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I really want to like this game....Follow

#1 Oct 03 2010 at 10:49 AM Rating: Good
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First off... I am not ranting, well trying not to anyway. I have been into MMO since UO. While this is far from the most difficult MMO I have seen this one is WAY behind what I have come to expect from a new game.

There is nearly NO new player help, and with a community that is silent at all hours I have been on this does not help at all. I have seen no means to add a chat tab which boggles the mind. Since my first attempt to find help was to join a help channel in a new tab to chat and ask questions. To my surprise there seems to be no method to add a tab and I can only assume there are no chat channels for something of this nature. I have no idea why it was done the way it is but this is something that should be put in and automatically add new players to this channel.

So my first source for help was non-existent I of course move on the my next source, official forums. Which there are none of... VSOH tried this and failed in part due to it (I said "in part"). With no means to find a centralized source of knowledge that leaves me to Google, which I found this forum of course. Problem with relying on fan sites is that the knowledge that I would seek is spread across the web and not in one easy to find place. Most players do not bother with official forums and fewer yet will put forth the effort to seek fan sites out.

I really want to like this game, from what I can tell I think I would like it, seems to have a very open play style, not quite a sandbox but parts of each, no clue what end game will be like but I see no PVP and not sure how well it would work anyway. for the moment I am putting forth loads of effort to figure out what to do, I ask in /shout loads of times get no answer on stuff and just do trial and error since I am tried of looking for the answer via the web. I am broke, have no idea why leves I did yesterday are still in my journal but greyed out. Wasted money on carpenter tools and did not have enough money to get the botany off had tool. I have figured out the macro system (no thanks to ingame mechanics) and once I discovered that the servers are laggin badly figured out why my combat seemed so sluggish. So until the servers are fixed I will stick around at least until I am sick and tired of banging my head in the wall trying to figure things out alone.

So if you are on Bodhum and clueless feel free to hit me up and maybe we can figure it out together, also I have a vent if anyone cares to chat there while wandering around killing things and chopping trees... at least until I have enough to get my scythe, then we can harvest the weeds as well perhaps.

Dazed, lost, and confused as **** in Bodhum
AKA Igax Snow
#2 Oct 03 2010 at 10:55 AM Rating: Default
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delete your char and take your friend if you have to the 2 chocobo forum if you dislike lag that bad. With the new mmo lag is a know issue and even common issue that ppl dont bother to address it.

Problem with the chat channel,retrainer system, ward all i can say about those thing is SE forgot to done the basic while they busy with make the game fancy with advanced thing and stuff.

and the most of stuff you said, already post here on zam forum often, just search and you ll found answer


edit: 1 thing i forgot, FF serie is a PVE/RP serie, it have never be a PVP

Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 12:57pm by Shneibel
#3 Oct 03 2010 at 11:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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The lag I will give them as I said, its new and should get worked out soon (hopefully). I can not understand why a new MMO comes out with a **** poor tutorial system. There is no excuse for it. I should not spend 70% of me game time trying to figure out how to do a thing. I have even gone as far as forgiving the interface being VERY console friendly. I do rather hate not being able to assign buttons to open things like my inventory and journal.
#4 Oct 03 2010 at 11:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Oh and my biggest complaint yet has been the very cold feeling from the in game community by and far, no one talks, no one helps= no one cares. The life blood of an MMO is new players, without them they fail.
#5 Oct 03 2010 at 11:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Igax wrote:
Oh and my biggest complaint yet has been the very cold feeling from the in game community by and far, no one talks, no one helps= no one cares. The life blood of an MMO is new players, without them they fail.


Which is sadly ironic as XIV is supposed to be a game that empowers the players and needs them to work together.
#6 Oct 03 2010 at 11:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah I was very surprised at howe ignorant and anti-social the community turned out to be. FFXI was a bit better in that aspect. But SE made a game where the community is heavily reliant on each other, yet gave us horrible tools to communicate.

