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11 and 14 DiferencesFollow

#1 Oct 16 2010 at 11:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Hey just wondering if anyone has written up a good transition guide for those coming from XI. Major questions I am interested in:

-Death penalty (do you still loose xp and de-lvl)
-Roll of MNK/PGL class (are they now more of a tank than hardcore DD)
-It seems to be the consensus that the leveling up is faster (aside from fatigue), opinions?

-What is the general impression of XI players that have moved over to XIV?
-Is there any server that has a good PST/PDT crowd? Seems there were no good West Coast LS on my server in XI.
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#2 Oct 16 2010 at 11:18 AM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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hillsnr wrote:
Hey just wondering if anyone has written up a good transition guide for those coming from XI. Major questions I am interested in:

-Death penalty (do you still loose xp and de-lvl)
-Roll of MNK/PGL class (are they now more of a tank than hardcore DD)
-It seems to be the consensus that the leveling up is faster (aside from fatigue), opinions?

-What is the general impression of XI players that have moved over to XIV?
-Is there any server that has a good PST/PDT crowd? Seems there were no good West Coast LS on my server in XI.
There is no significant death penalty that I can see (weakness still exists, but it is 3 minutes instead of 5). I've heard that gear degrades on death but I'm not sure how much.

Pugilist is an evasion tank that can DD. Really not that much different from FFXI, honestly, where it was a DD that can evasion (& counter) tank. My friend that I've been playing with is a PUG main and he's usually tanking mobs because I take way too much damage on Lancer.

Leveling is far slower. The exp curve is a lot harsher than FFXI's ever was, and leveling actually works backwards in comparison. In XI the aim was to kill mobs as quickly as possible to maintain chains and raise the exp/hour, but in XIV the goal is to kill mobs slowly using as many basic attacks as possible to increase your chances of getting skillups during the fight. Essentially, imagine that the skillup system in FFXI is the actual leveling system in FFXIV. The more skillups you can get per fight, the faster you level.

Huge step downward, even when comparing releases. FFXI has a lot to do and a relatively decent interface in comparison to FFXIV. Content will obviously be slim in XIV but that's understandable. The problems go a lot deeper than that, though. They have taken many ideas from the core gameplay of XI and made them worse. They've promised to start working on improving those implementation decisions, but not until late november or december, and that's just when they plan to start releasing those changes, not when they're all due out.

Avoid Figaro since that's an unofficial JP server? I'm in CST so I don't really look for PST linkshells.



Edited, Oct 16th 2010 12:22pm by bsphil
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#3 Oct 16 2010 at 12:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Sorry about the TL:DR post...

Having played FFXI for a bit over two years, I can say that I'm really enjoying XIV so far BUT I can see why so many people are having a hard time liking it (understatement of the year..)

First with the bad:

- confusing as **** at first - the game doesn't give you ANY indications as to WTF you're supposed to do. if you didn't read about the game on sites like this one, good luck! I spent two hours getting my @$$ handed to me by mobs because I chose culinarian as a class when I created my character and I didn't know I couldn't fight as that (well, you can but you can't really do any damage..). Unlike FFXI, crafting is a separate "job" now. So whereas you could be a WAR or THF or whatever and at the same time cook, do clothcraft, etc in FFXI, now when you equip the craft's "weapon" (tool), that's the "job" you take on. Maybe I'm an idiot but that wasn't super clear to me at first (because it's so different from FFXI). I had to find a sword before I could start grinding away, and it's not like there are many NPCs selling weapons in this game..

- the market system SUCKS. you can spend hours in the market wards trying to find what you're looking for and still not find it. no AH means you have to go through everyone's bazaar one at a time. super tedious, unnecessary time-sink.

- UI is (not as bad as everyone says BUT) slow as molasses.

- SERIOUS LAG in cities will make you think your otherwise decent PC is crap. I don't have a monster rig but I get 30-45 FPS in open areas with almost all effects at high and 1920x1200 res, and yet that can drop to single-digits around the adventurer's guild or whatever it's called (where you get your quests from).

