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Finally EXACTLY what we needed to hear from SEFollow

#102Clydey2Times, Posted: Oct 15 2010 at 8:25 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I'm over the moon and feeling somewhat vindicated, after the incessant whining about how SE will simply ignore the fans and just allow the game to fail, like a bunch of business-illiterate morons.
#103 Oct 15 2010 at 8:33 PM Rating: Default
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This... this actually brought a tear to my eye. SE can change! They can change! I'm glad I gave them a chance to prove to me that they want to do right by their players from the start, instead of taking almost a decade to [properly] listen like in FFXI.

I hope they keep up this level of communication. I don't think they need to be as vocal as Blizzard is with WoW (which often causes problems in and of itself), but I certainly want to see them talking a lot more about what they intend to do with the game and why.

I'm so happy right now I don't quite know what to do with myself.
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#104 Oct 15 2010 at 9:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'm over the moon and feeling somewhat vindicated, after the incessant whining about how SE will simply ignore the fans and just allow the game to fail, like a bunch of business-illiterate morons.

I do hope the people who promoted that line of thought are feeling a bit silly now.


Easy to please, are we? You do realize that nothing has changed as of yet, and all we have is a bunch of
"we will look into" promises for sometime in 2 months? Have you been to fighter's ward yet? How many of
the retainers on your server are not selling any kind of weapon there? And what do you do when you want
to sell crystals, weapons and equipment, and get your stuff repaired overnight? Set it up where what is
most important to you of those things is sold? Then go afk for two days, and you'll have yet another
retainer standing in that ward with random items, because chances are those fitting the ward's designation
have already been sold.

The system is not "damaged" and "improvable". It's simply complete, utter BS.
#105 Oct 15 2010 at 9:18 PM Rating: Good
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"Players will be able to target party members via the party member list"


yay for unsuck healing!!!
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#106 Oct 15 2010 at 9:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Easy to please, are we?


No, I simply don't share your overbearing pessimism.

Quote:
You do realize that nothing has changed as of yet, and all we have is a bunch of "we will look into" promises for sometime in 2 months?


Actually, they've stated that they will address those issues within the next 2 months. They didn't say they would just look into them. Why twist the facts?

Quote:
Have you been to fighter's ward yet? How many ofthe retainers on your server are not selling any kind of weapon there? And what do you do when you want to sell crystals, weapons and equipment, and get your stuff repaired overnight?


What does that have to do with the upcoming changes they have announced? The search function renders your point moot. You'll have to find something else to whine about.

Quote:
The system is not "damaged" and "improvable". It's simply complete, utter BS.


That's your opinion. I simply don't share it.

If you think the game is so irredeemably poor, why are you hanging around the forum like a bad smell? You have already convinced yourself that it's a lost cause. Surely it would be wise to move on?
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#107 Oct 15 2010 at 9:56 PM Rating: Default
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So it begins. . .
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#108 Oct 15 2010 at 10:08 PM Rating: Decent
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digitalcraft, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
So let me get this straight... You can go in, enter in the name of the thing you want (enter in the name right? Not already have one in your inventory to search for?) and it will look through all the retainers, gather a list of the ones selling the items, but INSTEAD OF giving you that list with prices for you to purchase off of, they instead do not give you the list but go back and put a dot on the names of the retainers who have the item and then you have to go search every retainer with the dot for prices?


Come on, this is SE we're talking about....

...the retainers will give you a cutscene informing you that they have the item you've searched for once you've selected a retainer and inspected him :p
#109chomama, Posted: Oct 15 2010 at 10:18 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Gonna be funny to see al the ppl who quit come back. Just like with ffxi. . .
#110 Oct 15 2010 at 10:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sir SamusKnight wrote:
I have to wonder why it actually took SE this long to finally begin some serious damage control. It's a welcomed change at least and as long as they follow through with these promises I think I'll be happy enough to stay around.


I think the massive amount of feedback they mentioned was secondary to two things...the horrendous reviews from NA and JP sites, and the number of people pushing that Cancel button. Which included me.
I really really wish I could've been a fly on the wall at SE headquarters for the last 10 days.

I'm glad they've pulled their collective head out of their posterior, it sounds like you guys are getting a lot of problems solved and I wish everyone good times.


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#111chomama, Posted: Oct 15 2010 at 11:09 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You have to keep in mind they get a second chance for reviews in March. I think they always knew that enough players would stick it out with the loyalties that exist and incentives (another 30 days free and some good patches in the following months). Now that I think about it, its a pretty good marketing strategy to plan two launches (I believe a certain computer company that rhymes with Snapple does something similar) . I know MANY MANY will disagree with me on that. What do you all think?
#112 Oct 15 2010 at 11:38 PM Rating: Good
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chomama wrote:
(another 30 months free and some good patches in the following months).


