Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2 3
This Forum is Read Only

Market Wards still fail?Follow

#1 Oct 17 2010 at 5:36 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
**
931 posts
Checked ingame earlier to see how organized the Market Wards are now.

was hoping I could finally buy some equipment. but I went to the battlecraft wards and still all I see is random etc. items like animal glue n ****. So are people just ignoring the categories lol?

Really we better get an AH soon....ridiculous
____________________________
MUTED
#2 Oct 17 2010 at 5:44 AM Rating: Decent
*
242 posts
Sub-optimal =/= failure.

While I would prefer the Auction House, the search system which will indicate which retainers have the item you're seeking will make the wards much more efficient. Until then, you can use sources like ffxiv.yg.com, on which you can post the items you're selling and see who's selling what you want. It's worked for me, I've made about 2 million gil selling this way.
____________________________


#3 Oct 17 2010 at 5:55 AM Rating: Excellent
Anterograde Amnesia
Avatar
*****
12,363 posts
I think Pikko had a good idea that I'm going to try until we can get more retainers, which is to only sell in your bazaar what the ward is for, and move your retainer to the proper ward every few days.

Agreed that it isn't the best solution, but perhaps that will help me target customers.
____________________________
"Choosy MMO's choose Wint." - Louiscool
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist.
Keyser Soze - Ultros
Guide to Setting Up Mumble on a Raspberry Pi
#4 Oct 17 2010 at 6:39 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
120 posts
The wards are not perfect, but if people were not completely retarded they would be working fine. All these idiots piling their retainers full of crystals and walnuts into the "Battlecraft Ward" because it is first on the list is the XIV version of stomping your feet and holding your breath like a child. Refusing to use the wards as intended because you don't like them is childlike. The only people we have to blame for not being able to find anything now is us, not SE.

I filled my retainer up with woodworking mats, put him int he right ward, and voila, 2 days later everything gone except for 1 thing. They're not prefect, but they work, unless you're looking for a weapon...
#5 Oct 17 2010 at 6:56 AM Rating: Decent
Sage
**
562 posts
kaorinite wrote:
The wards are not perfect, but if people were not completely retarded they would be working fine. All these idiots piling their retainers full of crystals and walnuts into the "Battlecraft Ward" because it is first on the list is the XIV version of stomping your feet and holding your breath like a child. Refusing to use the wards as intended because you don't like them is childlike. The only people we have to blame for not being able to find anything now is us, not SE.

I filled my retainer up with woodworking mats, put him int he right ward, and voila, 2 days later everything gone except for 1 thing. They're not prefect, but they work, unless you're looking for a weapon...


In two days my retainer will sell right-priced goods in any ward. I mostly sell raw materials, and if I noticed a significant difference in Ward placement I'd switch my retainer's spot in a heartbeat.

Quite frankly if you put your retainer in one of the last Wards, even if it's the appropriate ward, I've had little luck in selling anything. Nobody goes to these Wards.


Edited, Oct 17th 2010 2:48pm by Whales
____________________________
FFXIV - Fellows - Fabul
FFXI - Fellows - Gilgamesh


#6 Oct 17 2010 at 8:31 AM Rating: Good
14 posts
It's a self-correcting system, in theory but unfortunately it's also self-defeating at the moment. Merchants like the previous poster don't want to bother moving their retainers to the correct wards, selling in the right place, because people still buy from them in the "wrong" wards, and many folks won't bother going to the correct wards because the merchants are still selling their items in the first couple wards.

Until merchants start selling regularly in the correct wards, buyers will have no reason to go there, and vice versa.

On the other hand, when people start trying to use the wards as designed, then it should start to correct itself, as you'll start having merchants unable to sell out-of-ward because people who want to buy are going to the correct wards, and people go to the correct wards because there are people selling the correct items in them.

I suppose the taxation is meant to be a nudge in the right direction, give merchants a reason to use the correct wards, but it might not be a strong enough nudge at this point.
#7 Oct 17 2010 at 8:32 AM Rating: Excellent
*
107 posts
i think the new wards are significantly better than the old ones, but i still think they fail at helping make the game enjoyable.
i still have to search every retainer to see if they have what i want <and if i'm willing to pay their price> which still takes too much time away from killing/crafting.
now i just don't feel the need to check every ward in hopes of someone selling the armor/whatever i'm looking for.
hopefully the search function that they're adding eventually<tm> is an acceptable fix to the time sink that these wards are.
____________________________

#8 Oct 17 2010 at 8:37 AM Rating: Excellent
**
723 posts
Wint wrote:
I think Pikko had a good idea that I'm going to try until we can get more retainers, which is to only sell in your bazaar what the ward is for, and move your retainer to the proper ward every few days.

Agreed that it isn't the best solution, but perhaps that will help me target customers.


