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Another Bad SE Idea: Normal - +3 Loot Drop SystemFollow

#1 Oct 06 2010 at 2:08 PM Rating: Default
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Whoever has been playing this game for a week knows just how fast their inventory can fill up from doing anything. Whether it was intentional harvesting/farming or just out killing /random things.

The deal is when you have an item that has a chance to drop regular versions of itself up to +3 that means that one item will take up four inventory slots during regular farming. A typical monster will have around four different items it can drop. So do the math - 4 X 4 = 16 inventory slots!

That is just from farming one monster, what about harvesting? That's many more items in a target group you will gather at.

Don't even get me started on how much this inconveniences crafters, who have to use a wide variability of components to create many of their products.....

Is this SE's ploy to force people to buy more retainers? Wait until people are over their heads in raw materials and then implement the highly sought after option to buy retainers so people will quickly get 2-3 upfront?

I smell shenanigans!
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#2 Oct 06 2010 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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Well, you'll love it when it comes to crafting. Nothing like knowing you can't fail (unless you do, in which case, wow.) My suggestion would be to make +1-3 items only obtainable by crafting and not by NPC drops. That would appear to solve everything, to me atleast.
#3 Oct 06 2010 at 2:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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lol people just find anything to complain...in ffxi, some mobs drop nothing or junk and people complain...now that ffxi drops tons of things and you complain... if there is too much you can handle just sell them of to vendors, sell those drops which you wouldnt craft with. or craft on the spot to make more room.
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#4 Oct 06 2010 at 2:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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I get what the OP is saying, but we have WAY more inventory space than in FFXI.
#5 Oct 06 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Good
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LyleVertigo wrote:
Is this SE's ploy to force people to buy more retainers?
They need to give us the option of having more retainers first.

Kierk wrote:
I get what the OP is saying, but we have WAY more inventory space than in FFXI.
But from what I remember, you received far less loot in FFXI. So it's not really a straight across comparison.
#6 Oct 06 2010 at 2:24 PM Rating: Good
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Kierk wrote:
I get what the OP is saying, but we have WAY more inventory space than in FFXI.


I wouldn't say the space is that much more. Once you did the gobbie bag and mog house expansion quests in XI the space was close to what you start with in FFXIV, except in FFXIV you have far more things that can't stack due to the +1-+3 variations and no means to easily sell them to other players. (but that's another issue).
#7 Oct 06 2010 at 2:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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If its any condolence if you are making Hempen Bowstrings for instance you can use any combination of moko grasses to do it. It calls for 4x moko, but that can be 1 moko 2 moko +1 1 a moko +2 and moko +3. I have found the best way to keep excess inventory space down is to process my raw materials into usable materials and then store those on the retainer.

The way I see it I can have my acct, my player and 2 extra retainers and still be right around 15 a month (and thats assuming that a few of the more obvious problems are either fixed or SE has communicated their intent to fix them within a reasonable timeline)

And for a rare positive thought from me regarding the game: Much like in ffxi it seems safe to assume there will be quests to expand storage.

-Teeg
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#8 Oct 06 2010 at 2:30 PM Rating: Good
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Teegotaru wrote:
If its any condolence if you are making Hempen Bowstrings for instance you can use any combination of moko grasses to do it. It calls for 4x moko, but that can be 1 moko 2 moko +1 1 a moko +2 and moko +3. I have found the best way to keep excess inventory space down is to process my raw materials into usable materials and then store those on the retainer.

The way I see it I can have my acct, my player and 2 extra retainers and still be right around 15 a month (and thats assuming that a few of the more obvious problems are either fixed or SE has communicated their intent to fix them within a reasonable timeline)

And for a rare positive thought from me regarding the game: Much like in ffxi it seems safe to assume there will be quests to expand storage.

-Teeg


Tried that with sheepskin . . . now half of my retainer's inventory is occupied by sheep leather. God damnit.
#9 Oct 06 2010 at 2:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, the ability to combine various grades of an item was SUCH a relief to me. Especially since I'm such a packrat... And THANK GOD the yarn stacks to 99.
#10 Oct 06 2010 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Kierk wrote:
I get what the OP is saying, but we have WAY more inventory space than in FFXI.


No we don't. Not even close. We have way more than we STARTED with in FFXI, but not even close to the storage we have now. Mog satchel, Inventory, bundling ammunition...Mog house, mog safe, furniture, storage npc.
#11 Oct 06 2010 at 2:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Find people who use them in crafting and sell it to them quickly. Or every once in awhile just run into town and all the really cheap stuff sell to an NPC shop.

It's really fun for me to get +1/+2/+3 materials because it generally really helps get +1/+2/+3 products.
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#12 Oct 06 2010 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Kierk wrote:
I get what the OP is saying, but we have WAY more inventory space than in FFXI.


