Forum Settings
       
This Forum is Read Only

With all these updates...Follow

#1 Oct 13 2010 at 7:03 AM Rating: Default
14 posts
Note: I have never played this game but I am very interested in the turn out. Yes, I have done my homework and know all about its fatal flaws as well and its strong points.

There has been an update at least once a week since the release of this game. With the promise of addressing the Marketing and Retainer issue for the Otc. 15 update, I have some questions.

In your OPINION:

1) Do you think this will make the game more enjoyable?
2) Do you feel S-E is prioritizing issues correctly in the sense of what get patched first?
3) Will XIV keep and/or get back some of its subscribers with all these updates?
4) Is S-E listing to the community?
5) Is S-E handling the situation at hand well?

Cheers

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 10:14am by AttackOfTheBum
#2 Oct 13 2010 at 7:09 AM Rating: Default
6 posts
At the current rate of patching and correcting problems the game will be up to what most people expect from a brand new MMO in about 18 months. It isn't the frequency of patching, it is how many thyings need to be redone that is the concern here.
#3 Oct 13 2010 at 7:14 AM Rating: Decent
*
116 posts
Not complain? Novel concept.

People will always find something to whine about.
____________________________


#4 Oct 13 2010 at 7:15 AM Rating: Good
*
116 posts
Ganado wrote:
At the current rate of patching and correcting problems the game will be up to what most people expect from a brand new MMO in about 18 months. It isn't the frequency of patching, it is how many thyings need to be redone that is the concern here.


I've told you a million times not to exaggerate.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 9:16am by Clydey2Times
____________________________


#5 Oct 13 2010 at 7:27 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
398 posts
On the other hand what most people expect from a new MMO is highly unrealistic and no MMO to date has had a luanch that went that well... And bugwise they are doing alot better than Vanguard or Age of Conan did.

As for how they are doing, pretty well from an ingame perspective. Alot of features that people have come to feel they need aren't presant but to a large degree I personaly am not put out by this, and kind of hope that we never see an Auction House. Mailboxes would be nice on the otherhand, it can be pretty rough trying to meet up with LS mates to trade face to face, but if they decide they don't want them I'll get by (like in UO).

The crafting system could use some touchups too, some of the difficulty levels of lower level items is absurd, like a rank 15 chest being hard to make than a rank 23 chest from the same craft... yes I mean the Dodo skin jacket and the Dodo harness.
#6 Oct 13 2010 at 7:30 AM Rating: Decent
14 posts
Ganado wrote:
At the current rate of patching and correcting problems the game will be up to what most people expect from a brand new MMO in about 18 months. It isn't the frequency of patching, it is how many thyings need to be redone that is the concern here.


I truly appreciate your feed back and earnestly respect your opinion seeing as how you've played it and i have not. But can you answer the questions at hand? I'm trying to get a good understanding on where the community, as a whole, is on all this.
#7 Oct 13 2010 at 7:34 AM Rating: Decent
Sage
**
534 posts
1- The game is enjoyable. It depends on whether or not you have the patience to stick it out at this point. People who say it will take 18 months to finish up the are wrong...it will take many more years than that since it will we updated constantly. I finally got around to doing some Leve 20s last night and had a blast. Not once did I think about the UI, sorting, market,...I just had fun. Those lost in the details will always have problems...with any game. This one just happens to have a ton of issues...most correctable.

2 - Yes, they have come out and said they have worldwide teams gathering feedback. They now that the market ward system needs fixed and UI lag needs dramatic improvement which seems to be at the top of their list.

3 - who cares...I'd rather the impatient ones stay away. Many are other mmo transplants who would probably ***** n moan after most of the fixes are made. There seems to be a lot of bitter gamers who just like to complain to get attention. I also have no repsect for those who played the beta, knew what they were getting into, bought the game anyways, played for a couple days...and flamed on ever since.