30 months free!? Where do I sign up for that?
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#113 Oct 16 2010 at 1:01 AM Rating: Good
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I would like to see those changes added and see where the game is going.
If done properly, it can increase the quality of the sky through the roof. After that, the biggest change we would need is the crafting menu (too many clicks) and a lot of other minors changes.
#114Llester, Posted: Oct 16 2010 at 1:17 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) wow. i don't say that word often because i find it irritating, but wow. SE really surprised me. This whole time we've been complaining, critiquing and giving feedback, SE has been sitting quietly. Turns out they really were reading everything. Even the chronic complainers who can't see anything praiseworthy about the game (and there is much to be praised in this game, and much to reward the patient player); SE read their crap too.
#115 Oct 16 2010 at 11:21 AM Rating: Decent
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I dont feel like the free month is a good thing at all, we have to keep paying FFXI (which i dont play anymore) going for another 30 days till they are both out of their free trial periods and get the boots =/ (by which time they will be kind of useless to me)
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#116 Oct 16 2010 at 1:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Reebie wrote:
I dont feel like the free month is a good thing at all, we have to keep paying FFXI (which i dont play anymore) going for another 30 days till they are both out of their free trial periods and get the boots =/ (by which time they will be kind of useless to me)


Only FFXI has to be out of free trial period. You get the Hermes' shoes as soon as you create your character in FFXIV.

So again, this extension does NOT affect Hermes' shoes.
#117 Oct 16 2010 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent
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The director's note really doesn't provide much other than the changes that were desperately needed to market wards. It is nice to hear that they understand that the UI they provided to navigate this game is a mess. Other than the icons associated with retainers this is just more of the "look forward to changes in the future" talk. The free month is basically them admitting that the game isn't worth your money. Kinda sad that it wasn't accompanied by an apology, but at least it's a step away from the denial they seem to have been in regarding the release issues.

Looking over the list of Ask the Devs I almost laughed at the so called 'improvements'. I mean, just look at the first category and it soon becomes clear that they didn't cover the basics when implementing features during development. Pretty much everything on these lists falls into four categories:

A feature from XI that somehow was left out of this game for whatever reason.
A feature from 'that other game'.
A feature that isn't really needed, but makes the list of additions look better?

All of them should have been added since the beginning.
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#118 Oct 16 2010 at 2:00 PM Rating: Good
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It's certainly good news, and I'm pleased to hear that they're taking their feedback seriously. The extra month of play is a particularly savvy move, because they need to ensure that players will hang around to see the changes.

I'm not celebrating yet, though. I'll be waiting to see if these patches roll out on schedule, and that they don't cause SE to lag behind with other content updates. There are also many more concerns that need to be addressed, as well.

It's a step in the right direction, but to be honest, SE needs to work their butts off just to get back to neutral in my eyes. There's enough here to sate me for the time being; to get me to wait a bit longer and see how things develop. But I'm not ready to start singing SE's praises by a long shot.
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#119 Oct 16 2010 at 2:40 PM Rating: Decent
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I really don't see anything worth coming back to. They're fixing basic things.. the design is still poor and the game will still be bland. :shrugs: Have fun running into invisible walls I guess, now new and improved with less ui lag.
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#120 Oct 16 2010 at 3:04 PM Rating: Default
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
The director's note really doesn't provide much other than the changes that were desperately needed to market wards. It is nice to hear that they understand that the UI they provided to navigate this game is a mess. Other than the icons associated with retainers this is just more of the "look forward to changes in the future" talk. The free month is basically them admitting that the game isn't worth your money. Kinda sad that it wasn't accompanied by an apology, but at least it's a step away from the denial they seem to have been in regarding the release issues.

"Considering the nature of much of the feedback we received, however, and the current state of the game, we have decided to extend the free trial period for all users"
- If that's not directly admitting that the game isn't worth the money, then I dunno what is. =P It doesn't get much more straight up than that IMO. I mean obviously they're not going to say "lol we F'd up bad"... As far as communication from a large company like SE, I'd basically call that as close as you'll ever see to saying "We are sorry for F'ing up"

Quote:

Looking over the list of Ask the Devs I almost laughed at the so called 'improvements'. I mean, just look at the first category and it soon becomes clear that they didn't cover the basics when implementing features during development. Pretty much everything on these lists falls into four categories:

A feature from XI that somehow was left out of this game for whatever reason.
A feature from 'that other game'.
A feature that isn't really needed, but makes the list of additions look better?

