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Help!? account suspended same day i bought the game!Follow

#52 Oct 12 2010 at 12:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Class Action lawsuit gogogo!! I think we have the numbers >.>
#53 Oct 12 2010 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
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OneFatAngel wrote:
Did one of you play as a mage and just spam heal to get extra SP?


Umm my wife was a conjurer as she always likes to play a healing class, i was a lancer, im not even sure she GOT the healing spell yet, so im not sure that is what they meant!? Either way we are both very confused and angry, she is not the type of person to cheat or exploit in any game.

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 2:03pm by nirvycn
#54 Oct 12 2010 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
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Everyone saying that "oh it's in the EULA that they can ban you at any time for any reason and they don't have to tell you why, so you're screwed" are crazy. Just because it's in the EULA DOESN'T make it legal. They could put in there "after 30 days of playtime, SE owns your house outright" and that wouldn't stand up in a court. They could put in there "we reserve the right to kill your pets at any time for any reason" and it wouldn't be legal, even if you signed it.

Banning a paying customer for no reason without providing proof of any wrongdoing on the customer's end is not going to stand in small claims court without reimbursement to the customer. Just like a private business can kick someone out for any reason, they can't sell them something, kick them out, and then take that thing back without giving them the money back.
#55 Oct 12 2010 at 12:02 PM Rating: Decent
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This thread needs to be stickied as a warning to all current and prospective players.
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#56 Oct 12 2010 at 12:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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nirvycn wrote:
Well my wife finally got someone to tell her what happened. It seems as we duo'd our first few guild leves she was doing somerthing that was consideredn and exploit - they wouldnt say what it was, and my account too has now been terminated permenantly.

Both my wife and myself have cancelled the transaction on our cards, cancelled the Click and Buy account,and as an aside we have shut our FFXI accounts after 4 years playing it together. The bank have already stopped/reversed the transaction for the game thank god.

Their customer service was appalling and as soon as they realised we had been banned for whatever the **** this exploit was they cut us off and told us they cannot provide support to a banned account. Ten minutes later my own account was Terminated too.

Thanks all for your help, we still really dont know what happened other than they think we were cheaking on the tutorial leve thingy we were doing.

This is the last SE product we are buying.

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 1:45pm by nirvycn

Oops, guess this answers your question (your post came up while I was typing :P )

I wondered how strict they'd be with the ban over this. I expected they'd target players who abused the exploit - people in their teens+ in terms of job level. I'm not sure its fair to ban new players that probably had no clue they were getting extra XP, tho honestly I hadn't played that job so I'm not sure how obvious the exploit appears to an inexperienced player.
#57 Oct 12 2010 at 12:07 PM Rating: Good
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nirvycn wrote:
OneFatAngel wrote:
Did one of you play as a mage and just spam heal to get extra SP?


Umm my wife was a conjurer as she always likes to play a healing class, i was a lancer, im not even sure she GOT the healing spell yet, so im not sure that is what they meant!? Either way we are both very confused and angry, she is not the type of person to cheat or exploit in any game.

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 2:03pm by nirvycn


Cure is a lvl 4 spell. But according to SE, that bug had been fix. Unless you unknowingly stumbled upon something else they are looking into atm. Even if you did, I think it is overly harsh to just band outright. Had you noticed anything strange or you gained lots of gil, sp, xp, with relatively little work?
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#58 Oct 12 2010 at 12:09 PM Rating: Good
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Cloud7Raymaker wrote:
nirvycn wrote:
Well my wife finally got someone to tell her what happened. It seems as we duo'd our first few guild leves she was doing somerthing that was consideredn and exploit - they wouldnt say what it was, and my account too has now been terminated permenantly.

Both my wife and myself have cancelled the transaction on our cards, cancelled the Click and Buy account,and as an aside we have shut our FFXI accounts after 4 years playing it together. The bank have already stopped/reversed the transaction for the game thank god.

Their customer service was appalling and as soon as they realised we had been banned for whatever the **** this exploit was they cut us off and told us they cannot provide support to a banned account. Ten minutes later my own account was Terminated too.

Thanks all for your help, we still really dont know what happened other than they think we were cheaking on the tutorial leve thingy we were doing.

This is the last SE product we are buying.

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 1:45pm by nirvycn

Oops, guess this answers your question (your post came up while I was typing :P )

I wondered how strict they'd be with the ban over this. I expected they'd target players who abused the exploit - people in their teens+ in terms of job level. I'm not sure its fair to ban new players that probably had no clue they were getting extra XP, tho honestly I hadn't played that job so I'm not sure how obvious the exploit appears to an inexperienced player.