- but possibly the worst thing right now (and the least alarming IMO, because these things come with time) is the absence of CONTENT. There just really isn't that much to do.. And it makes you wonder why a company would release such a high-profile title in this state. Sure, you can grind and craft, but that's about it. "Levequests" are just more grinding and crafting with nice rewards attached to them (start them early on; it's totally worth it. I was always broke until I started doing them 2 days ago)
The story seems cool but the missions are too few and far between. This game needs more substance, BAD.





#4 Oct 16 2010 at 12:29 PM Rating: Good
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ladyclarissa wrote:
- the market system SUCKS. you can spend hours in the market wards trying to find what you're looking for and still not find it. no AH means you have to go through everyone's bazaar one at a time. super tedious, unnecessary time-sink.


I spent some time in there today, and it's not anywhere near as bad as you make it out to be. It was bad before the patch a few days ago, but now it's quite decent and certainly usable until more refinement is added in the future. I spent about 30 minutes in there and found many many items I wanted. I came out with a whole new set of equipment and 400k less gil =(

Quote:
- but possibly the worst thing right now (and the least alarming IMO, because these things come with time) is the absence of CONTENT. There just really isn't that much to do.. And it makes you wonder why a company would release such a high-profile title in this state. Sure, you can grind and craft, but that's about it. "Levequests" are just more grinding and crafting with nice rewards attached to them (start them early on; it's totally worth it. I was always broke until I started doing them 2 days ago)


What was there to do at level 20 in FFXI? Really not all that much. You could hardly even solo at that level on most jobs.

Quote:
- SERIOUS LAG in cities will make you think your otherwise decent PC is crap. I don't have a monster rig but I get 30-45 FPS in open areas with almost all effects at high and 1920x1200 res, and yet that can drop to single-digits around the adventurer's guild or whatever it's called (where you get your quests from).


Again, you're overstating this. I have virtually no lag in heavily populated areas except for about half a second while all the player characters load. I play at 1920x1080, 4xAA and everything else on high.

The game is far from perfect and does have issues, but the ones mentioned by this poster aren't so much a big deal.

Edited, Oct 16th 2010 2:33pm by Jeraziah
#5 Oct 16 2010 at 12:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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3 numbers.
#6 Oct 16 2010 at 12:46 PM Rating: Decent
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And now for the good...

(btw I don't know what the etiquette is regarding the use of bolding here but I bold main points so you don't have to read the entire thing to get the idea if you don't want to. I have a tendency to write TL:DR posts, I know..)


- absolutely magical game world. If your PC can handle higher settings, this game's a real beauty. I don't want to sound like a graphic ***** (I am, I admit it) but in an adventure game, good graphics really either immerse you in the game or they take you out of it. FFXIV totally rocks in this department. Music and sound effects are awesome too.

So if you enjoy exploring, you'll love it because every zone I've seen so far has been "pretty" at worst and absolutely STUNNING most of the time. I *really* don't get the reviews that said the world was bland and copy-pasted. sure, each area has its own "look and feel" but that's to be expected.

- new class system ROCKS. I didn't get it at first (because I'm a bit of an idiot) but the new class system is great. changing your weapon instantly changes your class, so you could be a fighter and then change to a healer on the fly (can't do it during a fight though).
That means, no more annoying trips to the moog house to change jobs!! Boy, is that ever an improvement! Speaking of moog houses, sadly those are gone too :( (I kinda liked the whole plant growing thing in FFXI..)

- crafting is more fun and engaging. Harvesting especially. kinda like a little mini-QTE game of sorts. it's not just 'select harvesting spot, press button' anymore. It's not MUCH, but it feels more like you're doing something (I especially like logging)

- harvesting spots are no longer "shared", which means no more racing to the spot first & the resulting frustration. yall can log the same tree at the same time and everyone's gotta get his/hers. I really like that.

- no real death penalty that I could notice. makes the game a lot less frustrating I find.

- insta-logout means no more getting aggroed by stupid yags when you're in a rush to quit the game. Noone's mentioning this but it's a big deal IMHO.

- you start with 80 slots in your inventory (I think it's cool). Crystals aren't counted in those spots. So you really have a lot less hassle in the item management department.

- much more solo-friendly (a big plus for me. don't always have time to LFP..)

