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Exploit or not?Follow

#1 Oct 01 2010 at 10:24 AM Rating: Decent
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So i posted this over in the Gladiator forum.. but thought id get everyones Opinion. There is currently a way to get MP by equipping both the Thaumaturge's and Conjurer's Mp restore albilities.Switch jobs use ability, then switch back. In beta.. when you switched jobs you had to reassign abilities, and the timers would reset. But now, the abilities dont reset, thus timers dont. So if you stagger what you use you can refresh MP every 5min. This was very useful on my Gladiator build for cures. Now certin people are saying this is an exploit due to that these are job specific abilities. I just wanted to add in one more bit of info... when you do switch jobs, and use the MP ability.. you get the message "Preparing to use<name of ability>... This seems to be there by design to keep you from doing this on the fly. How can something that seems to be by design and a purposly implemented delay be an exploit?
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#2 Oct 01 2010 at 10:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think you would get in trouble for doing this, but I'm sure it won't last long. If you feel that you are abusing the system you should report it to a GM.
#3 Oct 01 2010 at 10:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Exactly the same as how the cure bug can be considered an exploit. It was in the game but was a game breaking feature as it allowed you to level up extremely quickly.
#4 Oct 01 2010 at 10:31 AM Rating: Good
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Please don't mess up being able to keep that on the bar ...

>.>

I'm a con that likes to mine and log... and I don't want it to go back to the old way where I lost all my MP with no way to refill it for 10 minutes.
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#5 Oct 01 2010 at 10:40 AM Rating: Good
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lol. People need to stop getting all worried about exploits. Stuff like that is not an exploit, it's just a nice trick... Could theoretically be an oversight that'll be patched someday if considered OP, but it's definitely not an "exploit"...

Something like pulling a crapton of mobs, holding them, and hitting a macro over and over for 30 minutes and gaining multiple levels at a time is a bit different than finding a trick with an ability that helps you regain mana.
#6 Oct 01 2010 at 10:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Can't change jobs while engaged, I see nothing game breaking about this. I can equip healing skills from 3 different jobs and use them all without switching jobs, that's more game breaking than this.
#7 Oct 01 2010 at 11:16 AM Rating: Good
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I don't think this is an exploit.
#8 Oct 01 2010 at 11:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Exactly.. nothing about this breaks the game or causes you to be able to level or do anything above what is intended. Its just a nice cross job ability
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#9 Oct 01 2010 at 11:19 AM Rating: Decent
SleeplessMickey wrote:
I don't think you would get in trouble for doing this, but I'm sure it won't last long. If you feel that you are abusing the system you should report it to a GM.


Seconded, and well said :)
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#10 Oct 01 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Excellent
Eldonia wrote:
lol. People need to stop getting all worried about exploits. Stuff like that is not an exploit, it's just a nice trick... Could theoretically be an oversight that'll be patched someday if considered OP, but it's definitely not an "exploit"...

Something like pulling a crapton of mobs, holding them, and hitting a macro over and over for 30 minutes and gaining multiple levels at a time is a bit different than finding a trick with an ability that helps you regain mana.


You didn't play 11 did you? People tend to be more cautious about this because SE has been heavy with the ban hammer in the past. SE's normal way of dealing with problems is Ban now, ask questions later. This last issue with the Cure Exploit is a completely different way of handling this issue for SE. It’s nice to see but I don't expect it every time.
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#11 Oct 01 2010 at 11:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Stygian spikes keeps me filled with MP too, is that an abuse? It certainly is less of an assle than changing jobs...

My only worry about those 2 moves is if you have CON and THM leveled, do they share cooldown or allow you to regen 50% mana twice every 10 minutes? If that's the case, I can see it get nerfed to 25% (or share the cooldown)
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#12 Oct 01 2010 at 11:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Docent42 wrote:
Stygian spikes keeps me filled with MP too, is that an abuse? It certainly is less of an assle than changing jobs...