What exploit are you talking about? The conjurer cure spam one? Because that's clearly not what happened here if they only played for one night. He even said his wife didn't get the cure spell yet.
#59 Oct 12 2010 at 12:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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kahilm wrote:
Cloud7Raymaker wrote:
nirvycn wrote:
Well my wife finally got someone to tell her what happened. It seems as we duo'd our first few guild leves she was doing somerthing that was consideredn and exploit - they wouldnt say what it was, and my account too has now been terminated permenantly.

Both my wife and myself have cancelled the transaction on our cards, cancelled the Click and Buy account,and as an aside we have shut our FFXI accounts after 4 years playing it together. The bank have already stopped/reversed the transaction for the game thank god.

Their customer service was appalling and as soon as they realised we had been banned for whatever the **** this exploit was they cut us off and told us they cannot provide support to a banned account. Ten minutes later my own account was Terminated too.

Thanks all for your help, we still really dont know what happened other than they think we were cheaking on the tutorial leve thingy we were doing.

This is the last SE product we are buying.

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 1:45pm by nirvycn

Oops, guess this answers your question (your post came up while I was typing :P )

I wondered how strict they'd be with the ban over this. I expected they'd target players who abused the exploit - people in their teens+ in terms of job level. I'm not sure its fair to ban new players that probably had no clue they were getting extra XP, tho honestly I hadn't played that job so I'm not sure how obvious the exploit appears to an inexperienced player.


What exploit are you talking about? The conjurer cure spam one? Because that's clearly not what happened here if they only played for one night. He even said his wife didn't get the cure spell yet.

I agree something sounds fishy. Yes I was referring to the cure exploit (which I too thought was fixed??) but if SE is using that as the reason for the bans something is going on on their end. Bad ban program maybe? It's also a bit frightening if the situations are accurate as described - imagine getting your high level character banned with no explanation and no way to work things out with SE in the case of a possibly faulty ban.
#60 Oct 12 2010 at 12:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Vorkosigan wrote:
This thread needs to be stickied as a warning to all current and prospective players.


Seconded.
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#61 Oct 12 2010 at 12:27 PM Rating: Decent
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kahilm wrote:
Everyone saying that "oh it's in the EULA that they can ban you at any time for any reason and they don't have to tell you why, so you're screwed" are crazy. Just because it's in the EULA DOESN'T make it legal. They could put in there "after 30 days of playtime, SE owns your house outright" and that wouldn't stand up in a court. They could put in there "we reserve the right to kill your pets at any time for any reason" and it wouldn't be legal, even if you signed it.

Banning a paying customer for no reason without providing proof of any wrongdoing on the customer's end is not going to stand in small claims court without reimbursement to the customer. Just like a private business can kick someone out for any reason, they can't sell them something, kick them out, and then take that thing back without giving them the money back.


There are certain laws that govern contracts that would prevent such terms. (Laws governing contracts of adhesion, contracts where the one issuing the agreement has more legal recourses than the one signing, and unconscionability, essentially contracts of slavery.)

However, so long as you can read the contract on screen and you can click an "I agree" button or check-box, if you do, then it is hard to argue that the terms do not apply in your case.
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#62 Oct 12 2010 at 12:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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wow, guess I am done playing as conjurer... And to think, I am a stone's throw away from 20, and cure 2... Maybe I will go back to it in a month or so, as soon as SE is done playing with the ban stick.

Definitely not good for business on their end, I don't think I will buy another SE game. However, I will either get my money's worth from this one or get banned trying...
#63 Oct 12 2010 at 12:41 PM Rating: Excellent
I think the multitude of theories about payment method or inadvertently triggering some sort of RMT detection bot or other silly, but not impossible scenarios, speaks volumes about S-E's attitude and reputation when it comes to customer service. Simply put, S-E has no idea what customer service is. Isn't it pretty much unthinkable that you can pay 100+ dollars for a service, have service suspended the same day, and literally never be told what it is that you did wrong?