This is what I currently do and it's working well. I sell my tailoring goods that I gained from grinding, when a majority of them sell out I move on to another trade's market ward and sell what I have there.
#9 Oct 17 2010 at 8:51 AM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
1,842 posts
To quote "Can't Fix Stupid" I think sums it up nicely. The wards are set up in AH catergories now but people still refuse to use it like one because they think they can't sell on other floors fast enough. I have my retainer full of tailor mats on the tailor ward and it sells just fine, not super fast but gets the job done. I for one am boycotting anyone who refuses to sell on the right floors. They're not only wasting my time but everyone else who is just trying to find the right items they need.
____________________________
FFXIV Dyvid (Awaiting 2.0)
FFXI Dyvid ~ Pandemonium (Retired)
SWTOR Dy'vid Legacy - Canderous Ordo
#10 Oct 17 2010 at 8:58 AM Rating: Good
***
2,010 posts
dyvidd wrote:

To quote "Can't Fix Stupid" I think sums it up nicely. The wards are set up in AH catergories now but people still refuse to use it like one because they think they can't sell on other floors fast enough. I have my retainer full of tailor mats on the tailor ward and it sells just fine, not super fast but gets the job done. I for one am boycotting anyone who refuses to sell on the right floors. They're not only wasting my time but everyone else who is just trying to find the right items they need.


They may be wasting your time, but they feel that SE is wasting EVERYONE's time by sidestepping the issue.
#11 Oct 17 2010 at 8:59 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,104 posts
Yes.

The market wards are still a disorganized, overwhelming mess. Theyre easier to use than before but its still FAR from what's NEEDED in game.
____________________________

Melaahna Valiera
#12 Oct 17 2010 at 9:02 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,842 posts
Torrence wrote:
dyvidd wrote:

To quote "Can't Fix Stupid" I think sums it up nicely. The wards are set up in AH catergories now but people still refuse to use it like one because they think they can't sell on other floors fast enough. I have my retainer full of tailor mats on the tailor ward and it sells just fine, not super fast but gets the job done. I for one am boycotting anyone who refuses to sell on the right floors. They're not only wasting my time but everyone else who is just trying to find the right items they need.


They may be wasting your time, but they feel that SE is wasting EVERYONE's time by sidestepping the issue.

So why punish players if their issue is with SE? What you fail to understand is that this becomes a dominio effect, it one does then another then another and so on. Before you know it's back to spending 3 hours on the top floor checking npc after npc trying to find a bronze dagger instead of walnuts.

Edited, Oct 17th 2010 9:07am by dyvidd
____________________________
FFXIV Dyvid (Awaiting 2.0)
FFXI Dyvid ~ Pandemonium (Retired)
SWTOR Dy'vid Legacy - Canderous Ordo
#13 Oct 17 2010 at 9:28 AM Rating: Good
Even if people were in the right places, what kind of ********* things that it's a fun videogame to search through 50 individual sales screens to find the one item they want? videogame!
____________________________
Die! Die die die. die die die die, die die. - Scarlet Briar
#14 Oct 17 2010 at 9:49 AM Rating: Decent
***
3,530 posts
digitalcraft, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Even if people were in the right places, what kind of ********* thinks that it's...fun... to search through 50 individual sales screens to find the one item they want? videogame!


This. XD
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#15 Oct 17 2010 at 9:58 AM Rating: Good
***
1,636 posts
First things first, there are too many wards. We don't need seperate hat and boot wards. a simple Heavy armor, lighter armor would have been fine.

the second problem, is one I think many people realized would happen when players were suggesting this idea, and thats people selling multiple items. I was looking through i guess the tailors ward, (one thats supposed to sell hooded attire), and i found myself buying a blue haubergeon (to see the color, fyi its just the trim), some gloves, and 2 stacks of undyed hempen cloth I found on various retainers. I actually prefered that i was able to get stuff i wanted from one ward, but it goes against the spirit of the whole thing, and shows that its still a disorganized mess. 3% tax is nothing in this game, people will continue to either add non ward items to their retainers to hope they sell due to higher or more convenient traffic, or they will deliberately put their shard guy in the weapon ward, because they know it'll get their retainer more views.

every improvement made to the ward system makes it less bad, but at the end of the day, its still going to be bad.
____________________________


#16 Oct 17 2010 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
Avatar
***
1,235 posts
I have to say while I was a bit annoyed at seeing bazaars full of mammot pelts and yellow ore in the 1st ward, I totally get it now. I was looking at the issues through the eyes of a serious crafter. I have mostly armor to bazaar. Works great for me! Why isn't everyone on board?
Then I thought about people who are primary battlecraft. They aren't going to have mainly one kind of thing in their bazaar, they are going to be selling things that range all up and down the ward descriptions. Are they supposed to buy 10 extra retainers to put everything in the right place? No one is going to do that.
All I'm saying really is before you jump to judgement on misplaced bazaars like I did at first, just try to consider what you would do with 10 different items to bazaar that aren't related to each other. Stick it in the ward that will have the most viewing potential, or stuff it somewhere no one is going to see it?
SE tried, and I think with the November item/retainer search update this system will start to be a lot more feasible. Well, as feasible as we'll get w/o an AH.

Edited, Oct 17th 2010 12:06pm by Restyoneck
____________________________


"Don't take it personally man, white knights would eat a can of **** if the label said SE on it. If anyone dared mention that it was not a good product, they'd just argue if someone can't appreciate the subtle nuances in the ****, they should just go back to eating lolrealfood, cuz the devs prolly know more about canning food than they do."
#17 Oct 17 2010 at 10:06 AM Rating: Good
***
2,010 posts
Quote:
So why punish players if their issue is with SE? What you fail to understand is that this becomes a dominio effect, it one does then another then another and so on. Before you know it's back to spending 3 hours on the top floor checking npc after npc trying to find a bronze dagger instead of walnuts.


