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Could the "paid beta for PS3 release" plan backfire?Follow

#1 Oct 01 2010 at 10:00 PM Rating: Good
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It seemed smart enough - you're releasing the only true MMO for a console, you're SE, the IP is Final Fantasy - you've got a guaranteed seller on your hands, but why not work out the kinks to your game by getting PC fans to pay you to beta test? Mo' money, mo' money, mo'money!

Well, mo' money, mo' problems. The thing is, they rushed our this incomplete "paid beta" and it could be such a spectacular fail at launch that the very property could be sullied before it even gets a chance to fly at the "real" release for the PS3. Amazon dropping the price by $10 after less than 2 days? Begging reviewers to keep it in the dark? The least exciting MMO launch in history? (If you consider yesterday the true launch - many here say the servers didn't even seem fuller!) The EXTREMELY negative Japanese Amazon reviews?

Unless SE can promise PS3 gamers a completely new experience, word of mouth is gonna travel FAST and in a few weeks it's gonna be a complete joke among gamers at large (it already is in most MMO communities), and even PS3 gamers are gonna avoid it like the plague.

But can they promise a totally improved experience in just a few short months, given the many basic bugs they face, not to mention the lack of content?
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#2 Oct 01 2010 at 10:26 PM Rating: Good
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It'll be a more polished and playable game within a year. I'd wager it'll be a better game than FFXI in the long run; they just rushed it, so it won't have the player base that it could've had if they had done things a bit more reasonably.

First impressions are everything.
#3 Oct 01 2010 at 10:31 PM Rating: Decent
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in 6 months hopefully alot will have improved, and added.

Also the game has only been out for what 2 weeks? its bringing a new born baby home then thinking "OMG why wont it stop crying?" its gonna take everyone time to adjust, people (me included) are comparing it to our favourite game, WoW Heads, FFXI addicts, everquest etc, once we are all used to it.

SE already have an expansion being developed, more ingame stuff to be added, at the min i remember someone say they just checking the server stress threshold, thats why alot isn't in the game at the min, but in the upcoming months we'll be sure to see more quests (class quests), chocobo's more jobs, once the hype of it has settled down.

So by the time PS3 Beta is out, ( they will be on seperate servers, its to work out PS3 only bugs ) they not promising an amazing overhaul of the game, they just want to make sure that the PS3 version will work.

Yes the PC version is incomplete, but all they have added is basically the heart of the game, the battle system, simple leve quests, and a bit of the main scenario, if thats is working fine then more will be added. (makes it easier to pinpoint a problem and fix it, then add a little more, see how the program accepts it, fix the bugs, wash rince repeat until there is an actual game worth playing.

if they added everything and the 3 main parts of the game where not working, you'd be complaining of a more broken game than anything else, servers would be down alot longer while SE sits there thinking why for example chocbo's are running wild in towns killing player characters, because of a bad programing error for a simple instance where your chocobo nods at you,is conflicting with a NPC selling fish. if everything was added would you think that those 2 where linked?

Give it time and lets see what SE Suprise us with.

the problem is people are not gonna give FFXIV time, most will think this is their 2nd MMO, ofcourse this is right, but its not the same MMO, its entierly new.

FFXI was in the same boat when it 1st hit Japan, 5 rank quests, level 50 max level not many quests, and a system that seemed broken, a year later come NA release, it was totally different form its original form.

i never played wow or EQ so i can't compare with those, how their launch and progression went.

This game is actually PC based, for the sole reason of ffxi's Flaw "ps3 limitations" and ffxi was actually ps2 based then ported over to pc, hence why there where these limitations. the Ps3 is gonna be the Port.

may have gone really off topic here so sorry, just wanted to rant my thoughts :)



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#4 Oct 01 2010 at 10:54 PM Rating: Decent
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A week into release and it's already a "joke" amongst MMO players? Hyperbole does not make a good point. The game will lose a good chunk of subs after the first month. Probably balance out around 200-250k players and then we will see from there. Chances are it will follow the same path as Age of Conan, which is a very impressive game now, finally.

Until then I am enjoying my FFXIV experience and those who are too impatient to wait for the kinks to get worked out will continue jumping from flavor of the week to flavor of the week until the end of their gaming careers. We human beings are a forgetful bunch, we never seem to learn our lesson.
#5 Oct 02 2010 at 12:32 AM Rating: Good
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RyderDecree wrote:
This game is actually PC based, for the sole reason of ffxi's Flaw "ps3 limitations" and ffxi was actually ps2 based then ported over to pc, hence why there where these limitations. the Ps3 is gonna be the Port.


Porting has nothing to do with it. To the extent that FFXI was constrained by PS2 limitations, it would've been that way even it was PC-native and then ported to the PS2.

It's inherent in the fixed, (generally) non-upgradeable nature of consoles. MMOs grow and evolve over time; PCs also do this (because PCs are by nature upgradeable) while consoles simply can not. So if an MMO has a console version, when the limitations of the console hardware get in the way of implementing new features, there are really only two options - either don't add that feature, or drop support for that platform. Any MMO that runs on a console is going to face this issue at some point, no matter what platform it originated on.

