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Local Leves, if you think about itFollow

#1 Oct 13 2010 at 9:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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I've seen alot of people complain over and over again about two aspects of crafting in this game:

1) Local Leves just don't give many skill points once you get past level 10

2) With so many people crafting, the market is flooded with low level items

But when you think about it, these two points should actually cancel each other out (well, sort of). For a crafter like me, I pretty much don't craft unless I'm doing a local leve. I don't just grind items. Because of this, I get to level my crafts while not putting ANY items into the economy. And it works out perfectly for me.

Sure, some people who are looking to plow through crafting and just level level level will not have the same effect. But for the many of us that only craft when doing local leves, I think SE actually had it thought out pretty well.

edit: I guess to clarify, I'm not saying I don't get good skill doing local leves. In fact, I don't think I've ever crafted anything NOT for a local leve (with the exception of cooking some crayfish into river sand). The point I was trying to make is that, to use FFXI as an example, when you had tons of people leveling woodworking, there were thousands of stupid low level items because you just had to churn them out over and over and over. With local leves, all that stuff you create doesn't flood the market. And you don't have to spend your own money (well, crystals).

Just one more way SE made crafting more like combat classes.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 11:12am by striveldt
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#2 Oct 13 2010 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
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Doing a rank 20 leve at 18 got me around 530+ each skillup and i only botched one out of the 3 20 leves I had :) Altogether I gained 6k skillups off of all my 8 leves
#3 Oct 13 2010 at 9:18 AM Rating: Good
Local leves give tons of skill points right the way up through rank 25 (which is the highest rank local leve I'm able to do right now.) This is especially true if you've got some delicious crafting gear that lets you complete local leves that are higher than your actual rank. I upgraded my armorer's crafting gear over the weekend and was doing rank 25 local leves at rank 21 and getting 500 skill points (give or take) per successful synth. If you're doing rank 1 local leves at rank 10, obviously the skill gains aren't going to be that great.

I don't hear too many people complaining that the market is flooded with much of anything (except for retainers in the wards that are loaded down with vendor trash.) If anything, people are glossing over the fact that lower rank gear is more accessible now because if they acknowledged it, they'd have one less thing to ***** about.
#4 Oct 13 2010 at 9:52 AM Rating: Good
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If you do all 8 leves on one craft and DO leves near or above your rank with guild support you can easily get 400+ per.
#5 Oct 13 2010 at 9:57 AM Rating: Decent
mpmaley wrote:
If you do all 8 leves on one craft and DO leves near or above your rank with guild support you can easily get 400+ per.


I really wish people would stop recommending facility support for everything. It makes no difference whatsoever unless the recipe recommends it. If the recipe recommends it, it makes a huge difference. If not, you're just wasting your gil (and your time if you're running to a camp for support because the guild you require is in a different city). You'd be better off investing that gil into better crafting gear with +craft, +mag craft and/or +control. That makes a far more substantial difference than talking to an NPC and spending gil you don't need to every 5-6 synths.
#6 Oct 13 2010 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I really wish people would stop recommending facility support for everything. It makes no difference whatsoever unless the recipe recommends it. If the recipe recommends it, it makes a huge difference. If not, you're just wasting your gil (and your time if you're running to a camp for support because the guild you require is in a different city). You'd be better off investing that gil into better crafting gear with +craft, +mag craft and/or +control. That makes a far more substantial difference than talking to an NPC and spending gil you don't need to every 5-6 synths.


What is your evidence for this?

Mine is being able to get quality of 550+ on rank 1 and rank 5 leves. I can't get that high without support.

edit:
I can do rank 20 leves with support right now but I can't do it without.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 12:02pm by mpmaley
#7 Oct 13 2010 at 10:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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That's only partially true Aurelius.

While you don't need it for many synths, it can allow you to over-reach your Rank limitations and successfully complete synths that give you more skil points than the synths you can complete without support.

This is markedly true at Rank 10. Unless you have the materials for the few rank 8 synths, you eihter have to slowly grind out Rank 1 synths, or you can get Guild support and start cranking out Rank 11 synths for great skill-ups.

You are right that it is not necessary for a bulk of synths. After you try a synth and come close but fail, that is when you get the support.

To the OP, Local leves give you great skill ups as you start being able to complete the ones closer to your Rank. From what I've found, you will fail Rank 10 Local Leves at Rank 10. Even with support it is dicey.

Start attempting the Rank 10's arouns Rank 12, get the support only if you are having trouble. These will give you 400~500 skill.
#8 Oct 13 2010 at 10:13 AM Rating: Decent
mpmaley wrote:
Quote:
I really wish people would stop recommending facility support for everything. It makes no difference whatsoever unless the recipe recommends it. If the recipe recommends it, it makes a huge difference. If not, you're just wasting your gil (and your time if you're running to a camp for support because the guild you require is in a different city). You'd be better off investing that gil into better crafting gear with +craft, +mag craft and/or +control. That makes a far more substantial difference than talking to an NPC and spending gil you don't need to every 5-6 synths.


