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Looks like the feedback forums do matterFollow

#1 Oct 11 2010 at 3:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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The more suggestions you post, the more likely it is you'll influence SE's decision making.

The game has been out for about a week, the collector’s edition has been out for about three weeks. So far, how do you think it’s being received by the fans?

Yasu: Lots of good feedback and opinions. Since this is an MMO, all the feedback is very important. We go to just about all the major forums and read comments posted, especially North American sites and European sites as well as Japan. So we just read them and compile all the opinions into a big list and give that feedback into the dev team. People have said great things about the graphics and storyline. They like the ability to change classes on the fly and the armor crafting system a lot. People also mention liking the guildleves system and in general we hear a lot of good opinions on the UI (user interface) and other features. Things like that we compile and take back to the devs.

Sage: Basically, we read everything. People are welcome to post messages and we’ll read it thoroughly. The developers are all Japanese and they cannot read or speak English, so they cannot understand what the players want. Not just English players, but our fans in Germany and all over the world. We have community reps in each region. These reps go to all major forums and compile a report every day.
In running an MMO, we understand it’s very important to listen to our players.

Editor’s note: The US sites that have a premium status with Square Enix are FFXIVCore, Zam, and Eorzeapedia. FinalFantasy14Players will soon be obtaining premium status as well.


http://blog.finalfantasy14players.com/2010/10/10/interview-with-the-online-producers-of-final-fantasy-14-sage-sundi-and-yasu-kurosawa/
#2 Oct 11 2010 at 4:45 PM Rating: Good
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Mykha wrote:
Looks like the feedback forums do matter


Yasu wrote:
in general we hear a lot of good opinions on the UI (user interface) and other features.


O rly?
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#3 Oct 11 2010 at 4:47 PM Rating: Good
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Good Opinions.. not positive reviews.

E.g. Good suggestions.
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#4 Oct 11 2010 at 4:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Reading that interview was painful - From their careful wording it sounds like they have a small band-aid ready to slap on a something that needs surgery
#5 Oct 11 2010 at 5:06 PM Rating: Decent
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That was an overly political response from SE considering the seriousness of their situation. What SE needs to do at this point is cut the BS, apologize, and deliver full disclosure on why this happened and what length they are going to go to fix it. Highlighting positives about the game and say that users are giving "good opinions" about features, when the game is on the brink of failure is laughable. I could appreciate SE if they at least had the integrity to admit they screwed up and the product is far less polished then they had suspected, then describe in serious detail their counter measures and timeframes. Does SE have a PR team?
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#6 Oct 11 2010 at 5:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
we hear a lot of good opinions on the UI (user interface) and other features


Maybe they read the Zam forums through Google Translate? :P
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#7 Oct 11 2010 at 5:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Or perhaps they know what the word opinion means.
#8 Oct 11 2010 at 5:49 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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This isn't really different from FFXI. The problem is that the actual developers care very little about the reports that the NA and EU teams send to them.
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#9 Oct 11 2010 at 5:51 PM Rating: Good
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o.O (faints in surprise that SE reps are actually *talking to gamers*)

It's a good start, more of this please SE! And don't be afraid to go off-script, we need some real support from your end here! Some interesting other tidbits from the article I noticed:

Quote:
We had a lot of people signed up to write daily journals of their adventures here on FinalFantasy14Players, but the minimal specs on the PC version are quite high. You know, most college students have laptops which can’t have their video card upgraded. What was the reasoning for such a high system requirement?

Yasu: We have a PS3 version coming out and the PC version needed to match the PS3 abilities. When we designed this game, we were looking at what the standard PC abilities were in five years. Each year, PCs will have better and better graphics and processing capabilities. Right now the specs seem high but in 2-3 years it shouldn’t be.

Sage: Yes, we were aiming for the PC environment five years later. We plan to support this title for a long time.


I suspected as much when I started Open Beta. It was a good sign of their long term plans, even if I did have to upgrade a couple graphics cards to run the game. Annoying in these early days but understandable, both computers I have run the graphics well enough now.

Quote:
What about airships? We see those around too and while in game I can see a handful of them in the sky at any given time. One of the reasons why this is such a big question is because right now, you have to do a lot of walking to get around from place to place. Also the anima regen is so slow.

