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Crafting Discussion, tell us what you learned!Follow

#1 Oct 03 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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For the lack of a general crafting forum to discuss technique, I would like to start a thread where we can trade information and ask questions to help perfect our arts.

Though, I don't have too much knowledge as of yet, I can say I have noticed with the recent patch that crafting has become more difficult. Where I once was able to make hemp cloth at level 10 without failure, at 11 I fail 1 out of 3 or 4 times. But, while putting peices together to make say, a cowl, it seems to always succeed. So, it seems parts require a higher level than making the whole. If this is not your experience, let me know.

Also, with the new patch, where I once used rapid more often, I now find myself using standard. Rapid seems to fail a lot more and have a higher durability loss than standard. Duability loss also seems to be affected by level. A high level fail will usually net me about 20-25 loss, while a low level loss nets about 10-15.

Ask your questions, or give us some of your answers. We would all like to know.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 4:47pm by Castrophany
#2 Oct 03 2010 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
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This is a useful thread. Give the community some of your knowledge.
#3 Oct 03 2010 at 5:04 PM Rating: Good
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I've been hoping for some sort of thread like this. Since the patch I've just been failing at everything I try even after upgrading my gear to have just about double the amount of craftsmanship stat then I had before...and I'm still failing.

Even used the blacksmiths master forge on a level 10 synthesis while I was level 10 and still failed horrendously. If anyone has some advice, hints, or whatever for crafting I'm really all ears.
#4 Oct 03 2010 at 5:12 PM Rating: Good
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All I do is spam Standard on Solid Color, use Abilities from many DoH, wear gears to boost as much stat as possible (and all-rounded on all Craftsmanship, Mag Craftsmanship and Control). I do notice that the tool is very important. After I changed from Bronze Chaser Hammer to Bronze Ornamental Hammer I found my self botching less recipe. I also do believe lag has some sort of effect on crafting, I always get the Guild Support and run all the way into an empty market ward to craft to avoid lag.
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#5 Oct 03 2010 at 5:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Standard is your bread and butter. It succeeds most often and its failures aren't as catastrophic as rapid or bold. If you want to create something at or above your level, you'll most likely be doing standards with rapids on white. Waiting seems to be hit or miss, because waiting down a red into a white can often cost as much as the standard failure on red. The most important thing I've learned is that even if you're crafting a level one item, sometimes you're just going to blow up your synth on every attempt for no reason.

While it's not technically a craft, here's my tip for mining (which I assume is applicable to all gathering professions): If the message says "You're close to something, but cannot extract it," hit that same mark again the next time. You'll dig up something 100% of the time using that method.
#6 Oct 03 2010 at 5:21 PM Rating: Decent
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When crafting, how important is the color?

Should I be making sure to start synthesizing on a certain color? And when it starts shooting out sparks should I wait or just carry on synthing like normal?
#7 Oct 03 2010 at 5:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
When crafting, how important is the color?

Color determines your chance of success and also how much quality you can pull out of an action. So white has the highest chance of success, but the lowest amount of quality to be gained. While red has the lowest chance of success, but the highest chance of extra quality being gained. Yellow is somewhere in between, and random colors appear to be random among all three standard colors.

Shooting sparks appear to influence the amount of durability you'll lose when you fail an action, and I don't believe I've ever been able to make an item stop shooting sparks by waiting. To me the sparks act more as a tension-builder, since your basic method never really changes, even if it's ready to blow.
#8 Oct 03 2010 at 5:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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I agree the most important thing is the tool / crafting stats. I did some rough tests on a few factors between Weaver 17->19 including:

1) Tool Used
2) Crafting Gear
3) Type of Support
4) Elemental Stats
5) My level relative to recipe level
6) Direction Faced [Just kidding]

I find the tool used to be the #1 most important thing, and whether that is just inherently from most of the stat increases or not, I don't know because I don't have enough crafting gear to offset the stat gains.

2nd most important thing was #5, my level relative to the craft level.

Two tips from what's helped me in my experience:

1) "Fulfillment" from Leatherworker has been the DoH ability that I like the most. Increases success rate across the board, it's also what I use when elemental instability doesn't want to go away.

