Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2
This Forum is Read Only

No AH....really?Follow

#1 Oct 04 2010 at 1:04 PM Rating: Decent
17 posts
No AH is one of the worst ideas they came up with...pfft...and if they ever put one ingame
it'll prolly take 15 clicks just to buy something.

I for one am not gonna click on player after player to find what I need. I did click on one player on the first day I played and even that involved 4 or 5 clicks. Enough of that.

Guess I'll play in my level 1 gear till the free trial runs out, then wait till they put an
AH in the game...or Guild Wars 2...whichever comes first.

What a disappointment SE has been so far on their new game...perhaps they shoulda hired some
gamers to give em advise. FFXI was dabomb...IV is dafail
#2 Oct 04 2010 at 1:17 PM Rating: Default
Sage
**
378 posts
We are surviving without an AH...

It's really not as bad as people think... auction houses are sterile environments that don't support communities.

When I first started I thought the game would be awful... but it really just forces players to form communities.

Auction house is easy mode.

Its sort of like how partying in ffxi used to be. Since after a certain level soloing was hardly a viable option it forced you to join or make parties, which forced you to form bonds with others in the community, through parties you made friends, got invited to linkshells and became a member of the ffxi community...

now its the same deal but for crafters. You need x item and it requires y rank in carpentry... but you are already z in blacksmithing... you can be antisocial and spend hours or days leveling carpentry... or you can enter the community, find some woodworkers, form friendships, make beneficial trade agreements and now you can focus on your blacksmithing, help out your carpenter friend and be helped out in turn.

It's scary...

but it works.
____________________________

Retainer: Ferthmart
FFXI: Ferth - Cerbereus Nee Hades Nee Leviathan.
#3 Oct 04 2010 at 1:19 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
**
534 posts
I'm just ****** I haven't seen a worm yet. I loved worms in FFXI. If I don't see a worm by rank 50...I may have to give the game arest for a bit.

As far as AH...dude...that's kinda the biggest topic on the forums since the beta days. I think SE knows about that little mini elephant in the room.

But thanks for the new thread.
____________________________
Amos Fin - Ultros

#4 Oct 04 2010 at 1:57 PM Rating: Default
*
120 posts
Give the people some challenge, and their shoot. Why not making crafting like in WoW where you dont have to think mutch...or why not teleport you to leavequest location...

Where gonna survive withour an AH that is sure
#5 Oct 04 2010 at 2:04 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
20 posts
mmolma wrote:
Give the people some challenge, and their shoot. Why not making crafting like in WoW where you dont have to think mutch...or why not teleport you to leavequest location...

Where gonna survive withour an AH that is sure


So does spamming standard over and over again require you to think 'mutch'?

Crafting is this game is no more complicated than in WoW, it's just time consuming and requires you to alt tab to a 3rd party site.
#6 Oct 04 2010 at 2:24 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,010 posts
F3rth wrote:

We are surviving without an AH...

It's really not as bad as people think... auction houses are sterile environments that don't support communities.

When I first started I thought the game would be awful... but it really just forces players to form communities.

Auction house is easy mode.


Auction house is easy mode... Let me just digest that for a moment.

Wow. The posts on this site defending this failboat of a system just get better and better. An Auction house is easy mode. Now I have seen it all.
#7 Oct 04 2010 at 2:25 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
*
119 posts
Its a pretty straight forward thing: If I want to buy something I go to the store and buy it. I do not ask every guy on the street for milk.

I don't want to ask every person in a room with over 200 people standing idle all day if they have milk.

Separating wards is a step but still you end up with a room full of people standing idle as you ask every person if they have milk.

I would pay SE twice as much per month to be able to type in milk and see a list of who on the server is selling milk and for how much and with one simple click buy it. I play a few hours a night and don't find tedious shopping as the highlight of my evening.

Edited, Oct 4th 2010 4:26pm by Twolow24
#8 Oct 04 2010 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
**
394 posts
Twolow24 wrote:
Its a pretty straight forward thing: If I want to buy something I go to the store and buy it. I do not ask every guy on the street for milk.

I don't want to ask every person in a room with over 200 people standing idle all day if they have milk.

Separating wards is a step but still you end up with a room full of people standing idle as you ask every person if they have milk.

I would pay SE twice as much per month to be able to type in milk and see a list of who on the server is selling milk and for how much and with one simple click buy it. I play a few hours a night and don't find tedious shopping as the highlight of my evening.


Alright, obviously they didn't have Stop and Shop back in the medieval days. SE was trying to go for a type of time period where street markets and bazaars were the norm. They looked at stuff in XI like all the mules sitting around in the cities, and the notorious Rolanberry Mall, and said hey this is pretty neat, let's make it a central mechanic since people seem to like it so much. This makes sense and was a cool idea on paper, but of course it ended up not working out. So it's not really "straight-forward", SE was trying something new and it ended up being a disaster because they didn't do it right.

Let's not fault SE for trying out a new system that didn't work, but rather that they tried a new system, didn't give it enough time to see that it wouldn't work, and are now forcing us to deal with it with little hopes for an alternative since they clearly invested too much of the game into hoping that it would work.
#9 Oct 04 2010 at 2:39 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
***
1,235 posts
Yes, fail system is fail. It can't be defended by fanboyism. It can't be defended by calling it "different". It can't be defended by saying the game just came out.

