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why was this lockedFollow

#1 Oct 13 2010 at 10:44 AM Rating: Default
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http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?game=268&mid=1286900207153647926&page=1

Just so I'm clear your going to move any thred that is negative toward ff14 to the complaints department?



#2 Oct 13 2010 at 10:49 AM Rating: Decent
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To be fair the admins and site staff do get paid to work on this FFXIV forum, if the game is shown too negatively it will die even quicker than it already will and they will be in danger of losing their job or at least losing what would of been the next big thing from FFXI making money for the owners from the advertising and members subs etc.

You can't really expect anything else from a site dedicated to a game that has paid staff. It annoyed me to start with too but honestly you have to understand it. Even if the admins hate the game themselves this is their job and you are going to at least to a degree protect that.
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#3 Oct 13 2010 at 10:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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We feel that people coming here to make fun of the people that aren't quitting isn't very good for our forum community. Sure, you can complain all you want, we just don't need a multitude of threads doing it because it hurts this community.
#4 Oct 13 2010 at 10:52 AM Rating: Default
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preludes wrote:
To be fair the admins and site staff do get paid to work on this FFXIV forum, if the game is shown too negatively it will die even quicker than it already will and they will be in danger of losing their job or at least losing what would of been the next big thing from FFXI making money for the owners from the advertising and members subs etc.

You can't really expect anything else from a site dedicated to a game that has paid staff. It annoyed me to start with too but honestly you have to understand it. Even if the admins hate the game themselves this is their job and you are going to at least to a degree protect that.



By that logic there would be no integrity to the business model
#5 Oct 13 2010 at 10:53 AM Rating: Default
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all unpopular opinions now must go onto the same stickied thread, thats impossible to organize and attempt a real conversation in.
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#6 Oct 13 2010 at 10:53 AM Rating: Excellent
Pikko wrote:
Please take this to the stickied Complaints Department thread.


Perhaps they are tired of seeing the clutter of each individual player creating their own person quit/whine/IHATETHISGAME thread. All of which, quickly degenerate into pointless bickering and flame wars.

By the way, Pikko is an Admin and if you had read your own thread you would know why.
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#7 Oct 13 2010 at 10:55 AM Rating: Excellent
The admins appear to have decided that letting a forum for a fan site be dominated by people who are not fans of a game was counter productive. Unlike some other sites where they're simply locking threads and threatening people with bans, the kind admins here at ZAM have at least left you a place to belch out your disapproval. Those of us who are enjoying the game and looking forward to improvements appreciate having a general forum where good discussions and useful information aren't swept off the front page by countless, repetitive ***** threads. It would be one thing if it was new information, but several, "WTF NO AH!?!?" threads and every numpty and their puppy making a new, "What SE needs to fix" thread with the same points as the other dozen, "What SE needs to fix" threads is pointless and detracts from the forums.
#8 Oct 13 2010 at 10:56 AM Rating: Default
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If all the negative people begin posting dozens of FFXIV lovefest threads will they get locked and shoved into one thread?
#9 Oct 13 2010 at 11:00 AM Rating: Good
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KristoFurwalken wrote:
If all the negative people begin posting dozens of FFXIV lovefest threads will they get locked and shoved into one thread?


Dude...give it a rest. We all know you bought two copies and you are just plain mad and have to voice yourself in every thread about your displeasure in the game. Please...go away. Enough is enough. Your sarcasm is pretty **** annoying.
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#10 Oct 13 2010 at 11:03 AM Rating: Decent
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
The admins appear to have decided that letting a forum for a fan site be dominated by people who are not fans of a game was counter productive.


I think you are misunderstanding a players dissatisfaction for the game as them not being a fan...most of the people that came here probably were fans, or wanted to be fans, but just couldn't see any aspects of the game that would permit such a position.
#11 Oct 13 2010 at 11:23 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah thanks for adressing this. It was pretty annoying have to sift through the crap to get to the things I want to read or need to read in regards to playing 14. Even though it maybe unpolished to many, there are just as many others who see the potential and want to stick to playing this game to see what it will blossom into, I am one of those people.
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#12 Oct 13 2010 at 11:26 AM Rating: Excellent
burtonsnow wrote:
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
The admins appear to have decided that letting a forum for a fan site be dominated by people who are not fans of a game was counter productive.


