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Conjurers and excessive rulingFollow

#1 Oct 04 2010 at 11:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Everywhere I go, I see Conjurer's completely obliterating mobs. Like, insanely hard mobs. They have all the buffs so early, that let them defend/heal/attack at such a humorously gargantuan rate, that it makes me wonder why anyone would play anything else.

Thoughts on Conjurer and Thaumaturge:

Basically, you have all the buffs and heals, and then all the debuffs and DoT's to grab aggro. I really think that most of these players are just ranking up Conjurer to do rank 20 leve's for the time being, and to do a lot of their solo killing/grinding for materials.

I think when they start to get into the level 35+ mobs, that they'll need to group up, and that is when other classes will shine. But for now, I'm having a really hard time trying to believe that anyone would not want to level conjurer and/or thaumaturge, even if just for buffs/debuffs at low levels.

Anyone else have anything to add?
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#2 Oct 04 2010 at 11:42 PM Rating: Good
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Well, I can't really tell you you're wrong.

During Open Beta I got sick of competing for mobs in the desert around Ul'dah, so I started exping off red con Cactuars. With Stoneskin, Shock Spikes, and elemental nukes I could kill them easily before they got enough TP for 1000 needles (I had about 500 HP at the time).

I also solod my way through all the level 20 Guildleves as a level 13 Con, though I think some other classes are currently able to pull that off as well.
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#3 Oct 04 2010 at 11:45 PM Rating: Decent
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grouping as mage is super annoying tho.... my buffs usually won't hit the people I want it to, my heals won't even go off because im not facing the target. The secondary targetting icon (that you get after you choose "cure" for example) doesn't follow the same rule with up/down directional keys so targetting specific PT members to heal them is extremely hard......

all in all... I have a much easier time farming as DoW. faster, funner, easier.

Farming wise, Con might be able to take on tougher mobs, but i'd rather kill 5 easy mobs for easy 3-6 shards each than trying to take down tougher ones with a lot of time.
#4 Oct 04 2010 at 11:53 PM Rating: Good
There's nothing Conjurers and Thaumaturges get at early levels that can't be equipped and used to great effect on other combat classes (excluding their major MP regen abilities). My Gladiator with Stoneskin, Shock Spikes, Cure and Second Wind + Phalanx/Spinstroke spam is devastating. I don't envision myself soloing cactaurs at rank 13 because my damage output is still not on par with a caster class, but I definitely don't suffer against orange/low red mobs.
#5 Oct 04 2010 at 11:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah the magic classes can be frustrating because of no easy targeting. I am currently level 11 THM and just find the melee classes less frustrating to play. I do like the abilities of the mages though so I equip some of them on my pugilist.
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#6 Oct 04 2010 at 11:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Le'ts not start summoning the nerf-bat already please.

Fact is I just got my first guildmark ability from a certain DoW, and it is a big game changer. I can now solo yellows quickly and with relative ease. And that's just with one basic Guild ability.

Point is, calling 'overpowered' this early in the levels is always pointless. The key is that at the end, we'll probably all be uber in our own ways. Why start taking away the fun from others already, it'll come back and bite you in the *** when they take away your class' fun down the line, cuz you're stronger than the nerfed mages.

I agree CON can take on insane stuff. Does it interfere with my fun at all? No. I know where to go when I need some powerful help.

Edited, Oct 5th 2010 2:00am by RattyBatty
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#7 Oct 05 2010 at 12:08 AM Rating: Decent
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
There's nothing Conjurers and Thaumaturges get at early levels that can't be equipped and used to great effect on other combat classes (excluding their major MP regen abilities). My Gladiator with Stoneskin, Shock Spikes, Cure and Second Wind + Phalanx/Spinstroke spam is devastating. I don't envision myself soloing cactaurs at rank 13 because my damage output is still not on par with a caster class, but I definitely don't suffer against orange/low red mobs.


Ya, it is crazy. Why wouldn't you. Any other class should at least hit Conjurer 8, because you will get Shock Spikes.

