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#52 Oct 11 2010 at 2:37 PM Rating: Good
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The only reason a person will subscribe to the game at this point is optimism. Regardless of what you like about the game now, you are betting that SE will make the game significantly larger in scope and functionally more interesting. Even without delving into technical issues and the interface, there isn't enough content to keep the game going for long.

Balancing new content with monthly subscription fees is at the very heart of MMOs. The main question on which we are forced to speculate, and the source of a large amount of dread and debate here is, "What will SE be able to accomplish in the near future?". They are so damned stubborn when it comes to communicating their vision of the game to the fan base that I think a lot of people are skeptical that they will ever get on the "right" track, particularly in the wake of a lackluster launch.

Those who choose to play FFXIV are holding out for a bright future for the game.
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#53 Oct 11 2010 at 3:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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striveldt wrote:
I have a fiance, a child, a full time 9-5, I'm in a band and a basketball league. That is to say, I have maybe, MAYBE, 6 hours a week to play. And that is perfect for this game.

MikaelCS wrote:
It fits my meager playing time, that varies between 30 minutes to 2 hours a day. If later on grinding a combat class xp will be really hard, I could always fall back on crafting classes to get me going.


I think this casual play/not much time argument is actually very much at odds with FFXIV. While you can do some leves and make some progress, you have a big issue with the lack of an AH system.

If you want a basic new weapon for a rank 15 class and you have an hour a day to play, you might not be able to even FIND it in the god awful market wards if you look for the whole hour. And there went your FFXIV time for the day.

The other solution (which isn't much of one) is to level all crafts yourself. But that STILL requires sourcing materials, and also would require a big time investment just to level the crafts. Time that the player without a massive about of time to dedicate to FFXIV wouldn't have.

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#54 Oct 11 2010 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good
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Sochie wrote:
Vega62a wrote:

This right here is a logical flaw. The assumption you seem to be putting forth is that if a game receives bad press, we cannot enjoy it. A certain player, a single discrete element of the community, enjoying the game cannot be compared to the aggregate of many players, or a few reviewers, be they credible or not (I have long considered Kevin VanOrd a hack reviewer, dating back to his pan of Nier because it wasn't paced like FFXIII. This has nothing to do with the scores he assigns and everything to do with why he assigns them) who have put forth their opnions on the topic. Not because one is bigger and more valid than the other, but because they are in many ways unrelated.


Actually, it's not a logical flaw. Follow my reasoning a bit, and see where I'm coming from.

Bad press = less people buy the game. No problem right? Less kids swimming in my pool, tighter knit fanbase, neh?
Less people buy the game = less revenue for the creators. Again, not a problem right? It's Square we're talking about!
Less revenue for the creators = less ability to maintain the game. This is where the problem lies boys and girls. Square maybe SEEM like a juggernaut to us, but rest assured they're a company like any other. I'm certain that there's a graph somewhere in S-E headquarters where some accountant has plotted out projected income from 14. Somewhere there is a memo or a report stating "We need x amount of subscribers per month to justify y expenditures in the game so we can hire z programmers to do this content patch." If the "vibe" out there this early on inhibits sales and continued subscribers by a certain amount, we're looking at server consolidations, patches being delayed due to the workforce being cutback, all around problems for the people who ARE playing. Delays in much needed fixes to the game result in more fencesitters moving on to NewMMO#2921, and not coming back to 14.


And none of what you've said pertains directly to MY enjoymenet of FFXIV. Do you understand? You've talked about all the things that you want to have happen so that you can enjoy FFXIV, and that's your discrete example. My discrete element in the "FFXIV" set enjoys the game right now, as it is. It is a logical flaw. You are trying to relate directly the average value of a set and its discrete elements, which are all independent of one another. It's math. What you are trying to say, and this is true, is that the lower the average value of the FFXIV ratings set, the less improvement the game will see, on an objective scale. (More content, bug fixes, etc.) But none of these things are necessarily tied to any discrete element's value, which is of necessity a subjective experience. My individual rating is high, even with bugs and a low amount of content, and that is a subjective element. Do you understand? It is indeed a logical flaw. I see what you're trying to say, but what you're trying to say and what you've said are not the same thing, except in the possible eventuality that FFXIV is shut down for good, which is an extreme, but possible.

Quote:

FFXIV is thus far a critical failure, with potential to be a commercial failure. I'd agree with the last section of your post more fully if it wasn't for the fact that S-E had 8 years with one MMO, and then plenty more time in alpha and beta to LISTEN to the fanbase as to what is wrong with the game. It's an insult only in the fact that S-E's unpolished and hurried release of the game blatantly ignored any input by the fans and testers of the game. THAT is why it insults people. Square is well known for making quality products. We have grown accustomed to it. When the beta was out, the fans openly and vociferously objected to the state of the game, and S-E ignored it.


In the end, Square Enix has to make the game that it wants to make. That is art, and gaming is art. It did listen to some of the community's requests, and is presently working on implementing other requests (market ward search is in the works, by all indicators), but it is, in the end, their choice, not yours.

