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Revelation on "Exping" in FFXIV (important read)Follow

#1 Oct 02 2010 at 10:32 PM Rating: Good
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So I was just soloing my PUG, and suddenly a big realization hit me. I've tried fast-grinding these mobs as fast as possible to get higher "exp per hour" like i did in FFXI. Because of this I was feeling stressed for pops/competition which made me take risks with low hp (instead of resting when i really should) and generally feeling pressure.

Then I tried killing one slow, it was a lot smoother, and at the end i got more SP for the kill.

As far as I understand it, SP doesn't work like exp. It's just showing you the total of your individual Skillups gained in that fight. Which explains why one kill will be 60SP and the next might be 140SP. It's showing how many skillups you got by random luck while hitting.

Putting 2&2 together, It clicked: It doesn't matter how fast I kill these, I'm punching just as often in the same span of time. Killing 2 moles in 2 minutes might give me 2x60SP fast, but killing 1 mole in that time, will grant me 120SP too. You can 1 shot Tough mobs all day, if you don't get a skillup on that shot, you'll get 0 SP to show for them.

Point being, with this system, it all evens out, no matter how fast or slow you kill. The important thing is you kill it and claim that SP you built up. (Unless there's a very low SP cap per monster, which I'm not sure if there is).

 
Tacky Visual Aid: 
 
Fast kill method: |-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| 1 hour mark: 10,000SP 
Slow kill method: |-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----| 1 hour mark: 10,000SP 
 
*|---| = 1 battle/kill. 


The main difference is : One way of exping is stressful, one is laid back. They both should average the same SP over 1 hour no matter how fast you kill. SP doesn't rise with kills, it raises with attack rounds. Grinding mobs fast does nothing to change this, hitting harder mobs does.

The implication to parties is exciting. It means the idea of a party would be "Go hit tough things together" and would have absolutely no pressures to "Kill faster, shut up and kill faster!!!". You could be wailing on a crab for 15 minutes, you're getting 5000SP when it finally dies. Wouldn't it be fun to try this way to party, instead of grinding endless fast-paced pulls? It seems as if this system encourages that "calm down you're getting the same SP/hr no matter how slow you kill" state of mind. Because it's the fact. It also means you don't need a massive camp, you can use just 3 reallly slow-kill tough enemies and go all day.

In FFXI, The key to fast exp was speeding up kills.
In FFXIV, The key to fast SP is surviving/hitting higher level enemies.


If we can get everyone to these realizations, we will have an awesome time partying in this game.
The sooner we understand this new mentality as a group, the sooner we can start having the real fun.

I really hope I explained this well because it's been like an awakening for me that i really want to share with the whole player base. As the Japanese say "Sho ga nai.", can't change how fast the exp for a certain mob comes in, so might as well enjoy the ride.



Extra thoughts:
This system is genius for SE. It means they know the maximum SP/hr you will get no matter how fast you kill. This system is immune to people squeezing out more SP/hr than they predicted. They know the average SP gain per hour of every level range of mobs. The only way to get more SP per hour is to move up a level range to get the higher SP per skillup 'proc' and higher 'proc' frequency. You see what I'm saying? It's a controlled system, we will never get more SP/hour than they planned as a maximum (besides exploits like the recent one). Although I don't love this kind of control on possible 'moving forward in an hour'.

It's an elegant, almost too invisible system. The more I play the game the more I'm noticing these kind of elegant 'controls' here and there. As far as controling player progress in a MMO, it's clever (in a sinister way).

But I do as mentioned above, think it's got an awesome payoff of being able to relax and know your exp is coming as long as you're hitting a mob.


This post brought to you by the colour green


Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 2:31am by RattyBatty
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#2 Oct 02 2010 at 10:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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I know exactly what you're talking about. When I party with my friends, we've tended to fight enemies that take a really long time to kill and get good skill ups off of them. I find it much more enjoyable than scrambling to kill as many as possible.
#3 Oct 02 2010 at 10:52 PM Rating: Good
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you seem to have forgotten about physical experience there.

