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Have any of the haters changed their minds?Follow

#1 Oct 05 2010 at 12:09 PM Rating: Good
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We see plenty of 'I've changed my mind about this game' threads, but they're all about early enthusiastic players becoming disenchanted.

Has anyone gone the other way?

I played the open beta, loved it for about 1 hour, then quickly grew frustrated and bored, and stopped playing after a few days and decided to wait - perhaps permanently - on buying a copy.

Has anyone who stuck with it, despite feeling great animosity toward it, had a change of heart? Can it grow on you? Are you finding a way to manage its flaws and limitations? Are you getting something out of the game that you didn't expect going in?

Has anyone who at one point said "I hate this game!" ended up changing their mind?

Or am I being too hopeful?
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#2 Oct 05 2010 at 12:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Why would they? Haters gonna h-*gunshot*
#3 Oct 05 2010 at 12:12 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Not much changed from the open beta to release, and not much has changed since then. Why would I? If SE suddenly fixed half of the really basic problems I have with the game, I'd probably go out and buy it today.
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#4 Oct 05 2010 at 12:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Not really. Square hasn't fixed any of the things bothering us yet. I'm pretty much forcing myself to logon.
#5 Oct 05 2010 at 12:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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WillCider wrote:
Not really. Square hasn't fixed any of the things bothering us yet. I'm pretty much forcing myself to logon.


Yeah, I don't hate the game and STILL want it to get better, but it's just not meshing with me.
#6 Oct 05 2010 at 12:17 PM Rating: Good
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Considering how much I hated this game during beta, I've kind of changed my mind. My RL friends convinced me to bite the bullet and buy the game anyway, and I have really seen the potential in the game's crafting system. I just wish there was a more convenient way for players to trade with each other, because right now it is the worst I have seen for a modern MMO. AT LEAST allow people to put up signs for their bazaar, so I can get a general idea of what they're selling without having to browse them.
#7 Oct 05 2010 at 12:20 PM Rating: Good
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Nope. Every day I find a new frustration. My latest is that level 10 crafting leves require you to also have another tradeskill levelled. Why do I have to level leatherworking if I want to be a blacksmith? Although I must say that the 36 hour leve timer and the slow regen anima is no longer an issue since i'm only playing like an hour a day this week so far.
#8 Oct 05 2010 at 12:26 PM Rating: Good
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In fact Square has not fixed anything in the client code. All the updates so far have been on the server side and scripts. The difference between release and open beta client seems to be only in the menu screen and resources (at least the broken equipment debuff is in English and I have not seen that many placeholders in the dialogs). Even "hardware mouse" is just a option exposed in the config, it had been supported in open beta as many found out.

The lack of code updates actually made switch from "Well, it's going to take them a month or two to fix" to "Probably the core dev team has been laid off/moved to another project". It's not just code stuff, Ul'dah M2 cutscene is still bugged (mithra is switching between red and white boots like half a dozen times during the cutscenes, this is a resource bug and does not even require code changes). On Istory /p and /l stopped working on Sunday and still have not been fixed on Monday night, it's not even "known issue". Seems like the game is already abandoned.
#9 Oct 05 2010 at 12:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Nope. Every day I find a new frustration. My latest is that level 10 crafting leves require you to also have another tradeskill levelled. Why do I have to level leatherworking if I want to be a blacksmith? Although I must say that the 36 hour leve timer and the slow regen anima is no longer an issue since i'm only playing like an hour a day this week so far.


Have to do the same thing is most other MMO's... was a requirement for most skills in FFXI as well... this isn't a valid complaint.
#10 Oct 05 2010 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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windexy wrote:
Quote:
Nope. Every day I find a new frustration. My latest is that level 10 crafting leves require you to also have another tradeskill levelled. Why do I have to level leatherworking if I want to be a blacksmith? Although I must say that the 36 hour leve timer and the slow regen anima is no longer an issue since i'm only playing like an hour a day this week so far.


Have to do the same thing is most other MMO's... was a requirement for most skills in FFXI as well... this isn't a valid complaint.
"Another game does this too" isn't a reason to dismiss a complaint.
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#11 Oct 05 2010 at 12:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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windexy wrote:
Have to do the same thing is most other MMO's... was a requirement for most skills in FFXI as well... this isn't a valid complaint.


Actually, this is a very valid complaint and it's these type blind-devotion responses that are driving a lot of people away from even trying to give constructive criticism.

