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The Sad Truth about NPC Sell/Buy LagFollow

#1 Oct 12 2010 at 11:15 PM Rating: Good
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This is not meant to be a FFXIV vs WoW debate. It's just to show how poorly implemented this feature is in FFXIV. The video speaks for itself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EaGvRv6jqw&feature=player_embedded
#2 Oct 12 2010 at 11:24 PM Rating: Good
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I'm starting to feel like my dog has worms. Instead of people saying, "Hey, i'm sorry your dog has worms.", i just get a bunch of people telling me my dog has worms. Thanks?

Edit: My dog doesn't really have worms btw. :)

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 1:25am by Teneleven
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#3 Oct 12 2010 at 11:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Its funny. But the WoW graphics are **** ugly and cartoonish. That video could easily be turned over to "Comparing graphics in xiv to WoW" and be in xiv's favor lol.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 1:29am by PinkMermaid
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#4 Oct 12 2010 at 11:40 PM Rating: Good
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PinkMermaid wrote:
Its funny. But the WoW graphics are **** ugly and cartoonish. That video could easily be turned over to "Comparing graphics in xiv to WoW" and be in xiv's favor lol.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 1:29am by PinkMermaid


Yea but the point is WoW is a much much older game.
#5 Oct 12 2010 at 11:48 PM Rating: Good
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PinkMermaid wrote:
Its funny. But the WoW graphics are **** ugly and cartoonish. That video could easily be turned over to "Comparing graphics in xiv to WoW" and be in xiv's favor lol.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 1:29am by PinkMermaid


yea cos good graphics automatically make a good game /sarcasm.
#6 Oct 12 2010 at 11:50 PM Rating: Decent
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PinkMermaid wrote:
That video could easily be turned over to "Comparing graphics in xiv to WoW" and be in xiv's favor lol.


haha, that's true.
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#7 Oct 13 2010 at 12:43 AM Rating: Default
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bushpig wrote:
PinkMermaid wrote:
Its funny. But the WoW graphics are **** ugly and cartoonish. That video could easily be turned over to "Comparing graphics in xiv to WoW" and be in xiv's favor lol.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 1:29am by PinkMermaid


yea cos good graphics automatically make a good game /sarcasm.


Right, because being able to sell stuff fast to NPCs also is a game's making or breaking point.

WillCider wrote:
PinkMermaid wrote:
Its funny. But the WoW graphics are **** ugly and cartoonish. That video could easily be turned over to "Comparing graphics in xiv to WoW" and be in xiv's favor lol.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 1:29am by PinkMermaid


Yea but the point is WoW is a much much older game.


Yes exactly, so how is comparing the menu selling of a "much, much older game" to xiv (a game less than a month old) fair either??

You both de-value the OP in your comments to my post, which was just a joke.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 2:46am by PinkMermaid
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#8 Oct 13 2010 at 12:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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I was thinking of making a vid like this but to highlight the **** "sale doesn't process" thing where I have to do the whole sell process ~10 times before it actually sells the **** thing. For ONE ITEM.

Also would be nice to make one showing the million times your window closes itself while trying to set a bazaar price on your **** retainer. It really is beyond pathetic how horrible all interactions are atm.

Also, this vid would have still worked if it was FFXIV vs FFXI(which wasn't even as super efficient as WoW appears to be).

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 2:53am by RattyBatty
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#9 Oct 13 2010 at 12:54 AM Rating: Good
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RattyBatty wrote:
I was thinking of making a vid like this but to highlight the **** "sale doesn't process" thing where I have to do the whole sell process ~10 times before it actually sells the **** thing. For ONE ITEM.

Also would be nice to make one showing the million times your window closes itself while trying to set a bazaar price on your **** retainer. It really is beyond pathetic how horrible all interactions are atm.


I admit, my sale process is a little slow, but i never have that problem. Everything i sell, sells. It just takes a bit for the windows to come up. Usually about 2 seconds.
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#10 Oct 13 2010 at 12:57 AM Rating: Good
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RattyBatty wrote:

Also would be nice to make one showing the million times your window closes itself while trying to set a bazaar price on your retainer. It really is beyond pathetic how horrible all interactions are atm.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 2:53am by RattyBatty


That is soooo annoying, happens to me everytime with retainer when I first talk to him, but I havent had the issue while NPCing stuff.
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#11 Oct 13 2010 at 1:18 AM Rating: Good
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PinkMermaid wrote:
bushpig wrote:
PinkMermaid wrote:
Its funny. But the WoW graphics are **** ugly and cartoonish. That video could easily be turned over to "Comparing graphics in xiv to WoW" and be in xiv's favor lol.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 1:29am by PinkMermaid


yea cos good graphics automatically make a good game /sarcasm.


Right, because being able to sell stuff fast to NPCs also is a game's making or breaking point.

WillCider wrote:
PinkMermaid wrote:
Its funny. But the WoW graphics are **** ugly and cartoonish. That video could easily be turned over to "Comparing graphics in xiv to WoW" and be in xiv's favor lol.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 1:29am by PinkMermaid


Yea but the point is WoW is a much much older game.