You have grown accustomed to the high quality of SE's releases. You played FFXI, which is at present a high-quality product, although I would remind you that it was not a high-quality product at launch. FFXIV is not FFXI, and went in a different direction, from a design standpoint. Had FFXIV been a graphically-updated port of FFXI, you would have every right to expect that it would be a release with a similar level of quality.

It is not, though. It is more different than it is the same, and as a result, they tried new things. A lot of new things. As it turned out, most people didn't like a lot of these new things, and they'll either have to change them, or lose those customers. That's their choice. Acting like they owed you something of FFXI's quality at release, when they are, simply put, seperate games; acting like deliberate design choices were a slap in the face when they were actually an experiment in a new direction for SE; all of these things are not insulting. You may expect miracles from SE, but they can't deliver. They're making a wholly new game, and a wholly new MMO, and a wholly new MMO takes time to acquire its polish. I think there are a lot of things FFXIV should change about itself, but all of these things are polish, are bells and whistles. Some of them will be changed, some won't. This is not a personal insult to me. The rest are bug fixes, and those come with the territory.

To sum up, expecting that FFXIV would, at launch, have a similar level of quality to that of FFXI 8 years post-launch is silly, because they're two separate games with more differences than similarities. The lack of, or experimentation with, features that you feel like you are owed in an MMO is deliberate, and may or may not be remedied, but is not sufficient to call a game an artistic failure.
#55 Oct 11 2010 at 5:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Funny, I would have said:

Quote:
You have grown accustomed to the basic features included in games that make them enjoyable. You played several MMOs, which could now be considered high-quality products, although I would remind you that it was not a high-quality product at launch. FFXIV is not your seasoned MMO, and went in a different direction, from a design standpoint. Had FFXIV been a graphically-updated port of any other game, you would have probably been happier than you are now since it was an updated version of the game with a similar level of quality.

One of my old bosses said it best. There is no need to reinvent the wheel. Sometimes, it's better to take what you know will work and improve upon it.

Quote:
The lack of, or experimentation with, features that you feel like you are owed in an MMO is deliberate, and may or may not be remedied, but is not sufficient to call a game an artistic failure.

No one called it an artistic failure. Can anything "artistic" be called a failure? Art is about expression. This is business and business is all about revenue.

Edited, Oct 11th 2010 5:14pm by sixgauge
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#56 Oct 11 2010 at 6:12 PM Rating: Decent
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TwistedOwl wrote:
BlueDolphin wrote:
PerrinofSylph wrote:
I liked the Postman and Waterworld... Actually I really like The Postman alot. I know it's crap, but I love it just the same.


I'll see your love for The Postman and Waterworld, and raise you my secret campy love for 5th Element. I get looks from people whenever I mention that movie and like in the same sentence.


5th Element is one of my favorites too.(See my character name below) I also immediately started thinking of how a lot of my favorite movies probably got poor reviews. Also that some movies/games I consider pretty worthless get great reviews. Sports games come to mind there.
Edited, Oct 11th 2010 12:15pm by TwistedOwl


5th Element got bad reviews???? That's like the BEST. MOVIE. EVER. I <3 that movie.
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#57 Oct 11 2010 at 7:06 PM Rating: Good
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PinkMermaid wrote:
TwistedOwl wrote:
BlueDolphin wrote:
PerrinofSylph wrote:
I liked the Postman and Waterworld... Actually I really like The Postman alot. I know it's crap, but I love it just the same.


I'll see your love for The Postman and Waterworld, and raise you my secret campy love for 5th Element. I get looks from people whenever I mention that movie and like in the same sentence.


5th Element is one of my favorites too.(See my character name below) I also immediately started thinking of how a lot of my favorite movies probably got poor reviews. Also that some movies/games I consider pretty worthless get great reviews. Sports games come to mind there.
Edited, Oct 11th 2010 12:15pm by TwistedOwl


5th Element got bad reviews???? That's like the BEST. MOVIE. EVER. I <3 that movie.


It actually got generally positive reviews. However, the bad reviews were far more negative than the good reviews were positive, which is why it's at 72% at Rotten Tomatoes (which only tracks favorable vs. unfavorable) but only 52/100 at Metacritic (which averages review scores).
#58 Oct 11 2010 at 7:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Very well written post, OP. It got me thinking.

Generally speaking, I'm pretty frustrated with this game. I find myself daily saying sentences that begin with profanity & end with Tanaka. Why? All the same reasons others have said, things that the common MMO player would very much come to expect.

It's kind of like shooters, if you're a FPS vet, generally speaking they all play the same, though on the surface they may feel a little different at first. A few hours in, you get the feel for it like any other FPS.

The same thing applies to MMO's. Yet, this one dropped a few balls. Quite a few. It's baffling.

However, SE stated they wanted to build a game with a little different direction. I just didn't think they would go this far off course.

