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#1 Oct 13 2010 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
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Anybody else impressed with how fast SE is patching some of these issues?

I got Starcraft 2 shortly after release and it took them over a month to release the first balance patch. They also haven't added things like chat rooms or clan support which everyone is pretty peeved about. There was a lot of negative criticism towards Blizzard for the lack of speed in their updates and their lack of communication with the community, despite having official boards.

I'm just comparing the FFXIV release to the SC2 release and SE seems to be fixing what needs to be fixed and doing it fast. Granted this release is a complete disaster, where SC2 was a decent game right out of the gate so I guess they need to get their asses in gear.

Also, I might be saying this a little bit early. I just know that they patched last week and fixed a bunch of key issues people were having (group exp, chatting while crafting, etc.) and they also said they would be fixing the retainer issue, which it appears they are doing this week (maintenance scheduled for the 15th). They have also mentioned that the UI is their top priority so I expect some improvements there as well in the near future.

I guess what I'm saying is that assuming they keep patching the game as often as they seem to be, and assuming those patches continue to be important fixes, like they seem to be, I will be quite impressed with SE's damage control and they might actually be able to save this trainwreck of a game. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy the game despite all the problems, so I'm happy to see them fixing things so I can enjoy it even more.

I know it's popular to bash SE here (which they deserve, quite frankly these patches are things that should have been fixed in BETA, or **** even before then) but they seem to be doing more than people give them credit for. They are acknowledging the problems and they appear to be fixing them in a timely manner. Of course they didn't come out and say "oops our game is a POS, sorry" like everyone wants them to. But they admit the retainer system sucks, they acknowledge that everyone hates the UI, and they asked reviewers to wait a month to review the game, which tells me they are planning on making some big changes in the next month.

My point is that the future looks promising for this game. I absolutely agree that they messed up big time with the release, and should have fixed a lot of these issues prior to release. However, what's done is done and from where we are now I'm thinking that most of the issues will be resolved by the time the playstation release hits. I personally enjoy this game already, so I'm happy to see the improvements come and looking forward to continue playing.

Just my little reverse-rant to balance out all the ranting the rest of you are doing :)
#2 Oct 13 2010 at 2:08 PM Rating: Default
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Hmmm no?

all they did so far is some minor fix and 1 major fix with chat box
but even there i wouldnt call a full fix on chat.

- chat still closing when i start a synth
- too short chat input
- lag on chat box ...


If they fix ward correctly tommorow i might change my mind but so
far, no, nothing impressive here
#3 Oct 13 2010 at 2:13 PM Rating: Decent
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I am not. Naming wards is an easy fix. One that I feel won't even fix the problem its attempting to address. Rather than acknowledge that they've put out a game that the majority feels is sub par, they are playing it off as them listening to feedback, and improving things they can fix, hoping we'll forgive them long enough. I would be impressed if SE came out and said they didn't give us the game they spent years talking about, what they would like to do to fix it. But that won't happen, the last game to overhaul itself significantly like that was SWG. This is the game we got, they'll toss band aids at it for a while, and most likely divert focus away from MMOs.
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#4 Oct 13 2010 at 2:13 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm not really impressed at all. The patches so far have been for really minor things that should not take very long to fix.

You can't compare it to Starcraft II balance patch, because it's not possible to foresee balancing issues until they game is played a lot. Plus balance issues can be a lot more complex, because you can cause new balance issues while trying to fix the old balance issues.

I have not seen them admit the retainer system sucks. On the contrary it seems like they will keep it no matter what and are holding their ground with the retainer system.

If they fixed some of the more major issues already, then I'd give them more credit. As it stands I have yet to see anything get fixed to make the game actually more playable (like a faster UI, reducing battle lag, or a searchable retainers).
#5 Oct 13 2010 at 2:14 PM Rating: Good
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forgivers wrote:
Hmmm no?

all they did so far is some minor fix and 1 major fix with chat box
but even there i wouldnt call a full fix on chat.

- chat still closing when i start a synth
- too short chat input
- lag on chat box ...


If they fix ward correctly tommorow i might change my mind but so
far, no, nothing impressive here


Well like I said I'm assuming they will fix wards this week and I'm also assuming they will continue with frequent updates either weekly or bi-weekly. There certainly is a lot to fix for sure though. You can't expect them to completely replace the UI in a week, but I suspect it will be much different over the course of many patches.
#6 Oct 13 2010 at 2:19 PM Rating: Good
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Cyiode wrote:
I'm not really impressed at all. The patches so far have been for really minor things that should not take very long to fix.

You can't compare it to Starcraft II balance patch, because it's not possible to foresee balancing issues until they game is played a lot. Plus balance issues can be a lot more complex, because you can cause new balance issues while trying to fix the old balance issues.

I have not seen them admit the retainer system sucks. On the contrary it seems like they will keep it no matter what and are holding their ground with the retainer system.

If they fixed some of the more major issues already, then I'd give them more credit. As it stands I have yet to see anything get fixed to make the game actually more playable (like a faster UI, reducing battle lag, or a searchable retainers).