Sage: We hear this a lot in our feedback.

Yasu: That is one of the things we hear about in the forums. That’s one of the things that we’ve sent back to the developers.


This is encouraging, though travel isn't a big issue for me. I don't mind walking a lot, tho I *do* mind it if I have to return to town every 2~4 hours (or every day really) to repair equipment.

Quote:
What’s the reasoning behind only 8 regional and 8 local levequests in a 36 hour period?

Yasu: This was a topic of big discussion for us. The levequests is one of the best ways to gain experience. It’s meant as a bonus and not as a way to power through the game.


In other words, don't expect expanded levequest counts. I guess I can see it from their point of view, although it would maybe be nice to see non-leve exp balanced a little better in higher levels. I'm all for grinding if it's entertaining but 20~50xp per mob for levels requiring 50,000 xp or more is a little extreme.

All in all a little light on substance but a good start. Hopefully they will be willing to open up about fixing issues (and follow through with updates) going forward.

oops... added airship sentence from previous question to the follow-up question quoted here

Edited, Oct 11th 2010 7:53pm by Cloud7Raymaker
#10 Oct 11 2010 at 5:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Ha. Wow.

In other news... I looked up the word denial and found SE's logo in the dictionary.
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#11 Oct 11 2010 at 5:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dont forget to use the official suggestions form for ffxiv. https://support.na.square-enix.com/form.php?id=902&la=1&p=3&fo=288 .couldnt hurt.
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#12 Oct 11 2010 at 6:11 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
This isn't really different from FFXI. The problem is that the actual developers care very little about the reports that the NA and EU teams send to them.


And what evidence do you actually have, that the developers care very little about us players?
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#13 Oct 11 2010 at 7:24 PM Rating: Decent
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SnowcapKush wrote:
bsphil wrote:
This isn't really different from FFXI. The problem is that the actual developers care very little about the reports that the NA and EU teams send to them.


And what evidence do you actually have, that the developers care very little about us players?
Do you really need more evidence than this:

Quote:
in general we hear a lot of good opinions on the UI (user interface) and other features. Things like that we compile and take back to the devs.


I needed to go 3 pages into the feedback forums to find one (highly delusional) post saying something positive about the UI.

The problem is that player-base will tolerate these problems only for so long, and each time a player left for good the damage to the game becomes irreversible.

Ken


Edited, Oct 12th 2010 1:26am by kenage
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#14 Oct 11 2010 at 7:28 PM Rating: Decent
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akirussan wrote:
Mykha wrote:
Looks like the feedback forums do matter


Yasu wrote:
in general we hear a lot of good opinions on the UI (user interface) and other features.


O rly?


Yeah, when I read that I thought the same thing.

I call ********
#15 Oct 11 2010 at 7:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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kenage wrote:
SnowcapKush wrote:
bsphil wrote:
This isn't really different from FFXI. The problem is that the actual developers care very little about the reports that the NA and EU teams send to them.


And what evidence do you actually have, that the developers care very little about us players?
Do you really need more evidence than this:

Quote:
in general we hear a lot of good opinions on the UI (user interface) and other features. Things like that we compile and take back to the devs.


I needed to go 3 pages into the feedback forums to find one (highly delusional) post saying something positive about the UI.

The problem is that player-base will tolerate these problems only for so long, and each time a player left for good the damage to the game becomes irreversible.

Ken


Edited, Oct 12th 2010 1:26am by kenage


Read what they're saying. Good opinions, not positive opinions.
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#16 Oct 11 2010 at 7:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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kenage wrote:
SnowcapKush wrote:
bsphil wrote:
This isn't really different from FFXI. The problem is that the actual developers care very little about the reports that the NA and EU teams send to them.


And what evidence do you actually have, that the developers care very little about us players?
Do you really need more evidence than this:

Quote:
in general we hear a lot of good opinions on the UI (user interface) and other features. Things like that we compile and take back to the devs.


I needed to go 3 pages into the feedback forums to find one (highly delusional) post saying something positive about the UI.

The problem is that player-base will tolerate these problems only for so long, and each time a player left for good the damage to the game becomes irreversible.

