Forum Settings
       
1 2 Next »
This Forum is Read Only

Could the "paid beta for PS3 release" plan backfire?Follow

#52 Oct 02 2010 at 5:55 PM Rating: Excellent
*
89 posts
scrish wrote:

Take FFXI it had:
Zones: Sandy, ronf, jugner, lathene, batalia, bassy, gusta, konstat, pashow, rolanberry, windy, saruta, tahrongi, meriph and saramgue (SP? on most of those).

No. You forgot beastmen citadels at the very least.

Quote:

Jobs: WAR, WHM, BLM, RDM, MNK, THF

Forgot PLD, DRK, BRD, BST, RNG.

Quote:

No AH.

That was added before the "free month" was up.

Quote:

And so many server crashes SE offered moneyback for the subscription or extra free months subscription.

For the first week, yes.

Quote:

So op STFU you know nothing about what makes MMOs succed.

You don't seem to be a fountain of wisdom yourself, good sir.
FF XI even on the release day was leaps and bounds ahead of FF XIV. Even FF XI beta was more fun than FF XIV release.
#53 Oct 02 2010 at 6:24 PM Rating: Decent
****
4,153 posts
OrenIto wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Despite the fact that it was pointed out in closed beta, SE did not realize that their system for skilling up caster classes could be taken advantage of. This was not really an exploit as I see it. The system was working as it was intended to, but because SE didn't expect players to group up that way it was overlooked.


Is this true? I know for the first 2 phases of Closed Beta you didn't get any SP through healing, not too sure about phase 3 though. Never really tried a 'Mage' class at that point.


Yes, but it wasn't specifically dealing with healing or buffs. It happened that caster classes in general were skilling much faster than other classes. If you team up with a melee class as a caster and you're about as active as they are, you will still come out ahead in skill points. If you think about it, it just makes sense. If a party of 5 is fighting a mob, all of the melee have one target... the mob. If you're healing the group then you have the mob as a target including your group, so 6 potential targets for your spells including yourself.

I agree that an exploit is an exploit, but in this case it was just begging to be raped. This is also not on the level of things like the duping or fishing rusties from back in the XI days. It's closer to smn burns. Using something that is working as it should to a higher degree than the devs thought people would. The same is true on the other extreme.

Take weapons and gear wearing down as an example. Actions you perform in game are all meant to make your gear wear down. The mechanic is working as intended. So therefore, by definition of exploit, removing your clothing while synthing qualifies as well. So in this case, should SE have a maintenance to disallow 'skinny crafting'? Should we investigate people who are using this to their advantage and strip them of the gil it should have cost them to repair? If it's going to be black and white, then it's gotta be pitch black and ghost white.

The term 'paid beta' only applies to games with subscription fees. The premise is that people feel like they're paying for a game that should not have been released in its current state. As we all know, with MMOs content, patches and the like all come in downloaded updates. I like to use analogies, so here goes...

In essence, having the ability to patch and update content allows the developer to write a post dated-check(content), but still make the players believe they have already been paid. If I were SE I could come out and say "Hey guys, the level cap is going to be 50 and we WILL have endgame content available at launch!" I would be able to make this claim even though there is currently no endgame content. How? Surplus. By keeping people from advancing beyond a certain stage I buy time to actually develop and implement that content I promised. You really have no way of knowing that the endgame is non-existant because you can't get to the level you need to be before I take your money for a few months to create it.


____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#54 Oct 02 2010 at 7:42 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
54 posts
Other than a less than friendly UI, no AH, unfriendly chat and no retainer search, is the game really that awful?
I understand the content complaints, but it's a new game. A new game that is trying to be vastly different than XI.

/shrug
____________________________
FFXI Retired - 75 RNG/MNK/BLM/RDM/BRD/SMN.
WoW Retired - 70 Druid/Mage/Warlock/Shaman
Quote:
KristoFurwalken seyz: The bottom line is if this game didn't have "Final Fantasy" in the title no one would be defending it.
#55Louiscool, Posted: Oct 02 2010 at 7:46 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) judging from the ratings here I can tell the people who life ffxiv have abandoned the forum for then ext 14 days (until all the complainer's free trials run out) and the forum is just filled with people who think we care.
#56 Oct 02 2010 at 7:56 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
Leskura wrote:
Other than a less than friendly UI, no AH, unfriendly chat and no retainer search, is the game really that awful?
I understand the content complaints, but it's a new game. A new game that is trying to be vastly different than XI.

