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The proof is in the puddingFollow

#1 Oct 01 2010 at 12:21 PM Rating: Good
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I know I will get rated into oblivion for this but its something I think some people might want to see. I remember people saying "What do the Japanese players think about FFXIV?" Well here is a small taste, I didn't bother to translate the reviews of people but I think the star rating's will show you enough.

http://www.amazon.co.jp/product-reviews/B003UHVPDG/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
#2 Oct 01 2010 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
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wow! its almost a good thing because now SE will be more into listening to our suggestions and implementing them.

if japan had loved the game with 5 stars we would never the things we want but now we most likely will because of a sinking ship panic at SE to keep subs and gain more.
#3 Oct 01 2010 at 12:28 PM Rating: Decent
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The problem might be...it's not even 100 ratings, the other 1.000.000 people are playing happily, mindlessly. Nah, not going to bash the game, it's lovely for the most part, me's just taking a break until the retainer stuff is sorted out. But yea, not sure how accurate all this is, and how it reflects the whole Japanese playerbase.

Interesting nontheless, though I doubt it's going to do anything to the game really.
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#4 Oct 01 2010 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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I'm interested in translations myself, is it the same sort of complaints the westerners have had?
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#5 Oct 01 2010 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent
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what it really boils down to is that people are much more likely to be vocal about a complaint than a compliment. just check these forums for evidence. you can find 100 posts about slow downloaders, lack of ah, no inventory sort, etc but how many posts do you see from people saying 'im really impressed with the graphics!', 'the opening storylines have me foaming at the mouth for more!', 'the ability to adjust the degree of difficulty for quests is awesome'. people who enjoy the game are busy spending time playing it while the disgruntled trolls troll.
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#6 Oct 01 2010 at 12:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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#7 Oct 01 2010 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
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"I hope everyone will, FF14 has just been betrayed splendidly."

-Yummy
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#8 Oct 01 2010 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
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Thanks ghost, i was in the process of doing the google translate deal.
#9 Oct 01 2010 at 12:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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When Chrome translated it for me, one reviewer said

"Tired of licking an exhausted user management."


And I couldn't agree more.
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#10 Oct 01 2010 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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striveldt wrote:
When Chrome translated it for me, one reviewer said

"Tired of licking an exhausted user management."


And I couldn't agree more.


Smiley: laugh
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#11 Oct 01 2010 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
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That's a lot of one stars :D. Good to know that we are not just being a bunch of whinny foreigners.

Also.....How do you lick the UI?
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#12 Oct 01 2010 at 12:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
what it really boils down to is that people are much more likely to be vocal about a complaint than a compliment.


Because 5 star ratings never exist on Amazon, mirite?!

http://www.amazon.com/Halo-Reach-Xbox-360/product-reviews/B002BSA20M/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

There's a ton of halo haters, and yet that somehow got tons of 5 stars. Wow, your mind must be blown right now.

Edited, Oct 1st 2010 3:00pm by TheLufia
#13 Oct 01 2010 at 1:02 PM Rating: Good
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Duh, I should've thought to use google translations in the first place. Sounds like it is actually much the same, from the review shown before the actual review section:

Quote:
Can not reorder the items →
クラス毎のアクション記憶→出来ません → can not remember every class action
tell(特定個人との1:1会話)の一発返信→出来ません tell (a person with a 1:1 conversation) → able to reply from one of

Quote:
Too, and for the movement itself Mossari game
NPC only sell goods to a quest (in this world is called Reeve) takes more time.
Warehouse (retainer), but to leave things, often take several minutes.
Also to start producing, unable Hazime Hiraku enough, spend too much time to make one juice.
Could be anything, just "slow" is like the world over.


This one is almost a haiku.
Quote:
The department will consider such a house or not?
Nanbaringutaitoru that was only because of confidence in,
What I actually played it?


Slow advancement, a player based economy with overly difficult trade, no inventory sort, can't easily communicate with other players. Yeah, it's pretty much the same sort of issues.
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#14 Oct 01 2010 at 1:02 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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FanciatheDragonkeeper wrote:
The problem might be...it's not even 100 ratings, the other 1.000.000 people are playing happily
Wow, talk about denial.