Ken


Edited, Oct 12th 2010 1:26am by kenage


As JamseX wrote, I'm pretty sure that the use of the term "good opinions" means something like "useful suggestions" in context there. It's a bit muddled because it sounds like they're trying hard to not allude to anything being overtly negative, while still acknowledging the opinions about the UI.

It's kind of a generic political response. For me to trust that they're taking what we say in the Feedback forum under consideration, I'd really need to see a community rep start posting here to acknowledge us. I don't really think that's too much to ask.

Edited, Oct 11th 2010 9:39pm by Eske
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#17 Oct 11 2010 at 7:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Seriously, reading comprehension, it's not very hard...

Opinions are NOT feedback.

Opinion:
I think the UI should be streamlined.

Feedback:
I think the UI sucks!

#18 Oct 11 2010 at 7:57 PM Rating: Good
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Eske, Star Breaker wrote:
As JamseX wrote, I'm pretty sure that the use of the term "good opinions" means something like "useful suggestions" in context there. It's a bit muddled because it sounds like they're trying hard to not allude to anything being overtly negative, while still acknowledging the opinions about the UI.

It's kind of a generic political response. For me to trust that they're taking what we say in the Feedback forum under consideration, I'd really need to see a community rep start posting here to acknowledge us. I don't really think that's too much to ask.

Edited, Oct 11th 2010 9:39pm by Eske
I get what you guys are saying and while initially I thought the said "good opinions" as "positive opinions", still I believe their answer is misleading, I should accept that my English is not the best (not by far) but I'd feel much better if they just give an apology and promise to work hard from now on.

That sort of answer will meet a much better player response than "Trying to cover the sun with one finger"

Ken
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#19 Oct 11 2010 at 8:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Opinions are NOT feedback.


Uh, not necessarily, but very often they are. When you give your opinion to someone else about something they've done, that's feedback.
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#20 Oct 11 2010 at 8:49 PM Rating: Good
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kenage wrote:
Eske, Star Breaker wrote:
As JamseX wrote, I'm pretty sure that the use of the term "good opinions" means something like "useful suggestions" in context there. It's a bit muddled because it sounds like they're trying hard to not allude to anything being overtly negative, while still acknowledging the opinions about the UI.

It's kind of a generic political response. For me to trust that they're taking what we say in the Feedback forum under consideration, I'd really need to see a community rep start posting here to acknowledge us. I don't really think that's too much to ask.

Edited, Oct 11th 2010 9:39pm by Eske
I get what you guys are saying and while initially I thought the said "good opinions" as "positive opinions", still I believe their answer is misleading, I should accept that my English is not the best (not by far) but I'd feel much better if they just give an apology and promise to work hard from now on.

That sort of answer will meet a much better player response than "Trying to cover the sun with one finger"

Ken


Typical response for them. And I am noticing a trend - they like to say "We've sent this on to our developers". Why do they always say this? Developers are there for one thing, to develop, against requirements that were handed to them. Requirements which were written by someone who understands the "vision" of the game. Right now, this game has no vision, as if they were mindlessly having developers just do this and do that, with no real sense as to what they want them to do.

And the comments about not caring about what US, EU or NA people say, I HARDLY doubt our Japanese players are jumping for joy at this game either.
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#21 Oct 11 2010 at 9:01 PM Rating: Decent
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KnocturnalOne wrote:
kenage wrote:
Eske, Star Breaker wrote:
As JamseX wrote, I'm pretty sure that the use of the term "good opinions" means something like "useful suggestions" in context there. It's a bit muddled because it sounds like they're trying hard to not allude to anything being overtly negative, while still acknowledging the opinions about the UI.

It's kind of a generic political response. For me to trust that they're taking what we say in the Feedback forum under consideration, I'd really need to see a community rep start posting here to acknowledge us. I don't really think that's too much to ask.

Edited, Oct 11th 2010 9:39pm by Eske
I get what you guys are saying and while initially I thought the said "good opinions" as "positive opinions", still I believe their answer is misleading, I should accept that my English is not the best (not by far) but I'd feel much better if they just give an apology and promise to work hard from now on.

