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FFXIV just doesn't have that "Magic"Follow

#1 Oct 06 2010 at 2:34 AM Rating: Good
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Game bugs and issues aside, does anyone just not feel that "Magic" they did when they started playing FFXI? All I could remember was thinking about FFXI all the time and how I wanted to play it so bad. I just felt totally emersed in the world and couldn't wait to explore. I traveled all over the place and remembered how cool it was to see a new area for the first time. Everything about the world was just so magical and exciting.

I just don't feel this at all with FFXIV, maybe I've matured (I was 16 when i started FFXI now I'm 22). I'm not sure but I just got all nostalgic about FFXI right now. I know FFXIV is not supposed to be a sequel but I was just hoping for that similar feeling to hit me when I played it.
#2 Oct 06 2010 at 2:39 AM Rating: Good
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You have to change your equipment to wands/rods to feel the magic.

ok joking aside, I am addicted to crafting in FFXIV but I can definitely see what you mean. Being mature isn't the problem tho, I'm sure I'll still love FFXI if I start playing it again right now. The game is just beautiful.

Edited, Oct 6th 2010 4:40am by Jazalas
#3 Oct 06 2010 at 2:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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FFXI was a major pain for me when I started (NA release.) Started as WHM, everything outside Ronfaure took me forever to kill. It wasn't until I gimped my way to 50 DRG and then restarted did I actually feel the 'magic.'
It was just so confusing the first time around I just had no idea to all the subtleties of the game, plus it wasn't even possible to achieve anything hard when you're some gimp *** DRG with no other friends around your level. So yeah, couldn't even break G1 at the time. It sucked.

My point is, until you can actually play the game and find it enjoyable no magic is going to happen.

Edited, Oct 6th 2010 4:52am by sylph19
#4 Oct 06 2010 at 2:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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i do know what you mean, it's missing that "Je Nous Se Qua" but i do get the feeling of the "Magic!" when i'm playing the actually main scenario quests, but they are too spread out and too short, then its back to ffxiv as we know it
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#5 Oct 06 2010 at 2:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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WillCider wrote:
Game bugs and issues aside, does anyone just not feel that "Magic" they did when they started playing FFXI? All I could remember was thinking about FFXI all the time and how I wanted to play it so bad. I just felt totally emersed in the world and couldn't wait to explore. I traveled all over the place and remembered how cool it was to see a new area for the first time. Everything about the world was just so magical and exciting.

I just don't feel this at all with FFXIV, maybe I've matured (I was 16 when i started FFXI now I'm 22). I'm not sure but I just got all nostalgic about FFXI right now. I know FFXIV is not supposed to be a sequel but I was just hoping for that similar feeling to hit me when I played it.


It doesn't have that magic for me, but I expect that's because FFXI was my first MMO, you never forget your first love, and nothing has compared to that feeling and I've tried many MMOs since.
#6 Oct 06 2010 at 3:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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My problem is that besides missions, FFXI also had quests. Some of those quests have stories that I remember in detail today. That was a large part of the "magic" for me. NPCs weren't just NPCs, they were actually characters in their own right.

FFXIV has assignments doled out by a dispensary that may as well be faceless. Those assignments take on either one of two forms: run somewhere and kill something, or run somewhere and craft something. In FFXI I was sometimes told to go talk to someone as part of a quest, and my immediate thought would be, "Oh man, it's that guy!" That was nice. Too bad it doesn't look like there's going to be much of that here.

There are missions, but right now those missions amount to a few short cut-scenes and a couple barely-mentionable fights. They're not bad cutscenes, but the tastiest table scraps in the world are still scraps.

I got immersed in FFXI's world because there was a world there to get immersed in. FFXIV doesn't have a world. It has terrain with some monsters running about on it. Sometimes you are told to kill them by someone, but his name might as well be "Mr. Someone."

#7 Oct 06 2010 at 3:53 AM Rating: Decent
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WillCider wrote:
Game bugs and issues aside, does anyone just not feel that "Magic" they did when they started playing FFXI? All I could remember was thinking about FFXI all the time and how I wanted to play it so bad. I just felt totally emersed in the world and couldn't wait to explore. I traveled all over the place and remembered how cool it was to see a new area for the first time. Everything about the world was just so magical and exciting.

I just don't feel this at all with FFXIV, maybe I've matured (I was 16 when i started FFXI now I'm 22). I'm not sure but I just got all nostalgic about FFXI right now. I know FFXIV is not supposed to be a sequel but I was just hoping for that similar feeling to hit me when I played it.


I totally see where you're coming from, but you have to keep in mind we got XI with an expasion on it. Try and picture XI without the zilart areas and without things being as functional.
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#8 Oct 06 2010 at 4:09 AM Rating: Decent
ok at 22 your not exactly mature. lol I mean as amn looking back from the 40 mark. Secondly, FFXI is a differant game with a LONG longhistory and Frikin Loads of exspansions. I miss it too played it from day one and 6 years later. But familiarity is not better my friend.
Give it time and this world will be home aswell. Game Jst came out.
Sure some of us been playng 2 months or more, BUT it just came out on the 30 th technicly so... fixes first, then exspansions. But realisticly, the game has PLENTY of areas to go so far. plenty of dangerous mobs to find yet, plenty of areas to die in NOT related to leve or synthin. I think your scope is to big for the narrow area youv been in so far.
#9 Oct 06 2010 at 4:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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I have to agree. FFXIV doesn't give me the feeling FFXI did. But then again FFXI was the first "real" MMORPG I played and that was something new and fascinating. Also having to party with others wasn't only a pain but a nice way to meet and befriend new people. If you'd really get bonus EXP/SP for playing in a party anytime soon that might happen in FFXIV again and that would be great.

The storyline quests are good so far but it would be great if you're told your level is too low to continue instead of letting you stand there and guess where the storyline continues. At least put some info in the journal to come back and talk to XYZ NPC at a later time to continue the storyline.

The missions of FFXI are replaced by the faction leves but I haven't done one yet so I won't comment on how they are.

Quests from NPCs shouldn't be hard to implement and I hope SE will do so in the future to make the world look more alive and not so static.
I also hope class-quests will make a comeback so you have to finish a quest before you can play a new class once they release more of them.

A problem with boss fights or fights in general during quests are the DoH and DoL. There is simply not much they can do when it comes to fights and since SE designed the main storyline to be soloable for the most part they took out the traditional boss fights so that even the DoHs and DoLs can play without leveling a DoW or DoM.
It would be great though if oldschool boss battles could be implemented again in some form. I still remember the excitement of fighting that first dragon during the FFXI mission quests or the shadowlord. Even traveling was an adventure.

That's something FFXIV lacks too. The areas are beautiful and all but they are empty. Sometimes I can run minutes without seeing a single mob. There don't have to be masses of them, don't get me wrong, but there should be more wildlife out there.

There IS magic in FFXIV but we're either too low to really get into it or it's not as dense as it should be. I won't give up hope that FFXIV will become the game I want it to be in the future. I've played FFXI long enough to see how long it takes till it will get there but maybe SE will be faster this time.
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#10 Oct 06 2010 at 4:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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I agree with the OP. I've been trying to nail down what the actual problem is here and I think it's a combination of things. Big empty repetitive world + little social interaction (caused by the awful chat design) + lack of story (caused by lack of quests) = a soulless game. While I can work around most of the other issues, the total lack of atmosphere really kills the game for me.
#11 Oct 06 2010 at 6:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Keitre wrote:
My problem is that besides missions, FFXI also had quests. Some of those quests have stories that I remember in detail today. That was a large part of the "magic" for me. NPCs weren't just NPCs, they were actually characters in their own right.