Quote:
Le'ts not start summoning the nerf-bat already please.


This thread isn't really a nerf bat, but a point to be made, that they do have a lot of really pre-10 abilities that every class should have. Why wouldn't you? Aurelius is a prime example. s/he loves their gladiator, but has also picked up the buffs/heals from conjurer to support themselves.
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#8 Oct 05 2010 at 12:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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With decent gears, DoW can kick **** yellow/orange as well. Reason why people may feel DoM overpowered at this stage is the lack of gears on the market, many many people are still using gears way under their own level. It might also be the low Physical level relatively to DoW rank as well, as killing mobs is never a great way to gain physical level (Take killing mobs for an instance, you get 200-300 SP per kill and like 400 EXP per kill, you're gaining SP much faster than EXP relatively. Look at crafting, I get 350 SP and 1,300 EXP per synth, and I believe that's how the SP/EXP gain should be, proportionately). Once you get decently outfited and appropriate physical level you will be able to kick **** that annoying yellow/orange mobs too without DoM cross class, and you see them mages less godly even by a tiny bit.
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#9 Oct 05 2010 at 12:11 AM Rating: Decent
It's funny, I'm leveling CON not because I can nuke everything into oblivion, but because I like the magic types. You wanna know something funnier? I tend to use Spirit Dart more than any elemental spells minus the buffs, and apart from Cure, I mostly just use Shock Spikes.
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#10 Oct 05 2010 at 12:15 AM Rating: Decent
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The One and Only SamusKnight wrote:
It's funny, I'm leveling CON not because I can nuke everything into oblivion, but because I like the magic types. You wanna know something funnier? I tend to use Spirit Dart more than any elemental spells minus the buffs, and apart from Cure, I mostly just use Shock Spikes.


Ya, it's wierd. Buff spikes as THM, and use Phantom Dart, Damnation on every Cooldown, and Sacrifice. Slow and/or Bio and you can take down some pretty hefty mobs. Taking on Puk Hatchlings and Dodo's as rank 8 Conjurer was really wierd. Couldn't do it as a Rank 8 Thaumaturge.
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#11 Oct 05 2010 at 12:18 AM Rating: Good
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I must be doing something wrong (maybe it's my level 1 gear?)

At level 10, I was able to kill a dodo, but I was left with 46 health lol...

I need to look for a conjurer strat guide or something as I obviously have my points wrong somewhere and/or using the wrong rotation to attack..

If someone wants to point me in the right direction, feel free :)
#12 Oct 05 2010 at 12:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Tanstalas1 wrote:
I must be doing something wrong (maybe it's my level 1 gear?)

At level 10, I was able to kill a dodo, but I was left with 46 health lol...

I need to look for a conjurer strat guide or something as I obviously have my points wrong somewhere and/or using the wrong rotation to attack..

If someone wants to point me in the right direction, feel free :)


Keep shock spikes up. If you get put to sleep, you have to wait till he hits you to wake up, have a heal ready just in case.

Use Your #1 attack and alternate between that and/or a spell of some sort to wear him down. Just watch your health. Using a heal at the right time is key to farming them, as you will probably be only down 100-200 health when it's dead, and you will leave active stance, and find another one just as you get either full health or close to it.
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#13 Oct 05 2010 at 12:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Kardall wrote:
Tanstalas1 wrote:
I must be doing something wrong (maybe it's my level 1 gear?)

At level 10, I was able to kill a dodo, but I was left with 46 health lol...

I need to look for a conjurer strat guide or something as I obviously have my points wrong somewhere and/or using the wrong rotation to attack..

If someone wants to point me in the right direction, feel free :)


Keep shock spikes up. If you get put to sleep, you have to wait till he hits you to wake up, have a heal ready just in case.

Use Your #1 attack and alternate between that and/or a spell of some sort to wear him down. Just watch your health. Using a heal at the right time is key to farming them, as you will probably be only down 100-200 health when it's dead, and you will leave active stance, and find another one just as you get either full health or close to it.