I don't fail to understand anything. I know exactly what is going on. The whole thing is a complete waste of time, it's too limiting, and people can't be bothered with prioritizing one item to sell as opposed to another. People just want to sell all their stuff at once. That's why we have this cluster **** of people in the market wards - not because players are actively trying to make each others lives miserable.

Domino effect or no, I can't accept that SE is blameless in this mess, and this mess is what it will take before they finally admit that the idea is immersive and interesting in theory, but just doesn't work in practice. It's just not practical.


#18 Oct 17 2010 at 10:08 AM Rating: Excellent
***
1,021 posts
I think they are better than before, but still really bad. The first ward (which happens to be the Battlecraft Ward) is a complete mess just like it used to be. It would be better if they had a Misc. Ward that was listed first for all those people that don't want to play along with the new system for whatever reason. On the other hand, I was actually able to find some new equipment for my conjurer within about 20 mins which never happened with the old system. The wards farther down the list are much more likely to mostly have people actually selling that item. It would also be nice if it marked which retainers had at least 1 item matching the ward's name. I'm also seeing more PC bazaars in the wards. I found the player bazaars were very likely to actually have the item corresponding to the ward.
#19 Oct 17 2010 at 10:31 AM Rating: Good
*
241 posts
digitalcraft, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Even if people were in the right places, what kind of ********* things that it's a fun videogame to search through 50 individual sales screens to find the one item they want? videogame!


Right, even if the system was working as intended it's still a bad system.
____________________________
There once was a tiger striped cat. This cat died a million deaths and was reborn a million times and was owned by various people who he didn't care for. The cat wasn't afraid to die... One day, the cat was a free cat, a stray cat. He met a white female cat, and the two cats spent their days happily together. Years passed, and the white cat died of old age. The tiger striped cat cried a million times, and then died. It never
came back to life.
#20 Oct 17 2010 at 10:54 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,104 posts
FeanaroOnPhoenix wrote:
Right, even if the system was working as intended it's still a bad system.
Seriously.

Instead of going to the market wards and selecting 'teleport' why doesnt it just have a search window where i can indicate what i want, see whats there any buy the **** item? Every time I have to shop for something its infuriating; physically moving your character around and having to click on overlapped character models in the HOPE of finding an item you want?

Madness. Off with their heads.
____________________________

Melaahna Valiera
#21 Oct 17 2010 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
Sage
**
562 posts
Errickfoxy wrote:
It's a self-correcting system, in theory but unfortunately it's also self-defeating at the moment. Merchants like the previous poster don't want to bother moving their retainers to the correct wards, selling in the right place, because people still buy from them in the "wrong" wards, and many folks won't bother going to the correct wards because the merchants are still selling their items in the first couple wards.

Until merchants start selling regularly in the correct wards, buyers will have no reason to go there, and vice versa.

On the other hand, when people start trying to use the wards as designed, then it should start to correct itself, as you'll start having merchants unable to sell out-of-ward because people who want to buy are going to the correct wards, and people go to the correct wards because there are people selling the correct items in them.

I suppose the taxation is meant to be a nudge in the right direction, give merchants a reason to use the correct wards, but it might not be a strong enough nudge at this point.


I tested your theory last night and moved my retainer to the appropriate ward and filled them up with only selling items related to that ward at prices below market price and just slightly above vendor price, where applicable.

The result? This morning zero items sold.

I switched them to the second ward on the list, keeping the same items at the same prices. In just five hours I've sold half my goods.

Sorry folks, but the sellers aren't going to go where there aren't any buyers. You can stomp your feet and gnash your teeth all day long about how we're "not doing it right" but in the end all that matters to me as a merchant is selling my goods.

I will say that it is annoying to see retainer upon retainer selling useless junk for prices that indicate to me the player has neither done their research nor hasn't the slightest clue about economics.

Marmot meat supply is off the charts meanwhile there's little to no demand for it, that item is not worth 1,000 no matter how long you stand there with it in your retainer. Furthermore, most of the fish from the beginning areas have no use right now outside of being turned into River Sand, another item in extremely low demand. I'm not paying 1,500 gil for that Tree Toad I fished up a dozen of a few minutes ago to turn it into River Sand.

Look up your items and see if they're even used in a craft right now before you go cluttering up your bazaar with them for ignorant amounts of gil.


Edited, Oct 17th 2010 1:20pm by Whales
____________________________
FFXIV - Fellows - Fabul
FFXI - Fellows - Gilgamesh


#22 Oct 17 2010 at 11:25 AM Rating: Decent
14 posts
That's exactly what I mean, though. This fix isn't going to fix anything, at least not quickly, because the merchants have no reason not to sell in the first wards so long as people still go there to buy things without bothering to check the wards they should be checking. That example there just shows that it's still not really working yet.

I'm not sure the best solution (short of adding an AH, natch), since the taxes aren't enough of a reason to try to sell in the "correct" wards. There's no real incentive, at least on the merchant side, to use the wards as they're intended. If I could come up with a solution then maybe I ought to be working as a game designer, but I guess I'm not that good. ;P
#23 Oct 17 2010 at 11:32 AM Rating: Good
Sage
**
562 posts
Errickfoxy wrote:
That's exactly what I mean, though. This fix isn't going to fix anything, at least not quickly, because the merchants have no reason not to sell in the first wards so long as people still go there to buy things without bothering to check the wards they should be checking. That example there just shows that it's still not really working yet.