Maybe you do. My main FFXI character has 80 main inven slots, 80 mog satchel slots, 80 mog house slots (effectively about 70 after you deduct furniture that's there to provide storage), 80 storage slots and 80 mog locker slots.

My FFXIV character has 80 main inven slots, 10 bazaar slots, 80 retainer slots and 10 retainer bazaar slots.

Granted, it'll get better once we're allowed to have more than one retainer.
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#13 Oct 06 2010 at 2:45 PM Rating: Decent
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theweenie wrote:
LyleVertigo wrote:
Is this SE's ploy to force people to buy more retainers?
They need to give us the option of having more retainers first.

Kierk wrote:
I get what the OP is saying, but we have WAY more inventory space than in FFXI.
But from what I remember, you received far less loot in FFXI. So it's not really a straight across comparison.



True, but:

1. How many +2s and +3s are you actually getting?

2. Crystals/Shards are in their own "bag."

3. I don't have to carry multiple sets of armor.


At the very least I can see it balancing out in comparison between items received and inventory slots.

However the only reason why I have most of my slots taken up on both myself and my retainer is because I haven't sat down and pick a profession to use the materials therein. Most of this stuff is vendor trash. (To me anyway).

Now, I really like the way SE did inventory this time.

I can farm things, (and if you farm, like grinding farm, you're only dealing with 1 or 2 types of mobs) and with all of this space, I could farm a certain mat for days, without having to dump it off.

I don't want to say its a non-issue, and maybe SE is pulling some smoke and mirrors in regards to space, but I think there is quite a bit here.
#14 Oct 06 2010 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
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Kierk wrote:
[quote=theweenie]
1. How many +2s and +3s are you actually getting?

2. Crystals/Shards are in their own "bag."

3. I don't have to carry multiple sets of armor.


1. About 1 of each level of each item I happen to be getting in a given area. IE. Actual storage is remaining inventory divided by 4.

2. This is nice, but typically in FFXI you end up with a couple of stacks of rather worthless crystals at best in a given outing.

3. You don't? I have 5 weapons, 12 tools, 2 sets of armour on me as well as situational pieces (Onion Helm). That's at rank 10 where armour is still useable across multiple jobs...

#15 Oct 06 2010 at 3:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Yodabunny wrote:
Kierk wrote:
[quote=theweenie]
1. How many +2s and +3s are you actually getting?

2. Crystals/Shards are in their own "bag."

3. I don't have to carry multiple sets of armor.


1. About 1 of each level of each item I happen to be getting in a given area. IE. Actual storage is remaining inventory divided by 4.

2. This is nice, but typically in FFXI you end up with a couple of stacks of rather worthless crystals at best in a given outing.

3. You don't? I have 5 weapons, 12 tools, 2 sets of armor on me as well as situational pieces (Onion Helm). That's at rank 10 where armor is still usable across multiple jobs...



I'm in the same boat. I'm leveling all classes. In XI I could create a mule and use the mail system to have an extra character with a whole new set of storage facilities.

Alas, in XIV there is no current mail system so creating a new character will have no boon.
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#16 Oct 06 2010 at 4:06 PM Rating: Good
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LyleVertigo wrote:


I'm in the same boat. I'm leveling all classes. In XI I could create a mule and use the mail system to have an extra character with a whole new set of storage facilities.

Alas, in XIV there is no current mail system so creating a new character will have no boon.



In beta, I used the retainers to transfer by going to the least populated ward, and sold things for 1 gil. OR laundered gil through high priced items.
#17 Oct 06 2010 at 4:50 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Maybe you do. My main FFXI character has 80 main inven slots, 80 mog satchel slots, 80 mog house slots (effectively about 70 after you deduct furniture that's there to provide storage), 80 storage slots and 80 mog locker slots.

My FFXIV character has 80 main inven slots, 10 bazaar slots, 80 retainer slots and 10 retainer bazaar slots.

Granted, it'll get better once we're allowed to have more than one retainer.


you also have to remember, this game (14) is two weeks old. did you have 400 slots of inventory space two weeks into 11? no, nobody did. so when you compare beginning 14 to beginning 11, 14 has a default of much more inventory space.
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#18 Oct 06 2010 at 5:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quor wrote:
you also have to remember, this game (14) is two weeks old. did you have 400 slots of inventory space two weeks into 11? no, nobody did. so when you compare beginning 14 to beginning 11, 14 has a default of much more inventory space.
But again, that is offset by the increase in loot. Just from fighting marmots you will end up with several inventory slots taken up by walnuts, furs, and moko grass. And their +1 +2 +3 varieties.

