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FFXIV = Crafting TycoonFollow

#1 Oct 05 2010 at 3:14 AM Rating: Good
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I tried. I really tried to give this game the benefit of the doubt, seeing as how my husband and I played FFXI for five years and enjoyed it thoroughly. But this game doesn't focus on community play (c'mon it is an MMO). It doesn't even focus on adventuring. I mean, many things were implemented to restrict DoW and DoM. The 3+ party bug which discourages fighting any high level mob too hard for 2 people. Partying is discouraged period with the inconsistent and unequal exp and skill points gains for each person. Discouraging travel to new areas because either 1. you're not high enough level to survive the mobs in the paths (because your level is restricted by fatigue system) 2. it takes too long (no chocobo or airship and slow-regenerating anima). And as if experiencing wasn't frustrating enough, with the casting lag and mob randomly regen'ing HP and did I mention poor party logistics, they decide to throw in the durability factor to further restrict DoW and DoM.

Could they not implement a better system given what they learned from FFXI?? The premise of any RPG is killing mobs and upgrading equip to better kill harder mobs. Everything else should only be added to enhance this premise, not overshadow it. FFXIV, however, might as well be one of those tycoon games, "Crafting Tycoon." Because in order to continue fighting mobs, you have to keep your gear repaired. And in order to do that, you either need to make gil to pay the exorbitant repair NPC fees, which will require either doing leves or farming which further degrade your gear or selling products you can craft. Or you can repair your gear yourself, but that requires leveling at least three crafts (weapon, armor, accessories) all to the same or higher level as your fighting class. But why should you be cornered into crafting in an RPG? And even if you were okay with crafting, why should it take up at least 75% of your playtime when you could be out in the fields killing stuff like you enjoyed so much in other RPG's? I mean, I was culinarian 95/clothcraft 60 in FFXI so I gave crafting a chance in this game. I knew it would take time and research. But crafting in this game is too much.

It should be an *optional* way to build your character but in this game, so many crafts are intertwined with other crafts through ingredients that to achieve the goal of being a self sufficient gear repairman would require you to be in an endless cycle of leveling crafting. If you look at some recipes, you'll know what I mean. There's always that one ingredient you need that's made by a high level craft different than yours and it's not sold by an NPC and there's no auction house (I was even willing to deal with that shortcoming, btw.) But even if finding ingredients wasn't a problem, the sheer slowness at which one synth is completed just makes the crafting aspect very depressing for those who didn't get this game to be mainly a crafter. I tried leveling the DoH classes needed to make/repair my gear but I soon realized that I would be spending most of my playtime in a sweatshop. Think about it. Your character most likely will be parked near the synth support guy along with all your "factory comrades." You're basically not allowed to talk to others. Within a certain level range, you're repeating the same thoughtless actions over and over again to mass produce the items that chairman SE has dictated you to create for the good of Eorzea. Instead they could have made more items available through NPC's at not so inflated prices. I'm not asking for anything fancy. Just basic level-appropriate gear, if you don't want to touch crafting.

Anyway, I'm not sure what to do now. It's really disappointing as my husband and I spent $3000 on new rigs to play this game for the next few years. But seeing as how it's more craft based than fighting based, and I don't want to craft the way it's implemented in this game, it seems like a waste of money to play or not to play. Where is that miracle patch???
#3 Oct 05 2010 at 6:57 AM Rating: Good
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You can't compare 11 at launch to 14 at launch. 14 should at a minimum have the same features and playability that 11 does today.
#4 Oct 05 2010 at 7:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Ravlow wrote:
You can't compare 11 at launch to 14 at launch. 14 should at a minimum have the same features and playability that 11 does today.


It took 8 years to get FFXI where it is today--FFXIV also had the better launch when compared to FFXI. FFXIV hasn't even had its first major update yet.
#5 Oct 05 2010 at 7:04 AM Rating: Good
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Which has nothing to do with my point that you build on that 8 years of success, you don't start over. You take the things that work and improve upon it.

Bugs and server/lag issues are to be expected with a new game. The deviation from a premise that works is not.
#6 Oct 05 2010 at 7:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Ravlow wrote:
Which has nothing to do with my point that you build on that 8 years of success, you don't start over. You take the things that work and improve upon it.

Bugs and server/lag issues are to be expected with a new game. The deviation from a premise that works is not.


Because "Innovation" and "Trying out new things" is bad.

I never played FFXI, but I hear that one of the major issues is that people HAVE to group (Unless you're a beastmaster or a few other classes). To get any progress, you have to put down three hours of time in one sitting.

So as a solution, Squeenix says, "Lets make it solo group friendly, and add free teleports. Have a Fatigue system so the hardcore levelers might only be 2x the casual class' ranks, instead of 3-4x.