4 - Yes, see #2

5 - Too soon to tell. The ones trying to fix things are not the ones who made the decision to release the game months before it should have been released. It was a bad business decision...but SE is a monster and should be able to weather the storm.
____________________________
Amos Fin - Ultros

#8 Oct 13 2010 at 7:35 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
2,652 posts
Clydey2Times wrote:


I've told you a million times not to exaggerate.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 9:16am by Clydey2Times



a million times....

exaggerate....
#9 Oct 13 2010 at 7:36 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
**
278 posts
AttackOfTheBum wrote:
Ganado wrote:
At the current rate of patching and correcting problems the game will be up to what most people expect from a brand new MMO in about 18 months. It isn't the frequency of patching, it is how many thyings need to be redone that is the concern here.


I truly appreciate your feed back and earnestly respect your opinion seeing as how you've played it and i have not. But can you answer the questions at hand? I'm trying to get a good understanding on where the community, as a whole, is on all this.


There is no where the community is as a whole. Some of us love it for what it does right, other hate it for what it does wrong. (Queue "It does nothing right!"). I think the only consensus you will get is that the UI is "Archaic" but if you played FFXI you will get used to it.

**** if it wasn't for these forums I would never know anything is wrong with the game, but then again my MMO experience tends to include more than just WoW, unlike some on this forum, so my tolerance level is just a bit higher.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 9:38am by Wloire
#10 Oct 13 2010 at 7:37 AM Rating: Decent
*
116 posts
Smelly wrote:
Clydey2Times wrote:


I've told you a million times not to exaggerate.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 9:16am by Clydey2Times



a million times....

exaggerate....


Heard of irony?
____________________________


#11 Oct 13 2010 at 7:41 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
2,652 posts
Clydey2Times wrote:
Smelly wrote:
Clydey2Times wrote:


I've told you a million times not to exaggerate.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 9:16am by Clydey2Times



a million times....

exaggerate....


Heard of irony?


nope
#12Clydey2Times, Posted: Oct 13 2010 at 7:43 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You have just witnessed an example of it.
#13 Oct 13 2010 at 7:45 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
2,652 posts
Clydey2Times wrote:
Smelly wrote:

nope


You have just witnessed an example of it.


Sarcasm
#14 Oct 13 2010 at 7:46 AM Rating: Decent
14 posts
Wloire wrote:
**** if it wasn't for these forums I would never know anything is wrong with the game, but then again my MMO experience tends to include more than just WoW, unlike some on this forum, so my tolerance level is just a bit higher.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 9:38am by Wloire


I agree. These forums have well served their purpose for being a source of + and - feedback as well as in-game help and discussion. Personally I have no MMO experience. (Unless you count play Maple Story at age 13 MMO experience)
#15 Oct 13 2010 at 7:50 AM Rating: Default
*
116 posts
Smelly wrote:
Clydey2Times wrote:
Smelly wrote:

nope


You have just witnessed an example of it.


Sarcasm


Yes, I'm aware. I should litter my post with smilies in future, in order to make sure that people know I'm joking.

Anyway, I think this little exchange has derailed the topic enough.
____________________________


#16 Oct 13 2010 at 7:53 AM Rating: Good
***
1,636 posts
AttackOfTheBum wrote:
Note: I have never played this game but I am very interested in the turn out. Yes, I have done my homework and know all about its fatal flaws as well and its strong points.

There has been an update at least once a week since the release of this game. With the promise of addressing the Marketing and Retainer issue for the Otc. 15 update, I have some questions.

In your OPINION:

1) Do you think this will make the game more enjoyable?
2) Do you feel S-E is prioritizing issues correctly in the sense of what get patched first?
3) Will XIV keep and/or get back some of its subscribers with all these updates?
4) Is S-E listing to the community?
5) Is S-E handling the situation at hand well?

Cheers


1) only marginally. I don't see named wards actually working as intended. For example, there will still be people selling crystals in the armor ward because its higher traffic than the shard ward. I buy most of my gear at crystals anyways, I was getting by with the crappy market wards system as it was, this isn't going to change my mind about that.

2) Not really. I think they are addressing bugs and UI lag which are important, but I think its some of their design decisions that are hurting them more. Outside of the old EQ amd early FFXI players, not many people are willing to grind as much as this game currently requires.

