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The Effects of Dexterity on the BattlefieldFollow

#1 Oct 11 2010 at 10:01 PM Rating: Excellent
During the beta and the first three weeks of live play, I’ve seen many people asking about stats and how they should balance them in order to achieve the maximum balance between accuracy and damage.

Over the weekend I documented 1500 attacks and their consequences in order to help us find a starting point on how these stats directly affect us. The goal is to minimize the guesswork going on, and spread the knowledge of what each stat is doing for you on a detailed level.

This post is still a work in progress, and hopefully over the course of the next several years, I will have the opportunity to document several thousand more actions to grow our understanding of the game mechanics. I welcome any suggestions for new theories to test, new mechanics to investigate, and I especially welcome any help in gathering this information.

Now for information from test number two (finally)!

The controls/stats and variables:
For this second test, I am examining what the effects of Dexterity are on accuracy, as well as critical hit percentage and Skill Points gained instances per action. For this test, I am using a Physical level 23, Rank 14 Archer. I have no active traits. My stats are as follows:
STR :40________________ Fire : 16
VIT :40 ________________ Water : 16
DEX :40* ______________ Lightning : 15
INT :16 ________________ Wind : 99
MND :20 _______________ Earth : 15
PIE :16 ________________ Ice : 13
*In part 2 and part 3 of test one, the dexterity is increased to 60 and then 80 to test the effects on accuracy, critical hit percentage, and Skill Points gained instances per action. No other stats are changed. Each time dexterity is increased all gear is repaired to 75% at NPC repair vendor, which is where it began the testing. In further testing, DEX was lowered to 20. All other variables remain the same as original tests.

My gear is as follows:
Maple Longbow
Warped Arrow
Hempen Beret
Sheepskin Harness
Rope Belt
Hempen Work Gloves +1
Cotton Breeches
Hermes Shoes
Well-worn Undershirt
Well-worn Halftights

The test mobs were the Thistletail Marmot in the North Forest outside of Gridania, specifically the ones located in the large open space near the Coerthas zone. For control purposes, I only used Light Shot ability once engaged.

The Results:

Average level of Thistletail Marmot -
* The 300 shots at 40 DEX had an average target exp of 88.65
* The 300 shots at 60 DEX had an average target exp of 83.60
* The 300 shots at 80 DEX had an average target exp of 77.56
The Thistletail Marmots in this camp give 42, 64, 84, 105, or 116 exp. The whole reason I spent an hour parsing this particular figure by hand is that I figured the rest of the results I am about to post MUST have been influenced by the tests at 40 DEX being on relatively easier Marmots than the tests at 80 DEX. Sadly, the opposite is true, which makes the following results even more frustrating.

Accuracy –
* 20 DEX gave a result of 104 misses and 196 hits, for an accuracy of 65.33%
* 40 DEX gave a result of 108 misses and 192 hits, for an accuracy of 64%
* 60 DEX gave a result of 70 misses and 230 hits, for an accuracy of 76.67%
* 80 DEX gave a result of 85 misses and 215 hits, for an accuracy of 71.67%
Given that in my post on STR, both the 60 STR and 80 STR tests posted about a 70% accuracy, I believe that (at least for Archer at hand to hand distance) the effect of DEX on accuracy is capped at 40 skill or lower for a character of my skill level (14) giving a 70% accuracy rate average. When averaged all together, the 1500 attempts I recorded over the weekend hit for a 70.33% accuracy rate. I am going to test DEX at 20 and 30(found testing at 30 would be redundant and unnecessary) to see if I can find where that cap is for sure, but I’m almost to skill level 15 on Archer, so I’m going to have to get creative. I won’t be able to kill any more mobs, but I will shoot them all 6 times (because the fastest I ever killed anything was in 7 shots, at 80 STR), disengage, and engage again once the Marmot has regenerated all HP. I will use my other lower leveled jobs to try to determine which Marmot on the level that will give me 84 exp (because it is the closest to the average in my other tests) to attempt to maintain consistency.
- When testing DEX at 20, I received results similar to all previous tests as far as accuracy. I post more about the 20 DEX test in the critical hit rate section(skipped analysis on the 20 DEX dmg numbers for now...I need to have some fun/do leves tonight), and nothing will change there either.
I will also be re-evaluating this as Gladiator sometime soon to see if the Archer distance penalty (supposed) is real, and what the difference in accuracy would be on a close range class.

