Forum Settings
       
1 2 Next »
This Forum is Read Only

Nobuo Uematsu plays FFXIVFollow

#52 Oct 13 2010 at 6:56 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,010 posts
Now look what you made me do! I usually don't cut through peoples' posts, but ah, you did have to ask for an apology.

Quote:
Things I have never even implied:
I do not enjoy his music.

Quote:
Regardless, he is something of a hack and his work is hit and miss. Personally I don't even see the point of hiring a semi-prolific composer to do 3-minute scores for an MMO.


I don't know - you backpedaled a lot in your posts but calling his work hit and miss indicates that you don't much care for his compositions. The entire tone of all or your posts just seethes general disgust. You can't make a statement like "Don't get me wrong, I like his works" when implying "but I am going to bash them and him anyway" and expect people to accept that you are genuinely a fan. It's like when people say "no offense", thinking that prefixing something offensive with that phrase somehow makes it ok to say it. It doesn't. It's still offensive, and sometimes more so because in adding that prefix, you are saying you KNOW it's offensive but will say it anyway.

Quote:
He doesn't deserve his fans.

Quote:
having the entire game scored by someone who doesn't really even have the ability, let alone the predisposition, to compose a full piece of music, is something of a waste.
he doesn't know them well enough to take his music beyond very simple compositions.
Again, more like the Britney Spears of video game music. Very popular, yes, and not at all completely without merit. But also a lot of overhype by market effects, a lot of popularity due to a musically ignorant consumer base, and without the opportunity underneath it all, not all that special.
The result is that there isn't a lot of music in the game and a lot of it is lackluster


You basically said that he doesn't deserve the gig, and it follows that he doesn't deserve the fans.


Quote:

I have a disdain for his (or anyone's) lack of a music education.

Quote:
Music is not the freeform art that many music-uneducated people tend to believe it is
due to a musically ignorant consumer base


This is another one of those things that is implied throughout your posts - people without that formal education have no business being employed to create music, nor do they have a place appreciating someone who does create it because they are ignorant. It's just insulting and I don't think you even realize you have this superiority complex.

Quote:

Torrence, either you are intentionally misrepresenting my statements, or you genuinely didn't understand them (and are misrepresenting them regardless). I would appreciate an apology.


Quote:
lol, fanboism is in full swing today, eh?
Um, are you able to read English?
Way to make assumptions, though.


So would I, but I'm guessing that it's not forthcoming.

Honestly, you were a lot sexier when I thought you were an angry starving artist.



Edited, Oct 13th 2010 8:59am by Torrence
#53 Oct 13 2010 at 4:18 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Basically, your argument is that if YOU inferred it, then -I- must have implied it.

Unfortunately, your inferences were assumptions that took what I said and applied connotations that weren't there. You definitely put words in my mouth.

That's a really bad habit. If you don't understand someone's point, you should ask for clarification, rather than assume that you know what they're thinking. Ultimately you've made me out to be a lot more antagonistic towards Uematsu than I am without any good reason. You've exaggerated every negative thing I said, while dismissing every positive thing I say as disingenuous. So basically there's absolutely nothing I can say that will appease you-- you've convinced yourself that I am some enemy of Uematsu. If this were a discussion about a more serious subject, it would be hard not to take it personally.

Oh, and also:
Quote:
So would I, but I'm guessing that it's not forthcoming.


You would appreciate an apology?

Quote:
Though I do apologize to those of you who I may have been undeservedly brash towards.


You already got one.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 3:26pm by Kachi
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#54 Oct 13 2010 at 4:43 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,010 posts
Well, how could I have exaggerated when everything I quoted was taken directly from your posts? I didn't add anything.

I do agree on one point though - it's run its course. We just don't see eye to eye on this one.

#55 Oct 13 2010 at 4:47 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
No no no, let's be clear. You quoted me, then added YOUR OWN interpretation of what I said. And your interpretations were just flat out inaccurate exaggerations of my statements, bordering on hyperbole. And I have a hard time believing that you really don't understand this.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#56 Oct 13 2010 at 6:32 PM Rating: Excellent
**
412 posts
Disdain for lack of musical education...
You need a reality check. You should start by rearing your ugly head out of here. You're clearly angry that someone took the time to critique your comment on Nobou Uematsu yet you feel highly inclined to mention that in choosing to defend Uematsu, we become "raging fanbois" or something retarded like that.