Yes exactly, so how is comparing the menu selling of a "much, much older game" to xiv (a game less than a month old) fair either??

You both de-value the OP in your comments to my post, which was just a joke.






Edited, Oct 13th 2010 2:46am by PinkMermaid


that "much, much older game" is way more advanced that this buggy mess, and no i don't play it =P

i know ff is not a month old but it should be better than what's out there as it is, and its not.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 3:19am by bushpig
#12 Oct 13 2010 at 1:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Having never really seen or played WoW, does the interface really take up 40% of your screen like that? If that is what people are expecting out of a UI overhaul in XIV, SE can consider my subscription canceled, cause that is a cluttered and disgusting eyesore.
#13 Oct 13 2010 at 1:31 AM Rating: Good
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Furia wrote:
Having never really seen or played WoW, does the interface really take up 40% of your screen like that? If that is what people are expecting out of a UI overhaul in XIV, SE can consider my subscription canceled, cause that is a cluttered and disgusting eyesore.


Actually no, it doesnt. In WoW you have carry bags and have the option of opening a particular bag or any of them up to all. So this guy has every bag open which is why his screen is full of those blocks. When you open bags you can do it individually or all at once. It would normally only take up small corner of the screen unless you open all bags to view inventory.
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#14 Oct 13 2010 at 1:52 AM Rating: Good
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WrynOhmsford wrote:
Actually no, it doesnt. In WoW you have carry bags and have the option of opening a particular bag or any of them up to all. So this guy has every bag open which is why his screen is full of those blocks. When you open bags you can do it individually or all at once. It would normally only take up small corner of the screen unless you open all bags to view inventory.


Thanks for the clarification Wryn, I was unable to distinguish the item icons from the ability icons, so my thought was it may be necessary to have like 10 Ability Macro Blocks open all the time or something.
#15 Oct 13 2010 at 2:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Another thing to consider is the way multiple 'menus' in WoW can be open simultaneously and interact with each other without the need to close any of them. What's more, most (if not all) of these screens are accessible with a single click or hotkey.

You can have your inventory and your character equip screen open at the same time while talking to a vendor and having access to the buy/sell function with a single click. You cannot sell equipped items but you can unequip them while the vendor dialogue is open. If you sell something important by accident you can buy it back for the same price, no big deal. You can simply DO what you need to with regards to buying, selling and storage, do it quickly and efficiently then get back to playing.

Just now (in XIV) i went to put some gloves in my retainer's inventory. I walked up to the bell, clicked the menu, selected 'summon retainer', verified that i did, in fact, want to summon my retainer, clicked on my retainer's name (why do i have to choose if there is only one?), listened to the ringing bell sound, selected 'exchange items with your retainer', then FINALLY got the the actual exchange screen.

It was at this point that i realized (to my horror) I had forgotten to unequip the gloves I wanted to store.

So! I closed the exchange screen, backed out of the retainer menu, opened the main menu again, selected 'Attributes and Gear' ...
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#16 Oct 13 2010 at 2:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Furia wrote:
Having never really seen or played WoW, does the interface really take up 40% of your screen like that? If that is what people are expecting out of a UI overhaul in XIV, SE can consider my subscription canceled, cause that is a cluttered and disgusting eyesore.

If you really want to know...

The UI is completely customizable. You can change fonts, filter what text you want to see, customize your bars position, size and keybinds. You can also scale the entire size of the UI up or down. Instead of having to open up one big main menu you can attach them to the minimap so they open in a click. You can drag and drop abilities from your spellbook to your action bars.... so on. This interface is so much more functional than what is currently in XIV.

The UI in the video only looks cluttered for a few reasons. The main reason is resolution. The smaller your screen, the more space UI will take up. He also has all of his bags opened and displayed, something you probably wish you could do in XIV. Having your entire inventory on screen makes it easier for you to organize and sell your loot. Also, you're missing the point here.

In WoW you click a vendor, select the option to buy/sell, press shift+B to open your bags and simply right click anything you want to sell. If you only want to sell a specific quantity you shift click and type the number. No spamming cancel to back out of all the menus, simply walk away with your money. If that wasn't easy enough you could also drag and drop. Basic windows functionality. What a concept...

Using the same amount of steps in XIV will only get you to the inventory screen. You still need to scroll through your inventory which takes time. Then you select the item. Notice that your scrollable inventory disappears and now you're stuck sorting item by item unless you cancel out. Then you select the quantity of items you want to sell. Finally you confirm the sale on your first item(s). At this point you notice that the inventory screen that used to be there is now gone for some reason and you have to sort through your items one by one unless you cancel out. Right about now is the time you realize just how much you really miss being able to sort your inventory. Understand just how much time all of these steps will take you in a game that is already a time sink and you're on the path to enlightenment.


tl;dr

I would rather my UI take up 40% of my screen for the 8 seconds it took to sell trash to a vendor than waste 40% of my playtime navigating a UI from the 1990s.
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#17 Oct 13 2010 at 3:46 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
PinkMermaid wrote:
Its funny. But the WoW graphics are **** ugly and cartoonish. That video could easily be turned over to "Comparing graphics in xiv to WoW" and be in xiv's favor lol.