By the way, 1 million people is an extremely generous number, FFXI at best only hit 550k, I wouldn't imagine FFXIV doing much better. Since it's just at release as well, probably more like 200k at best.
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#15 Oct 01 2010 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good
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I don't get it. If you enjoy the game, who cares what others say? if you don't like the game, move on. Bsphil all I see you post are negative remarks. we get it, there are a lot of things you don't like, so move on. There are plenty of things to enjoy about this game. There are also a lot of things wrong with it, but if you can't get over the things that are wrong and spend your time enjoying the good parts, then really why are you still hanging around?

Edited, Oct 1st 2010 3:06pm by xGaelx
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#16 Oct 01 2010 at 1:10 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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xGaelx wrote:
Bsphil all I see you post are negative remarks. we get it, there are a lot of things you don't like, so move on.
No. I'm waiting for the main problems to get fixed so I can go buy the game for myself.
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#17 Oct 01 2010 at 1:16 PM Rating: Decent
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If you haven't even played the game past beta then what gives you any ethos here? I mean you're waiting for the problems to be fixed like the rest of us. But there is still a lot of fun to be enjoyed from this game. A lot more fun that being a beacon of negative comments here.
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#18 Oct 01 2010 at 1:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
No. I'm waiting for the main problems to get fixed so I can go buy the game for myself.


I bought the game, and I thoroughly enjoy it. Good thing some of us have the ability to think and make decisions for ourselves.



Edited, Oct 1st 2010 3:17pm by AuryanofAsura
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#19 Oct 01 2010 at 1:18 PM Rating: Default
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Why did you bring Halo into this? Those ratings are minuscule. Only a handful out of millions rated on amazon. Other than that I figured there weren't a lot of Japanese playing. I have only seen one Japanese shout since I started a week ago. Maybe they just all picked one server to go to cause they definitely aren't on my server.
#20 Oct 01 2010 at 1:18 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:

Also chat logs, the logs rolled flow of others are not meaningful.

FF14 However, the strong-arm tactics that are widely used to map the terrain itself, copy and paste.
Huh? Same here ... just passing through that level.
Impromptu defeated, you can imagine.

Trend worsened, further improvement could be equal to zero

The retainer system is one more fatal

- Maps (terrain) to use the loincloth
LOL

The graphics are very beautiful. Hi.
HI!

Senile deterioration rather take!

It is just painful.


Almost fell out, like 3 times, for laughing
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#21 Oct 01 2010 at 1:18 PM Rating: Decent
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xGaelx wrote:
A lot more fun that being a beacon of negative comments here.


"Misery loves company."
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#22 Oct 01 2010 at 1:18 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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AuryanofAsura wrote:
Quote:
No. I'm waiting for the main problems to get fixed so I can go buy the game for myself.
I bought the game, and I thoroughly enjoy it. Good thing some of us have the ability to think and make decisions for ourselves.
Good for you.
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Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
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#23 Oct 01 2010 at 1:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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xGaelx wrote:
If you haven't even played the game past beta then what gives you any ethos here? I mean you're waiting for the problems to be fixed like the rest of us. But there is still a lot of fun to be enjoyed from this game. A lot more fun that being a beacon of negative comments here.


I've been playing from CE launch and I can tell you the game is not nearly as fun as it can be, and feels nothing more then Beta-RC2 then retail. There are way too many issues that plauge down the 'fun' aspects so they are no longer fun. I think the main people still playing(myself included) are doing so because we are in our free trial period and it's kinda a waste not to take advantage - OR - they want to get a leg up on the competition in the hopes the game gets fixed in the near future. I'm 100% certain that if there isn't a 'miracle patch' before my trial is up I won't be subscribing until it releases, it's not worth 15USD~ a month right now.
#24 Oct 01 2010 at 1:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elamille wrote:
what it really boils down to is that people are much more likely to be vocal about a complaint than a compliment. just check these forums for evidence. you can find 100 posts about slow downloaders, lack of ah, no inventory sort, etc but how many posts do you see from people saying 'im really impressed with the graphics!', 'the opening storylines have me foaming at the mouth for more!', 'the ability to adjust the degree of difficulty for quests is awesome'. people who enjoy the game are busy spending time playing it while the disgruntled trolls troll.


Yes, but generally the more complaints you see on the forums, the more other people didn't take time out of their daily lives to post on a forum about their distaste, and instead just stopped playing the game.