There's not much in the way of vendor trash here. Virtually every item has some kind of use. With the armoury system built around players to switch between the classes, that encourages players to hang onto items since they can use them.

But as it stands right now, you don't have enough room to do that. You have to hang onto the useful items, tools/weapons, and alternative gear sets.

Assume for a moment that you've taken on one class from each discipline. If you want to be properly geared for each of those jobs, than ignoring jewelry, that means you will potentially be carrying...
Head x4
Body x4
Legs x4
Hands x4
Feet x4
Waist x4
Weapon x2
Tools x4

Which comes out to a total of 30 inventory slots already taken up. That's assuming you aren't a DoW class that uses ammunition or a shield, and that you have no jewelry. You have an additional 2 slots taken up by your undershirt/shorts, so now you're up to 32 slots.

Supposing your DoH class is miner, you're going to be bringing up copper and tin ore fairly regularly, as well as the rarer ores like yellow copper ore, limonite, and iron. Ignoring everything else that you can mine or quarry, if you dig up those 5 types of ores and only two of the +1 +2 +3 varieties, that would be 3 slots for each type of ore, making 15 in total. Now you're up to 47 slots. That isn't even counting multiple stacks.

As you start crafting, you will end up creating materials that you don't immediately use up. For example, if you're a blacksmith you will create 12 copper buckles at a time. All of these extra components will probably be useful at some point, so you wont want to throw them away. That's more space gone.

That's over half your inventory space gone before you even get a single piece of loot from mobs. It's also before you have to take on another DoH class to create particular components needed for your main DoH. Which would mean you have to start carrying the tools, materials, and components from that class as well.

What I'm trying to illustrate is how quickly you run out of space here. It wasn't the same in XI, so you can't use that as an example. The armoury system encourages players to switch between classes, but the current item/loot system prevents that from being an option.
#19 Oct 06 2010 at 5:39 PM Rating: Decent
If I'm farming for specific drops,I keep only those drops...everything else rots in the loot list. If I'm farming for shards, everything rots in the loot list. Pack ratting in XIV isn't nearly so necessary as it might have been in XI. You learn very quickly what is worth keeping and what belongs on the ground (or with a vendor if you should happen to come across one). My inventory is jam packed to the point where I have to toss things in my bazaar just so I have room to move things between my character and my retainer. When the option to add more retainers is implemented, I'll probably get two...another for storage and one to plunk in the wards that will carry my finished inventory ready for sale.

But as far as the +1/+2?=3 items, nobody who complains about that is a crafter. There's nothing quite like starting a synth for a base material or component with 150 durability and 200+ quality right at the start, especially if it's a synth you're not quite yet at the rank you can manage easily.
#20 Oct 06 2010 at 5:40 PM Rating: Good
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Kierk wrote:
I get what the OP is saying, but we have WAY more inventory space than in FFXI.


I wouldn't say the space is that much more. Once you did the gobbie bag and mog house expansion quests in XI the space was close to what you start with in FFXIV, except in FFXIV you have far more things that can't stack due to the +1-+3 variations and no means to easily sell them to other players. (but that's another issue).


Wait, what? The inventory space in XIV is less. By quite a bit. In XI you start with 30 inventory, 50 safe. You can immediately pump your storage up to 80 for very little gil. You can ultimately end up with 80 safe, 80 storage, 80 locker, 80 inventory AND 80 satchel. That's 400 slots.

In 14 you start with 80 inventory (just like XIs 30inv/50safe), and a retainer with 80 (which is much like storage in XI). Aside from the fact bazaar takes items out of your inventory, and crystals have their own slots, you really don't have more room. Especially considering you can't mail items hence no mules.
#21 Oct 06 2010 at 5:58 PM Rating: Decent
Why are you people comparing a game 8+ years old to one not even 8 days into full official service? FFXI had chocobos and airships, too. Are you going to whine about not having them in XIV next?
#22 Oct 06 2010 at 6:10 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
FFXI had chocobos and airships, too. Are you going to whine about not having them in XIV next?
I am :X

Chocobos at least should have been in for the 30th release. They designed the world with the intention for us to ride chocobos or use airships. But because they're not in yet, and because anima is limited, we're forced to waste upwards of 30 minutes running from point A to point B. That's not how they intended it, but it's what we're having to do. I think that's a whine-worthy issue.
#23 Oct 06 2010 at 6:12 PM Rating: Good
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I'm a bit of a packrat too.

I'm keeping items "just incase they are useful later". So I've already run out of space.

But as mentioned. For example, craft all those ores etc in to nuggets and then ingots. This can save on space.

Saying that, when extra retainers are available I will be getting some so I can have extra mules to store my loot.