Fair enough, and you're right about the balance issues. I was referring more to things like chat channels, LAN, name changes, and all sorts of other things players were crying about. They haven't patched ANY of that stuff and the game was released in July. And to clarify they aren't getting rid of retainers, but they are trying to improve the retainer system, whether that means some sort of search functionality or ward organization I don't know. I agree that they haven't fixed the big issues yet, I guess all I'm saying is that it seems like they have acknowledged the issues and at least started trying to fix them, so hopefully in the future it will improve. I recently read an interview with someone from SE where they mentioned that the biggest complaint they've had is the UI and that is their top priority.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 4:20pm by Cyrus11
#7 Oct 13 2010 at 2:19 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Cyrus11 wrote:
forgivers wrote:
Hmmm no?

all they did so far is some minor fix and 1 major fix with chat box
but even there i wouldnt call a full fix on chat.

- chat still closing when i start a synth
- too short chat input
- lag on chat box ...


If they fix ward correctly tommorow i might change my mind but so
far, no, nothing impressive here


Well like I said I'm assuming they will fix wards this week and I'm also assuming they will continue with frequent updates either weekly or bi-weekly. There certainly is a lot to fix for sure though. You can't expect them to completely replace the UI in a week, but I suspect it will be much different over the course of many patches.
They aren't fixing the wards. They're making one change, sorting them by item type. This does the least amount of work possible to address the actual demands of the players: a search system. The reason they aren't adding it is because they feel it won't fit into the immersion, which is baseless because I can think of a very easy way to make retainers work for you in an auction-styled environment.
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#8 Oct 13 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Lets jus say patch means there is a problem... and requiring alot of patching in short amount of time is bad. But overall i'm impressed that their response is alot better den when they release FFXI.
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#9 Oct 13 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Cyrus11 wrote:
forgivers wrote:
Hmmm no?

all they did so far is some minor fix and 1 major fix with chat box
but even there i wouldnt call a full fix on chat.

- chat still closing when i start a synth
- too short chat input
- lag on chat box ...


If they fix ward correctly tommorow i might change my mind but so
far, no, nothing impressive here


Well like I said I'm assuming they will fix wards this week and I'm also assuming they will continue with frequent updates either weekly or bi-weekly. There certainly is a lot to fix for sure though. You can't expect them to completely replace the UI in a week, but I suspect it will be much different over the course of many patches.
They aren't fixing the wards. They're making one change, sorting them by item type. This does the least amount of work possible to address the actual demands of the players: a search system. The reason they aren't adding it is because they feel it won't fit into the immersion, which is baseless because I can think of a very easy way to make retainers work for you in an auction-styled environment.


I thought they weren't adding it to somehow prevent gil-sellers? I also didn't think they explicitly stated exactly what they would be changing with the retainer system. Although sorting by item type is still 10x better than it is now. Sometimes I just want armor and have to look through tons of retainers that are selling crystals and crafting supplies just to find 1 piece of armor.
#10 Oct 13 2010 at 2:25 PM Rating: Default
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Sleepymagi wrote:
Lets jus say patch means there is a problem... and requiring alot of patching in short amount of time is bad. But overall i'm impressed that their response is alot better den when they release FFXI.


Better ? how?

Are they listening to players? NO
They have a better Support service? NO
They patching the game? try to but fail so far

alot better !
#11 Oct 13 2010 at 2:29 PM Rating: Decent
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So wait. Let me make sure I've got this. You're saying that you are more impressed by a company that released a universally-panned and nakedly (conceptually and functionally) unfinished game, who as a matter of policy autobans paying customers without saying why, will not even communicate a timetable or goal for their damage control and refuses to even answer most questions in interviews versus a company that released a universally-praised game with only very minor additional feature issues.

Do I have that right? Oh yes, I'm COMPLETELY impressed by SE. COMPLETELY.

Seriously???? Fish is brain food, people.
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#12 Oct 13 2010 at 2:30 PM Rating: Good
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forgivers wrote:
Sleepymagi wrote:
Lets jus say patch means there is a problem... and requiring alot of patching in short amount of time is bad. But overall i'm impressed that their response is alot better den when they release FFXI.


Better ? how?

Are they listening to players? NO
They have a better Support service? NO
They patching the game? try to but fail so far

alot better !


See it's posts like this I don't get.

Are they listening to players? They identified the UI as their #1 priority, acknowledged that everyone hates it, and they are trying to improve the retainer system this week as well. Seems to me like they're listening.

Better support service? Not too sure what you mean by that, but due to a lack of official forums and community reps I will agree with you.

Patching the game? Well they did a small patch last week, another this week, the official release was 2 weeks ago, and you have 2 patches already, what the heck do you expect? Daily patches? Then you would complain about all the downtime for patching lol. Give it some time. I agree the release was pathetic and needs a lot of work, but that takes time.
#13 Oct 13 2010 at 2:33 PM Rating: Good
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hexaemeron wrote:
So wait. Let me make sure I've got this. You're saying that you are more impressed by a company that released a universally-panned and nakedly (conceptually and functionally) unfinished game, who as a matter of policy autobans paying customers without saying why, will not even communicate a timetable or goal for their damage control and refuses to even answer most questions in interviews versus a company that released a universally-praised game with only very minor additional feature issues.

Do I have that right? Oh yes, I'm COMPLETELY impressed by SE. COMPLETELY.

Seriously???? Fish is brain food, people.