#7 Oct 16 2010 at 12:49 PM Rating: Good
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ladyclarissa wrote:
- insta-logout means no more getting aggroed by stupid yags when you're in a rush to quit the game. Noone's mentioning this but it's a big deal IMHO.


Aside from the potential aggro issue, it's actually not any faster than FFXI's /shutdown since you have to backtrack all the menus you used to log in.
#8 Oct 16 2010 at 12:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Jeraziah wrote:
Again, you're overstating this. I have virtually no lag in heavily populated areas except for about half a second while all the player characters load. I play at 1920x1080, 4xAA and everything else on high.


I don't want to start a flame war but I don't think that describing what I experience (and what many others on these boards have described) is "overstating".

Seriously, if you're getting good frame rates in cities and around heavily populated areas, man, I ENVY you!! :D
because it's more like a slideshow on my end...

As for the market, sorry, but let's agree to disagree. I've been looking for a harpoon for three days now. I'm level 16, rank 14, and I'm still stuck with my stupid level 1 weathered spear because I couldn't for the life of me find a level 9 harpoon.

Again, maybe you lucked out during your trip to the wards, but most people seem to say that finding what you need is unnecessarily complicated and time-consuming. If XIV had an AH, I'd have gotten my harpoon a long time ago. That's just a fact.
#9 Oct 16 2010 at 12:58 PM Rating: Decent
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but to make it absolutely clear, as a fan of FFXI, even though right now XIV has its shortcomings, I'm not one of the haters. I absolutely LOVE the sense of adventure it gives me, and I want to play it all the time.

Seriously, I'm really enjoying it, but I can see why others wouldn't.

I just hope S-E fixes the issues that bother a lot of gamers out there because I would hate for this game to flop and die. I've been waiting for a next-gen online FF for what feels like an eternity and I'd really like to still be playing this with a large community two, three years from now. Right now the general consensus doesn't seem too promising... :(



Edited, Oct 16th 2010 2:59pm by ladyclarissa
#10 Oct 16 2010 at 1:03 PM Rating: Good
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ladyclarissa wrote:
Jeraziah wrote:
Again, you're overstating this. I have virtually no lag in heavily populated areas except for about half a second while all the player characters load. I play at 1920x1080, 4xAA and everything else on high.


I don't want to start a flame war but I don't think that describing what I experience (and what many others on these boards have described) is "overstating".

Seriously, if you're getting good frame rates in cities and around heavily populated areas, man, I ENVY you!! :D
because it's more like a slideshow on my end...

As for the market, sorry, but let's agree to disagree. I've been looking for a harpoon for three days now. I'm level 16, rank 14, and I'm still stuck with my stupid level 1 weathered spear because I couldn't for the life of me find a level 9 harpoon.

Again, maybe you lucked out during your trip to the wards, but most people seem to say that finding what you need is unnecessarily complicated and time-consuming. If XIV had an AH, I'd have gotten my harpoon a long time ago. That's just a fact.


You said in your post before that you're playing at 1920x1200. That's an extremely high resolution. I don't know what kind of hardware you have or your computer expertise but it's definitely within the realm of possibility that you're experiencing lag. I have a high end PC, capable of playing at high graphics. To me, that makes sense. I know many many people with midranged PCs and can play with their settings at a medium level. FFXIV is not the most optimized game in the world, but I think people are looking at old non-intensive games like WoW and wondering why they lag when they try and max the graphics out.

As for the market system, you have to realize that the players themselves need to do their part and make proper use of the system. I work during the weekdays and I don't know which day this patch came out, but I'm pretty sure it's less than a week old. On Selbina, the organization is actually pretty good so far considering the limited amount of time players have had with the new system and the fact we can still only have 1 retainer. The longer this system is in place, the more likely players will use it properly and the easier it should be for you to find an item you're looking for.
#11 Oct 16 2010 at 1:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I noticed the Miquote are usually actually girls this time around ^^

..at least on my server :)
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#12 Oct 16 2010 at 4:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lefein wrote:
I noticed the Miquote are usually actually girls this time around ^^

..at least on my server :)

You think they are atleast. ;-)

Edited, Oct 16th 2010 6:23pm by Faaeng
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#13 Oct 16 2010 at 4:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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hillsnr wrote:

-What is the general impression of XI players that have moved over to XIV?