2) While you generally should wait out the elemental instability (since most people don't have the abilities to stabilize yet), the wait vs stability tradeoff becomes very hazardous after a certain point, around the 3rd or 4th wait. Sometimes, you just have to grit you teeth and do a Standard. But after you do one standard, your wait durability cost resets back to 1. I generally Wait, Wait, Wait, and at that point if durability is lower than what I'm comfortable with then I just do standard, and wait again. It's never taken me longer than 8 actions (and even 7 was only once) for elemental to stabilize, so by taking a chance one time in between instead of doing 'wait' 7-8 consecutive time you save yourself a lot of durability. If you 'wait' 8 times in a row, you're probably going to fail the synth anyway.
#9 Oct 03 2010 at 5:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Preserve from Alch is also great when you have a stubborn element. It resets the color to white and keeps it there for 3 actions.

No idea if it clears sparks or the unstable crash though. Anyone know?
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#10 Oct 03 2010 at 5:51 PM Rating: Good
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I recieved the level 10 ability from weaving that gives a added success to bold synths. I don't necessarily see any difference. What of the other abilities, are they more effective? Has anyone noticed a difference?

Something that was posted above, I also don't like to use the wait feature too often. I will do so about 2 or 3 times at most. After that, the durability loss seems unneccessary.



[sm](Also to admins if you read this, it looks like I'm being what the locals call, karma camped... Either that or this thread has angered someone.)[/sm]

Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 7:58pm by Castrophany
#11 Oct 03 2010 at 5:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Green Arrow to the rescue. (x2)
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#12 Oct 03 2010 at 6:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
2) While you generally should wait out the elemental instability (since most people don't have the abilities to stabilize yet), the wait vs stability tradeoff becomes very hazardous after a certain point, around the 3rd or 4th wait.


Additional Info: Using a skill after a wait reset the next wait to 1 dur loss, so if u can do equip as many different skill as possible (even if u are not using them).

After the patch it seems like bold syn is starting to get good. Its almost impossible to sucess b4 the patch. Now its easier to get 300 quailty on those syn that is low level to me thus making alot more +2 and +3. Rapid have become totally useless in some ways...

Quote:
Shooting sparks appear to influence the amount of durability you'll lose when you fail an action, and I don't believe I've ever been able to make an item stop shooting sparks by waiting. To me the sparks act more as a tension-builder, since your basic method never really changes, even if it's ready to blow.


I heard one of my LS mate said (but did not test), Alchy skill preserve can remove the sparks.



Edited, Oct 4th 2010 12:08am by Sleepymagi
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#13 Oct 03 2010 at 6:05 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Green Arrow to the rescue. (x2)


Thanks. I just can't imagine why I would be defaulted in this thread. I gave one back since no doubt you will get the red for the save.

In any case...

Magical craftmanship vs craftmanship. Has anyone noticed how these are applied?

I assume control dictates your control over the crystal element. The more control, th less likely an unstable crystal.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 10:26pm by Castrophany
#14 Oct 03 2010 at 6:31 PM Rating: Good
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Get blacksmith to level 10 and learn Maker's Muse. Your Standard synthesis rate increases which is what's spammed now.

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#15 Oct 03 2010 at 6:44 PM Rating: Good
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Thanks alot for the great info everyone, this is sure to be a huge help.

But ok, here is a silly question...those how do I use those level 10 abilities you get from the classes? I just got the level 10 ability from Blacksmith to increase the success of Standard synthesis and I've seen no deference at all.

Though as others have said, I do see a slight increase in the success rate of bold synth. Or perhaps its been dumb luck, since I've now found out what the colors mean.
#16 Oct 03 2010 at 6:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
But ok, here is a silly question...those how do I use those level 10 abilities you get from the classes? I just got the level 10 ability from Blacksmith to increase the success of Standard synthesis and I've seen no deference at all.


If it is anything like weaver, when you assign skills, there are boxes that say abilities. You click on one of the boxes, and it will pull up a new list. You then assign like you would a DOW's skill. I would assume the same for traits.

The ability would then show up at random when synthing.
#17 Oct 03 2010 at 7:13 PM Rating: Good
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Oh I have them equipped. So they just activate on there own sometimes? Great...I guess I'm just terribly unlucky then. I have the one for Black smith and Armorer now which work on rapid and standard synths. Those two have not proced for me once in 2 days then...great.