3) Some yes, but not as many as people would like. 14's got another month to try and keep some people from going to cataclysm. Then its got another 2-3 months to hook people in and keep them from going to DC/TOR/GW2, all of which are higher profile and getting more ad time already.

4) Maybe? I have no idea. Their statements feel like stock answers. Their comments suggest that they have selective hearing, and are picking their battles.

5) Not at all. Their anti RMT task force auto banner is hitting innocent people, and they've said nothing. They have not given a list of what they consider items that will be addressed in the future, we're just hearing about one thing at a time, and waiting for the next to come up. If they don't plan to change skillups/leveling curve I'd rather know and quit now, stop wasting my time.
____________________________


#17 Oct 13 2010 at 8:00 AM Rating: Good
Sage
*
109 posts
To the OP, I like the idea for your post, but I think the title rubs people the wrong way.

To the sub-defaulters, the OP isn't really trolling that hard, do you have to really karma bomb everything you see that you don't like?

1) Do you think this will make the game more enjoyable?
Lots of these updates are very pleasant to see, but they feel so... Small, you know? I think if we were seeing huge changelogs, even if they didn't tackle a ton of the issues players have, it would make the playerbase feel a lot better about SE.

2) Do you feel S-E is prioritizing issues correctly in the sense of what get patched first?
No. Definitely not. They are dealing with issues, of course, but the patches are very small and they also don't target the playerbase's biggest concerns, like interface, hotkeys, SP issues, etc. It's all very lackluster and frustrating.

3) Will XIV keep and/or get back some of its subscribers with all these updates?
I am sure XIV will keep more than they would have had no changes occurred, but it's still a leaky faucet of subs. I think that with better updates, obviously, come better retention of subscribers.

4) Is S-E listing to the community?
Yes and no. They clearly have seen the things that are being said and have promised that they are taking a look at those issues, but the greatest cry of anguish from the playerbase is the lack of communication, which has seen little to no improvement over their standard fare.

5) Is S-E handling the situation at hand well?
Very much not. If you recall, SE has done such things as referred to their non-Japanese playerbase as "foreigners", told their developers that "it's just customers", and fails to engage the catastrophic response from the playerbase and reviewers. They are maintaining an air of control and indifference instead of, how I feel it should be, a sense of conciliation for the problems that exist in the game and of gratitude for the people who will choose to dedicate themselves to the game. Do you know how far it would go if SE made a PR stating that it is deeply sorry for the percieved bugs and is incredibly grateful for the patience of its beloved fans? It would have fanboys and gamers alike drooling at the recognition.
____________________________
Into Memoria - FFXIV Free Company
#18 Oct 13 2010 at 8:02 AM Rating: Decent
14 posts
KujaKoF wrote:
2) Not really. I think they are addressing bugs and UI lag which are important, but I think its some of their design decisions that are hurting them more. Outside of the old EQ amd early FFXI players, not many people are willing to grind as much as this game currently requires.


Do you think that in their design decisions, S-E is just doing it wrong? Or are they in fact doing it another way?

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 10:26am by AttackOfTheBum
#19 Oct 13 2010 at 8:13 AM Rating: Decent
14 posts
Ksamim wrote:
2) Do you feel S-E is prioritizing issues correctly in the sense of what get patched first?
No. Definitely not. They are dealing with issues, of course, but the patches are very small and they also don't target the playerbase's biggest concerns, like interface, hotkeys, SP issues, etc. It's all very lackluster and frustrating.


Is it possible that these "bigger concerns" take more time than do the other small updates? Maybe while they are in fact working on these much larger patches, they are releasing some small ones. From a marketing point of view this seems like a very good choice of action considering the alternative is to make no changes at all until the major issues were addressed.
(Please keep in mind I am not an MMO player, but merely someone interested in the outcome of this game. I mean no offense if anything I say comes off as hostile.)
#20 Oct 13 2010 at 8:25 AM Rating: Good
***
1,021 posts
AttackOfTheBum wrote:

In your OPINION:

1) Do you think this will make the game more enjoyable?
2) Do you feel S-E is prioritizing issues correctly in the sense of what get patched first?
3) Will XIV keep and/or get back some of its subscribers with all these updates?
4) Is S-E listing to the community?
5) Is S-E handling the situation at hand well?