I've played FFXI since ps2 launch, just to get that out of the way. There ARE some bad/frustrating things about 14, I won't deny. But really, my major complaints in the beginning seem to have disappeared. The lag/latency is still there a bit but it's much better. Not saying that when you get into the Adventurer's Guild it's not like Besieged waiting for people to pop up (sometimes people are there when I enter, sometimes I have to wait up to a minute for them to appear... used to have to wait EVERY time).

With the new divisions in the Market Ward it's much easier to find things now than it had been (and the addition of the search feature soon will make it even easier). I don't mind the retainer system too much. They just basically combined your Mule and your Mog House. Dump all your items on your retainer, plop them in Mule Alley, and sell stuff (limit of 8 items). Search is definately going to make it easier to find what you're looking for, but my main problem with no AH is that... well theres no good way to actually know whats out there. In XI you could just window shop the AH for what your future gear (minus r/e) was going to be. In XIV I really haven't got a clue what kinds of weapons or armor exists, let alone is available.

Travel is a TON easier. OMG it's so easy... You start out with all the maps and the main path is clearly defined. A rank 1 can travel from city to city with fair ease. A few spots you might have to wait to run past something but its not like trying to run through Jugner as level 1 thats for sure. Each City has camps in the zone outside of it. These are similar to Aht Urghan staging points. Once you've been to it once, you can teleport back at any time (any job, any rank.. as long as you have Anima for it.. only used for teleporting/returning and recharges a little every day). Along with the camps (which you can tele to from anywhere), spread out in the zone there are Nodes which you can also find. Each node is connected to a camp. You can warp from the camp to the node and vice versa. A comparison would be... Outpost warp from Sandy to the Dunes. Then once at the Outpost you can warp from there back to Sandy or to Selbina, Hidden Beach, Lizard Camp etc.

No more zone lines! (Mostly...) It's usually seamless going from zone to zone. The only thing you might notice is players names greying out or people's bazaars being unavailable. Run a bit past them though (and officially into the zone they're in) and back to normal. No zone lines means no zoning to escape aggro, but it's not much of a deal because the mobs are usually lazy. They've got their area and they won't run too far out of it to chase you down.

Jobs! You have a player level and a job rank. Every fight you win gives you both experience points (for your physical level) and skill points (for your weapon/job). I'm currently level 23, but rank 15 Gladiator, 10 Pugilist, 10 Marauder, 10 Lancer etc. Every physical level you gain you are awarded with stat points and elemental points. You're then in charge of where you put your stats. Want to put all 6 in Strength? Go for it! ... But oh no.. you've put all your points in your melee stats and now you're being asked to party as a conjurer. Have no fear because you can reassign your stats every 45 minutes!

Did you ever think "This PLD/NIN is pretty nice, but ****.. if I could just have a sub-subjob, or just somehow get access to Provoke this would be amazing!" (or another main/sub combo + extra skill) Well, now you CAN! After you've gained the knowledge of how use an ability from 1 job, you can then use that ability on all jobs. Even if the ability is learned at rank 20, you can use that as a rank 1 other job. This includes spells from the Thaumaturge and Conjurer classes. If you've gained access to it, your rank 1 Archer can be casting cure, or your rank 1 Marauder can be a wanna be DRK. Setting your abilities is similar to playing BLU. Once you've wielded whatever weapon you become that class. You then have 30 ability slots to fill with abilities. Each one is worth a set amount, and depending on your rank you can set X amount of points... so while I might have access to 5+ abilities for each of my 10 jobs, I can still only set 3-4 at a time due to point restrictions.

Crafting is a whole new thing. I hated crafting in 11. It was so mind numbingly borning. Now you actually have to pay attention to what you're doing and your actions have an outcome on your synth. Not to mention you also get physical experience for crafting as well as the skill points. ****, you could theoretically be level 30 but have never killed a single monster. Which leads me (back?) to leveling.