Fail is fail, and this system should never have been released, they knew in all the Beta months that it was trash, and the worst feedback came from the market ward experience.
They have no excuse, and we aren't looking for one, we're looking for an explanation as to how and if/when they will be changing it.
All SE has to do is release a response. It could say, "we aren't changing it for 6 months" and it would still appease the masses.
Unfortunately SE has always stood by the idea that admitting something doesn't work is more damaging to them than addressing the issue, and communicating about it with the players in a timely manner.
This issue and the UI lag are really irritating everyone because everyone who was in the Beta and anyone who knew how long the Betas were going, realizes SE did nothing to address it, even though they had a ridiculous amount of time to do so. The Beta people feel like we tested their game for nothing, as they totally ignored the feedback, and released it as-is. To be honest, we all feel like we're STILL in Beta. Nothing really has changed post-phase 2.
____________________________


"Don't take it personally man, white knights would eat a can of **** if the label said SE on it. If anyone dared mention that it was not a good product, they'd just argue if someone can't appreciate the subtle nuances in the ****, they should just go back to eating lolrealfood, cuz the devs prolly know more about canning food than they do."
#10 Oct 04 2010 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
**
415 posts
Torrence wrote:
F3rth wrote:

We are surviving without an AH...

It's really not as bad as people think... auction houses are sterile environments that don't support communities.

When I first started I thought the game would be awful... but it really just forces players to form communities.

Auction house is easy mode.


Auction house is easy mode... Let me just digest that for a moment.

Wow. The posts on this site defending this failboat of a system just get better and better. An Auction house is easy mode. Now I have seen it all.


I know right? Someone in my ls was saying the same exact thing it's just the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. I am playing as little as possible right now because I am waiting for an announcement to add an ah or a search feature to be implemented. Playing with level one gear at level 11 is not fun.
____________________________
http://vigilantcitizen.com/?p=3571 - Mind Control Theories Used By Mass Media
#11 Oct 04 2010 at 2:53 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
119 posts
Spending all night shopping for the best deal on a item is a teenage girl's dream so maybe that's who this was made for?

Maybe the gold farmers should change their operations. I'd love to hire a Chinese kid to handle my market shopping every day. How much is a real live Chinese retainer cost?
#12 Oct 04 2010 at 2:55 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
*
167 posts
Montydataru wrote:
No AH is one of the worst ideas they came up with...pfft...and if they ever put one ingame
it'll prolly take 15 clicks just to buy something.

I for one am not gonna click on player after player to find what I need. I did click on one player on the first day I played and even that involved 4 or 5 clicks. Enough of that.

Guess I'll play in my level 1 gear till the free trial runs out, then wait till they put an
AH in the game...or Guild Wars 2...whichever comes first.

What a disappointment SE has been so far on their new game...perhaps they shoulda hired some
gamers to give em advise. FFXI was dabomb...IV is dafail


Another one of these post... really?
Posting a new thread is one of the worst ideas you came up with... pfft... Zam has a search function. No clicks away. Type> press enter. BAM.

I suggest using it.
#13 Oct 04 2010 at 2:55 PM Rating: Good
Torrence wrote:

Auction house is easy mode... Let me just digest that for a moment.

Wow. The posts on this site defending this failboat of a system just get better and better. An Auction house is easy mode. Now I have seen it all.


Why does a difference in taste equate to defending a failboat of a system?

Auction Houses are easier. But they also come with some consequences on the economy. There are days I wish there was an auction house, and there are days I am quite content with the retainer system. I understand what they're trying to do with retainers, and it simply won't be realized in 2 weeks.

In 6 months time, this will not be the issue it is now. Partly because some of the people who hate the game now will have left, partly because they'll have improved parts of the retainer system that aren't working well, and partly because the economy and community will have matured to the point where the benefits of the retainer system will start to show themselves.

Also, I've noticed the atmosphere in-game is much different than it is on the forums. Mainly because the people who hate the game are all on here complaining about it, and those who don't are in the game playing. Server populations = thousands. Regular posters = dozens.
____________________________
http://www.pbpmap.com/ - play by post rpgs at their best!


#14 Oct 04 2010 at 3:00 PM Rating: Decent
17 posts
I'd be one thing if you could just walk up to someone, click on them, see what they have, hit esc, and move on to the next seller....but no, there always seems to be that extra click in there.

I remember reading an interview by some game official, and he was talking about the huge amount of server space that just 5 extra inventory spaces for us cost them. Well...with no AH to keep track of, and no mog safe to worry about I'm sure they saved a ton of server space. I'm tired of hearing their lame excuses about how it'll make a better community, or make the gameplay better. The community in ffxi was dabomb, we didn't need someone coming in and eliminating our AH to make the game, or community, "better".



#15 Oct 04 2010 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
20 posts
charityneverfaileth wrote:
Also, I've noticed the atmosphere in-game is much different than it is on the forums. Mainly because the people who hate the game are all on here complaining about it, and those who don't are in the game playing. Server populations = thousands. Regular posters = dozens.