I'm not sure the best solution (short of adding an AH, natch), since the taxes aren't enough of a reason to try to sell in the "correct" wards. There's no real incentive, at least on the merchant side, to use the wards as they're intended. If I could come up with a solution then maybe I ought to be working as a game designer, but I guess I'm not that good. ;P


I agree, you have to move the merchant first and the buyers will follow.

I swear, if I open up one more retainer in the battlecraft ward and see stack upon stack of Marmot Meat for 1,000 gil a pop I'm going to scream.



Edited, Oct 18th 2010 1:18am by Whales
____________________________
FFXIV - Fellows - Fabul
FFXI - Fellows - Gilgamesh


#24 Oct 17 2010 at 11:32 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
120 posts
digitalcraft, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Even if people were in the right places, what kind of ********* things that it's a fun videogame to search through 50 individual sales screens to find the one item they want? videogame!


The better question is who thinks it's fun to sift through 150 retainers selling walnuts in the Battlecraft Ward rather than 50 selling actual weapons? It's still a terrible system, but SE corrected the issue a bit and we keep doing this to ourselves.
#25 Oct 17 2010 at 11:36 AM Rating: Good
Sage
**
562 posts
kaorinite wrote:
digitalcraft, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Even if people were in the right places, what kind of ********* things that it's a fun videogame to search through 50 individual sales screens to find the one item they want? videogame!


The better question is who thinks it's fun to sift through 150 retainers selling walnuts in the Battlecraft Ward rather than 50 selling actual weapons? It's still a terrible system, but SE corrected the issue a bit and we keep doing this to ourselves.


I don't think it's fair to say SE corrected the issue a bit. If anything, SE completely failed to understand human nature despite having engineered an MMO for eight years. There has to be more incentive to move your retainers to the appropriate wards.

Edited, Oct 17th 2010 1:52pm by Whales
____________________________
FFXIV - Fellows - Fabul
FFXI - Fellows - Gilgamesh


#26 Oct 17 2010 at 12:47 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,614 posts
JayRams wrote:
Sub-optimal =/= failure.

While I would prefer the Auction House, the search system which will indicate which retainers have the item you're seeking will make the wards much more efficient. Until then, you can use sources like ffxiv.yg.com, on which you can post the items you're selling and see who's selling what you want. It's worked for me, I've made about 2 million gil selling this way.

I can see the path we're on, and it's ridiculous.

Once they implement a search feature, the retainer wards are basically going to be an auction house with a bunch of arbitrary obstacles. It's an auction house, except sellers can only sell one category of items at a time and buyers can only search one ward at a time. It's an auction house, except once you find the item you're looking for you have to hike another hundred feet to buy it. It's an auction house, except you have to teleport to and load an entirely different zone to reach each item category instead of just changing a menu. Whatever dubious benefits there were to the retainer system (the chance to stumble onto hidden deals, I guess?) will be gone, but most of the drawbacks will remain.

Yeah, maybe it'll be usable, but at that point, why not just make it into a proper auction house? Why not do that six months ago?
#27 Oct 17 2010 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
**
723 posts
I'm of two minds on this. As a buyer, it'd be great if everyone would keep their retainers in the right wards. Mostly so I don't have to wade through their crap.

However, as a buyer I see it completely opposite. I had some footwear to sell the other day so I looked for the right ward. Sure, I could sell it in the cobbler's den alongside the 2 other lonely souls that were selling their wares. But I wouldn't get any customers. No one is willing to go through that trouble. Instead, I managed to grab a stall in the battlecraft den and my booties sold like hot cakes. You go to where the customers are.

In summary: A b***h got boots to sell. Ain't no money in trying to save the world.
____________________________


Liberty is too precious a thing to be buried in books.
#28 Oct 17 2010 at 1:46 PM Rating: Default
Avatar
**
556 posts
I don't understand how anything can be useless junk when everything seems to be a Mat for a craft. If I'm not mistaken isn't there a Tradeskills ward for "useless junk?" The wards are not perfect but its a step in the right direction. Its up to the community to make it work to the best of its current capability. SE promised a search function we just have to wait, patience is a virtue.
____________________________
Jayy Submor-Hyperion-Slash Flex
#29 Oct 17 2010 at 1:58 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
776 posts
Borkachev wrote:

Once they implement a search feature, the retainer wards are basically going to be an auction house with a bunch of arbitrary obstacles.


This sums it up completely. All they are doing now is making a completely convoluted AH system, may as well just throw in the towel and make a real AH.

-Ten

____________________________
I like my women nicely animated, with lots of fanservice.
#30 Oct 17 2010 at 2:00 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
562 posts
IamTuck the Eccentric wrote:
I don't understand how anything can be useless junk when everything seems to be a Mat for a craft.


Everything is not. At some point, most likely, but there quite a few low-level drops that are not used for anything right now.

Edit: well, the ZAM crafting search could be leading me astray on this. For instance, I considered Mutton Loin to be junk, as it did not list it as an ingredient in any recipe:

http://ffxiv.zam.com/en/item.html?ffxivitem=3011005

However there is a Mutton Stew, but it has no known ingredients list:

http://ffxiv.zam.com/en/item.html?ffxivitem=3010506

So it's either unknown or not yet implemented.

IamTuck the Eccentric wrote:
If I'm not mistaken isn't there a Tradeskills ward for "useless junk?" The wards are not perfect but its a step in the right direction.