Ok, another question. What are the crafting stats and what do they effect exactly? I know we have 'Craftsmanship', Magic Craftsmanship' and 'Control'. I know I have more + Craftsmanship then anything but I'm not sure what thats doing. Anyone have any ideas?
#18 Oct 03 2010 at 7:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Oh I have them equipped. So they just activate on there own sometimes? Great...I guess I'm just terribly unlucky then. I have the one for Black smith and Armorer now which work on rapid and standard synths. Those two have not proced for me once in 2 days then...great.

Ok, another question. What are the crafting stats and what do they effect exactly? I know we have 'Craftsmanship', Magic Craftsmanship' and 'Control'. I know I have more + Craftsmanship then anything but I'm not sure what thats doing. Anyone have any ideas?


I had the same question. I am assuming, but...

Control - means crystal control. The more control, the less likely an unstable crystal
Craftmanship - Better for mats
Magic craftmanship - Better for the final product

I would like to know if I am wrong.
#19 Oct 03 2010 at 7:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Thanks. I just can't imagine why I would be defaulted in this thread. I gave one back since no doubt you will get the red for the save.

Probably because the original thread was meant as a consolidation of crafting information (rate up), the second post -- less than an hour later -- was a shameless bump (rate down), your third post whined about karma (rate down), your fourth post kept whining about karma again (rate down), your fifth post was helpful information (rate up), and your sixth post continued with thread-important information (rate up).
#20 Oct 03 2010 at 7:42 PM Rating: Good
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Blacksmith 14 here, with almost all my subs over 10.

Let me first say that: "You gotta face east on full moon or burst!!!"

My experiences has pushed me to believe that there is affinity between colors and types of synthesis:

White - Standard
Red - Rapid
Yellow - Bold
Blinking - wait (or just random chance), the faster it blinks the worse.

Now after the patch rapid got nerfed hard which put most of us in trouble, however after some experimentation I can say that succeeding in an average synthesis didn't actually become incredibly hard, just the rules changed a bit.

If you are going for quality follow the colors above and you should be fine, although you should only try to HQ things that 5 or more levels under your rank.

The problem is that we are usually trying to make things 3-4 levels above our rank which is naturally harder, although I have been able to synthesize certain things as high as level 21 (like iron nails) with my 14 rank, one important thing is your main hand gear, higher level tools have more craftsmanship and control, try to use always the highest level tool available for your level.

This is the process I'm currently following for high level crafts:

1) Mentalize myself that crafting this is a) random, b) very hard and c) expensive
2) Make sure that all my equipment is repaired (I have noticed increasing failures on even easy synthesis when I try to craft with some gear damaged)
3) Get master level support (even if it means going to another city for it)
4) Follow the following rules:
- White => standard
- Red => rapid
- Yellow => standard (I will explain why)
- Blinking => wait, until it becomes solid color or twice, if it's still blinking after two waits use standard, otherwise follow the pattern above.
5) Never touch up recipes above your level, I can't count the number of times that I have botched a synthesis with over 40 durability for being greedy and trying to touch it.

Now all this is to archive one purpose, get in average 1% progress for each 1 durability lost, that's why I go with standard on yellow color orbs, because even if my personal experience has shown that yellow orbs favors bold I never use it on hard synthesis, it's really risky and in the best case scenario I would probably only get as much progress as durability loss.

Well that's it, sorry for the long post, and thank you for speeding your time reading it.

Ken

Edited, Oct 4th 2010 8:42am by kenage
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#21 Oct 03 2010 at 8:05 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not so sure about Elemental Affinity in regards to Synthesis.

I'm Rank 17 (about half to 18) Alchemist and I've not noticed any odd results pre-se doing stuff with no elemental points assigned.

I'm sitting on like 170 unassigned Elemental points. Not quite sure how to go about testing it really - most synths use multiple crystals, etc.
#22 Oct 03 2010 at 8:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
2) Make sure that all my equipment is repaired (I have noticed increasing failures on even easy synthesis when I try to craft with some gear damaged)
3) Get master level support (even if it means going to another city for it)
4) Follow the following rules:
- White => standard
- Red => rapid
- Yellow => standard (I will explain why)
- Blinking => wait, until solid color or twice, if it's still blinking standard otherwise follow the pattern above
5) Never touch up recipes above your level, I can count the number of times that I have botched a synthesis with over 40 durability for being greedy and trying to touch it.