Every time I try to bring up complaints in game the chat box closes and deletes everything I had typed. FFXIV even makes complaining a time sink.
#16 Oct 04 2010 at 3:04 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
2,652 posts
Currently the merchant and crafting community is shaping up to be "Who can you ***** and how hard?" /shrug

#17 Oct 04 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good
**
415 posts
Smelly wrote:
Currently the merchant and crafting community is shaping up to be "Who can you ***** and how hard?" /shrug



Yup this is why we need an ah so we are not overpaying for level 8 armor.
____________________________
http://vigilantcitizen.com/?p=3571 - Mind Control Theories Used By Mass Media
#18 Oct 04 2010 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
119 posts
Smelly wrote:
Currently the merchant and crafting community is shaping up to be "Who can you ***** and how hard?" /shrug


You sir win!
#19 Oct 04 2010 at 3:13 PM Rating: Good
**
415 posts
Mentoc wrote:
charityneverfaileth wrote:
Also, I've noticed the atmosphere in-game is much different than it is on the forums. Mainly because the people who hate the game are all on here complaining about it, and those who don't are in the game playing. Server populations = thousands. Regular posters = dozens.


Every time I try to bring up complaints in game the chat box closes and deletes everything I had typed. FFXIV even makes complaining a time sink.


Heh guess he is on the wrong server. Just saw someone complaining about no ah on Mysidia in a shout.
____________________________
http://vigilantcitizen.com/?p=3571 - Mind Control Theories Used By Mass Media
#20 Oct 04 2010 at 3:14 PM Rating: Default
Smelly wrote:
Currently the merchant and crafting community is shaping up to be "Who can you ***** and how hard?" /shrug


With the upcoming changes, if you see a price that is too high, close your browse window and go to the next retainer. Since we should be seeing retainers that sell similar things for the most part grouped together in the same ward, you shouldn't have nearly as hard of a time finding a decent deal, since the retainers/shops will have direct competition right next to them.

No, it's not as easy as an auction house, where prices are sorted from cheapest to most expensive, but it's certainly a far cry from what you just described.
____________________________
http://www.pbpmap.com/ - play by post rpgs at their best!


#21 Oct 04 2010 at 3:16 PM Rating: Decent
33 posts
Twolow24 wrote:
Its a pretty straight forward thing: If I want to buy something I go to the store and buy it. I do not ask every guy on the street for milk.

Bra-F*cking-Vo Twolow

F3rth wrote:

Auction house is easy mode.

Why should the auction house be anything other than easy mode? Why should it be frustrating and annoying and time-consuming? i work two f*cking jobs and your telling me i should spend hours ******* around in what little spare time i have every time i want to upgrade a piece of equip?
#22 Oct 04 2010 at 3:19 PM Rating: Good
TheMightyX wrote:
Twolow24 wrote:
Its a pretty straight forward thing: If I want to buy something I go to the store and buy it. I do not ask every guy on the street for milk.

Bra-F*cking-Vo Twolow

F3rth wrote:

Auction house is easy mode.

Why should the auction house be anything other than easy mode? Why should it be frustrating and annoying and time-consuming? i work two f*cking jobs and your telling me i should spend hours ******* around in what little spare time i have every time i want to upgrade a piece of equip?


No, we're *suggesting* to you, that either you accept the game as it is, voice your concerns in a civil manner and be patient until improvements or made, or play a game that doesn't frustrate you so much.

I really don't get what all of this complaining is about. Half of you complainers say in one breath that SE never listens to its players, and then in another breath that you're complaining so that things will get fixed. So you're complaining to a company you believe to yourself never listens to it's players in a hope that they'll listen to your complaints and fix the stuff you don't like. I don't want anyone to leave the game, I'd rather everyone enjoyed it. But do a self assessment. If the game ****** you off so much, why are you even playing it, let alone spending hours convincing everyone else to hate it as well, and getting hostile with anyone who actually likes it? Seriously folks.


Edited, Oct 4th 2010 6:21pm by charityneverfaileth

Edited, Oct 4th 2010 6:22pm by charityneverfaileth
____________________________
http://www.pbpmap.com/ - play by post rpgs at their best!


#23 Oct 04 2010 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
17 posts
Oh...I'll play. I'm a long time FF fan, It just isn't the caliber game I expected is all.

I expected them to play off of ffxi, a lil more then just the char skins, and I'd be playing a much improved version of ffxi. What we have here is a new final fantasy game that's way easier for THEM to run, UI changed just for the sake of change, the mog house safe eliminated, and lousy casting graphics. The crafting and fishing are improved I think, but what to do with all the crafted items and fish with no AH...hah ^^

I'll play cuz it's cheap fun and sure beats the **** outta watching TV. It's a game...and just like all video games, it's meant to be a waste of time. Something gamers choose to do with their leisure time. So I'll play....but I'm not gonna pretend that ffxiv has no flaws. I'm not gonna stop believing that, just like all companies, SE is in it strictly for the money....after all isn't that what companies do? make money for the investors.

We are, and always were, the pawns in all of this. It's just now in ffxiv they're making it obvious.