It would be different if people were arguing about certain classes being overpowered, or certain classes being underpowered, but when the complaints are about things that are so obviously broken, it's hard to dismiss people as trolls.

This game has a worse interface than FFXI. I honestly had no problems with the FFXI interface, I liked it a lot, it was clean and to the point.

The game is poorly optimized, even people with good systems have a hard time running it efficiently.

There is no Auction House. The retainer system is bad, if you think it's good please put your fanboyism's behind you.

Party play, what party play? Partying is not worth it, especially with the glitch where only 2 people will get xp/skill points.

Battle Regimens More cumbersome and glitchy than skill chains.

The game has effects that are far surpassed by FFXI, which came out almost 8 years ago? This whole time i've been an SE fan, and i've praised them for their magic/ability effects, this game definitely let me down in that department. I think a big part of the reason is the move to the unreal engine, which is a **** poor engine, especially for easterners which still don't seem to have a good grasp on it, and it shows with this game.

Oh, and the last game SE made with the unreal engine was bad as well, and ran bad, and had bad effects, I see a pattern here.

The world feels small, and empty, there's nothing out there, it's like a ghost town, nothing is happening, the game needs more content. They sacrificed smaller, more varied zones for bigger zones that look and feel the same from one end to the other.

This list goes on and on.

If FFXI wasn't so underpopulated in low/mid levels, and I thought it had 5 or more years of life left in it, I would just go back to playing that.
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#25 Oct 01 2010 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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There are things both positive and negative with the game. I've taken a casual stand to playing. I'll log one night level a bit, do a bit of crafting and log out. I don't think the game is player friendly enough to grind the whole day long like I did and still do in FFXI but with a few needed updates, it should look up.

It's a little minor irk of mine but why does my text disappear when I press Ctrl + R and force me to write everything over again... I have to literally paste my friend's name before I start typing so it doesn't overwrite....

And a AH, I talked to half the npcs in the city to find out who had a fishing rod. You would think the carpentry guild would but nope found it in a random booth seller.

Once they make the UI a bit more player friendly and add /sea and AH, I think those scores will go up.
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#26 Oct 01 2010 at 1:24 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
FanciatheDragonkeeper wrote:
The problem might be...it's not even 100 ratings, the other 1.000.000 people are playing happily
Wow, talk about denial.

By the way, 1 million people is an extremely generous number, FFXI at best only hit 550k, I wouldn't imagine FFXIV doing much better. Since it's just at release as well, probably more like 200k at best.



Silly, it was just an imaginary number. If it makes ya any happier, insert any number ya wish. The fact remains the same, unless there were only a couple of hundred people playing in Japan. That, though, would be denial. Also I never said there's nothing to complain about, I sure had my moments of hair pulling but it could be much worse, for a start it's -okay-.

Less than 100 people giving one star on Amazon doesn't mean half of Japan hates the game, that's all I said basically. 'kay? 'kay!
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#27AuryanofAsura, Posted: Oct 01 2010 at 1:25 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Indeed. If only some of you sheeple could do the same.
#28 Oct 01 2010 at 1:27 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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xGaelx wrote:
If you haven't even played the game past beta then what gives you any ethos here? I mean you're waiting for the problems to be fixed like the rest of us. But there is still a lot of fun to be enjoyed from this game. A lot more fun that being a beacon of negative comments here.
Fun for you, maybe. I played the game in the beta and so far most people have reported only two things changing, the UI being more responsive, and the hardware mouse (which I hacked to enable in the beta anyway). That's not going to change the fact that the game isn't fun for me to play in the state it's in. So rather than drop some money on it now and sit around not playing and waiting for some of the major easy fixes to get implemented, I'm just going to not play. Until then I'm waiting to see when that's going to actually happen. Despite what most people apparently think, I DO want to play the game, but I want to enjoy it too.

You seem to be under the false impression that people who don't like the game either are mistaken and SHOULD be liking the game, or will NEVER like the game and therefore should just leave.

AuryanofAsura wrote:
Quote:
Good for you.
Indeed. If only some of you sheeple could do the same.
lolwut? How exactly am I one of the 'sheeple' for going against your recommendation to just buy the game and play it?