Do you really think there is much room for rapid anymore? I see losses most the time, and durability loss much greater then expected. With rapid, if I fail i get 20-25 loss, and with the "non message", I see 10-15. Max gain is 30 while most of the time I see 22. With 2 out of 3 failing on easier synths, I don't believe using rapid is very efficient. I do however use it as a lasy ditch effort to hit 100 percent if my dur. is 15 and I have 25 - 30 left to succeed.
#23 Oct 03 2010 at 8:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Wow, thanks a bunch ken. I'll try what you said out!

Now, has anyone notice a difference in anything (huge speculation to follow) when selecting to synth based on the time bar? I sometimes like to wait for the time bar to be almost gone when using bold synth, but now I'm wondering if its been due to the color or not. If I can get a better feel for using the colors then I'll try experimenting with the time.

Ok, another question...is there any sort of benefit to a unstable crystal? I highly doubt it but you never know sometimes.
#24 Oct 03 2010 at 8:24 PM Rating: Good
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There is nothing behind the time bar, it's just a time bar, that's all. There's no sort of trick to wait just before it expire to hit Synth or not.
Unstable Element is always bad, there's no sort of benefit in it. It's bad because as your level/gear grow up compare to the level of the recipe, you get it less.
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#25 Oct 03 2010 at 9:00 PM Rating: Good
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Castrophany wrote:
Quote:
2) Make sure that all my equipment is repaired (I have noticed increasing failures on even easy synthesis when I try to craft with some gear damaged)
3) Get master level support (even if it means going to another city for it)
4) Follow the following rules:
- White => standard
- Red => rapid
- Yellow => standard (I will explain why)
- Blinking => wait, until solid color or twice, if it's still blinking standard otherwise follow the pattern above
5) Never touch up recipes above your level, I can count the number of times that I have botched a synthesis with over 40 durability for being greedy and trying to touch it.


Do you really think there is much room for rapid anymore? I see losses most the time, and durability loss much greater then expected. With rapid, if I fail i get 20-25 loss, and with the "non message", I see 10-15. Max gain is 30 while most of the time I see 22. With 2 out of 3 failing on easier synths, I don't believe using rapid is very efficient. I do however use it as a lasy ditch effort to hit 100 percent if my dur. is 15 and I have 25 - 30 left to succeed.
it's a gamble, still you have to make the most smart decision to control the risk.

I did something around 300 synths in the weekend, I can tell you based on that experience that rapid have around 50% chance of success on red orbs, and successes give you about 25%~ progress, with about 6~ quality loss, now failures give something like 5%~ progress, with 22~ quality loss, now if you average that it will result in more than 1% per 1 quality point, and that is the only target.

Crafting in this game is tricky because we have to think statistically and our brain is naturally impacted by single dramatic events rather than calmly analyze the entire data pool and focus on averages.

If anything I recommend all of you to keep note of your crafting, get data: success on yellows, reds, and white orbs, even keep progress vs durability loss on different color/synths combos.

By the way, does anyone knows where are log files stored? it would be really nice to copy-paste this information directly from the game's log.

Ken
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#26 Oct 03 2010 at 9:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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I also wanted to refresh people on the information given by SE.

Source: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=5542db352bb764087916b9d9200acf78650edf81

Quote:
Q. I haven't been having much success crafting items. What am I doing wrong?
A. The colored, glowing graphics provides players with a large hint toward a successful synthesis. When the glow is white, the synthesis is at its most stable, and the chances of success are high. When the glow takes on a color, however, the chances of success are low. Players seeking simple completion of their synthesis rather than high-quality results should attempt to use the Wait command when the indicator is colored to restore the stability of the synthesis before finishing it.

Q. Is there a trick to synthesizing high-quality items?
A. Though synthesis actions carried out while the colored circle graphic is red suffer a reduced rate of success, they often serve to increase the quality of the synthesis. In addition, the successful execution of consecutive actions also serves to increase quality. Ultimately, the higher the quality of the synthesis process, the more likely it is to yield a high-quality result.