So I'ma go log back on and do my pawn-ee duties....I have yarn to spin up...cya ingame ^^
#24 Oct 04 2010 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
190 posts
what I have started doing, successfully, to combat the lack of an AH+alt tab is.

Play FFXIV via steam in full screen, so I can have access to the steam web browser. AND use ffxivpro.com to search bazaars/wanted on my server. works for now. I know no one mentioned alt + tab in THIS thread, but if he just noticed no AH, he probably didn't realize alt+tab either.

Edited, Oct 4th 2010 5:27pm by odnet
#25 Oct 04 2010 at 3:25 PM Rating: Good
*
127 posts
Montydataru wrote:
The community in ffxi was dabomb, we didn't need someone coming in and eliminating our AH to make the game, or community, "better".


Also, in FFXI the game had entirely martial classes. You needed that community to form parties and level up. FFXIV, the crafting classes are classes in themselves. If people want to focus on mostly crafting, there has to be more to the game than just grinding out items and putting them up on AH. Bartering with other people is where most of the fun is going to be for people who want to focus on crafting.
#26 Oct 04 2010 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent
Montydataru wrote:


We are, and always were, the pawns in all of this. It's just now in ffxiv they're making it obvious.



No one is a pawn. You aren't forced to play the game. If you don't like it, don't play it. If you're a pawn, it's because you choose to be, not because you're forced to be.
____________________________
http://www.pbpmap.com/ - play by post rpgs at their best!


#27 Oct 04 2010 at 3:34 PM Rating: Good
33 posts
Possibly because SE will never learn if everyone keeps forcing themselves to eat the soilent greens.
If ppl keep forcing themselves to say "no its ok, its ok!" then SE thinks "oh, it must be ok".

I am a SE fanboy, but i am also forcing myself to be objective.
You can tell that half the people defending the madness are forcing themselves to find logic in it and the other half and too proud or blind to admit that maybe its not whats best for the game.
We complain because we care.
#28 Oct 04 2010 at 3:36 PM Rating: Good
TheMightyX wrote:
Possibly because SE will never learn if everyone keeps forcing themselves to eat the soilent greens.
If ppl keep forcing themselves to say "no its ok, its ok!" then SE thinks "oh, it must be ok".

I am a SE fanboy, but i am also forcing myself to be objective.
You can tell that half the people defending the madness are forcing themselves to find logic in it and the other half and too proud or blind to admit that maybe its not whats best for the game.
We complain because we care.


No, we're choosing. No one can force anyone to do anything, whatsoever. Everything is a choice, weighted based on the perceived consequences of the action.
____________________________
http://www.pbpmap.com/ - play by post rpgs at their best!


#29 Oct 04 2010 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
I hope they never add an AH. It reminds me of Ragnarok and UO: the way people had to actually look for things, make friends, or just do everything themselves. I'm only a rank 11 LNC, but I managed to make enough parts and buy the rest to get the next weapon. And in a few levels, I'll do the same thing. There are obvious places that people who possess the items you're seeking hang out (ahem, the guilds in each city).

I'm not just defending the choice Square has made; I'm applauding it. It'll weed out the idiots early on, making it all the more enjoyable for myself and those that are having a good time.
____________________________
FFXIV: Ponce Jones (Mysidia)

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/rc/character/status?cicuid=4055014
#30 Oct 04 2010 at 4:02 PM Rating: Good
33 posts
Whether you are forcing yourself, or choosing to find logic in, say; The sky being yellow.
Does not make it correct.

None of you tools can provide any logic or reasoning behind why you think this is better. Just saying "oh it builds a better community" doesnt make it true. Theres still gonna be ***** and asshats. If there is an AH people are not going to stop talking to other people altogether.

Case in point: FFXI had the best community, hands down, end of discussion. It also had an AH. So stop kidding yourself.

Hunting through 200 bazaars with a clunky GUI just to find some piece of crap equip that you want is in no way enjoyable, entertaining or worthwhile.

We do not buy a game and pay a monthly subscription to be annoyed, frustrated, bored and disappointed.
Most of our lives are like that, we play these games to get away from it.



#31 Oct 04 2010 at 4:34 PM Rating: Decent
TheMightyX wrote:
Whether you are forcing yourself, or choosing to find logic in, say; The sky being yellow.
Does not make it correct.

None of you tools can provide any logic or reasoning behind why you think this is better. Just saying "oh it builds a better community" doesnt make it true. Theres still gonna be ***** and asshats. If there is an AH people are not going to stop talking to other people altogether.

Case in point: FFXI had the best community, hands down, end of discussion. It also had an AH. So stop kidding yourself.

Hunting through 200 bazaars with a clunky GUI just to find some piece of crap equip that you want is in no way enjoyable, entertaining or worthwhile.

We do not buy a game and pay a monthly subscription to be annoyed, frustrated, bored and disappointed.
Most of our lives are like that, we play these games to get away from it.





What annoys, frustrates, bores and disappoints someone is different from one person to the next. If you don't like it, walk away. It doesn't matter what reason people give for liking the current system. As long as they like it, who cares? It's not your money and has no impact on your life unless you choose to play.

