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#1 Oct 06 2010 at 1:00 PM Rating: Default
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Auction houses, or the lack thereof, have become an issue of increasing concern in Final Fantasy XIV.  Where I do agree that some base changes could be made, I would say that as a whole the system is fantastic.  There have been many complaints on this system and how "Inconvenient" it is. All I can say is that you are too impatient.  In the time since release I have managed to level one disciple of War, two disciples of the hand (one to level 19), and all three disciples of the land.  I have also just recent passed the 1 million gil mark.  How have I done this and still kept my gear and weapons up to date?  By making friends with other crafters and by utilizing the market ward system.  
 
Every day before I start adventuring or crafting, I browse the market retainers.  This works two fold.  I get a general idea of what other crafters are selling items for, which allows me to keep the lowest prices; and I also get find good deals on items as I search the various retainers.  Any specific items I need that I can’t find, I contact the various crafters that I’ve befriended.  I do think a system to better organize the retainers would be a plus, but the system itself is not that tedious.  Every market wards has lines on the floor in some form.  By simply breaking up the wards by using these lines, you can subdivide a large task into a several smaller ones, ensuring you hit every retainer in a timely fashion.  
 
You are probably thinking, "This guy must just sit at home and play all day".  You couldn't be further from the truth.  I work full time 40+ hours a week, am married, and attend college courses part time during the week.  I play at night after work or after class, and on the weekends when I can.  The gaming community has become so coddled by games such as WoW and their ilk that they have simply forgotten what it means to actually have to work for something.  I bet 90% of you complainers are too young to remember sitting for hours on end in Everquest trying to buy or sell goods.  Even after EQ was out for 4 years and they added the bazaar system, it was just like XIV is now.  You had to put forth the leg work to find what you wanted.  
 
What I'm trying to say here is this; stop complaining that SE isn't handing you everything on a silver platter.  Take some time to slow down and enjoy the game.  I personally relish logging on and searching the markets. It bestows a sense of accomplishment when you find that one great deal.  What happens if you add an auction house?  Everyone starts undercutting everyone else by a gil, or posting some ridiculously low price to sell quick, and unless you are lucky enough to post your item for sale before the next person you lose out.  You've never made a purchase in real life, only to find out you could have gotten it cheaper across town?  I say keep the sense of realism.  It adds a great quality to this game that is nary to be found elsewhere.
#2 Oct 06 2010 at 1:15 PM Rating: Good
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People used to **** and **** in pots and toss it out into the streets, that doesn't make it a good idea.
#3 Oct 06 2010 at 1:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Banudin wrote:
There have been many complaints on this system and how "Inconvenient" it is. All I can say is that you are too impatient.


Seriously, all these lazy people just need to set aside an extra hour or two to sift, by degrees, through a huge pile of bazaars. Who care if it's "inconvienent" or "borderline broken, time-consuming, convuluded, and downright unenjoyable," these lazy assheads need to deal with it!

Who cares if the survey on Zam shows that 67% of people are dissatisfied with the retainer system? Who cares if over 90% of people would at least "appreciate" an auction house? I say f*ck 'em, let them go play eBay if they think that an easy way to buy and sell goods is beneficial to an interdependent crafting-based economy!

Can you believe that some of them even think that they should be able to ride chocobos (as pointed out in another thread)?! I don't know why so many people fail to understand the wise notion of "if it's broke, don't fix it," as you and I so obviously do.
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#4 Oct 06 2010 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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Banudin wrote:
 
What I'm trying to say here is this; stop complaining that SE isn't handing you everything on a silver platter.  Take some time to slow down and enjoy the game.  I personally relish logging on and searching the markets. It bestows a sense of accomplishment when you find that one great deal.



You relish it? That I cannot understand. AND HOW DO YOU KNOW IT IS A GREAT DEAL AND SOMEONE ELSE DOESN'T HAVE A BETTER PRICE THAN WHAT YOU JUST PAID without looking through a million and one bazzars??? Are you numb?