Music is a free form art by the way. You telling us it isn't, does not change that fact whatsoever. You're insulting other cultures by telling them that Bach and Mozart set the foundation of today's music. You have some gall and I sense you feel you're allowed to say such trivial crap because you went to school for music. You should get over yourself.
One would assume that a person such as yourself now has the ability compose beautiful scores that rival even Bach himself. Unfortunately, that isn't the case since you cannot simply learn to be artistic. All you learned at that school was how to recognize Baroque music and what was going on in the composers life when they wrote it. Perhaps you might be able to play an instrument now. Unfortunately, all you're able to do is play music you already know because you simply do not have what it takes to come up with something in your head.

You're either able to make catchy music, or you're not. Deal with it.
____________________________
They appeared from the sky, the one without a heart... "Omega"...And the one who followed it..."Shinryuu"...
Final Fantasy 5
#57 Oct 13 2010 at 8:45 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Quote:
Disdain for lack of musical education...
You need a reality check.


No, you need to READ and/or Torrence needs to quote better. I was quoted out of context.

I have NOT said that I have a disdain for those without a music education. That snippet of a quote was from a list of things that I DID NOT say, and was making it very clear that I DO NOT have a disdain for those without a music education. Caps so maybe people will read what I'm actually saying for once.

And music is only a freeform art if you don't mind creating total crap. Uematsu is successful BECAUSE he follows the rules, not in spite of them. But in that way, he is no different from many popular artists. Even other cultures with different music norms have rules of their own. Audio art is not as subjective as visual art, because we have deeply ingrained genetic predispositions that make certain sounds pleasurable and others unpleasant.

Though I guess at this point I'm trying to explain music and evolution to people who are most likely (statistically speaking) not well-educated in either. Suffice it to say that the considerable majority of people who spend their lives studying music would not agree with your assessment that music is a freeform art. Sound can be freeform, but there's a very wide line between music and noise.

Quote:
You're clearly angry that someone took the time to critique your comment on Nobou Uematsu yet you feel highly inclined to mention that in choosing to defend Uematsu, we become "raging fanbois" or something retarded like that.


You're new here(?), so I'll clue you in that I don't get angry about forum discussions. I enjoy a lively debate, even one as utterly absurd as this one (especially, in fact).

Also, what I offered was a critical comment of Uematsu as a composer. What I received was not a "critique" of my comment, but a witchhunt. I was subdefaulted in less than two minutes. I've made far more controversial statements than that and been met with ample reasonableness. No, the response I received was not duly measured. It screamed of a loyalty that throws all objectivity out of the window-- what some people would call fanboyism.

I know that at this point, people aren't going to actually read the thread and see where a perfectly reasonable comment elicited a ridiculous turn. They're going to see all the sub-defaults, the comments taken out of context, and they're going to jump in on the Kachi-bashing bandwagon. But don't make the mistake of thinking that that bothers me in the least. If anything, it's vindicating to see so many people lining up to be wrong against me, because to the people whose opinion matter to me, there's no question that I'm right-- and the more people are wrong, the better that makes me by comparison. Personally I think being in the 1% that are right but unpopular is better than being in the 99% who only think they are.

And yeah, that's pretty egotistical, and no I don't care. It's not like the people who replied to me aren't being egotistical themselves. They're doing the same thing, only they gain their vindication from the 99% who are wrong.

Ultimately we're talking about video game music, and anyone who brings emotion into a video game music discussion has earned my pity. This is ************* and that's all.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 8:04pm by Kachi
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#58 Oct 13 2010 at 10:23 PM Rating: Good
**
412 posts
So video game music doesn't count as real music or something?
I seriously fail to see how the same form of entertainment is shunned because of its medium.

What ever though. You went to school for music. You must know something I don't.

According to what you said about visual art, we cannot tell when something looks bad the same way some sounds are unpleasant. Very good to know. I seriously wonder what goes through your head while you type this.

Edited, Oct 14th 2010 12:28am by lambon
____________________________
They appeared from the sky, the one without a heart... "Omega"...And the one who followed it..."Shinryuu"...
Final Fantasy 5
#59 Oct 13 2010 at 11:02 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Quote:
So video game music doesn't count as real music or something?