However, I am a little bit confused that your service was supposedly suspended on 11/09/10, since that implies some sort of space-time anomaly. Have you tried to actually log in and attempt to play?
#64 Oct 12 2010 at 1:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Banned from the future? Pics or gtfo! I chide. I feel for you. It's great to see Square Enix is still using faulty ban bots and shoddy customer service. Not like the games losing enough players yet. Good luck in the future and I hope you find the MMO for you and your wife.
#65 Oct 12 2010 at 1:07 PM Rating: Good
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If people are getting banned for "exploit" SE really need to broadcast what that Exploit is to everyone. Some players might honestly not know it is an exploit and just believe it is the way the game suppose to work. It is awfully unfair to ban those who simply did not know.
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#66 Oct 12 2010 at 1:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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The exploit that they won't mention has to do with casting buffs on your character over and over, intentionally not fighting the mobs during a levequest in order to gain lots of skill points.

It's stupid that they are issuing bans instead of warnings or 48 hour suspensions, especially seeing as how their detection algorithms aren't exactly fool-proof. (Assuming everyone posting these BAN threads really didn't intentionally exploit the system)

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 3:21pm by OnyxFFXI

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 3:22pm by OnyxFFXI
#67 Oct 12 2010 at 1:31 PM Rating: Good
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I did 1 set of leves as a THM, and maybe buffed myself once or twice the entire time..
#68 Oct 12 2010 at 1:43 PM Rating: Excellent
OnyxFFXI wrote:
The exploit that they won't mention has to do with casting buffs on your character over and over, intentionally not fighting the mobs during a levequest in order to gain lots of skill points.

It's stupid that they are issuing bans instead of warnings or 48 hour suspensions, especially seeing as how their detection algorithms aren't exactly fool-proof. (Assuming everyone posting these BAN threads really didn't intentionally exploit the system)

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 3:21pm by OnyxFFXI

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 3:22pm by OnyxFFXI


An even better solution would be for S-E to get a grasp on basic game design, and not create an XP system that rewards you for activity rather than accomplishment. If you make it so that people get more XP from standing around casting buffs on themselves than they do from actually defeating mobs, then you have no right to blame them for doing that. It's not a software bug, it's a design mistake.

I think I am done trying to follow news and discussion about this game, because I just get angrier at S-E for their inability to be accountable for their own stupidity.

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 3:44pm by KarlHungis
#69 Oct 12 2010 at 1:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Seriously WTF, First of all how would anyone even know that spamming heals on yourself is an exploit, without having been warned.

Second, in FFXI thats how you leveled magic, and summoning, you spammed it on yourself. So coming into FFXIV it would be logical that if you cast a spell on yourself, and skill up you would assume thats the intended mechanic and continue.

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 3:51pm by KristoFurwalken
#70 Oct 12 2010 at 1:54 PM Rating: Good
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KarlHungis Delivers on Time wrote:


An even better solution would be for S-E to get a grasp on basic game design, and not create an XP system that rewards you for activity rather than accomplishment. If you make it so that people get more XP from standing around casting buffs on themselves than they do from actually defeating mobs, then you have no right to blame them for doing that. It's not a software bug, it's a design mistake.

I think I am done trying to follow news and discussion about this game, because I just get angrier at S-E for their inability to be accountable for their own stupidity.

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 3:44pm by KarlHungis


I'm all for rewarding fix amount of SP(formulate base on mob lvl vs rank/physical lvl) than random SP reward of the current system. At less this will give an incentive to kill the mob fast. Otherwise, it is like a never ending skill-up grind of FF11. How many of you had more fun doing skill-up pt as oppose to xp pt? I sure didn't.
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#71 Oct 12 2010 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
Seriously WTF, First of all how would anyone even know that spamming heals on yourself is an exploit, without having been warned.

Second, in FFXI thats how you leveled magic, and summoning, you spammed it on yourself. So coming into FFXIV it would be logical that if you cast a spell on yourself, and skill up you would assume thats the intended mechanic and continue.

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 3:51pm by KristoFurwalken



This is what I was thinking too.
#72 Oct 12 2010 at 2:04 PM Rating: Good
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Small claims court is not the place for this.

You credit card company will refund your money regardless of the TOS. Besides, you are not paying SE, you are paying Click and Buy, so that is moot.

If you call the credit card company they will credit your account and that will be the end of it. Click and Buy would have to take it up with your CC provider, but they won't. They will simply end your service.

Trying to get the account unbanned will not work. If your wife still wants to play, which sounds doubtful, then you can make a new account.

Do you have a separate credit card? You may want to go the Paypal > Crysta payment route to get her a new account.