That sort of answer will meet a much better player response than "Trying to cover the sun with one finger"

Ken


Typical response for them. And I am noticing a trend - they like to say "We've sent this on to our developers". Why do they always say this? Developers are there for one thing, to develop, against requirements that were handed to them. Requirements which were written by someone who understands the "vision" of the game. Right now, this game has no vision, as if they were mindlessly having developers just do this and do that, with no real sense as to what they want them to do.

And the comments about not caring about what US, EU or NA people say, I HARDLY doubt our Japanese players are jumping for joy at this game either.


I think they do have a vision for this game. But I also think that they were scared to not release it now, seeing as though Cataclysm is coming out this year. And than early next year The Old Republic is coming out.
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#22 Oct 11 2010 at 9:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Eh, if they have a vision, they must be far from it.
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#23 Oct 11 2010 at 10:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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This game has tons of vision. They focused so much on the vision that they forgot about, or didn't get to, the little things. The story is looking pretty epic, as a "bonus" Leves are great. Leves suck because we have nothing else to do (no quests) so we treat them like the main focus of the game, they're not intended to be so they don't fit well. The storyline is looking pretty epic, but there's no filler to fill the gaps between epic storyline chapters, again, no quests.

This entire situation reeks of management pushing a product to meet year end. SE had very little come out this year, their numbers wouldn't have looked good. Releasing the game would have boosted those numbers. SE's year end was October 1st, game launch was Sept 30 (which is an odd date for a release).

The developers care, but will not be able to do nearly as much with translated reports as they will with Japanese forums. Translators are not going to be gamers, or developers. Even if they are, context is lost very quickly in translation. A lot of the time people complain about a certain feature, but the actual problem stems from something else. This is easy to catch in your own language, it's not something you can get out of a translation.

The developers are not being told "make this particular button go here". It would take centuries to accomplish anything that way. They are given a problem, or complaint and asked to address it. They are probably working doubles trying to crank out the content/changes they've been hashing out for months, cursing management for releasing their unfinished work over a stupid deadline.

The question isn't "will SE fix the game" it's "can SE fix the game before everyone jumps ship" and it's a tough call, because these are not quick changes. Adding an AH, for example, you need an entirely separate database with cross server (physical server, not game server) links, accounting style integrity checks, and insane optimization to prevent dual purchasing of the same item, database lockups etc. We're talking MONTHS of development for just that one feature. Unless it's already in development, and I don't think it is, it's not coming anytime soon.
#24 Oct 11 2010 at 10:07 PM Rating: Default
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PinkMermaid wrote:
Dont forget to use the official suggestions form for ffxiv. https://support.na.square-enix.com/form.php?id=902&la=1&p=3&fo=288 .couldnt hurt.


+1 Best post I've seen since I joined these boards.

What's with all the elitists? Too many people on these boards have been working in the video game industry on RPGs for 27 years... oh nope, wait, that's Hiromichi Tanaka not the ZAM community... easy to mix them up when everyone is running around acting like they know everything about how video game development should work.
#25 Oct 11 2010 at 10:21 PM Rating: Good
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BRizzl3 wrote:
PinkMermaid wrote:
Dont forget to use the official suggestions form for ffxiv. https://support.na.square-enix.com/form.php?id=902&la=1&p=3&fo=288 .couldnt hurt.


+1 Best post I've seen since I joined these boards.

What's with all the elitists? Too many people on these boards have been working in the video game industry on RPGs for 27 years... oh nope, wait, that's Hiromichi Tanaka not the ZAM community... easy to mix them up when everyone is running around acting like they know everything about how video game development should work.
Despite the fact that you can only read peoples post and their opinions in these boards, most of us do something to do besides writing on ZAM.

Regardless of your line of work today industry is packed with custom software, most white collars work in either development, test or use of custom software tools, and because of it we are quire familiar with the procedure and how these updates are supposed to be developed and more important communicated.

For once I work to maintain and test a software tool, and believe me if our developing company had treated us as SE treat their customers it would have been long since we changed to a different firm.

You may be right that this is not game development, but can we really use that argument? this is a product and we are customers, it's our right to push for a better product, if exercising that right makes us elitists on your eyes so be it.