What is your evidence for this?

Mine is being able to get quality of 550+ on rank 1 and rank 5 leves. I can't get that high without support.


I can get 80+ quality from one successful Bold synthesis without support. With the right abilities equipped and a little luck you could conceivably get over 800 quality.

My evidence is hundreds of synths on a character with armorer at 22, weaver at 21, and everything else (except cooking) between rank 12 and 15. I've tried the same synth dozens of times with support (Master) until I finally got sick of exiting the crafting interface to talk to an NPC after every 5-6 synths and tried going without and it made absolutely no difference to my outcomes. Not one bit. My quality/synth remained the same, my durability loss and progress gains remained the same, and my overall success rate didn't seem to change at all.

It's not XI, guy. That's the primary reason everyone is picking up facility support for everything...because that's what they did in XI and it helped in XI so why not in XIV, right? Lots of people doing silly things because they come across something that reminds them of XI so they insist that the XI way is right. In this case, it's clearly not.
#9 Oct 13 2010 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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I can't do rank 20 now. I get support and I can do rank 20 and get 550+ per craft. Considering the leve PAYS for itself, I'm going to keep doing this to get the most out of my 8 leves.
#10 Oct 13 2010 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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mpmaley wrote:

What is your evidence for this?

Mine is being able to get quality of 550+ on rank 1 and rank 5 leves. I can't get that high without support.

edit:
I can do rank 20 leves with support right now but I can't do it without.


I don't find that Quality or your Assessment from the NPC play a very big role in Skill-ups or Leve Rewards. Getting huge Quality numbers on Rank 1~5 leves does not increase skill-ups.

I would say save your money and time. Crank through the lower Rank Leves using Standard > Standard > Standard and get the same 150~250 skill points as would have gotten for a higher quality.

This may change when the percentage increase for high Assessment in Leve Rewards become more significant. But a 10% bonus on a 500 gil reward is peanuts.

Does that sound right to you? I wouldn't mind hearing some conflicting observations to this strategy.
#11 Oct 13 2010 at 10:19 AM Rating: Decent
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If you get over 150 quality or so (I usually aim for 200), I get double the shards, more gil, and an extra item (has been copper nuggets so far). I have over 100 copper nuggets from doing well on rank 1 and rank 5 leves.

edit: I don't Bold through a whole rank 1 or rank 5 leve for skillups. I do it for the extra rewards. Getting free copper nuggets on 5 or 6 rank1/rank5 leves (when I had no more higher ones for blacksmith on a day) has saved me at least 8 fire crystals and a ton of copper b/c I won't need to make copper nuggets....for a VERY long time.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 12:21pm by mpmaley
#12 Oct 13 2010 at 10:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Nice Aurelius. Congrats on Rank 22. That IS alot of synths.

Did you ever hit a period where you coudn't get success without guild support?
#13 Oct 13 2010 at 10:28 AM Rating: Good
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mpmaley wrote:
If you get over 150 quality or so (I usually aim for 200), I get double the shards, more gil, and an extra item (has been copper nuggets so far). I have over 100 copper nuggets from doing well on rank 1 and rank 5 leves.

edit: I don't Bold through a whole rank 1 or rank 5 leve for skillups. I do it for the extra rewards. Getting free copper nuggets on 5 or 6 rank1/rank5 leves (when I had no more higher ones for blacksmith on a day) has saved me at least 8 fire crystals and a ton of copper b/c I won't need to make copper nuggets....for a VERY long time.


I'm not sure a handful of shards, a tiny bit of gil and copper nuggets are worth the time. Maybe later on when the rewards are heftier, like extra crystals, percentage increase on a higher amount of gil, and some material that is not copper nuggets.

But I do hear what you are saying and I'm considering it. If the bonus actually pays for the support, then hellya. There will come a time when this is true, I predict.

What Aurelius is saying about stopping to talk to the NPC in the middle of a synthfest is true.

In fact, I like to grab the materials and run far-far away from camp, so I get less lag and only have to listen to my own "Tinking". Going back to the NPC is not an option really.
#14 Oct 13 2010 at 10:33 AM Rating: Decent
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I can get in 5 crafts on one trip to the NPC and I don't walk far, so it's worth it to me.

Yea, I don't like rank 1/rank 5 leves. But sometimes it's all I have left and I don't feel like going to Grid to check the leves there so I'll just do the rank1/5 offered to me in LL to get an extra 500-1.2k SP and some items.
#15 Oct 13 2010 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
RufuSwho wrote:
Nice Aurelius. Congrats on Rank 22. That IS alot of synths.