Edited, Oct 1st 2010 2:31pm by bsphil
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Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
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gbaji wrote:
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#29 Oct 01 2010 at 1:39 PM Rating: Good
bsphil wrote:
xGaelx wrote:
If you haven't even played the game past beta then what gives you any ethos here? I mean you're waiting for the problems to be fixed like the rest of us. But there is still a lot of fun to be enjoyed from this game. A lot more fun that being a beacon of negative comments here.
Fun for you, maybe. I played the game in the beta and so far most people have reported only two things changing, the UI being more responsive, and the hardware mouse (which I hacked to enable in the beta anyway). That's not going to change the fact that the game isn't fun for me to play in the state it's in. So rather than drop some money on it now and sit around not playing and waiting for some of the major easy fixes to get implemented, I'm just going to not play. Until then I'm waiting to see when that's going to actually happen. Despite what most people apparently think, I DO want to play the game, but I want to enjoy it too.

You seem to be under the false impression that people who don't like the game either are mistaken and SHOULD be liking the game, or will NEVER like the game and therefore should just leave.

AuryanofAsura wrote:
Quote:
Good for you.
Indeed. If only some of you sheeple could do the same.
lolwut? How exactly am I one of the 'sheeple' for going against your recommendation to just buy the game and play it?



Edited, Oct 1st 2010 2:31pm by bsphil


Actually I think it was more along the lines of, what do you hope to accomplish by posting dozens of negative complaints every day? I've noticed the same, though I don't see you as an enemy. Quite possibly neither does he/she.

It's ok not to like the game. You're justified. So are people who do like it. But flooding the forums with negativity does have it's consequences on the community, emotionally and mathematically. If you have hope for the game, focus on that. It seems right now your purpose is to destroy it.
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#30 Oct 01 2010 at 1:41 PM Rating: Default
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charityneverfaileth wrote:
bsphil wrote:
xGaelx wrote:
If you haven't even played the game past beta then what gives you any ethos here? I mean you're waiting for the problems to be fixed like the rest of us. But there is still a lot of fun to be enjoyed from this game. A lot more fun that being a beacon of negative comments here.
Fun for you, maybe. I played the game in the beta and so far most people have reported only two things changing, the UI being more responsive, and the hardware mouse (which I hacked to enable in the beta anyway). That's not going to change the fact that the game isn't fun for me to play in the state it's in. So rather than drop some money on it now and sit around not playing and waiting for some of the major easy fixes to get implemented, I'm just going to not play. Until then I'm waiting to see when that's going to actually happen. Despite what most people apparently think, I DO want to play the game, but I want to enjoy it too.

You seem to be under the false impression that people who don't like the game either are mistaken and SHOULD be liking the game, or will NEVER like the game and therefore should just leave.

AuryanofAsura wrote:
Quote:
Good for you.
Indeed. If only some of you sheeple could do the same.
lolwut? How exactly am I one of the 'sheeple' for going against your recommendation to just buy the game and play it?



Edited, Oct 1st 2010 2:31pm by bsphil


Actually I think it was more along the lines of, what do you hope to accomplish by posting dozens of negative complaints every day? I've noticed the same, though I don't see you as an enemy. Quite possibly neither does he/she.

It's ok not to like the game. You're justified. So are people who do like it. But flooding the forums with negativity does have it's consequences on the community, emotionally and mathematically. If you have hope for the game, focus on that. It seems right now your purpose is to destroy it.


Bingo and well said.
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#31 Oct 01 2010 at 1:51 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
xGaelx wrote:
Bsphil all I see you post are negative remarks. we get it, there are a lot of things you don't like, so move on.
No. I'm waiting for the main problems to get fixed so I can go buy the game for myself.


Yea actually i also cancelled my preorder and am waiting for urgent fixes to be added, i don't feel the need to play an MMORPG that doesn't have an Auction House or at least a search function in 2010... Ultima Online, **** even "The Realm" too very old school mmorpgs, seemed to have more content + fun at launch.

It seems like the FF series started out good, was best around 4-6, then after 10 it just took a huge nose dive towards the motto of "Graphics > Gameplay" now they come out with this beautiful game, that's insanely boring to play and even though it's graphics are insanely high res, the world feels dull and lifeless.

I got FF13 just to try it out, it's like they made a movie and added a video game to it, instead of making a video game and adding cutscenes to it. Why can't they just go back to how much fun FF4 and 6 were and update the **** out of the graphics, add some new spells, summons, plot, characters, etc.