It's a shame you have to deal with this. What I am saying here is from experience though. First get your money back through your CC provider. If you still want to play, setup new a new account.
#73dennis20014, Posted: Oct 12 2010 at 2:06 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) That ****t's *** man I'm so sorry for your troubles you had, but great turn around time on getting it solved.
#74 Oct 12 2010 at 2:10 PM Rating: Decent
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RufuSwho wrote:
If you still want to play, setup new a new account.


Unfortunately, he would have to buy the game again if he wanted to make a new account. The CD-key cannot be used again.

I really hope SE takes a look at their stance on this issue. I still wonder why they banned in this case, instead of a suspension. Their post on this issue stated suspensions would be issued, not bans:

Quote:
We have confirmed an issue where players may obtain large amount of skill points by casting enhancing or healing magic to the party member. The issue is currently being addressed.

Also we would like to remind that repeating this method intentionally is considered as fraudulent behavior. With players who have abused this method, an additional investigation shall be made and their account may receive penalty including account suspension in case we determine it to be malignant. The investigation is expected to take a while until the completion. For those of you who have happened to abuse this method without knowing it to be fraudulent, please report yourself through GM Call. By reporting yourself in, the amount of skill point and skill rank you have gained will be corrected by GM and the penalty to your account will be exempted.

For details on account penalty and prohibited activities, please refer to the following pages.
Account Penalty Policy
http://support.na.square-enix.com/faqarticle.php?id=902&la=1&kid=56910
Prohibited Activities in Final Fantasy XIV
http://support.na.square-enix.com/faqarticle.php?id=902&la=1&kid=56909

We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/news/detail?newsId=769ec8e213b1a0cf3cae79c9e25a020eed84861b

Gotta love the last line.


And what about this character who was mentioned in this article article about this exploit:

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/rc/character/status?cicuid=1124548

They still appear to be active, and still exploiting.

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 4:15pm by OnyxFFXI
#75 Oct 12 2010 at 2:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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First off, if you listen to these idiots telling you to report it to your C.C. company as fraud, you'll be the one in trouble, not SE. You purchased the game, installed it, and played it. There is nothing fraudulent about that. The company you purchased the games from did nothing wrong, the problem is with SE. You payed for software and a registration code and that's what you got. Again, that's not fraud. A false fraud claim IS fraud.

Contact your C.C. company and see if they have some type of buyer protection program. You might have some recourse there, but since the company you purchased the games from aren't the ones that banned your account, this might be a stretch.

What I would suggest is you contact the BBB and see what your options are from there. Small claims court might be another option, but for such a small amount you'll likely lose more in the long run, even if you win.

As much as is sucks, you're probably going to end up eating the cost and taking it as a lesson learned. If I were in your shoes, I can guarantee that would be the last SE product I ever touched.

I know it sucks, but aside from tarnishing the games reputation (which SE has done a **** good job of already) you don't have many options.

As far as what actually caused the accounts to be suspended/banned, I wouldn't sweat it. If you were nailed within 24 hours of creating the account, the banning process is automated. There is no way a claims team could go through all of the logs and nab you and your wife within 24 hours.

Edit: Apparently I missed the post where you got it sorted out with the bank, good for you. Although it makes the majority of my post moot. I'll just reiterate the sentiment about chalking it up to a lesson learned.

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 10:32am by Raolan
#76 Oct 12 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Decent
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There are three parties - the people who sold it to you, the people who take account payments, and SE.

As for the retailers, they don't want trouble. You tell them this product is broken, you can't use it, and they'll talk to you. You could get a refund if you make enough noise. You could get them to take it off the shelves. This will happen - I'm sure retailers aren't buying any more copies from SE. A broken product is a PR disaster for a retailer that claims to offer quality (Best Buy, for example, as opposed to a fly-by-night on-line retailer).

If you bought Crysta you can't use, talk to Paypal. Complain a lot. You might get some of that back as credits.

As for SE? They're not gonna talk to you.

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#77 Oct 12 2010 at 2:54 PM Rating: Decent
RyderDecree wrote:
Wait? Wasn't that exploit fixed like a week ago? And your saying you got banned yesterday as well as starting yesterday. Somethings a foot


The exploit should have been fixed, yes. Or at least it had better have been fixed... A few days ago I joined up a friend for a Guildleve. We put the setting a little too high but she insisted she wanted to keep trying so we went at it. I kept Cure spamming and throwing in Sacrifice while she fought the targets and finally managed to take one down where the other killed us both eventually. In the end we just gave up and cancelled the Leve. Anyhow I had to do nothing but stand there and cast healing spells repeatedly to keep us both alive as long as we did. I got no skill-ups from it, and so far no suspension messages from SE. However if it's true they are doing random bannings and suspensions everywhere then SE had better prepare themselves for a lot of lawsuits...
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#78 Oct 12 2010 at 3:06 PM Rating: Decent
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OnyxFFXI wrote:
[quote=RufuSwho]
And what about this character who was mentioned in this article article about this exploit:

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/rc/character/status?cicuid=1124548

They still appear to be active, and still exploiting.