Why play a game if you want it changed so much anyway? If it's bad, people won't play it and it won't make any money, and either it'll shut down or they will make changes. In that case, you've won and can throw yourself your own big party where you wear a special hat and frame screenshots of all the forum complaining you did during your oh-so-righteous crusade.
____________________________
FFXIV: Ponce Jones (Mysidia)

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/rc/character/status?cicuid=4055014
#32 Oct 04 2010 at 4:41 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
378 posts
"Auction house is easy mode." ZOMG! FANBOIS R DUM!

Congratulations, you have no ******* clue how to read and absorb information.

Auction house IS easy mode. But for what Square enix wants this game to become they don't want a community that relies on something like an auction house.

I am not defending the market ward system because it is quite a piece of **** right now. That doesn't mean this game needs an auction house. And if you can't play this game without an auction house then I don't think many of us are going to be sad at your leaving.

To go back to my analogy about combat in ffxi. How many MMOs forced people to join groups to gain exp? It was a drastically different take on how MMOs are played, and it forced people to join the community in some fashion. The people who weren't willing to do that didn't enjoy the game.

That is exactly the same scenario we are in right now with Auction houses. Right now there isn't one. That forces you to rely on other people or grind everything yourself. If you grind everything yourself you probably are not going to enjoy this game.

I am not saying this is the best idea ever.

I'm saying it's forcing people to play in a different manner, to overcome challenges they aren't used to facing in an MMO, and if you aren't willing to do that then the problem is with you, not with the lack of auction houses.
____________________________

Retainer: Ferthmart
FFXI: Ferth - Cerbereus Nee Hades Nee Leviathan.
#33 Oct 04 2010 at 4:45 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
20 posts
F3rth wrote:
"Auction house is easy mode." ZOMG! FANBOIS R DUM!

Congratulations, you have no @#%^ing clue how to read and absorb information.

Auction house IS easy mode. But for what Square enix wants this game to become they don't want a community that relies on something like an auction house.

I am not defending the market ward system because it is quite a piece of sh*t right now. That doesn't mean this game needs an auction house. And if you can't play this game without an auction house then I don't think many of us are going to be sad at your leaving.

To go back to my analogy about combat in ffxi. How many MMOs forced people to join groups to gain exp? It was a drastically different take on how MMOs are played, and it forced people to join the community in some fashion. The people who weren't willing to do that didn't enjoy the game.

That is exactly the same scenario we are in right now with Auction houses. Right now there isn't one. That forces you to rely on other people or grind everything yourself. If you grind everything yourself you probably are not going to enjoy this game.

I am not saying this is the best idea ever.

I'm saying it's forcing people to play in a different manner, to overcome challenges they aren't used to facing in an MMO, and if you aren't willing to do that then the problem is with you, not with the lack of auction houses.


That's great an all, but let's see how that translates into 2010 MMO standards. Releasing a MMO in 2010 that plays like it's the year 2000 may be the wake up call SE needs to survive in this very different MMO market.
#34 Oct 04 2010 at 4:50 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
378 posts
The when the game fails I officially give you the right to say "I told you so."

I am not saying every game should remove their auction houses because its ruining the community. I am saying that for this game square enix wants crafters to form a community.

Just like in ffxi they wanted the players to form a community of martial classes, so they made it severely limiting to not join parties.

You can't make the argument that "ffxi had a great community and an auction house!" because it wasn't a community of crafters it was a community of martial players. the community was so awesome because SE forced people to form groups and join the community.

This community has the same potential but it will be a community of crafters.
____________________________

Retainer: Ferthmart
FFXI: Ferth - Cerbereus Nee Hades Nee Leviathan.
#35 Oct 04 2010 at 4:57 PM Rating: Good
****
9,526 posts
Yeah I can tell you I didn't go hang out at guilds with mats asking folks to craft components for me on FFXI.

Is it more work than an AH? Yes, it is.

But I had a great time wheeling and dealing at the blacksmith guild yesterday.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#36 Oct 04 2010 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
CamouflageNoise wrote:
I hope they never add an AH. It reminds me of Ragnarok and UO: the way people had to actually look for things, make friends, or just do everything themselves. I'm only a rank 11 LNC, but I managed to make enough parts and buy the rest to get the next weapon. And in a few levels, I'll do the same thing. There are obvious places that people who possess the items you're seeking hang out (ahem, the guilds in each city).

I'm not just defending the choice Square has made; I'm applauding it. It'll weed out the idiots early on, making it all the more enjoyable for myself and those that are having a good time.


What was crafting like in UO? Did mobs drop gear or mats that had to be crafted?
____________________________
Die! Die die die. die die die die, die die. - Scarlet Briar
#37 Oct 04 2010 at 5:10 PM Rating: Decent
33 posts
Wait f3rth, are u saying that ffxi was solely a community of martial players and not crafters at all?

hmm.. so there was no crafting going on whatsoever? no one crafting anything at all..?
It also wasnt a great community because they "forced us to join groups".
But i find it hard to argue with close-minded people.

The fact remains that having an auction house would not hurt ones ability to craft. In fact it would aid in their ability to craft, as crafters could then more easily sell their crafts and buy new mats more conveniently.

Tell me this, in the market wards; how do you know the item you've just found in someones bazaar is not overpriced?

You dont. You have to search through 100 other peoples bazaars until you find the same item and see what they are selling it for.