I dont think I can play a game where I need to alt tab every 5 minutes to find out the most basic things from the internet. FFXI was like that. Need to do a class quest? Good luck doing it without referring to a fan site lmao.

I'm not surprised about the lack of tutorials in a Square Enix mmo. However Final Fantasy 13 was stuffed FULL of tutorials. But seriously, this day and age there needs to be tutorials for everything. Especially if you dont have an instructional booklet as thick as the Lord of the Rings Trilogy. FF games always have a steep learning curve so I dont understand the mentality behind not having any instructions lol.

Right now FFXIV feels like it's made to be difficult for the wrong reasons. Most of the reasons being people not understanding how things work. OR not understanding why or how something functions the way it does.
#7 Oct 03 2010 at 11:42 AM Rating: Default
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it just a S&M addict act of SE, nothing serious imo

/sarcasm off
#8 Oct 03 2010 at 11:53 AM Rating: Good
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Yes! And what a fine idea to make all crafters super-interdependent without implementing a way for them to find the raw and intermediate materials they need! It's really half of the fun to spend 1 1/2 hours every day looking through each bazaar just to find out that what you are really looking for wasn't sold after all.

/sarcasmoff
#9 Oct 03 2010 at 12:13 PM Rating: Decent
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To add i finally had someone in game stop and take time to help me figure out something. While I thought I had the Macro system worked out turns out that /equip off "item name" would not equip a Bonze Scythe to my off hand, the correct line was /equip sub "Bronze Scythe".... I did not notice ANY where that the off hand was called sub. No biggie really but if that is how it works then SE needs to make note of it, if not in game or the instruction book, on their website a minium (which is also a VERY poor source for basic in game information.


Honestly, what I have learned and figured out I enjoy completely (except the player market... we hated that system in EQ why the **** was it brought back?) Please make the learning curb lower, as is you will chase the casual player (your cash cow) away.
#10 Oct 03 2010 at 12:21 PM Rating: Good
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gotta add as it had been mention, this game is a rotter community, i go from blackshroud to camp Drybone, ask if any can tell me how to go to uldah, ppl dont give a ****. Not to mention when ask where to get puglist wep in Gridania, none say a word



Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 2:34pm by Shneibel
#11 Oct 03 2010 at 12:44 PM Rating: Good
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yeah I was really hoping it was just me... maybe the community will change as time goes by... maybe
#12 Oct 03 2010 at 12:51 PM Rating: Decent
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atm ppl dont talk, after the chat system fix, i dont think they ll bother since it already become ghost community like this
#13 Oct 03 2010 at 12:58 PM Rating: Good
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the "FF" MMO community has never been 'nice' outside of various cliques; in fact, all MMO communities are mainly 'clique-centric'.

you either get into some clique and associate mostly with those people, or you figure out how to do things yourself.

I've never been big on cliques, so I stick to readily accessible public information. If it's not available, I ask no one in-game.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 3:00pm by ghosthacked
#14 Oct 03 2010 at 12:59 PM Rating: Good
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Shneibel wrote:

Problem with the chat channel,retrainer system, ward all i can say about those thing is SE forgot to done the basic while they busy with make the game fancy with advanced thing and stuff.


FTFY: SE forgot about the basics while working on the the awesome graphics.

I tend to breeze past posts that are defaulted, but... this sort of stood out and imo, nailed it.
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#15 Oct 03 2010 at 1:07 PM Rating: Decent
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I kind of see what you mean... except the PVP thing tho. FFXI wasn't known for it's PVP, and no matter how the devs are saying thy have PVP in mind for FFXIV, I don't believe it will ever be FFXIV's cup of tea either.

FFXIV leaves a lot of learning curve to ud, the players. My first few days in open beta was nothing but frustrating. I spent like 3 days at least trying things out before I even grasp the basic.