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#14 Oct 16 2010 at 4:54 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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AshlarThePaladin wrote:
Did you ever think "This PLD/NIN is pretty nice, but ****.. if I could just have a sub-subjob, or just somehow get access to Provoke this would be amazing!" (or another main/sub combo + extra skill) Well, now you CAN!
I like the subjob system in XI more than the mix-and-match system of XIV. Being only able to pick one subjob was a strategic choice that you had to make, and overall the game was better for having it. Being able to just take anything you want from any class only seems to blend the current classes down into small variations on the exact same class.

Right now, of the people I've partied with, everyone can cure, everyone can tank a bit, and everyone is a DD. It makes the gameplay much more bland, at least so far.

Edited, Oct 16th 2010 5:57pm by bsphil
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
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#15 Oct 16 2010 at 4:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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In FFXI you could sort your inventory.
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#16 Oct 16 2010 at 5:16 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
AshlarThePaladin wrote:
Did you ever think "This PLD/NIN is pretty nice, but ****.. if I could just have a sub-subjob, or just somehow get access to Provoke this would be amazing!" (or another main/sub combo + extra skill) Well, now you CAN!
I like the subjob system in XI more than the mix-and-match system of XIV. Being only able to pick one subjob was a strategic choice that you had to make, and overall the game was better for having it. Being able to just take anything you want from any class only seems to blend the current classes down into small variations on the exact same class.

Right now, of the people I've partied with, everyone can cure, everyone can tank a bit, and everyone is a DD. It makes the gameplay much more bland, at least so far.

Edited, Oct 16th 2010 5:57pm by bsphil


I definately feel what you're saying (didn't like 12 and 13 because of that), but I also believe it'll let us diversify ourselves. You could have 2 conjurers with entirely different setups. an AoE Marauder as well as a Black Magic tossing, DRK Wannabe MRD. A Tanking Gladiator or a DD Gladiator. Right now everyone has the same setups because we don't need to diversify ourselves yet. I'm sure once they release some NMs and some more uh.. engaging battle types we'll see the jobs start to be different.

At least I hope...
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#17 Oct 16 2010 at 6:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Wow, thanks for the info. Kinda wish there was more info about West Coast heavy servers, but ah well. Thanks for the info on Figaro (that was a server I was thinking about, maybe Trabia will work out better, any info there?)

Does everyone agree with bsphil that the exp curve is harsher? It seems as though people were saying it was faster (but with limit imposed). I took this to mean that a casual player could come on for a few hours a day and level up what would normally take a long time, except that if you did play a long time, the rate slows down. The video on fatigue system seemed to say the curve was less steep, but maybe they were just wrong.

I do find it funny that the exp system is now more in favor of a keeping a punching bag around than tearing through mobs like a meat grinder. I also think the ability swapping could be a lot of fun, and would be VERY interested to see if it could actually move the game away from right/wrong way to play a job. I guess over time, we will know exactly how to build most efficiently, but I cant wait to dive in before that happens and get to play around freely. Maybe I can finally play the Monk I always wanted to.

Btw, the stat swap means you can swap any/all stats as much as you want (when the time is up)? That seems almost ridiculous, but I was incredibly worried about stat spread for phys/magic jobs. The way crafting sounds now kind of worries me, as I totally loved it in FFXI, but the fact that it also increases level kind of blows my mind. Harvesting as well, though from what I can tell on youtube, it is now a far more complex mini-game (almost like hot-cold game on mining).
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#18 Oct 16 2010 at 6:37 PM Rating: Decent
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hillsnr wrote:

Btw, the stat swap means you can swap any/all stats as much as you want (when the time is up)? That seems almost ridiculous, but I was incredibly worried about stat spread for phys/magic jobs. The way crafting sounds now kind of worries me, as I totally loved it in FFXI, but the fact that it also increases level kind of blows my mind. Harvesting as well, though from what I can tell on youtube, it is now a far more complex mini-game (almost like hot-cold game on mining).


I was hesitant to swap my stats around at first because I thought it was a one-time thing, but nope...every 45 minutes.

As to the Hand jo.. wow I can't say it like that.. as to the Gatherer jobs, each has 2 types of points to gather from. One uses your main hand item (Pickaxe/Axe/Fishing Rod), the other your off hand (Hammer/Scythe/Spear). When gathering from the main hand types you get a mini-game of sorts. All three are basic hot-cold games, but each is slightly different. The off-hand spots are just a click/watch animation deal.
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