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FFXIV just doesn't have that "Magic"Follow

#52 Oct 06 2010 at 5:26 PM Rating: Decent
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415 posts
DragonBourne wrote:

Okay, even if these features are necessary as you seem to tout later in your post 'defending' yourself from everyone else in the post, then answer me this? Why the **** aren't most of them and MORE included in FFXIV? Whether they are features or 'fluff' is irrelevant if they are deemed necessary for an enjoyable (translated lack of tedium/frustration) experience, therefore I regard your post as blind faith to a product that has problems that you are to 'devout' of a fan to simply not see them or downright choose to overlook them. Whether you invented the wheel or the next person is irrelevant when compared to its usefulness.

The problem here is that everyone who's against FFXIV is trying to justify their own versions of what is "necessary" in a game. The things I listed are things that I know people would ***** about not having, and the point of that list was to show that even the almighty WoW was missing quite a few features that people seem to think games should already come with. If we're going to be technical about what is necessary and what is not, one could argue that mouse clicking for movement works and there is no need for the "luxury" of using WASD. Other games worked just fine with mouse clicks, right?

I have not once said FFXIV doesn't have its flaws. **** yeah it does. What I'm arguing is the fact that every single MMO out there that has been released has lacked "basic features" in one way or another that wasn't implemented until later down the line. What everyone else seems to think is that FFXIV is the only new MMO that's done that, when it couldn't be further from the truth. There's no fanboyism here. The problem is that you guys are so blinded by your nerd rage that you don't stop to think that even though FFXIV is missing a few key features, it sure as **** isn't the only MMO that's done so at launch.

Point is, you can't pick and choose what you think is "necessary" just to try and prove your point. Arguments don't work like that. Either look at every side and base your argument on that, or don't try to argue at all. Shifting information around to try and help your case really doesn't prove anything, especially when information to the contrary is right in front of your face.
#53 Oct 06 2010 at 5:28 PM Rating: Decent
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415 posts
DragonBourne wrote:

Okay, even if these features are necessary as you seem to tout later in your post 'defending' yourself from everyone else in the post, then answer me this? Why the **** aren't most of them and MORE included in FFXIV? Whether they are features or 'fluff' is irrelevant if they are deemed necessary for an enjoyable (translated lack of tedium/frustration) experience, therefore I regard your post as blind faith to a product that has problems that you are to 'devout' of a fan to simply not see them or downright choose to overlook them. Whether you invented the wheel or the next person is irrelevant when compared to its usefulness.

The problem here is that everyone who's against FFXIV is trying to justify their own versions of what is "necessary" in a game. The things I listed are things that I know people would ***** about not having, and the point of that list was to show that even the almighty WoW was missing quite a few features that people seem to think games should already come with. If we're going to be technical about what is necessary and what is not, one could argue that mouse clicking for movement works and there is no need for the "luxury" of using WASD. Other games worked just fine with mouse clicks, right?

I have not once said FFXIV doesn't have its flaws. **** yeah it does. What I'm arguing is the fact that every single MMO out there that has been released has lacked "basic features" in one way or another that wasn't implemented until later down the line. What everyone else seems to think is that FFXIV is the only new MMO that's done that, when it couldn't be further from the truth. There's no fanboyism here. The problem is that you guys are so blinded by your nerd rage that you don't stop to think that even though FFXIV is missing a few key features, it sure as **** isn't the only MMO that's done so at launch, even if other MMO's before it already had those features to begin with.

Point is, you can't pick and choose what you think is "necessary" just to try and prove your point. Arguments don't work like that. Either look at every side and base your argument on that, or don't try to argue at all. Shifting information around to try and help your case really doesn't prove anything, especially when information to the contrary is right in front of your face.
#54 Oct 06 2010 at 5:35 PM Rating: Good
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9,526 posts
Vawn43 wrote:


In XIV, I don't get any feelings like this. The zones outside each town are literally touching each other. It would be like exiting Ronfaure and entering Sarutabaruta. It just doesn't feel right.


yeah I think the change from DESERT to LUSH BOUNTIFUL FOREST is a little crazy. That was definately poorly done. The zone change between Thanalan and the Black Shroud is terrible...
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#55 Oct 06 2010 at 5:55 PM Rating: Good
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491 posts
SoumaKyou wrote:


Point is, you can't pick and choose what you think is "necessary" just to try and prove your point.


I can't? So then, I should just go ahead and buy the game and if I don't like the 'features' (or lack thereof), consider it a donation?
#56 Oct 06 2010 at 7:01 PM Rating: Good
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1,021 posts
In terms of what is a "required feature", I would consider anything needed to support your major game play elements to be a required feature. What follows are some of the major game play elements to FFXIV and some comments on what they have/need. I've marked it with a "o" if FFXIV has it, a "-" if it is currently missing or imo insufficient, and a "~" if it is marginal. I've used an "=" for attributes of major game play elements that were chosen by the developers that flesh out the game play.