Read the OP. I said impressed with patching speed, certainly not impressed with the game as a whole lol. I was referring to be impressed with a single aspect, and you mentioned multiple other aspects that had nothing to do with the aspect I mentioned. Try reading more than just the title next time. Also, I can tell you never lurked the Starcraft 2 forums after release. The QQ'ing was comparable to these forums.

And some fish is contaminated.
#14 Oct 13 2010 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Cyrus11 wrote:
forgivers wrote:
Sleepymagi wrote:
Lets jus say patch means there is a problem... and requiring alot of patching in short amount of time is bad. But overall i'm impressed that their response is alot better den when they release FFXI.


Better ? how?

Are they listening to players? NO
They have a better Support service? NO
They patching the game? try to but fail so far

alot better !


See it's posts like this I don't get.

Are they listening to players? They identified the UI as their #1 priority, acknowledged that everyone hates it, and they are trying to improve the retainer system this week as well. Seems to me like they're listening.

Better support service? Not too sure what you mean by that, but due to a lack of official forums and community reps I will agree with you.

Patching the game? Well they did a small patch last week, another this week, the official release was 2 weeks ago, and you have 2 patches already, what the heck do you expect? Daily patches? Then you would complain about all the downtime for patching lol. Give it some time. I agree the release was pathetic and needs a lot of work, but that takes time.


Players were asking for an auction house or a search retainer function.
SE give us a name change on area (very easy fix) and give us a tax reduction that we just never asked

They have a plan, they ll follow that plan, if you believe that you have any influence on it then you realy dont understand how SE work.
#15 Oct 13 2010 at 2:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Cyrus11 wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
So wait. Let me make sure I've got this. You're saying that you are more impressed by a company that released a universally-panned and nakedly (conceptually and functionally) unfinished game, who as a matter of policy autobans paying customers without saying why, will not even communicate a timetable or goal for their damage control and refuses to even answer most questions in interviews versus a company that released a universally-praised game with only very minor additional feature issues.

Do I have that right? Oh yes, I'm COMPLETELY impressed by SE. COMPLETELY.

Seriously???? Fish is brain food, people.


Read the OP. I said impressed with patching speed, certainly not impressed with the game as a whole lol. I was referring to be impressed with a single aspect, and you mentioned multiple other aspects that had nothing to do with the aspect I mentioned. Try reading more than just the title next time. Also, I can tell you never lurked the Starcraft 2 forums after release. The QQ'ing was comparable to these forums.

And some fish is contaminated.


I'm honestly not impressed with anything they've done (choices, development, policy, customer relations) in any way with respect to this game.
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#16 Oct 13 2010 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
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Alright well I can tell I'm alone here so I'm abandoning this thread lol.

In closing, I am enjoying this game a lot so far and am optimistic that they will fix the issues that are present. That being said... *backs away slowly*
#17 Oct 13 2010 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Patching the game? Well they did a small patch last week, another this week, the official release was 2 weeks ago, and you have 2 patches already, what the heck do you expect? Daily patches? Then you would complain about all the downtime for patching lol. Give it some time. I agree the release was pathetic and needs a lot of work, but that takes time.


Well, I think I can answer this. People want patches that address the issues the players feel make the game unenjoyable. Those patches you are talking about were a nerf to skillups for Thaumaturge (as I understand it, it was classified as an exploit), and a patch to correct an issue with Macros not functioning properly with a specific item +1 (don't know the name off top of my head).

I don't know about you, but I don't find those two items to be really high on the priority list. Ok, maybe the Thaumaturge one - but the macro one just shows me they are either

1. Doing easiest work possible while masquerading it as a serious fix (this was probably just a mistype in a variable somewhere)

2. They really are this out of touch with the most important issues to the players

You pick.
#18 Oct 13 2010 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
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Last weeks "patch" was entirely bug fixes. They didn't add anything to the game, they fixed crap that shouldn't have happened. and before someone says "all MMOs release with bugs", I will point out that it shouldn't be an excuse. No game should release with bugs, but they do. And we're used to it now so its fine. However, they don't deserve praise for fixing it.

As far as tomorrow's patch. they're altering a system I consider a 2/10 into a 3/10, hooray!
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#19 Oct 13 2010 at 7:40 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Cyrus11 wrote:
I thought they weren't adding it to somehow prevent gil-sellers? I also didn't think they explicitly stated exactly what they would be changing with the retainer system. Although sorting by item type is still 10x better than it is now. Sometimes I just want armor and have to look through tons of retainers that are selling crystals and crafting supplies just to find 1 piece of armor.
They did explicitly say what they're changing in the wards. Rather than just having a handful of different zones, they are going to be broken up into different sections based on item type. So, if you sell a shield in the shield ward, you pay a lower tax on the sale, but regular tax on anything else. I still see this running into issues, because most people tend to sell more than one type of item at once, so many items will still be unsorted, and it's up to the player to determine what he wants to sell most, which may end up making the items that aren't being sold in the proper ward much harder to sell since people aren't looking there. It's a better system, but doesn't do what needs to be done, it doesn't add an actual search option.

And really, it doesn't take much to improvement the market ward system right now. A wide variety of things can be done to make the experience smoother. I'll give SE credit when it's "good", not just "better".
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#20 Oct 13 2010 at 7:40 PM Rating: Default
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I'm impressed with SE. Flubbing a launch this badly is certainly impressive.
#21 Oct 13 2010 at 9:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Torrence wrote:
Quote:
Patching the game? Well they did a small patch last week, another this week, the official release was 2 weeks ago, and you have 2 patches already, what the heck do you expect? Daily patches? Then you would complain about all the downtime for patching lol. Give it some time. I agree the release was pathetic and needs a lot of work, but that takes time.