Given this information, I would suppose that when crafting a low level item with bold on red would net the highest quality gain. On the flip side, hitting rapid on white for higher level synths seems like the most efficient use. Normal on yellow would then be the standard pick for even level synths by default.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 11:16pm by Castrophany
#27 Oct 03 2010 at 9:43 PM Rating: Good
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since the patch it has been my experience that rapid = suicide, i just spam standard now with fulfill and preserve skills thrown in to help the synth along <preferring to use preserve to clear out yellow/red/flashy orbs if possible>.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 8:43pm by gerwenscalebane
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#28 Oct 03 2010 at 9:53 PM Rating: Good
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lambon wrote:
Get blacksmith to level 10 and learn Maker's Muse. Your Standard synthesis rate increases which is what's spammed now.



I groaned a bit when I read this because I had leveled ARM to 10 just for the rapid buff and a day later they nerfed rapid.

Oh well, now it's time for BSM.

Question: is there any predictability about when the craft skills show up for use during a synth? Seems kinda random to me.
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#29 Oct 03 2010 at 10:14 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I'm not so sure about Elemental Affinity in regards to Synthesis.

I'm Rank 17 (about half to 18) Alchemist and I've not noticed any odd results pre-se doing stuff with no elemental points assigned.

I'm sitting on like 170 unassigned Elemental points. Not quite sure how to go about testing it really - most synths use multiple crystals, etc.


The theory is that the points you put into certain elements help you maintain better control of said element. The best way to test I suppose would be test a certain recipe that only uses one element. One set of tests would be without the points allocated, this would be the control. The second set would be with max points in the element. The difference between how many times the element went unstable, and any other data about success v failure, etc, would be evidence of said claim.
#30 Oct 04 2010 at 1:14 AM Rating: Good
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Castrophany wrote:
Quote:
I'm not so sure about Elemental Affinity in regards to Synthesis.

I'm Rank 17 (about half to 18) Alchemist and I've not noticed any odd results pre-se doing stuff with no elemental points assigned.

I'm sitting on like 170 unassigned Elemental points. Not quite sure how to go about testing it really - most synths use multiple crystals, etc.


The theory is that the points you put into certain elements help you maintain better control of said element. The best way to test I suppose would be test a certain recipe that only uses one element. One set of tests would be without the points allocated, this would be the control. The second set would be with max points in the element. The difference between how many times the element went unstable, and any other data about success v failure, etc, would be evidence of said claim.


I don't believe this theory, I've seen lightning element unstable in recipe with fire and wind shard. How are you going to control the element unstable now, when anything can happen?
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#31 Oct 04 2010 at 1:39 AM Rating: Good
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Castrophany wrote:
I also wanted to refresh people on the information given by SE.

Source: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=5542db352bb764087916b9d9200acf78650edf81

Quote:
Q. I haven't been having much success crafting items. What am I doing wrong?
A. The colored, glowing graphics provides players with a large hint toward a successful synthesis. When the glow is white, the synthesis is at its most stable, and the chances of success are high. When the glow takes on a color, however, the chances of success are low. Players seeking simple completion of their synthesis rather than high-quality results should attempt to use the Wait command when the indicator is colored to restore the stability of the synthesis before finishing it.

Q. Is there a trick to synthesizing high-quality items?
A. Though synthesis actions carried out while the colored circle graphic is red suffer a reduced rate of success, they often serve to increase the quality of the synthesis. In addition, the successful execution of consecutive actions also serves to increase quality. Ultimately, the higher the quality of the synthesis process, the more likely it is to yield a high-quality result.


Given this information, I would suppose that when crafting a low level item with bold on red would net the highest quality gain. On the flip side, hitting rapid on white for higher level synths seems like the most efficient use. Normal on yellow would then be the standard pick for even level synths by default.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 11:16pm by Castrophany


Rapid sucess rate is still very low on white, and the increase dur loss even from a sucessful syn made it worst. Better to use standard and hope you get a sucess syn with 0 dur. Rapid can fail with 27~ dur loss and 0% progress compare to standard which sucess more often and have some minimum progress.

