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Selling in your BazaarFollow

#1 Oct 01 2010 at 1:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Ok here is my big question. I leveled Miner and Botanist to 15. Using all the materials I leveled Goldsmith and Carpenter. I'm making 100% profits. My problem is: How do I know how much to put things in my bazaar for?

For instance: I had 2 stacks of Maple Logs. I crafted them all into Maple Lumber. Close to 96 Maple Lumbers. Now this website says that a NPC sells Maple Logs for 9k gil. (You never know with this site. Everything is being updated slowly. That could be beta prices still). Now I figure if it is 9k at a NPC and each snyth I make 4 Lumber out of 1 Log. Then divide 9000/4 = selling price per Lumber. So I'll round down since I'm making 100% anyways. So about 2k per Lumber. Am I wrong in doing this? Is that insanely high? Any help from other crafters would be greatly appreciated :)
#2 Oct 01 2010 at 1:17 PM Rating: Decent
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problem is only other carpenters - who can make maple lumber themselves and probably have a ton of it can use it afaik. Maple planks however are used straight up by armorer - and hafts are used by blacksmiths etc.

I don't think you'll sell a lot of lumber unless it is really low priced. As a carpenter I have so much right now I wouldn't bother. If I needed some I would rather buy a log (usually can find them in bazaars for 1-2K) and get the skill ups sawing it into lumber than buy the lumber. I advise you to make grips from the lumber and put that in your bazaar - especially maple dagger grips and the grips used to make hammers.

When you get to Ash lumber you would be able to sell that right up since the ash lumber is a higher level synth than the things you can make with it. I would buy ash lumber in a heartbeat.

Edited, Oct 1st 2010 12:20pm by Olorinus
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#3 Oct 01 2010 at 1:18 PM Rating: Good
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the beauty of this system is that it is going to take personal research from you. Check your local wards and see what others are selling for. Then you need to undercut them or sell for the same amount. Or if you have a large quantity, you can charge more. There is no little list of predetermined numbers yet.
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#4 Oct 01 2010 at 1:22 PM Rating: Decent
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That's almost too much work having to research it yourself since there isn't a AH. Everyone literally "cluster *****" into the same ward and you can't even remember anymore whose bazaar you already check. Such a terrible system. That's another subject though. So I'll do what you guys said.

Quote:
I advise you to make grips from the lumber and put that in your bazaar - especially maple dagger grips and the grips used to make hammers.


I'm not even sure how to make those. I'll try checking the website here for the recipes. Thanks :)
#5 Oct 01 2010 at 1:22 PM Rating: Good
Its hard to come up with a accurate amount to place item's for in your bazaar.Some people like yourself farm all or most of there materials thus profit margin is a lot higher than buying materials.I personally try to look in other peoples bazaar selling like things,calculate cost of materials used for synth,and come up with a figure that is good for buyer and still nets me a small profit.

Several times i see people selling things for WAY more than i am.In Final Fantasy 11 i would feel bad undercutting selling something so much below what some deem as market value.But in this game there really is no market value and some prices i have seen are just crazy high.So you just gotta go buy your instinct.
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#6 Oct 01 2010 at 1:23 PM Rating: Default
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There is no way to compare, which is why the lack of AH completely blows - the only way you can legitimately guess what it's for is shout or ask in LS what everyone has been purchasing stuff for. I find that 99% of bazaars are completely overpriced(I'm looking at you low level rings that are lvl 1 synths for 90k).

Quote:
I'm not even sure how to make those. I'll try checking the website here for the recipes. Thanks :)


YG would be a better bet for researching crafting recipes and seeing what can sell better.

Edited, Oct 1st 2010 3:24pm by loyaltrekie
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#7 Oct 01 2010 at 1:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Slapaho wrote:


I'm not even sure how to make those. I'll try checking the website here for the recipes. Thanks :)


If you just put 1 maple lumber into the recipe box you will have a choice of 4 or so things you can make from it with no other ingredient. If you put linseed oil in as well you will have more choices.
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#8 Oct 01 2010 at 1:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Ahh ok. I'll do that. Once my server decides to behave lol
#9 Oct 01 2010 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
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loyaltrekie wrote:
There is no way to compare, which is why the lack of AH completely blows - the only way you can legitimately guess what it's for is shout or ask in LS what everyone has been purchasing stuff for. I find that 99% of bazaars are completely overpriced(I'm looking at you low level rings that are lvl 1 synths for 90k).