1) Marginally more enjoyable, but not nearly enough.

2) Mostly. They are clearly working on some of the most important problems I think such as SP distribution in parties (still messed up imo) and market ward fixes (needs more of a replacement than a bandaid). They haven't been too effective about addressing them so far. There was enough feedback in beta to identify these as problems, so I don't give them a free pass for the game being new. On the other hand, we get stuff like identifying bugs with macro equipping +1 items. I hope the resources used for things like that are ones that wouldn't be working on the serious problems anyway.

3) They'll keep a few, but not many. They won't get back any.

4) Somewhat. They seem to be listening to the major complaints of the players and working on them. They don't seem to be understanding that we want more information and that the seriousness of the situation. It is hard to tell when they are updating things so slowly (amount updated, not frequency of updates). It shouldn't take that long to change the names of the market wards.

5) NO! They aren't communicating their intentions well at all. Also, the recent random bannings that some people have been hit with are not helping. Those bannings and the way SE handled them reinforces my notion from FFXI that SE doesn't know how to listen or communicate with their customers. I was hoping they had learned that lesson from FFXI. Honestly, at this point, even if they fix the game and make it awesome, I'm not going to be playing it. I'm not investing my time in a game that does random bannings without even telling why; plus the game just isn't good imo.

I'm only still around because I'm recouping some of my CE investment by listening to the QQing on the boards (which is more fun than the game sadly). I was an idiot and thought retail would have more quests than beta did since SE is known for their stories, my mistake. Also, I'm paid up through Nov. 22 (my mistake again) and I'm curious what the population drop is going to be once the free month is over. I guess if SE makes dramatic changes I might reconsider, but I think it is very unlikely at this point.
#21 Oct 13 2010 at 8:27 AM Rating: Good
Sage
*
109 posts
AttackOfTheBum wrote:
Ksamim wrote:
2) Do you feel S-E is prioritizing issues correctly in the sense of what get patched first?
No. Definitely not. They are dealing with issues, of course, but the patches are very small and they also don't target the playerbase's biggest concerns, like interface, hotkeys, SP issues, etc. It's all very lackluster and frustrating.


Is it possible that these "bigger concerns" take more time than do the other small updates? Maybe while they are in fact working on these much larger patches, they are releasing some small ones. From a marketing point of view this seems like a very good choice of action considering the alternative is to make no changes at all until the major issues were addressed.
(Please keep in mind I am not an MMO player, but merely someone interested in the outcome of this game. I mean no offense if anything I say comes off as hostile.)

Thanks for changing the post title.

I agree that there is a time concern here, but this relates to my other answer, that communication is painfully insufficient. Additionally, there are many mechanics that can be implemented rather rapidly, such as the hotkey issue. Obviously, major overhauls take a lot of time, but press releases and communication of intent goes a long way to resolve these concerns. I believe that transparency is the only way to help SE in this situation.
____________________________
Into Memoria - FFXIV Free Company
#22 Oct 13 2010 at 8:32 AM Rating: Good
***
1,021 posts
Ksamim wrote:
Lots of these updates are very pleasant to see, but they feel so... Small, you know? I think if we were seeing huge changelogs, even if they didn't tackle a ton of the issues players have, it would make the playerbase feel a lot better about SE.


I feel the same way. Take for instance the planned market ward change. Ok, I know what 1 developer and 1 tester were doing for 1-2 weeks, but what were all the other ones doing? I'm a software developer by profession, if that was more than 1-2 weeks of developer time they have even more serious problems.
#23 Oct 13 2010 at 8:34 AM Rating: Decent
14 posts
Ksamim wrote:

Thanks for changing the post title.

I agree that there is a time concern here, but this relates to my other answer, that communication is painfully insufficient. Additionally, there are many mechanics that can be implemented rather rapidly, such as the hotkey issue. Obviously, major overhauls take a lot of time, but press releases and communication of intent goes a long way to resolve these concerns. I believe that transparency is the only way to help SE in this situation.


Thank you for the suggestion.