FFXIV has assignments doled out by a dispensary that may as well be faceless. Those assignments take on either one of two forms: run somewhere and kill something, or run somewhere and craft something. In FFXI I was sometimes told to go talk to someone as part of a quest, and my immediate thought would be, "Oh man, it's that guy!" That was nice. Too bad it doesn't look like there's going to be much of that here.

There are missions, but right now those missions amount to a few short cut-scenes and a couple barely-mentionable fights. They're not bad cutscenes, but the tastiest table scraps in the world are still scraps.

I got immersed in FFXI's world because there was a world there to get immersed in. FFXIV doesn't have a world. It has terrain with some monsters running about on it. Sometimes you are told to kill them by someone, but his name might as well be "Mr. Someone."



This is quite a big problem I've seen so far. I've explained it time and time over. They make a system like guildleve so they can market it as "New and innovative!" but all it is really is a simplified questing system without the actual "quests" involved. It gives you flavor text saying "So and so and So and So need you to kill 4 of these because" and you go kill them. There's no getting a neat cut scene, there's no interesting dialogue with NPC's, it's just like simple fetch quests.

I always thought the video showing the adventurer accepting guildleves really made no sense. Why are you accepting magical cards that have you go kill things instead of entering in a quest, a journey, a adventure, a story. Why are these adventurers standing around a room accepting magical cards so they can go fight battles for no real reason? Wouldn't it make more sense if you have to go fight something for an actual specific reason...?

Aside from that, while the world is absolutely beautiful it's just not as creative as Vana Diel was. I even think some other MMORPG's *cough* have more creatively designed worlds. In all honesty it just seems like a very bland place, not counting the cities themselves but mainly the outdoor areas. There's just not quite enough diversity and even the maps are just big cluster @#%^s that go on forever and repeat scenery all too often.

The world of Eorzea is just not very captivating. Beautiful? Yes, absolutely. But there's too much of the same thing over and over. Again, I believe it's stemmed from trying to cut development costs and trying to rush the game to release.

I absolutely agree. Eorzea just lacks the depth that Vana Diel had. It lacks the creativity and uniqueness. However, I'm just fine with the world itself. I don't really expect anything to live up to the masterpiece that Vana Diel is, I'm just sad that Square Enix didn't continue properly developing Vana Diel like it should have been. I'm also frustrated at all the well... The way FFXIV is being handled at the moment. The world itself is the least of my worries, I just want the game to become a bit more "playable".

Edited, Oct 6th 2010 5:37am by EndlessJourney
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#12 Oct 06 2010 at 7:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kkes wrote:
ok at 22 your not exactly mature. lol I mean as amn looking back from the 40 mark. Secondly, FFXI is a differant game with a LONG longhistory and Frikin Loads of exspansions. I miss it too played it from day one and 6 years later. But familiarity is not better my friend.
Give it time and this world will be home aswell. Game Jst came out.
Sure some of us been playng 2 months or more, BUT it just came out on the 30 th technicly so... fixes first, then exspansions. But realisticly, the game has PLENTY of areas to go so far. plenty of dangerous mobs to find yet, plenty of areas to die in NOT related to leve or synthin. I think your scope is to big for the narrow area youv been in so far.


Eh, I get what you're saying, but I agree with the OP and I've been playing MMOs since the days of MUDs and NwN (AoL). :p I already made a post like this once, and I don't want to just retread that, so let me put it another way a bit more succinctly.

FFXI was rough around the edges for its release, but it still had charm, and it still felt like Final Fantasy. With the early issues it had, the general reaction was almost like, "Aww isn't that cute that a company used to making RPGs like Square is doing it this way... that's so console!" And as we all know, they fixed most of the major issues along the way.

What people are feeling now is the confusion and disappointment over a game that has actually regressed from the initial release of its previous game. The lack of quests, story, personality, and creative environments coupled with bad design choices, poor programming, and most of all the menu UI lag has people back on their heels. And the sometimes defensive, often muted response of the design team makes people feel even worse.

How many of us had this conversation with someone while defending XI in the early days (I know I did):
"Yeah, I know the menu is kind of cumbersome. But it's Final Fantasy, man! Gotta have the menu. And you get the convoluted storylines... make sure there's some ephemeral ideas about energy coming from the human spirit or something! It just... feels so Japanese. It's Final Fantasy, haha! Yeah I know, I keep saying that a lot. But it is! It is so cool to go into your Mog House, have your own Moogle, change into being a classic job from the FIRST final Fantasy, let alone all of the other ones, and go outside and listen to the fantastic music and explore the varied environments and see the chocobos run by... just wild. Yeah, if you haven't grown up around Final Fantasy then you just don't get it, sorry."

Okay, so much for being succinct. But this is what people mean by Final Fantasy "magic". It's gone.
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#13 Oct 06 2010 at 7:36 AM Rating: Good
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FFXIV does have the "Magic" but it just has too many problems :(
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#14 Oct 06 2010 at 7:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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To me, the lack of "magic" is in the detail. There are rather little things to look forward when you advance in this game. In FF11, there were the next zones you will be going. There were the new skills coming and it look DIFFERENT than the one you are using. There were new equipments to buy, and even if you bough it, you won't be able to wear it until you hit the magic lvl.

Not saying 14 doesn't have those at all, just comparatively speaking....less. Of cause, I can't say for the later how much it will change. Another thing is the world just doesn't seem to as dangerous. How often you go out and get pwned upside the head by aggro monster in 14? In 11, if I'm lvl 10 and I want to go somewhere, my eyes would be darting left and right spotting Goblins, Beastmen and all the other thing that can punt me back to my home point.
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#15 Oct 06 2010 at 7:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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RyderDecree wrote:
i do know what you mean, it's missing that "Je Nous Se Qua" but i do get the feeling of the "Magic!" when i'm playing the actually main scenario quests, but they are too spread out and too short, then its back to ffxiv as we know it

On behalf of French-speaking Tarutarus everywhere:

"je ne sais quoi"

\<^_^>/

Disclaimer: I don't actually-factually speak French. I can barely manage your Hume speakies!
#16 Oct 06 2010 at 8:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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EndlessJourney wrote:
Keitre wrote:
My problem is that besides missions, FFXI also had quests. Some of those quests have stories that I remember in detail today. That was a large part of the "magic" for me. NPCs weren't just NPCs, they were actually characters in their own right.

FFXIV has assignments doled out by a dispensary that may as well be faceless. Those assignments take on either one of two forms: run somewhere and kill something, or run somewhere and craft something. In FFXI I was sometimes told to go talk to someone as part of a quest, and my immediate thought would be, "Oh man, it's that guy!" That was nice. Too bad it doesn't look like there's going to be much of that here.

There are missions, but right now those missions amount to a few short cut-scenes and a couple barely-mentionable fights. They're not bad cutscenes, but the tastiest table scraps in the world are still scraps.

I got immersed in FFXI's world because there was a world there to get immersed in. FFXIV doesn't have a world. It has terrain with some monsters running about on it. Sometimes you are told to kill them by someone, but his name might as well be "Mr. Someone."



This is quite a big problem I've seen so far. I've explained it time and time over. They make a system like guildleve so they can market it as "New and innovative!" but all it is really is a simplified questing system without the actual "quests" involved. It gives you flavor text saying "So and so and So and So need you to kill 4 of these because" and you go kill them. There's no getting a neat cut scene, there's no interesting dialogue with NPC's, it's just like simple fetch quests.