That's what I thought as well, but according to the duty-free list it's a ward for items to become the tradeskill, such as pickaxes, hatchets and such.

There is no catch-all, raw materials ward 'junk' ward because, well, according to SE every item is suppose to go with something. Except that's not the case right now and there are quite a few items that are used very rarely but drop in abundance.



Edited, Oct 17th 2010 4:04pm by Whales
____________________________
FFXIV - Fellows - Fabul
FFXI - Fellows - Gilgamesh


#31 Oct 17 2010 at 2:14 PM Rating: Decent
Torrence wrote:
dyvidd wrote:

To quote "Can't Fix Stupid" I think sums it up nicely. The wards are set up in AH catergories now but people still refuse to use it like one because they think they can't sell on other floors fast enough. I have my retainer full of tailor mats on the tailor ward and it sells just fine, not super fast but gets the job done. I for one am boycotting anyone who refuses to sell on the right floors. They're not only wasting my time but everyone else who is just trying to find the right items they need.


They may be wasting your time, but they feel that SE is wasting EVERYONE's time by sidestepping the issue.


They're not sidestepping anything. The chances to the ward layout were the first step. The addition of search functions will be the next. You're not getting an AH. Deal with it. SE has no intention of adding one or they'd have told us about that instead of what they're adding to the wards to improve their functionality. Rate me down, argue, cry, scream, do whatever you need to do...SE will spend the next 2 years tweaking the **** out of the retainer ward system before they'll even think about adding an auction house.

I'm looking forward to a search feature for the wards. All I ever go into them for is shards. I almost find it amusing when I come across a retainer name "Crystalsnshards" or "Buymycrystals" and when their list opens up, it's full of walnuts and and marmot meat. And that's really the heart of the issue right now. You can go into a retainer ward with forty or fifty retainers and only a dozen or so will have anything that they've actual put any thought into making and selling. The rest are players that have gone out critter mashing for a few hours and then head back to town and load up their retainer with 10 slots of miscellaneous **** that they're just hoping to get more for than they'd get from a vendor.

I'm going to let you in on a closely guarded secret: when people talk about having a developer listen to it's players, what they're really saying is, "I want the developer to listen to me and do what I (and the people who agree with me) want." It doesn't work that way. SE has an idea in mind for what they want to see in the game and when it comes to things like current systems not functioning properly or revisions to systems currently in place to make them more user friendly, chances are pretty good based on what SE has done so far that they're going to listen. When it comes to revamping or overhauling systems that they're happy with as a base concept, expecting them to change it is an exercise in futility.

The wards have promise. They'll likely never have the convenience of an auction house, and they don't need to. And you know **** well that if they added an auction house, it would be a month before you numpties would be screaming about RMT influence. You can't have your cake and eat it to. You guys spent years screaming at SE for their handling of RMT and they try to come up with solutions and it's still your way or the highway.
#32 Oct 17 2010 at 3:34 PM Rating: Excellent
***
1,636 posts
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Torrence wrote:
dyvidd wrote:

To quote "Can't Fix Stupid" I think sums it up nicely. The wards are set up in AH catergories now but people still refuse to use it like one because they think they can't sell on other floors fast enough. I have my retainer full of tailor mats on the tailor ward and it sells just fine, not super fast but gets the job done. I for one am boycotting anyone who refuses to sell on the right floors. They're not only wasting my time but everyone else who is just trying to find the right items they need.


They may be wasting your time, but they feel that SE is wasting EVERYONE's time by sidestepping the issue.


They're not sidestepping anything. The chances to the ward layout were the first step. The addition of search functions will be the next. You're not getting an AH. Deal with it. SE has no intention of adding one or they'd have told us about that instead of what they're adding to the wards to improve their functionality. Rate me down, argue, cry, scream, do whatever you need to do...SE will spend the next 2 years tweaking the **** out of the retainer ward system before they'll even think about adding an auction house.

I'm looking forward to a search feature for the wards. All I ever go into them for is shards. I almost find it amusing when I come across a retainer name "Crystalsnshards" or "Buymycrystals" and when their list opens up, it's full of walnuts and and marmot meat. And that's really the heart of the issue right now. You can go into a retainer ward with forty or fifty retainers and only a dozen or so will have anything that they've actual put any thought into making and selling. The rest are players that have gone out critter mashing for a few hours and then head back to town and load up their retainer with 10 slots of miscellaneous sh*t that they're just hoping to get more for than they'd get from a vendor.

I'm going to let you in on a closely guarded secret: when people talk about having a developer listen to it's players, what they're really saying is, "I want the developer to listen to me and do what I (and the people who agree with me) want." It doesn't work that way. SE has an idea in mind for what they want to see in the game and when it comes to things like current systems not functioning properly or revisions to systems currently in place to make them more user friendly, chances are pretty good based on what SE has done so far that they're going to listen. When it comes to revamping or overhauling systems that they're happy with as a base concept, expecting them to change it is an exercise in futility.

The wards have promise. They'll likely never have the convenience of an auction house, and they don't need to. And you know **** well that if they added an auction house, it would be a month before you numpties would be screaming about RMT influence. You can't have your cake and eat it to. You guys spent years screaming at SE for their handling of RMT and they try to come up with solutions and it's still your way or the highway.