FFXIV has plenty of problems, but design philosophy isn't one of them (Unless you're a complete hater of the UI)


For a few of your points:

1. I see durability as a way of forcing people to know crafters. If you're a DoM / DoW specialist, they're telling you to stop being antisocial and go ask people to repair your gear in town.

2. There were no chocobos and airships in release of FFXI, correct? Not only that, but I've heard you need to do a questchain to be able to even use chocobos.

3. You don't actually have to BE a crafter to use the crafter's goods. You just need to know the crafters.

4. There are places for an auction house in state, and a search function / market wards with names are being pushed out of squeenix's office.

5. $3000 for one rig, or even two rigs is overpriced.


It seems to me like you two are just antisocial

Edited, Oct 5th 2010 9:10am by Meowshi
#7 Oct 05 2010 at 7:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Innovation and trying new things is only bad when you don't listen to your customer base in testing. It's pure arrogance to ignore feedback and release a broken game that you know is broken before release.

You think this game is solo friendly? Wow.
#8 Oct 05 2010 at 7:13 AM Rating: Default
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Which complaint came first, "There's no gear all I have is lvl 1 equipment and I'm level 13 QQ Whhhhaaaaa" or "Why is everyone crafting! QQ Whhhhahaaaa"

#10 Oct 05 2010 at 7:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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ylferyf wrote:
...why should you be cornered into crafting in an RPG? And even if you were okay with crafting, why should it take up at least 75% of your playtime when you could be out in the fields killing stuff like you enjoyed so much in other RPG's?
I have one DoW class at 18 and 2 DoH classes at 15 and I DEFINITELY agree with you here.

ylferyf wrote:
If you look at some recipes, you'll know what I mean. There's always that one ingredient you need that's made by a high level craft different than yours and it's not sold by an NPC and there's no auction house...
I think the intention here was 'trickle-down' crafting. High level crafters make items that lower level crafters can skillup on. If the economy was firmly established it might actually work but atm it just prevents you from getting anything until you can make that ONE high level material...

ylferyf wrote:
I tried leveling the DoH classes needed to make/repair my gear but I soon realized that I would be spending most of my playtime in a sweatshop. Think about it. Your character most likely will be parked near the synth support guy along with all your "factory comrades." You're basically not allowed to talk to others. Within a certain level range, you're repeating the same thoughtless actions over and over...
Scary part about that is how it LOOKS like a sweatshop... all the workers down on the floor - no chairs even - hunched over tables endlessly cranking out vamps or straps or whatever while the Pit Boss NPCs stand there and silently forsees everything. I was okay with the game mechanic but the pure imagery of that turned me off 100%.
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#12Suhee, Posted: Oct 05 2010 at 7:22 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You and your husband are retards for spending that kind of money building a rig for one game. Good day lolz
#13 Oct 05 2010 at 7:24 AM Rating: Good
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Look at how much money you make from leves (higher up will give you more.

The npc prices are far from inflated, gil is worth alot less in this game then in FFXI, as it is alot easier to come up with. The economy will take a few months to work itself out, but then I really believe the npc prices for items will be pretty fair.

I have just been selling things to npcs (mainly), and I have well over 500K. To get my first 100K in FFXI took months, so money is a different beast in this game, and you cant compare.

I think it is hard now, but the majority of repair items are easily located, and you can ask for repairs through bazaar, so I believe in a couple months, this durability thing will work itself out, because just around the corner, there is going to be someone who can repair your gear, for alot less then the npc.

Sure crafting is super priority in the game to begin, because there has been noone doing it to build the mass amounts of items for everyone, so everything is in mad demand right now, or not available.

This will work itself out, and if there are problem areas, SE will sort them out, like they continuously did in FFXI.
#14 Oct 05 2010 at 7:26 AM Rating: Good
Quote:
exorbitant repair NPC fees


No, they're really not. You're just seeing the numbers through FFXI's gil value.
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#15 Oct 05 2010 at 7:37 AM Rating: Good
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Jerry the Mule wrote:

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I don't believe you played FFXI for 5 years and really think that SE is just gonna leave everything exactly the way it is. Wow.. probably don't have a husband either.


I laughed out loud at this. I thought I was an a$$hole...I have so much to learn from you Jerry the Mule.

Did we just become best friends?





Edited, Oct 5th 2010 9:37am by DonFlamenco
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#16 Oct 05 2010 at 7:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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JerryTheMule wrote:
you played FFXI for 5 years and obviously didn't play at launch... FFXIV has more content and more things to do then when I walked into FFXI Beta.. Relax come back in 3 years when the game has had time to mature.. THERE WERE TONS OF THINGS JUST LIKE THAT IN FFXI.