I always thought the video showing the adventurer accepting guildleves really made no sense. Why are you accepting magical cards that have you go kill things instead of entering in a quest, a journey, a adventure, a story. Why are these adventurers standing around a room accepting magical cards so they can go fight battles for no real reason? Wouldn't it make more sense if you have to go fight something for an actual specific reason...?

Aside from that, while the world is absolutely beautiful it's just not as creative as Vana Diel was. I even think some other MMORPG's *cough* have more creatively designed worlds. In all honesty it just seems like a very bland place, not counting the cities themselves but mainly the outdoor areas. There's just not quite enough diversity and even the maps are just big cluster @#%^s that go on forever and repeat scenery all too often.

The world of Eorzea is just not very captivating. Beautiful? Yes, absolutely. But there's too much of the same thing over and over. Again, I believe it's stemmed from trying to cut development costs and trying to rush the game to release.

I absolutely agree. Eorzea just lacks the depth that Vana Diel had. It lacks the creativity and uniqueness. However, I'm just fine with the world itself. I don't really expect anything to live up to the masterpiece that Vana Diel is, I'm just sad that Square Enix didn't continue properly developing Vana Diel like it should have been. I'm also frustrated at all the well... The way FFXIV is being handled at the moment. The world itself is the least of my worries, I just want the game to become a bit more "playable".

Edited, Oct 6th 2010 5:37am by EndlessJourney


I can't agree more with what's being said. This game does not have a soul, it's a bunch of faceless empty vessels simply going through the day completing their various grinds, hoping for something more. We're no longer adventurers, we're garbage men.

That feeling of butterflies when entering a new zone is gone. So I heard the game was suppose to be seamless, which I took to mean, the zones would naturally transition into each other, thought about how cool that would be in FFXI, and got excited, now I think it was more an excuse to just not have to come up with so many different looks for zones.

Honestly if I thought the product was going to be this bad, I would've rather had them just make FFXI with slight alterations to the job, and an upgrade to the graphics. Honestly, I would've preffered if they just took the exact layout of FFXI's zones, and modeled new environments over it, while keeping the uniqueness of each of them.

I don't even know why I log on anymore, I guess it's hope... hope that there's going to be something that makes me feel like an adventurer again.

I thought the same thing about the intro cinematic, at first I was taken by the good graphics, but that wore off throughout the cutscene, and I honestly just felt like it started to drag on, I didn't feel connected to the world, or interested, or understanding at all.

FFXI's intro cutscene gave me shivers, it honestly gave me shivers every time I re-subscribed to the game, and gave it another watch. The first time I watched it, I think a tear rolled down my eye because I was so happy. I felt like I had a goal already, a purpose. Seeing that city fall, and then you see that kid come back all grown up, and everybody else comes up behind him... from that point on, i never wanted to stop exploring, leveling, seeing things in that game. I still get shivers up and down my spine talking about it.
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#17 Oct 06 2010 at 8:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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WillCider wrote:
Game bugs and issues aside, does anyone just not feel that "Magic" they did when they started playing FFXI? All I could remember was thinking about FFXI all the time and how I wanted to play it so bad. I just felt totally emersed in the world and couldn't wait to explore. I traveled all over the place and remembered how cool it was to see a new area for the first time. Everything about the world was just so magical and exciting.

I just don't feel this at all with FFXIV, maybe I've matured (I was 16 when i started FFXI now I'm 22). I'm not sure but I just got all nostalgic about FFXI right now. I know FFXIV is not supposed to be a sequel but I was just hoping for that similar feeling to hit me when I played it.



Yeah for me that is the same but it might be because FFXI was my very first mmorpg so i totally got covered of that world. No game After FFXI and not even FFXI did have that success in my mind later on.

I think it is a bit unfair thinking if you compare different games with your feelings playing them.

I for myself hope that there will be a big patch soon which makes at least a few things better. Because one thing is sure for me... no other game than FFXIV can get close to the "feeling" and "magic" which i had back then at ffxi.
#18 Oct 06 2010 at 8:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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I remember when I first started FFXI I was completely awed at how big the cities were. I had started out in Bastok, and didn't realize there were 4 zones in the city, so everytime I walked somewhere I was like... "wait... THERES MORE????" That's something I don't feel immediately in FFXIV.

However, I DO feel an attachment to my character this time around. In FFXI I restarted so many times, and I had so many different characters. But this time, I finally found the right character for me.

I think part of the "lack of immersion" that I hear so much about is the lack of casual chatting due to the chat system being so awkward. In FFXI, it was neat walking around and hearing adventurer friends just chatting about normal stuff, or what adventure they were planning next. In FFXIV, its like... even though you SEE other players... its almost like they're invisible. Like how in Demon Souls you can see other players running through the game but you can't interact with them. It makes it feel lonely.

The storyline holds the magic in it for me though. I know its scarce at the moment, but whats there I love. That first cutscene raised lots of questions and really drew me in. It was different than FFXI in that YOU are a part of the story, not just a witness to it. I love that.
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#19 Oct 06 2010 at 8:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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I agree that the game cant' really compare to FFXI in terms of allure at its current stage. I can relate to ppl when they say that they don't get the same thrill and "magic" when exploring Eorzea as they did Vanadial. But i think we really need to put it into perspective and realize that FFXIV is far from being polished and has so much potential. It's that potential that is keeping me excited, and i know that the devs at SE have bigger ideas planned for the game. i think come march when the PS3 players hit the game we will see a far more accurate reflection of what the game will really be like from those players. For the most part i believe we are all just guinea pigs for the time being while the developers learn and tweak the necessary things to make this game incredible. As for guildleves, I think they are a great introductory system for players to the game mechanics (albeit being extrememly linear) but I don't think they will play a HUGE role when this game eventually evolves into end game content in the distant future.

As for the person who thinks Eorzea is NOT a dangerous place.. i have to completely disagree. On my way to finding Ishgard, it was a nerve racking trek especially since I was only a level 12 PUG at the time. I was duckign and hiding in corners just as I did the first time i explored the boyahda tree, and still got killed a few times before I finally reached it.

Bottom line is, if we keep comparing it to FFXI (the version that most of us were accustomed to, not the version the JPs got from initial release) i think there will be many disillusioned players who may feel FFXIV falls short of expectations. But if you look at the big picture, this game has potential to be really special. And knowing that bigger and better things will come eventually will help me to continue grinding through these early stages of the game.
#20 Oct 06 2010 at 9:06 AM Rating: Good
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As a side note, FFXI was my first MMO, but even when I took a break to try WoW, I still got that new MMO/adventuring feeling, making me want to explore and progress.

This feeling does not exist in FFXIV for me.
____________________________
There once was a tiger striped cat. This cat died a million deaths and was reborn a million times and was owned by various people who he didn't care for. The cat wasn't afraid to die... One day, the cat was a free cat, a stray cat. He met a white female cat, and the two cats spent their days happily together. Years passed, and the white cat died of old age. The tiger striped cat cried a million times, and then died. It never
came back to life.
#21 Oct 06 2010 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
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Might I add, if you didn't start in Uldah, you're missing out on some cool characters in the game.
#22 Oct 06 2010 at 10:48 AM Rating: Decent
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sylph19 wrote:
Might I add, if you didn't start in Uldah, you're missing out on some cool characters in the game.


Agreed.
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#23 Oct 06 2010 at 11:55 AM Rating: Decent
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You know I'd really like the opinion of a person who played XI since JP release, I mean we hear bits and pieces from time to time, but I want a full out comparison week 1 XI vs week 1 XIV.