Did you ever hit a period where you coudn't get success without guild support?


Never. I hit a period where I had a hard time getting success with non-crafting gear. As soon as I upgraded a couple of key pieces it smoothed out unbelievably. As I mentioned elsewhere, I went from having a rough time with rank 20 local leves at rank 21 to blasting through rank 25 leves at rank 21. It was a night and day difference, and the only time I've ever seen that kind of difference with support is when I was attempting recipes that recommended it. If a recipe recommends Common support and you're at or below the "ideal" rank for the synthesis, just getting that support will make a dramatic difference.

When I'm making Bronze Wire, for example (recommended Guild facility support), I generally consider it to be a waste of shards/materials to even attempt without the support. When I switch over to Bronze Rings made from that wire (no recommended support facilities) there is absolutely no difference whatsoever in outcome whether I go with no support or Common/Guild/Master. I've tried it with Guild facility support left over from making the wire. No difference in outcome when the support wore off. I've tried it with Master support when I was still failing more often than I would have liked to and finally got sick of throwing gil down the toilet when my success rate didn't improve at all. And I've tried it with Common support for the same reason, rationalizing that if it helped at all, 200g every 10 minutes was better than 1000g. Still no observable difference.

And keep in mind that when I make Bronze Wire, I don't just stop after one synth (yields 12 wire). I make a several of them (typically 48-60). Then I convert those to rings. Then I convert those rings to sheets. Then I convert those sheets to Bronze Haubergeons with a few other mats. Then I convert those Haubergeons to gil. Sometimes I can't get it all done in one sitting, but when you look at the number of synths involved where I'm just doing one after another after another, that's where I draw my evidence from.

What is happening, as mentioned, is that people are seeing something that resembles something familiar to them from XI and it totally borks their objectivity. Instead of looking at things to try and figure out how they work, they're looking at things trying to prove that they work the way they think they should. That's bad "science", as it were, and produces conclusions that are highly unreliable without hard numbers to back them up.
#16 Oct 13 2010 at 10:47 AM Rating: Default
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Yes, I have nothing to back up what I've said, besides the fact that I've done it, I'll leave this thread now, b/c I don't count for anything.
#17 Oct 13 2010 at 10:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ah, thanks very much Aurelius.

The Bronze Wire is actually the one synth that I was referring to. I did not pay attention to the recommended support, but should have. No wonder I was seeing the difference in success rates there.

After seeing that, I just started getting support for the Bronze Ring synth too, which you are saying I don't need. Seems to be true, because I was making Bronze Chain out of the rings for the Rank 10 Gridania Leve (Spoiled Sheets) with no support and no problems.

While making my own Bronze Chains I was also getting support I probably didn't need.

Thanks to you, I will be paying much closer attention to the Recommended Support.

This has been one of the best conversations about crafting I've had yet on the ZAM forum. Thanks for spending some time to share your observations.
#18 Oct 13 2010 at 10:55 AM Rating: Good
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Unlike 11 the crafting gear makes a huge difference in 14. While I don't have any experience with other crafts, it is a noticeable difference, without a parser, for fishing.
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#19 Oct 13 2010 at 10:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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mpmaley wrote:
Yes, I have nothing to back up what I've said, besides the fact that I've done it, I'll leave this thread now, b/c I don't count for anything.


Wut? You are taking your Doming Hammer and going home?

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you, just having a discussion and your thoughts are most welcome!
#20 Oct 13 2010 at 11:08 AM Rating: Decent
mpmaley wrote:
Yes, I have nothing to back up what I've said, besides the fact that I've done it, I'll leave this thread now, b/c I don't count for anything.


You're doing what so many other people are doing...you're taking a narrow field of samples and holding them up as proof of something they don't prove. If I were to base my entire approach to crafting off of what I encounter over the span of 5-6 synths, I'd be screwed. I can botch...and I mean utterly botch...a synthesis that I've done easily dozens of times before because the random number generator was angry with me. I was doing it last night with the previously mentioned rank 25 leves. I'd complete two synths with relative ease and then the next one was FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL. Solid orbs, Fulfillment/Maker's Muse/Preserve used as appropriate, and still most actions failed. And the one after that? Relative ease. So let's say I got the uber-botch synth off the top and said, "Hmmm...maybe I'll try support even though it doesn't recommend it" and got the relative ease synth right after, guess what conclusion I might be inclined to draw? That it was the support that helped, right? Except that it wasn't. It would have been me drawing a conclusion from a very limited amount of experience, not accounting for the random aspect, and then if I were to come here and post of my "proof" I'd be misleading people.

I talk to a lot of people in the game who observe something once, make an assumption, and hold that assumption to be truth. It takes a fair bit more than that to arrive at meaningful conclusions. That's all I'm saying, and that my experience is that unless a recipe recommends support, I've found no evidence to suggest that getting support creates any kind of benefit.
#21 Oct 13 2010 at 11:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Wut? You are taking your Doming Hammer and going home?