I agree, but then compare graphics with FFXI/WoW and frankly FFXI still puts WoW to shame.

Quote:
Right, because being able to sell stuff fast to NPCs also is a game's making or breaking point


Agree'd again ;)

Quote:
Having never really seen or played WoW, does the interface really take up 40% of your screen like that? If that is what people are expecting out of a UI overhaul in XIV, SE can consider my subscription canceled, cause that is a cluttered and disgusting eyesore.


Spot on, its why I couldnt fall in love with WoW, it is designed so some one doesnt have to think, work hard or even move their hand from the mouse. The fact SE added manual attack so you have to do something during a battle. With FFXI you can just engage but to get things done you used Macro's which again required you to do something. To me WoW will always be the lazy game.

But this entire arguement will just kick off a WoW vs FFXI/FFXIV. All you have to do is remember FF was designed by a hard working society compared to WoW and I will not even bother with that one. Personally I say, give it all a few months when SE has tweaked it.

I can bet right now that in 18 Months time, FFXIV could be a real challenge to WoW and dont forget WoW had huge problems on Day 1 release and a much bigger budget.
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#18 Oct 13 2010 at 4:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Lonix wrote:
...WoW... is designed so some one doesnt have to think, work hard or even move their hand from the mouse... To me WoW will always be the lazy game...
We are talking about smooth, seamless, effective and functional User Interface implementation; We are talking about a control scheme with a simple layout that is both intuitive 'stock' and yet completely customizable to whatever the USER (that's YOU) wishes.

The point isn't how this particular player's screen looks. The point is that no matter HOW it looks it is still 100% functional. He can sell the crap he wants to get out of his bag in moments without needlessly repetitive prompts and menus, and get back to playing the game. Final Fantasy XIV cannot do that.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 10:18am by Timorith
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#19 Oct 13 2010 at 4:29 AM Rating: Good
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...WoW... is designed so some one doesnt have to think, work hard or even move their hand from the mouse... To me WoW will always be the lazy game...

Hellz yeah! Same with cars! You stupid people that turn their car on by turning a key PHAH!

Everyone knows that people with real brains use a car that starts up by cranking a giant handle sticking out the front of the hood!!! And gears?? HUMBUG! Gas and brake is all you need. Anyone that needs more gears needs to learn to use4 their brain while driving!!!

bbl have to get my tires re-vulcanized. *honk honk*

/sarcasmoff



Edited, Oct 13th 2010 6:30am by RattyBatty
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#20 Oct 13 2010 at 4:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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RattyBatty wrote:
I was thinking of making a vid like this but to highlight the **** "sale doesn't process" thing where I have to do the whole sell process ~10 times before it actually sells the **** thing. For ONE ITEM.


You can avoid this by waiting a second or two before you hit Sell on the screen where you select how many items to sell. That's right, the problem is you didn't wait around long enough.
#21 Oct 13 2010 at 5:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Lonix wrote:
Quote:
PinkMermaid wrote:
Its funny. But the WoW graphics are **** ugly and cartoonish. That video could easily be turned over to "Comparing graphics in xiv to WoW" and be in xiv's favor lol.


I agree, but then compare graphics with FFXI/WoW and frankly FFXI still puts WoW to shame.

Quote:
Right, because being able to sell stuff fast to NPCs also is a game's making or breaking point


Agree'd again ;)

Quote:
Having never really seen or played WoW, does the interface really take up 40% of your screen like that? If that is what people are expecting out of a UI overhaul in XIV, SE can consider my subscription canceled, cause that is a cluttered and disgusting eyesore.


Spot on, its why I couldnt fall in love with WoW, it is designed so some one doesnt have to think, work hard or even move their hand from the mouse. The fact SE added manual attack so you have to do something during a battle. With FFXI you can just engage but to get things done you used Macro's which again required you to do something. To me WoW will always be the lazy game.

But this entire arguement will just kick off a WoW vs FFXI/FFXIV. All you have to do is remember FF was designed by a hard working society compared to WoW and I will not even bother with that one. Personally I say, give it all a few months when SE has tweaked it.

I can bet right now that in 18 Months time, FFXIV could be a real challenge to WoW and dont forget WoW had huge problems on Day 1 release and a much bigger budget.


What in the ****? You don't make any sense in your post and honestly it seems like you have no idea what you are talking about.

As for FFXIV challenging WoW, I just woke up my roommates from laughing so hard after reading that. Theres not a chance in **** of that happening nor would the SE fanboys even want that to happen.
#22 Oct 13 2010 at 6:04 AM Rating: Good
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RattyBatty wrote:
I was thinking of making a vid like this but to highlight the **** "sale doesn't process" thing where I have to do the whole sell process ~10 times before it actually sells the **** thing. For ONE ITEM.