SE's currently working on an auction house. They'll calling it retainer search. It will be divided into 60 seperate locations, and it will be clunkier, more time consuming, and all around worse than any AH, any MMO has every made. and it will be better than market wards.
____________________________


#33 Oct 17 2010 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,408 posts
I found nothing wrong with market system, give it a few days for people to get used to it.
____________________________


If my velocity starts to make you sweat, then just don't
let go
#34 Oct 17 2010 at 4:46 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,842 posts
This is a tough issue to fix. You really need an AH of sorts but don't want to get rid of the market wards either. Obviously you can't trust people to do the right thing but you want to give the community the freedom to decide how things should work.

We know SE is coming out with a /search next month but how robust is it going to be? Server, city, or just ward floor? We also know they want to have icons but if it's user control they can simply put the ideal icon up so you'll check them.

I hate to say it but a game controlled system might be the only way to do this without having people ***** it up.
____________________________
FFXIV Dyvid (Awaiting 2.0)
FFXI Dyvid ~ Pandemonium (Retired)
SWTOR Dy'vid Legacy - Canderous Ordo
#35 Oct 17 2010 at 5:10 PM Rating: Good
***
2,081 posts
What they should do is add an AH to be the main source of commerce in the game. Then they can keep the retainers and market wards, but allow the market wards to be a tax free area. This will still encourage the use of the wards and retainers, while drastically improving the practicality and functionality of the game. I would be incredibly please if this is the direction SE eventually heads. Someone drop Tanaka an e-mail.
____________________________


#36 Oct 17 2010 at 6:04 PM Rating: Excellent
*
137 posts
KujaKoF wrote:
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Torrence wrote:
dyvidd wrote:

To quote "Can't Fix Stupid" I think sums it up nicely. The wards are set up in AH catergories now but people still refuse to use it like one because they think they can't sell on other floors fast enough. I have my retainer full of tailor mats on the tailor ward and it sells just fine, not super fast but gets the job done. I for one am boycotting anyone who refuses to sell on the right floors. They're not only wasting my time but everyone else who is just trying to find the right items they need.


They may be wasting your time, but they feel that SE is wasting EVERYONE's time by sidestepping the issue.


They're not sidestepping anything. The chances to the ward layout were the first step. The addition of search functions will be the next. You're not getting an AH. Deal with it. SE has no intention of adding one or they'd have told us about that instead of what they're adding to the wards to improve their functionality. Rate me down, argue, cry, scream, do whatever you need to do...SE will spend the next 2 years tweaking the **** out of the retainer ward system before they'll even think about adding an auction house.

I'm looking forward to a search feature for the wards. All I ever go into them for is shards. I almost find it amusing when I come across a retainer name "Crystalsnshards" or "Buymycrystals" and when their list opens up, it's full of walnuts and and marmot meat. And that's really the heart of the issue right now. You can go into a retainer ward with forty or fifty retainers and only a dozen or so will have anything that they've actual put any thought into making and selling. The rest are players that have gone out critter mashing for a few hours and then head back to town and load up their retainer with 10 slots of miscellaneous sh*t that they're just hoping to get more for than they'd get from a vendor.

I'm going to let you in on a closely guarded secret: when people talk about having a developer listen to it's players, what they're really saying is, "I want the developer to listen to me and do what I (and the people who agree with me) want." It doesn't work that way. SE has an idea in mind for what they want to see in the game and when it comes to things like current systems not functioning properly or revisions to systems currently in place to make them more user friendly, chances are pretty good based on what SE has done so far that they're going to listen. When it comes to revamping or overhauling systems that they're happy with as a base concept, expecting them to change it is an exercise in futility.

The wards have promise. They'll likely never have the convenience of an auction house, and they don't need to. And you know **** well that if they added an auction house, it would be a month before you numpties would be screaming about RMT influence. You can't have your cake and eat it to. You guys spent years screaming at SE for their handling of RMT and they try to come up with solutions and it's still your way or the highway.



SE's currently working on an auction house. They'll calling it retainer search. It will be divided into 60 seperate locations, and it will be clunkier, more time consuming, and all around worse than any AH, any MMO has every made. and it will be better than market wards.


It amazes me how SE is still trying to pound the square peg in the round hole. Instead of just getting the freaking round peg they decide to carve the square peg, one corner at a time, until it becomes a round peg.
#37 Oct 17 2010 at 6:23 PM Rating: Default
KujaKoF wrote:

SE's currently working on an auction house. They'll calling it retainer search. It will be divided into 60 seperate locations, and it will be clunkier, more time consuming, and all around worse than any AH, any MMO has every made. and it will be better than market wards.


That's not an auction house. What people are crying for is a one stop location where they can search, buy, and list for sale anything/everything possible, and it's not going to happen. If SE wanted it to happen, they'd have said so by now.
#38 Oct 17 2010 at 6:27 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
*
208 posts
Tenzai wrote:
Borkachev wrote:

Once they implement a search feature, the retainer wards are basically going to be an auction house with a bunch of arbitrary obstacles.


This sums it up completely. All they are doing now is making a completely convoluted AH system, may as well just throw in the towel and make a real AH.

-Ten



ummmm i still dont see how that will make this any less painful....

say you use a new search feature, find that retairner named "Swrodguy" is selling the sword you want cheapest, well now you gotta run around a crowded room full of retainers that you have to sit around and wait to load on the screen, it will probably end us taking like 10 mins just to find the guy selling the sword even though you know his name :-/
#39 Oct 17 2010 at 6:55 PM Rating: Excellent
***
1,636 posts
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:

SE's currently working on an auction house. They'll calling it retainer search. It will be divided into 60 seperate locations, and it will be clunkier, more time consuming, and all around worse than any AH, any MMO has every made. and it will be better than market wards.