No? Why would you assume that I was saying anything like that? Because I think arguing about music isn't particularly important, and I specified that it was video game music? Does it help if I say that I think that arguing about all music is essentially *************

But look, if I were to try and make the argument that video game music doesn't count as real music, I would point out that the majority of contemporary music will not have a lasting place in the annals of music history. Particularly in Uematsu's case, a great deal of his career as a composer existed in a context in which what was considered real music was not possible for video games. The music he composed would have been completely unacceptable in any context other than a video game with very limited memory. Some people interpret the fact that they love his music in spite of these limitations as a testament to his ability, but in reality, probably most composers under the same constraints if asked to create the same quantity of work would have created a similarly successful repertoire.

But ultimately, a lot of people, myself included, enjoy it, so none of that really matters. I just think it's a mistake to consider these kinds of artists infallible and legendary when they're about as legendary as the musicians that you're grandparents really liked-- the ones that you've never even heard of and who will be completely obscure in another generation.

Quote:
According to what you said about visual art, we cannot tell when something looks bad the same way some sounds are unpleasant. Very good to know. I seriously wonder what goes through your head while you type this.


No, that's not what I said. Visual art is simply more subjective than music, particularly today. Part of this is due to the differences in the ways visual art and music are perceived by the mind, and part of it is due to the fact that exposure to contemporary visual art is more likely to expand our appreciation of a variety of visual styles-- conversely, our exposure to contemporary music reinforces "the rules" and makes it even harder to appreciate music that deviates from them.

What goes through my head is a synthesis of thousands of hours of education that are not easily explained or understood by those who haven't had access to the same information. I don't point this out to proclaim any kind of superiority-- I just find it a little indefensible that people are so aghast at the assertion that not having an education limits one's potential.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#60 Oct 13 2010 at 11:20 PM Rating: Decent
**
412 posts
You're telling me that an educational background in music has enlightened you to what music is good and what music is bad. You don't need an education in music to tell it apart.
Putting sounds together in a manner that makes it pleasant to the ear does not require education. It is something that people with talent are able to create.

Have fun cycling through the nonsense you have managed to put together from learning thousands of hours of music. I know you don't learn this crap in music school.

I got my point across and this is obviously getting nowhere. See ya.
____________________________
They appeared from the sky, the one without a heart... "Omega"...And the one who followed it..."Shinryuu"...
Final Fantasy 5
#61 Oct 14 2010 at 12:02 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
Kierk wrote:
Uematsu can make a simple melody tug at your emotions, and that is all that really matters.
I've yet to hear a song from FFXIV that does this. What I've heard is dull and lifeless, and the noticeable synth-y nature is really grating in a hurry. He's getting old.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#62 Oct 14 2010 at 5:07 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,010 posts
I didn't quote you out of context..... This thread started out as a rumor whether Nobuo Uematsu plays FFXIV, and I made ONE small comment about thinking him legendary. You turned it into some debate about whether he is a good composer, deserves his gig and deserves his fans or not. All of those statements support the point you were making - it's not like I went to some other random thread and pulled things you said out of there. That would be quoting out of context.


The easy thing to do would be to just say ok - you know I didn't realize that I really sounded that way to other people about this issue - instead of blaming others for their interpretations. I just read what is there. You've been pretty harsh and bashed on the guy a lot, comparing him to Britney Spears (NO serious artist would appreciate THAT), calling him a hack in several posts, saying any number of composers could have done a much better job... Either you really think that all the music of FF starting with 1 and ending with 9 (the last game he scored by himself of the series) is pathetic hack because of some imaginary lack of musical mastery due to no formal musical education, or you don't.

I was interested in your opinions, but you have this way about you of making everyone else feel small. You could have had a discussion about your thoughts on what he could have done better or what another artist might have done without calling him a hack. I can't find a post where you suggest an actual name of someone who might have done it better - just a generic "any number of composers" which we don't really know for sure, since "any number of composers" don't necessarily have the decades of experience with the FF titles Uematsu has.
#63 Oct 14 2010 at 5:45 AM Rating: Excellent
Sage
****
8,779 posts
torrence shoots and he SCORES!!!!! DO YOU BELIEVE IN MIRACLES?!

but seriously, i feel the same way. i thought my hands washed of the issue, but after reading what torrence said its worthwhile to state my support of what he says.
____________________________
Quote:
The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#64 Oct 14 2010 at 8:11 AM Rating: Good
*
100 posts
Quote:
As I said, I didn't have any desire to be a music professional. Ultimately, regardless of my giftedness for music, music is a relatively unimportant profession and I wanted to do something that I felt was more meaningful.