Ken

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 4:22am by kenage
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#26 Oct 11 2010 at 10:33 PM Rating: Good
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BRizzl3 wrote:
PinkMermaid wrote:
Dont forget to use the official suggestions form for ffxiv. https://support.na.square-enix.com/form.php?id=902&la=1&p=3&fo=288 .couldnt hurt.


+1 Best post I've seen since I joined these boards.

What's with all the elitists? Too many people on these boards have been working in the video game industry on RPGs for 27 years... oh nope, wait, that's Hiromichi Tanaka not the ZAM community... easy to mix them up when everyone is running around acting like they know everything about how video game development should work.


For that particular link, when you submit your feedback, this is the only thing you get back.


"We have received your inquiry regarding Suggestions & Feedback.
Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.

Unfortunately, we do not provide individual responses. Thank you for your understanding."

People really do know how video game development works. If we buy it, then it should work. That is the customer expectation. 27 years of experience counts for nothing if you serve up a chicken sandwich with food poisoning in the food industry. If you serve up a video game that has the functionality of a slot machine, with your bank account being drained, then congrats to square in their forward thinking to get rid of gambling altogether and simply take people's cash.

#27 Oct 11 2010 at 10:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Yodabunny wrote:
This game has tons of vision. They focused so much on the vision that they forgot about, or didn't get to, the little things. The story is looking pretty epic, as a "bonus" Leves are great. Leves suck because we have nothing else to do (no quests) so we treat them like the main focus of the game, they're not intended to be so they don't fit well. The storyline is looking pretty epic, but there's no filler to fill the gaps between epic storyline chapters, again, no quests.

This entire situation reeks of management pushing a product to meet year end. SE had very little come out this year, their numbers wouldn't have looked good. Releasing the game would have boosted those numbers. SE's year end was October 1st, game launch was Sept 30 (which is an odd date for a release).

The developers care, but will not be able to do nearly as much with translated reports as they will with Japanese forums. Translators are not going to be gamers, or developers. Even if they are, context is lost very quickly in translation. A lot of the time people complain about a certain feature, but the actual problem stems from something else. This is easy to catch in your own language, it's not something you can get out of a translation.

The developers are not being told "make this particular button go here". It would take centuries to accomplish anything that way. They are given a problem, or complaint and asked to address it. They are probably working doubles trying to crank out the content/changes they've been hashing out for months, cursing management for releasing their unfinished work over a stupid deadline.

The question isn't "will SE fix the game" it's "can SE fix the game before everyone jumps ship" and it's a tough call, because these are not quick changes. Adding an AH, for example, you need an entirely separate database with cross server (physical server, not game server) links, accounting style integrity checks, and insane optimization to prevent dual purchasing of the same item, database lockups etc. We're talking MONTHS of development for just that one feature. Unless it's already in development, and I don't think it is, it's not coming anytime soon.


This guys speaks the truth in so many ways. +1
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#28 Oct 12 2010 at 8:32 AM Rating: Default
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akirussan wrote:
Mykha wrote:
Looks like the feedback forums do matter


Yasu wrote:
in general we hear a lot of good opinions on the UI (user interface) and other features.


O rly?


LoL well he did say they are non Americans and can hardly read English.
#29 Oct 12 2010 at 8:54 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
People have said great things about the graphics and storyline.


I would agree, except the Copy and Paste thing that has been used on the graphics.

Quote:
They like the ability to change classes on the fly and the armor crafting system a lot


Again, only down thing would be the mini games do get boring after a while and really annoying..

Quote:
general we hear a lot of good opinions on the UI (user interface)


Except its clunkiness and clumsy feeling. I do like the look of it though.

I agree that entire section seems far too political.
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#30 Oct 12 2010 at 9:25 AM Rating: Default
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That was an overly political response from SE considering the seriousness of their situation. What SE needs to do at this point is cut the BS, apologize, and deliver full disclosure on why this happened and what length they are going to go to fix it. Highlighting positives about the game and say that users are giving "good opinions" about features, when the game is on the brink of failure is laughable. I could appreciate SE if they at least had the integrity to admit they screwed up and the product is far less polished then they had suspected, then describe in serious detail their counter measures and timeframes. Does SE have a PR team?