Many MMOs require some extent of craft trade to make items, this is very much true. However, those MMOs also have Auction Houses which make it much easier / faster to locate the items you need, as opposed to endlessly running around checking bazaars in a horrendously laggy UI. Additionally, FFXIV's profession-linking is really a full circle. To use WoW as an example (which everyone hates), professions were typically designed so a specific pairing of two professions would allow you to be self-sufficient. This is reasonable. FFXIV took it one (or six) steps too far. You would almost have to do every single profession to be self sufficient. If someone wants to make a pair of cotton trousers, you will need weaving, leather working, alchemy, mining, and armoring. All for a pair of freaking cotton trousers which are not at all exciting. When most games ask you to bridge multiple professions, it's to make an exciting item. FFXIV chores you with this process for mundane items.

A couple days ago, a friend decided to reroll his character as his point allotment wouldn't reset and he wanted to change from melee to caster focus. I told him I'd make him a hempen cowl to get started, but I needed to make everything from scratch, including the hempen yarn. It took over half an hour just to create the necessary hempen yard, hempen cloth, cowl parts, et cetera to make the final item. The thought of leveling every profession at this snail pace is not at all fun (and that's what we play games for). The thought of running around checking 50 bazaars in a laggy UI to find the items I need is also not fun. When someone pays $50-75 for a game and finds nothing in it to be fun, for them that is a very valid complaint and one they have a right to voice.

Edited, Oct 5th 2010 2:43pm by jsteimel
#12windexy, Posted: Oct 05 2010 at 12:43 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) No, but his entire reasoning is.
#13 Oct 05 2010 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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windexy wrote:
EDIT: Sorry both of you are right, all characters should have come with all crafts pre-leveled because thats what this complaint amounts too.
That's an even stupider comment than the rest of the post you edited it into. The complaint doesn't amount to wanting all crafts pre-leveled.

Come on now, don't let your distaste of people who disagree with your opinion blind you into making such worthless drivel as that.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#14 Oct 05 2010 at 12:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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windexy wrote:
Quote:
"Another game does this too" isn't a reason to dismiss a complaint.


No, but his entire reasoning is.

Doubly so since he doesn't HAVE to make that item. He could very well have passed on that leve since he knew he couldn't do it.



EDIT:
Sorry both of you are right, all characters should have come with all crafts pre-leveled because thats what this complaint amounts too.

Edited, Oct 5th 2010 1:44pm by windexy


LOL you are a funny little guy. Let me try and explain a bit more. My complaint is that I have to level a tradeskill that has nothing to do with my chosen tradeskill in order to make items for my chosen tradeskill.

Personally, I don't like tradeskills but that's immaterial. It's obvious that this game is built around them, so OK, I pick two to focus on. I then learn that in order to make things I have to pick up a 3rd and even a 4th tradeskill. That's extremely frustrating.

Additionally, I didn't "know I couldn't do it" until I accepted the leve, ran to the location and attempted it. So yes, I can pass on it in the future. I still can't make that item, and presumably future items without picking up more tradeskills.

I'm fine with requiring items from other jobs to complete items from your chosen job. I'm not fine with requiring me to BE those other jobs in order to create items from my chosen job.

Does that break it down enough for you?
#15windexy, Posted: Oct 05 2010 at 1:04 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post)
My complaint is that I have to level a tradeskill that has nothing to do with my chosen tradeskill in order to make items for my chosen tradeskill.
#16 Oct 05 2010 at 1:06 PM Rating: Good
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windexy wrote:
Quote:
"Another game does this too" isn't a reason to dismiss a complaint.


No, but his entire reasoning is.

Doubly so since he doesn't HAVE to make that item. He could very well have passed on that leve since he knew he couldn't do it.



EDIT:
Sorry both of you are right, all characters should have come with all crafts pre-leveled because thats what this complaint amounts too.

Edited, Oct 5th 2010 1:44pm by windexy


If you have no argument, which you clearly don't.. why did you bother posting at all? How much of your integrity are you willing to shed in defense of this game?

I had the exact same thing happen to me. I picked up Weaver, Carpentry, Botany, Conjurer, Thaumaturge, and fishing. I thought.. well ok, that's good enough for now. And then found out if I actually want to make anything cool with weaving I have to either pick up yet another job (leatherworking) or deal with the crappy retainer system. I think those two choices both suck horribly bad and that's where my frustration with this game peaked.
#17 Oct 05 2010 at 1:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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You obviously had no idea of what my complaint was by your response which I quoted. Perhaps you get it now... but neither your justification nor your flawed RL analogy invalidate it.
#18 Oct 05 2010 at 1:07 PM Rating: Decent
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windexy wrote:


I'm a network admin but that doesn't mean I can build a car just because they have a computer and wires.


