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Auction house will ruin gameFollow

#52 Oct 05 2010 at 10:10 PM Rating: Excellent
*****
11,539 posts
MojoRysyn wrote:
I'm am however new to posting on these forums.
I didnt know i would get flamed for having an opinion about something.
I will now change my name to birdhair and slit my wrists.

I will stay off your forum boards since you all know best!
You have won and not made any friends..


But i still think auction house is bad.
And i do think if you work 40 hours a week and have children then you have no right
having top gear.

You get what you deserve.

And maybe if you didn't make 9,002 posts on these forums you'd have more time to play the actual game and all that other stuff you claim to be busy with


Perhaps you may be new, so I, a forum junkie, shall enlighten you. Benefit ye from my many years of +1-age.

1) No one is "flaming" you. If you think this is flaming, you must REALLY be new to forums in general. When people start saying not so nice things about your mother and suggest that you submit yourself for a Darwin Award in creative and painful ways, that's when it's flaming. Right now, it's just people who are mostly laughing at your naivete.

2) This isn't about you having an opinion; I love how people who get lambasted think that the mere fact that they have an opinion exempts them from criticism, while simultaneously defending their right to criticize. The fact is, you're not getting **** "because you have an opinion"; you're getting **** on because:

- You have an extremely unpopular opinion
- You can't handle opposing viewpoints.
- You don't have any counterarguments that anyone other than yourself feels are even remotely valid.
- You call people who disagree with you immature, as if to submit the point that the only "mature" argument is your own. Ironically immature an argument if ever there was one, since you're finding the need to result to a preemptive ad hominem attack towards detractors and consider yourself to be the better person somehow in such an argument.

As for friends, I may or may not have made any friends, but you certainly haven't made any either. I think that you were missing the point of the joke made in that post. Perhaps you are new to forums, in which case my best advice to you is to lurk more and post less. Forums really aren't any different than any other social gathering. Feel out the room's vibes and if you think you can contribute, then speak up. If all you're going to do is walk into a Star Trek Convention and start announcing how the U.S.S. Enterprise needs more Wookies, you're just going to end up with your foot in your mouth and alot of people laughing at you, not unlike this thread. Even if you had a point that was valid, you're going about gaining support for it the wrong way.

Protip: Making the comment that people with full time jobs or children, and I'm quoting you here, "have no right having top gear" and that if you have a job, a life, and/or a family, quoting again: "you get what you deserve", is a pretty bad move too. It's kinda like an ugly relative; even if you think it, you should keep it to yourself, because it's just going to open up a giant ******* can of worms.

As for my 9,000 posts; they were accumulated since May of 2004. That's 77 months, or approximately 2000ish days on these forums, which works out to an average of 4.5 posts per day? Don't you have 6 posts in this very topic, and you just got here? If you were here for another 2000 days at 6 posts per day, that's 12,000 posts. Math is your friend.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#53 Oct 05 2010 at 10:14 PM Rating: Excellent
*****
11,539 posts
Oh, and incidentally, I'm still not flaming you yet. In fact, I'm being rather cordial, all things considered, because you're new here and I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you just don't know any better. It's okay, we were all new once.

I might be flaming you if I pointed out that I think that whole bit about you allegedly being 30, pulling in 100k a year between yourself and a tattoo artist wife, having two kids, etc etc was a giant crock of ****. I'd be surprised if -any- of that was true.

Well, maybe I'd believe that you're 30.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#54 Oct 05 2010 at 10:21 PM Rating: Decent
*
59 posts
I think I agree with PP. However, they need to find a more efficient way to search through the Market Wards. I think an AH is making things too easy. And look at FFXI, THERE WAS an AH but zone out of Lower or Upper Jeuno and see all the bazaars?? They aren't using the beloved AH. I get they are trying to save on taxing but seriously, searching for HOURS to find 1 item, is a total waste of time!
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Rhya Caitsith Server
Retired: July 2009

#55 Oct 05 2010 at 10:23 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,497 posts
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
MojoRysyn wrote:
I'm am however new to posting on these forums.
I didnt know i would get flamed for having an opinion about something.
I will now change my name to birdhair and slit my wrists.

I will stay off your forum boards since you all know best!
You have won and not made any friends..


But i still think auction house is bad.
And i do think if you work 40 hours a week and have children then you have no right
having top gear.

You get what you deserve.

And maybe if you didn't make 9,002 posts on these forums you'd have more time to play the actual game and all that other stuff you claim to be busy with


Perhaps you may be new, so I, a forum junkie, shall enlighten you. Benefit ye from my many years of +1-age.

1) No one is "flaming" you. If you think this is flaming, you must REALLY be new to forums in general. When people start saying not so nice things about your mother and suggest that you submit yourself for a Darwin Award in creative and painful ways, that's when it's flaming. Right now, it's just people who are mostly laughing at your naivete.

2) This isn't about you having an opinion; I love how people who get lambasted think that the mere fact that they have an opinion exempts them from criticism, while simultaneously defending their right to criticize. The fact is, you're not getting sh*t "because you have an opinion"; you're getting sh*t on because:

- You have an extremely unpopular opinion
- You can't handle opposing viewpoints.
- You don't have any counterarguments that anyone other than yourself feels are even remotely valid.
- You call people who disagree with you immature, as if to submit the point that the only "mature" argument is your own. Ironically immature an argument if ever there was one, since you're finding the need to result to a preemptive ad hominem attack towards detractors and consider yourself to be the better person somehow in such an argument.

As for friends, I may or may not have made any friends, but you certainly haven't made any either. I think that you were missing the point of the joke made in that post. Perhaps you are new to forums, in which case my best advice to you is to lurk more and post less. Forums really aren't any different than any other social gathering. Feel out the room's vibes and if you think you can contribute, then speak up. If all you're going to do is walk into a Star Trek Convention and start announcing how the U.S.S. Enterprise needs more Wookies, you're just going to end up with your foot in your mouth and alot of people laughing at you, not unlike this thread. Even if you had a point that was valid, you're going about gaining support for it the wrong way.

