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Synthesizing, 85% chance to fail?Follow

#1 Oct 01 2010 at 11:19 AM Rating: Default
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Level 10 Goldsmith, making copper earrings, failed 5 out of 6 times.

Level 8 Blacksmith, doing level 5 levequest, failed 4 out of 4 times.

Insert 100 more experiences JUST LIKE THIS.

I know all about the "waiting for the thing to turn white so its most stable" and guess what, i fail MORE when its "stable".

can someone tell me what the **** i'm doing wrong here?

Or is the game designed so that 85% of my time is wasted, what better way to keep me paying right?

......

-derek
#2 Oct 01 2010 at 11:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Armanda wrote:
Level 10 Goldsmith, making copper earrings, failed 5 out of 6 times.

Level 8 Blacksmith, doing level 5 levequest, failed 4 out of 4 times.

Insert 100 more experiences JUST LIKE THIS.

I know all about the "waiting for the thing to turn white so its most stable" and guess what, i fail MORE when its "stable".

can someone tell me what the **** i'm doing wrong here?

Or is the game designed so that 85% of my time is wasted, what better way to keep me paying right?

......

-derek



your not the only one i cant complete level 1 quest right now as a lvl 20 armorsmith. I read the new post on lodestone and switched tactics accordingly and still fail. I repair my gear and upgrade my weapon and still fail. The screwed up thing is i get more succeses with rapid on red then i do and standard hit on white.

Also i was crafting stuff much more successfully before yesterdays "fix"

and yes i know some people are doing better now i just think there was more to this bug they had to fix.
#3 Oct 01 2010 at 11:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Stop spamming rapid
#4 Oct 01 2010 at 11:25 AM Rating: Decent
^
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#5 Oct 01 2010 at 11:26 AM Rating: Decent
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ShonaSeraph wrote:
Stop spamming rapid


OniElvaan the Eccentric wrote:
^



Not all of us are spamming rapid :)
#6 Oct 01 2010 at 11:32 AM Rating: Decent
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I had no problems synthesizing yesterday on rank 10 leves as a rank 12, and even almost succeeded on a rank 15. I just stay the **** away from rapid now that's about it, using standard most of the time with abilites, bold, and wait thrown in there when needed.
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#7 Oct 01 2010 at 11:36 AM Rating: Good
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I too didn't notice a difference other than the change to durability loss on rapid. (They increased it if you haven't read the Dev notes yet.)

It IS a random number generator. Even if it's a 90% success rate you'll fail 5 out of 6 every now and then. And I imagine you're exaggerating it happening 100 times. Yes fails are frustrating but they happen to all of us. Crafting isn't meant to be guaranteed anyhow.
#8 Oct 01 2010 at 11:36 AM Rating: Good
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Are you using crafting gear and your most recent 'optimal rank' tool? Also, did you try with your offhand to see if it would be more successful? All this stuff plays a major role. It's also possible that Asuran armguards provide a hidden boost to crafting success, and that after level 10 or something that bonus wears. After all, most people start having problems after hitting level 10.

I increased my success recently by getting the most up to date main hand tool, and I don't use any synth support (I find I fail more when I do). Hope this helps.
#9 Oct 01 2010 at 11:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Are you using control and craftmanship gear? I've noticed that helps a lot. Also to people failing level 1 leves - do they have a subcraft?
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#10 Oct 01 2010 at 11:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Sefi wrote:
I had no problems synthesizing yesterday on rank 10 leves as a rank 12, and even almost succeeded on a rank 15. I just stay the **** away from rapid now that's about it, using standard most of the time with abilites, bold, and wait thrown in there when needed.



thats the part thats weird i didnt have trouble yesterday either. A good example is bronze chains i could crank those out no problem 1 fail every 10 or so now im lucky to get 1 or 2 every 10 tries. I'm doing standard like the website says and im still failing attempts left and right. I have fellow guildies you are having no problems and others having just as much of a problem as me.

So we tried each to make a level one synth. The ones not having a issue succeeded no problem the others (myself included) failed more than we succeeded.

I really do think this isn't a server wide problem but maybey an issue affecting certain individuals.


