Forum Settings
       
This Forum is Read Only

Why SE must implement an AHFollow

#1 Oct 10 2010 at 9:27 PM Rating: Decent
15 posts
Or at least some system better than the current mess.

I think the reasoning behind no AH was that it would reduce RMT. That's possible to some degree but RMT can still get around that by 1 on 1 trades. I'm assuming this is possible in FFXIV as I have not purchased a copy as of yet.

Here is why the game needs an AH:

When all the free subscribers leave, the economy will become even worse because there won't be as many crafters putting out materials so more people will become even more frustrated and thus it becomes a downward spiral resembling a real-life economy like Zimbabwe.

#2 Oct 10 2010 at 9:40 PM Rating: Decent
spence81 wrote:
Or at least some system better than the current mess.

I think the reasoning behind no AH was that it would reduce RMT. That's possible to some degree but RMT can still get around that by 1 on 1 trades. I'm assuming this is possible in FFXIV as I have not purchased a copy as of yet.

Here is why the game needs an AH:

When all the free subscribers leave, the economy will become even worse because there won't be as many crafters putting out materials so more people will become even more frustrated and thus it becomes a downward spiral resembling a real-life economy like Zimbabwe.



An auction house would be a much better approach, but they don't actually need to add one in. What they need to do is fix the current retainer system by adding in a search function. I believe they already plan to do this of course within the next week I think. We'll have to see when the next update hits.
____________________________
FINAL FANTASY XIV Roleplayer

Sair Gammonari - Hyur Midlander Male - Conjurer (Somewhat retired.)
Mihana Zhralyia - Miqo'te Seeker of the Sun Female - Archer



#3 Oct 10 2010 at 9:42 PM Rating: Good
**
353 posts
While they are at that, add a search function for finding players LFG.
#4 Oct 10 2010 at 9:43 PM Rating: Decent
15 posts
I agree, that would take much less effort. Also that alone should stop a chunk of subscribers from leaving. Lets hope much more is done.
#5 Oct 10 2010 at 10:01 PM Rating: Default
7 posts
While I agree that the game does need some more functionality when purchasing from the Wards I don't fully agree that we are in need of an auction house. The problems that come with an Auction House, like blind pricing and severe undercutting made shopping/selling in FFXI annoying from time to time. While those aren't enough reasons to neglect an Auction House they did make for a very messy economy and an easier method for RMT to work the system to their benefit.

Adding search functionality to the Wards will become necessary with more people joining the game. I've seen people saying "But they add a search you might as well just add an Auction House", I disagree. With a search function you will be able to see the prices of the items in question and never have to pay 1000gil more for an item that someone was selling for 9001 gil . Not to mention you won't be able to accidentally overpay for an item to the tenth degree. Ever been one of those people who paid 400,000gil for a 40,000gil shield? Retainers will prevent that.

Also if someone is in search of some gil they would be able to visit the wards and do a quick little search to repair someone's item.

People continue to bash the retainer system but I believe it can and will work with some TLC. I love the idea of being able to continue my adventures while a NPC finds me armor, repairs my weapons and holds onto my extra gear, all without me having to leave my character on for 10hrs raising my electricity bill.
____________________________
Insanity is merely a point of view.

http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-ffxiv/17837_0761af3d6ffec710.png
#6 Oct 10 2010 at 10:09 PM Rating: Good
*
52 posts
Quote:
An auction house would be a much better approach, but they don't actually need to add one in. What they need to do is fix the current retainer system by adding in a search function. I believe they already plan to do this of course within the next week I think. We'll have to see when the next update hits.


An auction house is still better then this mess, regardless it's conception. The first few wards in each city are full, and take forever to load up retainers, which still brings up the issue of searching for your item.

You'll also notice people have spilled out of the wards, and are now bazaaring all over the place in a desperate bid to sell whatever crap they're shilling.

Auction houses are nice because you don't have to wait for that certain PC/NPC to load, in hopes that you can claim your product before somebody else does.

Auction houses can also bridge regions, and perhaps help us save some of our already overtaxed anima.
#7 Oct 10 2010 at 10:22 PM Rating: Decent
**
518 posts
I agree this game needs an AH. I think the current system is flawed and time intensive.

But atm i'm all for no AH.

1: We can't undercut the **** out of each other in crafting. Remember in XI unless you HQ'd you lost gil on every synth. Now there were the few exceptions @100 but those were VERY rare. In this system we can keep costs higher to absorb level up costs and break costs. I'm still making 80-90k on items that if there was an AH would be losing gil on.