Once you're there tho, there are things I really like. For now, I say it's the crafting. Find yourself a linkshell and start crafting/gathering. I enjoyed alchemy a lot I haven't fought a single mobs for 3 days straight already.
#16 Oct 03 2010 at 1:17 PM Rating: Good
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hard to find linkshell (which I am guessing something akin to player guilds) when no one chats. As far as others being like this, not true, UO,AC,AC2 EVE, AOC, SWG, STO, EQ2... I could go on, all had players talking and grouping (most of them, eve at the start was not so group friendly) with one another out the gate, FFXIV seems to like solo play and less talk, which is sad :(

I have been trying to harvest, swinging an axe and a scythe and asking in game why triangulate and arbor call seem to do nothing... no answer at all. So once again I have to dig around forums and google to find an answer, lame.
#17 Oct 03 2010 at 1:25 PM Rating: Decent
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linkshell is not hard to find at all, just pm em, and they ll answer, it is more easy than find a person and ask for information
#18 Oct 03 2010 at 1:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I can not understand why a new MMO comes out with a **** poor tutorial system. There is no excuse for it. I should not spend 70% of me game time trying to figure out how to do a thing.


I believe it only took Square-enix about 6 to 7 years to come up with a tutorial for new people in FFXI,so I'm sure they'll get to it ...eventually. I also recall them saying they would like the Fan sites to do their job of getting information to the playerbase. Would be interesting to learn how much time and resources they put into the fansite tools they released, instead of implementing things that would improve gameplay/ make things easier.
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#19 Oct 03 2010 at 1:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Igax wrote:
hard to find linkshell (which I am guessing something akin to player guilds) when no one chats. As far as others being like this, not true, UO,AC,AC2 EVE, AOC, SWG, STO, EQ2... I could go on, all had players talking and grouping (most of them, eve at the start was not so group friendly) with one another out the gate, FFXIV seems to like solo play and less talk, which is sad :(

I have been trying to harvest, swinging an axe and a scythe and asking in game why triangulate and arbor call seem to do nothing... no answer at all. So once again I have to dig around forums and google to find an answer, lame.


It's hard to talk. it's just hard.....

if you're fighting, you have to keep pressing action buttons.
If you're crafting/gathering, your chat bar will be closed and you lost all you've typed when the game ask for your input....

You can pretty much talk only when you're doing nothing... seriously.

There's not even an easy way I can see what people /say.
#20 Oct 03 2010 at 1:54 PM Rating: Default
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Not defending FF XIV by any means but the lack of tutorials and hand-holding worked pretty well in FF XI. Part of the fun was discovering things for yourself. I remember how my LS was working on a strategy to win Mandragora BCNM: we tried failed, analyzed results and tried again, it took couple of weeks and a dozen of attempts to come up with a winning strategy and was much more satisfying than reading a step by step guide or even responding to in-game cues.

It is not for everybody but this is not a flaw in the game.
#21 Oct 03 2010 at 1:54 PM Rating: Good
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Jazalas wrote:

It's hard to talk. it's just hard.....

if you're fighting, you have to keep pressing action buttons.
If you're crafting/gathering, your chat bar will be closed and you lost all you've typed when the game ask for your input....

You can pretty much talk only when you're doing nothing...


This thought exactly -- SE really screwed up with the chat system; why isn't it just like FFXI, where you can view chat in tabs, where the font is smooth, large and readable, and where you type at any time at all?

I was greatly disappointed by FFXIV's communication system.
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#22 Oct 03 2010 at 2:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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How on earth can SE go from having a working, usable and tested chat system, to ignoring it, ignoring what they know and implementing something that doesn't work well, isn't really usable.

"Hmmm so we know Rum and Coke work well. Right, check. This time lets use Rum and Water "

Rhetorical question, just felt like giving it form.
#23 Oct 03 2010 at 2:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's horrifically cliched and overused, but it's still entirely accurate:

SE saw all their competitors using round wheels, so they decided to "innovate" by trying square wheels.
#24 Oct 03 2010 at 2:40 PM Rating: Good
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i think i kinda agree after a week i am trying to force myself to like it it dont feel like FF
#25 Oct 03 2010 at 2:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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HachiLihachi wrote:
Not defending FF XIV by any means but the lack of tutorials and hand-holding worked pretty well in FF XI. Part of the fun was discovering things for yourself. I remember how my LS was working on a strategy to win Mandragora BCNM: we tried failed, analyzed results and tried again, it took couple of weeks and a dozen of attempts to come up with a winning strategy and was much more satisfying than reading a step by step guide or even responding to in-game cues.