There's a reason why the PS2 Everquest (EQOA) is an entirely separate game from EverQuest, rather than a port; by making it a separate game entirely, they ensured that the PS2's hardware limitations would never have an effect on EverQuest itself.
#6 Oct 02 2010 at 12:40 AM Rating: Good
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RyderDecree wrote:
...Also the game has only been out for what 2 weeks? its bringing a new born baby home then thinking "OMG why wont it stop crying?" its gonna take everyone time to adjust...
However, if its your 2nd baby and your first child is oh, around 8 years old, you probably have a pretty **** good idea of what to expect, what to look for, what to do and what to avoid.

Right?
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#7 Oct 02 2010 at 12:41 AM Rating: Default
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I am tired of people calling it a "paid beta."

This is NOT phase 2 of the game, which regardless of the quality (or lack thereof, as some people will insist on having you believe) of phase 3, it cannot be Beta. Beta refers to Phase TWO. Not one, not three, not 9001. Phase Numero Dos (2).

If you want a real paid beta, go play a free to play cash shop game. They'll still charge you for cash shop items, and they won't even wipe anything (usually). Or even better, if you really want a game that's had years to iron out all the bugs and such, play one. Just don't expect games at launch week to be perfect. There amount of connections attempting to log in at once alone usually causes server issues for a month minimum. So far, I've only seen server issues at a specific time of the day.

Sorry if it seems like a rant or something, but I really hate it when people call this "beta" when betas are phase 2, not 3.
#8 Oct 02 2010 at 12:46 AM Rating: Good
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Speaking as someone who is waiting for the PS3 release to play, I would fully understand if a year or two after the PS4 (or whatever they call it) is released SE announces that they will no longer upgrade/support FFXIV on the PS3. I think I'm the minority in saying so, but I figure the cost is still in my favor.

PC upgrades can easily become very costly very quickly. My PS3 cost me less than $300 (USD). I got it this past March for 2 main reasons, FFXIV & a Blu-ray player. My wife getting me FFXII was a bonus (yay!)
If I get a good four or five more years playing FFXIV on it and it's doing well enough that updates/expansions are being done, then I'd much rather hear SE say that they will drop support for PS3 after xx expansion than PS3 limitations.

Now before you go saying I'm crazy, and "I wish I had your money to throw away" and things like that, just think about it as a PC gamer for a second. They have to spend money to update and repair parts. How many people do you know have a six or sever year old PC that performs better then when it came out? Cause that's what the PS2 did. Maybe (just maybe) with future updates Sony and 3rd party companies will learn to push more power out of the PS3, like they did with the PS2 before it died, and give you some very high quality stuff. After it's been pushed to what they feel is the "limit" it just makes sense that console users should upgrade instead of holding back the entire game.


Let me add that I am in no way a Sony "fanboy". I own all 3 "current-gen" systems and if anything, until FFXIV comes out I play on the Nintendo Wii the most out of them. I'm just not into PC gaming or else I'd have a better PC and be playing FFXIV right now instead of posting.
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#9 Oct 02 2010 at 1:05 AM Rating: Good
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Uryuu wrote:
I am tired of people calling it a "paid beta."

This is NOT phase 2 of the game, which regardless of the quality (or lack thereof, as some people will insist on having you believe) of phase 3, it cannot be Beta. Beta refers to Phase TWO. Not one, not three, not 9001. Phase Numero Dos (2).

Phase doesn't matter. If you want to get technical, you're actually playing phase 5. There was one alpha and 3 beta phases. So technically speaking, you're playing beta 4 which is phase 5.

Despite what you want to call it, it is what it is. A version of the game that is not where it should be for release. No, I'm not one of those people who wants the complete game with endgame content and so on. I do expect that if I am asked to pay for a game that it be something worth paying for. Currently, at least for me and quite a few others, it is not.

ReiThor wrote:
If I get a good four or five more years playing FFXIV on it and it's doing well enough that updates/expansions are being done, then I'd much rather hear SE say that they will drop support for PS3 after xx expansion than PS3 limitations.


Never happen. Japanese players prefer console games to PC games at a ratio of 2:1. Dropping support for PS3 would be probably the worst thing SE could do from a business standpoint.
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#10 Oct 02 2010 at 1:15 AM Rating: Default
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By your definition, WoW has been in "Beta" for years.
To this day, people still fall through the world, end up killed by bugged mobs, and generally experience buggy content on a daily basis. You may wish to update your definition of the word.
#11 Oct 02 2010 at 1:22 AM Rating: Good
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Personally, there are some things that appear to have been completely overlooked or ignored. I'm talking about the few things that are missing that blow people's minds. AH or better MW, chat issues, inventory sort, etc. If some of these obvious issues aren't fixed until just before PS3 launch, then it seems that this really is a 'paid beta'. Why? Because we'd be paying for 6 months to play a game with real oversights that could surely be fixed in little time.
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#12 Oct 02 2010 at 1:26 AM Rating: Default
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Timorith wrote:
RyderDecree wrote:
...Also the game has only been out for what 2 weeks? its bringing a new born baby home then thinking "OMG why wont it stop crying?" its gonna take everyone time to adjust...
However, if its your 2nd baby and your first child is oh, around 8 years old, you probably have a pretty **** good idea of what to expect, what to look for, what to do and what to avoid.