Well, I think I can answer this. People want patches that address the issues the players feel make the game unenjoyable. Those patches you are talking about were a nerf to skillups for Thaumaturge (as I understand it, it was classified as an exploit), and a patch to correct an issue with Macros not functioning properly with a specific item +1 (don't know the name off top of my head).

I don't know about you, but I don't find those two items to be really high on the priority list. Ok, maybe the Thaumaturge one - but the macro one just shows me they are either

1. Doing easiest work possible while masquerading it as a serious fix (this was probably just a mistype in a variable somewhere)

2. They really are this out of touch with the most important issues to the players

You pick.


They addressed some of the issues with chat. That was a major problem for a lot of players, so I have no idea why you're overlooking that. They also fixed the SP distribution problem, as far as I'm aware.
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#22 Oct 13 2010 at 9:48 PM Rating: Decent
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I'll be impressed with SE when if they carry through on their word. ****, I'll even buy FFXIV and pay the monthly fee. But not until then.
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#23 Oct 13 2010 at 10:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Clydey2Times wrote:
Torrence wrote:
Quote:
Patching the game? Well they did a small patch last week, another this week, the official release was 2 weeks ago, and you have 2 patches already, what the heck do you expect? Daily patches? Then you would complain about all the downtime for patching lol. Give it some time. I agree the release was pathetic and needs a lot of work, but that takes time.


Well, I think I can answer this. People want patches that address the issues the players feel make the game unenjoyable. Those patches you are talking about were a nerf to skillups for Thaumaturge (as I understand it, it was classified as an exploit), and a patch to correct an issue with Macros not functioning properly with a specific item +1 (don't know the name off top of my head).

I don't know about you, but I don't find those two items to be really high on the priority list. Ok, maybe the Thaumaturge one - but the macro one just shows me they are either

1. Doing easiest work possible while masquerading it as a serious fix (this was probably just a mistype in a variable somewhere)

2. They really are this out of touch with the most important issues to the players

You pick.


They addressed some of the issues with chat. That was a major problem for a lot of players, so I have no idea why you're overlooking that. They also fixed the SP distribution problem, as far as I'm aware.


see I disagree. I think that was a minor problem for just about every player. I didnt read any posts from people willing to quit over not chatting while synthing. ALso they didnt fix the 'SP distribution problem', sure they made it so everyone actually gets what they earned, however what they earn is still unfair and not representative of what people actually do in groups.
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#24 Oct 13 2010 at 10:06 PM Rating: Default
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There are many glaring issues that they aren't addressing yet, and the patchwork job done on the retainer system is just that, a patch job.

I think when the biggest complaint is that the game doesn't support clans or have chat rooms in game, I would call that a pretty successful game.
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#25 Oct 13 2010 at 10:33 PM Rating: Decent
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KujaKoF wrote:
Clydey2Times wrote:
Torrence wrote:
Quote:
Patching the game? Well they did a small patch last week, another this week, the official release was 2 weeks ago, and you have 2 patches already, what the heck do you expect? Daily patches? Then you would complain about all the downtime for patching lol. Give it some time. I agree the release was pathetic and needs a lot of work, but that takes time.


Well, I think I can answer this. People want patches that address the issues the players feel make the game unenjoyable. Those patches you are talking about were a nerf to skillups for Thaumaturge (as I understand it, it was classified as an exploit), and a patch to correct an issue with Macros not functioning properly with a specific item +1 (don't know the name off top of my head).

I don't know about you, but I don't find those two items to be really high on the priority list. Ok, maybe the Thaumaturge one - but the macro one just shows me they are either

1. Doing easiest work possible while masquerading it as a serious fix (this was probably just a mistype in a variable somewhere)

2. They really are this out of touch with the most important issues to the players

You pick.


They addressed some of the issues with chat. That was a major problem for a lot of players, so I have no idea why you're overlooking that. They also fixed the SP distribution problem, as far as I'm aware.


see I disagree. I think that was a minor problem for just about every player. I didnt read any posts from people willing to quit over not chatting while synthing. ALso they didnt fix the 'SP distribution problem', sure they made it so everyone actually gets what they earned, however what they earn is still unfair and not representative of what people actually do in groups.


The point is that they are attempting to address these issues. People seem convinced that SE aren't listening to feedback simply because they refuse to implement the exact system that they want. They are aware of the issues and are attempting to fix them. It may not be to everyone's liking, but they are at least demonstrating some sort of awareness.
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#26Velgauder, Posted: Oct 13 2010 at 11:01 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) To the OP,
#27 Oct 15 2010 at 8:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Well, in light of last nights update and all of the proposed changes they just announced, in addition to the extension of the free trial month, I must give this thread a shameless bump :)
#28 Oct 15 2010 at 8:29 AM Rating: Default
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Cyrus11 wrote:
Well, in light of last nights update and all of the proposed changes they just announced, in addition to the extension of the free trial month, I must give this thread a shameless bump :)


Be more impressed with the complainers they made SE bend to their will.
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#29 Oct 15 2010 at 8:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Cyrus11 wrote:
Well, in light of last nights update and all of the proposed changes they just announced, in addition to the extension of the free trial month, I must give this thread a shameless bump :)


Much deserved bump.... and big ups to SE... Holy crap.