The movie that is FF13 wouldn't be so bad, but lets face it, Japanese culture as a whole sucks at making movies.

Edited, Oct 1st 2010 3:53pm by Nokturnal
#32 Oct 01 2010 at 1:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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this kinda reminds me when EQ2 came out, ppl were disappointed that it did'nt live up to the hype after it predecessor Everquest. ppl ended up going back to the first one. if this game keep going the way it is, it will become more of a novelty. right now party friendly this game is not. communication friendly far from it. in most areas it just losing it luster each passing day.
#33 Oct 01 2010 at 1:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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charityneverfaileth wrote:
bsphil wrote:
xGaelx wrote:
If you haven't even played the game past beta then what gives you any ethos here? I mean you're waiting for the problems to be fixed like the rest of us. But there is still a lot of fun to be enjoyed from this game. A lot more fun that being a beacon of negative comments here.
Fun for you, maybe. I played the game in the beta and so far most people have reported only two things changing, the UI being more responsive, and the hardware mouse (which I hacked to enable in the beta anyway). That's not going to change the fact that the game isn't fun for me to play in the state it's in. So rather than drop some money on it now and sit around not playing and waiting for some of the major easy fixes to get implemented, I'm just going to not play. Until then I'm waiting to see when that's going to actually happen. Despite what most people apparently think, I DO want to play the game, but I want to enjoy it too.

You seem to be under the false impression that people who don't like the game either are mistaken and SHOULD be liking the game, or will NEVER like the game and therefore should just leave.

AuryanofAsura wrote:
Quote:
Good for you.
Indeed. If only some of you sheeple could do the same.
lolwut? How exactly am I one of the 'sheeple' for going against your recommendation to just buy the game and play it?



Edited, Oct 1st 2010 2:31pm by bsphil


Actually I think it was more along the lines of, what do you hope to accomplish by posting dozens of negative complaints every day? I've noticed the same, though I don't see you as an enemy. Quite possibly neither does he/she.

It's ok not to like the game. You're justified. So are people who do like it. But flooding the forums with negativity does have it's consequences on the community, emotionally and mathematically. If you have hope for the game, focus on that. It seems right now your purpose is to destroy it.


Because there's a chance devs or community managers glance at these forums every once in awhile, if they don't see any threads complaining about the game, they'll assume people are cool with it, well people are not cool with it, and the more hate threads that are on the forums, the more likely it is one of these devs might give it a glance and notice just how many people are in disapproval.
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#34 Oct 01 2010 at 2:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Trolls aside, vocal people that have passion for a game they want to enjoy will only help open the eyes of the people that can change it. Embrace the anger because once people stop caring and fall silent, subscription numbers will fall along with the funding this game needs to survive.
#35 Oct 01 2010 at 2:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mentoc wrote:
Trolls aside, vocal people that have passion for a game they want to enjoy will only help open the eyes of the people that can change it. Embrace the anger because once people stop caring and fall silent, subscription numbers will fall along with the funding this game needs to survive.


Exactly, if we aren't vocal about changes that need to be made, chances are people are just going to straight up quit, because they feel their voices aren't being heard.

I would like to see the figures of how many people bought the game in a month, and then how many current paying subscribers they have after everyone's free month is up.
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There once was a tiger striped cat. This cat died a million deaths and was reborn a million times and was owned by various people who he didn't care for. The cat wasn't afraid to die... One day, the cat was a free cat, a stray cat. He met a white female cat, and the two cats spent their days happily together. Years passed, and the white cat died of old age. The tiger striped cat cried a million times, and then died. It never
came back to life.
#36 Oct 01 2010 at 2:08 PM Rating: Decent
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There is a developer forum... if you really want to reach the devs you should probably be posting there.
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#37 Oct 01 2010 at 2:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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172 posts
It's better to be angry then to be complacent or happy about an unfinished game. People respond to anger, but i think the Japanese players are speaking up enough for us.

The reason people are angry/mad/posting a lot about what's wrong with the game, is they WANT the game to be better, so they can play it and actually enjoy it. They're not posting to pop your balloon, they're trying to get their voice heard so they might actually fix all the problems with this game.

I personally quit WoW over a year ago, tried out EQ2 (end-game sucked balls), quit that too. Now i'm looking for something new and I was hoping FXIV would be it, but so far it's definitely not. So back to not playing any MMO's at all.
#38 Oct 01 2010 at 2:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
There is a developer forum... if you really want to reach the devs you should probably be posting there.