/shrug
The lack of things to do other than grind (which is fine for a MMO) is probably magnifying the problem. Not saying it's a realistic expectation, but if the UI was slick and the fundamentals (like an AH and/or retainer search) were already in place at release, people would be much more willing to put up with the game to see what will come.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#57 Oct 02 2010 at 8:07 PM Rating: Excellent
*
63 posts
Quote:
Other than a less than friendly UI, no AH, unfriendly chat and no retainer search, is the game really that awful?
I understand the content complaints, but it's a new game. A new game that is trying to be vastly different than XI.

I assume that's why people are so vehement in voicing their complaints. The core of the game is compelling. The basic mechanics, concepts, and implementation are all there. There is an absolutely great game laying underneath the mind-blowing amount of asinine design decisions. But those asinine decisions add up over time. People want to like this game, else they would just quit the game, quit the forums, and not bother voicing their concerns.

FFXIV is the equivalent of a delicious candy bar that has gravel on the outside of it, rather than chocolate. The nougat in the middle is delicious, but playing it is dependent on whether or not you can chew through the gravelly shell of an idiotic UI, an economy that bronze age barbarians would scoff at, and the multitude of other minor issues that add up to a frustrating experience. The game is trying to be different at the expense of what has already been proven to work. It's like a car company putting square wheels on a car "just to see how it develops," before making any changes. Don't reinvent the wheel.
#58 Oct 02 2010 at 8:26 PM Rating: Decent
*
89 posts
bsphil wrote:
Leskura wrote:
Other than a less than friendly UI, no AH, unfriendly chat and no retainer search, is the game really that awful?
I understand the content complaints, but it's a new game. A new game that is trying to be vastly different than XI.

/shrug
The lack of things to do other than grind (which is fine for a MMO) is probably magnifying the problem.


If only it had grind. It does not. The most effective way to earn skillpoints outside of levequests is to spam your weakest attack on the weakest monsters you can find. Grouping together or going after higher monsters is punished with lower SP rate. In levequests the only difference is that you also need to be careful not to prematurely finish the quest by killing the targets too soon. FF XIV is so unlike the FF XI that people are already complaining about doing damaging weapon skills and nukes in levequests, I have no doubt that if for some bizarre reason core players continue to play after the trial period you will be kicked out of levequest party unless you have lv1 weapon with 0 durability left and there will be posts on Allah like "QQ those elitist kicked me out because I used weaponskill, is not it a MRD job to use those?".
#59 Oct 02 2010 at 8:31 PM Rating: Good
***
1,636 posts
Quote:
Take weapons and gear wearing down as an example. Actions you perform in game are all meant to make your gear wear down. The mechanic is working as intended. So therefore, by definition of exploit, removing your clothing while synthing qualifies as well. So in this case, should SE have a maintenance to disallow 'skinny crafting'? Should we investigate people who are using this to their advantage and strip them of the gil it should have cost them to repair? If it's going to be black and white, then it's gotta be pitch black and ghost white.


Naked crafting is not an exploit because clothing offers crafting stats. If you dont have anything for that slot with some form of + control/crafting, than taking it off is just smart. its the same as combat without armor, its not smart, but it will get you around repairs. After rank 10 or so, naked crafting only really works on things you're well above anyways. much like gtinding on marmots with phys level 30 naked.
____________________________


#60 Oct 02 2010 at 9:26 PM Rating: Default
*
189 posts
Of course this is paid beta, cataclysm come out in a month so they had to rush it.....but...will it pay off with such a bad UI? Its twice as fast as open beta but still so painfully slow. Oh and I found a way to sort my inventory. Goto your retainer and trade all the items you want to synth next, then trade back and they will all be at the bottom.
____________________________
FFXI Alexandar 51 SUM
Ramuh 50 SUM 53 THF
WoW Malygos 80MAG 60 WLK
The forgtn cst 80 MAG 73 WLK

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/rc/character/status?cicuid=2494669
Retainer: Weaponsandshields
#61 Oct 03 2010 at 2:11 AM Rating: Good
***
2,535 posts
Vawn43 wrote:
XIglooX wrote:

the descision to make a movie with the final fantasy name wasnt a poor one. its called risk and they took one and failed.


You don't know what you're talking about. They put an insane amount of money into the movie - literally banking the company on its success. It failed and Squaresoft as we once knew it is no more. That "risk" forced the merger with Enix and the company has never been the powerhouse again since.


Not true.

Enix was looking to acquire Square before Spirits Within even came out.

The abysmal failure of Spirits Within hurt Square so badly financially that it made Enix have doubts about the wisdom of purchasing Square, and actually delayed the merger.
#62 Oct 03 2010 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
HachiLihachi wrote:
If only it had grind. It does not.
HachiLihachi wrote:
The most effective way to earn skillpoints outside of levequests is to spam your weakest attack on the weakest monsters you can find.
How is that not grinding?
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#63 Oct 03 2010 at 11:38 AM Rating: Decent
*
89 posts
bsphil wrote:
HachiLihachi wrote:
If only it had grind. It does not.
HachiLihachi wrote:
The most effective way to earn skillpoints outside of levequests is to spam your weakest attack on the weakest monsters you can find.
How is that not grinding?