2: Just Bazar. **** the wards and everything in em. I just Bazar in a well trafficed area. People run by check me out, maybe buy maybe don't. but i get alot more exposure than a stupid NPC burried in a sea of NPCs

3: It makes us branch out: Now i hate bugging people and asking them to make me something they could sell for lots of gil.....but the current system forces us too. So it's kinda like a inside trading system. You get enough people to supply you source mats for cheap you can make ALOT of money off a synth that you normal couldn't.

However, with all that said. Eventually we will need an AH, or the search function should help greatly. We'll see. In the mean time, I'll just bazzar my ****, and use my retainer as a mule.
#8 Oct 10 2010 at 10:29 PM Rating: Decent
RustyMcDaggers wrote:
Quote:
An auction house would be a much better approach, but they don't actually need to add one in. What they need to do is fix the current retainer system by adding in a search function. I believe they already plan to do this of course within the next week I think. We'll have to see when the next update hits.


An auction house is still better then this mess, regardless it's conception. The first few wards in each city are full, and take forever to load up retainers, which still brings up the issue of searching for your item.

You'll also notice people have spilled out of the wards, and are now bazaaring all over the place in a desperate bid to sell whatever crap they're shilling.

Auction houses are nice because you don't have to wait for that certain PC/NPC to load, in hopes that you can claim your product before somebody else does.

Auction houses can also bridge regions, and perhaps help us save some of our already overtaxed anima.


You did read what I said, right? I said "an auction house would be a much better approach" meaning yes, it would be better if we had one. However we don't really NEED one in the game to sell our stuff. The Retainer system can work, they just need to add in the sorely needed tools to make it function properly. At this time most just avoid using them due to a lack of means to find what you want. In fact I believe they have already announced they intend on making specific wards for specific types of stuff such as one for armor, one for weapons, one for materals, and so on. There I think was mention of a search function too. In a way it will work similar to an auction house with the exception being you'll need to travel to that specific retainer to buy the item instead of just buying it from a single counter. And by the way, FFXI featured city-specific auction houses too. Some regions (Such as Kazham, Rabao, and Tavnazia.) were linked to certain cities. It wasn't just one huge auction house you could access from anywhere in the world.

In a way I think they may have gone with the retainers to try encouraging people to pick up a saw, hammer, needle, alembic, or whatever and make an attempt at actually crafting stuff. If everything was readily available then we'd have only a handful of crafters making stuff and everyone else trying to speed their way to the level cap completely avoiding the DoH and DoL classes. It's not the best approach mind you, but it works.
____________________________
FINAL FANTASY XIV Roleplayer

Sair Gammonari - Hyur Midlander Male - Conjurer (Somewhat retired.)
Mihana Zhralyia - Miqo'te Seeker of the Sun Female - Archer



#9 Oct 10 2010 at 11:20 PM Rating: Good
*
52 posts
Quote:
You did read what I said, right?


Sure did.

Quote:
However we don't really NEED one in the game to sell our stuff.


Of course not. ****, we have NPCs that we can sell our stuff too.

Quote:
At this time most just avoid using them due to a lack of means to find what you want. In fact I believe they have already announced they intend on making specific wards for specific types of stuff such as one for armor, one for weapons, one for materals, and so on. There I think was mention of a search function too. In a way it will work similar to an auction house with the exception being you'll need to travel to that specific retainer to buy the item instead of just buying it from a single counter. And by the way, FFXI featured city-specific auction houses too. Some regions (Such as Kazham, Rabao, and Tavnazia.) were linked to certain cities. It wasn't just one huge auction house you could access from anywhere in the world.


We can't find it, because it's a *********** of people, not a nice list of items, which a search function will not remove. And while yes, the three starter city auction houses in FFXI were independent from each other, the main AH people used, bridged Whitegate, Jeuno, Tavnazia Safehold, and Nashmau.

People keep trying to make this bazaar system work, and quite frankly, the only way to do this, is to *not* have it be the main way to sell items.

Our beloved FFXI also had an item search function for bazaars. It was crap.
#10 Oct 10 2010 at 11:24 PM Rating: Good
***
2,535 posts
EzellLangor wrote:
1: We can't undercut the sh*t out of each other in crafting. Remember in XI unless you HQ'd you lost gil on every synth. Now there were the few exceptions @100 but those were VERY rare. In this system we can keep costs higher to absorb level up costs and break costs. I'm still making 80-90k on items that if there was an AH would be losing gil on.


Not the AH's fault.

That happened because of a poorly thought-out economy - the mere existence of HQs coupled with the fact that durable goods were rarely removed from the economy led inevitably to item markets becoming over-saturated and thus sucking all profitability out of NQ items.