It is not for everybody but this is not a flaw in the game.


That is fine I do need a game to tell me how to beat a mob, however having to figure out basic game mechanics is silly. No where does the game let you know that what you hold in hand determines what skill sets are avail. That you can pretty much be whatever regardless of choices made up front. No pop ups or tips as to what putting x points in y attribute will get you.. NOTHING not even a vague description. So I as player am left guessing they followed the same basic system as every other RPG, str=fighter, Int=Mage, Dex=rouge. Some things should not be left to guesswork and head scratching.
#26 Oct 03 2010 at 2:45 PM Rating: Decent
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RajiFarlander wrote:
It's horrifically cliched and overused, but it's still entirely accurate:

SE saw all their competitors using round wheels, so they decided to "innovate" by trying square wheels.


Well put.
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#27 Oct 03 2010 at 4:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Igax wrote:

That is fine I do need a game to tell me how to beat a mob, however having to figure out basic game mechanics is silly. No where does the game let you know that what you hold in hand determines what skill sets are avail. That you can pretty much be whatever regardless of choices made up front. No pop ups or tips as to what putting x points in y attribute will get you.. NOTHING not even a vague description. So I as player am left guessing they followed the same basic system as every other RPG, str=fighter, Int=Mage, Dex=rouge. Some things should not be left to guesswork and head scratching.

In FF XI these mechanics were not basic by far, it took several years to figure out for players. They give you basic description of stats at every crystal however the whole question of "putting x points into y attribute will give you" is too complex to answer in FF XI and, I suppose, same is true in FF XIV - for example MND in FF XI affected effectiveness of enhancing spells and magic defense but also it affected several abilities. So at some level ranges RNG (a ranged attacker) and MNK (a front line attacker) found that boosting MND was most beneficial for them. In fact most of the skills in FF XI involved equipment switch to boost certain stats and the consensus on what stats to boost has been changing over time. As I said the hidden and complex game mechanics make a whole layer of the gameplay unseen in WoW clones.
FF XIV is not a good game by any means but I would not fault it for not copying the WoW gameplay. FF XI was an awesome game and was not like a WoW at all.
#28 Oct 03 2010 at 4:33 PM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
Jazalas wrote:

It's hard to talk. it's just hard.....

if you're fighting, you have to keep pressing action buttons.
If you're crafting/gathering, your chat bar will be closed and you lost all you've typed when the game ask for your input....

You can pretty much talk only when you're doing nothing...


This thought exactly -- SE really screwed up with the chat system; why isn't it just like FFXI, where you can view chat in tabs, where the font is smooth, large and readable, and where you type at any time at all?

I was greatly disappointed by FFXIV's communication system.



Yes, it's incredibly frustrating to see someone asking for help and knowing the answer... but I can't chat because I'm in a 5-minute crafting sequence and can't talk till the synth is over. By that time the person got frustrated because no one responded and has walked off.

Talking in FFXIV is hard work.
#29 Oct 04 2010 at 4:22 AM Rating: Default
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I Would have been happy with a game similar to FFXI but with better graphics and minor tweaks. I feel so confused/frusterated. I sit there and mash on my action bar..I used to love auto attacking and then hitting weaponskill now all I do is press 1, 1,1,2,1,1,1 the entire ******* time and it feels retarded now that you have no basic auto attack just like very other game out there. Overall not very impressed so far :/ Maybe im just missing the point?
#30 Oct 04 2010 at 4:45 AM Rating: Decent
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i guess at this point of time where the game is release barley a month, most people are also like you still trying to figure things out.. FF 11 community was great until gill seller come along and ruin everything.

