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Foreseen failure of NEW WARDSFollow

#1 Oct 13 2010 at 8:13 PM Rating: Default
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The new improved ward will be worse. With only limited 10 bazaar slots per retainer atm it is going to be much worse with the new system. The wards are going to be categorized into areas for different wares such as armory, weapon, potion, food ward etc
With this new system you will be charged higher tariffs for vendoring wares that do not tally with the categorized ward. What this means is that ppl are going to be forced to: (1) sell only one category of ware on each retainer and with already very limited inventory space most other stuff are going to be discardsold to npcs. (2) Or pay $ for more retainers.
Even with this new ward you u will probably have to teleport dozens of times over the different wards while doing your shopping.
Just give us the AH.
#2 Oct 13 2010 at 8:18 PM Rating: Default
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Hold on.

Now you're talking about it sucking for sellers. That does suck but at least it won't totally suck for buyers anymore and that is total win.

I don't even use a retainer right now, I just bazaar overnight, so this will actually be win for me as a seller too.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 10:19pm by rikkuotaku
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#3 Oct 13 2010 at 8:21 PM Rating: Default
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here's an idea. everyone quit ******** about the lack of AH because there are WAY more important issues that need to be fixed.

edit: in fact everyone QQing about the Market Wards is just making it easier for SE to toss us old smelly rotten bones like this renaming "fix" to placate us, meanwhile we're setting aside half-hour timeslots to npc loot since they borrowed the UI from Ms.Pacman.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 10:25pm by Llester
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#4 Oct 13 2010 at 8:27 PM Rating: Default
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I enjoy ******** more than playing the game hohoho
#5 Oct 13 2010 at 8:30 PM Rating: Good
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pec wrote:

With this new system you will be charged higher tariffs for vendoring wares that do not tally with the categorized ward.


No.

When you sell an item in the designated ward, you will have a reduced tax on the item. Nothing will change if you sell a different item than the ward is intended for.
#6 Oct 13 2010 at 9:30 PM Rating: Good
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Market wards and retainers: Square Nerf Bat - It really will be the downfall of the game. No patch will make up for it, and no content release will ever fix anything that they try to do with this game if they keep pressing on with this "feature".

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 11:31pm by Parsalyn
#7 Oct 13 2010 at 9:35 PM Rating: Good
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Aristio wrote:
pec wrote:

With this new system you will be charged higher tariffs for vendoring wares that do not tally with the categorized ward.


No.

When you sell an item in the designated ward, you will have a reduced tax on the item. Nothing will change if you sell a different item than the ward is intended for.


Exactly...a reduced tax if you sell items meant for that ward. For selling other items, it'll be the same tax it is now. And there will be some direction in where to look for certain items. That is better, not worse...

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 11:36pm by TwistedOwl
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#8 Oct 13 2010 at 9:43 PM Rating: Decent
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No doubt the system as described will be pretty lousy, but hey, it is slightly less lousy than what we have now. I don't like getting punched in the face, but I'll take it over being stabbed in the stomach. And my ever-sunny optimism is thinking that the quicker they try horrible fixes of the game's commerce, the sooner they'll accidentally stumble onto an actual one.
#9 Oct 13 2010 at 9:58 PM Rating: Good
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Well.. I feel the new system could work, but making it even better for buyers will even things out.

I do not want to walk into a ward like how they look now, just a huge mess of retainers standing around. I want to see different colored and decorated rooms, maybe a fountain, a sunken room for this and that, paintings on the walls. Imagine wanting some Fish Glue and you ask someone who has it on their retainer, he says "Go find my retainer" and you look for it in this huge mess. With colored and decorated rooms, it adds atmosphere, personality, and direction to selling. He could say "Go look for my retainer, name is Bob, he is in the Crimson section". A shout could be "Fish glue for sale! Alchemy Ward / Crimson! 1k!" or so.
#10 Oct 13 2010 at 10:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Or they could implement a search engine and stop wasting everyone's time. If I want to go to the mall and waste half of a day I will, but if I am paying for a service, then it better be quick to use like E-Bay. I really think that the developers are so out of touch with this concept, that the game will dig its own grave quicker than anyone can speculate. R.I.P. FFXIV 2011 - Well at least it will be a free game to play by then.
#11 Oct 13 2010 at 10:10 PM Rating: Decent
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This system is a poor one. I'll give my reason why..