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 4:15pm by OnyxFFXI


From my experience, anyone from Japan doesn't get banned. Pitapita(Bahamut) in FFXI was a prime example. That person has japanese name >.>
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#79 Oct 12 2010 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good
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Elionara wrote:
From my experience, anyone from Japan doesn't get banned. Pitapita(Bahamut) in FFXI was a prime example. That person has japanese name >.>

That might just be because they have better customer service. I know at least 1 JP player that was banned in FFXI, friend reported him/her for in game harassment.
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#80 Oct 12 2010 at 4:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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I find this whole thing, if it's true, to be pretty freaking disgusting. If it had happened to me I'd have been cussing up a storm at whoever I got on the phone.

I remember back in 2004, I'd just given birth to my daughter and so clearly I wasn't really in a playing mood. In the weeks after that momentous occasion, my credit card expired. So one day, a month or so later, I try to log in and find that lo and behold, my character is deleted. Sure, my content ID was expired when payment couldn't go through, but they actually DELETED Pikko. When I reactived my IDs, she wasn't there. I was freaking livid because I kept thinking during the recovery process that any moment someone would come and take my name.

Little would I realize that the name loss would happen anyway, just that it would be stolen from me by Square Enix and their pathetic protective arm over canceled accounts. I need to go cancel all my extra IDs so that I'm only paying 7 bucks for basic access per month.
#81 Oct 12 2010 at 4:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Pikko wrote:
I find this whole thing, if it's true, to be pretty freaking disgusting. If it had happened to me I'd have been cussing up a storm at whoever I got on the phone.

I remember back in 2004, I'd just given birth to my daughter and so clearly I wasn't really in a playing mood. In the weeks after that momentous occasion, my credit card expired. So one day, a month or so later, I try to log in and find that lo and behold, my character is deleted. Sure, my content ID was expired when payment couldn't go through, but they actually DELETED Pikko. When I reactived my IDs, she wasn't there. I was freaking livid because I kept thinking during the recovery process that any moment someone would come and take my name.

Little would I realize that the name loss would happen anyway, just that it would be stolen from me by Square Enix and their pathetic protective arm over canceled accounts. I need to go cancel all my extra IDs so that I'm only paying 7 bucks for basic access per month.


Plus $3 for 1 Pikko to run around ? ^^; Though personally, I think if we actually could band together as a community and quit, Zam is big enough they would see what their doing and change their ways maybe.

Either they would:
1) Not Care.
2) Change Policies.

I'd still bet they would choose #1 :(
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#82 Oct 12 2010 at 4:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Actually, I was talking about my XI mules. :)

I still need access to the game for work.
#83 Oct 12 2010 at 7:12 PM Rating: Decent
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So far I have had nothing but good things to say about FF XIV.


But this thread is giving me second thoughts.

I'm going to give SE some time to address this sort of thing and make sure we don't have another epidemic like the gardening bans... but until I'm satisfied with their response my XIV character remains set to expire later this month.
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#84 Oct 12 2010 at 7:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Cloud7Raymaker wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
Ilmoran wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
You can however sue them in small claims court, because they will have owed you an explanation that the judge will approve, or civil damages to return your purchase price.


Unfortunately they don't even owe you an explanation. The User Agreement that everyone agrees to and no one reads states:

Quote:
SQUARE ENIX MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE FINAL FANTASY XIV SERVICE ACCOUNTS, CHARACTERS, VIRTUAL GOODS, OR THE SERVICE ALTOGETHER, AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE OR LIABILITY TO YOU.


a TOS is not a legally binding document in every jurisdiction.

In fact a lot of US courts are striking down overly-draconian TOS's in recent years. SE needs to make a good faith effort to work out issues with customers - it's not just good business but a lot of consumer protection laws are very clear in that you can't take a consumers money and refuse service without due cause. If anything, to win in court SE would have to explain the reason for failure to provide service (despite their TOS) which is pretty much what OP's on these topics are asking for - and a good faith effort to resolve misunderstandings depending on the reason for failure to provide service.

