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Someone needs to explain the logic of the crafting systemFollow

#1 Sep 30 2010 at 11:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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I just don't understand certain things. Basically what I've found is that in order to craft successfully at rank 10 or higher, I need to upgrade my crafting tools. The first problem I run into is that I'm required to have at LEAST 3-4 crafts leveled just to make the tools. Ok, they want everything to be intertwined... I get the concept. The main problem I have is when certain items, for instance a Bronze Cross-Pein Hammer (rank 7 blacksmith tool), requires Undyed Canvas, a rank 21 weaving synth. Uh, excuse me? So let me get this straight... I will fail a good portion of the rank 10+ synths with the starter tools because that's the way the system works, but in order to make the tools that will allow me to NOT fail, I need to have a class at rank 21?

Someone really needs to make me understand the logic to this, because as it is currently I have become so unbelievably frustrated with the crafting system that I want to just give it up completely. That makes me sad, because I actually LIKE crafting. I like the mini-game, I like the ability to craft all my own gear. But if it is going to require me to rank up 4-5 different crafts just to make 1 item of CONSIDERABLY lower rank, why bother? Is there actually any justification to this system or is this just another case of SE throwing a gigantic time-sink at us and playing it off as "complete customization!"?
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#2 Sep 30 2010 at 11:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Logic? in Final Craftasy XIV?! WHAT HERESY IS THIS?!
#3 Sep 30 2010 at 11:51 AM Rating: Good
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6,898 posts
SudoNemesis wrote:
Logic? in Final Craftasy XIV?! WHAT HERESY IS THIS?!


Haha, that deserves a rate up.
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Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
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#4 Sep 30 2010 at 11:52 AM Rating: Good
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They don't expect you have 21+ weaver, but they expect you to know one and be able to talk them into making the item for you. I get the concept, but constantly feeling the need to hunt down other crafters or bug friends to make even simple synths (or what would be expected to be simple synths) is more of a pain to me that I'm more likely just to level weaver myself.

I'm guessing this is all set in a way to really make the classes interdependent on each other, but I agree it is frustrating.
#5 Sep 30 2010 at 11:53 AM Rating: Good
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You put the thingamajig in the doohickey and turn the whatchamacallit until that thingamabob goes wonky after that you're home free.
#6 Sep 30 2010 at 11:54 AM Rating: Good
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I have to agree. SE should put higher rank crafting tools up for sale on NPCs until there is a certain number of higher level crafters on the servers. This is one complaint I agree with wholeheartedly. The only saving grace is at least some crafts have easy-to-make tools - so they will at least be able to make the stuff for our tools.

Poor carpenter though - the saw handle for the level 7 saw is at least a rank 15 synth... and then I need iron rivets as well... so at least some carpenters will have to rank up past 15 with the level 1 saw before we can make the mats to upgrade our saws. It is pretty harsh. I put something in the feedback forums about it: http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=173&mid=128579176024497687&page=1

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#7 Sep 30 2010 at 11:55 AM Rating: Good
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The logic is you must dos it!
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#8 Sep 30 2010 at 11:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Smelly wrote:
You put the thingamajig in the doohickey and turn the whatchamacallit until that thingamabob goes wonky after that you're home free.


I'm glad you said it because now I don't have to.
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#9 Sep 30 2010 at 11:55 AM Rating: Good
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Best I can say is don't try to do it all yourself. Search the wards for the needed items. Maybe that'll be a bit improved when they make the changes. More importantly, make friends with people focusing on those other crafts. Between the 2 LS I have going currently, we got a good thing going with helping each other get mats from other classes and I know when I'm in the wards I'll also look for stuff people need. They do the same for me.

A lot of people are annoyed with the undyed canvas one on my server. There's only one 20+ weaver that I've seen and he has them bazaared for insane amounts. I'm gettin' there myself though, hit 18 earlier today.

As for "needing" the best tools & crafting gear...I dunno...I'm sure it helps, but I only have gloves & a scarf plus my undies on when i craft. Weavers are lucky though, our needles are so easy to make...
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#10 Sep 30 2010 at 11:56 AM Rating: Default
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You made a MAJOR mistake in the outset of your question. SE and logic. Those tow words do not belong in the same phone book together.

My advice, and it sucks man i'm sorry......level em all....Let SE get there money from ya. In two+ years at 10$ a month + game costs you'll have paid SE about 300+ dollars for all that digital time. You'll be rewarded with your hard effort by being able to make what ever you want. Of course you'll have to never sleep because you'll have to farm your mats, or not join a LS doing content.....hmmm sounds like we're *******
#11 Sep 30 2010 at 11:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Its the growing pains of launch.