I want to sell shards.
Maybe I'm willing to charge 3% less than most others to sell mine faster.
I see that the armor ward is more popular than the shard ward.
I put my retainer in the armor ward, so that due to decreased competition, and increased traffic flow, I'm selling more shards than the average people in the shard ward.
Multiply this by everyone who has this idea.

this system will not 'fix' anything. Its un-enforceable. someone may have to sift through less crap to find what they are looking for, but they will still have to search through some amount of crap.
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#12 Oct 13 2010 at 10:18 PM Rating: Good
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rikkuotaku wrote:
Hold on.

Now you're talking about it sucking for sellers. That does suck but at least it won't totally suck for buyers anymore and that is total win.


I think you're going to be disappointed. With just one retainer (assuming the patch doesn't also introduce more retainers available), and the fact that players don't just sell one type of item, it's highly unlikely the wards will organize themselves to the point of usefulness for both seller and buyer.

The wards will still be a jumbled mess of mystery-box items. The only thing this patch is going to do is increase the probability that retainers in certain wards will have at least one item that's related to what you're searching for.

I'm not so sure that's a gain for anyone, honestly.

Edited, Oct 14th 2010 12:20am by Whales
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#13 Oct 13 2010 at 10:29 PM Rating: Decent
pec wrote:
The new improved ward will be worse. With only limited 10 bazaar slots per retainer atm it is going to be much worse with the new system. The wards are going to be categorized into areas for different wares such as armory, weapon, potion, food ward etc
With this new system you will be charged higher tariffs for vendoring wares that do not tally with the categorized ward. What this means is that ppl are going to be forced to: (1) sell only one category of ware on each retainer and with already very limited inventory space most other stuff are going to be discardsold to npcs. (2) Or pay $ for more retainers.
Even with this new ward you u will probably have to teleport dozens of times over the different wards while doing your shopping.
Just give us the AH.


I've got an idea...how about you inform yourself before you try to inform us?

There won't be a higher tax than present for selling goods not designated for the ward your retainer is in. The current rate of tax for bazaar and retainer sales is 10%. Unless SE changes something, if you're selling something not fitting with the ward your retainer is in, the tax will be...10%. If you ARE selling something that lines up with the designation of the ward your retainer is in, the tax will be 5%.

See how that works? They aren't adding extra tax for selling in the "wrong" ward...they're offering a tax reduction for selling in the right ward.

And for an MMO that only charges $12.99/month, you can add 2 extra retainers and still be paying a monthly fee in line with what a lot of other MMOs charge so it's not like they're gouging anyone. If anything, they're charging less/month unless you want extra storage in which case the fee comes closer in line with the competition.

So if yer gonna *****, be right. Otherwise you just look ridiculous.
#14 Oct 13 2010 at 10:51 PM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:
This system is a poor one. I'll give my reason why..

I want to sell shards.
Maybe I'm willing to charge 3% less than most others to sell mine faster.
I see that the armor ward is more popular than the shard ward.
I put my retainer in the armor ward, so that due to decreased competition, and increased traffic flow, I'm selling more shards than the average people in the shard ward.
Multiply this by everyone who has this idea.

this system will not 'fix' anything. Its un-enforceable. someone may have to sift through less crap to find what they are looking for, but they will still have to search through some amount of crap.


Think as a shopper... Do you go into a Best Buy to get shoes? No. So now think as a person who wants shards. You will go to the shard ward to buy shards. It will take a crafter a few seconds to find enough shards and go back to crafting. You will not care that there is a shard seller at the armor ward selling shards unless the price they are offering is outrageously good and catches your eye. Chances are people browsing in Armor ward are interested in a piece of armor.