Edited, Oct 5th 2010 8:55am by JerryTheMule



I am so sick to read exactly that as excuse for FFXIV. Man wake up, we are in 2010, games are better nowadays. FFXI start was what? 2002? 2001? that was nearly the beginning of that genre, now we are in 2010 "twothousandten".

I really get angry if i read things like "accept the bugs that game has on release because FFXI had same situation when it was released".

Start thinking, stop being a fanboy/girl and accept that people use community forums to write their thoughts about a game what is not worth to pay for because SE closed the beta feedback-forums because they don't want to hear our feedback anymore.

Why should they, we paid. We are not needed to give our feedback to improve a not working game.
#17 Oct 05 2010 at 8:00 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
You and your husband are retards for spending that kind of money building a rig for one game. Good day lolz


Quote:
Anyway, I'm not sure what to do now. It's really disappointing as my husband and I spent $3000 on new rigs to play this game for the next few years.


$3000 on two rigs isn't really that much. They can always use those rigs for other games so the money isn't exactly wasted. Believe it or not there are people out there that make over $200/week and can spend a few thousand without selling their trailor or pickup truck.
#18 Oct 05 2010 at 8:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Aujade wrote:
JerryTheMule wrote:
you played FFXI for 5 years and obviously didn't play at launch... FFXIV has more content and more things to do then when I walked into FFXI Beta.. Relax come back in 3 years when the game has had time to mature.. THERE WERE TONS OF THINGS JUST LIKE THAT IN FFXI.

Edited, Oct 5th 2010 8:55am by JerryTheMule



I am so sick to read exactly that as excuse for FFXIV. Man wake up, we are in 2010


It's 2010, we have far too many issues in the world still including flimsy technology for the "it's 2010" excuse to work. Quake and Unreal released in the 90s? And people still use their engines today?

Year doesn't matter as much as people would like it to matter. ALL MMOs evolve and build up overtime regardless if its 1993 or 2010.

Edited, Oct 5th 2010 10:13am by Jennestia
#19 Oct 05 2010 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
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Totally agree with you Jerry. Only JP have any right to really complain about FFXIV when comparing with FFXI. I am EU and got it on 1st day release in the UK and it already had 2 expansions. I was impressed right away. Hard to get in to thanks to the Dunes..

FFXIV we know it feels like an unfinished product, maybe a tad more then other MMO's but if you go read proper Reviews of the game you hear that other MMOs had a lot of problems. Even the all mighty WoW had a lot of problems on 1st day release with server crashes. Even STO (star trek online) had a ton of glitches/not enough content/server issues.

Want to complain? come back in 12 months.
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#20 Oct 05 2010 at 8:18 AM Rating: Good
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OOO geeezz not another one of "these" threads.....*sigh* If you don't like the game bounce. If you like it go play. I honestly think people come to the boards and complain hoping for someone to convince them otherwise instead of for information. *long sigh*
#21 Oct 05 2010 at 8:23 AM Rating: Good
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Nah people come here to vent. They are expressing their opinions. I think it's amusing when (some) people blame complainers for trolling when it's the non-complainers' intolerance that is the issue.

If you like the game, stop taking complaints so personally. Everyone has the same right to express themselves that you do. Telling them to shut up and quit makes you look worse than them and escalates the tone of the thread.
#22 Oct 05 2010 at 8:29 AM Rating: Default
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It rains too much in this game. Like every five minutes. You'd think that S-E would have some sense and make it rain less often. I also have an issue with the fact that it changes from day to night way too fast. Why can't I get a decent sunset?! Maybe they'll have a "Sunset Patch". But I doubt that. S-E is are a bunch of sunset hating, rain loving bastards.

EDIT: Changed "since" to "sense" :)

Edited, Oct 5th 2010 10:30am by jwhite1083
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#23 Oct 05 2010 at 8:34 AM Rating: Decent
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jwhite1083 wrote:
It rains too much in this game. Like every five minutes. You'd think that S-E would have some sense and make it rain less often. I also have an issue with the fact that it changes from day to night way too fast. Why can't I get a decent sunset?! Maybe they'll have a "Sunset Patch". But I doubt that. S-E is are a bunch of sunset hating, rain loving bastards.

EDIT: Changed "since" to "sense" :)

Edited, Oct 5th 2010 10:30am by jwhite1083


I don't know about you but I've seen plenty sunsets and sunrises. If you started in gridania it does rain a lot in that forest.
#24 Oct 05 2010 at 8:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Jennestia wrote:
jwhite1083 wrote:
It rains too much in this game. Like every five minutes. You'd think that S-E would have some sense and make it rain less often. I also have an issue with the fact that it changes from day to night way too fast. Why can't I get a decent sunset?! Maybe they'll have a "Sunset Patch". But I doubt that. S-E is are a bunch of sunset hating, rain loving bastards.