All of them should have been added since the beginning.


I agree with you that all of these things should have been there since the beginning, but we're kind of beating a dead horse with that fact IMO. I don't think there's a single person on here that disagrees with the fact that they rushed the game out. They set a VERY aggressive release date, and had to make some major cutbacks to throw together a "playable" game by that date. I'm not by any means saying that was a cool business move, but hearing that it's all getting fixed and brought to where it should have been at release is verrry comforting....especially since.... I really LOVE the actual game. ;)
#121 Oct 16 2010 at 3:33 PM Rating: Default
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And all was well with the world.

The End.
#122 Oct 16 2010 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
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Eldonia wrote:
"Considering the nature of much of the feedback we received, however, and the current state of the game, we have decided to extend the free trial period for all users"
- If that's not directly admitting that the game isn't worth the money, then I dunno what is. =P It doesn't get much more straight up than that IMO. I mean obviously they're not going to say "lol we F'd up bad"... As far as communication from a large company like SE, I'd basically call that as close as you'll ever see to saying "We are sorry for F'ing up"


Actually fixing the problems would be the best form of apology. I'm just curious why people are almost clamoring over the little bit of shine these issues are finally getting. Aside from the market wards, which hadn't been implemented until later in beta, you could've found all the necessary feedback to correct these issues back in April/May.

Eldonia wrote:
I agree with you that all of these things should have been there since the beginning, but we're kind of beating a dead horse with that fact IMO. I don't think there's a single person on here that disagrees with the fact that they rushed the game out. They set a VERY aggressive release date, and had to make some major cutbacks to throw together a "playable" game by that date. I'm not by any means saying that was a cool business move, but hearing that it's all getting fixed and brought to where it should have been at release is verrry comforting....especially since.... I really LOVE the actual game. ;)

People try to, but they really can't anymore. I was bashed to **** and back on the alpha testing forums for suggesting that this game would not be in shape to play before 2011. The other thing is, it's not "all getting fixed". Half of these things are issues players could do without and don't really have an affect on gameplay. Stuff like adding a <pos> function seems to be there just to make the list look bigger. The things related to UI, party mechanics and other major issues people have are only being fed the typical blanket response of "we will continue to take a look at, we're investigating the possibility of, in the future we may make adjustments to..." and so on. For some people this is enough, but this is a dance I've seen many times from SE throughout FFXI, XIV alpha/beta and now after a depressing release.

As far as the free month goes I was simply stating that it's more of a "we're ************ response than a "we're sorry" response. They're hemorrhaging and doing what they need to do to control it.
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30 bucks is almost free

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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#123 Oct 16 2010 at 3:53 PM Rating: Good
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From the Message from the Director:

Quote:
Further changes we have planned for the near future, which will be coming sometime after the first version update, include the following:

Search feature to allow item searches by individual wards


Everyone caught this, right? While it's still early and we haven't seen anything yet, it looks like SE is going to do their best to avoid turning the Wards system into just a rudimentary Auction House, unfortunately.

Please SE, just give us an Auction House and move on to more important matters.

Edited, Oct 16th 2010 5:56pm by Whales
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#124 Oct 16 2010 at 4:11 PM Rating: Default
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Whales wrote:
From the Message from the Director:

Quote:
Further changes we have planned for the near future, which will be coming sometime after the first version update, include the following:

Search feature to allow item searches by individual wards


Actually, I think this will equate to shorter searches for items as long as you're searching the correct ward for the item. It depends on exactly how it will be implemented, but if it is indeed related to specific wards it will cut down on search time and expedite the process better than a more general search tool. The more items you have to search, the less time you're out actually enjoying whatever you bought or were trying to find.

Edited, Oct 16th 2010 6:12pm by FilthMcNasty
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#125 Oct 16 2010 at 4:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Whales wrote:
From the Message from the Director:

Quote:
Further changes we have planned for the near future, which will be coming sometime after the first version update, include the following:

Search feature to allow item searches by individual wards


Actually, I think this will equate to shorter searches for items as long as you're searching the correct ward for the item. It depends on exactly how it will be implemented, but if it is indeed related to specific wards it will cut down on search time and expedite the process better than a more general search tool. The more items you have to search, the less time you're out actually enjoying whatever you bought or were trying to find.
This is assuming that people will want to sort their bazaars correctly (a vast majority don't on Bodhum yet, hopefully that changes). Also, it's still not addressing the problem of not being able to "properly" sell more than one type of item at once. If you mainly want to sell a conjurer weapon but also have some crafting materials you'd like to sell, people aren't going to be searching the magic ward for crafting material, they'll go to that crafting ward and never see the items in your bazaar.