The sellers and buyers will enforce the market. People who want to sell items quicker will put them in the right ward. People who want a specific item quickly will go to the right ward.
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#15 Oct 13 2010 at 11:10 PM Rating: Good
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SirHypnotoad wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
This system is a poor one. I'll give my reason why..

I want to sell shards.
Maybe I'm willing to charge 3% less than most others to sell mine faster.
I see that the armor ward is more popular than the shard ward.
I put my retainer in the armor ward, so that due to decreased competition, and increased traffic flow, I'm selling more shards than the average people in the shard ward.
Multiply this by everyone who has this idea.

this system will not 'fix' anything. Its un-enforceable. someone may have to sift through less crap to find what they are looking for, but they will still have to search through some amount of crap.


Think as a shopper... Do you go into a Best Buy to get shoes? No. So now think as a person who wants shards. You will go to the shard ward to buy shards. It will take a crafter a few seconds to find enough shards and go back to crafting. You will not care that there is a shard seller at the armor ward selling shards unless the price they are offering is outrageously good and catches your eye. Chances are people browsing in Armor ward are interested in a piece of armor.

The sellers and buyers will enforce the market. People who want to sell items quicker will put them in the right ward. People who want a specific item quickly will go to the right ward.


Square's scenario will not work, just as you described. They have set it up so that when an update hits, as far as I have read, is that you could actually go to the "Bestbuy Ward" and buy shoes. This is because it is only setup to optimize the taxing system for players selling goods in each market.

If they actually asked what the player wants, they would stare at them and say search engine.
#16 Oct 13 2010 at 11:21 PM Rating: Decent
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pec wrote:
The new improved ward will be worse. With only limited 10 bazaar slots per retainer atm it is going to be much worse with the new system. The wards are going to be categorized into areas for different wares such as armory, weapon, potion, food ward etc
With this new system you will be charged higher tariffs for vendoring wares that do not tally with the categorized ward. What this means is that ppl are going to be forced to: (1) sell only one category of ware on each retainer and with already very limited inventory space most other stuff are going to be discardsold to npcs. (2) Or pay $ for more retainers.
Even with this new ward you u will probably have to teleport dozens of times over the different wards while doing your shopping.
Just give us the AH.

A little preemptive hate trolling?
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#17 Oct 13 2010 at 11:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Not gonna work for me for sure (as a seller). I have 3 different crafts + a D0L and continuously selling as much of a variety of (useful) stuff as I can, from whatever craft in order to move things (and help ppl not lose their time when they open my bazaar, I wish more ppl had this attitude...)
With the new concept, unless I plan to have 4 retainers, each dedicated to 1 activity (but then the headache to manage them is gonna be painful, especially since I will have to teleport from ward to ward to manage them....)I will just keep doing what I do and sell a variety of stuff on 1 or 2 retainer max. If everybody does that, nothing is gonna get organized and we will see really little improvement.

Search function (at least the names of the retainers holding specific items and a precise indication or where they are in the mumbo-jumbo lagfest place that are wards) is mandatory. If they want to exclude price from the information to force us to browse and avoid a market price (which I find stupid, it will just slow down the economy), so be it, but I want to know exactly where I can find antilope sinew cord and other things w/o spending 30min just to find some overpriced ones....

Edited, Oct 14th 2010 2:18am by Anurid
#18 Oct 14 2010 at 12:03 AM Rating: Default
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Yes you will be charged higher tariffs (if you sell in the wrong ward) than items sold in the correct category ward which will have reduced taxes. So basically for ppl who sell different items on a retainer they are disadvantaged as they are paying higher taxes than ppl selling one category of item on a retainer.
So most ppls are just gonna continue setting up multiple category bazaar which is still disorganized.
And ppl with malevolent intent , such as you, would also purposely mismatch bazaar/wards to make peoples live worse off.
This game makes me want to rant all day long
#19 Oct 14 2010 at 12:03 AM Rating: Decent
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A search function would be best, sure.