You're not seeing this in FFXIV because the game is still new - it took years for that to happen in FFXI, and you are deluding yourself if you think it's not going to happen in FFXIV, AH or no.
#11 Oct 11 2010 at 4:32 AM Rating: Decent
***
1,408 posts
Quote:
An auction house would be a much better approach, but they don't actually need to add one in. What they need to do is fix the current retainer system by adding in a search function. I believe they already plan to do this of course within the next week I think. We'll have to see when the next update hits


Agree'd and your very right, I hear its this week they are doing it. Problem is SE keeps tight lipped on things... some times its too tight.
____________________________


If my velocity starts to make you sweat, then just don't
let go
#12 Oct 11 2010 at 6:22 AM Rating: Good
Sage
**
562 posts
EzellLangor wrote:
1: We can't undercut the sh*t out of each other in crafting. Remember in XI unless you HQ'd you lost gil on every synth. Now there were the few exceptions @100 but those were VERY rare. In this system we can keep costs higher to absorb level up costs and break costs. I'm still making 80-90k on items that if there was an AH would be losing gil on.


A system that keeps prices artificially inflated is not good for the long-term health of an economy, especially one so consumer and raw-good driven like FFXIV.

Furthermore, the only reason prices are driving a profit on low-level crafts right now is because of elevated demand for those goods and consumer frustration from not being able to find what they need. Such an system cannot sustain itself.
____________________________
FFXIV - Fellows - Fabul
FFXI - Fellows - Gilgamesh


#13 Oct 11 2010 at 7:40 AM Rating: Excellent
Guru
*
106 posts
Undercutting is not the fault of an AH, and an AH certainly doesn't "set artificially low prices" as I have seen people say. Undercutting is due to excess supply of an item with lots of people trying to unload said item. The price isn't artificially low. The price is just the result of supply and demand (same as in the real world). If the price really was too low, people wouldn't put their goods up for sale. There is SOME reason that they are compelled to sell their item for such a low price, else they wouldn't do it.

As was mentioned by another poster above, the reason why so many items couldn't be crafted for profit later in FFXI is because all of the old items stayed in the economy eventually leading to a gross over-supply. That's why MMOs started implementing BOE items to the game. Preventing items from being resold after they are used helps to keep supply down. The problem with FFXI was/is that they never did this for crafted items. The closest thing that they have are the EX items (like BoP in WoW), and that was more of a counter measure to prevent excessive camping of mobs than an attempt at stemming the supply of items. This approach certainly didn't do the crafters any favors.

The one issue i do have with the FFXI AH is the blind bid system. That system, in a way, takes away the freedom of the buyer. If Mr. Known RMT has item X for sale for 1999g while Mr. Honest Crafter has the same item for sale for 2000g, I'm FORCED to buy the item from Mr. Known RMT. With a different style of AH, I could see the names of the sellers and their asking prices, and I could CHOOSE who to buy the item from. It could very well be worth it to me to pay one extra gil to avoid supporting a known RMT. That AH system can also result in the accidental mis-bid that was mentioned above.



Edited, Oct 11th 2010 9:44am by Izuul

Edited, Oct 11th 2010 10:02am by Izuul
#14 Oct 11 2010 at 8:19 AM Rating: Good
*
139 posts
Izuul wrote:
Undercutting is not the fault of an AH, and an AH certainly doesn't "set artificially low prices" as I have seen people say. Undercutting is due to excess supply of an item with lots of people trying to unload said item. The price isn't artificially low. The price is just the result of supply and demand (same as in the real world). If the price really was too low, people wouldn't put their goods up for sale. There is SOME reason that they are compelled to sell their item for such a low price, else they wouldn't do it.

As was mentioned by another poster above, the reason why so many items couldn't be crafted for profit later in FFXI is because all of the old items stayed in the economy eventually leading to a gross over-supply. That's why MMOs started implementing BOE items to the game. Preventing items from being resold after they are used helps to keep supply down. The problem with FFXI was/is that they never did this for crafted items. The closest thing that they have are the EX items (like BoP in WoW), and that was more of a counter measure to prevent excessive camping of mobs than an attempt at stemming the supply of items. This approach certainly didn't do the crafters any favors.

The one issue i do have with the FFXI AH is the blind bid system. That system, in a way, takes away the freedom of the buyer. If Mr. Known RMT has item X for sale for 1999g while Mr. Honest Crafter has the same item for sale for 2000g, I'm FORCED to buy the item from Mr. Known RMT. With a different style of AH, I could see the names of the sellers and their asking prices, and I could CHOOSE who to buy the item from. It could very well be worth it to me to pay one extra gil to avoid supporting a known RMT. That AH system can also result in the accidental mis-bid that was mentioned above.



Couldn't have said it better myself. Supply and "undercutting" is great for the consumer and an open auction would take away the mystery about what you are going to pay for an item. It'd also save me a lot of time at the AH bidding up to find the minimum price to pay for an item.
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 21 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (21)