Edited, Oct 6th 2010 3:24pm by lurex
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#5 Oct 06 2010 at 1:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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OP, you mention that you check retainers so that you can maintain low prices, and then blame the AH for allowing undercutting, which I find a bit hypocritical.


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#6 Oct 06 2010 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
40 posts
I wouldn't mind the current system if I could see what people are selling without having to browse them. I also work 40+ hours a week, and I would rather spend what time I DO have actually PLAYING THE GAME than clicking on every possible bazaar to see if someone is selling something I want/need.

Doesn't matter anyway. All we have to do is wait for the free month to be over, and Squenix's wallets to start getting skinny, and they'll add an AH. Bookmark this post, tag it, whatever, it's gonna happen.
#7 Oct 06 2010 at 1:34 PM Rating: Decent
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KujaKoF wrote:
OP, you mention that you check retainers so that you can maintain low prices, and then blame the AH for allowing undercutting, which I find a bit hypocritical.




Ah, but having he lowest price does not ensure that I will sell anything. It offers ms the attempt to establish a reputation as a low priced vendor. This is something that can rarely be accomplished in an AH type setting.

Keep the flames coming, I welcome them. If you organize how you search, the markets do not become that tedious. You can work through them pretty quick. Also, I only go through a market ward or two a day. Yes there are changes, however most of the retainers I check on Monday are still going to be ther on Tuesday with close to the same items. What I am after is an average selling price on items, which I can get from a small one or two ward daily sample. Nice use of sarcasm by the way kanekitty.

As far as knowing I got a great deal, I don't. You are absolutely right that there could be a better price. However just because it isn't the best deal, doesn't mean it isn't great. Since I watch the markets I have a very good idea what things sell for, and therefore can determine an items general worth.

Edited, Oct 6th 2010 3:40pm by Banudin
#8 Oct 06 2010 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
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Well written and I agree, in the main.

I am not a twitch-reflex player and I don't mind shopping to find a deal. I also work my 40+ hour week with all the obligations that and a real life entail. I could stand for things to load faster and transfer faster but overall I'm good with the way this game functions, including the markets and retainers. I find it really attractive that crafting actually has a place, that later game will rely heavily on the support classes and that making connections with those who can do what you can't pays out immediately - and that includes the fighter classes.

Not keen on the froth reactions of most of the rest of this board, I gotta admit. Games are for doing what you want to do, which is waste a few hours (or a few more hours) dodging real life responsibility. That's why I play, anyways, although I suppose there's somebody out there who lives and breathes video games as an irreversible part of their psychological makeup and takes the logic systems behind the rulesets as a deeply personal attack. The challenge of any video games is to find the shiny object that appeals most and work within the mechanics of the system to "win" it. This system is complex enough to keep me entertained while I chase "winning" - and meanwhile I can happily ignore the dishes.
#9 Oct 06 2010 at 1:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Banudin wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
OP, you mention that you check retainers so that you can maintain low prices, and then blame the AH for allowing undercutting, which I find a bit hypocritical.




Ah, but having he lowest price does not ensure that I will sell anything. It offers ms the attempt to establish a reputation as a low priced vendor. This is something that can rarely be accomplished in an AH type setting.

Keel the flames coming, I welcome them. If you organize how you search the markets do not become that tedious. You can work through them pretty quick. Also, I only go through a market ward or two a day. Yes there are changes, however most of the retainers I check on Monday are still going to be ther on Tuesday with close to the same items. What I am after is an average selling price on items, which I can get from a small one or two ward daily sample. Nice use of sarcasm by the way.


Until now, you have yet to actually be flamed. People disagreeing with you is not flaming. I have no idea what I've said that could possibly be interpreted at sarcasm, but back to your point. You are trying to sell lower than your competition, to gain a reputation as a low priced seller, in order to sell your goods faster. You know what also lets you do that? an AH. Sell your goods lower than your competition, and you will sell faster than your competition.