Grinding is about 100 times more fun. I've seen many f2p games that did not have anything but grinding and very poorly implemented one as well yet even in those it was more enjoyable than 111111111111 in FF XIV.
#64 Oct 03 2010 at 12:02 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
2,153 posts
Agreed. ATM parties in FFXIV consist of far too much 111111111, and far too little 1264192 in unison with dodging right, left and back. Because you either don't have to (mob too weak) or can zerg literally anything anyway (like guildleves). That's the downside of no EXP penalty.
#65 Oct 03 2010 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
*
89 posts
Rinsui wrote:
Agreed. ATM parties in FFXIV consist of far too much 111111111, and far too little 1264192 in unison with dodging right, left and back. Because you either don't have to (mob too weak) or can zerg literally anything anyway (like guildleves). That's the downside of no EXP penalty.


I think it's the problem with the way exp is calculated and has nothing to do with EXP penalty. You are penalized for using stronger attacks, you are penalized for using other classes abilities, you are penalized for curing and buffing.
#66 Oct 03 2010 at 12:47 PM Rating: Default
14 posts
yfaithfully wrote:
It seemed smart enough - you're releasing the only true MMO for a console, you're SE, the IP is Final Fantasy - you've got a guaranteed seller on your hands, but why not work out the kinks to your game by getting PC fans to pay you to beta test? Mo' money, mo' money, mo'money!

Well, mo' money, mo' problems. The thing is, they rushed our this incomplete "paid beta" and it could be such a spectacular fail at launch that the very property could be sullied before it even gets a chance to fly at the "real" release for the PS3. Amazon dropping the price by $10 after less than 2 days? Begging reviewers to keep it in the dark? The least exciting MMO launch in history? (If you consider yesterday the true launch - many here say the servers didn't even seem fuller!) The EXTREMELY negative Japanese Amazon reviews?

Unless SE can promise PS3 gamers a completely new experience, word of mouth is gonna travel FAST and in a few weeks it's gonna be a complete joke among gamers at large (it already is in most MMO communities), and even PS3 gamers are gonna avoid it like the plague.

But can they promise a totally improved experience in just a few short months, given the many basic bugs they face, not to mention the lack of content?

Whats with this "real release" B.S. You mean to tell me that it`s not an offical release until the PS3 crowd gets it. Arn`t we all high and mighty.
#67 Oct 03 2010 at 1:40 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
963 posts
scrish wrote:
Take FFXI it had:
Zones: Sandy, ronf, jugner, lathene, batalia, bassy, gusta, konstat, pashow, rolanberry, windy, saruta, tahrongi, meriph and saramgue (SP? on most of those).

Jobs: WAR, WHM, BLM, RDM, MNK, THF

No AH.

And so many server crashes SE offered moneyback for the subscription or extra free months subscription.


Server crashed, yes. no AH, yes. But still, the basic game play were pretty nailed down from release. How you target mobs, how you attack, how things work are pretty well done when FFXI came out. Targetting system, chat system, LS, skillchains, they were all there. The basics were ALL there.

FFXIV right now feels like they're working on the skin instead of nailing down the core....
#68 Oct 03 2010 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good
*
66 posts
At first, they thought SE would take the feedback from Alpha and implement logical changes in closed beta phase 1.
Then, they thought SE would fix complaints from closed beta phase 1 and implement the changes in closed beta phase 2.
Then, they held out hope for SE to fix everything in closed beta phase 3.
And then, they desperately held their judgments until they had experienced a taste of Open Beta.
When it all failed, they banked their hopes on the crucial day -- Release Date.

At the end, the realization came that not much (besides some of the lag) has drastically changed from Alpha to release.

I know a few of my friends are still waiting to see whether SE changes some of the crucial aspects of the game. There is a huge lack of communication with the player base. It all makes sense now - what are they going to talk to you about when they are not even willing to fix things people gave them feedback about in Alpha/Beta? What exactly were Alpha and Beta phases for?
#69 Oct 03 2010 at 2:12 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
2,153 posts
You forget to mention the ultimate excuse:
"It's a MMORPG, it needs to grow".

BS. That formula worked 10 years ago.
Now it's hit or miss.
#70 Oct 03 2010 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
34 posts
Rinsui wrote:
You forget to mention the ultimate excuse:
"It's a MMORPG, it needs to grow".

BS. That formula worked 10 years ago.
Now it's hit or miss.