Damage –
* 40 DEX gave a result of 124.16 damage per hit.
* 60 DEX gave a result of 131.35 damage per hit, which was a 5.79% increase over the original test.
* 80 DEX gave a result of 123.62 damage per hit, which was a 0.43% decrease from the original test.
It appears Dexterity does not affect damage either, at least after 40 dexterity skill points. I’ll keep tabs on this while I’m running the accuracy 20 and 30 tests, but I doubt anything new will happen here.

Critical Hit Rate –
* At 20 DEX, 10.71% of successful attacks were critical hits.
* At 40 DEX, 10.94% of successful attacks were critical hits.
* At 60 DEX, 12.17% of successful attacks were critical hits.
* At 80 DEX, 10.23% of successful attacks were critical hits.
It does not appear dexterity has any effect on the critical rate either. At this point in my documentation, I began feeling very upset at my level 80 DEX tests. If they had fallen in line with the awesome level 60 tests…DEX would have actually been relevant, but it seems it is not.

Skill Points Gained per Attack –
* At 40 DEX, 28.65% of successful attacks resulted in SP gain.
* At 60 DEX, 28.26% of successful attack resulted in SP gain.
* At 80 DEX, 26.51% of successful attacks resulted in SP gain.
It does not appear that DEX affected SP gain in any way.

Critical Damage Increase –
* At 40 DEX, non-critical attacks hit for 122.1 damage per hit and critical attacks hit for 140.9 damage per hit, which is a 15.4% increase in damage on critical hits.
* At 60 DEX, non-critical attacks hit for 128.92 damage per hit and critical attacks hit for 148.86 damage per hit, which is a 15.47% increase in damage on critical hits.
* At 80 DEX, non-critical attacks hit for 121.4 damage per hit and critical attacks hit for 143.14 damage per hit, which is a 17.91% increase in damage on critical hits.
It does not appear that DEX affected the critical hit damage bonus, which seems to be fixed at about 15%. If it does have an effect, it is minimal at best.

So, I guess it is true. Here are the facts, and until I can test lower values, DEX is irrelevant for Damage Dealers Archers soloing. I would recommend STR stacking, as DEX seems unimportant at this time (for Archers playing solo). I will be testing defensive physical stats soon, and will look for the effects of VIT, DEX, and STR for damage avoidance and absorption.
After that, I’ll start showing the mages some more love. I promise I’ll get you some good stuff too.

As mentioned before, any constructive criticism is appreciated.

Edit - Corrected final statements.

Edited, Oct 27th 2010 11:53pm by Yabusame
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#2 Oct 11 2010 at 10:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thanks for the info, been looking forward to reading this one.
I suspect positioning vs the mob in distance and direction must make things a headache.

Also wanted to mention to you that you forgot to change STR to DEX in your copy/paste on the skill point and crit sections. ;)


Edited, Oct 11th 2010 9:09pm by AmanoJ
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#3 Oct 11 2010 at 10:11 PM Rating: Excellent
Whoops...thanks...my eyes are bleeding from the 20 pages of hand parses I've been analyzing. Thanks for the catch.
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#4 Oct 11 2010 at 10:40 PM Rating: Good
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Thanks for the hard work, but having done these tests with a ranger and not a normal melee makes me wonder if dex won't really affect accuracy on regular attacks.
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#5 Oct 11 2010 at 10:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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well done yabu. well done.
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#6 Oct 11 2010 at 10:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm interested in running some stat tests on the raw data if you've still got it.
#7 Oct 11 2010 at 10:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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have you compiled evade numbers ? im a bit curious if evade is afected by dex
#8 Oct 11 2010 at 10:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Is it possible that your accuracy is also capped by your weapon? and Dex. can only go so far in making you more accurate?
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#9 Oct 11 2010 at 10:50 PM Rating: Good
sylph19 wrote:
I'm interested in running some stat tests on the raw data if you've still got it.