I think you are misunderstanding a players dissatisfaction for the game as them not being a fan...most of the people that came here probably were fans, or wanted to be fans, but just couldn't see any aspects of the game that would permit such a position.


Big picture thinking, please. If someone isn't playing the game, they've got no business ******** up fansites with their whining, criticism and mockery. If someone is playing the game but dislike it so much that they need to make frequent, duplicate whine threads on a fansite, maybe they shouldn't be playing the game.

The point I think some of us appreciate is that you folks who feel the need to vent all this frustration haven't been bringing anything new to the table since launch. It's old. Old news is old. Continuing to whine about it here won't help anything. If you want SE to see your persistent disapproval, post in the Feedback forums. Those are the forums SE are apparently reading, not the general forums here.

On the flipside of the coin, continuing to whine about it here makes these forums a very negative place for those of us who are just as aware of XIV's shortcomings as you are but are enjoying the game despite them. See how that works? One course of action creates no benefit (because the whining is in the wrong place) and does create a consequence. The other course of action...a thread specifically for the kvetching...creates no consequence (you can still ***** if you need to) but does create a benefit (the general forums are more hospitable to those of us who would like to discuss the game instead of just complain about it.)

Freedom of speech ain't free, sport. It comes with responsibility, and abusing it in a way that dominates a place like this at the expense of the people these sites are supposed to be meant for just ain't cool.
#13 Oct 13 2010 at 11:36 AM Rating: Decent
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I agree with you a bit. I'm a pretty harsh critic of 14, and even I was getting annoyed with the people who were posting "lulz you still play this garbage" threads.

However, as someone who tried to constructively add to criticism and 'how can things be fixed' threads, I'm a bit upset to see them all shoveled off into the same stickied thread that will not be terribly useful. Most threads typically go off topic by page 2, thats why new threads are created to try and bring up the topic again to have some good discussion on it. Forcing it all in one place looks like sweeping it all under the rug. The better thing to do would have been locking/deleting actual troll posts. Then again, this boards so polarized that anything someone doesn't agree with gets rated down and called a troll.

Personally, I also felt that "I love the game, quit and GTFO" and "go back to wow" posts were much more frequent and offensive.
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#14 Oct 13 2010 at 11:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Pikko wrote:
We feel that people coming here to make fun of the people that aren't quitting isn't very good for our forum community. Sure, you can complain all you want, we just don't need a multitude of threads doing it because it hurts this community.


And as a member of the community - I know I really appreciate it. Really how many complaints threads do we need? It is nice to see some threads about actual gameplay and strategy on the front page for once.
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#15 Oct 13 2010 at 12:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Really how many complaints threads do we need? It is nice to see some threads about actual gameplay and strategy on the front page for once.


I agree and on the one hand I sort of like some constructive threads now and then, but on the other hand the number of complaint threads is simply proportional to how bad the game actually is....

I could go one way or the other. I don't think the goal is to say, hey all negative posts and complaints in one thread. But its more of a way to say - hey all you trolls and people not being constructively negative, stop it.

Hopefully complaints with constructive comments and people wanting to have a serious discussion will still be allowed. Or even better people could post complaints with ideas on how to fix the issues they are complaining about.
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#16 Oct 13 2010 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
burtonsnow wrote:
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
The admins appear to have decided that letting a forum for a fan site be dominated by people who are not fans of a game was counter productive.


I think you are misunderstanding a players dissatisfaction for the game as them not being a fan...most of the people that came here probably were fans, or wanted to be fans, but just couldn't see any aspects of the game that would permit such a position.


Big picture thinking, please. If someone isn't playing the game, they've got no business sh*tting up fansites with their whining, criticism and mockery. If someone is playing the game but dislike it so much that they need to make frequent, duplicate whine threads on a fansite, maybe they shouldn't be playing the game.


And you know what, I completely agree. Multiple threads on the same subject is counter-productive to any forum conversation. I can say the exact same thing about one thread for multiple subjects, such as the whine thread. It would have been nice if the moderators started merging like threads and keeping conversations more in place, but there is only so much they can do when a user really isn't breaking any rules.