NA players can't really do that. We played at the earliest 2ish years after the game had been out. It had some bugs and such, but was the story so fulfilling because it'd had 2 years to become fleshed out? I mean c'mon alot of people on here didn't even start until PS2 or XBox release, there were 2 expansions around that time period.

To answer the OP, no I'm definately missing a few things. There are a few areas where I think they should have added a wandering NPC or at least some mobs. Then the outlying cities, they have people... but at least the one by Gridania has no buildings you can enter and the NPCs are most likely just placeholders. So those places feel empty. BUT I know since they are there, eventually something meaningful will be.
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#24 Oct 06 2010 at 12:38 PM Rating: Decent
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PerrinofSylph wrote:
You know I'd really like the opinion of a person who played XI since JP release, I mean we hear bits and pieces from time to time, but I want a full out comparison week 1 XI vs week 1 XIV.

NA players can't really do that. We played at the earliest 2ish years after the game had been out. It had some bugs and such, but was the story so fulfilling because it'd had 2 years to become fleshed out? I mean c'mon alot of people on here didn't even start until PS2 or XBox release, there were 2 expansions around that time period.

To answer the OP, no I'm definately missing a few things. There are a few areas where I think they should have added a wandering NPC or at least some mobs. Then the outlying cities, they have people... but at least the one by Gridania has no buildings you can enter and the NPCs are most likely just placeholders. So those places feel empty. BUT I know since they are there, eventually something meaningful will be.



Why do people compare, or even want to compare a game that was released in 2010, with a game that was released in 2002 for PS2 in Japan.???? ESPECIALLY when they were developed and released by the same company. Don't you expect more from Car companies each year?? How about Graphics cards for your PC's??? don't the standard raise with every new model???

How about you compare FFXIV with today's standards for mmorpg launch. How many games released in the last year lack the basic support structure i.e navigable UI, Inventory sort, Targeting system that don't suck, chat system thats not broken, etc, etc. EVERYONE knows that launches are usually miserable times for ANY mmorpg. This is when the user will experience server lag, bug's/glitches, exploits, and dc's, along with maintenance almost daily. We ALLLLLLLLLLL know this. What most people are upset about, is the non existence of some pretty basic and standard features in todays MMO's.

I can just see microsoft releasing windows 8 in 2012, it will have no more shortcuts, no more tiling or cascading (only one window open at a time), and it also will not come with accesories of any sort... just to be different. Instead you will have to quadruple click icons to open their corresponding programs, sometimes leading you to more menu's which have to be tripled clicked. You will also type in binary code. No more qwerty keyboards, just 1's and 0's...just to be different. At this time every person that loves FFXIV will drool down their chest and sing praises to Bill gates, while the rest of the world stops using Windows.
#25 Oct 06 2010 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
***
3,530 posts
WillCider wrote:
does anyone just not feel that "Magic" they did when they started playing FFXI? ...I traveled all over the place and remembered how cool it was to see a new area for the first time. Everything about the world was just so magical and exciting.


Of course I don't: I'm not 14 years old anymore; it's not my first online game.

I'm also not naive enough to rest blame on "lack of magic" instead of "different/matured tastes." You, probably like most of us, had fun "just walkin' around the zones" at a time when FFXI was your first online game, or was played when you were just maturing (a time when people must latch on to something for guidance), or was perhaps your longest-running game by several years.

I'm sorry to say it, but you will never have fun simply wandering aimlessly through a zone again; the fact that you ever did was a result of something other than the "magic" that FFXIV "lacks."

I remember playing certain video games for hours, many dozens of hours, when I was younger; I remember clocking over 180 hours on FFVII when it first came out. I would fight monsters all day just because the animations were cool -- I didn't really even understand the concept of grinding! Sometimes I revisit those ghosts of the past and realise that they are so bad as to be unplayable; sometimes I revisit them and can't see how it was even possible that I could have spent more than 60 or 70 hours on FFVII. Such old games may possess nostalgia, and new ones may seem never able to fill their place, but that is not so much a fault of their being different as the payer being different.

I've even read about the prevalent tendency for individuals to recall the past with an over-inflated level of fondness. It has been studied rather heavily, and been around for so long that there's even the Latin phrase memoria praeteritorum bonorum -- "The past is always recalled to be good."

In short, there are so many other answers to be found, I would not resort to hindsight-influenced "magic" as an explanation just yet.
____________________________
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"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

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#26 Oct 06 2010 at 1:03 PM Rating: Decent
*
65 posts
KaneKitty wrote:
WillCider wrote:
does anyone just not feel that "Magic" they did when they started playing FFXI? ...I traveled all over the place and remembered how cool it was to see a new area for the first time. Everything about the world was just so magical and exciting.


Of course I don't: I'm not 14 years old anymore; it's not my first online game.

I'm also not naive enough to rest blame on "lack of magic" instead of "different/matured tastes." You, probably like most of us, had fun "just walkin' around the zones" at a time when FFXI was your first online game, or was played when you were just maturing (a time when people must latch on to something for guidance), or was perhaps your longest-running game by several years.

I'm sorry to say it, but you will never have fun simply wandering aimlessly through a zone again; the fact that you ever did was a result of something other than the "magic" that FFXIV "lacks."

I remember playing certain video games for hours, many dozens of hours, when I was younger; I remember clocking over 180 hours on FFVII when it first came out. I would fight monsters all day just because the animations were cool -- I didn't really even understand the concept of grinding! Sometimes I revisit those ghosts of the past and realise that they are so bad as to be unplayable; sometimes I revisit them and can't see how it was even possible that I could have spent more than 60 or 70 hours on FFVII. Such old games may possess nostalgia, and new ones may seem never able to fill their place, but that is not so much a fault of their being different as the payer being different.

I've even read about the prevalent tendency for individuals to recall the past with an over-inflated level of fondness. It has been studied rather heavily, and been around for so long that there's even the Latin phrase memoria praeteritorum bonorum -- "The past is always recalled to be good."

In short, there are so many other answers to be found, I would not resort to hindsight-influenced "magic" as an explanation just yet.


This is garbage.

The reason that myself and probably the majority of players that were feeling the "Magic" with FFXI was not that we were 14, nor mmo virgins.

The fact is the linear progression of your character was immersive. The storyline's and cutscenes were so well done, that players felt a part of the story line. You felt you had a responsibility to grow as an adventurer, not to get to endgame to kill this boss for that drop, but to make your noobie rank 1 into a hero of Vanadiel. You also felt a connection to your community, as reputation really mattered in FFXI. You had to be social in order to succeed unless you were just content with playing BST.

You didn't go to some quest hub because SE was lazy and just consolidated all quests... errr leves... to one single NPC. You had to explore and interact with all NPC's wether it be to learn about your backstory, or progress with your characters. You had multiple zones that all looked and felt different. Not some Huge expansive zone that looks identical wether your doing level 1 leves, or level 20 leves.

I could go on and on, but the fact that you felt like you were an important part, as an adventurer, is what made FFXI so addicting and "magical".
#27 Oct 06 2010 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
**
415 posts
Quote:
How about you compare FFXIV with today's standards for mmorpg launch. How many games released in the last year lack the basic support structure i.e navigable UI, Inventory sort, Targeting system that don't suck, chat system thats not broken, etc, etc.

You've obviously never played at the launch of an MMO, so please stop talking as if you have experience with them.
#28 Oct 06 2010 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
106 posts
KaneKitty wrote:
WillCider wrote:
does anyone just not feel that "Magic" they did when they started playing FFXI? ...I traveled all over the place and remembered how cool it was to see a new area for the first time. Everything about the world was just so magical and exciting.