Um, I do still have it (can't ever throw anything away) but it's all handwritten, since I was unable to locate any parser. I can check something if you want me to, otherwise I'll have to find a friend with a scanner.

goundar wrote:
have you compiled evade numbers ? im a bit curious if evade is afected by dex


My tests on Defense/Evasion will be next, and will start with VIT and DEX.
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#10 Oct 11 2010 at 10:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yabusame wrote:
Um, I do still have it (can't ever throw anything away) but it's all handwritten, since I was unable to locate any parser. I can check something if you want me to, otherwise I'll have to find a friend with a scanner.


Wow, respect yo, old school. Was expecting a spreadsheet. Thanks for the hard work! (I'm too lazy to transcribe it into a spread so don't worry about scanning it.)
#11 Oct 11 2010 at 11:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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goundar wrote:
have you compiled evade numbers ? im a bit curious if evade is afected by dex


This was my first thought when reading the results. Considering they did away with AGI, perhaps that got thrown into DEX?

I honestly don't think the stats do a whole lot. I did very minor personal testing with VIT. I spent a couple hours resetting my stats numerous times to get them very low, then before pouring them into anything I began fighting a decent challenge mob. I let it hit me for about 10 minutes, constantly healing to keep myself alive, and it was hitting me for about 65-80 on average. I then poured enough points into my VIT to go from the teens to 80 VIT, and while my HP skyrocketed to about 840, I took exactly the same amount of damage.

I honestly wish they would rework the stats so that they're more important, which would introduce more customization to the game. More customization equates to more fun. You could have mages built for soloing with a more defensive point build, versus the constant party go-ers who pour into INT/PIE to land heavy nukes with a tank to protect them.

At the moment I use a heavy VIT/MND build regardless of what class I'm playing, and to me that is kind of dull, but sadly it's the most efficient way of leveling. VIT gives me a large HP pool, and MND slightly increases how much I Cure for, increases my MP pool which then in turn increases how much MP I'm returned from Tranquility/Exaltation (CON/THM 10 Minute Cooldown Abilities).
#12 Oct 12 2010 at 1:03 AM Rating: Good
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How infuriating. I can only hope ranged attacks receive an ACC penalty at point-blank; I've been stacking DEX like crazy on PGL and never see any ******* results.
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#13 Oct 12 2010 at 1:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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This is about what I expected you to find regarding DEX. It just doesn't feel like its doing much while the effect of STR is pretty noticable.

Yabusame wrote:
...I believe that (at least for Archer at hand to hand distance) the effect of DEX on accuracy is capped at 40 skill or lower for a character of my skill level (14) giving a 70% accuracy rate average...
I bet that at range your overall accuracy would increase somewhat but I'd expect the same cap to be in effect to achieve that accuracy.

MaverickBG wrote:
Is it possible that your accuracy is also capped by your weapon? and Dex. can only go so far in making you more accurate?
More likely projectile accuracy is almost entirely determined by the ACC ratings on the ammo and weapon. Melee should be different; If not the stat is entirely broken...

Thanks for all the great info Yabusame. Very informative stuff.
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#14 Oct 12 2010 at 1:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thanks heaps for the theory=crafting! I am curious as to what the 'soft cap' for dex actually is though. If it's less than 40 at that level, it would be nice to know so I don't have to waste more points than I have to.
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#15 Oct 12 2010 at 1:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Raptorian wrote:
... I am curious as to what the 'soft cap' for dex actually is though.
My money is on 20 points every 10 levels.
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#16 Oct 12 2010 at 8:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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These are my favorite posts on FFXIV so far. Keep up the great work!

Some thoughts. If you are fighting a marmots, perhaps there is something restrictive to the results that you are not seeing. What I mean is, perhaps if you tested on something a bit tougher (Dodos? Gaglagos?) you would see a difference.

Not that Accuracy would go above 70%, but perhaps for DEX 40 and DEX 60 you would see Accuracy below 70%, something more like 45%, 58%, 70%.

You see what I mean? If the marmot is already capped at the ~70% accuracy cap even at DEX 40, you wont see any difference as you pile on more DEX.

Just a thought. The time you have taken to do this is much appreciated!
#17 Oct 12 2010 at 8:56 AM Rating: Good
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I would rate up if I could ;)

Awesome post.
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#18 Oct 12 2010 at 9:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Somebody buy this man some arrows lol
#19 Oct 12 2010 at 10:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thanks for the hard work.