What?
#19windexy, Posted: Oct 05 2010 at 1:08 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) And what exactly did you just add to the discussion? Nothing so why did you bother posting at all?
#20 Oct 05 2010 at 1:09 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
What?


Did you forget how to read?
#21 Oct 05 2010 at 1:09 PM Rating: Good
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By the way, a mechanic doesn't have to be a machinist to replace an alternator. Nor does he have to know how to make gaskets or belts in order to replace them. etc. etc. etc.
#22 Oct 05 2010 at 1:14 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
By the way, a mechanic doesn't have to be a machinist to replace an alternator. Nor does he have to know how to make gaskets or belts in order to replace them. etc. etc. etc.


This is a good example for repairing.... but not for making the finished product.

The guy who makes the alternator has to know mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, and be well-versed enough with cars to make that alternator.
#23 Oct 05 2010 at 1:19 PM Rating: Decent
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lol no he doesn't. He follows a blueprint and assembles the components.

Anyway, my apologies, I didn't realize that you were just arguing to argue. I'll leave you alone now.
#24 Oct 05 2010 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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windexy wrote:
Quote:
By the way, a mechanic doesn't have to be a machinist to replace an alternator. Nor does he have to know how to make gaskets or belts in order to replace them. etc. etc. etc.


This is a good example for repairing.... but not for making the finished product.

The guy who makes the alternator has to know mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, and be well-versed enough with cars to make that alternator.
Good thing what you craft in FFXIV isn't remotely as complex as that.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#25 Oct 05 2010 at 1:25 PM Rating: Decent
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windexy wrote:
The guy who makes the alternator has to know mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, and be well-versed enough with cars to make that alternator.


Just to help you with your de-rail...

I have had friends in the automotive factory buisiness who didn't even know how to change their own oil. They press a buttom or check to make sure a pulley doesn't have burrs. They might even pull a piece off the line and take it to a test bench. Obviously constructing parts does not mean (even if to the average person it implies) knowledge of the finished product.

****, that's like saying I'm in the Military so I must know the strategy and time of when we're going to pull out of whatever current warzone.
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#26 Oct 05 2010 at 1:26 PM Rating: Good
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windexy wrote:
Quote:
By the way, a mechanic doesn't have to be a machinist to replace an alternator. Nor does he have to know how to make gaskets or belts in order to replace them. etc. etc. etc.


This is a good example for repairing.... but not for making the finished product.

The guy who makes the alternator has to know mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, and be well-versed enough with cars to make that alternator.



Not really, he just has to read the book telling him how to put it together... btw I make books.
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#27 Oct 05 2010 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Not much changed from the open beta to release, and not much has changed since then. Why would I? If SE suddenly fixed half of the really basic problems I have with the game, I'd probably go out and buy it today.


What he said - fix problems and I'll but it tomorrow.
#28 Oct 05 2010 at 1:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've probably been the most critical of SE on these boards, but I don't think it's fair to classify anyone who has an low opinion on the state of the game a "hater". When I hear the word "hater" used, I take it to mean someone who dislikes a thing without having valid reasoning, or someone who dislikes something successful just to stick it to "the man".

If you really want to get down to it, the posters here on Alla are some of the most loyal fans Square Enix has ever seen. We've all played FFXI for years, seen the ups and downs, and I truly think that it just hurts the loyal ones the most that SE didn't listen to the things we asked them to fix.

Really, we don't ask for much. If SE ust assigned a rep to come round to the boards - and I mean a REAL rep, not the Square Enix Community account that logs in once a year (if we are lucky) - there would be a lot more positive discussion. This is kind of what happens when people are left alone with their thoughts.

I haven't changed my opinion since the open beta, but I still come to these forums every day looking for news of changes or updates. In fact, someone ought to ban that little ****** who posted that AH and mailbox were confirmed on Lodestone for this week. That was so not funny.

:p

#29 Oct 05 2010 at 2:03 PM Rating: Default
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Have any of the haters changed their minds?


Nope. SE has not given us any insight as to when the suck that is this game is going to change, if ever.
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#30 Oct 05 2010 at 2:08 PM Rating: Decent
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TraumaFox wrote:
Why would they? Haters gonna h-*gunshot*


*re-loads* >_<
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#31 Oct 05 2010 at 2:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Torrence wrote:

If you really want to get down to it, the posters here on Alla are some of the most loyal fans Square Enix has ever seen. We've all played FFXI for years, seen the ups and downs, and I truly think that it just hurts the loyal ones the most that SE didn't listen to the things we asked them to fix.