People have been saying since beta that using low rank weapons for slower kills = high exp, but all of the testing that I have done from 1-20 have concluded the other decision. If you grind through light blue mobs in 3 hits, you are going to get low exp, but doing high damage against a yellow mob will give you the most exp.
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#4 Oct 02 2010 at 10:59 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
you seem to have forgotten about physical experience there.

People have been saying since beta that using low rank weapons for slower kills = high exp, but all of the testing that I have done from 1-20 have concluded the other decision. If you grind through light blue mobs in 3 hits, you are going to get low exp, but doing high damage against a yellow mob will give you the most exp.

Yes I did leave that out, because it's not the 'exp' anyone cares about for the most part. We want to skill up, LVLup will come on its own just by doing activities. But you're right it does nothing for Physical exp, is going after that.

You second statement is right, and in matching with this idea of "faster SP/hr comes only from moving up the 'hardness' ladder". Speed does nothing.

I for one am having a much better time in the game, knowing this now.


Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 1:01am by RattyBatty
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#5 Oct 02 2010 at 11:02 PM Rating: Good
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xGaelx wrote:
you seem to have forgotten about physical experience there.

People have been saying since beta that using low rank weapons for slower kills = high exp, but all of the testing that I have done from 1-20 have concluded the other decision. If you grind through light blue mobs in 3 hits, you are going to get low exp, but doing high damage against a yellow mob will give you the most exp.


well, exp comes from crafting, which is where i made most of my exp so far. experience points won't be something to worry about in this game, it's going to easily fill up on it's own with whatever your doing.

i am having trouble on my conjurer for getting SP for some reason though. it doesn't seem to matter what mob i hit, i don't seem to get alot of points. that and i haven't found mobs that are in between to easy, and that will eat my face.
#6 Oct 02 2010 at 11:03 PM Rating: Good
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partying is alot faster, but people say "the games made for soloing", but that dont mean you have to only solo! they give you the option vs fighting mobs that take 5 mins to kill, also funner and teaches you how to play in a party.

SE really need to copy and paste ffxi's party search menu, the one in ffxiv sucks ***, its useless.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 1:05am by mitmystria
#7 Oct 02 2010 at 11:13 PM Rating: Default
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mitmystria wrote:
partying is alot faster, but people say "the games made for soloing", but that dont mean you have to only solo! they give you the option vs fighting mobs that take 5 mins to kill, also funner and teaches you how to play in a party.

SE really need to copy and paste ffxi's party search menu, the one in ffxiv sucks ***, its useless.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 1:05am by mitmystria


at the moment the party system is crap. i can't even set a flag to look for a party. everything this game has, FFXI has it +1. parties are cool, i liked all the adventures and fun i had with random people. but it's not easy to get a party going. and as of yet on conjurer, i haven't gotten a single /tell for a party.
#8 Oct 02 2010 at 11:22 PM Rating: Good
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Thank you for posting this RattyBatty, it is definitely nice to know.

When playing during the beta, I came up with the idea that gaining exp/SP also depends on what kind of skills you're using. For example, if I run into three fights in a row and only use Heavy Thrust (I'm a Lancer, obviously) over and over, I'm not going to net as much as say Ferocity - Heavy Thrust - Light Thrust - Moonrise - Light Thrust, etc.
Could it be a coincidence that I noticed a trend like that, that just kind of falls into the system? Or is there a chance that they work hand-in-hand: You fight a long battle against a tough enemy, you're not going to use only one skill over and over, so the two systems work together to net you more SP?

Just a thought.
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#9 Oct 02 2010 at 11:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Alda Goats not looking so worthless afterall, now are they? :D
They don't hit back that hard and they'll take a very long beating before they go down.. IMO, probably one of the best things to kill for SP.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 1:40am by Sidicas
#10 Oct 02 2010 at 11:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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SE needs to fix the party skill point bug. I've read about it on the forums, I experienced it myself today.

I was in a lv 13-18'sh group killing some tough mobs (blue-green con to party, red con solo. ) I was seeing crazy skill ups per mob fought. 250-500 per battle... then a few mobs in something happened. At the end of the battle i got my EXP tally but no SP tally. Everyone else in the group did. Fought another mob... again no SP for me at the end of the fight. I started to keep track one battle after another I was missing 300,400,500 SP after each fight.. I lost ~3k SP due to the "bug".