Ouch. Music is pretty important, bub. It's clear from your intelligible posts that you probably have a good memory and some technical proficiency but that doesn't make you a gifted musician. It makes you a player. Composers and musicians do not refer to music as unimportant unless they are drunk or depressed (or both).

Quote:
And music is only a freeform art if you don't mind creating total crap


Some people have a gift for creating beautifully layered music without ever having any formal training (Jimi Hendrix and Stevie Ray Vaughn come to mind as modern examples). Complexity is not an indication of quality either. Because truly great music demands our full attention, often times a piece that is too complex will be difficult to appreciate while playing an MMO. We don't need to be listening to Rachmaninoff or Chopin while we are grinding.

Most of us probably kill the sound eventually in favor of our own tunes or the television anyway. You play an MMO long enough that regardless of how great the music is, it's going to get tiresome. So jam out to whatever you want.
____________________________
Homer no function beer well without.
#65 Oct 14 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Torrence... /sigh... /facepalm

Let's look at the facts. You quoted me as saying this.
Quote:
He doesn't deserve his fans.


Quote:
I have a disdain for his (or anyone's) lack of a music education.


In doing so, you apparently overlooked the fact that you made it appear as though I DID say those things, when I only gave them as examples of things I DID NOT say, but that you inferred.

I believe that you did that accidentally, but it doesn't change the fact that people who didn't bother to read my sub-defaulted posts looked to the quotes that you cherry-picked to glean my position on the discussion.

Further, you continue to insist that I called him a hack, when I called him "something of a hack." You don't see a difference? It doesn't matter. Don't pretend to quote me and then use words other than my own. But for future reference, "something of a hack" leaves plenty of room for "something of a genius." And if you would acknowledge that your powers of deduction are apparently not what you think they are, you wouldn't have been so quick to assume otherwise. See, I didn't say that he is "something of a genius" and I didn't say that he isn't. But you ASSUMED that I would have said that he isn't without bothering to ask, and that was your mistake.

Quote:
Either you really think that all the music of FF starting with 1 and ending with 9 (the last game he scored by himself of the series) is pathetic hack because of some imaginary lack of musical mastery due to no formal musical education, or you don't.


And you decided that I think he's a "pathetic hack" (upgraded from "something of a hack") even though I said that I enjoy his music, and that I only voiced criticism of choosing him to score an MMO, when I explicitly said that his compositions were totally appropriate for a single player game (like 1-9!) Are you starting to see your mistake yet? You have twisted every criticism I've made into something worse than what I said, and you've ignored every good thing I've said.

And Quor, the reason you agree with Torrence is probably because you've made the same fallacious assumptions. A common character flaw would be a prime example of something being popular and not being right.

Quote:
I can't find a post where you suggest an actual name of someone who might have done it better - just a generic "any number of composers" which we don't really know for sure, since "any number of composers" don't necessarily have the decades of experience with the FF titles Uematsu has.


If you looked at what I wrote instead of trying to see what you want to, I very clearly said that putting the entire score of an MMO on a single composer was a mistake, particularly if that composer isn't strong at creating complex or ambient music. I pointed out that for what they likely paid Uematsu, they could have hired a few other composers. I don't believe that one composer can create a sufficient -quantity- of music without sacrificing quality. But ultimately, I just don't think Uematsu's style of simple, catchy music suits the MMO genre well.

Quote:

Ouch. Music is pretty important, bub. It's clear from your intelligible posts that you probably have a good memory and some technical proficiency but that doesn't make you a gifted musician. It makes you a player. Composers and musicians do not refer to music as unimportant unless they are drunk or depressed (or both).


I think it's -relatively- unimportant. For example, it's important to me to have good music to listen to... but it's not that important either. And I don't consider myself a player, a musician, or a composer. The only attachment I have to the field of music now is dabbling in music psychology. When it came down to it, I felt that I should be doing something more important.

Quote:
Some people have a gift for creating beautifully layered music without ever having any formal training (Jimi Hendrix and Stevie Ray Vaughn come to mind as modern examples). Complexity is not an indication of quality either. Because truly great music demands our full attention, often times a piece that is too complex will be difficult to appreciate while playing an MMO. We don't need to be listening to Rachmaninoff or Chopin while we are grinding.

