


Link?
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#12 Sep 30 2010 at 12:13 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
dunlag wrote:
Quote:
Also, we are now taking steps to increase the number of retainers that a character is able to simultaneously employ.


Seems like we'll be able to hire more retainers for free...


Link?


http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=693682a80ae927d74b11a0381c7cd1af570568aa

Small line under the list of markets...
Also, we are now taking steps to increase the number of retainers that a character is able to simultaneously employ.



Edited, Sep 30th 2010 2:14pm by TwistedOwl
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#13 Sep 30 2010 at 12:17 PM Rating: Good
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I think the inventory space is retarded in this game to begin with... 80 inventory slots on your main can get filled up in a hour just from fighting and gathering, then you have to go to a bell and spend 10 mins trying to transfer the items, but the retainer only holds 80 too so before you know it your completely full on all characters and you have to spend 10 hours trying to figure out what to do with all the crap.

and look at the mess for crafters.... on top of 5 billion different mats to start with they then have to create 20 different things to make the 1 thing they really wanna make. I don't know who came up with the genius idea of making a game that has endless mats that you need and then only giving you 80 inventory slots and most items only stacking to 12 but they need to be fired.
#14 Sep 30 2010 at 12:17 PM Rating: Good
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Thanks - I missed that. I wanted to buy another 3 retainers like last week. It is getting really hard to level with all the gear sets I'm carrying and mats I am saving. It sucks.
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#15 Sep 30 2010 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
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dunlag wrote:
Quote:
Also, we are now taking steps to increase the number of retainers that a character is able to simultaneously employ.


Seems like we'll be able to hire more retainers for free...

I think you are misunderstanding the quote. They are referring to the fact that as of right now you may only employ one retainer, regardless of whether or not you are willing to pay for an extra. That quote is simply saying that they are preparing to implement the ability to purchase additional retainers.

(Well that's how I take it anyways. I haven't seen anything to suggest otherwise)
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#16 Sep 30 2010 at 12:22 PM Rating: Good
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So continues the era of supply and demand and the ever popular micro transactions.

/sigh
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#17 Sep 30 2010 at 12:24 PM Rating: Good
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Space has been an issue. I decided to focus on 2 or 3 crafts, and selling off mats that i don't need for said crafts. It helps a little, but another retainer or 2 would be nice.
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#18 Sep 30 2010 at 12:25 PM Rating: Decent
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LordDVS wrote:


dunlag wrote:
Quote:
Also, we are now taking steps to increase the number of retainers that a character is able to simultaneously employ.


Seems like we'll be able to hire more retainers for free...


Free? Where'd you get that? More like "you are now free to buy more" is more likely.

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 11:08am by LordDVS


I may be wrong, but that's just my personal understanding from that message.
#19 Sep 30 2010 at 12:30 PM Rating: Good
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retainers cost one dollar a month to have, with the exception of one free retainer per Char you have. If you want another Char they cost three dollers extra per month. SE has stated this for months and Months.
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#20 Sep 30 2010 at 12:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Frebaut wrote:
retainers cost one dollar a month to have, with the exception of one free retainer per Char you have. If you want another Char they cost three dollers extra per month. SE has stated this for months and Months.


Indeed I dont think they called them retainers at the time I dont remember but this has been common knowledge forever. Thought they called them like bank characters or something, which is obviously the retainers. Which means for $1 a month you can get 80 more slots and the hassle of keeping all the retainers organized while taking 30 seconds of UI lag every time you try to move an item =)
#21 Sep 30 2010 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
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dont think there will be an AH at all... the way they're dividing up the markets now makes it look like there's an 'interactive' AH gonna happen..

instead of sorting thru the lists of weapons/armors/crafting stuff, you'll have to physically GO to that section..

finding everyone posting the items on their mule, and see what price they have posted (kinda better than seeing the price of 50 items selling for 1000 gil, ya get that one jerk that posts for 999 gil just so when someone comes along and pays the 1000 gil, they get it first lol)
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#22 Sep 30 2010 at 12:40 PM Rating: Good
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Myzldas wrote:
dont think there will be an AH at all... the way they're dividing up the markets now makes it look like there's an 'interactive' AH gonna happen..

instead of sorting thru the lists of weapons/armors/crafting stuff, you'll have to physically GO to that section..

finding everyone posting the items on their mule, and see what price they have posted (kinda better than seeing the price of 50 items selling for 1000 gil, ya get that one jerk that posts for 999 gil just so when someone comes along and pays the 1000 gil, they get it first lol)


I was bad about that in XI, my LS friends made fun of me. But when I was going to buy from the AH I started at 1gil every time and had a system of slowly working up just in case someone did that. Got those amazing deals once in a great while because of it, usually it was just time consuming with an inevitable result.