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you, just having a discussion and your thoughts are most welcome


I'm bad at walking away.

I cannot do a rank 20 leve right now. 5 tries, I will blow all 5 attempts with ease, I did this last night with 2 myself. If however, I have master guild support I can do it with ease. This isn't just 2 cases, I can go back to when I was Rank 10 trying rank 15 leves or rank 5 trying rank 10 leves. I've seen this on my blacksmith, armorer and alchemist. Then I talk to people in my LS and they say they've seen the same thing so they get support on higher leves to help them complete. The fact that I can't do a rank 20 leve at all but can glide past it with ease is enough evidence for me. Not just a "oh, look this happened ONCE", but repeatedly.

How do you say he's not disagreeing w/ me when he's throwing everything I say back in my face and in a polite way calling me stupid.

Quote:
Unlike 11 the crafting gear makes a huge difference in 14. While I don't have any experience with other crafts, it is a noticeable difference, without a parser, for fishing.


Yes yes yes.

The first time I upgraded my blacksmith hammer I was floored with the results. That was JUST the hammer.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 1:49pm by mpmaley
#22 Oct 13 2010 at 11:56 AM Rating: Good
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My problem isn't that the leves don't give good skill, it's that I can't seem to find any rank 20 leves at all. My lists in all the cities are cluttered with rank 1/5/10 leves. I'm generally lucky to get two rank 20s by visiting all three cities. The skill for them is great on the rare occasion they show up.

I've seen some people already at rank 35 in crafting classes so I figured I'm just unlucky.
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#23 Oct 13 2010 at 11:56 AM Rating: Good
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Great thread... and interesting conclusions people are drawing. I was under the impression that support was helpful regardless, but I am now questioning that. I'll take a closer look at it.

I really want to craft now. Unfortunately - I'm at work.

Bleh.
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#24 Oct 13 2010 at 12:10 PM Rating: Good
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I have a question that maybe could be answered here.

What if you have absolutley nothing in your off-hand? Does that change success rate?

I've bought just the main hand Tool for all the classes and of course have a very easy time with lower level synths.

For Armorer though, I bought the Bronze Pliers (Off-hand Tool) even though I never use them. I equip them in my macro (and they take up an inventory spot) even though I doubt they do anything at all. I figure it's worth equipping even if it's just a 1% success increase. I would drop them off at my retainer if I could prove somehow they they had no impact at all on Main-hand synths.

mpmaley, don't worry too much about Aurelius, he has always had a no-nonsense approach to his posts (hope you don't mind me saying so, Aurelius). I see that you are disagreeing about the effectiveness of synth support. In reality, hearing both of your observations gives the best overall picture.

I think the main thrust of Aurelius comments is not about synth support, but rather about the pitfalls of taking a small group of obsevations and basing all future actions on those. It can actually be applied to his own posts as well. Even after 22 Ranks of Armorer there is much much more to be learned about crafting!

I have to agree always that keeping an open mind is the best route. And the point about the Random Number Generator throwing off our synth comparisons is valid to a considerable extent. You could even have 5 synths in a row that just aren't indicative of your real overall success rate for a Recipe vs. Rank.

There is no doubt that Support increases your success rate, as well as marginally increasing rewards. It's also not as important or necessary as some people are proclaiming.

It's great to see a real crafting conversation! I can't wait to get home tonight. I have all the mats for my first Haubergeon and was waiting to hit Rank 15 to attempt it. So close. You can bet I will get Master Support for the first attempt.

Aurelius, what rank did you succesfully make your first Hauby?
#25 Oct 13 2010 at 12:18 PM Rating: Default
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I started to do as you did.

Macro main and off hand in when I switched to a crafting class. However, since I upgraded my tools I re did my macros and retainer'ed my off hands. I haven't seen anything that would indicate it was a big switch, but I haven't been looking to compare.

The only thing I've heard is that off hand for parts main hand for finished goods, and that was only rumblings. I use my main hand for everything now and can get 500+ quality on parts that are low enough still so I'm keeping my inventory with a few less pieces on me.
#26 Oct 13 2010 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
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Getting back to what I think was the original point of this thread for just a second, I have to say I appreciate the free mats for local leves as well. If you fail the synth, you aren't out the cost of the items like in FFXI. The only time you ever have to pay for something is if a guild facility is required, and that's only 100-200 gil unless you decide to use the master facility at 500 gil for whatever reason.

The only thing that bothers me is when the guildleve masters repeatedly offer rank 10 leves when your rank is barely at a 5. I have 3 characters right now during the free trial and all 3 of them keep getting hung up on rank 10 leves, which usually fail as others have mentioned...so I just don't accept them. Also, 2 of my characters are never really offered any Armorer leves besides the 1st tutorial ones.