Protip: Making the comment that people with full time jobs or children, and I'm quoting you here, "have no right having top gear" and that if you have a job, a life, and/or a family, quoting again: "you get what you deserve", is a pretty bad move too. It's kinda like an ugly relative; even if you think it, you should keep it to yourself, because it's just going to open up a giant @#%^ing can of worms.

As for my 9,000 posts; they were accumulated since May of 2004. That's 77 months, or approximately 2000ish days on these forums, which works out to an average of 4.5 posts per day? Don't you have 6 posts in this very topic, and you just got here? If you were here for another 2000 days at 6 posts per day, that's 12,000 posts. Math is your friend.


You really don't need to make such a well thought out and intelligent counter-argument to him. In fact ignore him, because his counter-argument will be "ur dumb" in comparison.
#56 Oct 05 2010 at 10:24 PM Rating: Excellent
Jack of All Trades
******
29,611 posts
I love how people are using BUT IT KEEPS THE GAME CHALLENGING AND/OR MORE REALISTIC!!11 as an excuse to defend serious MMO design flaws.

This is why you guys can't have nice things.

Keep on keeping on, d00ds
#57 Oct 05 2010 at 10:31 PM Rating: Excellent
*****
11,539 posts
shykin wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
MojoRysyn wrote:
I'm am however new to posting on these forums.
I didnt know i would get flamed for having an opinion about something.
I will now change my name to birdhair and slit my wrists.

I will stay off your forum boards since you all know best!
You have won and not made any friends..


But i still think auction house is bad.
And i do think if you work 40 hours a week and have children then you have no right
having top gear.

You get what you deserve.

And maybe if you didn't make 9,002 posts on these forums you'd have more time to play the actual game and all that other stuff you claim to be busy with


Perhaps you may be new, so I, a forum junkie, shall enlighten you. Benefit ye from my many years of +1-age.

1) No one is "flaming" you. If you think this is flaming, you must REALLY be new to forums in general. When people start saying not so nice things about your mother and suggest that you submit yourself for a Darwin Award in creative and painful ways, that's when it's flaming. Right now, it's just people who are mostly laughing at your naivete.

2) This isn't about you having an opinion; I love how people who get lambasted think that the mere fact that they have an opinion exempts them from criticism, while simultaneously defending their right to criticize. The fact is, you're not getting sh*t "because you have an opinion"; you're getting sh*t on because:

- You have an extremely unpopular opinion
- You can't handle opposing viewpoints.
- You don't have any counterarguments that anyone other than yourself feels are even remotely valid.
- You call people who disagree with you immature, as if to submit the point that the only "mature" argument is your own. Ironically immature an argument if ever there was one, since you're finding the need to result to a preemptive ad hominem attack towards detractors and consider yourself to be the better person somehow in such an argument.

As for friends, I may or may not have made any friends, but you certainly haven't made any either. I think that you were missing the point of the joke made in that post. Perhaps you are new to forums, in which case my best advice to you is to lurk more and post less. Forums really aren't any different than any other social gathering. Feel out the room's vibes and if you think you can contribute, then speak up. If all you're going to do is walk into a Star Trek Convention and start announcing how the U.S.S. Enterprise needs more Wookies, you're just going to end up with your foot in your mouth and alot of people laughing at you, not unlike this thread. Even if you had a point that was valid, you're going about gaining support for it the wrong way.

Protip: Making the comment that people with full time jobs or children, and I'm quoting you here, "have no right having top gear" and that if you have a job, a life, and/or a family, quoting again: "you get what you deserve", is a pretty bad move too. It's kinda like an ugly relative; even if you think it, you should keep it to yourself, because it's just going to open up a giant @#%^ing can of worms.

As for my 9,000 posts; they were accumulated since May of 2004. That's 77 months, or approximately 2000ish days on these forums, which works out to an average of 4.5 posts per day? Don't you have 6 posts in this very topic, and you just got here? If you were here for another 2000 days at 6 posts per day, that's 12,000 posts. Math is your friend.


You really don't need to make such a well thought out and intelligent counter-argument to him. In fact ignore him, because his counter-argument will be "ur dumb" in comparison.


I don't need to, no, but it's still fun to do.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#58 Oct 05 2010 at 10:34 PM Rating: Good
4 posts
By not having an Auction House you just add to the fact that the whole concept of this game is SLOW.

Slow XP.
Slow Travel.
Slow Combat.
Slow Crafting.

It's simple. Slow down the player. Player plays longer. Company earns more $. Too bad the game isn't worth the $.
#59 Oct 05 2010 at 10:41 PM Rating: Default
33 posts
So your arguing with someone who thinks
they should not add an auction house to the game.

I have an opinion about something.
I backed it up with thoughts and experience.
Criticism im fine with..
but i didnt get any criticism

We could have a conversation about this.
Which i tried to do.
But was immediately told im an idiot and im unsuccessful in life
and i must be a kid in high school.

That was the immature behavior i was referring to.
The lazy comment i will take back.
Just because I've found a way to balance real life and game life
doesn't mean everyone can. so ill admit that is true.

But even with that i still feel an auction house is bad for the game.
And i was hoping for more feedback on different solutions.
And trying to use my imagination to create something different and better
than a blind auction house exactly like FFXI.


As far as what you believe about me.
I promise you its the entire truth and would offer you
the evidence if i wasnt afraid youd just repost it all over the place
and keep harrassing me for having an opinion.

And i didnt know people on this forum were so involved emotionally with this game and its systems.

If i lurked through it a little more before posting i might of stated things differently and learned how to manipulate more productive conversations.