If I tried to solo an easy mob while in group I got SP, Then we went to fight a toughie. No SP. Fought another easy got SP, fought a tough no SP.

I see skill up messages in the window I should be awarded 250-500 at the end (I was keeping track of each skill up) yet 7/10 times I would not receive any SP, While the pug and 2 Conj in the PT would.

Is this a bug? DOes each mob have a limit of SP output and it awards it to the people who did the most dmg/healing?

This has been happening since beta and needs to be fixed. I want to go fight monsters with my linkshell and get rewarded for the time put in.
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#11 Oct 02 2010 at 11:43 PM Rating: Default
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There does seem to be some bugs currently in how points are divided at the end of the kill. Ideally it would be collected up and split evenly bettwen members (with penalty for level differences). I think this is probably how it's meant to work, but I hear healers are getting a huge ammount of the SP right now so it might be a problem of a sharing system badly looking at 'contribution reward'.

It should be just an even split with level correction, that would be the bow on top of this system.
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#12 Oct 03 2010 at 6:03 AM Rating: Decent
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I see skill up messages in the window I should be awarded 250-500 at the end (I was keeping track of each skill up) yet 7/10 times I would not receive any SP, While the pug and 2 Conj in the PT would.


I've experienced and noticed the same problem SevenLittleChipmunks. And actually a lot of people have already pointed out this bug. Its a major bug that needs to be fixed ASAP. Because of this, I can't even party with my friends anymore as I don't want to waste time grinding with them and get no SP in return.


Quote:
There does seem to be some bugs currently in how points are divided at the end of the kill. Ideally it would be collected up and split evenly bettwen members (with penalty for level differences). I think this is probably how it's meant to work, but I hear healers are getting a huge ammount of the SP right now so it might be a problem of a sharing system badly looking at 'contribution reward'.


I believe the SP system does not work on the basis of dividing points. Only EXP works by scaling amount of EXP earned depending on the player's rank and the mob's level. SP is earned individually and solely depends on how many hits/spells are landed on the mob by each individual player. For example, if one person in the party landed 50 hits on the mob throughout the fight, he might've earned 200 SP for the fight, while somebody else who did not contribute to the fight at all would earn 0 SP but will still receive EXP.
#13 Oct 03 2010 at 8:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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If you're thinking about it in FFXI terms, we're not looking for exp parties. We're looking for *skill-up* parties.
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#14 Oct 03 2010 at 8:43 AM Rating: Good
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RattyBatty wrote:

This system is genius for SE. It means they know the maximum SP/hr you will get no matter how fast you kill. This system is immune to people squeezing out more SP/hr than they predicted.


Yeah, this has all been explained before. You call it genius that you don't get rewarded for killing quickly. I find it boring to level up like I would skill up in FFXI. How long until we do our xp grinding on crabs using the weakest weapon we have? Exciting....
#15 Oct 03 2010 at 8:47 AM Rating: Good
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So you finally realized how stupid this system is?

Yes! Instead of using my awesome new fire spell, I'll keep spamming 1 for more skill-ups! YES!
#16 Oct 03 2010 at 8:51 AM Rating: Decent
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TheLufia wrote:
So you finally realized how stupid this system is?


No, he just realized how it works. I'm sure the revelation of how stupid it is will come later.
#17 Oct 03 2010 at 8:58 AM Rating: Good
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I don't understand why people feel the need to spam normal attack, there's a cap for SP gain per kill. Have fun spamming 1 for 1000 times while other people can get 10 times your SP gain.
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#18 Oct 03 2010 at 9:03 AM Rating: Decent
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excellent info - nice to find out something you felt was right is in fact - right! :) now i'd like to know how Rank lvl effects drops... any thoughts or observations?
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#19 Oct 03 2010 at 9:07 AM Rating: Decent
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If there's an SP cap, I haven't seen it yet and I doubt very few people actually will on the average fight. I also don't understand your argument. Wouldn't it be better to spam 1 until you reach the cap instead of killing the enemy fast and not even reaching the cap?