Now, there are things I like. I like how in FFXIV I can hop on and start doing something. I played FFXI more than any other game in my gaming history, I leveled 6 jobs to 75 before I quit, was totally immersed in that game. But, I remember the first time I started playing that game. I HATED it. I recall being in Garliage Citadel on my PLD, level 34, waiting and waiting for HOURS to get an invite. None came. I logged off with nothing to do. I quit. Yes, I came back, and eventually loved the game more than any other game. But I quit because I hated waiting, dependant upon others to get anything done.

I don't have that problem in FFXIV. I can hop on, talk to my old LS friends, grab a few leves and make some gil. Go check out some new gear to play for. Craft a little bit. No downtime, at all. I have the occasional great time here and there. I can log on, immediately hop to doing something. I also don't mind grinding, if I end up having enough time that it would be required. So the basics of that I like, it keeps me going for now, while I cringe at all the issues. At the end of the day, I can still play an MMORPG and have little downtime, for the tradeoff of having to deal with some aggrivating (ok, I admit, really aggrivating) issues. I hope SE can fix it, but I question how much rewriting of code they would have to do as some of this stuff just seems inherently flawed.

So, I've already spent the money, I will enjoy the game a little bit, and see what SE does.

Right now, it's a mixed bag, but I don't disagree with any review I've read. It sucks that the positives I mentioned above are outweighed (review wise) by the bumps along that path. Because it's some of the simplest things causing the issues, it increases the frustration because you're just left baffled.



Edited, Oct 11th 2010 10:07pm by KnocturnalOne
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#59 Oct 11 2010 at 10:06 PM Rating: Good
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Sochie wrote:
Vega62a wrote:

This right here is a logical flaw. The assumption you seem to be putting forth is that if a game receives bad press, we cannot enjoy it. A certain player, a single discrete element of the community, enjoying the game cannot be compared to the aggregate of many players, or a few reviewers, be they credible or not (I have long considered Kevin VanOrd a hack reviewer, dating back to his pan of Nier because it wasn't paced like FFXIII. This has nothing to do with the scores he assigns and everything to do with why he assigns them) who have put forth their opnions on the topic. Not because one is bigger and more valid than the other, but because they are in many ways unrelated.


Actually, it's not a logical flaw. Follow my reasoning a bit, and see where I'm coming from.

Bad press = less people buy the game. No problem right? Less kids swimming in my pool, tighter knit fanbase, neh?
Less people buy the game = less revenue for the creators. Again, not a problem right? It's Square we're talking about!
Less revenue for the creators = less ability to maintain the game. This is where the problem lies boys and girls. Square maybe SEEM like a juggernaut to us, but rest assured they're a company like any other. I'm certain that there's a graph somewhere in S-E headquarters where some accountant has plotted out projected income from 14. Somewhere there is a memo or a report stating "We need x amount of subscribers per month to justify y expenditures in the game so we can hire z programmers to do this content patch." If the "vibe" out there this early on inhibits sales and continued subscribers by a certain amount, we're looking at server consolidations, patches being delayed due to the workforce being cutback, all around problems for the people who ARE playing. Delays in much needed fixes to the game result in more fencesitters moving on to NewMMO#2921, and not coming back to 14.

Take a watch at this: http://www.massively.com/2010/10/10/gdco-2010-apbs-executive-producer-talks-about-what-went-wrong/

The things I'd heard about APB were fairly positive. But they went down quick. These guys had an interesting vision of a game. I don't want to see something like what they experienced happen to 14.

Quote:

You're right that the reviews coming out are going to hamper the progress of FFXIV in terms of community expansion. With that being said, does that somehow limit my enjoyment of the game? If I play a game and enjoy it, am I going to jump ship because other people didn't? You also state that the game is a failure as though this is a factual argument. Is a game a failure becuase people don't like it? Does that make Far Cry 2 a failure? Does it make Nier a failure? The concept of "failure" is hugely relative. Is it a failure commercially, failure criticially, failure artistically? It is certainly a criticial failure. Commercially, this remains to be seen, and can only be judged years down the road. But then again, minecraft is a commercial failure, as it has made precisely zero dollars. In general, if you break even, you're not a failure. Artistically? This is the most subjective. A lot of people call Nier an artistic failure. I called it an artistic triumph. I played through NG+ and baww'd my eyes out. It was touching and heartrending for me. The fact that I can feel that and the guy next to me can feel nothing but boredom tells us that this is an artistic dissonance. A lot of people want to recreate their FFXI experiences. Want to feel the same way they did when they played FFXI. A lot of people simply want this to be the best MMO ever anywhere. The failure to recreate FFXI is not an artistic failure. The failure to be perfect is not an artistic failure. It is a failure of the audience's expectations. A lot of people feel vitriol towards FFXIV for not living up to their standards when they've been waiting for so long for it, and this is understandable, but unreasonable. More than anything the feeling on the forums is that FFXIV is a personal insult to SE's fans. It is not, and it is absurd to think it is.