Also would be nice to make one showing the million times your window closes itself while trying to set a bazaar price on your **** retainer. It really is beyond pathetic how horrible all interactions are atm.

Also, this vid would have still worked if it was FFXIV vs FFXI(which wasn't even as super efficient as WoW appears to be).

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 2:53am by RattyBatty


I had this issue. The problem is that you are doing it too quickly, which is unfortunate. Wait a second before hitting the button to complete the sale. It will go through.
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#23 Oct 13 2010 at 6:06 AM Rating: Good
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Lonix wrote:
I agree, but then compare graphics with FFXI/WoW and frankly FFXI still puts WoW to shame.


Art direction isn't the same thing as graphics. Starting with the first expansion (The Burning Crusade) and continuing up to now, WoW has a more advanced graphical engine than FFXI. It simply isn't even a contest.

FFXI has polygon induced and laden character models with low-grade skins laid over top. The rest of the game is graphically inferior to even most PS2 games.

It's fine to not like WoW because you can't stand the art direction and overall 'look' to the game. But stating that it's graphically inferior is moronic beyond belief.

Lonix wrote:
Spot on, its why I couldnt fall in love with WoW, it is designed so some one doesnt have to think, work hard or even move their hand from the mouse. The fact SE added manual attack so you have to do something during a battle. With FFXI you can just engage but to get things done you used Macro's which again required you to do something. To me WoW will always be the lazy game.


No, chances are, judging by your comments here, you 'couldn't fall in love with WoW' because you're clearly not very intelligent. If you don't like how the standard UI looks, you're free to change it. That's miles above anything SE has done at the moment and unless they dramatically shift FFXIV towards entirely user customizable UIs will continue to be.

I fail to see how having to write a macro for everyday simple tasks makes a game 'not lazy'. The stupid spouted above is truly legendary.

Lonix wrote:
But this entire arguement will just kick off a WoW vs FFXI/FFXIV. All you have to do is remember FF was designed by a hard working society compared to WoW and I will not even bother with that one. Personally I say, give it all a few months when SE has tweaked it.


Yes, you won't bother with that because you know how utterly retarded what you just typed sounded.

Lonix wrote:
I can bet right now that in 18 Months time, FFXIV could be a real challenge to WoW and dont forget WoW had huge problems on Day 1 release and a much bigger budget.


FFXIV won't even be a challenge to FFXI, much less anything else on the market. Keep dreaming and enjoy your self delusion.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 8:06am by StrijderVechter
#24 Oct 13 2010 at 6:10 AM Rating: Good
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RattyBatty wrote:

Hellz yeah! Same with cars! You stupid people that turn their car on by turning a key PHAH!

Everyone knows that people with real brains use a car that starts up by cranking a giant handle sticking out the front of the hood!!! And gears?? HUMBUG! Gas and brake is all you need. Anyone that needs more gears needs to learn to use4 their brain while driving!!!

bbl have to get my tires re-vulcanized. *honk honk*

/sarcasmoff

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 6:30am by RattyBatty


Firmly on the side of FFXIV in the recent forum debates, but that post definitely tickled me. Kudos.
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#25 Oct 13 2010 at 6:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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But this entire arguement will just kick off a WoW vs FFXI/FFXIV. All you have to do is remember FF was designed by a hard working society compared to WoW and I will not even bother with that one.


Comments like this just make no sense. Some of you live in a vacuum if you truly think that Blizzard didn't work hard and doesn't deserve their success. You are off your rocker if you think that Americans in general don't work hard (or at least as hard as the Japanese), as well. That's just insulting. Where are you even from?

Ok, I get it, the graphics are cartoony and you think that because you have the option to quest to level cap the game is too easy. These are the only arguments that keep recurring because when comparisons like this are drawn you just can't bring yourselves to admit that Blizzard did it better.

This thread was about efficiency when buying and selling items. There is no lag in WoW. There is no lag in FFXI. There is lag in FFXIV because they did something wrong. And on top of that, they did something wrong after doing the very same thing right for ten years in another game.

The interface in WoW is light years ahead of FFXIV because Blizzard isn't out there sending Cease and Desist letters to guys like the Windower team. They understand that one size doesn't fit all, and they also understand that as a company they can't make all those different sizes themselves. So what is the next best option? Make a toolkit available to their fans who will then run with it and customize their experience. It's still World of Warcraft - just with player-created tools designed to give a little something for everyone.

I don't know what SE is afraid of - but it seems to me like their infamous arrogance and maybe a little insecurity is getting in the way of producing a good game. It's sad that they don't understand that allowing more freedom and accepting feedback would actually increase their playerbase.
#26 Oct 13 2010 at 6:24 AM Rating: Good
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eq1, lotro and d&do are all significantly faster than ffxiv. 2m30s plus for 20 items is ridiculous
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#27 Oct 13 2010 at 6:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Lonix wrote:
Quote:
PinkMermaid wrote:
Its funny. But the WoW graphics are **** ugly and cartoonish. That video could easily be turned over to "Comparing graphics in xiv to WoW" and be in xiv's favor lol.