This system current doesn't seem to be a wat color is good for wat type of syn, Its more toward wats the sucess rate is and gamble base on how much dur you have left.
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#32 Oct 04 2010 at 1:50 AM Rating: Decent
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the hardest part about the crafting system is the HUGE lack of bag space period
#33 Oct 04 2010 at 2:04 AM Rating: Good
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I learnt that I got 27 fails in a row trying to do a level 10 carpentry leve when I was at level 9 carpentry...
#34 Oct 04 2010 at 2:17 AM Rating: Good
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Evilhobbit wrote:
lambon wrote:
Get blacksmith to level 10 and learn Maker's Muse. Your Standard synthesis rate increases which is what's spammed now.



I groaned a bit when I read this because I had leveled ARM to 10 just for the rapid buff and a day later they nerfed rapid.

Oh well, now it's time for BSM.


Another good option is getting Alchemy to 10 for Preserve. Keeps the color white for 3-4 turns...
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#35 Oct 04 2010 at 2:23 AM Rating: Decent
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gerwenscalebane wrote:
since the patch it has been my experience that rapid = suicide, i just spam standard now with fulfill and preserve skills thrown in to help the synth along <preferring to use preserve to clear out yellow/red/flashy orbs if possible>.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 8:43pm by gerwenscalebane
Definitely the best skill so far, but I bet most serious crafters already have alchemy in 11+

Ken
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FFXIV: Mabel Rand (Gugnir)
FFXI: Kenage, retired.
K&K forever!,
#36 Oct 04 2010 at 2:28 AM Rating: Good
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I think it's best to start with what we absolutely know, either because SE told us or it is irrefutably true:
-All synths start White.
-Yellow and Red have a lower chance of success than does White (SE says "a color").
-A successful synthesis attempt on Red increases quality more than others.
-Consecutive successes get a bonus to Quality.
-The tool you choose affects the results of a HQ synth.
-Selecting wait sometimes changes the color. It can go from any state to any other including Flashing.
-Selecting wait enough can fix a destabilized element.

What we cannot definitely infer, and will require testing:
-The success rate of Flashing compared to the solid colors (Again, SE says "a color." We cannot definitely say that Flashing is included in "a color". We are talking about SE here.)
-The effect of White, Yellow, and Flashing on Quality, Durability loss, Progress etc
-How the success rates of Yellow and Red differ
-How the success rates of the actions differ
-Whether the colors have an affinity toward certain actions
-Whether the Quality bonus of consecutive successes increases for each success
-Whether tool choice affects the chance of success, Quality, Durability loss, Progress etc
-What sparks do
-What a destabilized element does, and whether certain elements have an affinity for certain actions

Basically, there's a lot to test.


Right now I simply can't formulate a full theory. I know White has a higher chance of success, but based on my observations I'm really not sure if Yellow has a higher success rate than Red. It's possible Yellow has an affinity for Rapid and Red has an affinity for Bold, but I see little success trying Rapid on Yellow and I haven't tested Bold on Red enough to make even a guess. I blow up a lot on Flashing, so for now I'm going to call that the fail color. Failing on a destabilized element is catastrophic. I've had critical success and critical failure on every color doing every action except wait.

So here goes my guess:

-When you begin the craft, the RNG assigns that process a success chance modifier.
-There may be modifiers for Durability loss, Quality gains, Progress gains, chance for element destabilization, and others.
-The base chance of success is shown by color, with White>Yellow>Red>Flashing.
-The color (stability) is determined by a finer scale, with perhaps 0-24 being White, and so on.
-The fine scale could be what affects your base chance, or it could just be the coarse color scale.
-One of the stats helps stabilize your color (get it farther toward white), probably Control.
-Selecting wait either adds or subtracts from your stability, tending toward stability but sometimes getting less stable.
-Using actions either adds or subtracts from your stability, tending toward decreasing stability but sometimes getting more stable.
-Same as above for failing.
-Critical failures tend toward increasing stability.
-Using Rapid adds a random amount to a "Sparks Counter", which can increase through the thresholds pertaining to Yellow and Red sparks, and can decrease to those thresholds, but cannot decrease past them.
-Using any action other than Random subtracts a random amount to the "Sparks Counter"
-Sparks slightly decrease your chance of success, Red being worse than Yellow.
-Sparks decrease your progress gains to a higher degree than success chance, Red being worse than Yellow.