Of course I don't: I'm not 14 years old anymore; it's not my first online game.

I'm also not naive enough to rest blame on "lack of magic" instead of "different/matured tastes." You, probably like most of us, had fun "just walkin' around the zones" at a time when FFXI was your first online game, or was played when you were just maturing (a time when people must latch on to something for guidance), or was perhaps your longest-running game by several years.

I'm sorry to say it, but you will never have fun simply wandering aimlessly through a zone again; the fact that you ever did was a result of something other than the "magic" that FFXIV "lacks."

I remember playing certain video games for hours, many dozens of hours, when I was younger; I remember clocking over 180 hours on FFVII when it first came out. I would fight monsters all day just because the animations were cool -- I didn't really even understand the concept of grinding! Sometimes I revisit those ghosts of the past and realise that they are so bad as to be unplayable; sometimes I revisit them and can't see how it was even possible that I could have spent more than 60 or 70 hours on FFVII. Such old games may possess nostalgia, and new ones may seem never able to fill their place, but that is not so much a fault of their being different as the payer being different.

I've even read about the prevalent tendency for individuals to recall the past with an over-inflated level of fondness. It has been studied rather heavily, and been around for so long that there's even the Latin phrase memoria praeteritorum bonorum -- "The past is always recalled to be good."

In short, there are so many other answers to be found, I would not resort to hindsight-influenced "magic" as an explanation just yet.


I think your missing something, you played FFVII that long because it was a good game. Just because I'm older doesn't mean I don't get totally immersed in games that really appeal to me. **** I spent over 100 hours playing Demons Souls for the PS3. I've been playing DOTA or today HON for 10 years now, it just has that appeal to me. I know I'm comparing different game genres but all I'm saying is some games have that "Soul" that makes you keep playing. Vanadiel had Soul whereas Eorzea seems to just be a barren wasteland.
#29 Oct 06 2010 at 1:18 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
106 posts
SoumaKyou wrote:
Quote:
How about you compare FFXIV with today's standards for mmorpg launch. How many games released in the last year lack the basic support structure i.e navigable UI, Inventory sort, Targeting system that don't suck, chat system thats not broken, etc, etc.

You've obviously never played at the launch of an MMO, so please stop talking as if you have experience with them.


Uh I've played at launch of several MMOs. He's right, they dropped the ball on a lot of minor things that should be there at launch that others have. The only real excuse at launch for MMOs should be server lag, disconnects, and certain bugs. The fundamentals of the game such as the UI, inventory, and chat system should be hammered out before it releases.
#30 Oct 06 2010 at 1:25 PM Rating: Default
*
65 posts
SoumaKyou wrote:

You've obviously never played at the launch of an MMO, so please stop talking as if you have experience with them.


You realize that being a nerd doesn't mean that your smart right, Nor does it make you any better at making assumptions. I have played through quite a few mmo releases over the last 10 years and I must say FFXIV, to me, is the worst of all of them. I am not ignorant to the fact that it is 2010, and major design flaws and failure to implement basic features is just unacceptable.
#31 Oct 06 2010 at 1:26 PM Rating: Default
10 posts
Quote:
You've obviously never played at the launch of an MMO, so please stop talking as if you have experience with them.


And you obviously can't tell the difference between the standard launch bugs and glitches that all MMOs suffer from and the type of systemic design disaster that FFXIV is.
#32 Oct 06 2010 at 1:44 PM Rating: Good
**
415 posts
WillCider wrote:
SoumaKyou wrote:
Quote:
How about you compare FFXIV with today's standards for mmorpg launch. How many games released in the last year lack the basic support structure i.e navigable UI, Inventory sort, Targeting system that don't suck, chat system thats not broken, etc, etc.

You've obviously never played at the launch of an MMO, so please stop talking as if you have experience with them.


Uh I've played at launch of several MMOs. He's right, they dropped the ball on a lot of minor things that should be there at launch that others have. The only real excuse at launch for MMOs should be server lag, disconnects, and certain bugs. The fundamentals of the game such as the UI, inventory, and chat system should be hammered out before it releases.

Please. Every game to date has suffered from missing and/or unintuitive basic features, such as chat and mail. WoW still doesn't have an inventory sorting feature. It didn't even get a LFG system until way later on, and even a simple LFG chat channel wasn't added until after release. You couldn't even have more than one action bar up until later on. Some games don't even have a tab target feature.

Xclusive215 wrote:
You realize that being a nerd doesn't mean that your smart right, Nor does it make you any better at making assumptions. I have played through quite a few mmo releases over the last 10 years and I must say FFXIV, to me, is the worst of all of them. I am not ignorant to the fact that it is 2010, and major design flaws and failure to implement basic features is just unacceptable.

Oh no! The "you're a nerd" insult! I think you're on to something there.

You keep mentioning that it's 2010. Congratulations, you know what year it is. Do you want a cookie? Do you know what relevance year makes to the gaming industry? Nothing. You act as if games attempt to mimic every game that has come before it. If that were the case, we'd never have any new games to play because they'd all be the same.

Magiocracy wrote:
Quote:
You've obviously never played at the launch of an MMO, so please stop talking as if you have experience with them.


And you obviously can't tell the difference between the standard launch bugs and glitches that all MMOs suffer from and the type of systemic design disaster that FFXIV is.

Oh no, FFXIV is missing an Auction House and has a broken chat system! That must mean it's inferior to other games!

I urge you to look through the patch logs of other games and tell me if you find anything familiar.


Edited, Oct 6th 2010 4:00pm by SoumaKyou
#33 Oct 06 2010 at 2:00 PM Rating: Default
10 posts
SoumaKyou wrote:
WillCider wrote:
SoumaKyou wrote:
Quote:
How about you compare FFXIV with today's standards for mmorpg launch. How many games released in the last year lack the basic support structure i.e navigable UI, Inventory sort, Targeting system that don't suck, chat system thats not broken, etc, etc.

You've obviously never played at the launch of an MMO, so please stop talking as if you have experience with them.


Uh I've played at launch of several MMOs. He's right, they dropped the ball on a lot of minor things that should be there at launch that others have. The only real excuse at launch for MMOs should be server lag, disconnects, and certain bugs. The fundamentals of the game such as the UI, inventory, and chat system should be hammered out before it releases.

Please. Every game to date has suffered from missing and/or unintuitive basic features, such as chat and mail. WoW still doesn't have an inventory sorting feature. Some games don't even have a tab target feature.

Xclusive215 wrote:
You realize that being a nerd doesn't mean that your smart right, Nor does it make you any better at making assumptions. I have played through quite a few mmo releases over the last 10 years and I must say FFXIV, to me, is the worst of all of them. I am not ignorant to the fact that it is 2010, and major design flaws and failure to implement basic features is just unacceptable.

Oh no! The "you're a nerd" insult! I think you're on to something there.

You keep mentioning that it's 2010. Congratulations, you know what year it is. Do you want a cookie? Do you know what relevance year makes to the gaming industry? Nothing. You act as if games attempt to mimic every game that has come before it. If that were the case, we'd never have any new games to play because they'd all be the same.

Magiocracy wrote:
Quote:
You've obviously never played at the launch of an MMO, so please stop talking as if you have experience with them.


And you obviously can't tell the difference between the standard launch bugs and glitches that all MMOs suffer from and the type of systemic design disaster that FFXIV is.

Oh no, FFXIV is missing an Auction House and has a broken chat system! That must mean it's inferior to other games!