FFXIV is thus far a critical failure, with potential to be a commercial failure. I'd agree with the last section of your post more fully if it wasn't for the fact that S-E had 8 years with one MMO, and then plenty more time in alpha and beta to LISTEN to the fanbase as to what is wrong with the game. It's an insult only in the fact that S-E's unpolished and hurried release of the game blatantly ignored any input by the fans and testers of the game. THAT is why it insults people. Square is well known for making quality products. We have grown accustomed to it. When the beta was out, the fans openly and vociferously objected to the state of the game, and S-E ignored it.


I either have way too much extra time on my free nights, or I'm really drawn to Hawaiin shirts...but I watched that whole darn video;)

I see a warning of things to come for FFXIV when watching that video. Not because of the dev team and the speed at which they fix things that are broken with the game, and not because of SE corporation as a whole, but because of the guy in the Hawaiin shirt.

Somewhere in SE's ranks is a guy just like this. His expertise is publishing. That means he's the guy who markets the game to an audience. In the video, the guy is talking about how the game was never meant to really be an MMORPG, but somehow got misconstrued as such by the media...

Well...who's responsibility is that exactly? The dude in charge of publishing:/

He didn't take one bit of responsibility for effing Real Time Worlds once in that video.

So...Somewhere...there's a Japanese guy in a Hawaiin shirt who's supposed to be letting us know what's going on with FFXIV...aside from the Meager October 8th press release about "you can chat during crafting, and other stuff will be fixed someday"...and he's not doing his job well.

I'm American, and I don't necessarily understand nor appreciate the subtleties of the Japanese language and the marketing of products in Japan.

If SE people really are reading these forums, as they claim they are(according to some other post I perused through), then just tell us flat out...we plan to fix x, y, and z over the course of these next few weeks, in this order of importance...

Then I'd be more inclined to throw 13$ a month at SE. Then I'd know they were making an effort and some tool in an Hawaiin shirt wasn't sipping margueritas on a beach somewhere on my dollar:/

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 12:10am by ButterflyM
#60 Oct 11 2010 at 11:00 PM Rating: Excellent
Why do I still play this game? That's a very good question.

Despite the game's obvious flaws, I have confidence SE will do what is right to mitigate the more frustrating elements of the game. And in the meantime, there's enough low-level stuff to keep me busy until those changes are made.

Setting aside the "potential" of this game, I'm playing because I enjoy Final Fantasy storylines, and I can't wait to see how this one unfolds. That, and it's a beautiful game with stunning music and graphics. New content will obviously be added, and I can't wait to be here when that happens.

In addition to that, many of my old FFXI friends have returned to play this game, and being in a linkshell with them is fantastic.

And, one more thing, I'm very busy out of game, and FFXIV allows me to play for small periods of time and feel like I've accomplished something.
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#61 Oct 12 2010 at 12:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Hmm, let's see...

I enjoy playing this game because of the flexibility in it.
What I mean by that is, one does not have to level a warrior or a mage but can still obtain experience points for physical level with just crafting. It takes all aspects and allows each thing to grow somewhat equally. I like this point.

The equipping of different actions you can get. Such as I used the "Second Wind" technique on my lancer when it started as a Pugilist tech.

The leves are something I also enjoy. Rewards, gil, bonus exp.... it sorta reminds me of FoV in FFXI.

I have to point out I can see everyone's reasons for concern. To be honest, I wasn't expecting this game to come out like a half baked cake :( I had a lot of hope and wanted this game to soar! To be the successor of FFXI!! (Veteran of 6 years playing) I think when it comes down to it, I am indeed one of those hopeful people waiting for drastic improvement.

Speaking as an ex-hardcore player on XI, I will say I find myself often bored with this game so far. I go out kill some, do a few leve, explore but in the end I'm maybe on the game 3hrs and it gets so stale I want to turn it off.

As a personal opinion for a game as a whole, I feel it wasn't ready to be released. I really feel like I'm still in beta just a lil improvement. (I played Alpha, Closed Beta and Open Beta) Looking at it, they took more of a few steps backwards instead of forwards...
I think they should have delayed the release of FFXIV til March 2011 and launched along side of PS3 users and just had more time to beta test. By then they could have possibly narrowed down more of the issues and changed it into something better. I'll give the graphics a 10/10 but other than that... it doesn't speak to me as much as FFXI did. I will say this much though, they have been working around the clock as far as fixing things. They are working at it, but I wonder how far and how long...

If I don't see improvements by the time of PS3 release, I am sad to say I will be packing it up and hitting the road. It's sad to say for me because I was excited about this game from the moment the first thing was released they had plans for making a new MMO.
#62 Oct 12 2010 at 12:56 AM Rating: Default
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This reminds me of group therapy.

My name is Ceiltsei and I am a FFaholic. I don't know why, I think I just like numbers. FFXIV has a lot of big numbers too. Everything can be divided into numbers.. the landscape, the types of crafting, the parts of crafting, the lvl of crafting, the quality and quantity of crafting.. ohmygosh.