This is all ignoring the fact that this games revolutionary combat system requires you to spam 1 a majority of the time anyways.
#20 Oct 03 2010 at 9:10 AM Rating: Good
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The cap is 500, at least for my level. The reason why spamming only 1 is bad, is that when you fight tough mob in a small party you reach 500 SP fairly quick while the mob still have like half the Hp left. You can have fun hitting 1 with 0 SP gain for the last half hp of the mob.
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#21 Oct 03 2010 at 9:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Then fight something easier? Why are you fighting something so difficult that you can reach SP cap before you've even half killed it? That would be equivalent to killing an IT monster in FFXI that drains all your caster's MP all for 200 XP at the end of battle when you could be fighting another IT monster that rewards the same amount of XP but requires half the effort.
#22 Oct 03 2010 at 9:21 AM Rating: Good
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And how do you know the duration of our fight? Why, our fight on a tough mob could be very much as long as your spam 1 on a weak mob. That's where skills come into play, you can finish these supposedly "strong" in a supposedly "slow" fight in an efficient manner.
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#23 Oct 03 2010 at 9:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Hopefully this gets changed soon, the risk vs return is virtually non existent right now. It's also pretty sad that it's almost better to equip a weaker weapon and use normal attacks on a mob, given how expensive and difficult it is to acquire new equipment.
#24 Oct 03 2010 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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FFS what are you arguing?

At first you argue that if you spam 1, you'll only half kill the enemy before you reach SP cap. So I suggest you kill something easier, AKA something that dies before you hit SP cap.

Rate of kill has to be added to rate of SP gain. You've stated there's an SP cap. So the ideal way to gain SP would be to use the correct combination of skills to gain the fastest SP gain and to find an enemy that dies right as you're hitting SP cap.

Lets pretend spamming 1 is the fastest way to gain SP. Making that assumption, the ideal enemy I should be fighting is an enemy that dies right as I hit 500 SP. So I find that enemy, spam 1, and right as I hit 500 SP, the enemy dies. That would be the fastest way to gain SP.

So unless you're arguing that spamming 1 is not the fastest way to gain SP, I don't see what you're arguing.
#25 Oct 03 2010 at 9:37 AM Rating: Good
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Just wait til you party and hit up hard mobs. They take ages to kill, you'd expect to be hitting 500 SP cap every fight cause they're orange.
Then the fight finishes one of the following things happens:
1) You get 0-200 SP
2) You get no SP (SP bug when you are in a PT.)
#26 Oct 03 2010 at 9:39 AM Rating: Decent
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The reason for spamming normal attacks is because SP gains are random and you don't get SP for every hit or skill that connects, therefore you spam 1 as opposed to special attacks so that you maximize SP gain before it dies. If you use a skill and it gives no SP, you've essentially wasted a good portion of the mob's HP. Also, it's very difficult for any rank 15-20 melee class to hit the SP cap, even on difficult mobs, the cap is in place because it's much easier to gain SP by healing a target who is actively being attacked. How this system came to favor weaker players is beyond me though, ever since I got a better weapon I've been gaining significantly less SP.
#27 Oct 03 2010 at 9:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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every action seems to have the same % chance to generate the same # points. therefore skillups are best when you get the most actions per hour, typically by hitting your lowest damage, lowest stamina move. Its an awful system.
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#28 Oct 03 2010 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:
every action seems to have the same % chance to generate the same # points. therefore skillups are best when you get the most actions per hour, typically by hitting your lowest damage, lowest stamina move. Its an awful system.


I actually do believe this false. I have noticed that my elemental spells on my conjurer can give over 100 SP, while my spirit dart often gives 20-40 SP. The problem is, as you stated, they have the same percent chance to proc a skill gain. So as Kharhaz stated, a spell will only have one chance to proc and, if it is unresisted, will take off a chunk of the enemy's HP, whereas a smaller attack would have given you multiple chances to proc a skill gain and not cost you such a large portion of the enemy's HP with each chance.

Has anyone experience a similar thing with TP moves? As a mage, I cannot spam spells even if I wanted to as I would run out of MP very fast. Do TP moves give higher SP gains?

Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 11:55am by TheLufia
#29 Oct 03 2010 at 9:58 AM Rating: Decent
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TP skills give a decent amount of SP, usually about 50% more than a normal attack for me, but I'd imagine it fluctuates between 25-75%ish. The problem is, they do about 3-5x more damage than a normal attack, and have the same low chance to generate SP on a successful hit.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 11:58am by KharhazDF
#30 Oct 03 2010 at 10:04 AM Rating: Decent
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This SP system is the main reason why playing a caster class in this game is strange. Playing a caster doesn't feel like you're playing a caster.
#31 Oct 03 2010 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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If it 'evens out'(which it doesn't, nor did you include any math showing that it does) then the best way WOULD be to kill more mobs. Especially in the early game, so that you can 'stockpile' some gil. More mobs means more shards and materials for yourself if you craft, or more stuff for you to NPC/Bazzar for money for a relic(lol). I think the majority of people would rather get 10-20 less SP a mob and get tens/hundreds of thousands more gil, then that SP.

These threads need to stop until someone can provide a decent sample size with all the variables covered - on multiple types of mobs. Until then, stop spouting conjecture as fact.
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#32 Oct 03 2010 at 2:31 PM Rating: Good
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RattyBatty wrote:
The implication to parties is exciting. It means the idea of a party would be "Go hit tough things together" and would have absolutely no pressures to "Kill faster, shut up and kill faster!!!". You could be wailing on a crab for 15 minutes, you're getting 5000SP when it finally dies.

...

This system is genius for SE. It means they know the maximum SP/hr you will get no matter how fast you kill. This system is immune to people squeezing out more SP/hr than they predicted. They know the average SP gain per hour of every level range of mobs.


If this ends up being absolutely true in the end (barring any adjustments within 1-2 years), then the the faster speed of killing monsters will still end up being superior. While the EXP chance would be close enough as to not matter with such a model, you've still got the other side bonuses to consider while in a group -- loot, safety factor, and enjoyment/limiting becoming bored. And speed killing trumps slow killing on all factors there.
#33 Oct 03 2010 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent
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It's just nice to have the choice between sh*tting bricks "kill kill killlll!!!!!!! NOWWWWWW" and "Hey let's have fun and beat things up".

I know there's a lot of testing to be done on this, such as finding out the SP cap per level tier. And also when parsers come out we'll be able to see some real proof of whether things even out over time either way.

What I would expect to see is that if there is an SP cap, the key will be killing before that is hit. If you can do that, you should be getting SP just as fast as people that kill a mob per 30 seconds.

What I wanted to do with this thread is just showcase the way SP doesn't work like the exp we're used to. It has nothing to do with killing 10 mobs as fast as you can, that affects nothing. I think this will help a lot of people enjoy themselves more.

And of course I disagree with a system that controls maximum SP/hr so much, but MMO's always are built with such caps. At least in this case it's a system that allows you to be more laid back, knowing that rushing won't change much if anything. I called it genius "for SE", because it suits their aim of complete control on player maximum progression (barring exploits). Unlike a exp-per-kill system which is only limited by spawn supply.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 8:12pm by RattyBatty
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#34 Oct 03 2010 at 4:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't understand why SE would encourage sh*tty players to be sh*ttier. FFXI did a very good job. The better you were, the faster you could kill and chain mobs, and the more exp you got. Very simple. Better players get better exp. Why SE decided to turn into carebears and reward bad players just as equally, I don't understand. Where's the value in improving? You might as well just stack up all VIT and some DEX as a melee to kill a single mob as slowly as possible with as many attacks as possible to get the most SP you can. It's a safer and more reliable way to kill mobs, and the fact that you're insanely weak and it takes forever means nothing. That's rampantly stupid.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 5:36pm by bsphil
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#35 Oct 03 2010 at 4:39 PM Rating: Good
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RattyBatty wrote:

What I wanted to do with this thread is just showcase the way SP doesn't work like the exp we're used to. It has nothing to do with killing 10 mobs as fast as you can, that affects nothing. I think this will help a lot of people enjoy themselves more.