Most of us probably kill the sound eventually in favor of our own tunes or the television anyway. You play an MMO long enough that regardless of how great the music is, it's going to get tiresome. So jam out to whatever you want.


You're right-- some people do. Unfortunately, Uematsu isn't one of them. And while complexity isn't an indication of quality, it is an indication of depth. I don't agree that it requires our full attention though, and I don't think a piece can be "too complex" in an MMO, unless it's simply inappropriate to the setting.

As the perfect example of how your argument isn't really apt, the game Eternal Sonata is scored entirely by Chopin, and it works rather beautifully even as a single player game. Actually, I'd probably rather FFXIV be scored by Chopin.

But your final point is that eventually you're going to get sick of it. And that's my point, too. And if the standard for the quality of a score is how long it takes before players are sick of listening to it, I honestly think that Uematsu is a worse choice than a few other composers. And ideally maybe Uematsu is in there too, but the other composers lighten his load.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#66 Oct 14 2010 at 7:17 PM Rating: Good
4 posts
CassiusOS wrote:
neither Beethoven nor Mozart had any formal education in composition


Huh? How are you saying that neither of them had musical training? Beethoven studied under Hayden for goodness sake. Now, he may have been an intollerable student, rebellious to his core, and likely to madden his teachers, but he certainly had the best musical education that one could have hoped for. Mozart had been trained since his early childhood to play piano, at a time when pianos weren't something you found simply laying around the house, they were the height of technology at the time.

I think this sort of nonsense is the reason Kachi comes off as elitist and arrogant. It's immensely frustrating to see how little regard hard work and music training receive. Certainly, there have been geniuses who have skills that can not be taught (among whom Mozart is indisputably chief), but the vast majority of composers worked and studied very hard, then poured weeks of hard work into their compositions. It's not like someone sits down and "jams" and symphony comes out because they are geniuses, any more than a scientist comes to conclusions because they are geniuses. Look at how much work it took Edison to come up with a filament that worked for the light bulb. That was simple hard work and dedication. I find this cult of genius to be a generally debilitating syndrome. If you think that you just can't be the next Beethoven or Edison (due to your lack of genius), then will not study in such a way so as to improve yourself, thus following their paths.
#67 Oct 14 2010 at 7:28 PM Rating: Decent
4 posts
lambon wrote:

Music is a free form art by the way. You telling us it isn't, does not change that fact whatsoever.


Music is not free form. For instance, consider this piece. All the composer did differently was to break melody from from the harmonic constraints that have been in place since Bach:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utm1HH16uwM&feature=related

Can you listen to that and enjoy it? Emotionally? Personally, I love modern music, and generally try and hit most of the contemporary composers that my local symphony showcases. But I can't listen to Schönberg and do anything but try and make sense out of it.

Additionally, I'm sure that Kachi would agree with your points on the validity of other musical cultures. However, it does not change the system of music we are brought up with, and we have grown accustomed to. I'll freely admit that I often have trouble listening to semi-toned classical Indian music. It doesn't make it worth less. But its just not something I understand and relate to on any emotional level. I think that is likely true of just about any person raised in the Western musical tradition.
#68 Oct 14 2010 at 7:52 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Thank you, Gwen. It is certainly not my intention to come across as elitist or arrogant. The point of my argument has always been the importance of education, even in music, and to point out how Uematsu's lack of a music education has limited his own development as a composer. That doesn't make him a bad composer at all-- it just means that he doesn't do everything well. And when playing an MMO, if I'm going to actually listen to the music and not turn the volume down, I want a lot of richly intricate composition, or at least something ambient. These are not Uematsu's stengths, and that might have been different had he received formal training. But even beyond these not being his strengths, it's somewhat unrealistic to expect both quantity and quality of that level from a single composer-- one who is surely paid what at least a few other composers could have been paid.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#69 Oct 14 2010 at 8:27 PM Rating: Decent
4 posts
I'm going to go ahead and do something that will probably get me karma bombed here:
I agree with Kachi's statement that Uematsu is something of a hack.

Just to be clear, I've driven over 9 hours 3 times to hear his music performed by a symphony, and likely will do so at the next possible opportunity. I have most of his cds (and wish that Celtic Moon cd didn't cost so much to import), love his music, and until recently, would have listed him as the musician who music I would take onto a desert island if I could only pick one. (Growing more familiar with the works of Tchaikovsky displaced Mr. Uematsu actually).