I'm willing to bet some automated system is to blame considering these weird bans all showed up suddenly on new users no less. Hopefully SE will get a handle on it quickly, it doesn't put them in a good light.


This is correct. TOSs are not valid if they are in violation of consumer protection laws. As far as I know, all states have laws that prevent people from taking money for providing a service and not actually performing that service without just cause. TOSs that contain wording like "we can cancel your service for any reason and we don't have to tell you why" do not give companies carte blanche to take peoples money then ***** them over just because they feel like it. They use this wording just to cover their own asses and to scare people into not taking legal action.
#85 Oct 12 2010 at 7:32 PM Rating: Good
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I'm absolutely the farthest thing there is from a legal expert, so feel free to completely shoot down everything I'm about to say if it's untrue.

It's my understanding that almost every "clickwrap" TOS or EULA is unconscionable. That doesn't mean it's a horrible immoral thing and shame on SE for even trying it, "unconscionable" is a legal term meaning a contract can possibly be nullified because one party is at a very great advantage during negotiation, if there is any negotiation at all. Obviously, you have no way to negotiate when you click "yes" to a TOS or EULA, so SE has every advantage and you have no power at all.

Basically, the TOS isn't even remotely airtight. It likely breaks many various consumer protection laws and can possibly be thrown out for being unconscionable if you have a good lawyer. It's just not worth the hassle in almost every case.
#86 Oct 12 2010 at 7:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just curious, but what options did they give you after you got banned?
#87 Oct 12 2010 at 7:48 PM Rating: Good
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This is kind of scary... So much in this game seems to be there to give RMT a harder time, but it all just ends up hurting real customers so much more. What exactly are they thinking? It just doesn't make sense!
#88 Oct 12 2010 at 8:00 PM Rating: Decent
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no option dude, we just received an email saying they were banned, with no reason
#89Dartagon, Posted: Oct 12 2010 at 8:06 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The funny thing here is, most people dont read the TOS or the EULA. In which case this person probably broke one of the 30 rules in which case the penalty is clearly defined. I feel no remorse for your ban nor do I feel SE needs to provide any further details in to their investigation until it is complete. This is pretty standard with most companies.
#90 Oct 12 2010 at 8:12 PM Rating: Decent
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getting sick...
#91 Oct 12 2010 at 8:14 PM Rating: Good
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Ok a little insight based on a few other games where I have seen issues like this happen.

1) contact SE, obviously everyones done that who has this issue.
2) if they refuse to tell you a reason why you are suspended, demand to talk to a supervisor, get their name, their info, everything you can also. Go through the steps as if you were complaining at any store/restaurant etc.
3) If they continue to give you no info, simply state that you will be issuing a charge back against all expenses for the game itself. note that this is not a fraud case, but just a failure to recieve the goods and services purchased. In the case that you were suspended within reason, they have the obligation to tell you why, if they can not, they are basicaly found to be at fauly by the credit card companies.
4) When resolved, ask to be credited game time since it is in fact their fault it is happening. They should EASILY be able to do this, and if anything, youll get the time back you lost, and if lucky, alot of these games have been known to give a free month for the inconvenience(also probly cuz its easier to input it into their system)

In the end, go about it civily, get the info, operator number, everything you can about the person you are talking to every time you ever contact one of these games customer services, make them be held accountable. If the person isnt able to give you the answers, take it above them, they always have someone else higher up the chain who can answer questions if they cant.


Also in the case of yours, the fact that your suspension is post dated....bring that up, and if they say they cant do anything, ask them who can, and demand to speak to that person.

this actualy happens in almost every game that comes out in the first month, its kinda sad.

Edited, Oct 12th 2010 7:16pm by Vedis
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#92 Oct 12 2010 at 8:18 PM Rating: Default
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Dartagon wrote:
The funny thing here is, most people dont read the TOS or the EULA. In which case this person probably broke one of the 30 rules in which case the penalty is clearly defined. I feel no remorse for your ban nor do I feel SE needs to provide any further details in to their investigation until it is complete. This is pretty standard with most companies.

Secondly, I find it funny when people use email or a chat services to speak with customer service...


http://support.jp.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=902&la=1&tag=useragreement_e

SQUARE ENIX MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE FINAL FANTASY XIV SERVICE ACCOUNTS, CHARACTERS, VIRTUAL GOODS, OR THE SERVICE ALTOGETHER, AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE OR LIABILITY TO YOU.