But absent that, sorting out will help some. Okay, you're a crafter with multiple product lines; pick some items, sell 'em, move your retainer when you're done. Or put half and half and suck up an extra 5% tax. But the thing about the sorting is that people that want a particular type of item are going to go to a particular ward. If I want shoes, I go to the footwear ward; if I find shards there, well, I ain't in the market for those today... and you're guaranteeing that the people who ARE in the market, and who go to the Shard Ward, aren't going to find you at all.

Being able to find things that you're looking for, or at least in the general category, is a big advantage over "oh look, another bazaar full of +1 marmot parts and rock salt, that's only the 20th one... what did I even want to buy again?"
#20 Oct 14 2010 at 12:06 AM Rating: Decent
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I like the wards idea, but I know many hate it. If it makes you all feel better, there is an unused building in Limsa off the docks with what appears to be an auction house sign on it. I imagine there will be an auction house there eventually.
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#21 Oct 14 2010 at 12:15 AM Rating: Decent
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To be clear, the seller in me think the specialized ward are gonna be a failure, but the buyer in me has great hope XD
Hard to reconcille the 2 :)
Bottom line, it will just depends on how many ppl are multi craft ppl like me or single craft (or better organized) ppl.
I really don't mind the tax disavantage as a seller, I just fear that if everybody does like me as a seller and disregard the new organization, the buyer in me still won't find his antillop sinew cord easily Q_Q
#22 Oct 14 2010 at 12:55 AM Rating: Good
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Just implement the AH.
A centralized search system is the best. Bringing us back to the stone age will not solve the RMT problem. There are many other better ways to remove RMTs.
Having to look thru thousands of retainers searching for yr piece of body armor in the clothiers ward is still inefficient.
#23 Oct 14 2010 at 12:57 AM Rating: Decent
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This.
I have better things to do with my limited playtime than sorting through 2000 retainers.
And cutting that number down to 200 in a specialized ward doesn't change a thing.
#24 Oct 14 2010 at 1:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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How about this? The market ward change is coming soon, an AH is still a way off, so give this change a chance before you step all over it.
And to those people who are going to intentionally abuse it, you're not really helping anyone are you?
For those who will be selling a mix of goods, you'll just have to bite the bullet and stick them where the majority of your stuff belongs, but remember this, your tax will be no higher than it is now (unless they increase it rather has decrease).

But yeah, give it a go first, then you can have the I told you so satisfaction later if you like.
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#25 Oct 14 2010 at 1:20 AM Rating: Decent
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@Kreisash
We already had enough of the latter.
Been here since CB, and getting tired of having to say "I told you so, I told you so" over and over.

Edit:
Hm. Looks like I have lost faith in SE after all. How come, I ask?

Edited, Oct 14th 2010 3:21am by Rinsui
#26 Oct 14 2010 at 1:34 AM Rating: Decent
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New system will be fine, retainer system needs a few tweaks but I do like it.
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#27 Oct 14 2010 at 3:08 AM Rating: Decent
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This fixes nothing. We need a search function of some sort whether that search function lists prices or not. The only thing this will do is force some people get more retainers. To think that someone will sell only items relevant to a specific ward is a retarded notion. People will still have mixed bags so this little "fix" is *********

Not everyone can level every craft out there. With the way the crafting system is crafters need a viable way to sell their goods to other crafters without having to spend possibly hours on end to find what they're looking for. This is a game, not a shopping simulator.
#28 Oct 14 2010 at 4:57 AM Rating: Good
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So... there will still be several hundred NPCs standing in a room, overlapping each other, with no indication of who has what, that i must individually browse by tabbing through them or clicking on them? Some fix.
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#29 Oct 14 2010 at 6:08 AM Rating: Good
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Well if even only 50% of people stick their retainers where they 'should' be the massive zombie convention will decrease rapidly.

I don't know if you've noticed but there are 3 pages of market wards, each with about 7 wards on a page.

When I was poking around I see about 60-70% of retainers in the first 2 wards, then the % decreases rapidly almost exponentially as you go down the list.

Of course it needs to be made more clear to users that there are so many wards (multiple pages) to choose from, but when I went into the last ward on the first page there were about 5-10 retainers. I'm sure this number drops to 0 by about the 3 market on the second page.