One things for sure i wont be coming here anymore.
Sorry to waste your time on something thats been over done on these forums.
#60MojoRysyn, Posted: Oct 05 2010 at 10:42 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) i never said anyone was dumb.
#61 Oct 05 2010 at 10:49 PM Rating: Default
33 posts
i actually am open minded.

I think your trying to treat me like past threads you've been involved with.

Please do not stereotype me like that.

im not really that emotionally attached to this subject.
And now i have to defend myself for not wanting an auction house in the game.

Im actually playing XIV right now on my other screen.

I will lurk a little more and learn how to post before posting another thread.
Sorry to have wasted your time.
#62 Oct 05 2010 at 11:22 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
shykin wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
MojoRysyn wrote:
I'm am however new to posting on these forums.
I didnt know i would get flamed for having an opinion about something.
I will now change my name to birdhair and slit my wrists.

I will stay off your forum boards since you all know best!
You have won and not made any friends..


But i still think auction house is bad.
And i do think if you work 40 hours a week and have children then you have no right
having top gear.

You get what you deserve.

And maybe if you didn't make 9,002 posts on these forums you'd have more time to play the actual game and all that other stuff you claim to be busy with


Perhaps you may be new, so I, a forum junkie, shall enlighten you. Benefit ye from my many years of +1-age.

1) No one is "flaming" you. If you think this is flaming, you must REALLY be new to forums in general. When people start saying not so nice things about your mother and suggest that you submit yourself for a Darwin Award in creative and painful ways, that's when it's flaming. Right now, it's just people who are mostly laughing at your naivete.

2) This isn't about you having an opinion; I love how people who get lambasted think that the mere fact that they have an opinion exempts them from criticism, while simultaneously defending their right to criticize. The fact is, you're not getting sh*t "because you have an opinion"; you're getting sh*t on because:

- You have an extremely unpopular opinion
- You can't handle opposing viewpoints.
- You don't have any counterarguments that anyone other than yourself feels are even remotely valid.
- You call people who disagree with you immature, as if to submit the point that the only "mature" argument is your own. Ironically immature an argument if ever there was one, since you're finding the need to result to a preemptive ad hominem attack towards detractors and consider yourself to be the better person somehow in such an argument.

As for friends, I may or may not have made any friends, but you certainly haven't made any either. I think that you were missing the point of the joke made in that post. Perhaps you are new to forums, in which case my best advice to you is to lurk more and post less. Forums really aren't any different than any other social gathering. Feel out the room's vibes and if you think you can contribute, then speak up. If all you're going to do is walk into a Star Trek Convention and start announcing how the U.S.S. Enterprise needs more Wookies, you're just going to end up with your foot in your mouth and alot of people laughing at you, not unlike this thread. Even if you had a point that was valid, you're going about gaining support for it the wrong way.

Protip: Making the comment that people with full time jobs or children, and I'm quoting you here, "have no right having top gear" and that if you have a job, a life, and/or a family, quoting again: "you get what you deserve", is a pretty bad move too. It's kinda like an ugly relative; even if you think it, you should keep it to yourself, because it's just going to open up a giant @#%^ing can of worms.

As for my 9,000 posts; they were accumulated since May of 2004. That's 77 months, or approximately 2000ish days on these forums, which works out to an average of 4.5 posts per day? Don't you have 6 posts in this very topic, and you just got here? If you were here for another 2000 days at 6 posts per day, that's 12,000 posts. Math is your friend.


You really don't need to make such a well thought out and intelligent counter-argument to him. In fact ignore him, because his counter-argument will be "ur dumb" in comparison.


I don't need to, no, but it's still fun to do.


Fun to read too.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#63mitmystria, Posted: Oct 05 2010 at 11:25 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) the lazy idiots who need every top piece of equip for every level buying gil will ruin the game and raise the prices in the AH, then ***** and moan the AH is too high.
#64 Oct 06 2010 at 8:51 AM Rating: Excellent
40 posts
I really don't understand how the retainer system is more realistic than an auction house.

Let's say I want to make a pizza in real life. The basic ingredients are flour, yeast, salt, tomatoes, and cheese. Now, if I go to a grocery store, I don't make blind bids on items, but buy items for set prices. But the bidding isn't the important part of an AH. The important part of an AH is it allows the free flow of goods from people who want an amount of gil more than they want an item to the people who want that item more than they want that amount of gil. That's what the grocer does - the farmer, the companies that produce the flour, yeast, and salt, and the dairy all want my money more than they want those items.

There's no such connection between vendors and consumers in the current retainer system. A system of commerce doesn't necessarily have to take the form of the FFXI auction house, but to have a well-run economy, you have to have some way to get goods to purchasers in an efficient manner. The current system is not efficient at doing this. It's essentially adding a giant layer of red tape to tasks that are the means to an end. This isn't a shopping simulator. It no doubt adds a layer of complexity and realism if, when playing a FPS, you occasionally have to take a break to disassemble and clean your weapons and have to file incident reports after killing someone, but it certainly wouldn't make it more fun.

One argument presented is that it's the equivalent of open-air bazaars. Perhaps, but there's a reason that open-air bazaars aren't the primary way we purchase things. Never in history does this form of commerce lead to a robust economy. Open-air bazaars have to either be extremely specialized (like farmers markets or craft fairs) or limited scope (flea markets). Nobody does their basic needs. This week, I've purchased airline tickets, made hotel reservations, bought AA batteries, ibuprofen, milk, soda, allergy medicine, and had my oil changed. I submit that it's neither necessary, fun, efficient, or practical for me to expect me to have to go to an open market of thousands of poorly differentiated stalls to find all these things. There's a reason that this model of purchasing goods has gone out of fashion for most needs. 11th century Europe was not made up of robust, efficient economies - why would emulating an economy with much greater potential for exploitation increase the inherent fairness when used in a MMORPG?