Solo combat play:
~ can find stuff to kill 
  o can find attackable mobs 
  - can kill mobs (seems to break down due to gear requirements) 
= can progress via rank and skill points 
  o rank up and skill points both work 
= can progress via gear upgrades 
  o there exists gear upgrades 
  - gear upgrades are reasonably obtainable 
    - too hard to find items with current market ward system 
      (work in progress) 
= gear degrades 
  o gear can be repaired 
  - gear repairs are too expensive/difficult on better gear 


Group combat play:
~ can find a group 
  o can use linkshell, /shout at camps to try to find people 
  - no functional search 
  ~ can invite people to group 
    (unnecessarily difficult, but certainly possible) 
= everything from solo combat play still applies 
= can progress via rank and skill points 
  - skill point distribution is broken in groups 


crafting play:
o items exist that people want 
o items can be created 
~ materials for items are available 
  o materials exist and can be obtained 
  - materials can't be found reasonably with MW system 
    (work in progress) 
~ items can be sold 
  o possible to sell items 
  - too difficult for buyers to find with MW system 
    (work in progress) 


gathering play:
o items can be gathered that people want 
~ items can be sold 
  o possible to sell items 
  - too difficult for buyers to find with MW system 
    (work in progress) 


storyline quests:
o works fine 
= very limited number of quests with storyline available 
  (no, I don't count kill N rats because they are 
   eating the food as making it have story) 


Most of the major problems in my mind come from the lack of a functioning buy/sell system. As you can see, MW system problems are the root cause of most of the "-" I gave for missing required features (as measured by blocking major game play elements). If the MW system was improved/replaced, the skill point distribution in parties was fixed, and they slightly improved looking for party members; at least most of the major game play elements would be functional.

Back to the original topic, I think a lot of the "magic" depends on whether you find the game play elements fun or not. What makes something fun is highly subjective and person dependent. Some might care about game play, others might care about graphic details, still others might care about immersion, and so on. If they haven't put a lot of effort into what you care about, it just won't work for you. The more things they put effort into, the more people it works for.
#57 Oct 06 2010 at 7:13 PM Rating: Default
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415 posts
DragonBourne wrote:
SoumaKyou wrote:


Point is, you can't pick and choose what you think is "necessary" just to try and prove your point.


I can't? So then, I should just go ahead and buy the game and if I don't like the 'features' (or lack thereof), consider it a donation?

Sure, as long as you take the same approach with every MMORPG you play. I guarantee if you went by your standards, every MMO is a donation. Of course you're not going to agree because you have your own idea in your head as to what YOU, yourself, like in terms of features. Now we come to another paradox, because quite frankly, what you personally like and deem worthy of yourself means... wait for it... absolutely nothing to someone else who has a different point of view. Shocking concept, isn't it?

Then again, you and others in this thread somehow feel you have a bigger entitlement than the others who actually like the game, so I think I've just discovered your problem. Here's an idea: you're not more entitled than everyone else. Oh, how disappointing that must be!

Edited, Oct 6th 2010 9:16pm by SoumaKyou
#58 Oct 07 2010 at 5:46 PM Rating: Good
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491 posts
SoumaKyou wrote:
DragonBourne wrote:
SoumaKyou wrote:


Point is, you can't pick and choose what you think is "necessary" just to try and prove your point.


I can't? So then, I should just go ahead and buy the game and if I don't like the 'features' (or lack thereof), consider it a donation?

Sure, as long as you take the same approach with every MMORPG you play. I guarantee if you went by your standards, every MMO is a donation. Of course you're not going to agree because you have your own idea in your head as to what YOU, yourself, like in terms of features. Now we come to another paradox, because quite frankly, what you personally like and deem worthy of yourself means... wait for it... absolutely nothing to someone else who has a different point of view. Shocking concept, isn't it?

Then again, you and others in this thread somehow feel you have a bigger entitlement than the others who actually like the game, so I think I've just discovered your problem. Here's an idea: you're not more entitled than everyone else. Oh, how disappointing that must be!

Edited, Oct 6th 2010 9:16pm by SoumaKyou


Yes, very disconcerting, indeed. Oh, how have I lived this long and not seen the error of my ways.

But on a more serious note, if you REALLY must know why people share their point of view about a game (as long as it is done constructively, of course and not a whinefest- Ahh, who am I trying to kid, fanboys will ALWAYS see it as a whinefest) is because maybe they are concerned about the lowered standards that people will not only find acceptable, but some will actually be cheerful about. This affects ALL games in general, but more importantly, FUTURE games. None moreso than an MMO. If companies can get away with releasing less and charging more, they most certainly will, as 'downloadable content' has surely shown us. I mean come on, almost every game released today has some form of purchasable content available THE VERY DAY it is released. What happened to releasing the whole game? Sadly, they found out people will actually pay more for a feature that could (and should) have been included in the game. This, my friend, is why i scream out to thee...
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