AND WE ARE NOT SPAMMING RAPID :P
#11 Oct 01 2010 at 11:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Huh Sadris that does sound buggy. Luckily it seems like synths fixed themselves for me yesterday. However, I also bought and equipped a lot of crafting gear - so it is hard to know what made the difference.

Edited, Oct 1st 2010 10:41am by Olorinus
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#12 Oct 01 2010 at 11:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Huh Sadris that does sound buggy. Luckily it seems like synths fixed themselves for me yesterday. However, I also bought and equipped a lot of crafting gear - so it is hard to know what made the difference.

Edited, Oct 1st 2010 10:41am by Olorinus



i thought it might have been gear myself so i repaired. THat 35k repair bill sucks (another bug affecting me ). still no difference.

#13 Oct 01 2010 at 11:43 AM Rating: Decent
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/reply this is garbage, we took a craft system that required dedication into learning a "rotation" based on sequence... and made it into a fuster cluck of spam and pray. GG SE, please fix this.
#14 Oct 01 2010 at 11:46 AM Rating: Decent
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sadris wrote:
Sefi wrote:
I had no problems synthesizing yesterday on rank 10 leves as a rank 12, and even almost succeeded on a rank 15. I just stay the **** away from rapid now that's about it, using standard most of the time with abilites, bold, and wait thrown in there when needed.



thats the part thats weird i didnt have trouble yesterday either. A good example is bronze chains i could crank those out no problem 1 fail every 10 or so now im lucky to get 1 or 2 every 10 tries. I'm doing standard like the website says and im still failing attempts left and right. I have fellow guildies you are having no problems and others having just as much of a problem as me.

So we tried each to make a level one synth. The ones not having a issue succeeded no problem the others (myself included) failed more than we succeeded.

I really do think this isn't a server wide problem but maybey an issue affecting certain individuals.


AND WE ARE NOT SPAMMING RAPID :P


Synth fatigue?
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#15 Oct 01 2010 at 11:47 AM Rating: Decent
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ChrisMattern wrote:
sadris wrote:
Sefi wrote:
I had no problems synthesizing yesterday on rank 10 leves as a rank 12, and even almost succeeded on a rank 15. I just stay the **** away from rapid now that's about it, using standard most of the time with abilites, bold, and wait thrown in there when needed.



thats the part thats weird i didnt have trouble yesterday either. A good example is bronze chains i could crank those out no problem 1 fail every 10 or so now im lucky to get 1 or 2 every 10 tries. I'm doing standard like the website says and im still failing attempts left and right. I have fellow guildies you are having no problems and others having just as much of a problem as me.

So we tried each to make a level one synth. The ones not having a issue succeeded no problem the others (myself included) failed more than we succeeded.

I really do think this isn't a server wide problem but maybey an issue affecting certain individuals.


AND WE ARE NOT SPAMMING RAPID :P


Synth fatigue?


how do i tell?
#16 Oct 01 2010 at 11:48 AM Rating: Decent
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sadris wrote:
ChrisMattern wrote:
sadris wrote:
Sefi wrote:
I had no problems synthesizing yesterday on rank 10 leves as a rank 12, and even almost succeeded on a rank 15. I just stay the **** away from rapid now that's about it, using standard most of the time with abilites, bold, and wait thrown in there when needed.



thats the part thats weird i didnt have trouble yesterday either. A good example is bronze chains i could crank those out no problem 1 fail every 10 or so now im lucky to get 1 or 2 every 10 tries. I'm doing standard like the website says and im still failing attempts left and right. I have fellow guildies you are having no problems and others having just as much of a problem as me.

So we tried each to make a level one synth. The ones not having a issue succeeded no problem the others (myself included) failed more than we succeeded.

I really do think this isn't a server wide problem but maybey an issue affecting certain individuals.


AND WE ARE NOT SPAMMING RAPID :P


Synth fatigue?


how do i tell?


Assuming that such a thing exists and it's parallel to gathering fatigue, you tell by the fact that you're failing all your synths, including ones you should be doing easily.
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#17 Oct 01 2010 at 11:48 AM Rating: Default
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I don't see the hate against spamming rapid when the whole colour game still seems totally mysterious to me.
#18 Oct 01 2010 at 11:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I don't see the hate against spamming rapid when the whole colour game still seems totally mysterious to me.