While having bazaars named is a bit of an improvement, it's still not realistic because due to the job system, people's needs are *not* particularly specialized - people need weapons, armor, potions, and raw goods for many different professions. I may find those purchases I made this week faster at a series of specialized open-air bazaars than in one big open-air bazaar, but I still don't want to have to go to mass open-air bazaars at the Airline Fair, the Hotel Fair, the Battery Fair, the Drug Fair, the Food Fair, and the Car Services Fair.

Sure, it helps a small percentage of crafters on the selling who can use the lack of price signals to make more money than in situations in which the marginal cost drives prices, but it also discourages people from making purchases. Currency is limited because time is finite, so I'm going to buy less things when there is far more uncertainty about what the value of something is. You get this at first with an auction house at well, but there's a fairly quick sorting out period. The current system does not promote stability, it promotes an economy in which nearly everything is illiquid.
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Dan Szymborski
VALEFOR - Aurelian
#65 Oct 06 2010 at 9:41 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
260 posts
Not that my vote is worth anything but I am for a reverse type auction system. There would be a main counter that would allow you to search by ward, city, world, whatever they decide on. You would have a menu system like in ffxi that listed all of the items that are available with some way of denoting if any are actually in stock. When you click on the item there would be a list of retainer names with the price next to it. You pick the one you want, click commit and poof. You have your items and the retainer has money. While I loved the AH method in FFXI it doesn't seem to be popular in the community as a whole. Doing it the way I mentioned would encourage people to undercut the market (visibly as all the selling prices would be shown) thereby making items cheaper (assuming you wanted to sell yours)

I'll miss the the XI way of doing things tho, it was cool coming into the game only to find someone had accidently paid 100k for a 1k item (that I had listed at like 10 to make sure it sold :D )

-Teeg
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#66 Oct 06 2010 at 11:06 AM Rating: Good
22 posts
one proof on how people 'love' current Mannequin system: every time when i visit market ward, there are at most 5 people together with me on a same floor, while hundreds retainers standing lifelessly.

Compare with ffxi, where how many people are gathering in front of AH at a time..

that means a lot stuff can not be sold in time, and a lot of buyers can't find what they want. FFXI may have bad economy, but there is ABSOLUTELY NO economy going on in ffxiv...



Edited, Oct 6th 2010 1:07pm by conditionzero
#67 Oct 06 2010 at 11:19 AM Rating: Good
22 posts
This HAS to be a troll. I'm sorry, I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around the idea that anyone is actually that dumb. Well played interweb troll, well played.
____________________________
chewy?
#68 Oct 06 2010 at 11:19 AM Rating: Decent
**
782 posts
Quote:
i agree with cod3r, maybe then I could find that stinkin' cotton robe that i've been looking for since level 17!


Why don't you try asking a weaver in your LS, or anywehere? I needed some cotton tabards so I could make sentinels mail, asked, and a weaver gave me three of em at the low low cost of inventory +1.
#69 Oct 06 2010 at 12:09 PM Rating: Excellent
33 posts
It isn't hard to browse players wares for hours on end finding nothing you need or finding what you need overpriced. ITS RIDICULOUS. And to say that it takes away form the community by HAVING an AH? No...it adds a central location (or several) for players to gather and sell wares or to pile their **** onto a GIANT retainer that EVERYONE can see. An Auction House would keep players in this game because people are quitting. I personally will never use the retainer system if I have to separate my gear to obtain a "tax discount" by selling items at the right location. Everything about this system is stupid...and it REMOVES the community feeling because I have to go and manually search NPC's that are holding players items.

The only thing a retainer should be doing is taking my ****, walking his happy *** to the AUCTION HOUSE and dumping it off for the prices I told him.
#70 Oct 06 2010 at 12:13 PM Rating: Excellent
*
182 posts
MojoRysyn wrote:
Hello.

My reason for this discussion is to clear peoples minds about not having an auction house and to support developers in never creating one for FFXIV. it will simply ruin the game. there are other solutions to peoples headaches on not being able to find mats for crafting.

We see thousands of unused items on FFXI's auction house. My experience with FFXIV over the last month has made me a better player without it.
It has made the game more interactive and real to me. I have seen a beautiful variety of players all expressing more individuality than could ever be created with FFXI or any other popular MMORPG.

The biggest complaint i see on forums is there is no place to dump crafted items or get materials to keep crafting.
This can be solved by just selling all materials
at a NPC.

I firmly believe an auction house will ruin this game. I love searching for gear in crafters bazaars. its given the game more variety and individuality. Auction houses will only make the game.. the same as FFXI. This is the future and auction houses will only set you back.

Also i think an auction house takes control away from the developers. These people dont know anything about economy.

Example.. you let them make the economy on FFXI..

Then they ******* and complained about it...

But they did it to themselves!!

By selling crafting materials at NPC's..

the developers keep control.!!


If you dont like it. then go play WoW or FFXI for the rest of your life.
I like the game being more life like and putting everyone on the same level.
I like that no auction house makes people work harder.
I made a really good friend because i bought something out of her bazaar.

And that's when it all clicked for me. and i seen how much better this game is
without it


Rayneblood > FFXI

Mojo Rysyn > FFXIV > the new masterpiece.


Of course, the auction house and also chocobo stables will ruin this game... its not the stoned chinese programmers which made this game its the auction house and chocobo stables which will ruin it.

goosh...
#71 Oct 06 2010 at 12:33 PM Rating: Excellent
***
1,636 posts
MojoRysyn wrote:
Hello.

My reason for this discussion is to clear peoples minds about not having an auction house and to support developers in never creating one for FFXIV. it will simply ruin the game. there are other solutions to peoples headaches on not being able to find mats for crafting.