All in all there are people on both sides of the river and both of those groups make it hard to navigate these forums and pull anything meaningful. If you have something meaningfully constructive it should not be put in the whine thread. Only trolls/wtf why are you still playing and GTFO/go play Wow should be put there honestly.
#17xthunderblazex, Posted: Oct 13 2010 at 12:37 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It was locked because Alla is owned by RMT.
#18 Oct 13 2010 at 12:39 PM Rating: Default
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I posted that thread, and I do understand why it was locked. I meant it to be somewhat humorous, but also felt that, since Slashdot is an "A-list" site for tech, science, and game discussions, that this topic was pretty important. The last MMO I saw discussed in this way on Slashdot was APB, and we all know how that ended.

It was partly motivated by the juvenile desire to say 'told you so!' after being mocked by fans during open beta for suggesting this game could go the way of APB. When I posted a thread about that possibility on FFXIVCore.com, my IP addresses (at work and at home) were banned, so I do appreciate that this site not only didn't delete my thread, but also that my account is fine.

Sometimes it's hard to separate the good fanbois from the bad fanbois, but I feel most of the fanbois here are "good" (meaning that, despite a love of this game, they don't put themselves above non-fans and recognize the game has some flaws).

I'll reign rein in my criticism.

edit: I suck at homophones.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 2:41pm by yfaithfully
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#19 Oct 13 2010 at 12:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm glad it was locked because it's just insulting in general. We are by definition an "online dork community" as well - we are online and enjoy games and computers. Classic nerd definitions.

Perhaps if the thread was even moderately constructive and linked to something of substance (as opposed to a random thread full of the same rants here....), it wouldn't have been locked.

#20 Oct 13 2010 at 12:56 PM Rating: Decent
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The moderation is done to protect the FF14 asset, which is as valuable to Zam in it's own way as it is to Square. If the game flops hard(it is anyway but it will still hobble on) this forum and section of their site does too, they are protecting their instrests. Thats how I see it anyway, don't agree with it but I see it for what it is.

It's not done for the community of the forum cause the majority of the community that post here agrees with the negative stuff or the rating system would take care of it, like it or not more people that post here do so cause they are annoyed with things/the game/square than the ones that say oooo pretty graphics...I see POTENTIAL here!

"leave britney alone" moderation in full effect. Also moving posts to "bin" area is as good as deletion, might as well just call it what it is.
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#21 Oct 13 2010 at 12:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Really it's a fine line we're trying to walk. Allowing people to express their opinions without infringing on the rights of others. Everyone who is enjoying the game wants to come here and discuss it without being mocked and put down. Everyone who has issues wants to come here to vent without being mocked and put down. There is no happy medium, but when the majority of threads on the first page are geared towards complaints, there we have an imbalance.

If you really want your complaints heard, you need to be posting in the FFXIV Feedback Forum so the devs see it. I'm sure they're reading the Complaints Department sticky as well. The general detritus that is currently in the main forums probably isn't being read.
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#22 Oct 13 2010 at 12:58 PM Rating: Excellent
xthunderblazex wrote:
It was locked because Alla is owned by RMT.



Smiley: lol People still think that?

As was very clearly stated in the Sticky:

Quote:
Alright, so it's been almost 3 weeks since CE release and yes, there's still a lot wrong with the game. Still, we don't need 500 threads about it and we certainly don't need everyone who is quitting to make their own. Lodge all your rants/complaints here. Quit here. Threads will be locked and pointed here. Report threads that get started after this one.

You can still discuss certain parts of the game that need work, but if it's a dead horse topic like the auction house or retainer system, please just use this thread.


We're not telling you what you can or cannot discuss. We're not simply nuking threads because they bash XIV/SE (unlike a certain other fansite(s)). However, as is quoted, 500 threads about the same issue just got old.

We absolutely want you guys to be able to discuss what you want. Not only the XIV admins but the site management as well. However, there needs to be some order to it all. There is a search function for non-premium members. It's new, and long time members may not be used to it being there yet, but it needs to be used.
#23 Oct 13 2010 at 1:07 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
We're not telling you what you can or cannot discuss. We're not simply nuking threads because they bash XIV/SE (unlike a certain other fansite(s)).