That is not innovative, that is ridiculous. Its just a ploy to increase the amount of time you have to spend in game, therefor extending the length of your subscription.

You cant you see that and you are happy eating the soilent greens.
#38 Oct 04 2010 at 5:19 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
Maybe the gold farmers should change their operations. I'd love to hire a Chinese kid to handle my market shopping every day. How much is a real live Chinese retainer cost?


Well this is what i sorta did,he's not Chinese he's my little brother.So i can only tell you how much it cost to bribe him $5 bucks and taco bell.

Edited, Oct 4th 2010 7:20pm by SsXTricKeY
____________________________

#39 Oct 04 2010 at 5:21 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
378 posts
I like how I am the one labeled closed minded.

I also like that you have no means of defending your point beyond butchering my comments to wedge them into your rebuttals.

Of course there was crafting in ffxi, and naturally there would be a community for the people in ffxi who chose to craft (I wasn't one of them.)

But the majority of the relationships formed in ffxi were done so through parties. How many people did you know who you never ever experienced combat with?

The basic structure of the community in ffxi was formed around the combat system and the party system. I'm not saying there weren't other communities in ffxi any more than I am saying combat classes won't have any communities in ffxiv. My point was that the choice SE made in imposing party play styles went a long way in shaping the community.

I used that example to explain how not having an auction house in this game has the potential to shape how the community grows in this game where crafting is more mainstream. People are forced to interact with each other, to trade and communicate with each other if they want to progress as crafters.

Did I say it was innovative? Did I say it would be a flawless success? You're just putting words in my mouth because you are unable to either comprehend or argue against the points I am actually making.

FFXI was drastically different from a combat/party perspective, ffxiv is drastically different from a crafting perspective. Whether it works or not depends entirely upon players abilities to adapt to it and their willingness to make it work.

Soilent green is people...


and it tastes like chicken.
____________________________

Retainer: Ferthmart
FFXI: Ferth - Cerbereus Nee Hades Nee Leviathan.
#40 Oct 04 2010 at 5:46 PM Rating: Excellent
33 posts
So I see someone said "AH is easy mode"

I want to point something out...

The boarding for the boat ride has been made so easy that you dont even have to wait and walk on the boat, you just stand on the docks and you appear on the boat.. easier than XI

Being able to solo most of the content and equip multiple ways of healing yourself opposed to XI where soloing is an afterthought and not very fast/easy... easier than XI

Gear options are much broader, with the exception of a few pieces of gear and weapons almost any class can wear any level gear... easier than XI

Being able to teleport around the map with the use of anima opposed to only a couple of jobs being able to do that in XI... easier than XI

No exp loss when you die so the grind from 2 hours of work isnt for nothing.. easier than XI

As you see the list is already long but I could go on and on..

point is.. why would the AH be the one thing that they dont make easier considering this game has been shifted more towards casual than XI ever was?
#41 Oct 04 2010 at 6:03 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
378 posts
Boarding the boat: the ferry ride is 10 to 15 minutes where you have absolutely nothing to do. SE recognizing that and allowing players to register their name for the ride and then go afk without fear of missing the boat is nothing but courtesy.

Teleporting is a trade off. How many people complain about how little anima we get? Yeah it's nice to port someplace but there are still people dissatisfied that they can't do it all the time for no penalty.

Being able to gain rank as a melee character solo is not necessarily easier... it just means if you only have a little bit of time to play you can hop on and do a leve or three and atleast feel like you made some progress.

no exp loss when you die, but now items have durability and when you die, no matter what you are weakened for a certain period of time and your items take a hit. I honestly don't even see how losing exp in this game would work. It would be incredibly complicated to find some system of losing rank or experience... maybe they just didn't want to deal with it... or maybe they wanted a different game mechanic than ffxi had.

None of these bear any relation to anything else on this list.

**** this game has durability when ffxi didn't. that's not easier.

The point of my arguments about the auction house is not to convince everyone that not having them is the best idea ever. I just want to point out that its not the end of the world that we don't have them.

The game is by no means perfect and I would much rather they put the time into fixing the actual problems the game has rather than to try to appease the people that are unwilling to try and figure out how a game without an auction house runs.

To use your own arguments against you... rather than saying all those things are easier than they were in ffxi, I could just say they are different than they were in ffxi... But that's a specious argument.

The game is what it is. If you can't play an MMO without an auction house you might look for a different game to play.
____________________________

Retainer: Ferthmart
FFXI: Ferth - Cerbereus Nee Hades Nee Leviathan.
#42 Oct 04 2010 at 6:03 PM Rating: Good
***
1,612 posts
FeanaroOnPhoenix wrote:
This game is way too easy mode, I can't believe SE would go to such lengths to make it so even my hot pocket can pick up the controller and play. They really need to fix a couple things if this game hopes to remain competitive.

Auto Run, that's gotta go, being able to run without pressing down the forward key the whole time, can you say overpowered, I think we can all agree on this one.

Linkshells are you kidding me SE? Being able to talk to a group of your select friends and buddies you meet throughout the game!? Sheesh, if I wanted this easy mode crap I would've stuck with WoW lol noob game.