That's not an auction house. What people are crying for is a one stop location where they can search, buy, and list for sale anything/everything possible, and it's not going to happen. If SE wanted it to happen, they'd have said so by now.



And you're right, there likely (because I really can't see them ever giving up on retainrs) will never be a single NPC that will let you search/buy/sell for items. Instead we're probably going into wards, and we'll have 3 seperate NPCs to talk to, the searcher to find, your own retainer to sell, and the searched retainers to buy. If the searcher told you what price each retainer charged, you have WOW's AH divided up into 3 steps. The system from how I've interpreted from what they've said, looks to be a cross between an "AH" and the market wards. Basically how I put it, each ward will have its own mini-AH system.
____________________________


#40 Oct 17 2010 at 6:58 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
demegod wrote:
Tenzai wrote:
Borkachev wrote:
Once they implement a search feature, the retainer wards are basically going to be an auction house with a bunch of arbitrary obstacles.
This sums it up completely. All they are doing now is making a completely convoluted AH system, may as well just throw in the towel and make a real AH.

-Ten
ummmm i still dont see how that will make this any less painful....

say you use a new search feature, find that retairner named "Swrodguy" is selling the sword you want cheapest, well now you gotta run around a crowded room full of retainers that you have to sit around and wait to load on the screen, it will probably end us taking like 10 mins just to find the guy selling the sword even though you know his name :-/
You're agreeing on the same point, I think you misunderstood what he said.



Edited, Oct 17th 2010 7:58pm by bsphil
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#41 Oct 17 2010 at 6:58 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,614 posts
Aurelius wrote:
That's not an auction house. What people are crying for is a one stop location where they can search, buy, and list for sale anything/everything possible, and it's not going to happen. If SE wanted it to happen, they'd have said so by now.

They have said so.

Tanaka wrote:
Regarding Final Fantasy XIV and the market battle system is something we would like to consider the equilevent to the auction house we had in Final Fantasy XI. Only that you'll also be able to fix your equipment and things like that. It is something we really want people to enjoy. Also after the release of the game we will see how it goes and for example find out what kind of search options players will want and need and improve the situation. We don't really want to introduce the auctionhouse from the beginning because that is going to determine the economy system. So we want to improve it slowly and adjust it accordingly.

Even if that was a misquote, they're going to be feeling the pressure over the next few months. Stubbornness is no match for players quitting in droves.
#42 Oct 17 2010 at 7:55 PM Rating: Default
*
88 posts
I think all the frustration with Market Wards and retainers once SE implements all the quests that drop all the gear we need (but can't get yet).
#43 Oct 17 2010 at 8:39 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
24 posts
I have not read all of the previous posts so I might be repeating someone else's story.

I am of the opinion that the new wards have improved both my shopping and selling experience a great deal. It's not a 100% improvement to be sure but even though I still can't find everything I need, I've replaced a lot of items that I was looking to. Granted, many people have not used the wards properly but the ones that have, have made a pretty penny off of me. I am a crafter at heart, love love love it. I have finally been able to upgrade my tools. Before the ward revamp, I could not find *any* saws or fishing rods for sale. After visiting the tradecraft/fieldcraft wards in the city, I have a new skillet, saw, alembic and fishing rod. =)

I tend to focus on making wands and canes since they're easier for me at the moment and I have sold a lot more than I used to because people visit the spellcraft ward when they're looking for caster weapons. I do sell other carpenter items on my vendor as well but not in enough quantities to relocate my vendor. The majority of what I have for sale is caster weapons so my vendor does well in her location.

I'm not griping nearly as much about the state of things so I'd say the new ward system is a great improvement. =)

Edited, Oct 17th 2010 10:40pm by LadyMarisa
#44 Oct 17 2010 at 8:40 PM Rating: Good
*
189 posts
Guess they gonna have to put a 50% tax to get people in the right ward, according to SE your only allowed to specialize in one area but feel free to level up each job.
____________________________
FFXI Alexandar 51 SUM
Ramuh 50 SUM 53 THF
WoW Malygos 80MAG 60 WLK
The forgtn cst 80 MAG 73 WLK

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/rc/character/status?cicuid=2494669
Retainer: Weaponsandshields
#45 Oct 17 2010 at 8:46 PM Rating: Good
***
1,636 posts
LadyMarisa wrote:


I am of the opinion that the new wards have improved both my shopping and selling experience a great deal. It's not a 100% improvement to be sure but even though I still can't find everything I need, I've replaced a lot of items that I was looking to. Granted, many people have not used the wards properly but the ones that have, have made a pretty penny off of me. I am a crafter at heart, love love love it. I have finally been able to upgrade my tools. Before the ward revamp, I could not find *any* saws or fishing rods for sale. After visiting the tradecraft/fieldcraft wards in the city, I have a new skillet, saw, alembic and fishing rod. =)

Edited, Oct 17th 2010 10:40pm by LadyMarisa


See, that's one of the flaws I think with the system, people are using it properly. If we wern't meant to be putting stuff in a ward, SE shouldn't have let us. Therefore, I'm assuming that people are left the choice to make for themselves as to which ward is the most beneficial. I use this example alot, but regarding shards. I can put my retainer in the shard ward, and hope that enough people entering it randomly spawn close enough by me, that I'm one of the 5-10 people they look at before deciding which is the cheapest and getting on with their day. Or I can set my guy up in a ward that encourages more shopping around, like armor/weapons/jewelery. That way I can try and corner the market on people need weapons and crystals, but looked for weapons first. Now people have a slightly more organized way to determine which ward is best for their items, but its not always going to be the one with the tax break.