I dont like to throw stuff away and the npc vendor selling (which I do at times) is always very cheap.

I wont mind spending an extra £1 or whatever it is for some more space.
#24 Oct 06 2010 at 6:52 PM Rating: Decent
theweenie wrote:
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
FFXI had chocobos and airships, too. Are you going to whine about not having them in XIV next?
I am :X

Chocobos at least should have been in for the 30th release. They designed the world with the intention for us to ride chocobos or use airships. But because they're not in yet, and because anima is limited, we're forced to waste upwards of 30 minutes running from point A to point B. That's not how they intended it, but it's what we're having to do. I think that's a whine-worthy issue.


The point that you missed is that people are complaining about what isn't available yet in XIV and comparing it to what they had in XI...a game almost a decade old. It's a poor attitude to have going into a new MMO and people are ruining the experience for themselves by using it as a justification.
#25 Oct 06 2010 at 8:51 PM Rating: Decent
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This is obviously due to PS3 limitations.

What? I found it entertaining.
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#26 Oct 06 2010 at 9:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Yep, learned this tonight doing mining , when walk fighting back to town i thought other people was throwing stuff away till i was alone and it was still dropping.It was a good lesson for me to learn about delayed loot like FF11.
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#27 Oct 06 2010 at 10:40 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
theweenie wrote:
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
FFXI had chocobos and airships, too. Are you going to whine about not having them in XIV next?
I am :X

Chocobos at least should have been in for the 30th release. They designed the world with the intention for us to ride chocobos or use airships. But because they're not in yet, and because anima is limited, we're forced to waste upwards of 30 minutes running from point A to point B. That's not how they intended it, but it's what we're having to do. I think that's a whine-worthy issue.


The point that you missed is that people are complaining about what isn't available yet in XIV and comparing it to what they had in XI...a game almost a decade old. It's a poor attitude to have going into a new MMO and people are ruining the experience for themselves by using it as a justification.

Everyone that wants chocobos and airships right away also forgets that 1: you couldn't ride a chocobo in FFXI until you quested a license at lvl 20, and 2: you had to progress to a certain point in missions to ride an airship.

You had to be a certain lvl to get a mount in WoW too, before anyone derails this into yet another "Well this other MMO has this, so why doesn't this one?! Smiley: cry Smiley: cry Smiley: cry"
#28 Oct 06 2010 at 10:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sir Reiterpallasch wrote:
You had to be a certain lvl to get a mount in WoW too, before anyone derails this into yet another "Well this other MMO has this, so why doesn't this one?! Smiley: cry Smiley: cry Smiley: cry"
But not to use the griffons and bat-things... whatever they were called. Which were the main form of travel, even once you had a mount.

I'd be fine with the chocobos and airships missing if they either upped the anima regeneration rate, or did away with anima until those alternative forms of travel were implemented.

There are ways of compensating for features missing or not being fully implemented, like my suggestion above, but they don't seem willing to do those temporary fixes. If they would do it, they could alleviate many player frustrations in several areas. That would earn them some badly needed brownie points as well.

Edited, Oct 7th 2010 12:51am by theweenie
#29 Oct 07 2010 at 12:50 AM Rating: Default
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MikaelCS wrote:
lol people just find anything to complain...in ffxi, some mobs drop nothing or junk and people complain...now that ffxi drops tons of things and you complain... if there is too much you can handle just sell them of to vendors, sell those drops which you wouldnt craft with. or craft on the spot to make more room.


Stop posting. The issue isn't that the drop it - it's that there is no inventory sort(so you can't easily organize them) and selling crap(or dropping it) takes forever due to UI lag and network latency. Next time you're on - try dropping or selling 20 items, and time it ; let us know how long it takes. K, thanks.
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#30 Oct 07 2010 at 2:24 AM Rating: Decent
loyaltrekie wrote:
MikaelCS wrote:
lol people just find anything to complain...in ffxi, some mobs drop nothing or junk and people complain...now that ffxi drops tons of things and you complain... if there is too much you can handle just sell them of to vendors, sell those drops which you wouldnt craft with. or craft on the spot to make more room.


Stop posting. The issue isn't that the drop it - it's that there is no inventory sort(so you can't easily organize them) and selling crap(or dropping it) takes forever due to UI lag and network latency. Next time you're on - try dropping or selling 20 items, and time it ; let us know how long it takes. K, thanks.


And in typical numpty fashion, instead of addressing the issues, people are calling for the system to be scrapped altogether. If the issue is UI lag and lack of sorting feature, then why scrap the NQ - +3 system to address it? When inventory sorting is added, part of the problem will go away. Hopefully SE will sort out lag to the point where NPC transactions (and inventory functions in general) will be faster in the future.
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