I urge you to look through the patch logs of other games and tell me if you find anything familiar.


Perhaps you'd like to mention ANY other MMO that has been stupid enough to have a UI that is processed serverside ?

Perhaps you like to give us an example of any other MMO that has had so many basic features missing at launch - or more importantly, one that did not crash and burn shorlty after launch ?

And yes, the fact that it is 2010 DOES matter. There's this little thing called progress you see - as good new features get put into games, people then have a resonable expectation that those features will be incorporated into new games, especially if they're from the same developer.

I'm sorry if your standards are so low that you think that repeating the mistakes of the past is somehow acceptable, but it's frankly because of people like you that companies continue to believe that they can release sub-standard crap and that people will pay for it.



Edited, Oct 6th 2010 4:03pm by Magiocracy
#34 Oct 06 2010 at 2:03 PM Rating: Good
**
409 posts
KaneKitty wrote:
WillCider wrote:
does anyone just not feel that "Magic" they did when they started playing FFXI? ...I traveled all over the place and remembered how cool it was to see a new area for the first time. Everything about the world was just so magical and exciting.


Of course I don't: I'm not 14 years old anymore; it's not my first online game.

I'm also not naive enough to rest blame on "lack of magic" instead of "different/matured tastes." You, probably like most of us, had fun "just walkin' around the zones" at a time when FFXI was your first online game, or was played when you were just maturing (a time when people must latch on to something for guidance), or was perhaps your longest-running game by several years.

I'm sorry to say it, but you will never have fun simply wandering aimlessly through a zone again; the fact that you ever did was a result of something other than the "magic" that FFXIV "lacks."


What the **** are you talking about? I don't know who you think you're speaking for, but I still play FFXI and I still have fun just wandering through a zone. They put so much detail into every zone that it always amazes me, even when I've been there 1,000 times before.

Every time I go into the Horutoto Ruins I always love to sit on one of the mage tiles to make it light up. I still love going to they Boyhada tree and running through the waterfall with the Cloister of Storms hidden behind it. And every time I step foot into the Eldieme Necropolis I still feel that sense of "I'm somewhere no living thing should be". And who hasn't ran to the edge of Ru'Aun Gardens and looked over the side to see if they could spot the Mea telepoint? And the view of Jeuno as you approach it on an airship is awesome. I still take the time to read the conversations between npcs during missions, even when I've done them before. To say that XIV lacks depth and immersion (especially compared to XI) would be a HUGE understatement.

Now I realize that alot of those things were added in expansions. But I just used those zones as examples (because they're some of my favorites). But even in the starter zones there was way more depth than I've ever seen in XIV. In Windurst Walls I love staring up at the Great Star Tree and watching the birds circle around the upper branches. Or sitting in Queen Leaute's Garden in the Chateau. Even watching the drawbridge move up and down as the airships come in and out of Port Bastok. It's small things like that which breathe 'life' into Vanadiel and draw you into the world that Eorzea is sadly lacking in.

The UI lag, lack of a sort function, gear durability, skill point glitch in parties, lack of a search function of any kind for items, inability to add players to groups when they're not right next to you, inability to chat while crafting, fatigue system for experience points, and the ridiculously overly-complicated crafting system that requires materials that are 3x the level of the item you wish to make and about 5 different subcrafts are just things that compound the lack of depth and player immersion and make it seem even more soul-suckingly boring and repetitive.





Edited, Oct 6th 2010 4:08pm by SickleSageKiroh
____________________________
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A: None, it's working as intended.
#35 Oct 06 2010 at 2:12 PM Rating: Good
**
415 posts
Magiocracy wrote:
Perhaps you'd like to mention ANY other MMO that has been stupid enough to have a UI that is processed serverside ?

Perhaps you like to give us an example of any other MMO that has had so many basic features missing at launch - or more importantly, one that did not crash and burn shorlty after launch ?

And yes, the fact that it is 2010 DOES matter. There's this little thing called progress you see - as good new features get put into games, people then have a resonable expectation that those features will be incorporated into new games.

I'm sorry if your standards as so low that you think that repeating the mistakes of the past is somehow acceptable, but it's frankly because of people like you that companies continue to believe that they can release sub-standard crap and that people will pay for it.

I'm gonna go ahead and mention WoW because it's pretty much widely accepted to be the most successful MMO, and you people seem to think it shipped flawlessly.

1. No LFG until WotLK. That's two expansions. All you had was a LFG chat channel, and that wasn't added until after launch.
2. Only 1 action bar active at a time. Not changed until after launch.
3. No right clicking players to invite them to party or raid. Had to either be directly next to them or manually type /invite "Player".
4. Unusable mail system for the better part of the first couple of months.
5. No raid UI without the use of an addon. This is still the case and hasn't been fixed yet.
6. No skill timers. Had to download an addon.
7. Buff/debuff icons were about as abysmal as FFXIV's.
8. Auction House search function was limited to major item names. Items with suffixes like "of the Soldier" weren't directly searchable.
9. Quests weren't shown on the map until way later. Had to get an addon.
10. Number of mob kills for quests weren't displayed. Had to constantly look at quest log until way later or with the use of an addon.

I really could go on all day.

Edited, Oct 6th 2010 4:34pm by SoumaKyou
#36 Oct 06 2010 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
10 posts
1. No LFG until WotLK. That's two expansions. All you had was a LFG chat channel, and that wasn't added until after launch.

- WoW might not have had global LFG but at least it had global channels that could be used instead.

2. Only 1 action bar active at a time. Not changed until after launch.

- Hardly a missing feature.

3. No right clicking players to invite them to party or raid. Had to either be directly next to them or manually type /invite "Player".

- At least you *could* just type /invite "player" unlike a certain game I could mention...

4. Unusable mail system for the better part of the first couple of months.

- IDK, worked fine for me - perhaps you weren't using it right ?

5. No raid UI without the use of an addon. This is still the case and hasn't been fixed yet.

- True, but at least it allowed addons. FFXIV will never be able to because of it's serverside UI.

6. No skill timers. Had to download an addon.

- Ditto.

7. Buff/debuff icons were about as abysmal as FFXIV's.

- Yup, so FFXIV is as bad at this as a game that was released 5 years ago.

8. Auction House search function was limited to major item names. Items with suffixes like "of the Soldier" weren't directly searchable.

- At least is *had* an AH and a search function, unlike a certain game....

9. Quests weren't shown on the map until way later. Had to get an addon.

- Quests not shown on map ? Awwww......hardly a required feature

10. Number of mob kills for quests weren't displayed. Had to constantly look at quest log until way later or with the use of an addon.

- Again, hardly a required feature.

And regardless, you still haven't answered my question about naming another MMO that uses a serverside UI ? And you also don't seem to grasp that the MMO landscape has changed since 2005, people's expectations are higher now, and rightly so.
#37 Oct 06 2010 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
106 posts
SoumaKyou wrote:
Magiocracy wrote:
Perhaps you'd like to mention ANY other MMO that has been stupid enough to have a UI that is processed serverside ?

Perhaps you like to give us an example of any other MMO that has had so many basic features missing at launch - or more importantly, one that did not crash and burn shorlty after launch ?

And yes, the fact that it is 2010 DOES matter. There's this little thing called progress you see - as good new features get put into games, people then have a resonable expectation that those features will be incorporated into new games.

I'm sorry if your standards as so low that you think that repeating the mistakes of the past is somehow acceptable, but it's frankly because of people like you that companies continue to believe that they can release sub-standard crap and that people will pay for it.