I must not have put points into the right places, think I will re-allocate into VIT, INT and PIE.. ***** MND

Now I kept VIT, INT, MND and PIE pretty equal - and on the element side of things I have fire and lightning at 46 and everything else around 30, maybe I should just focus on 2 elements so that fire and lightning would be 50ish?
#14 Oct 05 2010 at 12:41 AM Rating: Decent
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You're going to want to keep mnd since that controls how much mp you get and consequentially controls how much trance will give you since it gives you 50% of your total mana back.
#15 Oct 05 2010 at 1:33 AM Rating: Decent
Tanstalas1 wrote:
I must be doing something wrong (maybe it's my level 1 gear?)

At level 10, I was able to kill a dodo, but I was left with 46 health lol...

I need to look for a conjurer strat guide or something as I obviously have my points wrong somewhere and/or using the wrong rotation to attack..

If someone wants to point me in the right direction, feel free :)


Dodos are easy at rank 10 if you make avoiding Rancid Belch your priority. If you're just spamming abilities and get locked into an animation sequence when it starts charging Belch, you're boned. If, on the other hand, you can move around to the side or behind the dodo as soon as it starts charging Rancid Belch, you'll have enough time to toss a Cure on yourself if needed and often get in an attack or two after while the dodo is burping in the wrong direction and then standing there wondering where the **** out went before it turns to attack again.

Most mobs that use big nasty attacks are like that...if you can get out of the way when they start charging the attack, it will miss. Marmot Somersault is a bit too fast to avoid, but Puk Backflip can be fully avoided. It just takes a little patience and a cool head to time your attacks around theirs so you don't get stuck and unable to move when they start loading up to whallop you.
#16 Oct 05 2010 at 1:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, you CAN avoid attacks like this... if not for lag. More often than not I am completely behind the monster and it spins around and attacks me with the attack anyway.
#17 Oct 05 2010 at 1:48 AM Rating: Decent
shadowofclarence wrote:
Yeah, you CAN avoid attacks like this... if not for lag. More often than not I am completely behind the monster and it spins around and attacks me with the attack anyway.


I avoid the vast majority of belches and backflips. The only time I don't is if I'm locked into an animation of some sort when they start charging it. If you move as soon as it starts charging, you'll avoid. If the mob turns and you get hit, it means that you took too long from the time the animation first started indicating they were getting ready to use the attack until you got out of the way. You only have a second or two...not the full duration of the charging animation. Lag or not, once you know that's how it works, if you still can't get out of the way it's your own **** fault.
#18 Oct 05 2010 at 2:25 AM Rating: Decent
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went from good to decent because i mention lag? lol whatever.

non the less, lag can cause you to miss evading some attacks like I said.
Also take note of the type of attacks that monsters use. Some attacks ARE heavily elementally based. Take ladybugs for instance. It looks like they are spitting poison on you, but when I have shell up i take 60 damage instead of over 200 :/

Alot of people say get con up to shock spikes, but shell and protect are AWESOME on my THM.

Also to what others said about DOM vs DOW. The only reason I dont really mess around with the DOW as much is because of lack of available weaponry and armor. I refuse to sift through hours of bazaars to find a lvl 6 sword, armor, and shield. I don't doubt that there are others who feel the same.
#19 Oct 05 2010 at 5:14 AM Rating: Decent
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I got CON to 8 yesterday for Stoneskin/Shock Spikes.

I'd say Stoneskin isn't worth it while soloing. I'd probably use it on group Leves or difficult leves because it can soak AoE - but a Orange/Yellow Dodo rips Stoneskin off me in one or two hits max.

I prefer to just Punishing Barbs every other mob and have Sacrifice/Cure on my bar to spam heal if I start to take too much damage. I keep Shock Spikes up and spam Phantom Dart/Damnation until whatever I'm fighting falls down. Sometimes I'll Scourge for the Umbral down but I like to conserve mana as much as possible.

Punishing Barbs is really where it's at. I'm not sure how well it works when it's a sub-skill - but as THM main I can watch stuff kill itself from Shock Spike/Barb damage.