The chat menu are one main reason why i dont talk as much as i do in 11.

Have you read the manual yet? if you have, you properly found out about the official 14 website call the lodestone...
i got all my information there.everything is there for new to season players .... very detail very friendly..well... the only thing that is cumbersome is you have to alt tab out of the screen though..
#31 Oct 04 2010 at 4:46 AM Rating: Decent
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No you're not really missing the point. Okay, for me it's not only mashing 1 and 2, it's more like 1, 1, 6, 1, 1, 4, 1, 1 and then maybe 8 which is Second Wind, and so on...but yea. To be honest, by now I wish it would be more like an improved FFXI. Auto attack doesn't have anything to do with easy mode, it gives you room and time to do things in between such as typing text, which is as many people pointed out poorly implemented. I hated the chat window from day one I entered open beta. Won't even begin ranting about the menus, countless other people have done that with no end.

I also ran into the problem that somebody asked for help or even sent me a /tell about crafting something for them, while I was in the middle of crafting. No chance to reply, especially because you have to type the whole name of the person talking to you, for the first time you do it at least, which is completely beyond me. Sometimes I really wonder if SE ever played their own game. Or maybe they play with god mode enabled, making it possible to use all nifty features every MMO in this time and age should have by default. It has been said so many times...but really, you don't have to reinvent the wheel every time only to be different. How is it any good to drive a car with cubic wheels? Sure it's different, but not sure if that works out...

So now me's sitting here, wondering. I haven't been in the game for five days now me thinks, and I just can't get myself back in until some things are fixed. Mainly the retainer crap. Guess me's just as guilty as the rest. I didn't like FFXIII at all, should have known better. I'm still absolutely willed to give this game a chance (also because there's nothing else interesting coming up for me anytime soon other than Tera). Me's not too patient though, and I don't see why I should be!? Either a product works at its core, or it doesn't.

I'm not really somebody who rants in some forum, but ugh! Right now I feel really disappointed in SE and I keep asking myself how much of this nonsense is still fixable!? Maybe they don't even want to, but in all honesty...that would be the game's certain death (as in, it wouldn't be able to be more successful than FFXI was).

Get yer **** up, SE, and make things right! In this business there's no room for overly stubborn and selfish decisions. We're the ones paying ya, not the other way around. People can be forced to enjoy garbage for only so long before they pack up and go where the grass is much much greener (and yummier too).
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#32 Oct 04 2010 at 4:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Lag? Boost your PC.

I have watched video reviews and the areas I lag, on the video it dont.

I have purchased a new Graphics card ( might as well ) to see if this solves the problem. If it does good, then I can up my hard drive at some point as well.

And yes as some one else said there is about 10 threads a day being made to rant.

I do agree on the "Help" front there is zero to none but you have to remember this is early days! most linkshells are not even bothering to recruit because they are learning things as well. And FFXIV is not as Party based as FFXI because they tried to mix WoW/FFXI and they have in my opinion done it well. And NO im not a blind FF Fan boy either, I know the flaws of this game and making a new post daily about the same problems isnt going to change it.

Come back in 6 months time if your unhappy.

Edited, Oct 4th 2010 6:48am by Lonix
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#33 Oct 04 2010 at 4:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Lonix wrote:
Lag? Boost your PC.

I have watched video reviews and the areas I lag, on the video it dont.

I have purchased a new Graphics card ( might as well ) to see if this solves the problem. If it does good, then I can up my hard drive at some point as well.

And yes as some one else said there is about 10 threads a day being made to rant.

I do agree on the "Help" front there is zero to none but you have to remember this is early days! most linkshells are not even bothering to recruit because they are learning things as well. And FFXIV is not as Party based as FFXI because they tried to mix WoW/FFXI and they have in my opinion done it well. And NO im not a blind FF Fan boy either, I know the flaws of this game and making a new post daily about the same problems isnt going to change it.