Anyone know which site this is aimed at? Wont be long before anything negative gets nuked on this portion of the site, be nice to have another forum I can read/post on that at least allows honest discussion.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 3:10pm by preludes
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#24 Oct 13 2010 at 1:11 PM Rating: Decent
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preludes wrote:
Quote:
We're not telling you what you can or cannot discuss. We're not simply nuking threads because they bash XIV/SE (unlike a certain other fansite(s)).


Anyone know which site this is aimed at? Wont be long before anything negative gets nuked on this portion of the site, be nice to have another forum I can read/post on that is at least allows honest discussion.




You're better off sticking with ZAM. Even if you disagree with the admin peps at least they talk to you and work with you. Other forum admins will talk at people and are not as personal unless they're ******** you over.

I'll edit in a minutes at work sorry






Edited, Oct 13th 2010 3:29pm by Brushy
#25 Oct 13 2010 at 1:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sigh, we don't nuke unless it's:

1) Offensive trolling, usually with pretty disgusting language
2) RMT/Spammers
3) Duplicates

I would think that someone with almost 900 posts would understand that about our forums by now. Do you really think that lowly of us for trying to moderate our own forum? We're not even doing it in a terribly harsh manner.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 9:12am by Pikko
#26 Oct 13 2010 at 1:13 PM Rating: Excellent
preludes wrote:
Quote:
We're not telling you what you can or cannot discuss. We're not simply nuking threads because they bash XIV/SE (unlike a certain other fansite(s)).


Anyone know which site this is aimed at? Wont be long before anything negative gets nuked on this portion of the site, be nice to have another forum I can read/post on that is at least allows honest discussion.


I think you may have misread? I said we are not just nuking posts that are critical of XIV simply by virtue of them being critical of XIV. And I can assure you, there will never be a point where ZAM just starts closing threads because we disagree with the users opinion.
#27 Oct 13 2010 at 1:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nuke != Lock

We don't nuke, we lock it and direct you to the complaint thread. I think we're being pretty lenient about that actually, I've seen several threads that could have been locked, but I didn't because nobody reported it.
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#28 Oct 13 2010 at 1:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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If a thread has the same content as ten (or, meh, a hundred) previous threads, and if the replies are all basically the same as the replies in all those previous threads, then that thread doesn't need to exist.

If people would post in existing threads instead of starting new ones on the same topic, threads wouldn't need to be locked or merged in the first place. But, no one wants to do that, because they all think that their personal opinion, which is just like everyone else's, is important enough that it needs its own thread. You don't need to prove the superiority of your decision to quit or stay to the rest of this board -- we don't care.

New threads are for new content, not different posters repeating old content.
#29 Oct 13 2010 at 1:15 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
but also felt that, since Slashdot is an "A-list" site for tech, science, and game discussions,


ROFL.... a-list sites are not days behind every single other site on the Internet. Slashdot has become nothing more than a pit for the lowly geeks who actually think running/installing/troubleshooting linux makes you some how better than all other geeks. It should be avoided at all costs.

#30 Oct 13 2010 at 1:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?game=268&mid=1286816918312899321&page=2

Read many of the posts on that page and imagine all of them creating new threads for them. Not very good for the forum and they are just fine in that thread. For me, I was sick of everyone quitting putting out a soapbox in the middle of General to announce to the world they were leaving. People like me, who have a lot to ***** about the game, yet still manage to find fun in the game, don't really care.

Sure, I still have to read about it to moderate the complaints thread, but at least I know the community doesn't have to put up with all of it too. They shouldn't have to. They play the game, they KNOW the issues too, but they've chosen to stick around. I'm sorry, but these are the people that we want to cater to, not the people who might not come back.

If a valid, new issue comes up, we are of course going to leave it.
#31 Oct 13 2010 at 1:21 PM Rating: Excellent
preludes wrote:
Quote:
We're not telling you what you can or cannot discuss. We're not simply nuking threads because they bash XIV/SE (unlike a certain other fansite(s)).


Anyone know which site this is aimed at? Wont be long before anything negative gets nuked on this portion of the site, be nice to have another forum I can read/post on that at least allows honest discussion.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 3:10pm by preludes

This forum allows honest discussion too. There has been an overwhelming amount of it lately to prove that. You seem to be forgetting that the admins aren't preventing any of this discussion; they are simply making sure the discussion stays in a single thread instead of cluttering up the front page of the forum. This isn't about liking or hating the game at all; it's about the admins doing what they are paid to do, which is to keep the forum civil, clean, and organized.