It's nice to see someone backing up observations of experienced players who say stacking massive amounts of DEX does nothing.

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 1:02pm by ixion13

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 1:02pm by ixion13
#20 Oct 12 2010 at 10:53 AM Rating: Good
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One question I have to bring up, hasn't testing shown that there is a stat cap for each class rank? I believe the test showed that at rank 10 of a class (i believe it was marauder), Vitality stoped giving HP, suggesting it was capped. I bring it up because I believe it may suggest that testing stats at 80, may be over the useful cap for a rank 14 archer. But at the same time, I believe your STR test did show conclusive results, so maybe this is not a factor.
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#21 Oct 12 2010 at 12:01 PM Rating: Decent
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For those unaware:

In FFXI, the Archer class (Ranger) is subject to a unique Ranged System that affects Accuracy and Damage based on your distance from the mob. It has a pretty profound effect. Ranger Accuracy is also (uniquely) handled by the AGI and Ranged Accuracy stats. All other melee are handled by DEX and the Accuracy stat. STR handles both Ranger and other Melee's. While it's probable half of that doesn't apply to XIV (as they streamlined stats), it's still 2 big unknowns that throw these results into serious question--especially since they are so surprising and unexpected.

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 2:06pm by Furia
#22 Oct 12 2010 at 12:03 PM Rating: Good
Tagging for later – thank you for your work on this, Yabusame!! This explains why my 50/50 split of str/dex has left me feeling no better about my miss rate and /crying at my pitiful dmg output. But of course, like others have said, it does seem like melee accuracy as a whole needs some serious help. Here's hoping SE's aware of the problem...

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 2:05pm by hooplah64
#23 Oct 12 2010 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Awesome job.

However, I'm more interested in seeing these results for a Gladiator or another job that doesn't used ranged attacks. I think it's too soon apply these findings to all physical classes.
#24 Oct 12 2010 at 3:51 PM Rating: Good
Furia wrote:
For those unaware:

In FFXI, the Archer class (Ranger) is subject to a unique Ranged System that affects Accuracy and Damage based on your distance from the mob. It has a pretty profound effect. Ranger Accuracy is also (uniquely) handled by the AGI and Ranged Accuracy stats. All other melee are handled by DEX and the Accuracy stat. STR handles both Ranger and other Melee's. While it's probable half of that doesn't apply to XIV (as they streamlined stats), it's still 2 big unknowns that throw these results into serious question--especially since they are so surprising and unexpected.


I don't know what there is to question about these results. All the claims I made are backed up by concrete evidence. More testing will be done to determine other variable's effects, but the results of this test are scientifically sound.

RufuSwho wrote:
These are my favorite posts on FFXIV so far. Keep up the great work!

Some thoughts. If you are fighting a marmots, perhaps there is something restrictive to the results that you are not seeing. What I mean is, perhaps if you tested on something a bit tougher (Dodos? Gaglagos?) you would see a difference.

Not that Accuracy would go above 70%, but perhaps for DEX 40 and DEX 60 you would see Accuracy below 70%, something more like 45%, 58%, 70%.

You see what I mean? If the marmot is already capped at the ~70% accuracy cap even at DEX 40, you wont see any difference as you pile on more DEX.

Just a thought. The time you have taken to do this is much appreciated!


These will definitely be things I study as I get more in-depth.
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#25 Oct 12 2010 at 3:57 PM Rating: Default
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Yabusame wrote:


I don't know what there is to question about these results. All the claims I made are backed up by concrete evidence. More testing will be done to determine other variable's effects, but the results of this test are scientifically sound.



I think what he is questioning is if your distance from the mob is placing a hard cap on how accurate you will be....