I agree, but then compare graphics with FFXI/WoW and frankly FFXI still puts WoW to shame.

Quote:
Right, because being able to sell stuff fast to NPCs also is a game's making or breaking point


Agree'd again ;)

Quote:
Having never really seen or played WoW, does the interface really take up 40% of your screen like that? If that is what people are expecting out of a UI overhaul in XIV, SE can consider my subscription canceled, cause that is a cluttered and disgusting eyesore.


Spot on, its why I couldnt fall in love with WoW, it is designed so some one doesnt have to think, work hard or even move their hand from the mouse. The fact SE added manual attack so you have to do something during a battle. With FFXI you can just engage but to get things done you used Macro's which again required you to do something. To me WoW will always be the lazy game.

But this entire arguement will just kick off a WoW vs FFXI/FFXIV. All you have to do is remember FF was designed by a hard working society compared to WoW and I will not even bother with that one. Personally I say, give it all a few months when SE has tweaked it.

I can bet right now that in 18 Months time, FFXIV could be a real challenge to WoW and dont forget WoW had huge problems on Day 1 release and a much bigger budget.


Umm... lol? Did you even play WoW?

I've never seen anyone try to say that FFXI / FFXIV combat is better than WoW's because you actually have to do something (i interpret "do something" as push a button). You really couldn't be more wrong on this one. The thing WoW combat gets criticized for is having to push the same 5-6 buttons over and over again in a pattern, not having nothing to do in combat. I assure you, you probably click 10x more buttons in a fight of the same duration in WoW vs FFXI. The global cool down on abilities in that game is about 1.5 seconds, and if you aren't pushing a button every time that CD is up, you are losing important DPS. That's not including the constant movement because one thing WoW certainly doesn't let you do is stand in one place.

If WoW combat truly was so simple, you wouldn't have good players doing literally triple the DPS of weak players wearing gear of roughly the same level. Those good players also tend to be the ones still alive at the end of the fight while the others are taking a nice, long dirt nap.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 8:39am by Izuul
#28 Oct 13 2010 at 6:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:

Firmly on the side of FFXIV in the recent forum debates, but that post definitely tickled me. Kudos.

Well thanks, but I don't remember ever arguing against FFXIV. Only its glaring inexcusable problems. As I repeat in almost every thread on the topic: Pushing for improvement on the product is far more pro-FFXIV than advocating silence on the issues. If I hated FFXIV I wouldn't spend any time reading or writing about it.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 8:53am by RattyBatty
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#29 Oct 13 2010 at 7:58 AM Rating: Good
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This is so true. I hate selling things. It's faster just to craft it into something nifty.

I didn't care about UI lag until I started working with a retainer. Retainer lag is the worst in the game. And then when I'm done, my retainer says something snarky. :K

I hate working with him. However, fixing the UI will make dealing with him less painful.
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#30 Oct 13 2010 at 8:03 AM Rating: Good
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RattyBatty wrote:
Quote:

Firmly on the side of FFXIV in the recent forum debates, but that post definitely tickled me. Kudos.

Well thanks, but I don't remember ever arguing against FFXIV. Only its glaring inexcusable problems. As I repeat in almost every thread on the topic: Pushing for improvement on the product is far more pro-FFXIV than advocating silence on the issues. If I hated FFXIV I wouldn't spend any time reading or writing about it.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 8:53am by RattyBatty


I didn't suggest otherwise. I was simply making sure no one would misunderstand why I found your post amusing. In other words, I wasn't laughing at the game. I was laughing at the analogy.
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#31 Oct 13 2010 at 9:05 AM Rating: Good
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RattyBatty wrote:
Quote:
...WoW... is designed so some one doesnt have to think, work hard or even move their hand from the mouse... To me WoW will always be the lazy game...

Hellz yeah! Same with cars! You stupid people that turn their car on by turning a key PHAH!

Everyone knows that people with real brains use a car that starts up by cranking a giant handle sticking out the front of the hood!!! And gears?? HUMBUG! Gas and brake is all you need. Anyone that needs more gears needs to learn to use4 their brain while driving!!!

bbl have to get my tires re-vulcanized. *honk honk*

/sarcasmoff



Edited, Oct 13th 2010 6:30am by RattyBatty



Funniest thing I've read today. Immediately brought to mind this:

Mr. Burns: Yes, I'd like to send this letter to the Prussian consulate in Siam by aeromail. Am I too late for the 4:30 autogyro?
Kid: Uh, I better look in the manual.
#32 Oct 13 2010 at 9:52 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah all NPC interactions are la-la-laborious
In lotro I would just hit sell all and anything I hadnt locked would be gone, also can buy stacks of items with single click.
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#33 Oct 13 2010 at 10:38 AM Rating: Good
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You noobs just don't get it.