I'm gonna go ahead and mention WoW because it's pretty much widely accepted to be the most successful MMO, and you people seem to think it shipped flawlessly.

1. No LFG until WotLK. That's two expansions. All you had was a LFG chat channel, and that wasn't added until after launch.
2. Only 1 action bar active at a time. Not changed until after launch.
3. No right clicking players to invite them to party or raid. Had to either be directly next to them or manually type /invite "Player".
4. Unusable mail system for the better part of the first couple of months.
5. No raid UI without the use of an addon. This is still the case and hasn't been fixed yet.
6. No skill timers. Had to download an addon.
7. Buff/debuff icons were about as abysmal as FFXIV's.
8. Auction House search function was limited to major item names. Items with suffixes like "of the Soldier" weren't directly searchable.
9. Quests weren't shown on the map until way later. Had to get an addon.
10. Number of mob kills for quests weren't displayed. Had to constantly look at quest log until way later or with the use of an addon.

I really could go on all day.

Edited, Oct 6th 2010 4:34pm by SoumaKyou


Most of the things you mentioned are luxuries not necessities. FFXIV is missing necessities
#38 Oct 06 2010 at 2:42 PM Rating: Excellent
**
415 posts
1. No LFG until WotLK. That's two expansions. All you had was a LFG chat channel, and that wasn't added until after launch.

- WoW might not have had global LFG but at least it had global channels that could be used instead.

-- FFXI already had a fully functional LFG system that was years apart from WoW's, and it came out earlier.

2. Only 1 action bar active at a time. Not changed until after launch.

- Hardly a missing feature.

-- It is if you were any good as a player. Most people already maxed out their keybinds after level 20. Most people at 60 had over 30 keybinds required to raid and PVP properly.

3. No right clicking players to invite them to party or raid. Had to either be directly next to them or manually type /invite "Player".

- At least you *could* just type /invite "player" unlike a certain game I could mention...

-- Ok.

4. Unusable mail system for the better part of the first couple of months.

- IDK, worked fine for me - perhaps you weren't using it right ?

-- No, it was a widespread bug. So many people lost so many items and gold. You should've read the forums when this was happening. Lots of rage.

5. No raid UI without the use of an addon. This is still the case and hasn't been fixed yet.

- True, but at least it allowed addons. FFXIV will never be able to because of it's serverside UI.

-- Addons aren't part of the original game. I'm not a fan of FFXIV's UI either but you can't use external sources to justify not having something that should already be in the game, hence "basic features".

6. No skill timers. Had to download an addon.

- Ditto.

-- Ditto.

7. Buff/debuff icons were about as abysmal as FFXIV's.

- Yup, so FFXIV is as bad at this as a game that was released 5 years ago.

-- Except quite a number of other games also have pretty abysmal buff/debuff icons, so FFXIV is not alone in this.

8. Auction House search function was limited to major item names. Items with suffixes like "of the Soldier" weren't directly searchable.

- At least is *had* an AH and a search function, unlike a certain game....

-- You act like FFXIV won't have an AH. SE did the same exact thing with XI. The AH was not added until a month after release.

9. Quests weren't shown on the map until way later. Had to get an addon.

- Quests not shown on map ? Awwww......hardly a required feature

-- Ok, imagine if XIV didn't tell you where mobs were for your leves. I guarantee you'd be ******** about that too.

10. Number of mob kills for quests weren't displayed. Had to constantly look at quest log until way later or with the use of an addon.

- Again, hardly a required feature.

-- See above.

As far as progress goes:

You're picking and choosing what you say are "basic features" and are trying to justify things by saying, "Oh, that's not a required feature," while bashing FFXIV and saying, "Oh, that's definitely a required feature!"

See where I'm taking this? You're trying to fabricate an argument in your favor when it's clear that XIV is perfectly in line with other game launch problems.

Edited, Oct 6th 2010 4:46pm by SoumaKyou
#39 Oct 06 2010 at 2:45 PM Rating: Decent
**
415 posts
WillCider wrote:
Most of the things you mentioned are luxuries not necessities. FFXIV is missing necessities

I'm beginning to think that you people who are complaining about things like "basic features" are just trying to weave through the argument by picking and choosing things you dislike as "luxuries" or "hardly required". By that logic, everything from tab targeting, to WASD movement are "luxuries" and "hardly required".
#40 Oct 06 2010 at 2:45 PM Rating: Good
*
65 posts
SoumaKyou wrote:
Magiocracy wrote:
Perhaps you'd like to mention ANY other MMO that has been stupid enough to have a UI that is processed serverside ?

Perhaps you like to give us an example of any other MMO that has had so many basic features missing at launch - or more importantly, one that did not crash and burn shorlty after launch ?

And yes, the fact that it is 2010 DOES matter. There's this little thing called progress you see - as good new features get put into games, people then have a resonable expectation that those features will be incorporated into new games.

I'm sorry if your standards as so low that you think that repeating the mistakes of the past is somehow acceptable, but it's frankly because of people like you that companies continue to believe that they can release sub-standard crap and that people will pay for it.

I'm gonna go ahead and mention WoW because it's pretty much widely accepted to be the most successful MMO, and you people seem to think it shipped flawlessly.

1. No LFG until WotLK. That's two expansions. All you had was a LFG chat channel, and that wasn't added until after launch.
2. Only 1 action bar active at a time. Not changed until after launch.
3. No right clicking players to invite them to party or raid. Had to either be directly next to them or manually type /invite "Player".
4. Unusable mail system for the better part of the first couple of months.
5. No raid UI without the use of an addon. This is still the case and hasn't been fixed yet.
6. No skill timers. Had to download an addon.
7. Buff/debuff icons were about as abysmal as FFXIV's.
8. Auction House search function was limited to major item names. Items with suffixes like "of the Soldier" weren't directly searchable.
9. Quests weren't shown on the map until way later. Had to get an addon.
10. Number of mob kills for quests weren't displayed. Had to constantly look at quest log until way later or with the use of an addon.

I really could go on all day.

Edited, Oct 6th 2010 4:34pm by SoumaKyou

Your whole post fails because WoW quickly addresed all of these problems. Blizzard constantly communicates the direction of the game, and release the details on fixes/updates weeks before doing them. What has SE said about FFXIV?? They have released that Market wards will get some search function and that a "KNOWN ISSUE" of +1 items is ******** up macro's. Their ignorance alone in not addressing the real "KNOWN ISSUES" is what drives me crazy. Keep allowing yourself to have such low standards for the games in which you play.
#41 Oct 06 2010 at 2:48 PM Rating: Decent
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415 posts
Xclusive215 wrote:

Your whole post fails because WoW quickly addresed all of these problems. Blizzard constantly communicates the direction of the game, and release the details on fixes/updates weeks before doing them. What has SE said about FFXIV?? They have released that Market wards will get some search function and that a "KNOWN ISSUE" of +1 items is ******** up macro's. Their ignorance alone in not addressing the real "KNOWN ISSUES" is what drives me crazy. Keep allowing yourself to have such low standards for the games in which you play.

Quickly? Are you sure you played the same game? Most of those features weren't added until several MAJOR patches after launch. I'm talking months, even years, at a time. Quite a number of features weren't added until the expansion. You want me to list those too? Your argument really holds no ground outside of "I disagree with you so you must be wrong."

****, I was a beta tester on WoW and they locked threads where people complained about broken game mechanics. They launched a game where some specs weren't even playable, while some were ridiculously overpowered. Rogues were 1-shotting clothies naked with level 1 daggers up until patch 1.7 (over a year after launch). You ever watch World of Roguecraft?