Numbers aside, I feel this game will be fantastic once it gets going. In 6 months there may be more than you can chew, shake a stick at, or run into.
#63 Oct 12 2010 at 2:12 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
If you just take the U.S out of the picture, this game will stay alive based on japan's customers alone...:)


I wouldn't be so sure about that. The Japanese player base seems to be just as if not more pessimistic about XIV then other markets.

http://www.amazon.co.jp/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?__mk_ja_JP=%83J%83%5E%83J%83i&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=ffxiv&x=0&y=0

See for your self, both versions have a 1.5 out of 5 star customer rating based on something around 130 reviews on the japanese amazon.com webpage.
#64 Oct 12 2010 at 2:40 AM Rating: Default
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I have read a few of these, and they seem to be mostly on par with the amazon.com reviews. yeah, there may be a little difference here and there, but mostly complaining about first impressions, UI, tutorials, difficulty playing, and lack of content.

Although, it seems that the UI is something SE wishes to focus on. Maybe we can expect a whole new UI eventually? I also have a feeling that they may stretch the fatigue system a bit, maybe add one more day. That would be enough for me.

.. anyhow.. on with the show.

I find this game has incredible opportunities, and I agree with quite a lot of you guys. I am enjoying things, even more than my FFXI session. I also find the new bazaar system to be quite interesting and a nice change. A few tweaks to that, and I will be quite happy with it. The UI however.. it takes a bit to get used to.
#65 Oct 12 2010 at 3:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Hi There

I guess i may aswell add to this.

Im no fanboi i just came here because there is nothing i want to play for the moment,
I will be playing this untill march 2011 ( this is my plan )

As it stands the look nice runs well no problem there (besides the anoying lag from server load which shouldnt be a problem nowdays with only 2.5k players online.
As thing are atm i wont stay a moment longer then i have to just because i feel the game is lacking ALOT.
Not from bugs but just lack of things todo or get , normally in a game you get a few weapons to try out , but here you get a hand full ( so far )

Just seems bland. Dont get me wrong 90% of thing that can be done in game are ok but i wake up in the morning thinking do i really want to grind not knowing if they will make the game appealing or not.

With most games i play i can see through all the bugs and problems if the information is there. example blah blah will be coming soon or blah blah will be fixed.
But as nothing seems to be coming from SE it makes it hard for me to decide what to do.

The layed back no rush play style is fine once you get used to it which gives me more time to relax.

So the round up answer is " There is nothing holding me here besides there is nothing else todo and no information to give me hope "

So ill keep playing untill i wake up and just say no more :D


One other thing we all have AOE skills but yet you get crap exp for grping and doing AOE grind so this is s issue for me as nice aoe grp can be fun.
And i find solo much more exp for the time you put in so even though i play with freinds i would rather solo.

I wouldnt have scored this as 4.0 but its not hotty besides being pretty
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#66 Oct 12 2010 at 8:22 AM Rating: Good
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Again, it's interesting to see the responses being made in a well thought out and non-flame manner. I'm liking this.

I'll posit this to you all, and see where the discussion goes.

S-E has a history of communication problems. They often keep things ambiguous when it comes to future content, patches, bug fixing, and often times the how and why someone is banned or suspended is not disclosed. Many other companies are fairly proactive in disclosing the exciting futures for their games, and will be more forthcoming on why someone gets banned or suspended. Now, given the recent Sage Sundi and Yasu Kurosawa interview from Massively at NYCC, and reports on this forum of people being suspended and even banned for no obvious reason, do you think S-E's approach to communication is detracting to the initial success to the game?

Here's the interview: http://www.massively.com/2010/10/11/nycc-2010-our-interview-with-ffxivs-sage-sundi-and-yasu-kurosa/

And for suspensions/bannings, just browse the forums here and read for yourself.
#67 Oct 12 2010 at 8:48 AM Rating: Good
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Sochie wrote:
Again, it's interesting to see the responses being made in a well thought out and non-flame manner. I'm liking this.

I'll posit this to you all, and see where the discussion goes.

S-E has a history of communication problems. They often keep things ambiguous when it comes to future content, patches, bug fixing, and often times the how and why someone is banned or suspended is not disclosed. Many other companies are fairly proactive in disclosing the exciting futures for their games, and will be more forthcoming on why someone gets banned or suspended. Now, given the recent Sage Sundi and Yasu Kurosawa interview from Massively at NYCC, and reports on this forum of people being suspended and even banned for no obvious reason, do you think S-E's approach to communication is detracting to the initial success to the game?

Here's the interview: http://www.massively.com/2010/10/11/nycc-2010-our-interview-with-ffxivs-sage-sundi-and-yasu-kurosa/

And for suspensions/bannings, just browse the forums here and read for yourself.



Short answer yes.