Hmm, that could explain why I don't hate the retainer system as much as others. I'll take the time and be picky with my gil...
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#23 Sep 30 2010 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Well, since retainers are going to basically be the mog house of FFXIV, they'll still have a use even if there was an AH.


Now if there were only a way to turn them into moogles, and cram them into a room only you can get into :P. I'll admit it, I miss my mog house D:.

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 1:41pm by Ipwnrice
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#24 Sep 30 2010 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I wish they would start selling new retainers. I would buy 3 today.


Definitely! I just need the inventory space.

"Gathering" jobs have to NPC far too much stuff that is a lot more valuable and that the masses are looking for, but how and where to sell these items are a problem right now. Lack of space in bazaars, highly congested market wards do not make it easy.

However, even if an Auction House system were implemented people would still purchase additional retainers just for the inventory space.

I think I personally would get about 3-5 right now if they were available.
#25 Sep 30 2010 at 12:51 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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LordMethos wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I wish they would start selling new retainers. I would buy 3 today.
Definitely! I just need the inventory space.
That can't be good if you're already out of inventory space after 8 days.
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#26 Sep 30 2010 at 12:56 PM Rating: Decent
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People had 3-4 mules in FFXI for more auction house space. It doesn't matter, peopel will give them money either way.

I had 1 mule in ffxi just to sell my surplus of ninja tools I made because 8 spots wasnt enough. It's fine. But i dont see that happenign as much since you could just set your character up in a ward too with a bazaar, giving 16 bazaar slots.
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#27 Sep 30 2010 at 12:58 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
People had 3-4 mules in FFXI for more auction house space. It doesn't matter, peopel will give them money either way.

I had 1 mule in ffxi just to sell my surplus of ninja tools I made because 8 spots wasnt enough. It's fine. But i dont see that happenign as much since you could just set your character up in a ward too with a bazaar, giving 16 bazaar slots.



I had 10 mules in FFXI... yeah... I like to craft a lot.

You need at least one mule/retainer for just fish!
#28 Sep 30 2010 at 1:11 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Louiscool wrote:
People had 3-4 mules in FFXI for more auction house space. It doesn't matter, peopel will give them money either way.

I had 1 mule in ffxi just to sell my surplus of ninja tools I made because 8 spots wasnt enough. It's fine. But i dont see that happenign as much since you could just set your character up in a ward too with a bazaar, giving 16 bazaar slots.
Unfortunately, yes. Eventually people will get tired of the poor implementation provided by SE and end up paying extra fees to help subvert it. SE gets more money from hundreds of thousands of subscribers without needing to provide a fix. Even if on average people buy one more retainer for their account for a lowballed 250k subscribers, that's an extra $250,000 a month for essentially no extra cost to SE for providing a bad system. I know I eventually caved and got a mule in FFXI to hold a bunch of my crap.

It's a fantastic idea for SE, frankly, and it's pretty obvious why they want to use that instead of a regular AH.

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 2:44pm by bsphil
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#29 Sep 30 2010 at 1:27 PM Rating: Default
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The consensus in this thread seems to be that, regardless of what sort of market is implemented, playing this game without paying real money for additional storage space is a practical impossibility.

This makes the claim that it is cheaper than WoW completely bogus.

For one, I am currently playing $41.97 for 3 months of WoW subscription - that is $14 a month, not $15. The 6-month plan comes out to $13 a month - exactly the price of FFXIV.

I realize Blizzard (and NCSoft and every other MMO) has other ways of making money off you (pets, name changes) but you don't really need any of these to be even a high ranking end game content player. They really offer little in the way of help.

FFXIV, however, seems to have a hidden cost that is nearly unavoidable - extra retainers. Even just a second retainer makes FFXIV more expensive than WoW's 6-month plan, and, by estimates on this thread, you can expect 5-10 retainers to be necessary for avid players. That makes FFXIV substantially more expensive than WoW, and that's not factoring in server transfers or additional toons (given you only get one, if you wanna roll with a friend on another server you'll either need a transfer or a second character - keep in mind in WoW you get 50 characters).