Right?


Although I really do agree with you... I need to say this

Quote:
the problem is people are not gonna give FFXIV time, most will think this is their 2nd MMO, ofcourse this is right, but its not the same MMO, its entierly new.



(First off the bat sorry for comparisons to ffxi, but this reply is basically about that)

the problem is... US(thats "us" and not the US :P) the player, we drone on and on about what we would like to see, SE in the most Humble attempt to deliver doesn't quite get it as we want it in our heads. Ergo its a "Fail" (This could be a Cultural preference thing, of how we vision things and is just poorly mistranslated)

I can remember in FFXI and somewhere on ffxi alla boards people talking about how cool it would be if we could manual attack, "It would give us more control over the game" now we have it people are complaining that now you can't casually fight and erm.. i dunno eat a burger.
Same goes for the crafting system, people wanted to do more that just mash a crystal and a few Icons together, they wanted to actually feel like they where crafting. look we have it, its a hit and miss with most of the current players but it's there, in the flesh, and staying.(i'm liking it myself but hate the ingredients setup, +1's +2's of the same item is just inventory clutter to me)

In Se's defence they do listen and try, we forget and hate.(things do seem like a great Idea but we'll never get them exactly how we want)

Example 1 people wanted to raise chocobo's - SE gave us it, but it wasn't the system that we specifically wanted, yet it was like we described.
Example 2 People wanted to Race chocobo's - oh wait they delivered, they spent time to implement a whole zone for us to make us happy, guess what the zones where used for about month, people hated...

SE also made their own modification to the both, which we never asked for, where we can race our own chocobo, ... WTF people loved it??

Example 3...yeah yeah i hate making examples, this one is the last, Hairstyles - still yet to be implemented, but SE have said that we will be able to change our hair ingame, guessing the most campest NPC we've ever seen standing in a house somewhere by a barbers chair and a mirror, fully equiped with a comb and scissors. This is another thing people in FFXI wanted.

Please let SE make this Baby Blossom, Sure it has it's flaws, but doesn't everything?

We've already experienced SE Jumping in right away to sort the problem with the Synthesis, and no Doubt they'll have something lined up for halloween for us to enjoy at the end of this month.







Quote:

Porting has nothing to do with it. To the extent that FFXI was constrained by PS2 limitations, it would've been that way even it was PC-native and then ported to the PS2.

It's inherent in the fixed, (generally) non-upgradeable nature of consoles. MMOs grow and evolve over time; PCs also do this (because PCs are by nature upgradeable) while consoles simply can not. So if an MMO has a console version, when the limitations of the console hardware get in the way of implementing new features, there are really only two options - either don't add that feature, or drop support for that platform. Any MMO that runs on a console is going to face this issue at some point, no matter what platform it originated on.

There's a reason why the PS2 Everquest (EQOA) is an entirely separate game from EverQuest, rather than a port; by making it a separate game entirely, they ensured that the PS2's hardware limitations would never have an effect on EverQuest itself.


yeah i didn't really want to put that in there and don't really understand the porting process, disregard my little flame there :P

6 months down the line, we may or may not look back and say well... i was worth it :)
But i do feel like by the time Ps3 release is there, we will have alot more gameplay and hopefully alot less bugs.

I do Believe SE is trying it's hardest this time around too, to listen and reply to the user.
maybe after this month we will see progression, the Lodestone is a great idea (can't see us using it as it is intended though, doubt i'll ever put a blog on my profile lol)




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#13 Oct 02 2010 at 1:31 AM Rating: Decent
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@John

While you do have a point there, have you ever considered the possibility that SE may actually be mimicking the path they took with FFXI? The AH, subjobs, and so on were added later on, as were many enemies, areas, and features that some of us take for granted in a MMO.

Really though, there's only 2 things that I personally believe are "missing" from the game.

1. Mail System, complete with mog house and furniture crafting.
2. Some type of working search function for the market wards. This would make them nearly identical to an Auction House, but they could still require you to actually go to the Retainer. When you're looking to buy something in a physical marketplace/fleamarket/bazaar in RL, and you shout out "Hey, I'm looking to buy a baseball bat, which of you guys sells them?" the shopkeepers usually shout back "got one right over here!" or "I've got the best bats in town!"

Edited, Oct 2nd 2010 2:32am by Uryuu
#14 Oct 02 2010 at 1:32 AM Rating: Good
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Word of mouth is destroying this game. They'll need to act fast if they expect to have a decent amount of subscribers into next year. I literally don't know anyone IRL who likes this game. There seems to be lots of Square/FF fanboys on here, but I think they're the minority by far.
I have a wait and see attitude. Which is **** imo cause it should be fun and immersive from the start.. not 6 months later.