On principle I don't think we should have to but, I would be ok with the number of design flaws if SE would just stop acting like the NSA and give up some info. I really don't see what is so difficult, and how it's benificial for a company to not just say something like,

"we realize the interface has a bunch of menu promts that really aren't needed, so we will probably streamline that a bit"....Rather than saying stuff like,

"we are currently working on the UI"
#68 Oct 12 2010 at 8:54 AM Rating: Good
42 posts
SelenaUzume wrote:
Speaking as an ex-hardcore player on XI, I will say I find myself often bored with this game so far. I go out kill some, do a few leve, explore but in the end I'm maybe on the game 3hrs and it gets so stale I want to turn it off.

This seems to sum up the FFXIV play experience for a lot of people. In small doses the game can be fun but try playing on your days off and sadly the 'fun factor' just doesn't hold up. I do like that I can pop in and out and still accomplish things, but longer play times I get bored and annoyed with the game - something that's rare with most high-quality ($50~$70 games) I buy.

For me personally the UI issues grate on my nerves in longer play sessions. Also, I hate to say it but I think I've moved toward the 'we need an AH' camp. Regardless of what they do with market wards (which I think are useful in the sense Rol-Mart was in FFXI) they are going to end up functionally getting to AH standards eventually to make shopping a non-tedious chore.

One other common theme I seem to have noticed is that players that spend most of their time crafting do seem to be enjoying the game more. I have noticed this myself as well, as I love combat classes generally but not so much in this game. There's a number of reasons, but gear wear and the repetitive (spam "1" over and over) combat mechanic are a big part of that reason I'd guess. I'd rather focus on strategy than getting my cursor over to my basic attack every few seconds... and I don't even want to think about healing class problems.

So, IMHO if SE can address the issues that make longer sessions feel un-fun and improve the feel of combat classes they will have gone a long way to fixing this title. I'm still on the fence myself with this game. Going to play a little longer & see if improvements do come, but I'll Un-Sub probably next month if SE is long on promises and short on results. I see no point subscribing if the game remains 'fun in small doses' over the next few months or years for me. Honestly I'm hoping that won't be necessary, I want to have as fond memories of this game as I do for FFXI someday.

Btw Sochie, awesome post. Ty for a well thought out discussion on the 'fun factor' in FFXIV - I only happened to stumble onto this thread by accident and was glad I did!
#69 Oct 12 2010 at 9:50 AM Rating: Decent
Sage
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116 posts
Ok... let’s take a look at the only 3 MMO's I’ve ever played (which ironically does not include the game we must not mention):

1) FFXI
2) Age of Conan
3) FFXIV

Like with many others, as a fan of the series, the idea of a Final Fantasy MMO intrigued me. So I picked up a copy of FFXI and was amazed right from the get go. After 5 years of play, I would definitely say FFXI was a fantastic investment making it most probably one of my favourite games of all time (if not my number 1). Despite this, I found this game frustratingly hardcore to beyond ridiculous levels. If I wanted to get anything worthwhile done in one session I’d have to set aside 6-7 hours and even then I’m relying on others to be available also.
So to sum up…

FFXI: Set the MMO benchmark for me and I loved it. Too hardcore though.


So it eventually got to the stage where I couldn’t invest the time required to play FFXI anymore, but I still needed my MMO fix. Say hello to Age of Conan…..
…. Quickly followed by a huge goodbye, to what turned out to be a major disappointment for me. Why? It was far, far too easy and ultimately not Final Fantasy or its community. So I’d gone from one extreme to the other. The First few weeks were great, but before I knew it, I was at endgame with 8 maxed out characters/toons/whateveryoucallthem and had nothing to do. I soon got fed up and called it a day after maybe 3 months.
So to sum up…

Age of Conan: A Nice idea. A bad decision.


After that I pretty much decided just to wait for the eagerly anticipated FFXIV. I missed Beta and just went ahead and ordered my CE copy. Now then, I don’t quite know how to say this, but……
….. I love the game! Sorry guys, but I do.
It is just what I’m after for an MMO:
1) It’s Final Fantasy
2) It’s as Hardcore or as casual as I want it to be
3) There is lots to do to keep me interested
4) I can play for a couple of hours and achieve something
5) I can have fun with the old community again
6) I’m actually enjoying crafting and can’t believe it
7) Even more customisation which I think is great

Having said all that, I do still share the frustrations of those who have mentioned the common issues we are all aware of. I can however, look past them for now and look ahead to game that I’m sure will go from strength to strength.
So to sum up…

FFXIV: I’m happy, others aren’t, and the future is very bright in my eyes.

Thank you OP for finally giving me the opportunity to express my views. Rate Up!
#70 Oct 12 2010 at 3:14 PM Rating: Good
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9,526 posts
I like the job system. I like being able to just switch gears and do something else. Waiting for a party to assemble for guildleves at a crystal? Ok I am going to change to my higher tier job and solo random stuff while I wait - or browse bazaars and do repairs, or craft up a few wands for sale - etc.

I feel like I can easily spend my time well. I like how crafting jobs dovetail into each other etc.

There are some frustrations and annoyances for sure but I see the game getting better slowly but surely - and I don't have a ton of time to play MMOs generally so I am excited to be playing FFXIV from the start because I feel like I will have the opportunity to experience content in a way that I never could hope to with FFXI.