I agree with you. While i really really like SE's take on the MMO, that doesn't mean they should try and re-invent the wheel. Past MMOs should be an insanely strong indicator of what works well and what doesn't. What's infuriatingly annoying is that SE has a previous MMO that they can learn from, let alone the other success/failures on the market.

I'm all for mixing it up, but for SE to ignore all the information in front of them, put their hands over their ears and start shouting "CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!" is stupid. If you catch my drift ^^
#71 Oct 03 2010 at 2:28 PM Rating: Default
*
196 posts
Vawn43 wrote:
XIglooX wrote:

the descision to make a movie with the final fantasy name wasnt a poor one. its called risk and they took one and failed.


You don't know what you're talking about. They put an insane amount of money into the movie - literally banking the company on its success. It failed and Squaresoft as we once knew it is no more. That "risk" forced the merger with Enix and the company has never been the powerhouse again since.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2010 7:23pm by Vawn43


what is it i dont know what im talking about? i said the company took a risk to make more money. they did. you agree with me. if they made the movie after knowing it would fail then they would have made a bad buisness discision. they didnt. the movie "sucked" so it didnt bring in a lot of money and only after the movie "sucked" did it become a bad descision. hence buisnesses dont waste money by making desicions they know will cause them to lose money(like waiting a few more years than they have to to release a MMO). please take in my entire argument before latching onto three words(the spritis withen) and going on a tryranical rant about how that movie almost killed square, which it didnt. if you notice they still make high end games.

#72 Oct 03 2010 at 2:36 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
2,153 posts
I do. It's nice to try something new; Chocobos are way better than horses, after all.
But this time they apparently decided to "reinvent the horse" by giving it three legs.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 4:38pm by Rinsui
#73 Oct 03 2010 at 9:28 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
54 posts
Some good (and funny) points, gravel candy coating and square wheels - lmao. The grocery store was great too. :p
Rinsui wrote:
You forget to mention the ultimate excuse:
"It's a MMORPG, it needs to grow".

BS. That formula worked 10 years ago.
Now it's hit or miss.


You're right, but you also have to remember that they're trying to make a different experience, it's just unfortunate that in their effort to overhaul the system and maybe make things better, they're instead hurting the experience at the moment. I guess my position is a little difficult because the PC I built for XI can't handle XIV so I can't find this stuff out for myself, I have to go by all of the threads I'm reading and it's a mix of "it's great, but flawed" vs "worst thing ever".
I'll still be trying it at some point though.
____________________________
FFXI Retired - 75 RNG/MNK/BLM/RDM/BRD/SMN.
WoW Retired - 70 Druid/Mage/Warlock/Shaman
Quote:
KristoFurwalken seyz: The bottom line is if this game didn't have "Final Fantasy" in the title no one would be defending it.
#74 Oct 04 2010 at 1:24 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
1,339 posts
trebor1950 wrote:
Whats with this "real release" B.S. You mean to tell me that it`s not an offical release until the PS3 crowd gets it. Arn`t we all high and mighty.


It isn't BS. It's how the company views the releases. They're putting more thought in how it'll play for the PS3 than for the PC because to them that's their cash cow as it's more dominant than the PC in the Japanese market.

People laughed and called others idiots when they were told that the PC is the paid beta for the PS3. Looking now at how little has changed since the Alpha release and the SE release, it's a tough pill to swallow. They've shelled out the money on a company they've trusted and pray that the game will get better, soon.
#75 Oct 04 2010 at 1:27 AM Rating: Good
**
608 posts
the ps3 version is gonna be gimped, bet it has to stream off the hdd and run crappy like the console versions of oblivion.

funny how people say the game is fail but they play it or its a joke and they still playing it.
#76 Oct 04 2010 at 1:30 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
2,153 posts
Quote:
funny how people say the game is fail but they play it or its a joke and they still playing it.

There's a proverb where I come from.
"Hope dies last".
#77 Oct 04 2010 at 8:29 AM Rating: Default
14 posts
StrijderVechter wrote:
trebor1950 wrote:
Whats with this "real release" B.S. You mean to tell me that it`s not an offical release until the PS3 crowd gets it. Arn`t we all high and mighty.


It isn't BS. It's how the company views the releases. They're putting more thought in how it'll play for the PS3 than for the PC because to them that's their cash cow as it's more dominant than the PC in the Japanese market.

People laughed and called others idiots when they were told that the PC is the paid beta for the PS3. Looking now at how little has changed since the Alpha release and the SE release, it's a tough pill to swallow. They've shelled out the money on a company they've trusted and pray that the game will get better, soon.

No, it`s B.S.
1 2 Next »
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 17 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (17)