Basically that when you're a melee distance shooting arrows, the most accurate you can be is X%... so if you can find the sweet spot- X would be the highest number possible for your character....
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#26 Oct 12 2010 at 4:31 PM Rating: Default
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Hold on guys

Ive been parsing info from level 1 archer to level 16 archer
As well as level 6 lancer to level 14 lancer

My parsing on Dexterity is HUGELY different and im actually using a java parser that reads in game data for me

Please don't unassign all your dex stats according to the topic starter's parsing

Wait a week or so more and i will have truly empirical data on Dexterity AND Strength

Just a hint of what so far i can see, Dexterity is alloted to specific factors and monster chance %
#27 Oct 12 2010 at 4:41 PM Rating: Good
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I've already tried base dexterity and 40 dexterity and I didn't see any difference in hit rate (I'm a rank 22 Lancer). The only reason I'm running with 40 dexterity now is because I thought it would affect my goldsmithing (which I didn't see a difference for either). In any case due to my lancer level not being able to fully use the 80+ str/vit I've got, I've been pushing my other stats around.

By the way good work on the data mining, it's still very interesting to see my suspicion is close to right.

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 6:45pm by mygosity
#28 Oct 12 2010 at 4:43 PM Rating: Good
akill3s wrote:
Hold on guys

Ive been parsing info from level 1 archer to level 16 archer
As well as level 6 lancer to level 14 lancer

My parsing on Dexterity is HUGELY different and im actually using a java parser that reads in game data for me

Please don't unassign all your dex stats according to the topic starter's parsing

Wait a week or so more and i will have truly empirical data on Dexterity AND Strength

Just a hint of what so far i can see, Dexterity is alloted to specific factors and monster chance %



Feel free to produce some concrete, reproducible evidence to the community. We all want to see DEX make improvements to our characters, but it really doesn't seem to based on all testing shown. Not just by testing by me, testing by everyone.

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 6:44pm by Yabusame
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#29 Oct 12 2010 at 4:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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akill3s wrote:
Hold on guys

Ive been parsing info from level 1 archer to level 16 archer
As well as level 6 lancer to level 14 lancer

My parsing on Dexterity is HUGELY different and im actually using a java parser that reads in game data for me

Please don't unassign all your dex stats according to the topic starter's parsing

Wait a week or so more and i will have truly empirical data on Dexterity AND Strength

Just a hint of what so far i can see, Dexterity is alloted to specific factors and monster chance %


You wrote your own parser?
A week or so? Just post the raw data that you already have now.

Highly skeptical, what is your methodology? Are you comparing builds or are you just 1-16 with one build?
#30 Oct 12 2010 at 4:57 PM Rating: Default
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It would seem to me that a much easier way to determine the effects of attributes would be to look at your Attributes and Gear tab. I am an 18 Archer/29 Physical, which means that my phys is quite hight compared to my ability. I had 14 points to allot, so first I checked my Attributes and Geat to see what my Att,Acc, and Eva were, then I allotted all the points to Str. My Att didn't change a whit. ThenI respeced. When all my stats were lowered, my Att, Acc, and Eva still didn't changed. I then re-allotted my points to raise my attributes and still nothing changed.

This leads me to believe that there is an effectiveness cap. In other words, I can award all the attributes I want to my level 18 Archer and it won't make a bit of difference. But (I am guessing) if my Archer were, say, level 30 and my phys remained the same, then the effectivess cap would be higher, making my Att, Acc, and Eva higher.

I am assuming that SE did this so that someone like me who does a lot of crafting and gathering (hence, a lot of phys points) won't end up up with a super-tough low-level character.
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#31 Oct 12 2010 at 5:11 PM Rating: Good
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OP,
Does a "miss" in your data count as: "Your ABILITY misses the TARGET," "The TARGET evades your ABILITY," or both? I don't know how it works mechanically, but it is clear from reactionary abilities that the game makes a distinction.

Phanatic wrote:
t would seem to me that a much easier way to determine the effects of attributes would be to look at your Attributes and Gear tab. I am an 18 Archer/29 Physical, which means that my phys is quite hight compared to my ability. I had 14 points to allot, so first I checked my Attributes and Geat to see what my Att,Acc, and Eva were, then I allotted all the points to Str. My Att didn't change a whit. ThenI respeced. When all my stats were lowered, my Att, Acc, and Eva still didn't changed. I then re-allotted my points to raise my attributes and still nothing changed.

The effects of primary stats are not calculated into the status screen at all. ATK, DEF, ACC and EVA values are always the sum of equipment values, scaling with rank/class when necessary.

The only thing we can measure from point to point is the HP value of VIT.