Does anyone know if there is a trick to getting the guildleve masters to offer a better variety of leves? I know you can wait 36 hours for a new set to come out, but seriously I've been checking every 36 hours for the past 2 weeks. I've even retried "A Mother's Foundry" and "Momodi's Sturdy Suits" a few times but the NPC's still haven't taken the hint...
#27 Oct 13 2010 at 12:24 PM Rating: Decent
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RufuSwho wrote:

It's great to see a real crafting conversation! I can't wait to get home tonight. I have all the mats for my first Haubergeon and was waiting to hit Rank 15 to attempt it. So close. You can bet I will get Master Support for the first attempt.

Aurelius, what rank did you succesfully make your first Hauby?



RufoSwho, I don't want to mean this in a bad way. But Maybe give it a few more levels. I was in your position once. I wanted that Haubergeon soooo bad I attempted it 3 times before I got a successful synthesis. Tried it at 15, 17, and eventually made one at 19. Even broke 2 more at level 20 & 21. I just want to let you know that don't feel bad after a break. It hits you hard if you made all the materials for it. I personally used synth support up until level 20. Then realized it really did nothing so my last two Hauby synths for friends of mine I did without support at level 21.

I wish you well on your hauby synthesis. But don't expect it to be an easy one. Just remember to keep trying when you break and when you succeed then it will all be worth it!

On the topic of the thread..

Ive been watching Aurelius and his thoughts on crafting. He has came up with the usual conclusions I've ran into with my few months of experience crafting. I know he has been crafting longer and harder then I have. I highly recommend many of you to listen to what he says. He is pretty much right on the money. But thank you Aurelius for coming out in the Zam community to share your experiences. It will help many crafters now and in the future.
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#28 Oct 13 2010 at 12:25 PM Rating: Default
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Aurelius do you consider it a waste to try bronze nuggets b/c you can't get Smelting until rank 20?
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/guide/recipe.html?classId=B&rankId=1

I HQ'ed-2 them for the first time at rank 15 (really the first time I tried).

Again, Iron Nuggets ask for guild support.
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/guide/recipe.html?classId=B&rankId=2

Someone was shouting for someone out by a crystal so I tried it for the first time w/ no guild support and made them, not easy but I didn't fail any. I thought it was great that I could make them so I used the rest of the Limonite I had on me for him and was able to get each one. YG says it's a rank 18 recipe so as I'm below the rank should I really need the guild support to get it? But I could still get it done.

And yes, I know these are 2 examples with few repetitions but I've easily made hundreds of bronze nuggets now with no Smelting. But stuff like this, stuff I've posted all before, it adds up that facilities are just straight help.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 2:31pm by mpmaley
#29 Oct 13 2010 at 12:28 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Getting back to what I think was the original point of this thread for just a second, I have to say I appreciate the free mats for local leves as well. If you fail the synth, you aren't out the cost of the items like in FFXI. The only time you ever have to pay for something is if a guild facility is required, and that's only 100-200 gil unless you decide to use the master facility at 500 gil for whatever reason.

The only thing that bothers me is when the guildleve masters repeatedly offer rank 10 leves when your rank is barely at a 5. I have 3 characters right now during the free trial and all 3 of them keep getting hung up on rank 10 leves, which usually fail as others have mentioned...so I just don't accept them. Also, 2 of my characters are never really offered any Armorer leves besides the 1st tutorial ones.

Does anyone know if there is a trick to getting the guildleve masters to offer a better variety of leves? I know you can wait 36 hours for a new set to come out, but seriously I've been checking every 36 hours for the past 2 weeks. I've even retried "A Mother's Foundry" and "Momodi's Sturdy Suits" a few times but the NPC's still haven't taken the hint...


I haven't heard anything that could allow you to direct your leves to a certain direction.

Are you checking other cities as well?
#30 Oct 13 2010 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent
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I plan to do that today. I try not to use too much Anima in one day so I don't end up shouting for teleports later on. I've seen people shout for hours on my server before finally giving up, so anima conservation is not something I take lightly. I think this might be worth it though to get some better leves.
#31 Oct 13 2010 at 12:54 PM Rating: Default
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LL to Ul'dah is not that far. You can bounce between the two. FYI, if you're ONLY doing crafting leves you can do this:

Start in LL, set your homepoint to LL. Run to Ul'dah and do all the local leves you want. Die to mobs and use return. You're back in LL.
#32 Oct 13 2010 at 2:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Anyone noticed that certain leves regularly have better rewards than other ones?

I do most of my crafting out of Ul'Dah, and the Momodi's series of local leves generally gives me rewards that are better than anything else I'm offered. Cotton bolls where everything else is moko grass, brass ingots where everything else is bronze or copper ingots, dodo skins instead of sheep skins...