They (for once) have a good marketing thing going on here.
Bite the bullet and give everyone another 30days. Tell them up front what you plan on changing in the next 60 days.
Give them a taste in Nov of what we have in store to keep the majority signed up; show them we can deliver what we say we will. And at the start of the first real billing cycle release more content and drive it home.

I think the changes will really help the game out and will give more hope to the players who already find it entertaining.

I am excited about the update... but I will be impressed when they implement all these claims they have made this morning. We will see where the next 60 days (Nov/Dec) take the game.

Edited, Oct 15th 2010 10:35am by edge1006
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#30 Oct 15 2010 at 8:42 AM Rating: Default
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#31 Oct 15 2010 at 8:46 AM Rating: Good
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Anybody else impressed with how fast SE is patching some of these issues?


I'll be impressed after they patched it, yes.

But the extended free trial definitely is noteworthy.

Edited, Oct 15th 2010 10:47am by Rinsui
#32 Oct 15 2010 at 8:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Anybody impressed with SE?


I am. There are problems with the game and they are fixing them. SE is a somewhat stubborn developer, but not to the point of financial suicide. They listen to their community and compared to a lot of MMO developers they do a great job responding to our complaints.

People who are calling XIV such a catastrophic launch haven't played enough MMO's @ launch. Vanguard: SoH was a catastrophic launch from which the game never recovered. It's actually a great game in it's current state that absolutely no one plays, and as a result it is dying a slow and painful death. Comparatively, this launch isn't that bad at all.

XIV isn't great right now, but it will be and SE will get it there. Part of the problem is the negativity in the community. I'm not sure if it's "on demand" generation that wants everything now or if it's the hardcore contingent that log 40+ hours per week in game (seem to be a lot of you out there than migrated over from XI) or some other vertical I'm not recognizing, but it's counter productive to flame a game you want to see succeed. I log into ZAM everyday hoping to see something positive or some interesting guide / write-up / FAQ from people who are exploring new content and figuring out the in-game mechanics and in-game systems, but instead it's just flames.

In the end though, it doesn't really matter, because SE knows how to put out a great product and this game has a dedicated fan base that will see it through it's growing pains to ensure it's success and longevity. So flame away haters, XIV isn't going anywhere but up.....(because we can't go down from here ><)

Quote:
Haters will be haters.


Well said sir. Ignore my tl;dr post above...this guy summed it up.

Edited, Oct 15th 2010 10:52am by DonFlamenco
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#33 Oct 15 2010 at 8:57 AM Rating: Default
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Yes I am, people have no idea how long problems take to fix.
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#34 Oct 15 2010 at 9:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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For now, it's smoke and mirrors.
Save your "see, I told you!" for December.
And by then it will be 3 month after launch.

Not going to say I don't like what I read in the menu.
But a pizza is best judged after it's been delivered ^.-/
#35 Oct 15 2010 at 9:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'll be impressed when the fixes actually go live, and this level of communication from SE becomes a regular thing and not just a panicked response to mass cancellations (like it was with FFXI's infamous "enfeebling nerf"). And yes, I am fully aware of what a spoiled, unreasonable jerk I am like that. Though I must admit, the extended trial period is a nice touch.

Edited, Oct 15th 2010 11:18am by RajiFarlander
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#36 Oct 15 2010 at 9:48 AM Rating: Decent
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UncleRuckusForLife wrote:
Cyrus11 wrote:
Well, in light of last nights update and all of the proposed changes they just announced, in addition to the extension of the free trial month, I must give this thread a shameless bump :)


Be more impressed with the complainers they made SE bend to their will.

No, I'm more impressed with SE because they actually listened. Other MMO's have equally vocal complainers, yet the companies don't do anything about it until an expansion comes out (here's looking at you, Blizzard). SE's doing it with regular updates.
#37 Oct 15 2010 at 9:51 AM Rating: Good
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Cyrus11 wrote:
Anybody else impressed with how fast SE is patching some of these issues?

Kinda reminds me of that Chris Rock bit about how, um, "people" always want credit for doing some s$%t they're supposed to do.

"I patch horrendous UI problems in my game that was released six months early."
"Whatchu' want, a cookie!?"
#38 Oct 15 2010 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
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Give me a break, you must have been desperate for anything. Taking 3 weeks to change some strings on a Ward list and fixing a few bugs (many known since EARLY BETA'S) is hardly impressive. Taking 2 months to add dirt simple functionality like inventory sort and attempt to improve a broken Anima and and travel system is an embarrassment. That kind of stuff should have been done week 1 or 2. They don't even mention other game breaking issues like a working Search/Seek system. When you design a game that basically requires partying past Rank 20 to make any kind of reasonable progress, and include no real means to form said parties, I would call that a high priority issue.


Edited, Oct 15th 2010 12:08pm by Furia
#39 Oct 15 2010 at 10:15 AM Rating: Default
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If you're still unhappy with the direction Square is going, why are you still here? It's obvious that nothing they do, short of turning water into wine, will alleviate the hatred you've got for the game. It's not enough for you that they've obviously seen what they've done wrong and are listening to the players for once. That's more than I can say for other companies who wait until a major expansion just to have their users PAY for improvements.
#40 Oct 15 2010 at 10:16 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Anybody else impressed with how fast SE is patching some of these issues?