Or they could have just banned them for no reason whatsoever.
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Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
"That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
#93 Oct 12 2010 at 8:19 PM Rating: Decent
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We should all jump on the customer support chat at once and ask why people are being banned for no reasons given :P

Maybe that would get their attention
#94 Oct 12 2010 at 8:20 PM Rating: Decent
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deathly809 wrote:
Dartagon wrote:
The funny thing here is, most people dont read the TOS or the EULA. In which case this person probably broke one of the 30 rules in which case the penalty is clearly defined. I feel no remorse for your ban nor do I feel SE needs to provide any further details in to their investigation until it is complete. This is pretty standard with most companies.

Secondly, I find it funny when people use email or a chat services to speak with customer service...


http://support.jp.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=902&la=1&tag=useragreement_e

SQUARE ENIX MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE FINAL FANTASY XIV SERVICE ACCOUNTS, CHARACTERS, VIRTUAL GOODS, OR THE SERVICE ALTOGETHER, AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE OR LIABILITY TO YOU.

Or they could have just banned them for no reason whatsoever.


while they do have that right, it doesnt stop chargebacks if they cant give a legit reason, so its generaly not a good idea for them to stick to that for everything. But in the cases of people who comit actual wrongs, oh heall yeah it applies in every way shape and form, and they cant do anything about it.
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#95 Oct 12 2010 at 8:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Vedis wrote:
deathly809 wrote:
Dartagon wrote:
The funny thing here is, most people dont read the TOS or the EULA. In which case this person probably broke one of the 30 rules in which case the penalty is clearly defined. I feel no remorse for your ban nor do I feel SE needs to provide any further details in to their investigation until it is complete. This is pretty standard with most companies.

Secondly, I find it funny when people use email or a chat services to speak with customer service...


http://support.jp.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=902&la=1&tag=useragreement_e

SQUARE ENIX MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE FINAL FANTASY XIV SERVICE ACCOUNTS, CHARACTERS, VIRTUAL GOODS, OR THE SERVICE ALTOGETHER, AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE OR LIABILITY TO YOU.

Or they could have just banned them for no reason whatsoever.


while they do have that right, it doesnt stop chargebacks if they cant give a legit reason, so its generaly not a good idea for them to stick to that for everything. But in the cases of people who comit actual wrongs, oh heall yeah it applies in every way shape and form, and they cant do anything about it.


Yeah but do you have any proof that these people did anything wrong? They might have just been playing the game normally and didn't realize they were doing anything wrong. It's not like they knew how the game really works since they only played it twice.
____________________________
Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaarl

Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
"That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
#96Dartagon, Posted: Oct 12 2010 at 8:24 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ignorance, althought very profound, does not give you an excuse to break the rules.
#97 Oct 12 2010 at 8:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Dartagon wrote:
Ignorance, althought very profound, does not give you an excuse to break the rules.

"Honestly officer, I didnt know I couldnt do that" rings a bell.


Actually in this case it would be:

Honestly officer, I didnt know I couldn't do that, mostly because there is no rulebook and the country was just founded yesterday.
____________________________
Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaarl

Carl - "Shhhh, do you hear that? That is the sound of forgiveness."
"That is the sound of people drowning Carl."
Carl - "That is what forgiveness sounds like, screaming and then silence."
#98 Oct 12 2010 at 8:30 PM Rating: Decent
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deathly809 wrote:
Vedis wrote:
deathly809 wrote:
Dartagon wrote:
The funny thing here is, most people dont read the TOS or the EULA. In which case this person probably broke one of the 30 rules in which case the penalty is clearly defined. I feel no remorse for your ban nor do I feel SE needs to provide any further details in to their investigation until it is complete. This is pretty standard with most companies.

Secondly, I find it funny when people use email or a chat services to speak with customer service...


http://support.jp.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=902&la=1&tag=useragreement_e

SQUARE ENIX MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE FINAL FANTASY XIV SERVICE ACCOUNTS, CHARACTERS, VIRTUAL GOODS, OR THE SERVICE ALTOGETHER, AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE OR LIABILITY TO YOU.

Or they could have just banned them for no reason whatsoever.


while they do have that right, it doesnt stop chargebacks if they cant give a legit reason, so its generaly not a good idea for them to stick to that for everything. But in the cases of people who comit actual wrongs, oh heall yeah it applies in every way shape and form, and they cant do anything about it.