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 7:17pm by Almalexia
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#32 Oct 12 2010 at 5:14 PM Rating: Excellent
Phanatic wrote:
It would seem to me that a much easier way to determine the effects of attributes would be to look at your Attributes and Gear tab. I am an 18 Archer/29 Physical, which means that my phys is quite hight compared to my ability. I had 14 points to allot, so first I checked my Attributes and Geat to see what my Att,Acc, and Eva were, then I allotted all the points to Str. My Att didn't change a whit. ThenI respeced. When all my stats were lowered, my Att, Acc, and Eva still didn't changed. I then re-allotted my points to raise my attributes and still nothing changed.

This leads me to believe that there is an effectiveness cap. In other words, I can award all the attributes I want to my level 18 Archer and it won't make a bit of difference. But (I am guessing) if my Archer were, say, level 30 and my phys remained the same, then the effectivess cap would be higher, making my Att, Acc, and Eva higher.

I am assuming that SE did this so that someone like me who does a lot of crafting and gathering (hence, a lot of phys points) won't end up up with a super-tough low-level character.


More likely the damage formula involves STR, DEX, ACC and ATK as separate values used to calculate the damage and hit rate, while also factoring in level difference, VIT of target, Evasion of target...and knowing SE moon phase, what Tanaka had for breakfast, and whether or not you have a security token linked to your account.
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#33 Oct 12 2010 at 5:18 PM Rating: Good
Almalexia wrote:
OP,
Does a "miss" in your data count as: "Your ABILITY misses the TARGET," "The TARGET evades your ABILITY," or both? I don't know how it works mechanically, but it is clear from reactionary abilities that the game makes a distinction.


Both are counted as a miss in my tally. I realized this distinction about halfway through testing, but for my purposes...a miss is a miss one way or another. If I don't get burned out on testing things, somewhere down the road this is something I might test, but it's not that high of a priority for me at this time.

Perhaps misses are due to low acc, and "the target evades..." is the hit rate cap coming into play. I'm not sure.
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#34 Oct 12 2010 at 5:28 PM Rating: Decent
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In late beta, it was determined that DEX was broken. It appears it remained broken for release. It's astounding how unfinished this game is. I would not be suprised in the least if others were as well. It heralds back to age of conan, which was visually (even more than FFXIV) stunning, but was entirely broken mechanically. I have no symphathy for SE; it's not like SE didn't have the experience and the resources to finish their ******* game, or at least delay the release until it was finished. I'm ****** at them for taking my 50 bucks and handing me 50 hours of wasted time before I got over my denial and exhastively concluded that their game was ****.
#35 Oct 12 2010 at 5:29 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Perhaps misses are due to low acc, and "the target evades..." is the hit rate cap coming into play. I'm not sure.

Evasion must be more practical than a simple indication of a hit rate cap otherwise PGL wouldn't make sense.
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#36 Oct 12 2010 at 5:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Just gonna throw this out here:

FFXI had a 95% maximum accuracy cap and a 20% minimum accuracy cap.

FFXIV seem to have a roll for evasion following the roll for accuracy, instead of a combined roll, which is why a -accuracy debuff on the enemy (concussion blow) doesn't net more evades (evasion roll) for pugilists, and that instead you use light strike and featherfoot (+evasion)

If the evasion is similarly capped at minimum 20%, you'd get, out of 100 attacks, 95 hits but 19 evades for a total of 76 connects.

This is dangerously close to your accuracy figures at 60 (76%) and 80 dex (71%). You might have been accuracy capped at both.

Until we understand the formulas better, I'd be wary of the whole evade vs miss deal.

Edit 1:
Basically what I'm saying is: Check the effect of lowering your DEX below 40 instead of increasing beyond 60.

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 8:16pm by Docent42
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#37 Oct 12 2010 at 6:26 PM Rating: Excellent
I'll post the 20 numbers in about an hour, but there is no difference so far on accuracy after 150 actions. Doing 150 more actions and will be posting.
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#38 Oct 12 2010 at 7:28 PM Rating: Excellent
Nothing changes about accuracy in the 20 DEX test. I didn't calculate the damage percentages, because it's time for me to have a little me time crafting right now. I will probably do it later.
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#39 Oct 12 2010 at 11:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Yabusame wrote:
Nothing changes about accuracy in the 20 DEX test. I didn't calculate the damage percentages, because it's time for me to have a little me time crafting right now. I will probably do it later.