We see thousands of unused items on FFXI's auction house. My experience with FFXIV over the last month has made me a better player without it.
It has made the game more interactive and real to me. I have seen a beautiful variety of players all expressing more individuality than could ever be created with FFXI or any other popular MMORPG.

The biggest complaint i see on forums is there is no place to dump crafted items or get materials to keep crafting.
This can be solved by just selling all materials
at a NPC.

I firmly believe an auction house will ruin this game. I love searching for gear in crafters bazaars. its given the game more variety and individuality. Auction houses will only make the game.. the same as FFXI. This is the future and auction houses will only set you back.

Also i think an auction house takes control away from the developers. These people dont know anything about economy.

Example.. you let them make the economy on FFXI..

Then they ******* and complained about it...

But they did it to themselves!!

By selling crafting materials at NPC's..

the developers keep control.!!


If you dont like it. then go play WoW or FFXI for the rest of your life.
I like the game being more life like and putting everyone on the same level.
I like that no auction house makes people work harder.
I made a really good friend because i bought something out of her bazaar.

And that's when it all clicked for me. and i seen how much better this game is
without it


Rayneblood > FFXI

Mojo Rysyn > FFXIV > the new masterpiece.




You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you're wrong, and I don't think you have supported it with any evidence, just your own thoughts.

I think you're blaming the AH device, for the actions of players which will be the same regardless of the market system. Prices rise due to demand. Undercutting happens when the a seller believes the value of an item is less than the current market, and plans to make better profit by selling more. Both of these things will happen with retainers, auction houses, or any other system of exchange that occurs.
____________________________


#72 Oct 06 2010 at 1:14 PM Rating: Default
*
65 posts
DSzymborski wrote:
I really don't understand how the retainer system is more realistic than an auction house.

This isn't a shopping simulator. It no doubt adds a layer of complexity and realism if, when playing a FPS, you occasionally have to take a break to disassemble and clean your weapons and have to file incident reports after killing someone, but it certainly wouldn't make it more fun.


This sums it all up ^.^
#73 Oct 06 2010 at 1:20 PM Rating: Excellent
22 posts
****Why don't you try asking a weaver in your LS, or anywehere? I needed some cotton tabards so I could make sentinels mail, asked, and a weaver gave me three of em at the low low cost of inventory +1. *****

This is like when a starving guy complains about no bread, you tell him: "why don't you eat beef?"

nonsense, not everyone is that lucky.

Edited, Oct 6th 2010 3:22pm by conditionzero
#74SoumaKyou, Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 1:21 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You guys act like Auction Houses have been there since the beginning of MMO's, and that there's no possible way to spark an economy without one.
#75 Oct 06 2010 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
40 posts
Okay, so what is your point? HOW will it ruin the game? Are you saying that the thousands of unused items on the AH in FFXI is ruining the game? Because that's a bit of a stretch.
#76 Oct 06 2010 at 1:52 PM Rating: Good
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3,178 posts
OP:
Very intersting to see someone who is not experienced with forums trying to defend their points. Reminds me of myself attempting something similar in past times.

Nowadays I just post a thought and that's that. We are here to share our thoughts, but rarely succeed in actually changing the perspective of others.

Please, don't get too discouraged if others disagree with you. Don't fall into the trap of trying to convince people that you are an intellegent individual. You know you are, that should be enough. Trying to prove your intellegence actually has the opposite effect intended because most people know (from experience) how pointless it is to do so on a forum.

Welcome to ZAM. The patience you are entreating other's to display towards the game also applies to posting here. Goodluck.

On Topic:
There is a massive split in opinion about the lack of AH. Some people will simply quit if they don't get one. Some want to see, at minimum, improvements to searching, while others actually enjoy the challenge of no AH and no search.

SE is going to re-organize the market wards. No one knows how this will be implemented exactly. This list of new market wards is listed on Lodestone.

This will solve, partially, the frustration of searching through the "market ****" or the Sea of Bazaars blocking access to the Leve counter. It wil not improve the time it takes to view each bazaar. A Mouse-over display of the bazaar items would. At any rate, I doubt a global search will be implemented anytime soon.

It seems reasonable at this point to wait and see what the next update brings.


Edited, Oct 6th 2010 3:53pm by RufuSwho
#77 Oct 06 2010 at 2:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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SoumaKyou wrote:
You guys act like Auction Houses have been there since the beginning of MMO's, and that there's no possible way to spark an economy without one.

Tell me, were EverQuest and Ultima Online successful before the AH feature was even thought up? **** yeah they were. Even the F2P Korean MMO's like Ragnarok Online were big successes without an AH. Did anyone complain about MMO's not having an AH before? Obviously not.

FFXI was one of the first MMO's with an AH, and even that wasn't added until AFTER the JP release. You guys act like FFXI had everything it has currently when it launched.

Stop dreaming and get back to reality. FFXIV falls well within the boundaries of the typical MMO launch.


I played EQ for years and I remember the AH as being the most amazing new feature when I started playing FFXI. I hated standing around in East Commons or Greater Faydark shouting for hours trying to unload the gear I didn't want. My bank was literally full of things I couldn't sell until they finally implemented the bazaar. Why should we go backward with FFXIV?

The market wards that we have now in FFXIV are a mess. I don't have time to manually document the going rate for hundreds of different crafting components that I get out in the field, let alone look for things that I need. I just NPC vendor everything. I don't think looking through the inventories of NPC retainers is any different than an AH, except that it just takes hours to do something that should take five minutes. Most people either get ripped off or, like me, don't bother with the system at all.

... and for those that dislike the blind auction in FFXI, I actually liked it and here is why. It made undercutting others by trivial amounts more difficult because you had no idea what everyone else was selling for. Compare that to bazaar systems in other games and you'll see absurd stuff like:
Player A sells sword for 1 gold
Player B sees that and sells their sword for 99 silver
Player C then sells their sword for 98 silver 99 copper.