Hardware Mouse, okay this is the biggest offender in my book, implementing an easy mode way to click on things reliably without any skill or insane graphics card specs involved is clearly going to drive away a lot of customers, I don't think i'll be renewing my subscription when my free month is up if this isn't fixed.

At least the game got a couple things right, removing the AH adds far more skill to buying items, and selling them, and not being able to invite people if they aren't standing right next to you, or see your party members on your map really helps encourage teamwork.

Please Square, take out the easy mode crap, and make the game take skill to play!
You gave me a good laugh, Feanaro. Rated up.
____________________________
"Abashed, the devil stood, and felt how awful goodness is..."
#43 Oct 04 2010 at 6:05 PM Rating: Good
**
394 posts
I'm pretty much in agreement with everything F3rth is saying. I don't know if I'd necessarily call an AH "easy mode", and I can certainly see why people are clamoring for the tried-and-true method, but it's kind of a knee-jerk reaction to the current system being such a failure. While the retainer system leaves a lot to be desired, it's not as game-breakingly eye-gougingly horrible as some people are describing. It needs improvements, moreso than people might think possible by SE, but that doesn't automatically mean we need an auction house.

An AH brings its own host of problems to the table, and while it would be nice and easy from a player's perspective, there's a lot going on that I'd rather see avoided. It's not like XI didn't have bazaars and the Rolanberry Mall and all that, those worked just fine and a lot of people honestly had fun browsing around during their travels just to see if there was anything special for sale. SE simply misjudged why it worked, implemented it poorly, and didn't really give us any alternatives or a chance to see our voiced concerns taken seriously.

We were plenty forgiving of the system during beta because we knew it was a beta, and had assumed it would be addressed by retail; it wasn't, and that has left a bitter taste in our mouths. However, just because SE has dropped the ball in terms of timing and releasing an unfinished product to the masses, that doesn't mean they aren't going to adjust the system or listen to our feedback. Too many people fling around "SE never listens to its customers," and then if anyone says anything otherwise the instant reaction is "You're just a white-knighting SE fanboy!" No, we're not. SE would not be a successful company if they ignored us. Many changes people have clamored for in XI are implemented in XIV. A lot of things aren't, but that doesn't mean SE is just doing what it wants without any regard to what we're saying whatsoever. XIV has showcased plenty of changes throughout the alpha and beta phases which are direct responses to tester feedback, and while there's still much left to work on, naysayers are crying doomsday because the devs simply aren't capable of delivering instant satisfaction for everything that needs to be addressed.

Sure, they're releasing patches and fixing very small issues right now, leading some people to think they aren't working on the big problems at all, but don't you think the big problems would naturally take longer to solve? If they didn't release these small patches, people would whine that SE isn't working fast enough and isn't keeping in touch with their customers and blah blah blah. Of course they're listening to what we're saying, they couldn't honestly expect to make money if they didn't. In every single interview about FFXIV, Tanaka and the devs have constantly said that they made such and such decisions because fans asked for such and such. And if we don't get an AH, that's not because SE isn't listening to its customers; they did not intend to have an AH because they had a different system in mind. It simply didn't work out, and some poor marketing decisions were made. Our job is to tell them that the system isn't satisfactory, and they will react appropriately. End of story.
#44 Oct 04 2010 at 6:08 PM Rating: Good
*
241 posts
This game is way too easy mode, I can't believe SE would go to such lengths to make it so even my hot pocket can pick up the controller and play. They really need to fix a couple things if this game hopes to remain competitive.

Auto Run, that's gotta go, being able to run without pressing down the forward key the whole time, can you say overpowered, I think we can all agree on this one.

Linkshells are you kidding me SE? Being able to talk to a group of your select friends and buddies you meet throughout the game!? Sheesh, if I wanted this easy mode crap I would've stuck with WoW lol noob game.

Hardware Mouse, okay this is the biggest offender in my book, implementing an easy mode way to click on things reliably without any skill or insane graphics card specs involved is clearly going to drive away a lot of customers, I don't think i'll be renewing my subscription when my free month is up if this isn't fixed.

At least the game got a couple things right, removing the AH adds far more skill to buying items, and selling them, and not being able to invite people if they aren't standing right next to you, or see your party members on your map really helps encourage teamwork.

Please Square, take out the easy mode crap, and make the game take skill to play!
____________________________
There once was a tiger striped cat. This cat died a million deaths and was reborn a million times and was owned by various people who he didn't care for. The cat wasn't afraid to die... One day, the cat was a free cat, a stray cat. He met a white female cat, and the two cats spent their days happily together. Years passed, and the white cat died of old age. The tiger striped cat cried a million times, and then died. It never
came back to life.
#45 Oct 04 2010 at 6:31 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Just going to repost what I said a few days ago:

Quote:
I'm fairly certain they said that they were just holding off on the AH, and will add it later. They said they didn't want to add one yet because once they add it, the economy will become defined. My guess is that they intend to implement it with consideration to the PS3 release. Remember all the ******** from the NA players when they logged in to FFXI only to find that everything already had a price in the AH, and then again with the PS2, and the 360, and the Europeans? You can certainly make an argument that it's a bad decision, but I would bet high dollars that their intention was to prevent establishing the economy before their main subscription bases had access to the game.