That "It's just went live! They need to iron out the details!" argument to sooooo invalid. Maybe that was true years ago, but they've had almost 10 years to figure out what makes a successful mmo. There's time to iron out details, they're called alpha/beta phases.
#15 Oct 02 2010 at 1:39 AM Rating: Decent
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rotny wrote:


That "It's just went live! They need to iron out the details!" argument to sooooo invalid. Maybe that was true years ago, but they've had almost 10 years to figure out what makes a successful mmo. There's time to iron out details, they're called alpha/beta phases.


but theyv had 10 years to figure it out right, who even needs alpha/beta testing!? whether u want to believe it or not for the first bit in any mmo there are bugs, crashes, and realizations that things need to be fixed/changed/added. it has nothing to do with fanboyism or whatever, its just the honest truth.
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#16 Oct 02 2010 at 1:57 AM Rating: Good
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Elamille wrote:
rotny wrote:


That "It's just went live! They need to iron out the details!" argument to sooooo invalid. Maybe that was true years ago, but they've had almost 10 years to figure out what makes a successful mmo. There's time to iron out details, they're called alpha/beta phases.


but theyv had 10 years to figure it out right, who even needs alpha/beta testing!? whether u want to believe it or not for the first bit in any mmo there are bugs, crashes, and realizations that things need to be fixed/changed/added. it has nothing to do with fanboyism or whatever, its just the honest truth.


Of course, bugs I can see. It's inevitable, but complete lack of content is inexcusable.
No AH? Fine, we'll sell our crafted mats player to player! Ok, So we can set up shop in a ward and other players will find us quickly and easily right? No? Wait... what? Huh?

There's only a few zones. No public chat outside of shouting and asking random strangers if they want to join linkshells. Even msging back and forth with other players is a total pain. Very few quests unless you want to level multiple crafting classes. No -obvious- tutorials. Terrible terrible menu system. Min system requirements that make a huge % of players go out and buy a new computer just to play it.
It goes on and on. These are things that should have been realised, fixed and/or present in game at launch. Currently we're paying for a incomplete game. That's why people refer to it as "paid-beta", cause essentially that's what it is until they add the basics that make the game playable.
#17 Oct 02 2010 at 2:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Currently we're paying for a incomplete game. That's why people refer to it as "paid-beta", cause essentially that's what it is until they add the basics that make the game playable.


Sounds like the basis of every complaint for every MMO I've played at launch.
#18 Oct 02 2010 at 2:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
While you do have a point there, have you ever considered the possibility that SE may actually be mimicking the path they took with FFXI? The AH, subjobs, and so on were added later on, as were many enemies, areas, and features that some of us take for granted in a MMO.


Yeah, I totally don't expect it to be a complete game content-wise. I'm talking about the things that nearly make the game unplayable or completely annoying in alot of ways. A game simply shouldn't be released with some of these things missing, and if they wait 6 months to put them in, it will look suspiciously like they were happy to let the PC players pay to play it so that it could be complete when the PS3 players get it.
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#19 Oct 02 2010 at 2:27 AM Rating: Good
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ReiThor wrote:
Speaking as someone who is waiting for the PS3 release to play, I would fully understand if a year or two after the PS4 (or whatever they call it) is released SE announces that they will no longer upgrade/support FFXIV on the PS3. I think I'm the minority in saying so, but I figure the cost is still in my favor.


Honestly, I don't see this happening.

After all, FFXI still supports the PS2, which is 10-year-old hardware now, even though the PS3 has been out for four years.

Granted, it's a little bit different with the PS2 - it's the most successful console of all time (the three current consoles combined have only barely outsold it), with games still being made for it and the console itself still being manufactured 10 years after it's release, while the PS3 is in third place, slightly behind the 360.

Of course at this point, it's all academic anyway, as the PS4 is still at least two years away, probably more.
#20 Oct 02 2010 at 2:33 AM Rating: Good
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1. MMO players after playing their favorite MMO for 4+ years become so attached to their precious MMO that the thought of leaving for something else is frieghtning. they will fall back on any excuse to remain in their comfertable familiar MMO

2. every MMO has released "incomplete". its a kurt buisness descision. "collet money now, work out bugs without devoting time/money for inhouse testers to find the bugs and get player feedback" or "keep working on a nearly finished game until everyone agrees its perfect all the while dragging the company into a larger and larger debt and THEN deal with bugs and player feedback"

#21 Oct 02 2010 at 2:43 AM Rating: Good
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SE is a pretty successful company. I don't think they'd have gone bankrupt by pushing the game out another 6 months. Either way, IF this is a 'paid beta', we certainly shouldn't have to foot the bill.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2010 4:43am by johngoforth
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#22 Oct 02 2010 at 2:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Uryuu wrote:
By your definition, WoW has been in "Beta" for years.
To this day, people still fall through the world, end up killed by bugged mobs, and generally experience buggy content on a daily basis. You may wish to update your definition of the word.