I can understand that some people like this system as you do. Some people like shopping for bargains. Some people prefer selling items through their bazaars and having a store-like feeling. I don't. I want to keep my in town transactions to a minimum so I can get back to the parts of the game that I enjoy.
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#10 Oct 06 2010 at 1:53 PM Rating: Default
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He was referring to KaneKitty's post with the sarcasm remark.

I just don't see how an auction house would make the game any less complex. The crafting system would still be there, the leve system would still be there, every actual gameplay aspect of the game will still remain intact. Complexity should come in actually playing the game and utilizing its mechanics. Complexity should not be the same as impracticality. The market ward generally isn't a bad idea, but there needs to be some type of organization, some way to be able to find what you are actually looking for. Would being able to actually find what you're looking for really make the game too easy? If that's the case, don't you think that's kind of messed up?

I don't even care if there's an AH, as long as I can buy or sell the items I want in an efficient fashion. Yes, I understand that games made over twelve years ago didn't have auction houses. They were eclipsed by games that utilized more practical and efficient gameplay mechanics.
#11 Oct 06 2010 at 1:55 PM Rating: Default
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If they dont implement some sort of search function I think implementing what they have in Aion would be genius. Make it so your retainer shows a bubble of text where you can type whatever you want and people can see it simply by walking close to your retainer, or simply targetting it.

If I walked into a ward and everyone was advertising what they are carrying it would be much much better. Like if I'm looking for armor i could look for the retainer that is advertising: "Cheapest Armor in Gridania! Have a look!" Heck you could even go as far as allowing players to link items into their advertisement. But the point is, you would know what people are carrying before even clicking them. This would save a ton of time.

Unfortunately like was pointed out in another thread, SE seemed to have designed FFXIV to be an unlimited time sink. Everything you do is a ridiculous time sink and retainers is no exception. Lets make everything take 10 x longer than it should! This will give us time to make some actual game content before people jump ship!

But hey, if you're content with something as simple as this being a daily time sink for hours then by all means, knock yourself out. I wont put up with it anymore knowing there's games out there designed to be fun your entire playtime. Where shopping isnt a chore. It seems 90% of the activities in FFXIV are designed to be a chore.
#12 Oct 06 2010 at 2:00 PM Rating: Default
14 posts
This guys a plant.
#13 Oct 06 2010 at 2:00 PM Rating: Good
12 posts
I'll give you the flame bit. As mentioned I DO think he system as it sits needs to be refined, but I hardly think an auction house is the way to do that. I know that many people have the same mindset you do. They don't want to spend time searching for goods. You have to consider that it was made this way to be immersive. It's a break from the grind and adds a whole new facet to the gaming experience. I believe the ward division system will allow for both factions to remain happy. I do fully understand your viewpoint, but I think by that thought process you are secluding yourself from a wonderful feature.
#14 Oct 06 2010 at 2:04 PM Rating: Good
40 posts
Soezu wrote:
If they dont implement some sort of search function I think implementing what they have in Aion would be genius. Make it so your retainer shows a bubble of text where you can type whatever you want and people can see it simply by walking close to your retainer, or simply targetting it.

If I walked into a ward and everyone was advertising what they are carrying it would be much much better. Like if I'm looking for armor i could look for the retainer that is advertising: "Cheapest Armor in Gridania! Have a look!" Heck you could even go as far as allowing players to link items into their advertisement. But the point is, you would know what people are carrying before even clicking them. This would save a ton of time.


This. This times a thousand. The game can still use the bazaar system for trade and be practical, and this is the way. Ragnarok Online did the same thing, you could set up a bazaar and a little bubble above your head that says "Selling Potions" or whatever. Right now, the only retainers I bother to click on in the market wards are the ones with descriptive names like "Shardsforsale" or something like that. If I'm looking for shards, who am I gonna click on? Generic anime name #857, or Shardsforsale? I just saved myself some time right there. Generic anime name #857 could have been selling shards cheaper, I do not care. I just want to buy my stuff and get back to playing the game.
#15 Oct 06 2010 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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Soezu wrote:
If they dont implement some sort of search function I think implementing what they have in Aion would be genius. Make it so your retainer shows a bubble of text where you can type whatever you want and people can see it simply by walking close to your retainer, or simply targetting it.