(Go go broad spectrum crafting! Every craft but cooking to 10...)
#33 Oct 13 2010 at 3:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I've noticed that about the rewards too. I think they do that because all the Momodi/Baderon/Mionne leves always say rank 1 (because they are the equivalent to the regional tutorial leves), so they want to give players an incentive to repeat them once their rank is higher. Or maybe because it helps in some situations where the tutorial leve is repetedly the only leve offered for that class (sound familiar?).

All the other leves change the rewards in proportion to the rank requirements, though. Each leve should have a base reward (like Moko Grass) for doing the easiest objective. Sometimes you will be offered the same leve but with a harder objective, and the reward will change to something like Cotton Bolls. Maybe your guildleve master is stuck like mine and isn't giving you better leves? What seems to be throwing me off is the order that they offer the leves to you. It doesn't help to be offered more rank 10 leves that reward you with Cotton Bolls if you're rank 5 and can't complete them. I'd rather be offered rank 5 leves and take my Moko Grass so I can at least skill up.
#34 Oct 13 2010 at 3:48 PM Rating: Good
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Sir Zalim wrote:
RufuSwho wrote:

It's great to see a real crafting conversation! I can't wait to get home tonight. I have all the mats for my first Haubergeon and was waiting to hit Rank 15 to attempt it. So close. You can bet I will get Master Support for the first attempt.

Aurelius, what rank did you succesfully make your first Hauby?



RufoSwho, I don't want to mean this in a bad way. But Maybe give it a few more levels. I was in your position once. I wanted that Haubergeon soooo bad I attempted it 3 times before I got a successful synthesis. Tried it at 15, 17, and eventually made one at 19. Even broke 2 more at level 20 & 21. I just want to let you know that don't feel bad after a break. It hits you hard if you made all the materials for it. I personally used synth support up until level 20. Then realized it really did nothing so my last two Hauby synths for friends of mine I did without support at level 21.

I wish you well on your hauby synthesis. But don't expect it to be an easy one. Just remember to keep trying when you break and when you succeed then it will all be worth it!

On the topic of the thread..

Ive been watching Aurelius and his thoughts on crafting. He has came up with the usual conclusions I've ran into with my few months of experience crafting. I know he has been crafting longer and harder then I have. I highly recommend many of you to listen to what he says. He is pretty much right on the money. But thank you Aurelius for coming out in the Zam community to share your experiences. It will help many crafters now and in the future.


This is exactly the info I was looking for, thanks so much!

Sounds like I would be best off trying the first Hauby synth at 19. It's amazing how much 1 Rank matters to crafting.

If I understand what you are saying, getting support at 19 is not very likely to help (since it's not specifically required). I can see where people would just get it anyway, considering the relative cost.

Thanks again.
#35 Oct 13 2010 at 3:56 PM Rating: Good
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I just reread the entire thread in light of what Sir Zalim said.

I was really missing the point.

Support makes no difference at all unless the synth asks for it.

Wow. I'm going to have to let that sink in.
#36 Oct 13 2010 at 4:06 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
mpmaley wrote:
If you do all 8 leves on one craft and DO leves near or above your rank with guild support you can easily get 400+ per.


I really wish people would stop recommending facility support for everything. It makes no difference whatsoever unless the recipe recommends it. If the recipe recommends it, it makes a huge difference. If not, you're just wasting your gil (and your time if you're running to a camp for support because the guild you require is in a different city). You'd be better off investing that gil into better crafting gear with +craft, +mag craft and/or +control. That makes a far more substantial difference than talking to an NPC and spending gil you don't need to every 5-6 synths.


1.5k gil per 5 synths isn't that bad, having 33.33% chance of success on a r25 recipe at r18 isn't bad at all.
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#37 Oct 13 2010 at 4:53 PM Rating: Good
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I agree 110% with JamesX.
Crafting gear is a huge factor. Before I could make some decent pieces of crafting gear for myself I frequently failed on synths even if they were just 1 level higher than my current skill no matter if I used guild support or not.
Now I can do synths with relative ease even if they are 2-3 levels above my current skill.

Now I'd just like to know which stat is the best for crafting gear and what it does.
Control?
Craftsmanship?
Mag. Craftsmanship?

I've only seen speculations about these.
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#38 Oct 13 2010 at 4:57 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
I just reread the entire thread in light of what Sir Zalim said.

I was really missing the point.

Support makes no difference at all unless the synth asks for it.

Wow. I'm going to have to let that sink in.


And again, everything I say is nonsense and ignored.
#39 Oct 13 2010 at 5:59 PM Rating: Decent
8 posts
Now,I don't understand something here.. maybe the game just hates me. People seem to be getting rank20 leves with high frequency. At level 19 leatherworking, I may get a rank 20 once every few resets. Mostly, I can only choose from the same old rank1, 5, and 10 leves. What gives?
#40 Oct 13 2010 at 7:41 PM Rating: Default
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Do you travel to the other 2 cities?
#41 Oct 13 2010 at 10:46 PM Rating: Decent
RufuSwho wrote:
I have a question that maybe could be answered here.