This is just a quick fix for now, so chill.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#46 Oct 04 2010 at 8:33 PM Rating: Excellent
33 posts
In response AH is not "easy mode" its a system that allows you quick access to finding items.

I will defend other aspects of this game but one of my main complaints is no AH. Between travel time and IRL time running from place to place with gil to spend but no way to find the items its annoying. For me its not a matter of having the money to buy the items its a matter of finding them.

Yes the market system allows for a variety of competitive pricing but it also HURTS the vendors. Putting your NPC in one location across the vast map of this game instead of putting items into an AH database allows for less sales and less growth. For everyone that defends the market system as is then I dont want to hear any complaints about out of date gear or people with items that arent repaired.

If the game wanted to force us all to level every crafting job then why allow us to level combat jobs from the start? Because they want to offer variety and variety in the current market system doesnt work.

There is no easy mode just a sales model that doesnt suit the community as a majority.

Want to know my honest opinion? (cuz I will give it t you anyway) They are using this system to try and control RMTs early on and dont care if they are stabbing the hands of the general player. Thats what I think.
#47klepp6761, Posted: Oct 04 2010 at 11:09 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) cry me a river, no ah is the best thing to ever happen to an mmo. glad squeenix stuck t their guns. remember eq1? probably not or u wouldnt be crying about no ah. What does no ah solve? it solves lack of community, it solves gold farmers, it solves under cutting. what does it promote? efficient usage of time, interdepdancy, tradeing, bartering, a chance at finding a one off good deal, a more fluid economy.
#48 Oct 04 2010 at 11:18 PM Rating: Good
22 posts
klepp6761 wrote:
cry me a river, no ah is the best thing to ever happen to an mmo. glad squeenix stuck t their guns. remember eq1? probably not or u wouldnt be crying about no ah. What does no ah solve? it solves lack of community, it solves gold farmers, it solves under cutting. what does it promote? efficient usage of time, interdepdancy, tradeing, bartering, a chance at finding a one off good deal, a more fluid economy.

thank god, sorry u cant undercut or play the ah to make your $$$, if you dont want to shop for your gear, dont. go adventure. in eq1 the ec commons tunnel was the livest place on the server(s). everyone was there auctioning their goods and trading up or trying to make $$ or barteer into that good sword they were lookin for. the only place square failed was throwing the kids a bone w/ the bots. not much trading going on when they allow bots to do your selling. they should have made people choose when to sell vs when to adventure. choices choices.

bless their hearts but they will be putting in that segregated market system where all the bots w/ weapons can go to one area, armor the next, craft mats the next... so it wont be as bad for ya's <3


You best be trollin'
____________________________
chewy?
#49 Oct 04 2010 at 11:25 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
92 posts
While you're on the whole AH kick, I'm surprised that you haven't brought up a mailbox or a bank. I mean, isn't this supposed to be WoW on Crack? /sarcasm

I can live without an AH. A mail system would be nice, but not necessary at this time either. The important part, is that they finish content before they release it on PS3. They have 6 months to make 'end game' survivable past the one year marker. The PC people are going to be fueling the materials and crafting supplies for the new PS3 players, as well as they will be the ones teaming up and playing with them to help out and such.

I mean, here's what the real scoop is.

The game is not done yet. They released it to the PC because they needed a little income from subs, and they also needed to do more beta tests and work out the kinks before PS3 Release. Right now, you can level and craft and figure things out. That's it.

No one is doing social things, because they're all too busy leveling their characters and crafting, because they're expecting some big patch soon with 'end game raids' etc. I honestly don't think we're going to see it until the PS3 version is released. All we can hope, is that the people who are playing in their trials, continue on for 6 months. Honestly, when people join on PS3, the game is going to start all over again. There's going to be thousands of new players, and people are going to see a little bit more life breathed into the game. Just give it time people. :)
____________________________
-[ If it doesn't hurt, you're not doing it right ]-
#50 Oct 04 2010 at 11:32 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
751 posts
Can I recommend craft parties.

No-one who has played FFXI would argue that getting into a party of martial jobs wasnt fun. If you played FFXI - you had to party to kill mobs and get exp.

SE have taken this one step further in FFXIV.

If you get together into a party of 6 crafters of similar level (at around level 10-12), between the members of the party you can start to knock out some serious equipment. It was SE's intention to create a community, crafting forces this.

Then take the items you have crafted and go to the relevant guild. If you are making shields, stand around in the Glad guild and sell them.

I met a player a few days ago who claimed to have accumulated over 2m gill doing exactly this. I havent tried it but I understand that this is what SE want us to do.
____________________________
FFXIV: Crafty Hallie, Ultros





#51 Oct 04 2010 at 11:34 PM Rating: Excellent
*
147 posts
klepp6761 wrote:
What does no ah solve? efficient usage of time



lol how is it efficient usage of time to click 100+ laggy retainers?

im after a new weapon for my THM, i have tried shouting for one but to no avail, so off i went to the market wards clicking every person with a bag i could find.

so 2 hours later i am still without a weapon >.<

efficient usage of time? gimme a frikking break lol

« Previous 1 2
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 20 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (20)