All the extra menu's and buttons is "innovative" and make the game more "challenging". >.>

Spending 15 minutes at an npc selling items = hardcore.

btw that vid made ffxiv look like more fun than it actually is.
#34 Oct 13 2010 at 10:41 AM Rating: Good
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1,422 posts
But at least it has awesome graphics, and that's the absolute most important thing, amirite?
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#35 Oct 13 2010 at 10:54 AM Rating: Good
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241 posts
KristoFurwalken wrote:
You noobs just don't get it.

All the extra menu's and buttons is "innovative" and make the game more "challenging". >.>

Spending 15 minutes at an npc selling items = hardcore.

btw that vid made ffxiv look like more fun than it actually is.


Yeah, this guy must be closer to the servers or something, selling items is actually a bit slower than that for me, i spend a good 20-30 minutes just clearing up inventory space.
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There once was a tiger striped cat. This cat died a million deaths and was reborn a million times and was owned by various people who he didn't care for. The cat wasn't afraid to die... One day, the cat was a free cat, a stray cat. He met a white female cat, and the two cats spent their days happily together. Years passed, and the white cat died of old age. The tiger striped cat cried a million times, and then died. It never
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#36 Oct 13 2010 at 11:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Everyone I know that played WoW complain it is a boring mindless game. There is no community and all there is is "Look at my uberloot" and that is about it.

Different games are for different people. Comparing Apples and Oranges might make some sense but the moment you said "Well I like Orange better so your liking Apple Suxxors" you have lost all sense.

And Graphically WoW is inferior than FFXI. You can say well it has a more updated graphic engine - well so does modern Photoshop compared to Michaelangelo. The ability to display graphic is not the entirety of "graphic." The post would be wrong if he said "FFXI's graphic engine is better than WoW" but that is not what he said.

Personally I despise the direction Blizzard has taken their game's graphics. I did not even buy Starcraft 2 mainly because the cartoony way in which units looked. Beta just turned me off completely.

Then again I also like Dawn of War 2, which in my opinion is a better game in every sense (from MP to SP), - so different stroke for different folks.
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#37 Oct 13 2010 at 11:07 AM Rating: Default
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JamesX wrote:
Everyone I know that played WoW complain it is a boring mindless game. There is no community and all there is is "Look at my uberloot" and that is about it.

Different games are for different people. Comparing Apples and Oranges might make some sense but the moment you said "Well I like Orange better so your liking Apple Suxxors" you have lost all sense.

And Graphically WoW is inferior than FFXI. You can say well it has a more updated graphic engine - well so does modern Photoshop compared to Michaelangelo. The ability to display graphic is not the entirety of "graphic." The post would be wrong if he said "FFXI's graphic engine is better than WoW" but that is not what he said.

Personally I despise the direction Blizzard has taken their game's graphics. I did not even buy Starcraft 2 mainly because the cartoony way in which units looked. Beta just turned me off completely.

Then again I also like Dawn of War 2, which in my opinion is a better game in every sense (from MP to SP), - so different stroke for different folks.


no
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#38 Oct 13 2010 at 11:12 AM Rating: Good
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241 posts
WillCider wrote:
This is not meant to be a FFXIV vs WoW debate.


Guess people just love arguing about WoW vs FFXIV.

Just like how humans like to have Wars, it'll never stop so long as people enjoy it.

FFXI is my most cherished MMO, I love it to death, i'll defend it to death.

FFXIV is a dissapointment, the interface is the worst i've ever seen in any game. Pretty sure the oregon trail had a better interface than this game.
____________________________
There once was a tiger striped cat. This cat died a million deaths and was reborn a million times and was owned by various people who he didn't care for. The cat wasn't afraid to die... One day, the cat was a free cat, a stray cat. He met a white female cat, and the two cats spent their days happily together. Years passed, and the white cat died of old age. The tiger striped cat cried a million times, and then died. It never
came back to life.
#39 Oct 13 2010 at 11:14 AM Rating: Decent
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451 posts
Oregon Trail MMO = win
#40 Oct 13 2010 at 11:21 AM Rating: Decent
I have noticed that the fewer people that are on my server, the faster everything responds. I think that it's not so much a UI problem as it may be how the information from your PC is being sent to the server. I don't know anything about that stuff, but I started playing on a very lightly populated server and the UI was very fast, until the server started filling up.

But basically what it comes down to is: if you don't like FFXIV don't play it; no one is holding a gun to your head. I would rather have half-empty servers of people who enjoy the game, then overpopulated servers crammed with people who only want to complain. Not to mention I'll have my fast UI back.

Does FFXIV have problems? Yes. Does Square Enix plan to fix them? Yes. Is there anything your complaining is gonna solve? No. So stop complaining. SE knows what is wrong. They are a company. They want to make money. Trust me, they are not gonna let a game they spent a ridiculous amount of money making flop. Should they have waited a little longer? Maybe. But so far, I like the game and haven't run out of things to do. The UI may be a little slow, but it's not like I could do a better job writing the software, so who am I to complain? Can you program a game like this? And if you can, why are you in this forum instead of doing it?