I did not define the word beta as a game with bugs. There is a difference between flaws in development and bugs. Any and all games that have regular patches and content updates will always have bugs. These are not the issues I was speaking about. I'm talking about things that are design flaws. For example the recent exploit. Despite the fact that it was pointed out in closed beta, SE did not realize that their system for skilling up caster classes could be taken advantage of. This was not really an exploit as I see it. The system was working as it was intended to, but because SE didn't expect players to group up that way it was overlooked. There are tons of other things too.

The server side UI. The lack of proper keyboard/mouse functionality. The copy pasta. Not being able to invite people to groups/linkshells from a distance. No search function for retainers. No proper support for SLI. Very poor CPU/GPU usage management. So on... Things like this are not bugs, they're just a product of poor design.
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#23 Oct 02 2010 at 3:20 AM Rating: Decent
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This game will be perfectly fine. They just need to drop the port.
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#24 Oct 02 2010 at 3:29 AM Rating: Decent
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johngoforth wrote:
SE is a pretty successful company. I don't think they'd have gone bankrupt by pushing the game out another 6 months. Either way, IF this is a 'paid beta', we certainly shouldn't have to foot the bill.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2010 4:43am by johngoforth


succesful companies like SE dont waste money. officially its not a beta, its a fully functional stand alone game. unoffically <insert your opinion of the day>
#25 Oct 02 2010 at 3:32 AM Rating: Default
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Man I love how all these bashers seem to come out of the woods soon as game is released. If any of you have ever played a MMO at start of service, you wouldn't be here bashing every little glitch or bug you seem to find. I have played both FFXI and then WoW the first days of launch and to tell you they both really sucked. Now FFXI after about a year and its first expansion pack got really good and I really enjoyed the story and game play for 7 years. Can't say same about WoW got bored of it after 8 months but my kids seem to love it now. If you expect a MMO straight out of the box to be perfect in every way then your playing at wrong time you need to wait a year or more to play or your just going to be disappointed and be back on forums bashing for no good reason. Sure FFXIV has a lot of wrinkles that will be ironed out over the next year but the core of the game is sound and I am looking forward to more content being added over the years to come. Please people it's a MMO give it time it will be a great Game if you love FFXI you will love FFXIV more :)
#26 Oct 02 2010 at 3:38 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Despite the fact that it was pointed out in closed beta, SE did not realize that their system for skilling up caster classes could be taken advantage of. This was not really an exploit as I see it. The system was working as it was intended to, but because SE didn't expect players to group up that way it was overlooked.


Is this true? I know for the first 2 phases of Closed Beta you didn't get any SP through healing, not too sure about phase 3 though. Never really tried a 'Mage' class at that point.

An exploit is an exploit. A few of them always crawl through the woodwork as players find ways to manipulate a system to their advantage. This kind of thing is common place with MMO launches. It was dealt with by SE swiftly and we have moved on.

Stuff like this doesn't mean we are playing a 'paid-beta'. That term is woolly at best anyway, we are playing a release game with some major issues. Doesn't make it a beta. I can think of console games that had problems at release and were fixed with a patch (Bayonetta on the PS3 springs to mind), that doesn't mean we were playing a beta build up until that point. I realise this is to a much larger scale with FFXIV but who's to say the game wouldn't have had the exact same problems even if they held it off for 6 months. I'm still pretty sure we would have had no AH, the same UI, and plenty of bugs/ exploits would still have been found.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2010 5:38am by OrenIto
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#27 Oct 02 2010 at 4:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I realise this is to a much larger scale with FFXIV but who's to say the game wouldn't have had the exact same problems even if they held it off for 6 months. I'm still pretty sure we would have had no AH, the same UI, and plenty of bugs/ exploits would still have been found.


If they haven't fixed the MW within 6 months, I can't imagine many people will stick around. But I'm going off of my own feelings. Maybe there's alot of people who are ok with the MW.
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#28 Oct 02 2010 at 4:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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XIglooX wrote:
johngoforth wrote:
SE is a pretty successful company. I don't think they'd have gone bankrupt by pushing the game out another 6 months. Either way, IF this is a 'paid beta', we certainly shouldn't have to foot the bill.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2010 4:43am by johngoforth


succesful companies like SE dont waste money. officially its not a beta, its a fully functional stand alone game. unoffically <insert your opinion of the day>


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#29 Oct 02 2010 at 4:24 AM Rating: Good
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johngoforth wrote:
Quote:
I realise this is to a much larger scale with FFXIV but who's to say the game wouldn't have had the exact same problems even if they held it off for 6 months. I'm still pretty sure we would have had no AH, the same UI, and plenty of bugs/ exploits would still have been found.


If they haven't fixed the MW within 6 months, I can't imagine many people will stick around. But I'm going off of my own feelings. Maybe there's alot of people who are ok with the MW.


I agree with you 100%, the market wards are the worst thing about this game. What I meant was if they had waited and released both the PC and PS3 version together in March 2011 we could still have the same as we have now, no-one playing = no feedback.