Why would we be impressed with things that should have been fixed in beta. Now if they are problems that were unforeseen then I understand your reaction. The fact is, SE knew about this stuff way before the game was released. The amount of pressure that was put on SE this time around was monstrous. From stock holders selling millions of dollars worth of stock to amazon lowering the price of the game. This reaction isn't something to be impressed over. All it should have taken to get this stuff fixed was us sending in feedback. Dont kid yourself it wasn't the GM calls placed complaining that got things changed. It was the ********* that SE has been going through.


So no I'm not impressed in the least.
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#41 Oct 15 2010 at 10:32 AM Rating: Good
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The only thing that impresses me right now is the fact that they're giving an extra free month of playtime. Most of what's being added in the next version update is stuff that should have added in beta, particularly because the beta forums were full of feedback about the stuff they're finally getting around to fixing. That's not impressive, that's SE doing their job, and slowly at that. Also, it's going to take them over a month to add some of the stuff they're advertising? I'd MUCH rather see them spend a day working on just inventory sorting, punch out a small patch, and release it that night, rather than work on a bunch of stuff and not release any of it until December.

I'm not going to be impressed unless SE is going beyond just what they should be doing, or should have already done.
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#42 Oct 15 2010 at 10:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yes, I am impressed with SE. That free month of playtime is their way of saying "We effed it up, sorry." And they did. I'm not gonna lie to anyone. Just because I have been enjoying myself in the game does not mean that I do not see the issues that others point out, or that I do not have my own issues with...well, I want this to be a short post, lol.

But if anyone was holding out for an apology from SE for the state of the game that they released, there it is. That free month is the closest you are gonna get. And it was a darn sight more than I expected from them.

So, in response to the "apology" I would like to say to SE that all will be forgiven when they take the gear for all of those crafting/gathering jobs they want me to level OUT of my numbered inventory. Seriously, the +1, +2 crap AND two pieces of gear per craft? You're KILLING me!

(Ooops! Impressed, yes...a lil bit.)
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#43 Oct 15 2010 at 11:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
No, I'm more impressed with SE because they actually listened. Other MMO's have equally vocal complainers, yet the companies don't do anything about it until an expansion comes out (here's looking at you, Blizzard). SE's doing it with regular updates.


You're misrepresenting Blizzard. They have active members on their official forums every day answering player concerns, frequent patches, a playable test server and patch notes out well before the patch is in place so people know what's coming...

The most recent big thing Blizzard backed down on from people complaining/quitting en masse was the RealID forum change. Tens of thousands of complaints on the forums and thousands of canceled accounts and they did a full 180 on their plans (which had been in the works for months internally) within a couple of days.

Say what you want about WoW, but you cannot compare Square and Blizzard in terms of communication and response to their customers.
#44 Oct 15 2010 at 11:39 AM Rating: Decent
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robywar wrote:
You're misrepresenting Blizzard. They have active members on their official forums every day answering player concerns, frequent patches, a playable test server and patch notes out well before the patch is in place so people know what's coming...

No, YOU are misrepresenting Blizzard. Your post makes me wonder how long it's been since you've even played a Blizzard game.

I'm still a forum regular there (have been for years), and Blues seldomly make any open statements regarding class balance, game improvements, etc. All they ever really say is, "We're working to make so-and-so more fun!" Yippee? Frequent patches? Sure, if you count all the micro-patches to fix useless things like NPC names per maintenance. They only have several major revisions per expansion period, and those are denoted by their corresponding numbers in relation to the expansion (1.1, 1.2, 1.3, etc.). Vanilla WoW has had the largest amount of revisions, by far (1.1-1.9). WotLK has only had 3 major revisions (3.1-3.3).

Even these fixes don't really address what the user base feels. Just look at what the 4.0 patch is doing. No one in the PTR wanted the patch to go live, but it did. Now Mages are doing 25-27k DPS in ICC when everyone else is doing 14-15k. Now Hunters are completely unplayable in PVP. Blizzard won't be fixing that until Cataclysm's launch, I guarantee it. Their excuse? "The patch isn't balanced around level 80." That's great, except breaking game mechanics before the level cap is even raised past 80 is a pretty retarded thing to do.

robywar wrote:
The most recent big thing Blizzard backed down on from people complaining/quitting en masse was the RealID forum change. Tens of thousands of complaints on the forums and thousands of canceled accounts and they did a full 180 on their plans (which had been in the works for months internally) within a couple of days.

That's because it was a matter of PERSONAL SECURITY, which went against even their own EULA. Of course they had to change it, lest they be sued by tens of thousands of people. While similar from a financial standpoint, the two situations cannot be compared. I like to think I'm more logical in thinking that keeping my real life identity from being stolen is much more important than the lack of an in-game Auction House.
#45 Oct 15 2010 at 11:42 AM Rating: Good
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Yemmy wrote:
Yes, I am impressed with SE. That free month of playtime is their way of saying "We effed it up, sorry." And they did. I'm not gonna lie to anyone. Just because I have been enjoying myself in the game does not mean that I do not see the issues that others point out, or that I do not have my own issues with...well, I want this to be a short post, lol.