No offense and I know you believe you are helping everyone with this information, but you may have been the last person to realize how xp works in this game.
#36 Oct 03 2010 at 4:44 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:

No offense and I know you believe you are helping everyone with this information, but you may have been the last person to realize how xp works in this game.

While people may understand that SP comes from hitting things, I don't believe that 'most people' have 'clicked' on what it means for the exping mentality. Because all I keep seeing is people trying to find camps with a massive amount of mobs, and trying to wipe them out as fast as possible. This is the mentality that comes from most other RPG games, they're not realizing it doesn't apply in this system.

I also see a lot of possible camps not being used because there aren't enough mobs there to speed-grind. Once you realize you don't need that, maybe a lot of awesome camps will be discovered.

I welcome the people questioning this thread, I hope they'll help prove or disprove it in practice (although the current party bug will make it difficult for now, i think.)


Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 8:10pm by RattyBatty
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#37 Oct 03 2010 at 5:03 PM Rating: Good
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sylph19 wrote:
Just wait til you party and hit up hard mobs. They take ages to kill, you'd expect to be hitting 500 SP cap every fight cause they're orange.
Then the fight finishes one of the following things happens:
1) You get 0-200 SP
2) You get no SP (SP bug when you are in a PT.)


1. Yellow/Orange mobs don't take age to kill. 20-40 seconds is the most. Gears are important, very important. Pick the good choice of mob type is important as well, there are mobs with weakness to certain damage element. Stop using that Harpoon at r20, ok?
2. SMALL party, 2-3 people. 2-3 people party seem less likely to get SP bug and works rather well in SP maximization per kill.
3. Like TheLufia said, and I do agree with him on this point: skill do give a big chunk of SP if it does indeed give SP. I can get 180 SP per skill on Thickshell, while normal attack get 40ish. Very very big difference here.

I'm asking you, what mobs are you killing at r15-20? How fast do you kill it? How many SP average do you get per kill? How many SP do you get per normal attack?

Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 7:04pm by Khornette
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#38 Oct 03 2010 at 5:09 PM Rating: Good
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There actually are people in the game that haven't realized how the XP system works (though I seriously question their intelligence). I've had people that want to go back to grinding Aldgoat from Crabs because we kill goat faster, but I point out to them that it's pointless how fast we kill unless you care about physical XP. TBH, if I wanted phys XP, I'd just go craft. It's tons faster that way. My inventory gets filled up quickly while grinding, so I don't much care about drops. It's not like most of the crap wont become vendor fodder anyways thanks to the 10 bazaar limit and difficulty of actually selling anything.

As long as your healer isn't wasting tons of MP keeping the tank alive on hard enemies and you're not hitting this supposed XP cap before the enemy is dead, longer fights are typically better for skill, simply because you spend less time moving to the next enemy. Granted, that's not such a huge factor, just as long as you're not wiping out a camp of enemies and are having to sit there and wait for repops.

I still want to know if there's any correlation between rate and/or amount of skill up and difficulty of the enemy.
#39 Oct 03 2010 at 6:05 PM Rating: Good
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Its best maximize hits/actions per hour, yes. But doing that by rotating spawns is still better than hitting the same thing forever due to loot and physical XP.
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#40 Oct 03 2010 at 6:19 PM Rating: Good
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ThePacster wrote:
When I party with my friends, we've tended to fight enemies that take a really long time to kill and get good skill ups off of them. I find it much more enjoyable than scrambling to kill as many as possible.


This may be the first thing about FFXIV that sounds very attractive to me; I like longer fights. If this turns out to be true, I'll be quite pleased.
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#41 Oct 03 2010 at 6:21 PM Rating: Good
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TheLufia wrote:

I still want to know if there's any correlation between rate and/or amount of skill up and difficulty of the enemy.