Theres no crafting community yet. Once the first set of people make the grind to 50 all the crafters after will have a much easier time. The only advantage you get to ruching to the top right now is to set prices first.
#12 Sep 30 2010 at 11:59 AM Rating: Good
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6,898 posts
yeah, weaver definitely got the luckiest for their first upgrade. I remember spamming the bronze needles in open beta because they were so easy to make, sold decently, and skilled up another craft.
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Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#13 Sep 30 2010 at 12:05 PM Rating: Excellent
Yes, there's a justification behind the system. First, you have to keep firmly in mind that SE designed the system with the intent that if you enjoy the role of a crafter and it's all you really want to do, you'll find the option to do that in XIV. If you look at it from the point of view of a crafter in a currently underdeveloped marketplace, it's frustrating. Regardless of how the marketplace develops, if you look at it from the point of view of "I will make everything myself" it's going to be a long haul. If you look at it from the point of view of a specialized crafter a year from now (ie. someone only leveling one or two DoH classes), they will find that they have an interdependence on all other DoH classes at various different ranks. We tend to see it as, "I need 21+ weaver to make Undyed Canvas for my rank 7 blacksmith hammer" whereas a year from now it will seem more like, "I'm a 25 weaver and there are items I can make that are in steady demand for blacksmiths."

The rank spread is part of the interdependence that will make crafting as a focus a more robust activity than simply stockpiling mats and pounding out synths for skillup/profit. If you insist on looking at it from the point of view of wanting to make everything yourself right now, you're going to be disappointed/frustrated, because that's not what the system is intended to allow you to do easily.
#14 Sep 30 2010 at 12:08 PM Rating: Good
Basically I made my own bronze needles cause I noticed I'd need weaver, blacksmithing, and armoring to make my own armor. So, I lvl'd weaver up first again because I noticed it's mats needed the highest lvl to make the other mats for blacksmithing and armoring.

It's complicated, to say the least.
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#15 Sep 30 2010 at 12:24 PM Rating: Excellent
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Yes, there's a justification behind the system. First, you have to keep firmly in mind that SE designed the system with the intent that if you enjoy the role of a crafter and it's all you really want to do, you'll find the option to do that in XIV. If you look at it from the point of view of a crafter in a currently underdeveloped marketplace, it's frustrating. Regardless of how the marketplace develops, if you look at it from the point of view of "I will make everything myself" it's going to be a long haul. If you look at it from the point of view of a specialized crafter a year from now (ie. someone only leveling one or two DoH classes), they will find that they have an interdependence on all other DoH classes at various different ranks. We tend to see it as, "I need 21+ weaver to make Undyed Canvas for my rank 7 blacksmith hammer" whereas a year from now it will seem more like, "I'm a 25 weaver and there are items I can make that are in steady demand for blacksmiths."

The rank spread is part of the interdependence that will make crafting as a focus a more robust activity than simply stockpiling mats and pounding out synths for skillup/profit. If you insist on looking at it from the point of view of wanting to make everything yourself right now, you're going to be disappointed/frustrated, because that's not what the system is intended to allow you to do easily.


I agree and disagree with this. I love the idea of craft interdependence. However, needing an item only craftable by a class rank 3 times the rank of the tool is pretty ridiculous. If it were within 5 to 7 levels I probably wouldn't have a problem with it. I understand it will even out as more crafters come online and that you cannot expect to do everything yourself, but it's still not going to be pleasant for new crafters because the services of higher level crafters are never going to be cheap.
#16 Sep 30 2010 at 12:28 PM Rating: Good
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There's nothing wrong with the crafting system, it's actually done very very well, it'll have longer legs than FFXI's. It's the market system that's the problem. There are probably a few of those rank 21 components around already, but no one can find them. Once the market system is fixed, and some of the crafters get a few ranks under their belts, the crafters will switch to profit mode and start churning out say, a stack of Bone Harpoon Butts, a stack of Gladii Blades and throwing them up for sale. It's frustrating now because the component market hasn't taken hold yet.

Edit: Correction, by very very well, I mean the interdependancy. The interface is horrible.

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 2:34pm by Yodabunny
#17 Sep 30 2010 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Yes, there's a justification behind the system. First, you have to keep firmly in mind that SE designed the system with the intent that if you enjoy the role of a crafter and it's all you really want to do, you'll find the option to do that in XIV. If you look at it from the point of view of a crafter in a currently underdeveloped marketplace, it's frustrating. Regardless of how the marketplace develops, if you look at it from the point of view of "I will make everything myself" it's going to be a long haul. If you look at it from the point of view of a specialized crafter a year from now (ie. someone only leveling one or two DoH classes), they will find that they have an interdependence on all other DoH classes at various different ranks. We tend to see it as, "I need 21+ weaver to make Undyed Canvas for my rank 7 blacksmith hammer" whereas a year from now it will seem more like, "I'm a 25 weaver and there are items I can make that are in steady demand for blacksmiths."

The rank spread is part of the interdependence that will make crafting as a focus a more robust activity than simply stockpiling mats and pounding out synths for skillup/profit. If you insist on looking at it from the point of view of wanting to make everything yourself right now, you're going to be disappointed/frustrated, because that's not what the system is intended to allow you to do easily.