Why do you think S-E is so "closed" when it comes to press releases and whatnot?
#24 Oct 13 2010 at 8:36 AM Rating: Good
Sage
*
109 posts
RedHobbit wrote:
Ksamim wrote:
Lots of these updates are very pleasant to see, but they feel so... Small, you know? I think if we were seeing huge changelogs, even if they didn't tackle a ton of the issues players have, it would make the playerbase feel a lot better about SE.


I feel the same way. Take for instance the planned market ward change. Ok, I know what 1 developer and 1 tester were doing for 1-2 weeks, but what were all the other ones doing? I'm a software developer by profession, if that was more than 1-2 weeks of developer time they have even more serious problems.

I, too, am a software developer for architectures between mobile applications and provisioning software. If it took me, personally, two weeks to get a fix done like hotkeys or renaming market wards and altering the tax logic, I would be out on my behind looking for a new job.

Something tells me that they are doing tons of stuff, but that the program is so incredibly huge and was rushed in development, it might not be coded efficiently at all, and there are multiple locations where logic is redundant and must be changed at _each spot_ to make a universal change. It might just be a catastrophe on the source level.
____________________________
Into Memoria - FFXIV Free Company
#25 Oct 13 2010 at 8:46 AM Rating: Good
***
1,636 posts
AttackOfTheBum wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
2) Not really. I think they are addressing bugs and UI lag which are important, but I think its some of their design decisions that are hurting them more. Outside of the old EQ amd early FFXI players, not many people are willing to grind as much as this game currently requires.


Do you think that in their design decisions, S-E is just doing it wrong? Or are they in fact doing it another way?

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 10:26am by AttackOfTheBum


I just meant that alot of the innovations and key components of the game are just bad. Obviously alot are still good or I wouldn't care anymore. Personally I feel :

1) Heavy emphasis on crafting is going to hurt in the long run. Far more players are the type who want to go out and kill things. Right now, they have encouraged crafting, but I still feel that its a fairly small number of people who will actually take crafts to 50 and get endgame-ish items made. Because of the way repairs are done, they will also be responsible for repairs. Because the same crafters who are profiting off gear will be needed to repair items so that they will be sold. Potentailly the secondary market on gear will be very small. People can call me pessimistic for feeling it will go this way, however I feel its more likely than the optimistic "everyone cooperates" outcome.

2) Random Skillups are hurting alot of players. I for one will not even log in without my duo partner anymore. Soloing is a joke. The entire concept of Physical XP in this game is pointless and misleading. In fact I'd say it makes the games worse, because it ties stat allocations to the character, and not classes, which makes switching classes worse. Back on topic, If I kill a green dodo, I deserver X skill points. If I heal my party while they kill a yellow con crab, I deserve Y points. In a game with bland classes, where you're strongly encouraged to level multiple classes, its far too hard to skillup even one.

3) Classes are bland. FF's greatest strength to me was always its large number of (mostly) unique and interesting classes. Games like FF5, FFtactics, and even FFX-2 were awesome because of the variety of jobs available. Here we have 7 combat classes. Maybe its because each class is meant to be combined, but they really don't feel all that exciting and different from each other. Pug has evading skills, Marauder has parrying. Still feels like I'm activating the same ability.


Basically I just feel that the whole game is currently based around the grind. Everything is there to keep you moving at a slower pace. There isn't a big enough carrot at the end of the stick, I'm supposed to spend 6 months taking lancer to 50, so that I can spend 6 more months getting marauder there. Its almost like its asking you to reroll when you hit cap, only you get a "new game+" because you're stats are capped from having physical level pre-leveled.
____________________________


#26 Oct 13 2010 at 8:47 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
991 posts
AttackOfTheBum wrote:
Note: I have never played this game but I am very interested in the turn out. Yes, I have done my homework and know all about its fatal flaws as well and its strong points.

There has been an update at least once a week since the release of this game. With the promise of addressing the Marketing and Retainer issue for the Otc. 15 update, I have some questions.

In your OPINION:

1) Do you think this will make the game more enjoyable?
2) Do you feel S-E is prioritizing issues correctly in the sense of what get patched first?
3) Will XIV keep and/or get back some of its subscribers with all these updates?
4) Is S-E listing to the community?
5) Is S-E handling the situation at hand well?