There had better be! Seriously.
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#42 Oct 03 2010 at 8:20 PM Rating: Good
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Was grinding with some of my LS members yesterday night and this was what happen
we were a small party of 3 person 1 PUG, 1 Lancer, 1 conjurer(me)
we were at our rank 11 ~ 13 with physical 17 ~ 20.
The Pug was the main tank and sub DD, lancer as main DD.
we were hitting goat around skull valley (blue to yellow)and every fights took us about 4 ~ 7 mins
i was doing cure and sacrifice whenever the the pug took a hit and shock spike when the previous one ends.Every battle ends up with me taking 100 ~ 500 rank point
(depending on how active i was in healing and in most cases rank exp of 300 and above)
the pug and lancer was dishing out Dmg of 10 ~ 60 and was getting the same rank point.

after the party disband, i was solo-ing on anything that is blue to me. (each battle last about a minute)and this is what happens
1) if i spirit dart the mob to death, i got a constant 20 plus rank point with every 3 ~ 4 hit i do (add up to 100 plus after battle ends)
2) if i do spells that cause dmg..i still gets 100 plus rank point after battle ends
3) same goes for doing a combination of spirit dart and spells.

of course having say this, there will be some battle that i will get zero rank point due to SE wonderful random-ness in this game. (same as FF 11)

i did try mob that are green and yellow, the rank exp is more..but considering that my down time and death rate is too high,i decided not to punk around them.

In conclusion, there is no right or wrong way to grind in 14. where else in 11, you would be doing Skill chain and magic burst in order to get as much chain as possible.

But for those who had played and love 11... Dont you find the similarity of skill up in 11 and 14? i mean, for skill up , i rather be doing enpi without SC then be doing yuki kaze + gekko = distortion.

But considering the number of mob vs player is insanely ******, it might be much better for players to consider lenghty battle..

Of course, this post is in a perspective of a conjurer, anyone want to share their exp as other discipline of war and magic?

on a side note:

it is not a system to reward players who are ******. Because, if i was not doing cure, sacrifice and shock spike, i will not be hitting 300 ~ 500 rank point that often. if i hang around doing nothing or ****** stuff, basically i will get 0 to ****** rank point.
right?


#43 Oct 04 2010 at 1:05 AM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
This may be the first thing about FFXIV that sounds very attractive to me; I like longer fights. If this turns out to be true, I'll be quite pleased.


Leveling akin to 2004 style EXPing in FFXI? I realize that some people like that, but personally if I'm going to be grinding mobs I really don't want them to be long and drawn out simply because it can be. To me, longer fights end up becoming bogged down because you have more time to let your mind wander, and the grind ends up being even more boring. At least with a lot of faster kills, it gives the allusion of you being more powerful and ends up being more engaging.
#44 Oct 04 2010 at 1:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Yep, Keith, that's the idea. People who just follow and don't really help out get no rank points, because rank points are based upon ACTIONS TAKEN. If you don't contribute enough, you get exp, but no SP.
#45 Oct 04 2010 at 1:42 AM Rating: Good
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Khornette wrote:
sylph19 wrote:
Just wait til you party and hit up hard mobs. They take ages to kill, you'd expect to be hitting 500 SP cap every fight cause they're orange.
Then the fight finishes one of the following things happens:
1) You get 0-200 SP
2) You get no SP (SP bug when you are in a PT.)


1. Yellow/Orange mobs don't take age to kill. 20-40 seconds is the most. Gears are important, very important. Pick the good choice of mob type is important as well, there are mobs with weakness to certain damage element. Stop using that Harpoon at r20, ok?
2. SMALL party, 2-3 people. 2-3 people party seem less likely to get SP bug and works rather well in SP maximization per kill.
3. Like TheLufia said, and I do agree with him on this point: skill do give a big chunk of SP if it does indeed give SP. I can get 180 SP per skill on Thickshell, while normal attack get 40ish. Very very big difference here.

I'm asking you, what mobs are you killing at r15-20? How fast do you kill it? How many SP average do you get per kill? How many SP do you get per normal attack?

Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 7:04pm by Khornette


Good assumptions bruz, brass spear 'ere. We're a trio killing Cellar Puks at Nanawa Mines. Ranging somewhere around 100-250 SP for me, a lot less for tank since they don't get to attack as often. 30-50 SP per proc, around a minute per fight.
It really sucked for our tank since they have to do stuff to avoid TP attacks, so their not always hitting the mob.