Edit: Grammar


Edited, Oct 2nd 2010 6:27am by OrenIto
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#30 Oct 02 2010 at 4:24 AM Rating: Good
29 posts
FilthMcNasty wrote:


For example the recent exploit. Despite the fact that it was pointed out in closed beta, SE did not realize that their system for skilling up caster classes could be taken advantage of. This was not really an exploit as I see it. The system was working as it was intended to, but because SE didn't expect players to group up that way it was overlooked. There are tons of other things too.



You definition is a little off there. In beta casters were complaining that they felt left out on skill point gains if they were in a team and spent their time healing instead of DPS'in. SE took the players request and put in a skill point gain for healing spells, to which the same people who were complaining about not getting SP gains were now using it to exploit the system and gain levels far and beyond anyone else. An exploit is the action of exploiting a bug after it is known for the purpose of receiving gain above and beyond the normal game populace. It doesn't matter if the thing being exploited is a design flaw or normal bug, if they are using and abusing it for personal gain, then it is an exploit and they are exploiting the system. In this case it had to be obvious they were gaining above and beyond the populace, and they should have reported it instead of continued to abuse it (lvl 1 to lvl 30 in 2 days is obviously not what everyone else was doing).

WAR also encountered this same issue with its healing classes early on, the player base complained enough about not gaining enough points in teams by dedicating as a healer. When they put it in the players abused it as well, they took the action of an emergency maintenance to remove it within hours of putting it in though, and added it back a couple weeks later at a greatly reduced level.




Edited, Oct 2nd 2010 6:28am by Kedd
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#31 Oct 02 2010 at 3:46 PM Rating: Default
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196 posts
StrijderVechter wrote:
XIglooX wrote:
johngoforth wrote:
SE is a pretty successful company. I don't think they'd have gone bankrupt by pushing the game out another 6 months. Either way, IF this is a 'paid beta', we certainly shouldn't have to foot the bill.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2010 4:43am by johngoforth


succesful companies like SE dont waste money. officially its not a beta, its a fully functional stand alone game. unoffically <insert your opinion of the day>


The Spirits Within says "Hi!"


the descision to make a movie with the final fantasy name wasnt a poor one. its called risk and they took one and failed. it would be the same if avatar flopped, the most expensive movie ever made with one of the longest production times. the major population liked avatar the major population didnt like spirits withen, risk.
#32 Oct 02 2010 at 3:55 PM Rating: Excellent
StormTech wrote:
Man I love how all these bashers seem to come out of the woods soon as game is released.


That's what happens when a game is bad. :(

Quote:
If any of you have ever played a MMO at start of service, you wouldn't be here bashing every little glitch or bug you seem to find.


nobody is bashing 'every little glitch and bug', they're bashing terrible design decisions. If you want to make a point, address the assertion you're arguing against, not make up a BS strawman.
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#33 Oct 02 2010 at 4:00 PM Rating: Default
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Its a MMO it will grow by about 300% atleast by the ps3 release. you cannot base a conclusion about a MMO on release day NO MMO has much content at release.

Take FFXI it had:
Zones: Sandy, ronf, jugner, lathene, batalia, bassy, gusta, konstat, pashow, rolanberry, windy, saruta, tahrongi, meriph and saramgue (SP? on most of those).

Jobs: WAR, WHM, BLM, RDM, MNK, THF

No AH.

And so many server crashes SE offered moneyback for the subscription or extra free months subscription.

Thats about it prolly crafts and HELM nothing else and its been going for 8yrs upto now.

So op STFU you know nothing about what makes MMOs succed.

You dont base a final conclusion on launch, maybe about 6months - 1yr after launch you do.

PS US got ffxi 18 months after JP so dont try to compare the two launches unless you know what happened at the JP launch.
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#34 Oct 02 2010 at 4:03 PM Rating: Good
scrish wrote:
Its a MMO it will grow by about 300% atleast by the ps3 release. you cannot base a conclusion about a MMO on release day NO MMO has much content at release.

Take FFXI it had:
Zones: Sandy, ronf, jugner, lathene, batalia, bassy, gusta, konstat, pashow, rolanberry, windy, saruta, tahrongi, meriph and saramgue (SP? on most of those).

Jobs: WAR, WHM, BLM, RDM, MNK, THF

No AH.

And so many server crashes SE offered moneyback for the subscription or extra free months subscription.

Thats about it prolly crafts and HELM nothing else and its been going for 8yrs upto now.

So op STFU you know nothing about what makes MMOs succed.

You dont base a final conclusion on launch, maybe about 6months - 1yr after launch you do.

PS US got ffxi 18 months after JP so dont try to compare the two launches unless you know what happened at the JP launch.


Yeah and when PONG was released, it didn't even have inventory, so all you complainers that want to sort your inventory need to remember Pong. How dare you expect games to advance. Especially made be the same company. In the same game series.


Edited, Oct 2nd 2010 3:04pm by digitalcraft
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#35 Oct 02 2010 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
40 posts
Cool story, Nostradamus.
#36scrish, Posted: Oct 02 2010 at 4:09 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) WTF are you smoking? the op was saying bc of lack of content and the usual things ppl have been flaming SE needs somthing special to make it succed, I was pointing out that what the LAUNCH of a game is like is useless to place an absolute view of the game on and you come out with this ******* *********
#37 Oct 02 2010 at 4:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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2,045 posts
Quote:
Its a MMO it will grow by about 300% atleast by the ps3 release. you cannot base a conclusion about a MMO on release day NO MMO has much content at release.