My only worry about those 2 moves is if you have CON and THM leveled, do they share cooldown or allow you to regen 50% mana twice every 10 minutes? If that's the case, I can see it get nerfed to 25% (or share the cooldown)


I'm pretty sure you aren't able to put them on other classes so you can't have both abilities on CON, for example.
#13 Oct 01 2010 at 11:35 AM Rating: Good
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I want stygian spikes. NEED to level THM. Wish it stacked with shockspikes though.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#14 Oct 01 2010 at 11:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Can you cast Stygian/Shock Spikes on others?
#15 Oct 01 2010 at 11:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Yodabunny wrote:
Can't change jobs while engaged, I see nothing game breaking about this. I can equip healing skills from 3 different jobs and use them all without switching jobs, that's more game breaking than this.


Agreed. Now if you found a way to do it in combat, then yes it would be an exploit. But changing jobs on the fly is exactly how this game is designed.
#16 Oct 01 2010 at 11:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Yodabunny wrote:
Can't change jobs while engaged, I see nothing game breaking about this. I can equip healing skills from 3 different jobs and use them all without switching jobs, that's more game breaking than this.


Except that healing skills get nerfed when used on other jobs. Marauder's Bloodbath drops from about 70% of damage given back to about 50%, or at least that's how it was in Beta.
#17 Oct 01 2010 at 12:14 PM Rating: Default
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The One and Only toohotforu wrote:
Eldonia wrote:
lol. People need to stop getting all worried about exploits. Stuff like that is not an exploit, it's just a nice trick... Could theoretically be an oversight that'll be patched someday if considered OP, but it's definitely not an "exploit"...

Something like pulling a crapton of mobs, holding them, and hitting a macro over and over for 30 minutes and gaining multiple levels at a time is a bit different than finding a trick with an ability that helps you regain mana.


You didn't play 11 did you? People tend to be more cautious about this because SE has been heavy with the ban hammer in the past. SE's normal way of dealing with problems is Ban now, ask questions later. This last issue with the Cure Exploit is a completely different way of handling this issue for SE. It’s nice to see but I don't expect it every time.



I did play XI, for like six years. =x

I was just stating my two cents that something like this is not going to be considered an "exploit"
#18 Oct 01 2010 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
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If SE tried to ban me for doing something that is allowed by their game mechanics, I'd open a class action suit. Need to stop letting corporations do what ever they want, and hold them accountable.
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#19 Oct 01 2010 at 1:10 PM Rating: Decent
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by definition, it is an exploit (a bug or defect you are using to gain an advantage). With that being said, what advantage are you getting? A temporary boon on your MP whenever you want.

Exploits like this are not something that SE will likely ban over (your character does not level or become better from it, e.g. no more exp, gil, or gear), it just makes your life easier... Ok, you can get more exp cause you can waste more MP (and in many ways MP is exp for mages)... So likely this will never get a thumbs up from SE.

As long as people are not abusing it, they will most likely consider it a "We should fix this some time". However, as it gets more and more abused SE will put it as a higher priority to fix. And unless they make a statement about repercussions it doesn't matter much I would guess. But, by simple definition, you are taking advantage of a design flaw.

The most likely result of this is that class ability timers will always restart when switching jobs, even though you don't have to equip them, or those two abilities will work off a shared timer..

Personally I don't have MP problems, so I don't see myself ever using this, but meh, I could see why people like it.

Now, if we started the game and abilities were enabled the way they are now, it would be assumed it was intentional (because we did not see how SE wanted them to be used), however, we can not use that excuse, because we do know, and now it's an issue of if SE will fix it, or acknowledge it as acceptable functionality.
#20 Oct 01 2010 at 1:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Maybe your bugged? I keep both of these on my bar at the end. When I switch jobs (Glad at that) they where grayed out unless something has changed or my memory is shot. Ill find out when I get home. I spam damnation for my MP regain, but if that works....
#21 Oct 01 2010 at 1:39 PM Rating: Good
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182 posts
Just to clarify... i keep both these on .. but as Gladiator they ARE greyed out.. i have to change jobs to use them. Also when you switch jobs your HP drop. So SE might be taking this into consideration as an exceptible punishment for using this ability. And i think this is most useful on the jobs that have no way to restore MP naturally. For example a Paladin build or Dark knight build. Mage builds most likely dont run into the mp delima
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#22 Oct 01 2010 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent
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The reason for this is: If you switch out of a DoM class to say cut some grass, then switch back to DoM, you lose about half of your MP and the timer resets on the MP skill. Now it doesn't reset the timer so you aren't getting boned as bad as in beta.
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