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New Recipe and Recipelist formatFollow

#1 Oct 12 2010 at 10:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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After feedback from you guys about our new recipe format, some of you said that in the new format, the recipe list was no longer printable. We've made some changes to our list and our recipes to help remedy that issue.

http://ffxiv.zam.com/en/recipelist.html

As you can see, the recipes now have separate rows for Primary and Secondary yields, so if you notice differences between hands, please post on the recipe page with the information as it is almost completely undocumented right now.

A list of two types of yields: http://ffxiv.zam.com/en/item.html?ffxivitem=10009302#Recipes

We're working on displaying +1, +2, and +3 on the primary HQ results.
#2 Oct 12 2010 at 10:48 AM Rating: Good
This is great Pikko! I was getting a little frustrated yesterday having to hover over ingredients to see what they were, so definitely a welcome change! It's great to see the admins working to improve things for us consistently. Thanks a lot!
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#3 Oct 12 2010 at 11:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Awsome work !

work great for printing, only cons side is that you have the zam search recipe option printed
everytime you start a new page beside that it flawless :P
#4 Oct 12 2010 at 11:39 AM Rating: Good
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I LOVE YOU!!!! :D
#5 Oct 12 2010 at 12:09 PM Rating: Good
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You Guys should go work for SE! You actually listen to your customer base!

Thanks for listening!
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#6 Oct 12 2010 at 12:09 PM Rating: Good
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Daimakaicho, Eater of Souls wrote:
Brown nosing. I was getting a little frustrated yesterday having to hover over ingredients to see what they were, so definitely a welcome change! More brown nosing.


I noticed in the old format that after a while, the mouse over would stop working.

Just a little ribbing there Daimakaicho. Smiley: smile

Edit: Forgot to say thank you as it looks really great now.



Edited, Oct 12th 2010 2:11pm by Geffe
#7 Oct 12 2010 at 12:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Printable now. It's like you read my mind!

Looks like I'll be staying late at work to print out a full recipe book.

Thanks again to everyone who works on this!!
#8 Oct 12 2010 at 12:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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whenever I hear the word "hover" it makes me think of public toilets... (you know you are a lady when...)

Anyway - nice work - I want to print these out now!
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#9 Oct 12 2010 at 1:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Glad you guys like it! Let us know any feedback!
#10 Oct 12 2010 at 1:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Funny I was thinking about how when I played XI I had a printed woodworking list from Alla, and how it might be tougher to do now, seems your brain scanning devices are working as intended. :)

Geffe the Meaningless wrote:
Just a little ribbing there Daimakaicho. Smiley: smile

Probably shouldnt have mentioned brown nosing, have you looked at Pikko's sig?
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#11 Oct 12 2010 at 2:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just to note, this means that you really need to include tool info when you comment about HQ yields on recipes.
#12 Oct 12 2010 at 2:14 PM Rating: Good
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Its pretty hard to read now, i liked it before.
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#13 Oct 12 2010 at 2:41 PM Rating: Good
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Thank you so much for putting the text names in! Makes scanning recipe lists way faster now to look for something to make

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#14 Oct 12 2010 at 3:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Could you elaborate on what about it is hard to read?
#15 Oct 12 2010 at 4:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Pikko wrote:
Just to note, this means that you really need to include tool info when you comment about HQ yields on recipes.


Can't stress how vital this is right now! I've seen a lot of people posting about HQ results, and they tell you everything, except which tool they used.

Most cases, you can assume MH, but it would be nice to be entirely accurate. I've went about posting on the recipes I've confirmed myself, and will continue to do so.

Really like the new lay out, and adding the Primary and Secondary yeilds is absolutely wonderful.
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#16 Oct 12 2010 at 4:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Minutes away from testing out the printable nature of the layout.

Can someone help me shoo out the remaining employees at my office?
#17 Oct 12 2010 at 4:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jerek is going to think up ways to make it more printer friendly.
#18 Oct 12 2010 at 5:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Can I make some specific suggestions?

I have been trying to creat a book with ALL of the current know recipes in it. So I've tried a number of sites and strategies. All with very sub-par results so far. I did stumble onto the printable list for FFXI recipes. You have been working on things like this for a long time Pikko!

My first attemp at printing gave me blank sheets. *sadface* I'll get back to attempting printing in a minute.

Suggestions:
1.) As mentioned above, can you somehow remove the awesome database searches from the top of each page. They are super handy for all manner of things, but not helpful to printing.

2.) Please add an alphabetized list (Index) of all the recipes for each Class somewhere. When I try to flip through the final book looking for WHO makes a specific item (I know the Item but not who makes it) flipping to this Index for each Class is the fastest way to locate it. (This is from the Eorzepedia Recipes list, they have it at the end of each section. It would be even more helpful at the beginning.)