The OP was posting a link to Japanese reviews that showed that they feel just as dismal about this game as the English speakers do. There wasn't any suggestion on his part, he was just relaying information. The thread has derailed since then, but it is still 'General Discussion' worthy.
#39 Oct 01 2010 at 2:16 PM Rating: Default
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Nokturnal wrote:

The reason people are angry/mad/posting a lot about what's wrong with the game, is they WANT the game to be better, so they can play it and actually enjoy it. They're not posting to pop your balloon, they're trying to get their voice heard so they might actually fix all the problems with this game.


I can appreciate this sentiment, for sure, but if that is the case then people should be posting here:
http://www.zam.com/forum.html?forum=173

I think it is great for people to make constructive suggestions aimed at the developers. However, as someone who is enjoying the game I feel like half these threads are more aimed at bashing people who like the game - or gloating about how terribad people think it is or whatever.


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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#40 Oct 01 2010 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
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9,526 posts
Mentoc wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
There is a developer forum... if you really want to reach the devs you should probably be posting there.


The OP was posting a link to Japanese reviews that showed that they feel just as dismal about this game as the English speakers do. There wasn't any suggestion on his part, he was just relaying information. The thread has derailed since then, but it is still 'General Discussion' worthy.


yeah I wasn't directing my comment at OP - to clarify - I was directing it at people who say the reason they need to keep posting threads about how much they hate FFXIV is to make the developers fix the game.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#41 Oct 01 2010 at 2:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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3,437 posts
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Nokturnal wrote:

The reason people are angry/mad/posting a lot about what's wrong with the game, is they WANT the game to be better, so they can play it and actually enjoy it. They're not posting to pop your balloon, they're trying to get their voice heard so they might actually fix all the problems with this game.


I can appreciate this sentiment, for sure, but if that is the case then people should be posting here:
http://www.zam.com/forum.html?forum=173

I think it is great for people to make constructive suggestions aimed at the developers. However, as someone who is enjoying the game I feel like half these threads are more aimed at bashing people who like the game - or gloating about how terribad people think it is or whatever.




You're misinterpreting, or you're taking things too personally. I don't recall ever seeing a thread here that said "FFXIV is awful and you're stupid for liking it." I'm pretty sure that thread never happened, or if it did, it was quickly nuked by the people whose job it is to actually moderate these forums (and they're pretty good at it too).

There's every bit as much evidence to support SE paying attention to the Zam feedback forum as there is to them paying attention to this forum. Communication issues between the players and the company are some of the chief complaints about SE.

The fact that even the JP players don't like the game is very telling and will probably have far more impact on SE's decision-making process than anything we post here (opinionated as we foreign websites are... I'm sorry I'll never get over that one).
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#42 Oct 01 2010 at 2:25 PM Rating: Default
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I don't know comments like

"if you like the wards stop being a fanboi" or whatever ... are pretty much just saying people are stupid for not hating X feature as much as most people. It isn't exactly overt - but the haters are pretty much out there rating people who are happy down and calling them dumb for not revolting/liking the game.

As for taking things personally the people who rate down others for liking the game pretty much win the award for that.

Edited, Oct 1st 2010 1:26pm by Olorinus
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#43 Oct 01 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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4,902 posts
Quote:
If you haven't even played the game past beta then what gives you any ethos here? I mean you're waiting for the problems to be fixed like the rest of us. But there is still a lot of fun to be enjoyed from this game. A lot more fun that being a beacon of negative comments here.


What your missing here Gael is that not every one enjoys leveling their characters. Some people like hunting NMs or PvP or quest lines... Even simply being able to put stuff on AH in stead of hoping some one runs across your retainer and buys your stuff. Games needs a lot of help. Even the JPs think so...
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#44 Oct 01 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Default
FeanaroOnPhoenix wrote:
charityneverfaileth wrote:
bsphil wrote:
xGaelx wrote:
If you haven't even played the game past beta then what gives you any ethos here? I mean you're waiting for the problems to be fixed like the rest of us. But there is still a lot of fun to be enjoyed from this game. A lot more fun that being a beacon of negative comments here.
Fun for you, maybe. I played the game in the beta and so far most people have reported only two things changing, the UI being more responsive, and the hardware mouse (which I hacked to enable in the beta anyway). That's not going to change the fact that the game isn't fun for me to play in the state it's in. So rather than drop some money on it now and sit around not playing and waiting for some of the major easy fixes to get implemented, I'm just going to not play. Until then I'm waiting to see when that's going to actually happen. Despite what most people apparently think, I DO want to play the game, but I want to enjoy it too.