If I walked into a ward and everyone was advertising what they are carrying it would be much much better. Like if I'm looking for armor i could look for the retainer that is advertising: "Cheapest Armor in Gridania! Have a look!" Heck you could even go as far as allowing players to link items into their advertisement. But the point is, you would know what people are carrying before even clicking them. This would save a ton of time.



I think a system like they had in Aion would actually work IF they organizes the physical placement of retainers. If not it would just be a jumble of text. Still it's a noteworthy idea
#16 Oct 06 2010 at 2:20 PM Rating: Excellent
40 posts
Banudin wrote:

I think a system like they had in Aion would actually work IF they organizes the physical placement of retainers. If not it would just be a jumble of text. Still it's a noteworthy idea


I'm not sure how placing a retainer works since I haven't tried it yet, but you can choose where it is placed, right?

If that's the case, people would intentionally spread themselves out just so people could read their descriptions. That is, assuming they actually want people to read their descriptions and buy from them.
#17 Oct 06 2010 at 2:29 PM Rating: Decent
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108 posts
Congrats on passing the 1 milgil mark.

I'm closing in on it... :)
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#18 Oct 06 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Decent
12 posts
sqwertyuiop wrote:
Banudin wrote:

I think a system like they had in Aion would actually work IF they organizes the physical placement of retainers. If not it would just be a jumble of text. Still it's a noteworthy idea


I'm not sure how placing a retainer works since I haven't tried it yet, but you can choose where it is placed, right?

If that's the case, people would intentionally spread themselves out just so people could read their descriptions. That is, assuming they actually want people to read their descriptions and buy from them.


You would think that people would do that now, instead of piling up at the front of the ward so it's hard to click on their names. But, they don't.
#19 Oct 06 2010 at 3:43 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
You would think that people would do that now, instead of piling up at the front of the ward so it's hard to click on their names. But, they don't.


Have you ever looked at the front of the phone book and seen "AAAAAAA Taxi, AAAA Taxi, AA Taxi" etc? Same thing.

I've seen 3-4 threads today all saying "AH bad, retainer good." Either all the retainer fanciers have come out of the woodwork and decided to declare their love on the same day or someone is up to something.
#20 Oct 06 2010 at 3:47 PM Rating: Good
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It's too bad that none of the people in support of retainers can really come up with a GOOD reason except, "Hur, to the dur, it's more challenging."

Forcing someone to go through a bunch of tedious menus for an indefinite amount of time is NOT challenge. If that is what a game has to do to provide a "challenge", they really need to reconsider what makes up their game.
#21 Oct 06 2010 at 4:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Anyone who supports this Market Ward idea and not an Auction House is an idiot. The end.
#22 Oct 06 2010 at 4:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm glad for you that searching the retainers as they are is a fulfilling gameplay experience. The ideal MMORPG offers a little something for everyone. I, however, will be very happy when I can search the wards to find what I want and then get back to the part of the game I actually enjoy.

And when they do add the search, it won't (I imagine) prevent anyone who enjoys one-by-one retainer browsing from continuing to do so, while still allowing the rest of us to play with improved enjoyment as well.

A little something for everyone.

Edited, Oct 6th 2010 6:04pm by Monadnock
#23Olorinus the Vile, Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 4:04 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) People who say those of us who like the idea behind the market wards (even if they still need a lot of work) haven't said why are being willfully ignorant. The OP gave his reasons - and if you don't like them it doesn't make them invalid - they are still reasons.
#24 Oct 06 2010 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
12 posts
put up an AH and atleast 1/2 of the problems will be solve. It's an MMO, it's best to simplify as much as possible
#25 Oct 06 2010 at 4:09 PM Rating: Decent
40 posts
Olorinus the Vile wrote:

SE wants crafting to be a viable main job. Period. That can't be achieved with a "race-to-the-bottom" economy. Creating a name for yourself and building relationships as a crafter is important under the current system. The AH system takes all the sociality out of crafting.