3.) In order to implement these for a By Class book, it seems that you could make a seperate place for each Class that is the printable version, while not modifying the actual search at all.

4.) Is it possible that the printable version for each Class could simply be 8.5x11 .pdf download? Could be a Premium feature such as you did for FFXI.

I'm suggesting an awful lot of work. You DID ask for suggestions though. This is all in the effort of making a reference book so that players don't have to logout, hook up a second monitor, install windower or play in windowed mode to reference recipes.

I doubt I'm the only one that would like this though. If there was a new Page titled "Printable FFXIV Recipes", it would shoot to the top of a Google search overnight!

Pikko send me a PM if you would like help creating this. I think it could be done with some copy > paste > edit into a Word .doc and then I could print them to .pdfs. I just don't know if you can host .pdfs on ZAM for download?

#19 Oct 12 2010 at 5:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Not sure I understand your alphabetized list thing. Can you just add a class filter and then "Order by Name"? Example: http://ffxiv.zam.com/en/recipelist.html?result=&rank_low=&rank_high=&class=35&tool=&ingredient=&order_by=name
#20 Oct 12 2010 at 5:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yes, I like that feature very much for changing from listing by rank to alphabetic!

What I mean is an index.

A
Animal Glue
B
Beehive Chip
Beeswax
Blinding Dagger
Blinding Potion
Blinding Powder
Bone Sword Grip
Buffalo Leather Dye
C
Canvas Dye
Chalk
Clove Oil
Copper Dust
Cornmeal
Cotton Dye

Just an Example. Sorry to take up a bunch of Space ><.

Ideally, this would go at the beggining of each printable version and take up the least space possible.
#21 Oct 12 2010 at 5:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've een trying to print, and keep getting blank pages.

I've also been trying to copy paste to Word Perfect for editing, no go.

The Printable version would not need the icons, in fact I think they are what is causing it to not print.

Can I ask what program was used to create this?

Oh nice! A small victory, it pastes into Excel. It gives them separate rows but just one column.

What do you think of turning them into downloadable .pdfs? I'm working on creating one now. Would that be helpful?
#22 Oct 12 2010 at 5:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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That type of indexing comes with Wiki and our list is a database. Sorry, but that's not something we'll be adding, unless someone wants to go tagging all 1600 of our recipes with categories in the wiki tabs. That's not something I will be asking my team to do though. =\
#23 Oct 12 2010 at 5:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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I printed the Alchemy recipes ok, but pages 1 and 3 were blank. I printed page 2 and it came out.

Maybe it's the skin you're using? Try switching to white for printing maybe?
#24 Oct 12 2010 at 6:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yes I'm getting the same results, page 2 only shows up. I do use the white skin. No luck.

Anyway it's no problem about the indexing. You are trying to just get what you have printable, rather than invest time in making separate files? I can understand that.

I hope you don't take my suggestions as critisism. I use the database all the time! As well as referring others to it in-game often.

Getting a printed book of it all is proving to be very difficult.
#25 Oct 12 2010 at 6:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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What exactly are you trying to print? All the recipes separated by each class?
#26 Oct 12 2010 at 6:35 PM Rating: Good
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Great so far! I know more is coming....

Any word on when we might see expandable recipe trees for each ingredient? XD
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#27 Oct 12 2010 at 6:38 PM Rating: Decent

Double Plus Good!

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#28 Oct 12 2010 at 6:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Pikko wrote:
What exactly are you trying to print? All the recipes separated by each class?


Yes that's it exactly.
#29 Oct 12 2010 at 7:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'll think about doing a Premium list, but I never even finished the XI ones... I did all that entry by hand. lol
#30 Oct 13 2010 at 4:22 AM Rating: Good
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Awesome work. Thank you very much for all the work Pikko and team!
It's slim and informative.
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#31 Oct 13 2010 at 5:13 AM Rating: Good
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For me, I would like to see some kind of flow chart break out showing what ingredients require more ingredients. I know it probably would not be easy for most of the recipes since they seem to have multiple ingredients that require many other ingredients and crafting skills. In the long run it would make things a lot easier to know what is what.
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#32 Oct 13 2010 at 9:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Pikko wrote:
I'll think about doing a Premium list, but I never even finished the XI ones... I did all that entry by hand. lol


I thought as much. You and your team do alot of work for the FF community!

I would love to pitch in. If you setup a format and choose a file type/program, I could match what you are doing and contribute a Class at a time. Would you want to do one Class and show me what you did? I would really like to help with this instead of just making suggestions for work for your team.

I have Word, Word Perfect, Excel and Adobe. Excel is working best so far. But no way to directly convert from the recipe list.

(What I really need to do is setup a second monitor so I can just use the Database and all the search features.) Ah well, let me know if you would like help with this.
#33 Oct 13 2010 at 10:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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I did them in Excel then printed to PDF. I'll have to look into what's the best way to do it.