It has already been explained by SE. Just craft smart and you should be fine.

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=6d0b6db28f8c2c446d8e20ffc63fbbf3683177ea
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#19 Oct 01 2010 at 11:52 AM Rating: Decent
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the only issue i have with that theory is why now? i was yellow 2 days ago in xp and now im not. I was gone for 10 hours today before i started this morning. Also if im affected by it then why am i seeing armorer's around me at lvl 22 crafting with no problem?

Not saying your wrong just wondering about the inconsistency in the system if it actually does exists.

Edited, Oct 1st 2010 1:52pm by sadris
#20 Oct 01 2010 at 11:52 AM Rating: Decent
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iv seen an increase in my success rates since the crafting 'fix'. you now have to be mindful of what your doing, actually pay attention to the circumstances, and adjust your decisions accordingly. i pounded out a full 8 leves last night only botching a synth once, afterwards grinding out (nearly) a full 2 levels weaving while failing an extremely limited number of times (probably less than 10 times total for a very long grind session)
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#21 Oct 01 2010 at 11:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Hmm, first time I've seen that clarification. For now though I'll stick to grinding low level recipes while hardly paying attention and spamming rapid though. :P
#22 Oct 01 2010 at 12:04 PM Rating: Decent
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I would be led to believe that even with using the color theory, it's still going to come down to just pure old fashion luck. You win some, you lose some, sometimes more of one than the other.

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#23 Oct 01 2010 at 12:09 PM Rating: Decent
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well of course theres going to be some degree of luck in it, if there wasnt that would just make it too easy and unsatisfying (like WoW crafting). i like the fact that theres risk and failure involved, makes the overall experience more fufilling after youv invested all that time, effort, money, blood, sweat, and tears. if it was as cut and dried as do x synth when at y color it would take all the fun out of it. and lets not forget by increasing the difficulty you reduce the number of people who actually max that craft out, making your items and services all that much more worthwhile if your willing to stick with it.
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#24 Oct 01 2010 at 12:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Elamille wrote:
well of course theres going to be some degree of luck in it, if there wasnt that would just make it too easy and unsatisfying (like WoW crafting). i like the fact that theres risk and failure involved, makes the overall experience more fufilling after youv invested all that time, effort, money, blood, sweat, and tears. if it was as cut and dried as do x synth when at y color it would take all the fun out of it. and lets not forget by increasing the difficulty you reduce the number of people who actually max that craft out, making your items and services all that much more worthwhile if your willing to stick with it.



Even with the problems i'm having im still gonna level my craft. I love the crafting system in this game. I truly believe this is a bug affecting some of us and i hope that something can be done. Even if it isn't and i and a few others are just straight the unluckiest people at the moment i have a very supportive linkshell who will just keep throwing mats at me. I'm starting to keep a record of successes and failures on white with standard in order to see if it will even out in the long run. Ill do this all day and let you all know the results tonight.
#25 Oct 01 2010 at 12:38 PM Rating: Default
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right on.

I don't "spam" rapid PER SAY but I surely hit it a lot.

I'll stop doing that and use it sparingly and just use wait and standard, and see if i can get my "understanding" of how its working on par.

The fact that its working for some and not for others is 1 of 2 things: a bug, or knowing how to do it. Until someone shows me a bug i'll just assume i'm not getting it quite right yet and that practice will eventually make better than 85% fail.


Edited, Oct 1st 2010 12:41pm by Armanda
#26 Oct 01 2010 at 12:44 PM Rating: Good
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The rapid wait rapid wait synth process was what I used before they patched in the fix. I guess they thought it was too easy. Now, that strategy will net me a failure no matter what level I am. However, standard synth has gotten a boost to success, so I use that much more often. I rarely use rapid unless its a last ditch effort to get a item made due to having 30 percent to go and only 20 durability left.


Edited, Oct 1st 2010 2:45pm by Castrophany
#27 Oct 01 2010 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
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Well now that they have clarified what colors mean it makes crafting easier to me for **** sure.

So now when I see that my quality is low and its white I use bold to bolster it up.

Then standard if progress and durability both seem to increase upon successful synths. If Im running low on durability I will pop a rapid for a 30% progress boost. Many things I make that Im too high for are done in 3 synths. Standard rapid standard for 20 30 20 is 70% done with 85ish durability left.