Tbh, this really is a great explanation and exactly what I was looking for. I guess the biggest issue I have is that although I don't mind relying on others for materials or certain synths, I kind of thought the point of the crafting system in this game was to be able to do things for yourself from start to finish. Perhaps I have just misinterpreted this, but that is really what I want. I want to be able to craft my own armor start to finish. I want to make all my own weapons and tools and not HAVE to rely on others that might try to overinflate certain materials or price gouge hard to make items. As it stands right now, doing that is unbelievably demanding, frustrating, and time intensive. I suppose that is what SE intended, but for me that just isn't what I was hoping for or expecting, especially when the system was explained as being completely open and customizable, when really you are just being pigeonholed into MANY classes as opposed to 1 or 2.
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Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#18 Sep 30 2010 at 12:50 PM Rating: Decent
The Glorious SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Yes, there's a justification behind the system. First, you have to keep firmly in mind that SE designed the system with the intent that if you enjoy the role of a crafter and it's all you really want to do, you'll find the option to do that in XIV. If you look at it from the point of view of a crafter in a currently underdeveloped marketplace, it's frustrating. Regardless of how the marketplace develops, if you look at it from the point of view of "I will make everything myself" it's going to be a long haul. If you look at it from the point of view of a specialized crafter a year from now (ie. someone only leveling one or two DoH classes), they will find that they have an interdependence on all other DoH classes at various different ranks. We tend to see it as, "I need 21+ weaver to make Undyed Canvas for my rank 7 blacksmith hammer" whereas a year from now it will seem more like, "I'm a 25 weaver and there are items I can make that are in steady demand for blacksmiths."

The rank spread is part of the interdependence that will make crafting as a focus a more robust activity than simply stockpiling mats and pounding out synths for skillup/profit. If you insist on looking at it from the point of view of wanting to make everything yourself right now, you're going to be disappointed/frustrated, because that's not what the system is intended to allow you to do easily.


I agree and disagree with this. I love the idea of craft interdependence. However, needing an item only craftable by a class rank 3 times the rank of the tool is pretty ridiculous. If it were within 5 to 7 levels I probably wouldn't have a problem with it. I understand it will even out as more crafters come online and that you cannot expect to do everything yourself, but it's still not going to be pleasant for new crafters because the services of higher level crafters are never going to be cheap.


The crafting system is tiered like any other MMO I've played. Tier one (ranks 1-10) is mostly components with a few shabby bits here and there. Tier 2 (11-20) is when things start to get interesting. Tier 3 (21-30) introduces a bit more, etc. etc.

If you look at it from a rank gap, it might seem excessive. If you look at it from a tier gap, it's only one tier above providing components for the tier below.
#19 Sep 30 2010 at 1:09 PM Rating: Excellent
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
The Glorious SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Yes, there's a justification behind the system. First, you have to keep firmly in mind that SE designed the system with the intent that if you enjoy the role of a crafter and it's all you really want to do, you'll find the option to do that in XIV. If you look at it from the point of view of a crafter in a currently underdeveloped marketplace, it's frustrating. Regardless of how the marketplace develops, if you look at it from the point of view of "I will make everything myself" it's going to be a long haul. If you look at it from the point of view of a specialized crafter a year from now (ie. someone only leveling one or two DoH classes), they will find that they have an interdependence on all other DoH classes at various different ranks. We tend to see it as, "I need 21+ weaver to make Undyed Canvas for my rank 7 blacksmith hammer" whereas a year from now it will seem more like, "I'm a 25 weaver and there are items I can make that are in steady demand for blacksmiths."

The rank spread is part of the interdependence that will make crafting as a focus a more robust activity than simply stockpiling mats and pounding out synths for skillup/profit. If you insist on looking at it from the point of view of wanting to make everything yourself right now, you're going to be disappointed/frustrated, because that's not what the system is intended to allow you to do easily.


I agree and disagree with this. I love the idea of craft interdependence. However, needing an item only craftable by a class rank 3 times the rank of the tool is pretty ridiculous. If it were within 5 to 7 levels I probably wouldn't have a problem with it. I understand it will even out as more crafters come online and that you cannot expect to do everything yourself, but it's still not going to be pleasant for new crafters because the services of higher level crafters are never going to be cheap.


The crafting system is tiered like any other MMO I've played. Tier one (ranks 1-10) is mostly components with a few shabby bits here and there. Tier 2 (11-20) is when things start to get interesting. Tier 3 (21-30) introduces a bit more, etc. etc.

If you look at it from a rank gap, it might seem excessive. If you look at it from a tier gap, it's only one tier above providing components for the tier below.


I get the tier system and that would be fine but synthesis success is based on rank. At rank 7 if I tried a rank 21 synth I would fail in spectacular fashion but if I try a rank 8 synth I have a chance of succeeding. My issue with it is since there is such a huge difference in the required ranks that a newer blacksmith with 20k in gil may end up spending 10k buying the mats that he/she can't make. Now they just spent half their gil and may yet fail the synth. Basically by keeping the rank requirements close you give people less of an excuse to gouge the crafters just starting out just because they can. Higher end tools? Yeah, make them hard to get. Beginning or close to beginning tools should be NPC obtainable if you want people to keep crafting.
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