Your numbers are most definitely not applicable to GLA. I took my Dex from ~40 to ~35 with no major diff, then down to 26. When I took it down to 26, I began missing so much that the Leve I was doing easy yesterday gave me fits and almost killed me a few times (I got the same Leve 2 days in a row).
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You pass a cop and wonder if it 'Agroed' you.
Another car passes you, you attempt to /follow it.
You use your "push to talk" key while talking on the phone.
Text-based games You put a /s before every message you type in an IM (or equivalent / command)
(I have done all)
#40 Oct 12 2010 at 11:47 PM Rating: Decent
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696 posts
kocosephia wrote:
In late beta, it was determined that DEX was broken. It appears it remained broken for release. It's astounding how unfinished this game is. I would not be suprised in the least if others were as well. It heralds back to age of conan, which was visually (even more than FFXIV) stunning, but was entirely broken mechanically. I have no symphathy for SE; it's not like SE didn't have the experience and the resources to finish their @#%^ing game, or at least delay the release until it was finished. I'm ****** at them for taking my 50 bucks and handing me 50 hours of wasted time before I got over my denial and exhastively concluded that their game was sh*t.


Did you really take a data thread and nerd rage it around in your brain until you felt you should complain about the game in it? Get out.
#41 Oct 13 2010 at 12:28 AM Rating: Good
1 post
Have you considered that the low quality of the Arrows could have limited/affected the results? My guess would be that there is some sort of scale related to Suggested Level for weapons and their governing trait.

What if:

There was a certain level associated with the quantity of skill points in a trait. For example, at 60 dexterity, there is an expected level of 10. If, at level 10, there are three level markers for arrows (Say, for example, Suggested Levels 1, 3 and 7), and the next one is at 12, at 60 dexterity (aka level 10 item equivalence), you have 3 options for weapons. Each provides damage as a percentage of its trait (dexterity), in equal tiers, ie. level 1 arrows provide 33% of dexterity, level 3 arrows provide 66% of dexterity, and level 7 provides 100% of dexterity). Total dexterity bonus would be 20 using the lowest grade arrows.

Lets say you have 80 dexterity now, which has an expected level of 14. Using the same example, you would now qualify for four arrow tieres (levels 1, 3, 7, and 12). Level 1 would now provide 25%, level 2 - 50%, etc.) So those same arrows would provide a 20 bonus, here, too.

This is all guesswork, however, making general tier level assumptions, and also assuming that tier creation would be linear in pattern.

Just a hypothesis. Test your weapons.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 2:29am by SytesCaeto
#42 Oct 13 2010 at 1:44 AM Rating: Good
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364 posts
Yabusame wrote:
I don't know what there is to question about these results. All the claims I made are backed up by concrete evidence. More testing will be done to determine other variable's effects, but the results of this test are scientifically sound.

MaverickBG wrote:

I think what he is questioning is if your distance from the mob is placing a hard cap on how accurate you will be....

Basically that when you're a melee distance shooting arrows, the most accurate you can be is X%... so if you can find the sweet spot- X would be the highest number possible for your character....


Precisely as Maverick said, and also pointing out SE has a history of treating ranged attackers with a different set of rules. Though I admit it's very unlikely there is an invisible Ranged Accuracy stat that could (conceivably) be modified by either no attribute or some oddball attribute, it would not be entirely without precedent given what we know about FFXI. These were the 2 nagging questions I was referring to. Good news is I got Defaulted for pointing it out, so no harm no foul I guess.


Edited, Oct 13th 2010 3:45am by Furia
#43 Oct 13 2010 at 3:14 AM Rating: Decent
7 posts
When I shifted stats from STR to DEX i noticed an improvement on damage taken. Anyone else?
#44 Oct 13 2010 at 5:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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52 posts
In light of recent testing, does anybody know what the delay to reassign attribute points is?
#45 Oct 13 2010 at 7:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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203 posts
RustyMcDaggers wrote:
In light of recent testing, does anybody know what the delay to reassign attribute points is?