Come back in 6 months time if your unhappy.

Edited, Oct 4th 2010 6:48am by Lonix


At this rate, the game will be practically dead in 6 months, on life support.
#34 Oct 04 2010 at 5:07 AM Rating: Decent
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I can tell the difference between system lag and server side lag. I have also gotten the server IP and seen what the latency and ping times are when I am waiting 2-3 seconds for my character to do what I told it to. I suspect the lag issue most see is hardware related server side. Like most company's I am sure they tried to get by as cheap as possible (developers normally have little say in hardware and money issues) and the player base suffers until someone says ok lets get better stuff. System Lag on my end would freeze everything, what I am seeing and suspect what most are seeing, is a huge delay between doing a thing and the thing being done.

It is sad really, the game looks promising if only some basic MMO systems were in place. AoC a player could pick up and dive in, learning curve very low. I did wonder to myself if I was hating the no voice over, but naa I play several RPGs that have little voice over. I did find it odd that the main quest line cut scenes were not VOed though. At any rate perhaps in a few months the game will improve. If I am not in something else maybe I will give it another try. For now however the minor annoyances have added up to a huge lack of fun for me. Enjoy and Good luck all.

Igax
#35 Oct 04 2010 at 5:08 AM Rating: Decent
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WillCider wrote:
Lonix wrote:
Lag? Boost your PC.

I have watched video reviews and the areas I lag, on the video it dont.

I have purchased a new Graphics card ( might as well ) to see if this solves the problem. If it does good, then I can up my hard drive at some point as well.

And yes as some one else said there is about 10 threads a day being made to rant.

I do agree on the "Help" front there is zero to none but you have to remember this is early days! most linkshells are not even bothering to recruit because they are learning things as well. And FFXIV is not as Party based as FFXI because they tried to mix WoW/FFXI and they have in my opinion done it well. And NO im not a blind FF Fan boy either, I know the flaws of this game and making a new post daily about the same problems isnt going to change it.

Come back in 6 months time if your unhappy.

Edited, Oct 4th 2010 6:48am by Lonix


At this rate, the game will be practically dead in 6 months, on life support.


much like STO?
#36 Oct 04 2010 at 10:14 AM Rating: Good
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The problem is their mechanics have the ability to be good, yet they choose little things to counteract and drag down the good mechanics.

For example very very intense crafting system that requires lots of mats from many different crafters. However no easy way to search for one item. I mean really do I HAVE to click 1000 laggy retainers to find some Bronze Plates? The game is PvE yet there is no easy way to talk to people other then joining linkshells. They want you to be social but everyone is in there own little niche linkshell. PvE games tend to have a following of those people who just dont wanna be in a guild and that is fair. However this person would be so gimped if not in a linkshell since you can only chat in a small window and no global or regional chats. Focus on grouping yet to group up is so annoying cant do a normal old invite...Just seems like with every awesome Idea they destroy it with old implemented stuff from ancient days of MMOs.
#37 Oct 06 2010 at 10:25 AM Rating: Good
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Igax wrote:
No pop ups or tips as to what putting x points in y attribute will get you.. NOTHING not even a vague description. So I as player am left guessing they followed the same basic system as every other RPG, str=fighter, Int=Mage, Dex=rouge. Some things should not be left to guesswork and head scratching.


Well, it does explain to you what the stats and things are. There's a manual of sorts at the aetheryte crystals; "The Call of Adventure" (Chapter 2 - Character Development -> Section III - Physical Level -> Sub-section IIIa - Attributes). I found it quite helpful in answering general questions that I had. And NPCs explain basic things.

STR = physical attack, VIT = physical defense, DEX = attack accuracy.
INT, MND, PIE = same as above, but in regards to magic.

But yea, the lack of community is really disappointing to me. I loved that about FFXI, but found the battle system dull. Battles are more fun in XIV, but the chat system is horrendous. :/

Edited, Oct 6th 2010 12:27pm by Lhune
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