Thats such a fallacy. The AH artificially dictated value. Real value should be determined by the buyer and seller for individual transactions. The price history hurt everyone, but hardly anyone realized it.

You list the item in your bazaar for the minimum price that you need to feel fairly compensated. If it sells really fast, then start bumping the price up for even more profit. If it sits and doesn't sell, then you can either keep your lumber or lower the price.

Everyone acts like there is some universally known value for everything in the world and that its impossible to find it in ffxiv without a price history. Value is different for every buyer/seller and depends on many factors.

PS - You really get angry when someone lists something for more than you are willing to pay? Maybe they get angry because you aren't willing to pay their asking price. Who are you to set a value?



Edited, Oct 1st 2010 2:36pm by Mithsavvy
#10 Oct 01 2010 at 1:50 PM Rating: Excellent
One thing to consider when selling components and materials, is how much the going price is for the completed item. You want to make sure to set it to a price that will allow the crafter to still make a decent profit. If you don't, well chances are most people just won't buy it from you.

Unfortunately right now it's hard to figure out what the going price is on a lot of stuff, and I only happen to know because I happen to be leveling a number of crafts at the same time. At the end of the day, I have to agree, it comes down to common sense/gut feeling and trial and error, at this stage of the game.

Edited, Oct 1st 2010 4:52pm by charityneverfaileth
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#11 Oct 01 2010 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Can't say I ever got angry at someone for selling something at a higher price. Mainly because I don't buy anything. I farm anything and everything for my crafts. If I need to level another craft then I go and do it. I'm in no rush like most people are in this game, trying to get to that level 50 in a month. That's asinine. So many abilities and things to learn. It's why I have 5 jobs over 13 and 3 more at level 10.

So like you're saying I'll simply try the guess and check method. Put something in the bazaar. If it sells fast then ok. If it doesn't ever sell then I'll probably bump it down.

Edit:
Quote:
YG would be a better bet for researching crafting recipes and seeing what can sell better.


What is YG?

Edited, Oct 1st 2010 2:55pm by Slapaho
#12 Oct 01 2010 at 1:55 PM Rating: Good
Mithsavvy wrote:
loyaltrekie wrote:
There is no way to compare, which is why the lack of AH completely blows - the only way you can legitimately guess what it's for is shout or ask in LS what everyone has been purchasing stuff for. I find that 99% of bazaars are completely overpriced(I'm looking at you low level rings that are lvl 1 synths for 90k).


Thats such a fallacy. The AH artificially dictated value. Real value should be determined by the buyer and seller for individual transactions. The price history hurt everyone, but hardly anyone realized it.

You list the item in your bazaar for the minimum price that you need to feel fairly compensated. If it sells really fast, then start bumping the price up for even more profit. If it sits and doesn't sell, then you can either keep your lumber or lower the price.

Everyone acts like there is some universally known value for everything in the world and that its impossible to find it in ffxiv without a price history. Value is different for every buyer/seller and depends on many factors.

PS - You really get angry when someone lists something for more than you are willing to pay? Maybe they get angry because you aren't willing to pay their asking price. Who are you to set a value?



Edited, Oct 1st 2010 2:36pm by Mithsavvy


+1 this. I'm not really against an AH per se but I never liked the price history.

Quote:
I advise you to make grips from the lumber and put that in your bazaar - especially maple dagger grips and the grips used to make hammers.


Do this then go post up in the Blacksmith or Armorer guild. This is where perceived value comes into play. To someone skilling up making knives or hammers those handles are a treasure just for the convenience of not having to hunt them down.
#13 Oct 01 2010 at 2:02 PM Rating: Decent
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yeah this thread is making me wanna put some dagger grips and hafts and maple planks on my bazaar and go afk in the armorer/blacksmith guild, lol. I could sell them super cheap and still make a ton of cash I bet.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#14 Oct 01 2010 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Mithsavvy wrote:

The AH artificially dictated value. Real value should be determined by the buyer and seller for individual transactions. The price history hurt everyone, but hardly anyone realized it.


The price history was one of the best things about the FFXI auction house. It told you at what price things were actually selling at, and some indication as to how fast. If an item was selling fast and there was a low supply, it was an indication that the item was underpriced. Conversely, if it hardly ever sold and there was plentiful supply, then it was a sign that it was overpriced and you'd have to drop the price to get reasonable sales.

The only people the auction house hurt were the few crafters wishing to rip off the rest of the players. Any even then they would probably be better off selling things more quickly for a reasonable price.