As far as everyone always wanting to compare games. Final Fantasy will always stand on it's own. I can't say that FF is better than WoW or any other game because each game is made for different people. WoW is cartoony and thats fine, if you like that kind of thing. Me, personally, I like a more "realistic" (I use that loosely, since anyone can argue that no matter how "real" it looks it is still fictional) environment, and characters. I tried LotRO, but once again just not my thing; I liked the movies, but the game held no interest for me. So the way I see it is, FFXIV is FFXIV, it's not WoW, it's not FFXI, it's not LotRO, or any other game. Am I going to go around bashing games because, I, one person out of millions and millions of people think that another game is better, and should be changed to work like it? If you change a game to work just like another game, then it loses it's self-identity. I don't wanna play some cookie-cutter game that has the same UI and mechanics and player-interaction, that another game has, because then all I am doing is playing the other game with a different skin on it.

So, complain if you want, but until I see you doing it better, I will let SE handle the problems, while I willingly choose to pay to play the game that I want to play.

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#41 Oct 13 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Decent
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3,530 posts
PinkMermaid wrote:
bushpig wrote:
PinkMermaid wrote:
Its funny. But the WoW graphics are **** ugly and cartoonish. That video could easily be turned over to "Comparing graphics in xiv to WoW" and be in xiv's favor lol.



yea cos good graphics automatically make a good game /sarcasm.


Right, because being able to sell stuff fast to NPCs also is a game's making or breaking point.

WillCider wrote:
PinkMermaid wrote:
Its funny. But the WoW graphics are **** ugly and cartoonish. That video could easily be turned over to "Comparing graphics in xiv to WoW" and be in xiv's favor lol.



Yea but the point is WoW is a much much older game.


Yes exactly, so how is comparing the menu selling of a "much, much older game" to xiv (a game less than a month old) fair either??

You both de-value the OP in your comments to my post, which was just a joke.


Now that's a good counter attack!
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"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#42 Oct 13 2010 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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108 posts
KristoFurwalken wrote:
Oregon Trail MMO = win


This made me laugh out loud. We actually played an RPG for the trail Dungeon and Dragon's style in 5th grade.

We had character customization and everything.

My PC caught colera and died. ;_;
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#43 Oct 13 2010 at 12:03 PM Rating: Good
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3,530 posts
RattyBatty wrote:
Quote:
...WoW... is designed so some one doesnt have to think, work hard or even move their hand from the mouse... To me WoW will always be the lazy game...

Hellz yeah! Same with cars! You stupid people that turn their car on by turning a key PHAH!

Everyone knows that people with real brains use a car that starts up by cranking a giant handle sticking out the front of the hood!!! And gears?? HUMBUG! Gas and brake is all you need. Anyone that needs more gears needs to learn to use4 their brain while driving!!!


Because nobody claims to like a manual car over an automatic? I always had the impression that most people who really liked cars (as a hobby or whatnot) actually preferred manual transmissions.

What about all the people who collect old cars?

But this is why I hate metaphors on forums; though it was humourous, it was not entirely effective...
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#44 Oct 13 2010 at 12:18 PM Rating: Good
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I played FFXI, lived it and loved. I played WoW, liked it. I play FFXIV and I feel like the "next generation" is really a retro comeback. Like when bell bottoms and lava lamps came back in the 90's. FFXI and Wow have their differences and I enjoyed things from both of them. I remember reading a bunch of interviews from FF developers when they announced XIV some time ago and they discussed how they play other mmos and XIV should take the best things out of WoW and FFXI and others to make the best mmo experience. WTF happened. FFXIV is worse in every single way compared to FFXI and WoW. Did they take the worst ideas and put them together? People talk about the great graphics of XIV but seriously most zones are dull of color and I run across stretches of land that are a copy and paste from something I just ran through. Granted the sky is beautiful and the light shining of of water is so realistic but I thought that of FFXI especially after CoP was released there was some great zones full of color and life. What ****** me off is SE had a UI that worked better than any other mmo hands down in FFXI. 8 years later couldn't they have taken what was working and just make it even better?
I am playing hoping for changes, that is my fault. I am setting myself up for complete dissappointment.
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#45 Oct 13 2010 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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PinkMermaid wrote:
Its funny. But the WoW graphics are **** ugly and cartoonish. That video could easily be turned over to "Comparing graphics in xiv to WoW" and be in xiv's favor lol.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 1:29am by PinkMermaid


Graphics aren't, by far, the most important aspect of a game. Ripping on WoW because it has worse graphics than FF14 is petty.
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#46 Oct 13 2010 at 12:44 PM Rating: Good
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Furia wrote:
Having never really seen or played WoW, does the interface really take up 40% of your screen like that? If that is what people are expecting out of a UI overhaul in XIV, SE can consider my subscription canceled, cause that is a cluttered and disgusting eyesore.