I hated having to adjust my items for sale in other games because I was in a bidding war with several other people over a few copper pieces, but people will always buy the cheapest item even if they are all virtually the same price so you were forced to do this. In FFXI I set my items and if they didn't sell in a week I checked the price history once and re-listed.


Edited, Oct 6th 2010 4:11pm by Calispel
#78 Oct 06 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Excellent
5 posts
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:

No thanks. I play games to waste my time as it is. I don't need something in my time waster to waste time while I'm wasting time.


MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY! People aren't looking for a game genie here, just some practicality. I'm sorry, but I don't find hours of lag searching through people's bazaars to be in any way efficient.
#79 Oct 06 2010 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
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95 posts
RedHobbit wrote:
MojoRysyn wrote:

If you dont like it. then go play WoW or FFXI for the rest of your life.


I don't know why people keep saying stuff like this. It has to be one of the most idiotic ideas I have ever heard. What's wrong with making existing things better?

How asinine would it be if the following happened to you:
Bob> Can you replace this flat tire on my Porsche?
Mike (the mechanic)> If you don't like it, go buy a Lotus!
Bob> But I just want my Porsche fixed. Can't you just fix the tire?
Mike> Porsche intended you to use the tires that came with the car. If you don't like that they can go flat, go buy a Lexus.
Bob> But it would be so easy to fix!
Mike> Stop your crying. It's supposed to be difficult. If you want everything spoon fed to you, go buy a Ferrari.


This analogy is full of win.

Edited, Oct 6th 2010 4:52pm by BiggsBeoulve
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#80MojoRysyn, Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 3:10 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Okay, Ive read everyone and their reasons for wanting an auction house.
#81 Oct 06 2010 at 3:26 PM Rating: Excellent
40 posts
MojoRysyn wrote:

To answer someones question: "Why do i think it will it ruin the game?"

It might not 'ruin' the game but it'll just be the same thing over again.
I want something better than the FFXI blind auction house.
There can be so many improvements made to it.
I don't want to see everyone running around wearing the same exact thing.
The game is really beautiful and repetitive gear would hurt the idea
of individuality and creativity that i myself am hoping and looking for in the future of gaming. Of course that could be fixed with more useful gear that's equal to other gear
at the same ranks. I feel the auction house was everyone's copy/paste machine.



I'm not exactly seeing why an auction house would cause everybody to wear the same gear, that seems like more of an issue with the variety of gear that people can craft more than the way people are obtaining said gear. Anyway, right now in FFXIV, everybody is already wearing the same stuff, and there is no auction house. I think an auction house is more likely to make peoples' equipment more varied, considering people could buy armor that favors their class instead of just wearing hempen stuff because it's all they can currently get.

Everybody wore the same gear at certain levels in FFXI because it was the only gear available to them at those levels. This was not because of the auction house, it was because of a lack of variety in armor that Square put into the game.
#82 Oct 06 2010 at 3:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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3,436 posts
MojoRysyn wrote:
[Novella Snipped]


That was certainly more clear.

I don't think anyone's asking for FFXI's exact auction system to just be grafted onto FFXIV... and if they are, no, it's not perfect and needs improving.. it was a very early AH model and the concept has been iterated over and over again in other games and has gotten a lot more refined.

But some form of auction house is pretty necessary in order to keep people from wanting to log off or run around for 30 levels in the same gear rather than deal with the monstrosity that is the Market Ward.

I'm not sure why you're concerned about people wearing the same gear.. you realize this will happen eventually with or without an auction house don't you? As people reach endgame levels and begin whatever that's going to be, they're going to start acquiring the same gear and looking identical to one another simply because whatever they're wearing is the best you can get. An auction house has nothing to do with this concept, it's a side effect of min/maxing which is what anyone looking for efficiency in their activities is going to do. I think a more important improvement to prevent this sort of clone mannequin syndrome, is to implement some way to customize your equipment. But I think everyone will agree that SE has WAY more important things to be getting on with before they even think about something that superficial.

I finally believe you may not be a troll, but do keep in mind as you try to become a part of a community, saying things like "X will ruin the game" or "X is the worst thing I've ever seen" or even "X is the best thing ever and you're stupid if you think otherwise" will earn you a troll label whether or not you actually have something insightful to say

Edited, Oct 6th 2010 4:30pm by Callinon
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#83 Oct 06 2010 at 3:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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2,010 posts
The auction house had nothing to do with the Copy Pasta that was FFXI - the extremely limited gear was. There was nothing better than a Hauby - we all wore it. Even up until 75 there was nothing better, and that was SE's fault and their fear of outdating gear. They got over it now, but FFXI was the sort of game you knew that you could take a year off from playing, and come back to all your gear still being relevant. That's not the AH's fault.

I'll tell you what - you might enjoy this economy but it's a **** poor small one. There are a TON of us who flat out aren't even participating. I looked through three bazaars, and gave up. It was all the same crap that I already had myself from drops. I would LOVE to buy some new equipment from one of those crating-type people, but there is no way I will sift through hundreds of individual people to maybe find something I am interested in. My retainer sells nothing. It's all getting dumped at NPC except thinks I *might* have use for later.

What we have is the exact opposite of an economy. What we have is a joke. I am still trying to figure out why anyone is even defending it. Keeping things this way will not add to diversity. What this is doing is keeping us in starter gear and broken underwear (and in extreme cases - keeping us from even logging in). It's also making those precious crafters have to jump through hoops to find mats.

This is not an economy.

#84MojoRysyn, Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 3:36 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I think somewhere through this thread and thought i have actually
#85 Oct 06 2010 at 3:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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3,436 posts
MojoRysyn wrote:
I think somewhere through this thread and thought i have actually
come to realize why I myself feel this way towards the AH.