Yes, the seriousness of the situation. You hit the nail on the head right thar. What a lot of people don't realize is that as a direct result of FFXIV's bugs and questionable design decisions, another deep sea oil well has exploded killing dozens of workers (and several deep sea critters) and is now billowing billions of gallons of oil into the ocean every...er...second.

Also, FFXIV is a huge hit with Palestinian Arabs, but those whacky Jews hate it. We can expect more bloody conflict as a result (and all the Jews really wanted was an auction house and they would have been happy too).

And lastly, all of those minimum wage earners here in North America irate at having spent two days wages on the CE have begun to protest. Unfortunately, because they were out protesting instead of going to work, their jobs were given away to illegal immigrants from Mexico and Greece, and the sudden rise in unemployment is going to trigger another recession.

No really, it's a ******* game, guy. Full disclosure? Are you on crack? SE has heard us. Solutions are in the works. In the meantime, try to get a grip.
#31 Oct 12 2010 at 12:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Yodabunny wrote:
This game has tons of vision. They focused so much on the vision that they forgot about, or didn't get to, the little things. The story is looking pretty epic, as a "bonus" Leves are great. Leves suck because we have nothing else to do (no quests) so we treat them like the main focus of the game, they're not intended to be so they don't fit well. The storyline is looking pretty epic, but there's no filler to fill the gaps between epic storyline chapters, again, no quests.

This entire situation reeks of management pushing a product to meet year end. SE had very little come out this year, their numbers wouldn't have looked good. Releasing the game would have boosted those numbers. SE's year end was October 1st, game launch was Sept 30 (which is an odd date for a release).

The developers care, but will not be able to do nearly as much with translated reports as they will with Japanese forums. Translators are not going to be gamers, or developers. Even if they are, context is lost very quickly in translation. A lot of the time people complain about a certain feature, but the actual problem stems from something else. This is easy to catch in your own language, it's not something you can get out of a translation.

The developers are not being told "make this particular button go here". It would take centuries to accomplish anything that way. They are given a problem, or complaint and asked to address it. They are probably working doubles trying to crank out the content/changes they've been hashing out for months, cursing management for releasing their unfinished work over a stupid deadline.

The question isn't "will SE fix the game" it's "can SE fix the game before everyone jumps ship" and it's a tough call, because these are not quick changes. Adding an AH, for example, you need an entirely separate database with cross server (physical server, not game server) links, accounting style integrity checks, and insane optimization to prevent dual purchasing of the same item, database lockups etc. We're talking MONTHS of development for just that one feature. Unless it's already in development, and I don't think it is, it's not coming anytime soon.


Yeah, except they already possess a working MMORPG AH property: the FFXI AH works fine.
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#32 Oct 12 2010 at 1:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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illuminarok wrote:
Yeah, except they already possess a working MMORPG AH property: the FFXI AH works fine.


Yep, programming doesn't work that way. If you don't understand why I'm not going to be able to explain it to you in anything less than a year.
#33 Oct 12 2010 at 1:20 PM Rating: Default
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782 posts
This thread is the epitome of what is wrong with this forum and half of the player base.

Apparently, half the people here can't comprehend above a 5th grade level.
#34 Oct 12 2010 at 1:24 PM Rating: Decent
22 posts
Mykha wrote:
we hear a lot of good opinions on the UI (user interface) and other features. Things like that we compile and take back to the devs.



I lol'd
#35 Oct 12 2010 at 1:27 PM Rating: Default
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782 posts
Quote:
Mykha wrote:
we hear a lot of good opinions on the UI (user interface) and other features. Things like that we compile and take back to the devs.



I lol'd


Thank you for re-enforcing my point, and so quickly I should add!
#36 Oct 12 2010 at 1:40 PM Rating: Decent
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259 posts
Might as well say it again, 'good opinion' is not the same thing as giving praises. It means that people have good suggestions, thoughts, and ideas about the user interface and how to improve it.
#37 Oct 12 2010 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
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592 posts
I'm surprised the interview didn't get cut short. The reporter must have thought Yasu was having a seizure with all the winking he was doing.
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