I'm only rank 12 though - been spending most of my time on BOT and ALC.
#20 Oct 05 2010 at 5:25 AM Rating: Good
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shadowofclarence wrote:
went from good to decent because i mention lag? lol whatever.

non the less, lag can cause you to miss evading some attacks like I said.
Also take note of the type of attacks that monsters use. Some attacks ARE heavily elementally based. Take ladybugs for instance. It looks like they are spitting poison on you, but when I have shell up i take 60 damage instead of over 200 :/

Alot of people say get con up to shock spikes, but shell and protect are AWESOME on my THM.

Also to what others said about DOM vs DOW. The only reason I dont really mess around with the DOW as much is because of lack of available weaponry and armor. I refuse to sift through hours of bazaars to find a lvl 6 sword, armor, and shield. I don't doubt that there are others who feel the same.


your right about that, while using con, i found my self fighting for dear life cause of the lag delay, i would find my self in the red before cure spell would finally take effect and i would be pause during casting. lag delays kills in this game for sure.
#21 Oct 05 2010 at 5:38 AM Rating: Default
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EmotionBlues wrote:

I'm only rank 12 though - been spending most of my time on BOT


he admited it banz him se

sryusly tho i got perma banned from ffxi because someone had the same forum name on a "hacking forum" as my login name.. took me several days of complaining that i have no control of the millions of ppl on the interwebs or what screen names they use ... after almost a week of logic based emails and phonecalls i got my perma ban turned into a 72 hour suspension with a "we will be closely monitoring your account for malicious activities"

wait no this happened on wow..... nevah mind
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#22 Oct 05 2010 at 7:25 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm dual leveling both CON and THM atm, which is very redundant and also a little redundant at times. Theoretically, I have a huge ******* of spells at my disposal. But with a very limited number of action points (@ Rank 12), I can only equip and use so many. Stoneskin makes you pretty invincible at lower ranks, but is utterly useless vs. post Rank 10 mobs.

Another problem is that using skills from another class affects your ability to earn skill points: if I'm on CON and I use THM skills (or vice-versa) I've never gotten a single SP from using my non-class skill. I've seen other ZAM posters say that you can earn skill points from earning other jobs abilities but I personally have never seen a single skill point earned that way. Just my personal experience.....

Another problem is building a balanced character and distributing your attribute points to bolster INT (spell dmg); MND (mp pool); PIE (magic acc); VIT (some hp, because CON/THM can take about 3 hits before we die). Casters have a lot more stats to worry about and consider.

Targeting anything, friend or foe, is a disaster; so fighting multiple mobs or trying to heal in a party is usually a trainwreck. Party skill point distribution glitch really screws casters too (if you heal AND do dmg in a party of 3+, you get nothing, you have to do one or the other in a party setting to have a chance at any SP).

Don't get me wrong...I've taken down some big mobs solo that other jobs probably can't. I've also died to wharf rats as a result of a lag spike or targeting issue. Sometimes I wish I could just stand toe-to-toe with a mob and just "1" away...

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#23 Oct 05 2010 at 8:01 AM Rating: Good
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I played healer classes in FFXI, and solo'ing was very slow. Sure, they were still capable of killing tough mobs, especially rdm... But they didn't kill them fast... My bro who played a thf would absolutely destroy things solo, and watch giant chunks of hp vanish via dancing edge... I had to pick and whittle away slivers, stopping to recast a ton of buffs all the time.

Don't get me wrong though, I do mainly prefer healing, and I accept the general weaker attack abilities as part of the territory... But I must say, it's a nice change of pace to not solo at a tenth the rate of other classes... Still, I do prefer to heal in a group, and that's mostly what I've been doing on my conjurer so far, which is 18 atm.
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#24 Oct 05 2010 at 8:58 AM Rating: Good
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Fact is I just got my first guildmark ability from a certain DoW, and it is a big game changer. I can now solo yellows quickly and with relative ease. And that's just with one basic Guild ability.


Which guildmark ability was a big game changer for you?
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