The game isn't about and has never been about items or gear to me.
It has and will always be about the adventure and the friends you did it with.
And i realize that THAT is the reason i feel this way about the auction house.


I appreciate that feeling, but then I have to ask... why do you care one way or the other about the presence of an auction house? It sounds to me like it wouldn't impact what you want out of the game one way or the other
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
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#86 Oct 06 2010 at 3:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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1,636 posts
MojoRysyn wrote:
I think somewhere through this thread and thought i have actually
come to realize why I myself feel this way towards the AH.


The game isn't about and has never been about items or gear to me.
It has and will always be about the adventure and the friends you did it with.
And i realize that THAT is the reason i feel this way about the auction house.



I'm not trying to flame/troll or anything, but what does that have to do with an Auction house?
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#87 Oct 06 2010 at 3:40 PM Rating: Excellent
40 posts
Alright, I still don't see how that has anything to do with an auction house, but if you like the current state for no reason at all, more power to you. Just enjoy it while it lasts, because it will change.
#88 Oct 06 2010 at 3:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hyrist, ****** Superhero wrote:

For those complaining about the little extra 'work' it's required to go to different rooms or different cities to search for things, I gotta say that traveling in this game is easy (even walking.) And a bit of convience sacrafice to preserve some true imersion in this game is, on my end at least, tolerable. (It also helps the economy of the game stay at reasonable levels.)


There is no immersion where you have to teleport from on market to the next! Apparently these are different zones. And when I can just leave Ul'dah to enter the surrounding lands as opposed to have to teleport to just visit some kind of market then that makes just no sense. That's no immersion. It's an artificial limit to keep retainers in one place.
#89 Oct 06 2010 at 4:02 PM Rating: Default
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415 posts
Calispel wrote:

I played EQ for years and I remember the AH as being the most amazing new feature when I started playing FFXI. I hated standing around in East Commons or Greater Faydark shouting for hours trying to unload the gear I didn't want. My bank was literally full of things I couldn't sell until they finally implemented the bazaar. Why should we go backward with FFXIV?

Seriously, you guys are all arguing like SE doesn't plan to put an AH in the game. They're waiting, just like they did in FFXI. This is, in no way, backwards. An unnecessary delay? Sure. But you guys really shouldn't be getting all up in arms over something they specifically said that they will add within a certain time frame.

Edited, Oct 6th 2010 6:04pm by SoumaKyou
#90 Oct 06 2010 at 4:11 PM Rating: Default
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9,526 posts
Torrence wrote:


What we have is the exact opposite of an economy. What we have is a joke. I am still trying to figure out why anyone is even defending it. Keeping things this way will not add to diversity. What this is doing is keeping us in starter gear and broken underwear (and in extreme cases - keeping us from even logging in). It's also making those precious crafters have to jump through hoops to find mats.

This is not an economy.



I'm a crafter - level 14 carpenter and level 15 alchemist and I don't find browsing bazaars for mats while standing at a crystal waiting for my LS mates to arrive for leves to be "jumping through hoops."

My LS mates also give me a lot of mats and I give them mats - everyone is happy. Maybe if you tried working with others a bit instead of throwing a temper tantrum and saying "I'm not participating in the economy until it is the way I want it" - you would find the economy. The economy is working just fine.

You can also buy new underwear from an npc - and get them fixed from an npc - so if you are wearing broken underwear it is because you want to.
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#91 Oct 06 2010 at 4:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Don't you love how so many of these arguments end up with the OP basically claiming he's some super successful doctor, lawyer, business owner, etc. with tons of money, a hot wife, etc. etc. LOL. Let's see, how many of these type of posts do you see in video/computer game forums (including the FFXI forums) and what exactly does someone's IRL activities have to do with the original argument? Oh wait - I see - since you're supposedly rich and successful in real life, your arguments regarding FFXIV must of course be correct and we all need to accept that....

Ok back on topic...

I don't see how anyone can walk into one of these market wards and tell me that this is a great system. Every time I even bother walking into a market ward, it just gets worse and worse. All these NPC retainers packed into small rooms - you have to wait several seconds just for a cluster of them to load up on your screen before you can even target them. I fail to see how these market wards promote any type of social environment - can you talk to these retainers or am I missing something? And let's see, how many different market wards are in each city - how many total market wards do you potentially have to search through to find that one item you want?

Has anyone also noticed how many people are just leaving their characters logged in and AFK so they can display their bazaars in the towns - people know no one wants to go into the wards. SE wanted to supposedly avoid congestion such as that in front of the AH of Jeuno in FFXI - well what I'm seeing in this game is much worse than that now.


Quote:
If you dont like it. then go play WoW or FFXI for the rest of your life.
I like the game being more life like and putting everyone on the same level.
I like that no auction house makes people work harder.



1) What does WoW or FFXI have to do with this game? Why do so many defenders of this game make these type of idiotic arguments - do they just want to play on servers with just a few hundred people who can tolerate the game in the current state that it's in? There are people that like many aspects of FFXIV including myself - we just want to see certain major issues fixed so the game can become much better and playable than it is now. No need for snotty asinine ultimatums like this. Don't act like you "own" FFXIV and tell people to "get out of your house"...

2) The game is "life like". So me walking into a "market" and interacting with a bunch of non-responsive robots/dummies stacked on top of each other that have stuff for sale is like real life?

3) Clicking on hundreds of bazaars and searching of an item is not "working harder", it's just wasting people's valuable time.
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#92 Oct 06 2010 at 4:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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2,010 posts
What you are talking about though is leisure time looking for items that aren't immediately required for your next task. There's a few of us who have NO interest in crafting, but still need to get items like armor and weapons. Those things cause you not to be able to progress in leves, and so your comment really has no merit. Eventually, we have to upgrade.