You seem to be under the false impression that people who don't like the game either are mistaken and SHOULD be liking the game, or will NEVER like the game and therefore should just leave.

AuryanofAsura wrote:
Quote:
Good for you.
Indeed. If only some of you sheeple could do the same.
lolwut? How exactly am I one of the 'sheeple' for going against your recommendation to just buy the game and play it?



Edited, Oct 1st 2010 2:31pm by bsphil

Actually I think it was more along the lines of, what do you hope to accomplish by posting dozens of negative complaints every day? I've noticed the same, though I don't see you as an enemy. Quite possibly neither does he/she.

It's ok not to like the game. You're justified. So are people who do like it. But flooding the forums with negativity does have it's consequences on the community, emotionally and mathematically. If you have hope for the game, focus on that. It seems right now your purpose is to destroy it.


Because there's a chance devs or community managers glance at these forums every once in awhile, if they don't see any threads complaining about the game, they'll assume people are cool with it, well people are not cool with it, and the more hate threads that are on the forums, the more likely it is one of these devs might give it a glance and notice just how many people are in disapproval.



You incorrectly assume that the only way to report a problem in the game is to complain until you and everyone else around you is miserable.

Let's say you have a house, and you haven't mowed the lawn in a while and your front step really needs to be painted, but unfortunately, the disrepair of your home is driving property values down for your neighbors.

20 neighbors come over to you and scream and yell and insult you.
20 other neighbors invite you to a street party, get to know you, feed you, and are generally pleasant, but request that you please paint your front porch.

Which of those things are you likely to do first?

I'm not saying he shouldn't post problems about the game. I'm saying he's doing himself, and everyone around him, a great disservice by being repeatedly negative and almost altogether nonconstructive, and so is everyone else who approaches these issues in the same way.

There are issues with the game. I don't think that this game, or any other paid MMO should be released with more than typos, and occasional content errors. Some things just get missed in the mass of it all, and having 10 years experience as a game designer/developer hobbyist myself, I can say that you'll never find all the bugs until it's been thoroughly play tested. But! This is the world we live in. This is how the business is. Issues absolutely have to be reported in order to get fixed. But they're not going to fix things any faster because people negative and insulting as opposed to tolerant and constructive. The only real exception to this is when their mistakes start to hit their pocket books, at that shows up in their accounting statements, not on a forum. Developers read forums, not executives. At the end of the day the devs are going to focus things based on what they feel the game needs most at the time. Player input does matter, but they have planned this game to a science. They need our perspectives and input, but they know many times more about this game, and how it will likely turn out than the vast majority of us. Will it be the most popular game on the market? Probably not. But what else can you do? You can make a WoW clone, and feed off WoWs popularity... and by the way, which WoW clone has had any success that didn't ride the coat tails of a popular theme, such as lord of the rings or star wars? Do you think anyone would play a wow clone in a little known theme unless they were a cult fan? No, they'd just play WoW.

SE HAS to break the mold to be successful in this game. FFXI is a cult theme. Those who want WoW, should stick with WoW, or play LotR or Star Wars: The Old Republic when that comes out if they are more into one of those themes. Those that like FFXI should keep playing that. I am sure development is not going to stop on that game for a good time yet, especially if people are still playing it. Those who want to try something new, then you are in the right place.

At the end of the day feedback is feedback. The only thing that matters is that the devs receive it. If 100 people think something is a problem, they are going to fix it, no matter how the feedback is presented.

And as I said, if you want to leave the game, you can make that statement, and be equally heard whether you spout 6 weeks of hate-posts on the forums or not. The ones who make those decisions only read a number on an accounting statement.

So really, the presentation of the message only affects the community. You can either perpetuate feelings of frustration, anger, intolerance, etc, or you can make a personal decision to not do so, and express your concerns in a way that will not incite others to anger and frustration as well.