Take FFXI it had:
Zones: Sandy, ronf, jugner, lathene, batalia, bassy, gusta, konstat, pashow, rolanberry, windy, saruta, tahrongi, meriph and saramgue (SP? on most of those).

Jobs: WAR, WHM, BLM, RDM, MNK, THF

No AH.

And so many server crashes SE offered moneyback for the subscription or extra free months subscription.

Thats about it prolly crafts and HELM nothing else and its been going for 8yrs upto now.

So op STFU you know nothing about what makes MMOs succed.

You dont base a final conclusion on launch, maybe about 6months - 1yr after launch you do.

PS US got ffxi 18 months after JP so dont try to compare the two launches unless you know what happened at the JP launch.


FFXI was launched around 10 years ago when MMO's were totally different and there was very little honest compeition for monthly fees, it was also Square's first MMO and they had very little experience what players wanted.

This is now 10 years later, they have had those 10 years experience creating, extending with expansions and maintaining a popular MMO. There is no way they should of made the game how it is right now and honestly they should be ashamed to put it out in such a bad state, with things they KNOW should be there and with such little actual content. There is no excuse for how this game is at all. It's like a game made by amateurs new to the genre.

Even small things like the UI, they really thought players would like that? The game is a a huge mess, stop making excuses for incompetent decisions. The game needed more time in development before they threw it out the door. Whoever designed a lot of the key ideas of the game needs a kick up the *** too.

This is even worse than what they did with Final Fantasy 13, it will (maybe) get better with time but it's going to get a horriblly bad reputation in the mean time. Some games never recover from that.
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#38 Oct 02 2010 at 4:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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preludes wrote:


This is even worse than what they did with Final Fantasy 13, it will (maybe) get better with time but it's going to get a horriblly bad reputation in the mean time. Some games never recover from that.



Maybe in terms of first impressions, but the main difference is FFXIV is a MMO, I think it WILL get better in time, it pretty much has to. FFXIII was just...ugh...

With FFXIV it's like SE purposely shot themselves in the foot and said, "It's OK I know a good doctor. It's just that he's in Guatemala right now and won't be here until a few weeks."
#39 Oct 02 2010 at 4:45 PM Rating: Excellent
scrish wrote:
digitalcraft, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
scrish wrote:
Its a MMO it will grow by about 300% atleast by the ps3 release. you cannot base a conclusion about a MMO on release day NO MMO has much content at release.

Take FFXI it had:
Zones: Sandy, ronf, jugner, lathene, batalia, bassy, gusta, konstat, pashow, rolanberry, windy, saruta, tahrongi, meriph and saramgue (SP? on most of those).

Jobs: WAR, WHM, BLM, RDM, MNK, THF

No AH.

And so many server crashes SE offered moneyback for the subscription or extra free months subscription.

Thats about it prolly crafts and HELM nothing else and its been going for 8yrs upto now.

So op STFU you know nothing about what makes MMOs succed.

You dont base a final conclusion on launch, maybe about 6months - 1yr after launch you do.

PS US got ffxi 18 months after JP so dont try to compare the two launches unless you know what happened at the JP launch.


Yeah and when PONG was released, it didn't even have inventory, so all you complainers that want to sort your inventory need to remember Pong. How dare you expect games you advance. Especially made be the same company. In the same game series.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2010 3:04pm by digitalcraft


WTF are you smoking? the op was saying bc of lack of content and the usual things ppl have been flaming SE needs somthing special to make it succed, I was pointing out that what the LAUNCH of a game is like is useless to place an absolute view of the game on and you come out with this @#%^ing bullsh*t.

IF YOU DONT LIKE THE GAME STOP @#%^ING PLAYING DONT SAY "This game is sh*t because of lack of content, bugs, anything that will be fixed in a few months, but I will keep playing to spread bullsh*t so the game will fail"


Why U mad tho?

I know what you said. And I alluded that it's silly to excuse this game based on what a game 10 years ago did, because it is not currently 10 years ago. No use freaking out about it. I didn't say any of the things you frothed about.
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#40scrish, Posted: Oct 02 2010 at 4:45 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So let me get this right, you want every piece of possible content for ffxiv at release so you can fly through, get it all done in about 1yr then quit? The big money for MMOs is in the monthly fees, if they release everything at launch for ppl to get done in 1yr the game is a failure when everyone quits because its boring, ffxiv will not make a profit until atleast yr 5 so with regular content updates and expansions over time they can keep the ppl playing at launch to keep playing in the 5th yr so they can make profit on the game.
#41scrish, Posted: Oct 02 2010 at 4:50 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I just dont like the fact that 99% of ppl on these forums are getting mad because this is a NEW MMO, all MMOs have issues at release and you dont see this many trolls. i am just getting the feeling that everyone on these forums are trying to make this game fail because its differant to what there used to and cant take it, you included, i have seen you troll just as much as anyone on these forums GIVE THE FICKING GAME A CHANCE, THEY CANT FIX EVERYTHING OVER NIGHT IT TAKES TIME.
#42 Oct 02 2010 at 4:51 PM Rating: Excellent
scrish wrote:

So let me get this right, you want every piece of possible content for ffxiv at release so you can fly through, get it all done in about 1yr then quit?