There is no stifling of opinion going on here at all. If you have something to say, say it. But say it where it belongs. Some people like to see threads with real discussion in them. 90% of the complaint threads all have the same people saying the same things over and over again (which is not real discussion, it's just whining), and that is just wasting space and time.
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#32 Oct 13 2010 at 1:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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You know how I know that Zam isn't the same as it was a couple years back?

That BFF report. A couple years back Zam would have never posted something that critical of FFXIV, and let me tell you - MikeB was brutal in his review. I mean literally, he was brutal. I watched it at least ten times and it just seemed more brutal each time.

A couple years ago Zam would have acquiesced to SE's requests about not reviewing despite what other sites have done. No - they are certainly not locking things that are critical of SE anymore.

#33xthunderblazex, Posted: Oct 13 2010 at 2:34 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) "Affinity Media was said to be one of the parent company of IGE, though the company no longer has any ownership stake. Affinity Media's senior vice president of business development John Maffei, noted that "we’re no longer in that business." [13] Affinity retains control of Allakhazam.com, Thottbot.com, and has since purchased Wowhead.com [14]."
#34 Oct 13 2010 at 2:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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That quote of yours is so old that John Maffei left here like two years ago. The whole IGE sister company thing ended before that.

Also, you realize that the quote states the opposite of what you're claiming?

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 10:45am by Pikko
#35 Oct 13 2010 at 2:49 PM Rating: Default
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windexy wrote:
Quote:
but also felt that, since Slashdot is an "A-list" site for tech, science, and game discussions,


ROFL.... a-list sites are not days behind every single other site on the Internet. Slashdot has become nothing more than a pit for the lowly geeks who actually think running/installing/troubleshooting linux makes you some how better than all other geeks. It should be avoided at all costs.


A FF fanboi calling Slashdotters lowly geeks? Now I've seen everything.
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#36 Oct 13 2010 at 10:22 PM Rating: Good
Torrence wrote:
You know how I know that Zam isn't the same as it was a couple years back?

That BFF report. A couple years back Zam would have never posted something that critical of FFXIV, and let me tell you - MikeB was brutal in his review. I mean literally, he was brutal. I watched it at least ten times and it just seemed more brutal each time.

A couple years ago Zam would have acquiesced to SE's requests about not reviewing despite what other sites have done. No - they are certainly not locking things that are critical of SE anymore.



From what I've seen, MikeB pretty much does his own thing. He's not directly related to the XIV boards. He reviews all kinds of online titles, and one of the things I appreciate about his work (other than his humor) is that he doesn't nuzzle nuts or pull punches. I'm enjoying FFXIV and his review didn't bother me. And you could tell he was cognizant of the fact that the XIV boards are currently driving more traffic than any other game forum on ZAM I know of and went out of his way to give people...aka fans...space to enjoy the game without labeling them as deficient in any way.

SE requested that no reviews be posted prior to the game's launch. Or more succinctly, no reviews posted based on the open beta. As I understood it, fony had his FFXIV review ready to go before the open beta was over and held off until after the NDA was formally lifted and before SE made their post-launch request for no reviews. In other words, you're wrong...ZAM wasn't in a position to acquiesce to SE's request because at that time, there was no request to refrain from posting reviews on the table.

Much as I've given certain admins here a hard time about their approach to these forums, the one thing I'm happy to give them full credit for is that they seem to prefer to err on the side of freedom of expression. You know things are out of hand when Pikko spearheads a thread to funnel the negativity and pap into one concentrated cesspool of angst instead of allowing it to spill over onto (and dominate) the entire front page of the General forum thread list.

I agree...ZAM has changed in the last couple of years, and not necessarily in a good way but not for the reasons you've stated. If anything, my kvetch lies in the opposite direction when it appears that quantity of forum goers (and the resulting chaos) becomes more important than quality of content. As kvetches go, however, it's a pretty mild one as long as the forums are preserved as a place where intelligent discussion can take place without a mountain of dumb and QQ as can so often be the case. I think most of us have had enough of the dumb and QQ and there are some interesting threads starting to take shape. And I give the admins credit for contributing to a situation where that can happen.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 9:23pm by Aurelius
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