But if anyone was holding out for an apology from SE for the state of the game that they released, there it is. That free month is the closest you are gonna get. And it was a darn sight more than I expected from them.

So, in response to the "apology" I would like to say to SE that all will be forgiven when they take the gear for all of those crafting/gathering jobs they want me to level OUT of my numbered inventory. Seriously, the +1, +2 crap AND two pieces of gear per craft? You're KILLING me!

(Ooops! Impressed, yes...a lil bit.)


haha I hear you with the inventory thing. I'm basically ranking every class up and the majority of my inventory is filled with weapons/armor/tools. Then I've got normal/+1/+2/+3 for every piece of loot I grab. Argh, I want bigger inventory lol.
#46 Oct 15 2010 at 11:57 AM Rating: Good
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I have an 80 mage, priest and hunter. Bryndolyn, Osric and Holdenx all on Bleeding Hollow.

I don't play much right now, but have logged in since 4.0. Since 4.0 went live, ghostcrawler has been active addressing the changes- priests and mages were both nerfed and melee DPS was buffed.

Quote:
Class balance as of Oct 13, 2010
We made many changes yesterday. A lot of these were bug fixes, and many bug fixes will affect damage one way or the other. So just because you don't see a specific change referenced below, doesn't mean it didn't change.

With that said, here are the specific changes we made in reference to my previous post:

1) We buffed the base points and coefficients of many warrior dps abilities. We didn't do as much to tanking abilities.

We buffed the base points and coefficients of many Ret abilities.

We buffed the base points and coefficients of many Feral cat abilities.

2) We lowered the base points and coefficients of many mage abilities, but lowered Fire more than the other two.

3) We nerfed Shadow Word: Death, but it is possible we didn't nerf it enough. It should not be Shadow's biggest spell.

4) We returned Searing Pain's damage to its 3.3.5 levels.

5) We increased the benefit of resilience by 50% for players level 80 and below. The tooltips will probably not reflect this change.

We don't have any other changes to announce at this time. I am reluctant to mention additional classes or specs that we are looking at currently for fear of instilling excitement or panic.


What part of what I said was untrue? Do they not have official forums with their lead developer talking to and directly interacting with their players? Does a day frequently pass without a blue post? Is there not a PTR? Do they not release patch notes prior to the patch being live? (edit- I just checked. Today there are 10 non-stickied posts on the General Discussion forum alone which contain blue responses on just the first page. That's 10 topics on one forum on one page of recent posts that Blizzard has officially commented on. Imagine if Square did that.)

Of course they're not going to balance talent trees meant to go to 85 around lvl 80 play. Why should they? Did they release the new talent trees too early? Maybe, if you care a whole lot about end game content or PvP at this stage but most people are simply waiting for Cataclysm, which is less then 6 weeks away. 4.03 is expected in early-mid November, so really with the new content and changes that will add people will probably only care about end-game 80 stuff for 3 more weeks.

Edited, Oct 15th 2010 2:05pm by robywar
#47 Oct 15 2010 at 12:05 PM Rating: Good
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I'm impressed - very impressed! SE might just pull through! /cheer
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#48 Oct 15 2010 at 12:27 PM Rating: Default
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robywar wrote:
What part of what I said was untrue? Do they not have official forums with their lead developer talking to and directly interacting with their players? Does a day frequently pass without a blue post? Is there not a PTR? Do they not release patch notes prior to the patch being live? (edit- I just checked. Today there are 10 non-stickied posts on the General Discussion forum alone which contain blue responses on just the first page. That's 10 topics on one forum on one page of recent posts that Blizzard has officially commented on. Imagine if Square did that.)

Of course they're not going to balance talent trees meant to go to 85 around lvl 80 play. Why should they? Did they release the new talent trees too early? Maybe, if you care a whole lot about end game content or PvP at this stage but most people are simply waiting for Cataclysm, which is less then 6 weeks away. 4.03 is expected in early-mid November, so really with the new content and changes that will add people will probably only care about end-game 80 stuff for 3 more weeks.

Seems to me you might be one of the people who hang onto Ghostcrawler's every word. Ghostcrawler is exactly the developer I was talking about when I said that some devs don't even know how certain class mechanics work - at least not to the extent that the theorycrafting min/max players do - and only respond by saying, "We're trying to make the class more fun!"

Blue Post wrote:
Your game is not damaged. Things are beginning to rattle and hum in the world of Azeroth. What it could be ... no one knows yet. (At least from the lore/current story perspective.) From the outside looking in non-rp/story perspective. Deathwing is coming. Ducking and covering is not going to save you now!


Blue Post wrote:
We are continuing to work on ironing out existing bugs and also have additional work we are doing on the game. This patch is by no means the end of things and while the waters may be a little choppy right now, things will get smoother as we go along.


Blue Post wrote:
We always take constructive feedback. Not making changes based on that feedback does not mean we aren't listening. It just means we may have a larger piece of the picture we're working with and some ideas of what we need to accomplish for the future of the game as a whole. As you know, World of Warcraft is constantly evolving and we reserve the right to change our minds (or not change our minds) based on a variety of factors (including community feedback.) We do things with the constructive feedback we receive all the time. What we don't do is list which things we've changed based on that feedback.