Cheers

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 10:14am by AttackOfTheBum



1) The game will have many patches over a long period of time, this is just how MMOs are, and only 1 MMO has ever gone backwards with patching.
2) right now my understanding is the UI is the main concern, followed by various other things. UI lag is a pretty big thing on most peoples minds. I know its big for me.
3) Lets face facts here, every MMO has huge turnover after its first month, no matter which MMO it is, they all have it, period, this is just fact. If 10million people start out, 5million probably leave within the first 3 months. Its the long run of the game that determines real population, how they address things and so on.
4) yes
5) In my experience, making lots of public promises is actualy a bad thing, because when you dont live up to them, people through hissy fits and quit. So its easier to say "we are working on it" rather then give details. They seem to be doing more along those lines right now, which is just fine with me as I am used to that because its become the industry standard.

If you arent playing right now, it really cant hurt to wait a few months to see how the game turns out. Launches are never pretty, and i really do mean NEVER pretty. But a few months in you can see how the game will truely shape out.
____________________________


#27 Oct 13 2010 at 8:48 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
440 posts
Is there an update right now? I can't seem to load any of the SE Account log in pages.

secure.square-enix.com/account/

Doesn't load at all for me.
#28 Oct 13 2010 at 11:27 AM Rating: Good
**
782 posts
Quote:
1) Heavy emphasis on crafting is going to hurt in the long run.


The only reason there is such a heavy emphasis on crafting at this stage is because without it there would be almost NOTHING as far as items in the game go. In my eyes this is not a valid complaint. The only other option is that all equipment is simply available for everyone right off the bat... then crafting my as well be scrapped all together.

In the real world when a new B&M M&P type shop opens up they generally don't have much on their shelves the first few days of being open because unlike a big chain they don't have the resources to let the shelves sit full paying people for several weeks before opening the doors to the general public. Would you go in and be ****** that they were still unpacking and shelving their widgets?

There has to be a heavy emphasis on crafting at this point in the game because without it there would be NOTHING. Give it 5 months and the complaints will turn into, "I can't craft because the cost of entering the market is too high and none of my level 1 junk synths are worth anything! All I can do is NPC the for a huge loss QQ"
#29 Oct 13 2010 at 11:44 AM Rating: Good
***
1,636 posts
windexy wrote:
Quote:
1) Heavy emphasis on crafting is going to hurt in the long run.


The only reason there is such a heavy emphasis on crafting at this stage is because without it there would be almost NOTHING as far as items in the game go. In my eyes this is not a valid complaint. The only other option is that all equipment is simply available for everyone right off the bat... then crafting my as well be scrapped all together.

In the real world when a new B&M M&P type shop opens up they generally don't have much on their shelves the first few days of being open because unlike a big chain they don't have the resources to let the shelves sit full paying people for several weeks before opening the doors to the general public. Would you go in and be ****** that they were still unpacking and shelving their widgets?

There has to be a heavy emphasis on crafting at this point in the game because without it there would be NOTHING. Give it 5 months and the complaints will turn into, "I can't craft because the cost of entering the market is too high and none of my level 1 junk synths are worth anything! All I can do is NPC the for a huge loss QQ"


I know about the shortage of gear with a new game. My concern was regarding supply of high end gear, cost/availability of repairs, and small secondary market. My worry is that there will be say 20 top level armorers and 500 top level people needing them for repairs. I also think people will keep/vendor gear rather than repair and sell it when they are done.
____________________________


#30 Oct 13 2010 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
2,742 posts
RayneZ wrote:
Is there an update right now? I can't seem to load any of the SE Account log in pages.

secure.square-enix.com/account/

Doesn't load at all for me.


Just checked right now, loads fine for me

https://secure.square-enix.com/account/app/svc/login?cont=account
____________________________
FFXIV: Karamethien Seraphus (Blog)

FFXI: Karamethien
Still a Seraph Samurai Wanna Be
Fishing AF - Complete, SAM AF - Complete, RNG Af - Complete, RDM AF - 1/6
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 15 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (15)