This is an actual good reason. I don't particularly want an AH, but I would love it if the retainers were more practical. Specifically, signs that let you know what they're selling. That would solve SO many problems. I don't care if there's no search feature, or whatever, just if I could see what people are bazaaring without browsing them. It would make finding a particular item much, much faster, with little change in the current system.
#26Olorinus the Vile, Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 4:14 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I agree with this 100% - I wish they at least had the "comment" thing from FFXI - so if someone targeted you - above the place where the options are "browse" etc it would have your little comment "Check out the cheap shields in my bazaar!" or something.
#27 Oct 06 2010 at 4:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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current system won't work for long since majority of the people are losing patience in looking for what they need (at least i am). and quite often you find yourself wasting time looking through people's bazaar that's selling a maple wand for 1 million gil. I think SE needs to think of a better economic system because the current one won't do justice. and to also separate this game from FFXI, i would also stay away from AH since i feel like some people do take advantage of it. In addition, i think SE purposely not put an AH because crafting is a main job, and to keep this game fair they had to let people have equal opportunity in buying items. so for example if i see this guy selling a maple wand for 5000 i would probably consider buying it. however, in an AH where everyone is crafting maple wands, the price value of that would probably be 500. result of that is probably a lost of money from crafting. certainly not giving opportunity for crafting to grow, since money is hard to earn @@. so SE probably need to use rocket science to come up with a economic masterpiece plan ! x) i personally think it'll help a lot if NPC vendors sell a lot more basic ingredients. above are all just opinions, disagree all you want.
#28Olorinus the Vile, Posted: Oct 06 2010 at 4:36 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) This is exactly my point. Because you as a buyer know you may not have the same opportunity to buy that item - if you want it/need it you are probably willing to pay more for it.
#29 Oct 06 2010 at 5:22 PM Rating: Default
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Get over it. Take an economics class if you're so interested in the subject, this is a video game. In the end an Auction House will reduce a lot of frustration and time wasting. The game needs one, no way around it.
#30 Oct 07 2010 at 6:33 AM Rating: Default
I view the market systems that is implemented as an extension of the game. The amount of time you put into it directly correlates to what you get out of it. If you go grind mobs for an hour, you get some xp. If you grind the markets for an hour, you get some good deals.

If you don't feel like spending the time looking through the markets for the deals, you are more than welcome to buy items from my personal bazaar for 4x the list price of the same items I have in my Retainer.(yes, I do actually list some items that way, and people do buy them from my bazaar)

*note: Like everyone else, I'm not saying the system is perfect, and am welcome to coming changes that SE announced even before the game went live.

Edited, Oct 7th 2010 8:35am by Zenplustheart
#31 Oct 07 2010 at 6:47 AM Rating: Decent
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You like playing "Virtual Shopper" online OP, not all of us do. In fact, most of us don't. We would rather spend those few hours going through bazaars looking for things that we may or may not find you know, fighting stuff? Doing quests, missions, crafting and gathering? I'm sure there's people who like it, there's people who like **** near anything, but the reason you started this thread is you're sick of hearing all the crying, right? And by crying, I'm talking about the thousand to one ratio of people who out number you and hate it. Do you think your post is going to some how make people like it? No. They will still hate it. If 99% of the playerbase hates something so thoroughly there's probably a reason for it and it's probably a good idea to change it. Until it changes, you will probably have a lot of discontent people who absolutely hate it. So ask yourself, wouldn't you be happier if they changed it and as such changed the attitude of so many around you?

Also, if you have made 1 million gil so far, while keeping weapons, armor and crafts up to date, while working a full time job, being married (and giving your wife any attention whatsoever) and doing anything but flunking your classes I commend you. I'm not saying this sarcastically either. You would be the most incredible gamer I've met in my entire life and even while I disagree with you I would have to applaud your ability to be so successful at a MMORPG.
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