Edited, Oct 17th 2010 10:48pm by KujaKoF
____________________________


#46 Oct 17 2010 at 9:03 PM Rating: Decent
Borkachev wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
That's not an auction house. What people are crying for is a one stop location where they can search, buy, and list for sale anything/everything possible, and it's not going to happen. If SE wanted it to happen, they'd have said so by now.

They have said so.


No, they haven't. He's talking about search functions and the like and saying they don't want to add those from the beginning because it would undermine the economy and he's right. He says flat out that they see the retainer wards system as being to XIV what the auction house was to XI, not that the retainer wards are the start and the auction house comes later.

Quote:
Even if that was a misquote, they're going to be feeling the pressure over the next few months. Stubbornness is no match for players quitting in droves.


And my sense is that they're not going to cave. At all. They're going to implement a search function and players who won't be satisfied with anything less than an auction window are going to blast them and they're going to ignore it. Players who approach them with requests/feedback that involve tweaks to the search system of the wards concept as a whole will get SE's ear, not the people who scream bloody murder that nothing less than a full featured AH will do. And then those people are going to spend the next several years using that as justification to claim that SE never listens and XIV is so horrible (while they continue to play it) and generally just being the negative Nancies they were with FFXI.

As it already stands, if players would spend a little time getting used to the wards system instead of standing around all day crying about it, they'd realize that it's not all that bad to navigate (especially since they slightly streamlined the retainer interface process). It's still not as easy as I would like to find what I'm looking for, but that's in the works. Gone are the days of standing at an auction window drooling over stuff instead of actually playing the game. Not exactly a bad thing, imo.
#47 Oct 17 2010 at 9:10 PM Rating: Excellent
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Gone are the days of standing at an auction window drooling over stuff instead of actually playing the game. Not exactly a bad thing, imo.


Oh come on, that's the most lazy excuse for the system yet. There's no possible way you can say that being able to just search and find take you out of the game longer than opening and closing hundreds of windows. That's ludicrous. If YOU spent hours drooling at items in the auction house, that's your deal, but you're going to spend even longer then if you have to manually browse each person's list.
____________________________
Die! Die die die. die die die die, die die. - Scarlet Briar
#48 Oct 17 2010 at 9:13 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
1,104 posts
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Gone are the days of standing at an auction window drooling over stuff instead of actually playing the game.
Clicking on hundreds of stacked, overlapped NPC models in an effort to find a single item instead of playing the game is better? If you say so.
____________________________

Melaahna Valiera
#49 Oct 17 2010 at 9:23 PM Rating: Decent
digitalcraft, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Gone are the days of standing at an auction window drooling over stuff instead of actually playing the game. Not exactly a bad thing, imo.


Oh come on, that's the most lazy excuse for the system yet. There's no possible way you can say that being able to just search and find take you out of the game longer than opening and closing hundreds of windows. That's ludicrous. If YOU spent hours drooling at items in the auction house, that's your deal, but you're going to spend even longer then if you have to manually browse each person's list.


You're not reading all of my posts or you're not understanding me...one or the other.

Once the search function is implemented, provided it is robust enough, the only difference between the ward system and the "stand there, search, buy, and list for sale" concept of an AH will be that once you get a hit on what you're looking for, you'll have to physically go get it. It's really not that hard to navigate a retainer ward looking for a specific retainer. I've done it using YG's bazaar feature. And the benefit to the playerbase is that it will make it that much harder and more time consuming for any one player (or even group of players) to corner the market on much of anything by buying low and then selling at inflated prices.

I've never said it was perfect, but I see what SE is aiming for and am willing to meet them halfway relative to what we started with when the game first launched. The people unwilling to budge are the ones who are going to wind up disappointed.
#50 Oct 17 2010 at 9:38 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
**
562 posts
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
And the benefit to the playerbase is that it will make it that much harder and more time consuming for any one player (or even group of players) to corner the market on much of anything by buying low and then selling at inflated prices.


Why is that?
____________________________
FFXIV - Fellows - Fabul
FFXI - Fellows - Gilgamesh


#51 Oct 17 2010 at 9:53 PM Rating: Decent
***
2,208 posts
I am having a great time with the Market ward changes. I noe specifically make Fieldcraft items, hence I have a stand in the FieldCraft Ward. I make Bronze Axes, Bronze Hatchets, and Plumed Bronze Axes and cannot keep up with th emand for them. So sometimee I will be left with only Misc. items after my 4-6 tools sell, but that doesn't mean before I went to bed that majority of my bazaar was for the right ward. I also can go to the Iron mongers ward and find Materials I need pretty easily. Ofcourse there are still idiots who sell in wrong zone, but there will always be idiots.

All in all I give he Market Ward system a thumbs up, and will be even better once we get the search function for it.
____________________________

FFXI: Maddog - 99 BST, BLM, RDM, WAR


« Previous 1 2 3
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 21 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (21)