The bigger problem is that SE is dead set on making market wards popular when a centralized auction house is by far a superior option, so they're going to do whatever they can to NOT implement the changes that need to be made in support of their own idea.

Edited, Oct 16th 2010 5:17pm by bsphil
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#126 Oct 16 2010 at 4:17 PM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Whales wrote:
From the Message from the Director:

Quote:
Further changes we have planned for the near future, which will be coming sometime after the first version update, include the following:

Search feature to allow item searches by individual wards


Actually, I think this will equate to shorter searches for items as long as you're searching the correct ward for the item. It depends on exactly how it will be implemented, but if it is indeed related to specific wards it will cut down on search time and expedite the process better than a more general search tool. The more items you have to search, the less time you're out actually enjoying whatever you bought or were trying to find.



Indeed, we need to see how this all comes together, but I doubt search times have anything to do with it. Given the probable number of active players and an item cap of 10, assuming multiple retainers, well, I know first-year CS students who can design databases to return results with that small dataset nearly instantly. Database indexing and searches shouldn't be a concern across the entire Ward system.

And actually if time spent at the Wards was the concern, it would be faster to have the search lumped all together, as it will take more time to search the dozen(?) wards individually than it would one all-encompassing query.
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#127 Oct 16 2010 at 4:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Google can search the entire internet in under 0.2 seconds. =p


As for the wards, I'm relatively confident they'll come up with a reasonable system. I'm guessing when they came up with the idea to begin with, whoever was pitching that ridiculous idea had to have had a pretty good plan for it... I mean we can call SE dumbasses all we want, but I still kinda doubt they just said "hey, you remember when we upped the AH fees in FFXI and everyone started selling their crap outside town in Batallia Downs? People LOVED that. We should just do that instead of an AH"

For them to have made such a bold decision to try something other than a standard AH, they had to have had a decent idea slated.



.........Maybe that's all just me being optimistic...time will tell.
#128 Oct 16 2010 at 5:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Reading through that list I think i'm picking this game up again come december (cuz uni is eating away every free minute i have now), I'm loving the additions, I think this game is going to be great but i just wasn't having fun with it earlier last month which led to me putting it aside, I still have it on my computer and just waiting to have time and enough incentive to start it up again, this all sounds awesome.
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#129 Oct 16 2010 at 6:44 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Whales wrote:
From the Message from the Director:

Quote:
Further changes we have planned for the near future, which will be coming sometime after the first version update, include the following:

Search feature to allow item searches by individual wards


Actually, I think this will equate to shorter searches for items as long as you're searching the correct ward for the item. It depends on exactly how it will be implemented, but if it is indeed related to specific wards it will cut down on search time and expedite the process better than a more general search tool. The more items you have to search, the less time you're out actually enjoying whatever you bought or were trying to find.
This is assuming that people will want to sort their bazaars correctly (a vast majority don't on Bodhum yet, hopefully that changes). Also, it's still not addressing the problem of not being able to "properly" sell more than one type of item at once. If you mainly want to sell a conjurer weapon but also have some crafting materials you'd like to sell, people aren't going to be searching the magic ward for crafting material, they'll go to that crafting ward and never see the items in your bazaar.

The bigger problem is that SE is dead set on making market wards popular when a centralized auction house is by far a superior option, so they're going to do whatever they can to NOT implement the changes that need to be made in support of their own idea.

Edited, Oct 16th 2010 5:17pm by bsphil


I'd assume they will if their sales are affected by it. I agree that the system is ******* but it's all you're getting. Either way, searching the incorrect ward for an item would still save loads of time over each individual retainer, but I think they're allowing for more retainers to cover the wards. Actually I take that back, it would make more sense to do it that way, but we'll have to wait and see. Baby steps that seem like giant strides at this point, but definitely steps in the right direction considering AH isn't on the horizon wherever you're facing.

Eldonia wrote:
Google can search the entire internet in under 0.2 seconds. =p

Poor comparison. SE can **** up a good idea in half that time anyway :P

Take a look at the only offering you have from SE for an auction system in FFXI and you'll see why. Waiting up to 10 seconds to load item lists when you browse AH categories. 3-5 second pause between when you place your bid and when you actually receive verification of winning the item. So on...

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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
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