This is getting pretty long and hard to follow, so I should probably stop here. My guess seems plausible enough, I guess.

My method:
-Standard on white.
-Wait up to 3 times on any other color.
-Wait as long as it takes on destabilized element.


Edit because something didn't make any sense.

Edited, Oct 4th 2010 4:30am by DragoonRising

Edited, Oct 4th 2010 4:31am by DragoonRising
#37 Oct 04 2010 at 9:49 AM Rating: Decent
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I agree with almost everything DragoonRising just wrote.

The one exception: I don't always wait for white. The durability loss from waiting for white all the time isn't worth it. If I'm crafting for levequest or skillup and just want completion I will usually wait once on red just to see what's next if it goes back to white, standard again. Anything else, I go bold. Sometimes I just say ***** it and go bold. I found that doing this many times succeed or fail, by using bold on red I go back to white. The only time I use multiple waits is if my crystal is unstable.

Yellow, I use Rapid on yellow almost always unless I just need a standard or two to finish the synth. For me the larger gains from rapid on yellow seem to balance the chance at failure. I never use rapid on red.

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#38 Oct 04 2010 at 9:58 AM Rating: Good
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UnusedName wrote:
I agree with almost everything DragoonRising just wrote.

The one exception: I don't always wait for white. The durability loss from waiting for white all the time isn't worth it. If I'm crafting for levequest or skillup and just want completion I will usually wait once on red just to see what's next if it goes back to white, standard again. Anything else, I go bold. Sometimes I just say ***** it and go bold. I found that doing this many times succeed or fail, by using bold on red I go back to white. The only time I use multiple waits is if my crystal is unstable.

Yellow, I use Rapid on yellow almost always unless I just need a standard or two to finish the synth. For me the larger gains from rapid on yellow seem to balance the chance at failure. I never use rapid on red.



^^^^ This pretty much.

In addition, never, ever, ever do synthesis that is at or above your rank unless it's a leve. You are guarantied to botch the synthesis. On the off chance that you succeed it's good xp, but often it's a failure and a total loss.

I usually start with standard, once or twice to get it to half way progress. Than shoot for bolds or standards. If it changes to red and i'm over 60-70 durability I'll go bold every time. If it fails i might wait once and try it again. If i reach 30 durability at anything less than 70-80 progress i'll stick with standard/wait. If it looks like it's not going to make it anyway i might throw in a fast for the **** of it.


#39 Oct 04 2010 at 12:17 PM Rating: Good
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Sleepymagi wrote:
Castrophany wrote:
I also wanted to refresh people on the information given by SE.

Source: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=5542db352bb764087916b9d9200acf78650edf81

Quote:
Q. I haven't been having much success crafting items. What am I doing wrong?
A. The colored, glowing graphics provides players with a large hint toward a successful synthesis. When the glow is white, the synthesis is at its most stable, and the chances of success are high. When the glow takes on a color, however, the chances of success are low. Players seeking simple completion of their synthesis rather than high-quality results should attempt to use the Wait command when the indicator is colored to restore the stability of the synthesis before finishing it.

Q. Is there a trick to synthesizing high-quality items?
A. Though synthesis actions carried out while the colored circle graphic is red suffer a reduced rate of success, they often serve to increase the quality of the synthesis. In addition, the successful execution of consecutive actions also serves to increase quality. Ultimately, the higher the quality of the synthesis process, the more likely it is to yield a high-quality result.


Given this information, I would suppose that when crafting a low level item with bold on red would net the highest quality gain. On the flip side, hitting rapid on white for higher level synths seems like the most efficient use. Normal on yellow would then be the standard pick for even level synths by default.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2010 11:16pm by Castrophany


Rapid sucess rate is still very low on white, and the increase dur loss even from a sucessful syn made it worst. Better to use standard and hope you get a sucess syn with 0 dur. Rapid can fail with 27~ dur loss and 0% progress compare to standard which sucess more often and have some minimum progress.

This system current doesn't seem to be a wat color is good for wat type of syn, Its more toward wats the sucess rate is and gamble base on how much dur you have left.


You are preaching to the choir here. Though, with the information given, it can be assumed that this is the conclusion we are supposed to arrive at. I'll explain.