FYI, recipes now show up in auto-complete search up top.
#34 Oct 13 2010 at 10:47 AM Rating: Good
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Can you add an option to show all on one page instead of just 50 per page?
#35 Oct 13 2010 at 10:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Pikko wrote:
Could you elaborate on what about it is hard to read?


When I look at Armorer recipes the shards look just like nuggets. Maybe separate the crystal/shards from the other ingredients.
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#36 Oct 13 2010 at 11:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thornpaw wrote:
For me, I would like to see some kind of flow chart break out showing what ingredients require more ingredients. I know it probably would not be easy for most of the recipes since they seem to have multiple ingredients that require many other ingredients and crafting skills. In the long run it would make things a lot easier to know what is what.


We've already discussed and decided it was something that would be worthwhile to do. We'd like to have it done soon(tm).
#37 Oct 13 2010 at 11:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Seventhblood wrote:
Pikko wrote:
Could you elaborate on what about it is hard to read?


When I look at Armorer recipes the shards look just like nuggets. Maybe separate the crystal/shards from the other ingredients.


The issue is one of space. It's a lot of info to cram onto a line. It needs to be compact and useful. There's just only so much we can do with the space we have available. The tables are only meant to be a summary of useful information, not a smaller version of the individual recipe pages.
#38 Oct 13 2010 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
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the recipelists don't print very well for me... but that is cool. I mostly look at them online anyway.
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#39 Oct 13 2010 at 1:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Crystals and materials need to be split. Its confusing, because of the next suggestion.

I would also prefer to see the ingredients laid out similar to how load stone does it. Instead of saying Rock Salt * 3 they have three single rock salt images. It helps when picking materials because you can more quickly and easily see if you have the correct number of items added.

Its not much but something that I find I like much better when compared to the wiki style where they did the "Item x3" thing.

#40 Oct 13 2010 at 1:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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I agree on the shard split, but not so much on the repetitive listing. That actually drives me crazy on Lodestone. lol

As for the icons looking similar... that's why we added the text back in. :(
#41 Oct 14 2010 at 3:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Shards are now split on recipe pages and recipe lists.
#42 Oct 14 2010 at 3:58 PM Rating: Good
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Wow great job! Too bad I can't utilize the list now because my CPU got fried.;;;

I haven't tried printing out the recipes, but based on other people's comments about having trouble printing, would it be possible to have a "Print" button which brings up a separate window that only displays the recipes without all the other stuff? A "printer-friendly" version so to speak. I have no idea if it's hard to do, I just thought it might be easier to have a separate window in which the columns and rows are formatted to fit a page, instead of tweaking the main forum layout.
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#43 Oct 14 2010 at 4:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think Jerek is working on printer formatting.
#44 Oct 15 2010 at 3:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jerek informs me that he made some changes that should make our recipe lists more printer friendly:

- Filters no longer print
- Footers no longer print
- First page is no longer blank
- No longer cuts off after the first page
#45 Oct 15 2010 at 3:49 PM Rating: Good
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It works! It really, really works!

Jerek is my Hero!
#46 Oct 19 2010 at 12:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Recipes now have links to both ingredients and the ingredient recipe (if applicable) along with the skill to make it.

Example: http://ffxiv.zam.com/en/recipe.html?ffxivrecipe=887
#47 Oct 19 2010 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Sorry if I'm being obtuse but I can't seem to figure out what these links are for:

From the example you linked to:

Hempen Yarn 
 Weaver (1) (1 more)


What does the (1 more) mean?
#48 Oct 19 2010 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Pikko wrote:
Shards are now split on recipe pages and recipe lists.


beautiful thank you
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#49 Oct 19 2010 at 12:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's supposed to mean there's more than one recipe for that item, but I'm not sure why it's doing that for Hempen Yarn. I know we used to have two recipes, but I deleted that one a while ago. I'll have to check on that, it's probably a bug. If you look at Taupe Sheep Leather though, you'll see there's more than one recipe.
#50 Oct 19 2010 at 1:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
. I'll have to check on that, it's probably a bug. If you look at Taupe Sheep Leather though, you'll see there's more than one recipe.


Look into the sheep leather one too... it claims (1 more) but when you click it lists three because your doing a LIKE query for "taupe sheep leather" and are getting back "taupe sheep leather dye" as well...

What I would personally do is this:

The ingredient link should point to the search page (what the more link currently does).
Fix the query to find the exact match instead of like matches.
get rid of the (x more) link all together.

Edited, Oct 19th 2010 2:06pm by windexy

Edited, Oct 19th 2010 2:07pm by windexy
#51 Oct 19 2010 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
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ty ty Pikko...you've added so much to my ff experiences.

You rock ^^
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