Yeah but do you have any proof that these people did anything wrong? They might have just been playing the game normally and didn't realize they were doing anything wrong. It's not like they knew how the game really works since they only played it twice.



Well, with the case at hand, I am not saying they did or did not do anything wrong. I am really just stating the facts in general on how to go about this "if" you really did nothing wrong.
And as for proof when it comes to these things, the paper trail(email included) needs to all be saved, especialy when there are inconsistancies in them that prove something is indeed wrong(such as a post dated suspension).
When a chargeback is issued, the CC company has to follow up to see if its justified, and if SE has no paper trail to back them up, or any documentation other then "we reserve the right to without reason" then guess what, the CC company will issue that chargeback no questions asked beyond that!

Also the fact I have sen this happen in almost every launch game ever, kinda leads me to believe something is just going wrong, and customer service are trying to pass it off in hopes people wont push. If you are not persistant, then they win even if they are in the wrong. You just gotta know how to go about it correctly.

Also to those talking class action, WORST IDEA EVER. especialy if you dont know how they work. Let me explain what happens.

Person A finds a lawyer, he asks for a retainer to pay for expenses until suit is settled, that comes out of person A's pocket. The lawyer could care less if he wins or loses it, as long as he makes money, so of course he will always take the case(ive even seen some who go to launch games and try to stir things up so they can get hired, and they are really obvious).
Then they search for other people to get in on it so there is more leverage for the suit.
Then they go to SE, file it, lose(cuz lets face it, your not winning, id go into detail but im gonna keep this short). And now, Person A gets counter sued for expenses by SE, and wins it!
All this cuz you are out 100 dollars? seriously?
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#99 Oct 12 2010 at 8:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dartagon wrote:
The funny thing here is, most people dont read the TOS or the EULA. In which case this person probably broke one of the 30 rules in which case the penalty is clearly defined. I feel no remorse for your ban nor do I feel SE needs to provide any further details in to their investigation until it is complete. This is pretty standard with most companies.

Secondly, I find it funny when people use email or a chat services to speak with customer service...


How is it you find it funny when people use email or chat services to speak with customer service? Most people do it this way so they have a transcript as to what transpired so if they DO decide to take legal action they have supporting documentation. I know this is how I would handle any customer service so I would have a way to have some sort of transcript as to what transpired. Now if I had a telephone that had an answering service so I could record the conversation, I would go that route, but all I have for a phone service is my cell phone.

It's pure stupid not to use some sort of way to transcribe support in such this situation where legal action could follow.
#100 Oct 12 2010 at 8:46 PM Rating: Decent
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The TOS can say SE is Mohamad, the Dalai lama and Jesus's non-wife reincarnate but that dosen't make it legal just because you agree to it. Not in the US anyways.
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#101 Oct 12 2010 at 9:02 PM Rating: Decent
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nirvycn wrote:
Date of Service Suspension: 11/09/2010 [/i]

Wrong month, looks like copy/paste to me, what's the deal with that?

Regardless, the ToS is pretty much clear that they have no obligation to any of us and any action they take on our account while active under their service is completely at their discretion.
As far as the ToS being deemed unfair in a court of law, I really can't say, but I'd imagine any defense to that claim would cite that it is up to the user to read said ToS before clicking [I Accept]. You'd need a good lawyer to show problems with the ToS that would make it null/void in this instance. I'm pretty sure that SE's lawyers have gone through it with a fine-tooth comb though, so good luck with that - if you were even to sue (pay for a lawyer/waste PTO time at your respective jobs to recover the purchase price of two games seems a little ludicrous to me though).

As far as chatting with customer service being a joke, I'd much rather have a transcript and be able to read English as opposed to being on the phone in a wait-queue, alternating times of being on hold with speaking to a third-world CS rep that can't understand half of what I'm saying, as well as not being able to understand most of what they're saying.

All in all the banning in online FF is absurd. I would think that they would want to investigate accounts before banning at all. It just doesn't make sense to lose that monthly fee, from a purely business standpoint. There are too many factors - are ROGHAWW and ROGHAWWLT really bots, or are they room mates that went through 30 creative names before they were sick of trying to find one that wasn't taken already? Is that guy fishing really a bot, or is he not responding to you because he's anti social or QWERTY illiterate? (My brother-in-law types with his thumbs in fricken swear, he hated FFXI because he couldn't play solo passed level 10 - uh hello, massively MULTIplayer lol).

Oh and the bot auto ban thing referenced above - /facepalm
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