When you come back to reality, come talk to us, because I have no idea who the **** you're talking to. Nobody said any of these things you're attacking.
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#43scrish, Posted: Oct 02 2010 at 4:56 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You are crying because theres not much content i admit we could do with more quests but i have seen ppl trolling about no endgame content yet, why the **** do we even need endgame yet when we cant even do it, this is just 1 example of people wanting everything at once
#44 Oct 02 2010 at 5:01 PM Rating: Excellent
scrish wrote:
digitalcraft, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
scrish wrote:

So let me get this right, you want every piece of possible content for ffxiv at release so you can fly through, get it all done in about 1yr then quit?



When you come back to reality, come talk to us, because I have no idea who the **** you're talking to. Nobody said any of these things you're attacking.


You are crying because theres not much content i admit we could do with more quests but i have seen ppl trolling about no endgame content yet, why the @#%^ do we even need endgame yet when we cant even do it, this is just 1 example of people wanting everything at once


crying huh. I said its silly to make excuses based on a 10 year old game. Again, its like you have voices in you're head you're responding to.
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#45 Oct 02 2010 at 5:02 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
scrish wrote:
You are crying because...
orly?

scrish wrote:
I was pointing out that what the LAUNCH of a game is like is useless to place an absolute view of the game on and you come out with this @#%^ing bullsh*t.

IF YOU DONT LIKE THE GAME STOP @#%^ING PLAYING DONT SAY "This game is sh*t because of lack of content, bugs, anything that will be fixed in a few months, but I will keep playing to spread bullsh*t so the game will fail"
scrish wrote:
GIVE THE FICKING GAME A CHANCE, THEY CANT FIX EVERYTHING OVER NIGHT IT TAKES TIME.
U mad.
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Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
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#46 Oct 02 2010 at 5:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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1,636 posts
I'm ok with the lack of content for right now. Basically all there is to do is level and do some of the early story missions. Leveling is gonna take as long as it takes, and it doesn't matter what content is out if I cant do it yet anyways.

What I'm upset about for the most part, is things that there is no good reason are not in the game. Its not a design choice to not have an inventory sort function. Nobody is even debatable better off without one. the Chat system is awful. I can't retroactively filter to make sure nobody talked to me while i was afk. I can't make my own custom chat windows. I can't bind anything to my mouse. These are things that are just mind boggling.
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#47 Oct 02 2010 at 5:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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575 posts
XIglooX wrote:

the descision to make a movie with the final fantasy name wasnt a poor one. its called risk and they took one and failed.


You don't know what you're talking about. They put an insane amount of money into the movie - literally banking the company on its success. It failed and Squaresoft as we once knew it is no more. That "risk" forced the merger with Enix and the company has never been the powerhouse again since.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2010 7:23pm by Vawn43
#48 Oct 02 2010 at 5:25 PM Rating: Excellent
There's a lesson to be learned here. You only get one hail mary!
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#49 Oct 02 2010 at 5:31 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
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575 posts
scrish wrote:
i am just getting the feeling that everyone on these forums are trying to make this game fail because its differant to what there used to and cant take it, you included, i have seen you troll just as much as anyone on these forums GIVE THE FICKING GAME A CHANCE, THEY CANT FIX EVERYTHING OVER NIGHT IT TAKES TIME.

If you cant take that the just quit the game rather than say its sh*t everytime you hit a lag spike or fail a synth ffs.


With intelligent fan boys such as your self so elegantly defending the game, I don't think SE has anything to worry about the game's reputation.
#50 Oct 02 2010 at 5:33 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
XIglooX wrote:
StrijderVechter wrote:
XIglooX wrote:
johngoforth wrote:
SE is a pretty successful company. I don't think they'd have gone bankrupt by pushing the game out another 6 months. Either way, IF this is a 'paid beta', we certainly shouldn't have to foot the bill.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2010 4:43am by johngoforth


succesful companies like SE dont waste money. officially its not a beta, its a fully functional stand alone game. unoffically <insert your opinion of the day>


The Spirits Within says "Hi!"


the descision to make a movie with the final fantasy name wasnt a poor one. its called risk and they took one and failed. it would be the same if avatar flopped, the most expensive movie ever made with one of the longest production times. the major population liked avatar the major population didnt like spirits withen, risk.
The movie didn't fail just because people decided to not like it, they actually made a really ****** movie. THAT was a poor decision and a waste of money.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#51 Oct 02 2010 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
I didn't think it was that bad. >.>;; The cutscenes from the Xenosaga 'games' (solve puzzle to see next part of movie) was better though.
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