It may be the equivalent of a temper tantrum in your eyes - but I see it as not wasting my time in a system that was not designed with ease of use in mind. Why should I? If you can give me one good reason why I should spend my time looking through bazaar after bazaar after bazaar that may or may not have something I am interested in that may or may not be listed at a price I feel is fair with NO way of comparing prices with others unless I write it down
move on and hope I can find that NPC again and the item is still there.....instead of doing something else that I enjoy - I will recant every single post I have written.

Window shopping is nice, but this has just been taken a little too far.

Edited, Oct 6th 2010 6:22pm by Torrence
#93 Oct 06 2010 at 4:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Judging by remarks like "I bought something and become friends with the seller" or "I browse near crystal" people, who are defending wards don't seem to be aware of their existence. They think idling PCs with bazaars are the "market wards".

#94 Oct 06 2010 at 4:22 PM Rating: Good
12 posts
AH is the only thing that can save this game...xi at launch was leaps and bounds more enjoyable. I do love xiv graphics though...lol

Edited, Oct 6th 2010 6:27pm by Cloudus
#95 Oct 06 2010 at 4:23 PM Rating: Decent
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1,608 posts
Why can't people just use the same AH ***** debate thread?

AH will cut down on everyone's time and will lower prices like a good capitalist system.

That's it. You all type too much!
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#96Olorinus the Vile, Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 4:25 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) No, I am 100 per cent aware of the market wards. I also agree they need work - but SE has already announced changes to satisfy me.
#97 Oct 06 2010 at 4:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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1,636 posts
LyleVertigo wrote:
Why can't people just use the same AH ***** debate thread?

AH will cut down on everyone's time and will lower prices like a good capitalist system.

That's it. You all type too much!



because every couple days someone new comes along thinking they have solved the system, or that their idea is the reason that no AH, or they discovered why retainers will create an awesome community.

Or someone new comes along and tries a new argument to "prove" the pro-retainer people wrong.

really though I just think there isnt much else to talk about, and this seems to be the most polarized idea.
____________________________


#98Olorinus the Vile, Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 4:29 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I was just fine doing leves with my crappy level 1 weapon - even level 20 leves. Was I as effective as I could have been? No. But I got by.
#99 Oct 06 2010 at 4:31 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
MojoRysyn wrote:
To answer someones question: "Why do i think it will it ruin the game?"

It might not 'ruin' the game but it'll just be the same thing over again.
I want something better than the FFXI blind auction house.
There can be so many improvements made to it.
Then why not make the improvements to the system, and then implement that system (an AH or something akin to that)? What's the logic behind "well the system was imperfect so let's just throw the entire thing out completely"?

I wouldn't implement the AH system from FFXI either. It has flaws, it could see improvement. However, having a flawed AH was still VASTLY superior to not having an AH at all. By the way, an auction system will not replace the retainer system. They can run in parallel, just like they had in FFXI.



Edited, Oct 6th 2010 5:34pm by bsphil
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Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
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#100 Oct 06 2010 at 4:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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11,539 posts
MojoRysyn wrote:
Okay, Ive read everyone and their reasons for wanting an auction house.
And everyone has made good points. They make sense.

But,
I think there's far more people out there who support a new improved different system than just throwing in the FFXI auction house.


I was hoping you would say that, because now I have some data to show you.

Poll Question: What are your thoughts on the current economy?
I think it is GREAT the way it is now. I love it and do not want ANY changes made.: 5 (1.6%)
I think it is OKAY the way it is now. A few tiny changes would be okay.: 12 (3.9%)
I think it needs a few minor tweaks before I would be content with it.: 13 (4.3%)
It needs a major overhaul (such as searching) and retainers would be fine with me.: 47 (15.4%)
I would be happy with searchable retainers, but I would SLIGHTLY prefer a traditional Auction House system.: 35 (11.5%)
I would STRONGLY PREFER a traditional Auction House, on top of the retainers that we currently have, but I could tolerate searchable retainers in lieu of an AH: 106 (34.8%)
I -NEED- a traditional Auction House, retainers be damned.: 87 (28.5%)
Total: 305

Out of 305 people that replied, 87 of them are practically demanding an AH, 106 really want an AH, and 35 would prefer an AH. Only 17 people total (12+5) believed the AH was acceptable as-is, with 13 thinking it needs minor tweaks and 47 believing it needs a massive overhaul.

So yeah. There are, in fact, far more people who want an Auction House.

Edited, Oct 6th 2010 6:42pm by Mikhalia
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#101 Oct 06 2010 at 4:46 PM Rating: Decent
4 posts
I don’t think the game needs an action house but something does need to change. I think more organized market wards is a good step forward. I would like to see a search function that puts a floating icon above the retainers that have the particular item you are looking for. The main thing I hated about auction houses is the undercutting, sure it is good for the buyer but what ends up happening is 90% of the items you craft barely make a profit on in fact a lot of the times you are lucky to break even. In this game crafting a single item takes a lot of time and effort and to me if I have to spend time to make something I would like to be able to make back what I put into it plus a little for my time.

This is why I am also against having the search function for the retainers show prices. I see a lot of people whining on the forums about wanting a AH so they can get the absolute lowest price and not pay a penny more. This mentality I think is part of what ruins the economy and a lot of peoples will to craft items. I am not going to spend hours hunting down all the parts I need to make a robe just to sell it for what I got into it, it just is not worth my time.

I think the retainer system will result in a better economy in the long run than what a AH would. Prices will vary from retainer to retainer sometimes you will get lucky and find really good deals and other times you will see people charging outrageous prices. The people who are selling their items for outrageous prices will eventually come down on their price because their items will not sell. The economy will stabilize over time and you will see the more common items will have less variance in their price range from retainer to retainer.
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