Lets look at this with theoretical numbers now.

2000 retainers,
40% in ward one (800)
30% in ward 2 (600)
15% in ward 3 (300)
10% in ward 4 (200)
3% in ward 5 (60)
1% in ward 6 (20)
0.5% in ward 7 (10)
0.2% in ward 8 (4)
0.2% in ward 9 (4)
0.1% in ward 10 (2)
0% in wards 11-20

Note: just checked and there will be 20 wards.

Now even doing something as trivial as halving all of those numbers and placing the mirror into the latter 10 will ease a lot of congestion. There will be wards with a higher population than others as well as stragglers, but in theory the distribution will be more even than it is now.

I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with the retainers as they are, but I am saying give things a go and just because you're not getting what you want right now, it doesn't mean you have to be selfish about it. Make the best of what you're given for now and help towards a solution instead of contributing to a problem.
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#30 Oct 14 2010 at 6:09 AM Rating: Decent
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For the hundredth time, they've already said that extra retainers will most likely be purchased using IN-GAME GIL. Not cold, hard cash. Read the article on the Lodestone before you add to the cesspool.
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#31 Oct 14 2010 at 7:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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With the absence of a search function, I've found these sites to be extremely useful:

http://ffxiv.yg.com/bazaar
http://www.ffxivpro.com/

The more people that actively use them, the better they will become.
#32 Oct 14 2010 at 7:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Llester wrote:
here's an idea. everyone quit ******** about the lack of AH because there are WAY more important issues that need to be fixed.

edit: in fact everyone QQing about the Market Wards is just making it easier for SE to toss us old smelly rotten bones like this renaming "fix" to placate us, meanwhile we're setting aside half-hour timeslots to npc loot since they borrowed the UI from Ms.Pacman.

Edited, Oct 13th 2010 10:25pm by Llester


C'mon now... Let's not go dragging Ms. Pacman through the muck...



@OP did you play FFXI? If you did, are you seriously saying that you did not have any mules? I have no problem dishing out $5/month for an extra 5 retainers... I could use the inventory space. I would rather see an UI fix than a market or AH "fix".

I've gotten used to not having an AH. The only thing that slows me down, is the speed of opening and closing bazaars. If we could open and close bazaars as quickly as we did in 11, I would sincerely be 100% ok with not having an auction house.

Edited, Oct 14th 2010 9:14am by irtehscarry

Holy crap typos galore...

Edited, Oct 14th 2010 9:15am by irtehscarry
#33 Oct 14 2010 at 3:32 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
There will be wards with a higher population than others as well as stragglers, but in theory the distribution will be more even than it is now.


This is true, what Square forgot to take into consideration though is the laziness and unwillingness to learn of a lot of people. There were people in XI who would make Gil selling overpriced items to people on the auction house that those people could have bought at an NPC right next to the auction house at a lower price. That is why this will never really work.

If I may speak so boldly, most people who are against this simply want some sort of search function, even if that means there are no prices listed and I have to bring my **** over to different wards each time I want to buy something. At least that way I can find what I'm looking for.
#34 Oct 14 2010 at 3:36 PM Rating: Decent
Dallie wrote:
For the hundredth time, they've already said that extra retainers will most likely be purchased using IN-GAME GIL. Not cold, hard cash. Read the article on the Lodestone before you add to the cesspool.


Have a link? Not seeing it on lodestone and the only information I've read says quite the opposite.
#35 Oct 14 2010 at 4:19 PM Rating: Good
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Dallie wrote:
For the hundredth time, they've already said that extra retainers will most likely be purchased using IN-GAME GIL. Not cold, hard cash. Read the article on the Lodestone before you add to the cesspool.



http://support.na.square-enix.com/faqarticle.php?kid=56835&id=902&la=1&ret=faq&pv=10&page=0&c=0&sc=0&so=4&q=retainer

Here's my link from the support page. It says you WILL be able to purchase retainers for $1/mo each.
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