Anyway, I'm off work. You have succeeded in entertaining me with your rabble.

Edited, Oct 6th 2010 5:00pm by SoumaKyou
#42 Oct 06 2010 at 2:58 PM Rating: Decent
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241 posts
Wow, didn't take long for this thread to derail into a Warcraft hating mob.

I don't agree with not experiencing "the magic" past your first MMO, I also experienced it when I started playing WoW, but the longer I played, the more I grew to dislike it, it was a shallow experience.

So I went back to FFXI.
____________________________
There once was a tiger striped cat. This cat died a million deaths and was reborn a million times and was owned by various people who he didn't care for. The cat wasn't afraid to die... One day, the cat was a free cat, a stray cat. He met a white female cat, and the two cats spent their days happily together. Years passed, and the white cat died of old age. The tiger striped cat cried a million times, and then died. It never
came back to life.
#43 Oct 06 2010 at 2:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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FeanaroOnPhoenix wrote:

I don't even know why I log on anymore, I guess it's hope... hope that there's going to be something that makes me feel like an adventurer again.


^ This.
Yes, FFXI was my first mmo and you don't forget your first love and all that. But...your second love should be better, right? That magic moment when you think, nobody and nothing else mattered because it was all practice for this.

Ain't happening so far for me. /sad
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#44 Oct 06 2010 at 3:07 PM Rating: Decent
9 posts
Does anyone feel like the current Quest system within FFXIV is basically a rehash of FFXI's Fields of Valor / Campaign Ops?

I didn't mind doing those in XI, since you can do 'em if you were bored or have down time but I don't want that to be the main and only quest system in FFXIV. I'd love to have something like Assault, Campaign and Besieged but more robust since those are more interesting and it was fun to team up for those.
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FFXIV //Holy Cannoli on Rabanastre
FFXI //Scrawnysquall 72PLD on Valefor
Warhammer Online //Snakeeyez 40L/55RR DoK on Iron Rock
LOTRO //Chrissiurso 43 Minstrel on Arkenstone
STO // Miriya Jenius Lt. Commander
#45 Oct 06 2010 at 3:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think we can say it is because XI already had an expansion when we got it. I didn't get out of "Sandy zones" (East and West Ronfaure, Ghelsba, LaTehine) for weeks after starting, but it was still magical. Bastok and Windurst really felt like foreign places. It was quite a while before I finally took the trek to Bastok and the long boat ride to Windurst. Both of these places I've heard about for a long time. I met people "from" there, but to me they were still mysterious and unknown, sort of like Paris or Australia. When I finally reached these places I really felt like I had adventured far from home. I was in another nation, and started gaining a pride of my own nation. San d'Oria actually felt like home when I finally arrived back.

In XIV, I don't get any feelings like this. The zones outside each town are literally touching each other. It would be like exiting Ronfaure and entering Sarutabaruta. It just doesn't feel right.
#46 Oct 06 2010 at 3:35 PM Rating: Good
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To rephrase KaneKitty, I think that "Magic" is after the fact.

I think Will is looking for that spark.

And that spark is often times kindled by adolescence, or the ability to put time in.

When you're able to invest time into something, I think it naturally makes a deeper connection between you and that thing.

But, if something really resonates with you, it may not matter the time spent.

Hence there are things that grow on you and things that you immediately like.

It would be interesting to see the amount of time spent played vs. their like/dislike of the game.
#47 Oct 06 2010 at 4:03 PM Rating: Default
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I really hope they add jump to the game. It's gets very annoying not being able to jump down a ledge and instead having to run all the way around.
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#48 Oct 06 2010 at 4:13 PM Rating: Decent
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#49 Oct 06 2010 at 4:33 PM Rating: Good
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Xclusive215 wrote:
Why do people compare, or even want to compare a game that was released in 2010, with a game that was released in 2002 for PS2 in Japan.???? ESPECIALLY when they were developed and released by the same company. Don't you expect more from Car companies each year?? How about Graphics cards for your PC's??? don't the standard raise with every new model???


Mostly, I don't. However people keep bringing up how smooth their experience with XI was on release, since day one... I'm pretty sure most of them weren't playing XI day 1. I would have left it at that, but you put the car bit in...

Doe cars, you made this too easy... Go on almost any enthusiast forum (I'm only familiar with US muscle car forums, but from brief glances at import forums it's similar) and you will see people comparing their new car to one that is 20 years old. "how does the 2010 XXXXX compare to the (whatever the golden year for that model was)". Obviously it's important in that situation as well as others.

I'm not saying XIV should look like and act like XI. I'm saying we should be able to see how XIV will evolve to a degree by looking at how long it took SE to make modifications to XI based on (or in spite of) player feedback. Hopefully at a slightly accelerated pace.

Back to cars, it used to be that customer complaints were addressed in completely new models, with only the minor tweaks in the year to year refreshes. These days cars can see a near complete refresh every few years and sometimes every other year depending on the tech requested/required.
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EVE Online:ScraperX; Retired
WAR:IronClaw- Peryn SW;SkullThrone- Grymloc BO; Retired


#50 Oct 06 2010 at 5:15 PM Rating: Good
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SoumaKyou wrote:
Magiocracy wrote:
Perhaps you'd like to mention ANY other MMO that has been stupid enough to have a UI that is processed serverside ?

Perhaps you like to give us an example of any other MMO that has had so many basic features missing at launch - or more importantly, one that did not crash and burn shorlty after launch ?

And yes, the fact that it is 2010 DOES matter. There's this little thing called progress you see - as good new features get put into games, people then have a resonable expectation that those features will be incorporated into new games.

I'm sorry if your standards as so low that you think that repeating the mistakes of the past is somehow acceptable, but it's frankly because of people like you that companies continue to believe that they can release sub-standard crap and that people will pay for it.

I'm gonna go ahead and mention WoW because it's pretty much widely accepted to be the most successful MMO, and you people seem to think it shipped flawlessly.

1. No LFG until WotLK. That's two expansions. All you had was a LFG chat channel, and that wasn't added until after launch.
2. Only 1 action bar active at a time. Not changed until after launch.
3. No right clicking players to invite them to party or raid. Had to either be directly next to them or manually type /invite "Player".
4. Unusable mail system for the better part of the first couple of months.
5. No raid UI without the use of an addon. This is still the case and hasn't been fixed yet.
6. No skill timers. Had to download an addon.
7. Buff/debuff icons were about as abysmal as FFXIV's.
8. Auction House search function was limited to major item names. Items with suffixes like "of the Soldier" weren't directly searchable.
9. Quests weren't shown on the map until way later. Had to get an addon.
10. Number of mob kills for quests weren't displayed. Had to constantly look at quest log until way later or with the use of an addon.

I really could go on all day.

Edited, Oct 6th 2010 4:34pm by SoumaKyou


Okay, even if these features are necessary as you seem to tout later in your post 'defending' yourself from everyone else in the post, then answer me this? Why the **** aren't most of them and MORE included in FFXIV? Whether they are features or 'fluff' is irrelevant if they are deemed necessary for an enjoyable (translated lack of tedium/frustration) experience, therefore I regard your post as blind faith to a product that has problems that you are to 'devout' of a fan to simply not see them or downright choose to overlook them. Whether you invented the wheel or the next person is irrelevant when compared to its usefulness.
#51 Oct 06 2010 at 5:22 PM Rating: Default
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I just want to know who the **** thought it would be fun to spend 3+ hours spamming for repairs. This is getting lame.
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