We're getting crap exp everywhere now. It's stupid cause we can handle red/oranges they just don't give much exp. We can smash through green/blue/yellows and they give crap exp also. So, I dunno... We're just getting bad exp.
Like 5 levels ago we started partying, 500 SP each kill all the time on green/yellows, someone levelled up and exp started sucking and has sucked ever since, no matter where we go.

Doing the math:
100-250 per fight. 175 average. Around about a minute a fight. 3 fights per 5 minutes non stop (best possible outcome). x0.66 (PT exp bug). 4k SP per hour.
That sucks.



I should add: We are MORE than welcome for any suggestions to improve this rate. It's such a downer, I think our trio is flowing real well aswell, we have no downtime, we're doing decent damage, we're exploring places to find new exp spots but to get crap exp as a reward for trying to make PT work is becoming a real drag.

Edited, Oct 4th 2010 3:59am by sylph19
#46 Oct 04 2010 at 1:47 AM Rating: Default
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Your theory is wrong. Solo you get 0-30ish sp a mob in the 20s, no matter how tough they are, sometimes you get lucky. I assure you, it's nowhere close to 10k/hour.

Gain in parties is much higher.
#47 Oct 04 2010 at 2:21 AM Rating: Good
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Solo SP did seem to (for me, at least) drastically drop rank 20+. Duo and Trio teams (SP glitch aside... ugh) seem to be way faster for SP gains.

All that being said. If I were to solo, and I were to choose one of the methods above... One gives 3x the amount of loot and crystals than the other. And that's really important to me.
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#48 Oct 08 2010 at 1:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah skills give more SP than normal attacks. Specially skills that are hard to use, such as Haymaker and Phalanx, great way to lv up.

Since you use less skills than attacks per fight I think the chance that you can get a skill up with a weaponskill is much higher than the chance you have from hitting the mob with a normal attack. And finishing of a monster with a skill might reward you with 100+ points instead of 40 with the regular attack. Plus, like someone else stated, you get more crystals, more loot.

It also doesn't help to fight mobs that are too strong, because you either miss too much or you get little skill ups as you hit them for 10-20 damage. And your weapon breaks really fast too. In either case, taking too long to fight or killing it too fast means you're not fighting the right monster.
#49 Oct 08 2010 at 2:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
If there's an SP cap, I haven't seen it yet and I doubt very few people actually will on the average fight


back to this.

so i started all over again, lvl 1 everything but i had my 22 gear from the first charater so i was very strong to the begining areas. I was soloing reds from the start and i would always get 500SP, no more ever. this happened multiple times, as a lvl 3 or something taking down an non-leve quest red mob.

About the whole theory, idk. i killed 4 mobs, back to back to back at 3 or 4 (CON) and all gave me 500 SP; it was a very short time to gain 2000 SP, < 15 min. if there is a cap, its not reasonable.
#50 Oct 08 2010 at 2:10 PM Rating: Good
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Keysofgaruda wrote:
well, exp comes from crafting


So true. Completing 8 local leves is about equal to an entire Physical level, until about 17~20 when is still the better part of a Level.
#51 Oct 08 2010 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
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500 SP is the cap per fight for offensive movers, as far as I'm aware. I'm unsure if there is a cap for healing/buffing. My LS formed a party of around 10 players all 15-23 Rank, and we went to the Mun-Tuy Cellars to kill level 40+ monsters. Pretty much all of the melee were reporting 500 SP capped results after each fight (Of course then half wouldn't get their SP due to the glitch. hehe :P)

SP/Hour, if that's what you're referring to, no I don't think there's really a cap for that. Of course, do too good, and you'll hit fatigue after only 8 hours of playing that week, and fatigue will get down to a point where it's tough to continue a few hours after that.

But hey, at least that'd free up the rest of the week for you to work on something else. :D

I'm one of the few out there that actually like the fatigue system... at least right now. I think in 6 months, when we're all high enough, have a decent amount of gil and such, we'll probably start hating the fatigue system, when we want to power through a craft that we neglected to raise from day one, due to not thinking about it. And instead of just spending all of your free time on that craft, you'll only be able to spend 2 days a week on it. We'll see, though.
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