I am not interested in other games, so that helps me be content with FFXIV as it is (for now) - I like the setting of the game, its gorgeous graphics - and the fact it doesn't really have horror/gore elements (like say in Warhammer when I started my squig herder the soundtrack is pretty much explosions and screams non-stop... ew.)

I love the job system. I love being able to level everything on one character. I actually consider the ability to change my job to be a "basic" feature the way some people see an AH as a basic feature. I mean it really is unacceptable in my mind to make people start a whole new character to play with different skills. The fact that FFXI/FFXIV are the only MMOs I know of that offer this flexibility makes me really unwilling to try other games.

Did I mention I love the job system? I like that they took one of the best features of FFXI and made it better.

I honestly don't get the people that say this game is broken. I really enjoy playing it - and I honestly can't help but think that the reviews are way worse than they should be. There ARE issues - but at its core this game is great. It will only get better - and as another poster noted when things are cleaned up a bit and there are some new jobs and people give this game another shot (it will happen) I'll be in a good position.

I wouldn't play the game if I didn't enjoy it. God knows I have better things to do with my time. It is difficult to quantify my enjoyment - I think a lot of it comes down to expectations/attitudes.

I don't mind the lack of an AH for example. I've never really let it bother me. I got a gamepad and the UI made more "sense" to me and was less bothersome. I have a good computer that runs the game beautifully - so I don't have a lot of the hardware related issues that have made some people crazy. I started the game with an LS so leveling has been easier and more fun. I don't give a hoot about quests so their sparseness doesn't really bother me (I haven't finished the R1 nation missions yet... lol)

So I guess it was/is pretty easy for me to enjoy the game.

____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#71 Oct 12 2010 at 3:16 PM Rating: Good
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9,526 posts
M0RZA wrote:

6) I’m actually enjoying crafting and can’t believe it


oh and this.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#72 Oct 12 2010 at 3:47 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
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240 posts
Personally, I don't know what SE has been thinking these past four or so years. They're reminding me of how stubborn Nintendo were pre-N64. They thought they were the only competition and didn't care for the consumers until a series of really bad decisions (Virtual Boy, cartridges in a CD console competition, limited third party support, Stabbing Sony in the back before PS1 came to be...) nearly ruined them. If it weren't for the mass success of Pokemon I'd hate to think what would of happened to the big N.

Square-Enix has been going down this route. Funny enough, Kenji Inafune (Mega Man creator and newly head of Capcom) keeps on about the doom of the Japanese gaming industry because the majority of companies just don't get how to make good games anymore. That is a bit of a stretch even for him, but seeing the reviews of FF13 and FF14 he's really not far off the mark.

Maybe SE is trying to still be the giant innovator? Forcing us to hopefully submit to their latest foray into the Final Fantasy franchise despite it's many flaws? Sometimes, they try too hard and just miss the point entirely. I look at FF13 and wondered why the went in the direction they did. I look at 14 and see what they thought would work but see that despite all that effort there's just not much going for it. How could they NOT see this coming is what bothers me.

Delaying would of helped them, extending beta for a few months would of been beneficial. Giving them more time to work out the bugs and add more content. It's what Nintendo and other successful companies have been doing for years and it's actually done them a world of good.

FFXIV may of failed at launch but it still has potential to be better.

Double Edit:

Even after all this, I'm glad many of you have found a niche in FFXIV. Lots of older fans and players alike have responsibilities and this game offers them that comfort zone where they're not obligated to make it a full time job and actually explore fully customizable chars/classes and try crafting that can actually yield a decent profit. It's a good feeling you can log on and get something done without waiting for others, or have the right job to do anything. It truly is a relief, former XI players seem to understand this.



Edited, Oct 12th 2010 3:48pm by RaideLeonn

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 3:55pm by RaideLeonn
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Raide < Railock / Hume(M) / "Asura" ***Missing Pandemonium***
80 Dragoon / 80 Black Mage / 80 Blue Mage
#73 Oct 12 2010 at 3:55 PM Rating: Excellent
**
451 posts
On a side note, I haven't played WoW in about 6 months, and my bro just called me tellin me the new patch 4.0 was here today. So I figured what the **** I'm not doing anything Ill dust off the old Bliz Launcher.

Let me tell you, what an absolute JOY it was to download a patch. Seriously, it sounds stupid but after dealing with SE BS for the past month. Just a great interface, and an actual link to the OFFICIAL FORUMS, a link right in the DL window to contact online support. Man, what a difference a company makes. I swear I'm not a wow fanboi lol, in fact i kinda hate it. But compaired to how SE handles buisness.....no hay comparación.

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 5:56pm by KristoFurwalken

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 5:56pm by KristoFurwalken
#74 Oct 12 2010 at 5:25 PM Rating: Good
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67 posts
What keeps me playing FFXIV?