EDIT: Changed "since" to "sense" :)

Edited, Oct 5th 2010 10:30am by jwhite1083


I don't know about you but I've seen plenty sunsets and sunrises. If you started in gridania it does rain a lot in that forest.


You can't even see the sun in Gridania. This game sucks.

EDIT: Grinadia, Gridania, Whatever.

Edited, Oct 5th 2010 10:40am by jwhite1083
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#25 Oct 05 2010 at 8:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Aujade wrote:
JerryTheMule wrote:
you played FFXI for 5 years and obviously didn't play at launch... FFXIV has more content and more things to do then when I walked into FFXI Beta.. Relax come back in 3 years when the game has had time to mature.. THERE WERE TONS OF THINGS JUST LIKE THAT IN FFXI.

Edited, Oct 5th 2010 8:55am by JerryTheMule



I am so sick to read exactly that as excuse for FFXIV. Man wake up, we are in 2010, games are better nowadays. FFXI start was what? 2002? 2001? that was nearly the beginning of that genre, now we are in 2010 "twothousandten".

I really get angry if i read things like "accept the bugs that game has on release because FFXI had same situation when it was released".

Start thinking, stop being a fanboy/girl and accept that people use community forums to write their thoughts about a game what is not worth to pay for because SE closed the beta feedback-forums because they don't want to hear our feedback anymore.

Why should they, we paid. We are not needed to give our feedback to improve a not working game.



You are missing the point of this argument. Look at FFXI now and compare it to FFXI when it was released. Games like these are intended to GROW over time. They do not just appear with all content in place and have no more updates/expansions. Pick up the game again in a few years if you don't like it now. It will be very different then.

Some of us do like it how it is now and not because we're fanboys. Sure, the game is far from perfect and I can see why you don't like it but the aspects that make it "a not working game" to you don't bother me.
#26 Oct 05 2010 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
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Some MMOs, like EQ2, start out very nicely with very little to no issues. FFXIV looks undone atm
#27 Oct 05 2010 at 9:04 AM Rating: Decent
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pec wrote:
Some MMOs, like EQ2, start out very nicely with very little to no issues. FFXIV looks undone atm


I agree 100%, it does look undone. That doesn't stop me from enjoying the parts that are more well-rounded. I have been spending most of my time crafting which is probably why I see the game in a different light.

Like I said, I can see how people don't like the game because it is incomplete. That doesn't mean the game can't be enjoyed by a large group of people.
#28 Oct 05 2010 at 10:14 AM Rating: Good
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First of all I agree that there needs to be an auction house. However the "new" market wards may suffice if done right. I craft for 2 reasons. 1. I regretted not devoting some time to in in ffxi and 2. I kinda like being able to make stuff for myself and others.

At this point I do things for free for folks if they supply the mats. Selling things for 50-170k to me does not make much since at this point. There will always be time to "get rich" later if you know what I mean. Right now since everyone that is playing or trying to play are "early adopters" you are gonna see things change over the years that the gripes folks are having now will seem silly down the road.

Imagine if you will the future you will see comments in /sh or /p chat saying things like. "Man remember when we had to walk everywhere or save anima due to not having airships and chocobos?" "yeah, that kinda sucked." "I remember when you died you had no choice but to lay there forever or hit return. "Now we have raise and a timer that returns you to your home nation not homepoint." "Yeah it sucked cuz I got killed in Mor Dhona and I dint have but 2 anima and kept dying trying to walk out of there."

Anyway its month 1 guys. Could SE have done better? Sure. But can any of us look back on things in life that we could have done better also? I know we want things now now now. I just think we have to be patient. I for one knew waiting til March was not an option. Also I understand there will be many hiccups to overcome. I have never hit bonus/surplus because I am lvling many things at the same time. If anyone wants to check it out just search my character on lodestone. Sasha Calico Rabanaustre server ( spelling ) but you will find it lol. Happy times in Eorzea to come guys take care.
#29 Oct 05 2010 at 12:31 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm dreading having to start crafting my retainer stays near full already. The wost part is the chat log ,it seems like a sweat shop reading what people are cranking out. I have to turn all chat on or off in this game to block other people crafting at nodes. FF11 had one line to block it, system message blocks out a lot more than crafting. This is still sort of a paid beta so SE will work it out.
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#30 Oct 05 2010 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
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Warmech wrote:
I'm dreading having to start crafting my retainer stays near full already. The wost part is the chat log ,it seems like a sweat shop reading what people are cranking out.


I know! Carpenters don't even get dental. And good luck trying to file with workers comp if you lose a finger.

This game sucks.
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