Blue Post wrote:
The direct answer is yes, we do listen and we do read the feedback on the forums on a regular basis. It is important to remember though that we don’t always agree with you, and even when we do, that doesn’t mean we are ready to discuss our future plans. Even saying that we plan to make changes in the future can be an issue as players will get impatient if it takes awhile so we have to be careful with what we say.


Any of these sounding familiar yet? It's the same exact thing Square is doing. Why is it that you feel Blizzard is doing something better than Square when all the responses are exactly the same? Blizz is just better at sugarcoating it.

You don't think the class balance is off? Blizzard admitted they haven't even done the proper number passes yet before going live. All they've currently finished with the new class systems have been the class mechanics. I'll tell you right now that certain classes 1-shotting EVERYONE in PVP, or severely outdpsing everyone else in an endgame dungeon, is just as game breaking as the lack of an Auction House. If you don't think it should matter to people just before Cataclysm is launched, then what's the point of even logging in these days?

Both companies are constantly making changes to their games. Blizzard knows they went live with a patch that's gimped 70% of the playerbase, and they're responding in exactly the same way any other game company is responding. They're not doing it better, and Square isn't doing it worse. It boggles my mind how much hate is directed solely at Square when they're fixing things the way they should be fixing it.

Edited, Oct 15th 2010 2:29pm by SoumaKyou

Edited, Oct 15th 2010 2:30pm by SoumaKyou
#49 Oct 15 2010 at 12:39 PM Rating: Decent
Just looking at the ratings on this thread it seems the tide has turned. Where once people who promoted the game often got rated down, it seems that people, just by saying they're not impressed with the game are being rated down now. Now not that it's any of my business to tell people what, when or how they should rate, but it doesn't really seem right to rate people down just because they don't share your perspective, especially if they aren't being offensive. I've been fairly rated down for being offensive before and accept that, but remember the golden rule people. Though I am definitely a pro-ffxiv person, I know it doesn't feel nice to be rated down just because you shared an opinion. I haven't seen too many negative responses here that were offensive, yet they were almost all rated down to a man. Think we can do better guys :)
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#50 Oct 15 2010 at 12:42 PM Rating: Default
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charityneverfaileth wrote:
Just looking at the ratings on this thread it seems the tide has turned. Where once people who promoted the game often got rated down, it seems that people, just by saying they're not impressed with the game are being rated down now. Now not that it's any of my business to tell people what, when or how they should rate, but it doesn't really seem right to rate people down just because they don't share your perspective, especially if they aren't being offensive. I've been fairly rated down for being offensive before and accept that, but remember the golden rule people. Though I am definitely a pro-ffxiv person, I know it doesn't feel nice to be rated down just because you shared an opinion. I haven't seen too many negative responses here that were offensive, yet they were almost all rated down to a man. Think we can do better guys :)

Are you sure? The haters are getting rated up. I'm personally getting karma bombed for saying the game isn't that bad. I don't even care about the whole karma thing, but I do think it's amusing.
#51 Oct 15 2010 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
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Cyrus11 wrote:
Anybody else impressed with how fast SE is patching some of these issues?

I got Starcraft 2 shortly after release and it took them over a month to release the first balance patch. They also haven't added things like chat rooms or clan support which everyone is pretty peeved about. There was a lot of negative criticism towards Blizzard for the lack of speed in their updates and their lack of communication with the community, despite having official boards.

I'm just comparing the FFXIV release to the SC2 release and SE seems to be fixing what needs to be fixed and doing it fast. Granted this release is a complete disaster, where SC2 was a decent game right out of the gate so I guess they need to get their asses in gear.

Also, I might be saying this a little bit early. I just know that they patched last week and fixed a bunch of key issues people were having (group exp, chatting while crafting, etc.) and they also said they would be fixing the retainer issue, which it appears they are doing this week (maintenance scheduled for the 15th). They have also mentioned that the UI is their top priority so I expect some improvements there as well in the near future.

I guess what I'm saying is that assuming they keep patching the game as often as they seem to be, and assuming those patches continue to be important fixes, like they seem to be, I will be quite impressed with SE's damage control and they might actually be able to save this trainwreck of a game. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy the game despite all the problems, so I'm happy to see them fixing things so I can enjoy it even more.

I know it's popular to bash SE here (which they deserve, quite frankly these patches are things that should have been fixed in BETA, or **** even before then) but they seem to be doing more than people give them credit for. They are acknowledging the problems and they appear to be fixing them in a timely manner. Of course they didn't come out and say "oops our game is a POS, sorry" like everyone wants them to. But they admit the retainer system sucks, they acknowledge that everyone hates the UI, and they asked reviewers to wait a month to review the game, which tells me they are planning on making some big changes in the next month.

My point is that the future looks promising for this game. I absolutely agree that they messed up big time with the release, and should have fixed a lot of these issues prior to release. However, what's done is done and from where we are now I'm thinking that most of the issues will be resolved by the time the playstation release hits. I personally enjoy this game already, so I'm happy to see the improvements come and looking forward to continue playing.

Just my little reverse-rant to balance out all the ranting the rest of you are doing :)


I agree with you. These are certainly steps in the right direction. The fact that they're giving an extra month free is a major admission of problems, but also an encouraging sign that they're going to fix things.
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