Here is what is important to me that keeps me playing: Everytime I step into this game I feel like I am my character living in this beautiful world. The struggles are real and difficult, but the pay off is all the more rewarding. There is a "Life" in my character I rarely get in sync with in other MMOs. Also, the game is beatiful and the simply walking through Gridania is heartwarming like my first trip into the Sanctuary of Zitah.

There are issues with this game, from a software/UI point of view. There is no sort function and the retainer system is very flawed. However, if anyone thinks these issues will be consistent through the release into PS3, than they may be misguided in their views. This game has recieved so much negativity that even the mega gaming company SE can no longer hide behind their products. Their eyes have been forced open, to ignore the issues is to concede to business ruin. Any other game, I would've said that SE would not have been impacted, however, this is too huge and people are yelling too loudly for them not to be panicking right now.

That said, I am the player who is determined to be one of the "original" players, as I was with FFXI at U.S. release. I played that game upto a year ago, from release. I loved watching that game evolve. I will enjoy watching this one evolve as well. I love being able to say, "I remember when...".

I know that there will always be someone out there to say negative things about anything positive that anyone comes up with. Reason is, negativity is far easier to deliver than positive reinforcement. This game is riddled with some "OMG WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?!!!", but after 6 months, I believe everyone will be saying, "OMG, THIS IS AMAZING!!!" But that's just me being positive, I guess.

Also, the cliche' about fanbois is like "I know you are, but what am I" for internet children. Anyone who resorts to cliche's like that loses any respect from me, if that even matters. People like what they like and that's just the hard truth. Loyalty sells, that is the bases for all economic business these days. If a business is willing to sacrifice loyalty for greed or ego, than they deserve to lose loyalty. I, for one, will give more than a month of bad gaming to a company that has given me a lifetime of memorable games and nerd memories, before throwing in the towel. I bought FFXIII and hated it, so I put it down and didn't play it. I don't freak out and make angry posts, I chose to buy it on release and not wait for reviews and that is my bad, not anyone elses. Just like I chose to pick this game up on release and deal with the bugs it will have. The consumer does have some responsibility.

SE has an ego that has been their sheild for so long, now that ego is a dagger in their back, they will snap back because for the first time the world has had enough quiet disclosure, which is why I know that this game will be fixed and will be as amazing as it was intended.

Why do I keep playing? Because I believe in a product more than a month into release and so far, I have never had to put it down because of fatigue, difficulty, or UI. For that reason, the good outweighs the bad. This game is so much fun, despite the issues at hand, if you disagree, then thin out the login queues please! :D

~Skye Ayatari
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#75 Oct 13 2010 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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9,526 posts
This is a great thread. Thanks OP.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#76 Oct 13 2010 at 11:59 AM Rating: Excellent
Sage
***
2,869 posts
SkyeAyatari wrote:
There are issues with this game, from a software/UI point of view. There is no sort function and the retainer system is very flawed. However, if anyone thinks these issues will be consistent through the release into PS3, than they may be misguided in their views. This game has recieved so much negativity that even the mega gaming company SE can no longer hide behind their products. Their eyes have been forced open, to ignore the issues is to concede to business ruin. Any other game, I would've said that SE would not have been impacted, however, this is too huge and people are yelling too loudly for them not to be panicking right now.


Let's hope you're right. S-E has proven very resistant to the community in the past though, and they're showing little sign of changing now.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 2:00pm by Anza
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Anza: Titan 2004-2011 / Capuchin: Phoenix 2011-???
#77 Oct 13 2010 at 12:03 PM Rating: Excellent
5 posts
I have beta tested and launch played countless MMO's over the years. Nearly every game on your list, I played during launch. They all seem to follow a common trend. ****** and bug ridden at start, with a lot of grinding involved, they then progress to more content, less bugs, and better gameplay mechanics, but then follow it up with ****** content, more bugs, less server stability, and LESS CHALLENGE. That is the key. Challenge. I max content in every MMO I have ever played within a couple of months. If you remember playing WoW during 60 cap, it was literally a grindfest until 60, and then hours of waiting for a 40 man raid. It was a boring and ****** game until 60, and then it was a fun game, but it took several hours just to set anything up. DDO had an amazing concept, but it was a ****** grindfest in early stages, repeating the same dungeons over and over and over again. Star Wars Galaxies was the best MMORPG ever made, of all time, ever at launch. But it got worse and worse with each expansion, only to become a complete worthless ******** of a game when they decided to revamp the combat and class system, which is what made the game so unique. With the inception of an Auction House, or some other form of buying and selling, and with the UI lag fixed, FFXIV would be a fantastic game, and I believe that in the near future, we will see those changes.
#78 Oct 13 2010 at 12:05 PM Rating: Good
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9,526 posts
Anza wrote:


Let's hope you're right. S-E has proven very resistant to the community in the past though, and they're showing little sign of changing now.



I dunno - maybe I just missed it but I never remember the devs EVER explaining anything in XI. Compared to XI it seems that the devs for FFXIV are being way more responsive. I know people aren't happy with what we have gotten but I don't think anyone can say they are not being more communicative and responsive than they were with XI.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


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