And by the way, it is communities that kill games, not the devs. Star Wars Galaxies was killed on its forums by haters. Had the haters simply left the game, and not spread their anger and hate, there would still be tens of thousands, if not many more people genuinely enjoy that game right now. Just as an example.

So yes, I again repeat. If he has hope for the game, focus on that. Right now it seems like he's trying to destroy it.



Edited, Oct 1st 2010 5:35pm by charityneverfaileth
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#45 Oct 01 2010 at 2:33 PM Rating: Decent
#46 Oct 01 2010 at 2:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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3,437 posts
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I don't know comments like

"if you like the wards stop being a fanboi" or whatever ... are pretty much just saying people are stupid for not hating X feature as much as most people. It isn't exactly overt - but the haters are pretty much out there rating people who are happy down and calling them dumb for not revolting/liking the game.

As for taking things personally the people who rate down others for liking the game pretty much win the award for that.

Edited, Oct 1st 2010 1:26pm by Olorinus


I'll agree there are some comments on both sides that are uncalled-for, and most of the time these get rated into oblivion pretty efficiently.

Those of us on the critical side of the game are getting our own share of karma trolls, trust me.

Our goal isn't to make people feel bad (those of us who aren't just trolling anyway), it's to voice and make visible our problems with the game so that they can hopefully be fixed and it'll be in a state where we want to play it and spend money on it (which should be SE's goal). We also like to discuss other views on these problems, not to make people feel bad, but to have a discussion on a subject of interest to us and others. What amazes me more than anything is the number of people who don't want a discussion on these subjects at all, as if just talking about these topics makes the game worse. I'm not sure what to do with them, but I try to stay civil
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svlyons wrote:
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#47 Oct 01 2010 at 2:37 PM Rating: Good
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534 posts
"Impromptu defeated, you can imagine."

I think that is more than enough to get SE to start sending the patches we need.


omg...I haven't laughed this much in awhile. People at work are like dude...whats your problem?
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#48 Oct 01 2010 at 2:45 PM Rating: Decent
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9,526 posts
Archmage Callinon wrote:

Our goal isn't to make people feel bad (those of us who aren't just trolling anyway), it's to voice and make visible our problems with the game so that they can hopefully be fixed and it'll be in a state where we want to play it and spend money on it (which should be SE's goal). We also like to discuss other views on these problems, not to make people feel bad, but to have a discussion on a subject of interest to us and others. What amazes me more than anything is the number of people who don't want a discussion on these subjects at all, as if just talking about these topics makes the game worse. I'm not sure what to do with them, but I try to stay civil


You definitely do a good job of staying civil - but honestly - do I deserve rate-downs for saying feedback belongs in the feedback forum? This thread itself isn't a good example (it definitely belongs here) because I do think people are interested in what the JP player-base has to say and this thread isn't about feedback at all par se- but for those saying they are continuously pointing out the same flaws to get the attention of developers - I do think it makes sense for those people to be posting in the forum that specifically says the developers monitor.

Also I do try to be balanced with what I say. You'll see a lot of my posts saying "I can understand people don't like this feature because of X but I like it because of Y" - and yet people just rate-me down any time I say something positive. It really makes it so I don't want to have a conversation since people can't be bothered to actually debate the points they just hit the arrows and meander away. It is irritating especially when I go out of my way to frame something coherent and well thought out... and then get nuked for it. It makes it not fun to post here.

I guess I could just not care but what can I say, I am a social creature. I notice these things.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#49 Oct 01 2010 at 2:46 PM Rating: Good
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548 posts
[post deleted]

~ just realized this thread is not about pudding at all
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MUTED
#50 Oct 01 2010 at 2:50 PM Rating: Excellent
Companies work so hard to not do things like WoW, but they still fail utterly because what brings a game down is not having something thats similar to WoW, but having something terribly badly done. WoW is so successful because when they see an issue, they go, 'hmm, this is an easy way to do it that will be fun!'. Other companies go 'hmm, this is totally unlike how WoW did it, lets go with that!' -- even if it means something the opposite of fun (because WoW did fun, we can't do that!) or the simplest effective route. Fail.

Edited, Oct 1st 2010 1:51pm by digitalcraft
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#51 Oct 01 2010 at 2:50 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
LadyOfHolyDarkness, Eater of Souls wrote:
lol

Well at least they read these forums in 2004.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
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