You have almost complete customization of your UI in WoW due to addons. Even without addons you can adjust the size of action bars plus other things. When I played WoW I had resolution pretty high and even with a stock UI the interface didn't take up a large part of my screen.
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Final Fantasy XIV: Neithan Turambar, Cactuar Server
Guild Wars 2: Level 80 Guardian Neithan Turambar Jade Quarry Server
WoW: Lvl 85 Shaman Friewyn Black Dragonflight Server (retired)
FFXI: Lvl 75 Dark Knight Neithan (retired many years ago)
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#47 Oct 13 2010 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
This same video could be made with Aion, just so people don't lock into anti-WoW ********** Their selling system is obviously different, but it's also very quick in comparison to FFXIV. Then again, FFXI is quick in comparison to FFXIV too, which begs the question, how did SE manage to regress this way?
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#48 Oct 13 2010 at 3:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Ok lets do this the right way.

1) WoW is older, and more developed. Had more time to fine tune and adjust things.
2) FFXIV is newer, should have learned what people like about the UI from other games, not just WoW. Maybe they did.
3) WoW has a customizable interface because it's a PC game.
4) FFXIV's interface will be harder to deal with for the console users. But not as hard for the PC users. When they develop a UI for cross platform in this scenario, they have to keep in mind how each one is interactable (mouse vs. controller).

I am using a gamepad, because it's much easier to interact in the game with it, than it is with the mouse and keyboard. The only time I want a mouse, is when i'm in a group of 12 people/mobs and need to target a specific person to heal, and I don't have the reaction time I need with a gamepad to select that person (using D-Pad left/right to select random people, or Up/Down to select between party members). It's much faster to take my right hand off the gamepad, grab the mouse, and click the person's character.

That being said, the interface is fine (though deeply buttonized if that's a term I can use). Lots of things to click, some are needed, some are not. There are situations where they could consolidate screens, give selections to choose, and have a single accept button, but no. I'd like to have the FF13 menu option where you do:

select item in inventory, it moves to the right on qty. and you go up/down/left/right to change the qty to sell/buy and press X/Circle/Accept etc.

It would be nice.
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#49 Oct 13 2010 at 3:45 PM Rating: Good
4 posts
I would take a game with little less better graphic but with a good UI/search fonction/AH over a awsome graphic game,Just my 2 cent.


Good graphic dont make a good game :)
#50 Oct 19 2010 at 9:46 PM Rating: Good
29 posts
Kardall wrote:
Ok lets do this the right way.

1) WoW is older, and more developed. Had more time to fine tune and adjust things.
2) FFXIV is newer, should have learned what people like about the UI from other games, not just WoW. Maybe they did.
3) WoW has a customizable interface because it's a PC game.
4) FFXIV's interface will be harder to deal with for the console users. But not as hard for the PC users. When they develop a UI for cross platform in this scenario, they have to keep in mind how each one is interactable (mouse vs. controller).

I am using a gamepad, because it's much easier to interact in the game with it, than it is with the mouse and keyboard. The only time I want a mouse, is when i'm in a group of 12 people/mobs and need to target a specific person to heal, and I don't have the reaction time I need with a gamepad to select that person (using D-Pad left/right to select random people, or Up/Down to select between party members). It's much faster to take my right hand off the gamepad, grab the mouse, and click the person's character.

That being said, the interface is fine (though deeply buttonized if that's a term I can use). Lots of things to click, some are needed, some are not. There are situations where they could consolidate screens, give selections to choose, and have a single accept button, but no. I'd like to have the FF13 menu option where you do:

select item in inventory, it moves to the right on qty. and you go up/down/left/right to change the qty to sell/buy and press X/Circle/Accept etc.

It would be nice.


I am enjoying FFXIV as much as can be done in it's current state, BUT I am an Ex WoW Player who played from BETA and I can tell you that the selling and UI in WoW's BETA even way back then, long before they fine tuned and tweaked it, worked just as well as it does today. The plus today is all of the great addon support in WoW that allows you customize your UI and to sell all of your unwanted items with one button click, but I digress...

My point is that it is obvious that the UI in FFXIV is laggy, slow and terrible. I don't understand why even long time fans of the Final Fantasy series and Square Enix's work, which I consider myself, can't just admit it and move on. I can't honestly believe that anyone in their right mind thinks that the sort of lag we deal with between each menu option and the sheer amount of options we have to select to do basic functions is acceptable.

I suppose I answered my own question there didn't I?


#51 Oct 19 2010 at 9:58 PM Rating: Default
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602 posts
WillCider wrote:
PinkMermaid wrote:
Its funny. But the WoW graphics are **** ugly and cartoonish. That video could easily be turned over to "Comparing graphics in xiv to WoW" and be in xiv's favor lol.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 1:29am by PinkMermaid


Yea but the point is WoW is a much much older game.


So is XI, and it doesn't look like crap.
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