Quote:

You list the item in your bazaar for the minimum price that you need to feel fairly compensated. If it sells really fast, then start bumping the price up for even more profit. If it sits and doesn't sell, then you can either keep your lumber or lower the price.


You can do exactly the same thing with an auction house, only it's far quicker and simpler for both the buyer and seller.
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#15 Oct 01 2010 at 2:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
The AH artificially dictated value. Real value should be determined by the buyer and seller for individual transactions. The price history hurt everyone, but hardly anyone realized it.

This makes no sense from an economic standpoint. What you're calling "real value," the price "determined by the buyer and seller for individual transactions," is precisely the sort of thing that happens thousands of times per day in an auction house. The only thing differentiating it from two people meeting up on the street and haggling over a shield is that both the buyer and seller have much larger knowledge at hand about the relative worth of goods when they're using an auction house. You're advocating "real value" as only coming from a transaction between a less informed buyer and a less informed seller.

An auction house doesn't artificially dictate anything. To use that argument is to say that stock and commodities markets across the world artificially dictate value. If you had a gold bar laying around that you wanted to sell in the real world, would you ignore the current commodities prices and just sell it for whatever you imagined a good deal to be?
#16 Oct 01 2010 at 2:20 PM Rating: Good
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
yeah this thread is making me wanna put some dagger grips and hafts and maple planks on my bazaar and go afk in the armorer/blacksmith guild, lol. I could sell them super cheap and still make a ton of cash I bet.


Especially when you figure almost everything used to make them was free.
#17 Oct 01 2010 at 2:20 PM Rating: Default
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Mithsavvy wrote:


PS - You really get angry when someone lists something for more than you are willing to pay? Maybe they get angry because you aren't willing to pay their asking price. Who are you to set a value?



Edited, Oct 1st 2010 2:36pm by Mithsavvy


Yes, I get immensely irritated when I check someones bazzar(in which I have to stop moving and wait for 2 menus to load) just to see one ice shard for 30k, or a bone ring for 100k. The AH history gave a least a little look into what the rest of the server is offering as a base price - you could still bazzar items higher or lower if you wanted to. In a perfect world all the craft items would be it's cost of materials + cost of 'labor' etc, so that everything is a profit - but that will happen in no game, ever. Just due to how random drop rates are, what drops the items, if the item is skilled up on etc etc - basic supply and demand. On a side note, I'm not setting a value - I'm just stating that right now the 'ceiling' for prices is absurd due to no one knowing what everything 'should' be going for. Like I said - 1 shard for anything remotely above 1K, regardless of server, is exponentially high and should /angry any one who opens a bazzar just to see that; it's an item them drops very consistently in groups of many - if their was a price history - or any way to show what the 'server value' of it was, the sheer amount of people offering stuff at astronomical prices will drop.
#18 Oct 01 2010 at 2:23 PM Rating: Decent
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On the note about people selling things for too much in bazaar... I accidentally sold some hempen bowstring for 10K each because I put them in bazaar with a ridiculous price to hold for myself out of my inventory and someone bought 1... lol

I had a maple wand in there for cheap though. Everything else is just being held there.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#19 Oct 01 2010 at 2:29 PM Rating: Good
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Refresherize wrote:
Quote:
The AH artificially dictated value. Real value should be determined by the buyer and seller for individual transactions. The price history hurt everyone, but hardly anyone realized it.

This makes no sense from an economic standpoint. What you're calling "real value," the price "determined by the buyer and seller for individual transactions," is precisely the sort of thing that happens thousands of times per day in an auction house. The only thing differentiating it from two people meeting up on the street and haggling over a shield is that both the buyer and seller have much larger knowledge at hand about the relative worth of goods when they're using an auction house. You're advocating "real value" as only coming from a transaction between a less informed buyer and a less informed seller.

An auction house doesn't artificially dictate anything. To use that argument is to say that stock and commodities markets across the world artificially dictate value. If you had a gold bar laying around that you wanted to sell in the real world, would you ignore the current commodities prices and just sell it for whatever you imagined a good deal to be?


+1

I think it has come to the point of preference and how the game should be played. Some people want the experience of retainers, others don't.

BUT there is no argument that retainers are ultimately better than a centralized, searchable system. Especially from an economic standpoint. Retainers may be better in some areas. There's definitely more of a disparity in prices, where the seller could get away with selling an item for way more than its worth, or conversely a buyer could scoop up a great deal.

However, as you've already stated, BOTH of those examples are examples of a lack of knowledge of the market. A proper AH does that legwork for you. All the while supply and demand still plays a very prevalent role.
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