Really, we don't ask for much. If SE ust assigned a rep to come round to the boards - and I mean a REAL rep, not the Square Enix Community account that logs in once a year (if we are lucky) - there would be a lot more positive discussion. This is kind of what happens when people are left alone with their thoughts.


^ This. I've been trying to be more positive about the game itself, I've been po'd in posts a few times, I've just been damned disappointed about so much. But, I think if there was a chance in **** that SE actually read anything on the Alla feedback forums, I'd feel a lot more hopeful just knowing that somebody somewhere KNEW what we were saying. That they were reporting the major issues we have to SE.
But..they obviously didn't pay attention to the Beta feedback forums because not much changed. They thanked us very much, but in essence, nothing changed.
A multitude of agonized posts here haven't prompted a response. Does anyone know if there are Japanese forums that are in just as much of an uproar as there is here? Because I'm starting to think that SE won't be getting any clues til the PS3 version comes out, and the Japanese players start ranting.

...I don't think SE cares what we think.




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#32 Oct 05 2010 at 2:39 PM Rating: Decent
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when the golden patch arrives everybody will change all of their minds and be happy.

mark my words.
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#33 Oct 05 2010 at 2:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Vorkosigan wrote:
Torrence wrote:

If you really want to get down to it, the posters here on Alla are some of the most loyal fans Square Enix has ever seen. We've all played FFXI for years, seen the ups and downs, and I truly think that it just hurts the loyal ones the most that SE didn't listen to the things we asked them to fix.

Really, we don't ask for much. If SE ust assigned a rep to come round to the boards - and I mean a REAL rep, not the Square Enix Community account that logs in once a year (if we are lucky) - there would be a lot more positive discussion. This is kind of what happens when people are left alone with their thoughts.


^ This. I've been trying to be more positive about the game itself, I've been po'd in posts a few times, I've just been damned disappointed about so much. But, I think if there was a chance in **** that SE actually read anything on the Alla feedback forums, I'd feel a lot more hopeful just knowing that somebody somewhere KNEW what we were saying. That they were reporting the major issues we have to SE.
But..they obviously didn't pay attention to the Beta feedback forums because not much changed. They thanked us very much, but in essence, nothing changed.
A multitude of agonized posts here haven't prompted a response. Does anyone know if there are Japanese forums that are in just as much of an uproar as there is here? Because I'm starting to think that SE won't be getting any clues til the PS3 version comes out, and the Japanese players start ranting.

...I don't think SE cares what we think.







that's pretty much my concern too. We don't have community reps like wow has, who will actually respond to complains and criticisms on a daily basis. I don't know that SE's heard our complaints. I haven't started any threads, but if I did the feedback forums wouldn't be where I'd put it, because its feedback for SE, located on a 3rd party site, which to me sounds like its just being burried. SE offers us zero accountability, their feedback sends stock replies, I have no idea if anything I've sent them has ever gone to a real person.
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#34 Oct 05 2010 at 2:51 PM Rating: Default
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insanekangaroo wrote:
when the golden patch arrives everybody will change all of their minds and be happy.

mark my words.

Hopefully this.
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#35 Oct 05 2010 at 3:13 PM Rating: Good
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I just found a good grinding spot. I'm not really into crafting or anything I just want to level my archer. So I just keep the game in window mode and click back and forwath and kill a few mobs every once in awhile. Not really excited about the game but I just want to keep a pace just incase it does change.
#36 Oct 05 2010 at 4:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Why should I change my mind from Open Beta when the game hasn't changed since Open Beta?
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#37 Oct 05 2010 at 4:07 PM Rating: Good
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Since beta, I have been an overly optimistic player, but even I am succumbing to a mild hatred at the moment. Having hit rank 22, I log in, but do not have the willpower to grind anymore. I am also not a crafter. Yes I have tried a bunch of them, but combat is what I really enjoy. And I am not enjoying doing it alone or duo. In order to continue having fun in this game, they need to fix the party bug.
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#38 Oct 05 2010 at 6:04 PM Rating: Good
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windexy wrote:
Quote:
What?


Did you forget how to read?


Uh, no. Obviously I meant "What the **** are you talking about?" You forget how to use context clues?
#39 Oct 05 2010 at 8:23 PM Rating: Good
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Not much has changed from beta to release from what i can tell - but i have only marginally passed my beta level currently...

So based on my experience in game; if you liked the beta, you liked the game... if you hated the beta you hate the game.
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