What if you have absolutley nothing in your off-hand? Does that change success rate?

I've bought just the main hand Tool for all the classes and of course have a very easy time with lower level synths.


Based on what SE has said, tool selection primarily only impacts your ability to get HQ results. Realistically speaking, best practice is to use your best tool (ie. highest stats) for everything and leave it at that. The way the rank (and cost) spread works for offhand tools right now, you'll pretty much always be using your main hand tool.

I crafted my first bronze hauby at rank 16 but it was dicey. I just churned out 3 tonight and two of them were still a bit too close for comfort. That's at rank 22 and I'm just making them for the gil to keep myself stocked with shards while I crank through mountains of iron skilling up and setting mats aside for iron haubergeons.
#42 Oct 13 2010 at 10:50 PM Rating: Default
mpmaley wrote:
Aurelius do you consider it a waste to try bronze nuggets b/c you can't get Smelting until rank 20?
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/guide/recipe.html?classId=B&rankId=1

I HQ'ed-2 them for the first time at rank 15 (really the first time I tried).


That was really uncalled for since I haven't referenced the training at all. If you're so upset that I'm challenging your statements that you need to reach that far afield for something to argue over, maybe we should just call it quits. You post your findings and I'll post mine. I'm not playing butthurt QQ games over this.
#43 Oct 14 2010 at 9:39 AM Rating: Decent
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3,178 posts
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
use your best tool (ie. highest stats) for everything and leave it at that.


Yep.

The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
iron haubergeons


Ha! You said iron haubergeons. I knew this was coming. Searching shows that this recipe is not easy to find. I suppose people are not sharing their recipes quite yet. Comes from completing higher level leves?

If you figure it out and want to share, please do!

Other things I've seen are the Reinforced Bronze Mitts and the Iron Scutum. I know you can buy from NPC, but I'm thinking the the synth for the Iron Shortsword (Blacksmith) should be possible.

#44 Oct 14 2010 at 9:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
That was really uncalled for since I haven't referenced the training at all. If you're so upset that I'm challenging your statements that you need to reach that far afield for something to argue over, maybe we should just call it quits. You post your findings and I'll post mine. I'm not playing butthurt QQ games over this.


It was a legitimate question.

They have recipes on the site like Iron Nuggets that call for advanced guild support that are a rank 18 synth that I could do repeatedly at rank 16. Why can these recipes be done without what the Lodestone suggests then? Because it's just a suggestion, yes. But it doesn't line up with it needing it, but more it's just a flat out help on top.

Has anyone looked at their crafting stats before and after getting support? I'm going to do this tonight.

And currently I use whatever the highest tool I have is.

edit: I wonder who's sending all my posts in this thread that have NOTHING to do with this discussion to default, LOL.

Some real bad information in these posts, completely warrant being sent to default, this system makes no sense sometimes:
Quote:
Do you travel to the other 2 cities?


Quote:
LL to Ul'dah is not that far. You can bounce between the two. FYI, if you're ONLY doing crafting leves you can do this:
Start in LL, set your homepoint to LL. Run to Ul'dah and do all the local leves you want. Die to mobs and use return. You're back in LL.


Quote:
I haven't heard anything that could allow you to direct your leves to a certain direction.
Are you checking other cities as well?


Quote:
I started to do as you did.
Macro main and off hand in when I switched to a crafting class. However, since I upgraded my tools I re did my macros and retainer'ed my off hands. I haven't seen anything that would indicate it was a big switch, but I haven't been looking to compare.
The only thing I've heard is that off hand for parts main hand for finished goods, and that was only rumblings. I use my main hand for everything now and can get 500+ quality on parts that are low enough still so I'm keeping my inventory with a few less pieces on me.


Edited, Oct 14th 2010 11:47am by mpmaley
#45 Oct 14 2010 at 10:27 AM Rating: Decent
RufuSwho wrote:
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
use your best tool (ie. highest stats) for everything and leave it at that.


Yep.

The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
iron haubergeons


Ha! You said iron haubergeons. I knew this was coming. Searching shows that this recipe is not easy to find. I suppose people are not sharing their recipes quite yet. Comes from completing higher level leves?

If you figure it out and want to share, please do!

Other things I've seen are the Reinforced Bronze Mitts and the Iron Scutum. I know you can buy from NPC, but I'm thinking the the synth for the Iron Shortsword (Blacksmith) should be possible.