Great for synths that you know you have made a billion times and dont have to worry about failing super easy synths anymore.

Now I need to get something to class lvl 20.
#28 Oct 01 2010 at 12:54 PM Rating: Decent
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I've switched to only using rapid if I'm desperate... and blinding speed is up... Rapid is very risky now as opposed to being safe.

Standard > Wait on flashing orbs > Standard works well enough. Just takes longer.
#29 Oct 01 2010 at 2:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Hydragyrum wrote:
Crafting isn't meant to be guaranteed anyhow in a SE game where the developers think little of skill and believe everything should be ruled by the almighty RNG, success rate shown on your screen be damned!


FTFY

Edited, Oct 1st 2010 4:22pm by StrijderVechter
#30 Oct 01 2010 at 2:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Pay close attention to the orb color during synthesis. The different colors provide different chance of success for each action. Some guarantee failure and MUST be waited out. My sample size is fairly small currently to confirm the exact effects of any non-white orbs, but it does appear to be somewhat correct. In either case if you unsure, when the orb is not glowing white, choose wait. You should loose 1 point on the first, 2 points on the second and 3 points on the third wait cycle if you have to do it consecutively at most.



I did not write this guide, but i've been able to confirm the results with Goldmisthing and Alchemy so far
Crafting Guide

Exert:
  • You will notice that once you start crafting, a small glowing orb, solid white, will appear in your hand, or on your work platform. This is a synthesis "indicator" as I prefer to call it. The color of the orb can indicate various things, and can sway your decision of your next synthesis option. The colors, and their meanings to you, are as follows:

    (The following images may not show it the best, but they try to depict each situation being described)


    Solid White - This is the most stable form of your synthesis. All synthesis options here, Standard Rapid and Bold, have the highest rates of success in this form. Every synthesis will begin Solid white. The only downside to a Solid white Orb, that I've personally observed, is there is a decreased quality gain from success in a synthesis attempt.



    Solid Yellow - This is a stable state, which favors Rapid Synthesis. You will have an increased rate of success when attempting rapid synthesis on a solid yellow colored orb. Even if you fail the attempt, its usually something like a 15% progress gain, with only 7 durability loss. A success by anyone's account, even if the system says otherwise.



    Solid Red - This is a stable state, which favors bold synthesis. You will have an increased rate of success when attempting rapid synthesis on a solid red colored orb. A word of warning however: Even with the increased rate of success, bold synthesis is a risky option in any case, unless the craft is very low level, and you are a higher level. Failing this synthesis will still be very harmful to your durability. Personally, I use Standard Synthesis on this color.



    Flashing/Multi Colored - This is an unstable state. This is a risky time to attempt any synthesis, unless you are sure of what you are doing. If you fail a synthesis attempt while the orb is flashing, you risk an element in your synthesis becoming unstable. Unstable elements will persist until they become stable again by either successful synthesis attempts, or by waiting. If you attempt a synthesis option, and fail, the unstable element can possibly explode, or "Grow Chaotic". This will result in a massive durability loss, and even losing 1/2 of your total quality, which nobody wants. The upside to a flashing orb, if you succeed a synthesis, particularly standard or bold, you will experience a much increased quality gain. Personally, Ive gained 115 from Bold, or 65 from standard, by succeeding during a flashing orb. Its a risky process however, so be warned.

    (This image is hard to tell that its actually flashing, due to it being a still image.)


    Another affect that can be experienced while crafting, is sparks that will fly out from the orb. These will start to occur after failing a Bold or Rapid synthesis, and can occur after multiple failures of Standard synthesis. These sparks can grow increasingly, the more you fail. What they do, is cause your overall success rate for any type of synthesis to decrease, cause the progress of successes to be lower, and cause overall durability loss to be higher. You need to be careful with these, as there is no way to decrease them, and they can quickly snowball into a broken synthesis.

    (The sparks are hard to see here, but they are indeed coming out of the orb, they are much more noticeable in real time)


  • Edited, Oct 1st 2010 4:40pm by Vladislaus

    *fixed some typoes*

    Edited, Oct 1st 2010 4:41pm by Vladislaus
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