However, my love for Nobuo Uematsu's music does not change the fact that his lack of music education hinders his growth as a composer. Just so I can try to express what I'm trying, I'm going to give an example from history. Let's consider the career of Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov. Here's a link to his first symphony:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIRbjthdkeo

Go ahead and give that a listen. It's composed by an amateur. Rimsky-Korsakov wrote that while working for the Russian Navy, and had intentionally spurned any Western musical training so he could create a truly Russian style of music. His command of musical color that would become one of the most notable features of his later works is quite evident. This work landed him a job at the Saint Petersburg Conservatory, where he had to study hard and do masterful bluffing to simply stay one class ahead of his students. He went on to become one of the great composers of his era. His amazing Russian Easter Overture never could have been written had he not thoroughly studied composition and music theory.

Nobuo Uematsu has an incredible talent for writing melodies. I don't think it's going out on a limb to say that Uematsu has more talent for coming up with melodies than did Beethoven. However, that talent is not able to shine because he comes up with amazing 30 second clips of music, and does not know how to turn them into longer compositions that take full advantage of his abilities. This was certainly not an issue for the early FF games, as the NES and SNES had great limitations in terms of number of voices, length of tracks, and timbre available. His first game without these constraints, FFVII, features some of his greatest work. It seemed that he was expanding his skill with the medium.

However, the soundtrack to FFXIV does not reflect a man who is a great composer and has actively sought to improve his craft to take advantage of larger budgets, less technical limitations, and the artistic respect lent to a beloved veteran of his craft. I had assumed that "Ronfaure" signaled that he was trying out a theme and variation form, and thus was working at expanding his abilities, and studying to improve himself. However, not a single track that I have heard thus far in FFXIV has given me that impression. Most are short and contain only one musical theme, which will simply get turned off by about the 150th repetition. Take Twilight Over Thanalan: it has a great melody, and could easily be used to make a long movement of a symphony. However, very little is done other than building it up, then bringing it back down to the solo piano. It's pregnant with musical possibilities, but none of them are taken, and all your left with is a great melody that you hear in its entirety before finding the next dodo to kill (and switching to the wall-o'-guitar battle music). It's hard to be fans of someone, and KNOW how they could get better, and see how much greater they could be, if they just did the work to get there. It'd be like being a fan of Guns and Roses: you know if they could only get off drugs and get along, they would have been the greatest rock band in history.

Nobou Uematsu is known the world over for his compositions. He is able to fill symphony halls with adoring fans who uproareously applaud his works. He hears the power of his music being played with a full symphony and choir (really, if any of you haven't had the pleasure of seeing "One-winged Angel" played live, do yourself a favor and make an effort to get to the next Distant Worlds concert.) Yet in spite of all that, he still leans on Arnie Roth to do all his arrangements, he doesn't write new works that would transfer well into the concert hall, he doesn't improve his compositions to take advantage of all the extra color and voices he has to work with, his rhythms never deviate from a steady 4/4 rock beat (except for "Waltz for the Moon"), and he often falls back onto cheap synthesizer sounds when he should score for musicians and record them. Calling him "something of a hack" does not seem all that out of line.
#70 Oct 14 2010 at 11:05 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Agree 100%. A very concise summary of the argument I was trying to make with excellent examples. A better analysis than I could have offered, for sure.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#71 Oct 15 2010 at 1:41 AM Rating: Good
**
923 posts
.....

Edited, Nov 1st 2010 3:46am by samosamo
#72 Oct 15 2010 at 5:40 AM Rating: Decent
*
175 posts
He should've been on Trabia..! By the way.. he's higher than me in rank.. u.u
____________________________
| I still believe in FFXIV...
My name is pronounced "kai-neh" actually.. and yes, it is feminine..
#73 Oct 15 2010 at 9:19 AM Rating: Excellent
***
1,673 posts
Forgive me Nobuo! I only wished to show your fans that you play the game you created the music for. Instead, we got a flame war. /Sadpanda
#74 Oct 15 2010 at 2:25 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Quote:
Why don't you two finish fellating each other before the thread explodes from sheer pretentiousness.


I know. **** us and our informed opinions.

Seriously, two educated people can't agree with eachother, but if everyone else wants to have a circle jerk about a Uematsu like a gaggle of giddy tweens, god help those who interject a difference of opinion.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
1 2 Next »
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 11 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (11)