The recipe for iron haubergeon is out there. Yellow Goblin has it. It's basically a bronze haubergeon only instead of bronze chain pieces it uses iron, undyed canvas instead of cotton cloth, and dodo leather strap instead of sheep leather strap. A bit spendy to make if you can't whip up your own undyed canvas, but the only reason I pushed weaver to 21 is so that I can...make my own undyed canvas >.<
#46 Oct 14 2010 at 10:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Reinforced Bronze Mitts


This recipe is readily available on loadestone. Its the same as the regular bronze mitts but with the copper sheet replaced with bronze.

Iron Haub shouldn't be hard to figure out.

Based on the description I'm going to go out on a limb and say you need, canvas cloth, buffalo leather strap, iron vest, iron arms, iron chain, and some sort of buckle. I would guess silver, or darksteel.
#47 Oct 14 2010 at 10:37 AM Rating: Decent
mpmaley wrote:
Quote:
That was really uncalled for since I haven't referenced the training at all. If you're so upset that I'm challenging your statements that you need to reach that far afield for something to argue over, maybe we should just call it quits. You post your findings and I'll post mine. I'm not playing butthurt QQ games over this.


It was a legitimate question.


No it wasn't. Nobody in this thread was discussing the training options at all, yet you bring it up as if you're disproving something or discrediting someone. You're whining about people challenging your ideas and now you're whining about being rated down. Stop it. It's not about the e-peen, sport. You bring your ideas to the table and sometimes they get shot down. If you're going to get butthurt over it, you just make it worse for yourself.

Quote:
They have recipes on the site like Iron Nuggets that call for advanced guild support that are a rank 18 synth that I could do repeatedly at rank 16. Why can these recipes be done without what the Lodestone suggests then? Because it's just a suggestion, yes. But it doesn't line up with it needing it, but more it's just a flat out help on top.


Yellow Goblin lists them as a rank 15 synth, and they're a synth I've been doing with my blacksmith since rank 14 with the recommended Guild support. So you can do a rank 15 synth at rank 16 without the recommended support. I can't say that proves much, and I really don't know why you've decided to try and take the angle of discrediting the benefit of using the recommended support. Seems to me like you're scrambling to save face. The best way to do that might be to just stop.


Edited, Oct 14th 2010 9:37am by Aurelius
#48 Oct 14 2010 at 10:38 AM Rating: Decent
22 posts
Ok, so I checked leves on all 3 of my characters in all 3 cities and still can only get rank 10 Armorer leves. It's really odd because my Armorer is only rank 3 on my 1st character and rank 4 on my 2nd character because of this nonsense. The guildleve masters are picking on me, I just know it.
#49 Oct 14 2010 at 10:40 AM Rating: Decent
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I was looking for your opinion, w/e.

Quote:
Ok, so I checked leves on all 3 of my characters in all 3 cities and still can only get rank 10 Armorer leves. It's really odd because my Armorer is only rank 3 on my 1st character and rank 4 on my 2nd character because of this nonsense. The guildleve masters are picking on me, I just know it.


That's really weird. I've never only had one rank, it's always a wide range. Tell me your secrets so I can get rank 20 leves XD

Edited, Oct 14th 2010 12:41pm by mpmaley
#50 Oct 14 2010 at 12:34 PM Rating: Decent
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3,178 posts
Iron Haubergeon (Optimal Rank 37) (Listed as Rank 25 Armorer Synth)
x1 Iron Chain Sleeves
x1 Brass Buckle
x1 Iron Chainmail Vest
x1 Dodo Leather Strap
x1 Iron Chain
x1 Undeyed Canvas (You can used a couple dyed ones as well)

Cavalry Haubergeon (Optimal Rank 47)
x1 Iron Chain Sleeves
x1 Brass Buckle
x1 Iron Chainmail Vest
x1 Buffalo Leather Strap
x1 Iron Chain
x1 Undeyed Velveteen

Reinforced Bronze Mitt Gauntlets
x2 Bronze Plate
x1 Brass Buckle
x1 Copper Rivets
x1 Sheep Leather Inner Mitts

Wow. Yollew Gremlin has an incredible database. Thanks Aurelius. I can't imagine that every site will keep up with every other site's database. Ugh, what a lot of work.

Just listing these here for my own quick reference. Looks like there will be new crafting challenges for quite a ways into the future.
#51 Oct 14 2010 at 12:55 PM Rating: Decent
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782 posts
Quote:
Iron Haubergeon (Optimal Rank 37) (Listed as Rank 25 Armorer Synth)
x1 Iron Chain Sleeves
x1 Brass Buckle
x1 Iron Chainmail Vest
x1 Dodo Leather Strap
x1 Iron Chain
x1 Undeyed Canvas (You can used a couple dyed ones as well)


Only 25? I know what I'm doing when I get home. I have about 10 iron chains, 47 wires, and 70 rings to play with ^^

Probably not though its hard to sell level 30+ stuff still.
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