30 or 45 minutes, not sure which but kI think it was 30.
#46 Oct 13 2010 at 8:03 AM Rating: Good
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24 posts
Ilmoran wrote:
RustyMcDaggers wrote:
In light of recent testing, does anybody know what the delay to reassign attribute points is?


30 or 45 minutes, not sure which but kI think it was 30.


~ I just spent the better part of 2 afternoons doing a complete respec from my 20 CON to Lancer. Its definitely closer to 45 minutes per reassign. It took so long I often forgot about it, so it could very well even be as much as an hour. I nailed the timer pretty accurately at 30+ though and still couldnt do it, so I know its atleast 45+ minutes.
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#47 Oct 13 2010 at 8:07 AM Rating: Good
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1,104 posts
Phanatic wrote:
I.. believe that there is an effectiveness cap. In other words, I can award all the attributes I want to my level 18 Archer and it won't make a bit of difference. But (I am guessing) if my Archer were, say, level 30 and my phys remained the same, then the effectivess cap would be higher, making my Att, Acc, and Eva higher... I am assuming that SE did this so that someone like me who does a lot of crafting and gathering (hence, a lot of phys points) won't end up up with a super-tough low-level character.
More likely, the attribute screen is just broken. Those numbers almost never EVER change.

Not trying to be sarcastic but it seems more probable that we're just seeing another incomplete part of the game than anything else.


Edited, Oct 13th 2010 2:07pm by Timorith
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Melaahna Valiera
#48 Oct 13 2010 at 8:46 AM Rating: Decent
guys isnt it obvious, ranged attacks are governed by int for damage and piety for accuracy..............



also before anyone flames me, this is a joke. if you dont like it move on.
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Darrt
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Leviathan Server
#49 Oct 13 2010 at 9:38 AM Rating: Excellent
To everyone,

I understand that better gear with more acc and atk will give me better accuracy and better damage. I understand that Archer should receive some sort of bonus for attacking at range or from behind. I understand that it's possible results will be different on Gladiator or another melee class. I will be testing them in the future. Right now I am simply testing the effects of DEX on offense, and DEX alone, which seems to be non-existent.

Also, to all of the posters who keep making claims about the base stats: PROVIDE US WITH THE EVIDENCE OF YOUR TESTS! I am not saying that to be condescending or belittle your claims. If your claims and research can be reproduced by the rest of the community, it is a huge asset to us all. The eyeball test is what we are trying to avoid, so please back up your statements with data, and preferably make it a large enough sample size to minimize margin for error. I had streaks of 10+ hits in a row several times, and streaks of 5+ misses in a row several times as well in ALL of my STR and DEX tests so far, but I did enough testing for the data to balance itself out to a reasonable degree.

I appreciate all the interest you all have shown in my research. I am on Selbina server, and have started looking for help with my research on defensive stats (VIT, MND, and DEX at least) in a few days. My full name in game is Ronin Yabusame, and if you want to help me out with those tests in game, send me a PM here on ZAM or send me a /tell in game.
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#50 Oct 13 2010 at 9:39 AM Rating: Decent
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22 posts
Quote:
In late beta, it was determined that DEX was broken. It appears it remained broken for release.


Dex stat
Guardian choice
Sun/Moon Date
Etc...

There are many things you see on your character page that are not linked to any in-game mechanics yet. They are at best a placeholder for future stuff. Once you learn that some game elements are just a placeholder, you then start to suspect all of them are... it is kind of depressing.

Melee accuracy seems to be 99% based on your level with respect to your opponent. Maybe +acc rings help so I run with 4 of them, but in the back of my mind I am thinking "is this just a placebo as well?"
#51 Oct 13 2010 at 11:01 AM Rating: Good
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62 posts
Awesome thread and great data. I saw a similar thread done testing the effects of strength and I must say, I am going to basically ignore dex and dump my points into strength thanks to the data. Very excited to see if dex has any effect on evasion and equally excited to see some data on vitality. Keep up the good work!

What I think is kind of sad though is this type of information should be available to us. SE should outline exactly what impact the stats have. I mean they could tell us by what margin a single point of strength increases damage, things like that. It's silly that players have to go through this much effort just to figure out what effect their stats have. Much appreciated though.
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