Though they haven't come out and said it, they let us make the connection with those two QnAs.

They say in the first that white has the highest probability of succeeding and the other colors have a lower chance.
Next, they say the difficulty of the synth has an affect to which more gain can be had; the harder the difficulty, the more gain. They give the example of a red synth. Going with the color scheme used everywhere in this game, we assume red is the hardest and yellow is the second hardest. When a mob cons red, we know to stay away, but we will try on yellow. When we beat a mob on red, we gain the most, and so on.
They have said hints exist all over the game for the crafting system. We can assume that the relationship with mobs to crafting is a hint.

Then we measure risk v reward.
On an easy synth, we can assume we can nail a red bold more often then not. A red bold will yield the most quality given this information.
On a hard synth, we are not looking for quality, just success. A white rapid would yield the least amount of quality gain, but give the most to finishing the product.
On an even level synth, we assume we can hit standards most of the time, though synthing on red is a bit tricky and can end in failure more often then wanted. We also know a bold synth will fail most of the time, too. A yellow standard, then, would yield the most quality gain and be the efficient option.

So next we move on to the second part of the second QnA. Successful repeated synths also increase quality gain. This can bring up a new strategy, which is just hitting standard on everything. Some people do this already. I have tested this out for one level of synths to see how it works. It doesn't always succeed, but it can give a decent quality item if it does. I usually only get about 3 successes before a failed attempt on easy items. (Though, I would suspect since this type of synthing strategy yields higher results, knowing SE, this type of synth also have a higher probability of error with each consecutive synth.) I don't, however, see this strategy working on most things, so I cannot recommend it. For example, this strategy will yield failures every time on hemp cloth.

I had other theories (and all given strategies will remain theories until solid confirmation is given by SE) but I lost my thought process. If I remember I will post again.
#40 Oct 04 2010 at 12:30 PM Rating: Good
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Something I've noticed about elemental destabilization is that if it's one of my strong elements such as Earth or Wind it doesn't make much of a difference. If it's a weak element like lightning the amount of progress gained is halved for a successful synth.
#41 Oct 04 2010 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
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I posted the following in my Lodestone blog, and would like some of your thoughts:

2. I’m just going to throw out this list of crafts, and possible attribute influences:
a. Alchemy – intelligence, because of the ability called Extrapolation that increases the influence of intelligence on craftsmanship.
b. Armorer – vitality, because of the ability learned called Resolution, which increases the influence of vitality on craftsmanship.
c. Blacksmith – strength, because of the ability called Sublimation.
d. Culinarian – piety, because of the ability Devotion.
e. Goldsmith – dexterity, because of the ability Manipulation.
f. Weaver – Mind, because of the Determination ability.
g. Carpentry -- ???
h. Leatherworking -- ???
3. What about crafts and elemental affinities??
a. Alchemy – ???
b. Armorer – earth, because of the Brand of Earth ability.
c. Blacksmith – fire, because of the Brand of Fire ability.
d. Carpentry – ???
e. Culinarian – water, because of the Brand of Water ability.
f. Goldsmith – ice, because of the Brand of Ice ability.
g. Leatherworker – lightning, because of the Brand of Lightning ability.
h. Weaver – wind, because of the Brand of Wind ability.
4. As far as abilities go, what are the different types of items mentioned:
a. Finished – not sure, but maybe this would be the equipment, made up of several parts and materials, such as the doublet.
b. Enhanced – maybe the same as Finished, but these can actually use the Touch Up?
c. Mass Production – I see materials, like yarns, cloths, ingots, leather, etc.. I could also see those items, which results in multiples being made, like leather straps made from 1 leather.
d. Materials – I see things like straps possibly, or maybe this is the yarn, nuggets, etc…
e. Parts – things like the doublet front, tunic back, hempen sleeves, leather shoulder guards, etc…
f. Decorations –
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#42 Oct 04 2010 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
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If you are serious about crafting get the best tool for your level - especially once you are past 10 - get a level 12 tool. The difference it makes is huge. With the weathered saw I couldn't get more than 1/2 completion on willow wands at level 12 - with a chocotail saw - completion - tough - but totally doable most times.

Crafting gear also seems to help.
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