If you factor in the ambitious (ridiculously high-end) hardware requirements, this seems like a very expensive endeavor compared to any other MMO out there - misleadingly so.

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#30 Sep 30 2010 at 1:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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yfaithfully wrote:
The consensus in this thread seems to be that, regardless of what sort of market is implemented, playing this game without paying real money for additional storage space is a practical impossibility.

This makes the claim that it is cheaper than WoW completely bogus.

For one, I am currently playing $41.97 for 3 months of WoW subscription - that is $14 a month, not $15. The 6-month plan comes out to $13 a month - exactly the price of FFXIV.

I realize Blizzard (and NCSoft and every other MMO) has other ways of making money off you (pets, name changes) but you don't really need any of these to be even a high ranking end game content player. They really offer little in the way of help.

FFXIV, however, seems to have a hidden cost that is nearly unavoidable - extra retainers. Even just a second retainer makes FFXIV more expensive than WoW's 6-month plan, and, by estimates on this thread, you can expect 5-10 retainers to be necessary for avid players. That makes FFXIV substantially more expensive than WoW, and that's not factoring in server transfers or additional toons (given you only get one, if you wanna roll with a friend on another server you'll either need a transfer or a second character - keep in mind in WoW you get 50 characters).

If you factor in the ambitious (ridiculously high-end) hardware requirements, this seems like a very expensive endeavor compared to any other MMO out there - misleadingly so.



Haven't looked into setting this up myself yet, but according to the Lodestone site, there's a 6 month deal for XIV as well...making it 10.99/month if my math is right...worth noting

11.99/month for the 90day plan

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/envi/envi04.html


Edited, Sep 30th 2010 3:37pm by TwistedOwl
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#31 Sep 30 2010 at 1:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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bsphil wrote:
LordMethos wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I wish they would start selling new retainers. I would buy 3 today.
Definitely! I just need the inventory space.
That can't be good if you're already out of inventory space after 8 days.


I don't see it as good or bad - it just is. Having NQ, +1, +2, and +3 of every bit of junk out there certainly makes it a lot harder to hold on to stuff.
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#32 Sep 30 2010 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
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My issues with retainers in the market is that only a few will load at a time, and the targeting with a dpad can make it difficult.
#33 Sep 30 2010 at 1:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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4 possible versions of every drop is starting to get old. I'm ready to buy another retainer just for gear, because without autosorting, its getting hard to keep track of everything.
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#34 Sep 30 2010 at 1:48 PM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:
4 possible versions of every drop is starting to get old. I'm ready to buy another retainer just for gear, because without autosorting, its getting hard to keep track of everything.
SE wrote:
Just as planned.
Hey, it IS working.
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If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
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#35 Sep 30 2010 at 1:52 PM Rating: Decent
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TwistedOwl wrote:
Myzldas wrote:
dont think there will be an AH at all... the way they're dividing up the markets now makes it look like there's an 'interactive' AH gonna happen..

instead of sorting thru the lists of weapons/armors/crafting stuff, you'll have to physically GO to that section..

finding everyone posting the items on their mule, and see what price they have posted (kinda better than seeing the price of 50 items selling for 1000 gil, ya get that one jerk that posts for 999 gil just so when someone comes along and pays the 1000 gil, they get it first lol)


I was bad about that in XI, my LS friends made fun of me. But when I was going to buy from the AH I started at 1gil every time and had a system of slowly working up just in case someone did that. Got those amazing deals once in a great while because of it, usually it was just time consuming with an inevitable result.

Hmm, that could explain why I don't hate the retainer system as much as others. I'll take the time and be picky with my gil...


I'm a scrooge mcduck when it comes to my gil in game too..

oh, and as for XI, think the best buy that i ever had was getting a weapon that was selling for almost a million gil for like 100,000 .. cant remember what weapon it was ago its been so long ago lol
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#36 Sep 30 2010 at 1:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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KujaKoF wrote:
4 possible versions of every drop is starting to get old. I'm ready to buy another retainer just for gear, because without autosorting, its getting hard to keep track of everything.


Yeah, an Inventory Sort function is absolutely needed. It baffles me that there is no such function existing.
#37 Sep 30 2010 at 2:00 PM Rating: Default
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They charge per character because in reality, you only need one and theyd like to limit space.

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 4:00pm by Fishraper
#38 Sep 30 2010 at 2:10 PM Rating: Good
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TwistedOwl wrote:


Haven't looked into setting this up myself yet, but according to the Lodestone site, there's a 6 month deal for XIV as well...making it 10.99/month if my math is right...worth noting

11.99/month for the 90day plan

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/envi/envi04.html


Edited, Sep 30th 2010 3:37pm by TwistedOwl



I set my account up with the 3-month option, but I have not bought any crysta yet, nor do I intend to until the market system gets a little better.

I'm hopeful that their planned update will make it easier to locate stuff, but I can also see the problems it will have.

Just my opinion of course, but an AH or search feature is very important to my enjoyment of the game, because I do not enjoy shopping at all. I consider it a waste of time =/

I enjoyed the AH game in XI (I was one of those sell it for 997 gil instead of the 1k in the history type of people. I also did the start at 50% and work my way up slowly to get rare deals) simply because it didn't take much time at all. I could find what I needed, and get it purchased in less than 5 minutes. I could put something up for sale in less than 1 minute and have a reasonable chance of it being bought within a day or two.
#39 Sep 30 2010 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Well, since retainers chocobos are going to basically be the mog house of FFXIV, they'll still have a use even if there was an AH.


I have no idea what I'm talking about. Too much work and not enough FFXIV.

I'm still hoping for the summonable chocobo with 500 inventory slots.
#40 Sep 30 2010 at 2:26 PM Rating: Good
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PinkMermaid wrote:
SE is also one of the only ones that you level multiple, unlimited jobs on one character. In other games (WoW) you can only have 1 job per character.


Although, for comparison's sake:

How many characters do you need in WoW to level every class? 10.

How many characters does Blizzard let you create on a single account (all at no extra charge)? 50.
#41 Sep 30 2010 at 2:31 PM Rating: Decent
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yfaithfully wrote:
The consensus in this thread seems to be that, regardless of what sort of market is implemented, playing this game without paying real money for additional storage space is a practical impossibility.
This makes the claim that it is cheaper than WoW completely bogus.
For one, I am currently playing $41.97 for 3 months of WoW subscription - that is $14 a month, not $15. The 6-month plan comes out to $13 a month - exactly the price of FFXIV.
I realize Blizzard (and NCSoft and every other MMO) has other ways of making money off you (pets, name changes) but you don't really need any of these to be even a high ranking end game content player. They really offer little in the way of help.
FFXIV, however, seems to have a hidden cost that is nearly unavoidable - extra retainers. Even just a second retainer makes FFXIV more expensive than WoW's 6-month plan, and, by estimates on this thread, you can expect 5-10 retainers to be necessary for avid players. That makes FFXIV substantially more expensive than WoW, and that's not factoring in server transfers or additional toons (given you only get one, if you wanna roll with a friend on another server you'll either need a transfer or a second character - keep in mind in WoW you get 50 characters).
If you factor in the ambitious (ridiculously high-end) hardware requirements, this seems like a very expensive endeavor compared to any other MMO out there - misleadingly so.


I assume you're not aware that FFXIV also has a discounted payment method for 3 & 6 month subscriptions. This was oddly left that out of your post...

Also, its hardly SE's fault that your P4 2.5ghz machine that you play WoW on cannot run FFXIV.
We have two computers in my house, and the one that is 2 years old plays FFXIV very well.

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 4:33pm by MinosGraedus
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#42 Sep 30 2010 at 2:47 PM Rating: Decent
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
That can't be good if you're already out of inventory space after 8 days.



I filled up all 160 slots I have between my character and retainer in 2 days. Since all the crafting classes are so reliant on each for parts I have pretty much leveled every crafting class to rank 10 since it is quicker to do that then search through the grab heap that is called "market wards"


MinosGraedus wrote:
I assume you're not aware that FFXIV also has a discounted payment method for 3 & 6 month subscriptions. This was oddly left that out of your post...



Oh I don't remember seeing a long term discount option. Will have to check into if I choose to stick out the growing pains of this game out.

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 4:53pm by darkasmodai|WH
#43 Sep 30 2010 at 3:54 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
RufuSwho wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Well, since retainers chocobos are going to basically be the mog house of FFXIV, they'll still have a use even if there was an AH.


I have no idea what I'm talking about. Too much work and not enough FFXIV.

I'm still hoping for the summonable chocobo with 500 inventory slots.
I'd be worried about where you're packing the items with this chocobo...
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