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Light Strike Findings (Updated with new test 10/18)Follow

#1 Oct 17 2010 at 11:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Based on the description SE gave PGL on the official site, Square claimed that PGL had two stances. A defensive stance and an offensive stance. I couldn't find any abilities other than Light Strike.

The description reads:
"Attack with your hand-to-hand weapon, dealing blunt damage. Increases physical defense and evasion."

Now, the description says it doesn't stack at all, so it seemed like a lackluster ability only to be used when it wears off. But I questioned, "What if it does stack?" I started to use Light Strike only and eyeballed a noticeable evasion increase, and that's what inspired me to test this. So like any good theory crafter I got out a notepad, and took down some notes. Here are my findings.

Polare Ironsmite
Highlander. 11 PGL
41 STR, 60 VIT, 44 DEX, 40 INT, 60 MND, 60 PIE.
Evasion 118. Defense 123.
For the sake of the test, I couldn't completely reach 100 on both defense and evasion, so I got as close as I could.
Target: Thistletail Marmot (All Blue)

Test Number 1:
Using Heavy Strike only to gain the attention of the mob.
Total attacks: 208
Evaded: 32 or 15.38%
Missed: 16 or 7.69%
Total Damage: 4064
Damage taken overtime per hit: 25.4
Maximum Damage Taken: 36
Minimum Damage Taken: 23
Average WS Damage Taken: 42.64
Average Parry Damage: 11.11

Test Number 2:
Using Light Strike only once it wore off.
Total Attacks: 212
Evaded: 36 or 16.98%
Missed: 18 or 8.49%
Total damage: 3646
Damage Taken overtime per hit: 23.07
Maximum damage taken: 36
Minimum damage taken: 23
Average WS Damage Taken: 41.61
Average Parry Damage: 10.98

Test Number 3:
Using Light Strike in succession. 2 Second in between each attack after I ran out of stamina.
Total Attacks: 210
Evaded: 44 or 20.95%
Missed: 24 or 11.42%
Total Damage: 3038
Damage Taken Overtime per hit: 19.98
Maximum Damage Taken: 37
Minimum Damage Taken: 23
Average WS Damage taken: 43.78
Average Parry damage: 10.61

Conclusion: Light Strike does have a more potent effect when stacked. Minimum damage is the same across all test. The Marmot missed more and I evaded a lot more when I used Light Strike one after another, thus bringing my total damage taken overtime a lot lower.

So for all those evasion tank PGL out there, stacking Light Attack will reduce your total damage overtime.

I'll try and retest this once I gain more ranks and see if I get similar results. It may be a small sample size, but it was enough to know that Light Strike does stack.





Edited, Oct 18th 2010 9:33pm by Aristio
#2 Oct 17 2010 at 12:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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#3 Oct 17 2010 at 12:26 PM Rating: Good
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It's PGL, not PLG.
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#4 Oct 17 2010 at 12:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ralrra wrote:
It's PGL, not PLG.


Sorry, fixed it up now.

Edited, Oct 17th 2010 2:30pm by Aristio
#5 Oct 17 2010 at 12:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ralrra wrote:
It's PGL, not PLG.


Don't be jealous of his rank 11 Plague.
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#6 Oct 17 2010 at 1:18 PM Rating: Decent
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IMO needs more testing, the differences are not so much that it couldn't just be luck.
#7 Oct 17 2010 at 1:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Good start, but you need to get a whole lot more raw data. I'd say that once you get >15 of each type of test you could throw it into Minitab/Excel to see if there is some significant difference.
#8 Oct 17 2010 at 1:44 PM Rating: Good
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Siollus wrote:
Good start, but you need to get a whole lot more raw data. I'd say that once you get >15 of each type of test you could throw it into Minitab/Excel to see if there is some significant difference.


That would be possible at maximum rank where I couldn't rank up anymore. But as it stands, I could rank up mid-testing and completely mess up my final results. This was more of a preliminary test. Due to the lack of knowing what the target's rank is compared to mine, it would be hard finding a target mob every rank to test on. I'll definitely do more test once I can, but as it stands now, I just hit rank 12. Anyone is free to test it for themselves at a higher rank and see if they get similar results.
#9 Oct 17 2010 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Highlander. 11 PGL

Quote:
Target: Thistletail Marmot (All Blue)

I don't remember when Thistletails start to con blue, but if it is before 11, your targets may be in small range of levels. Hm, still, it would be a very small range and ~1000 damage difference from baseline is promising.

Edited, Oct 17th 2010 3:55pm by Almalexia
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#10 Oct 17 2010 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
The lowest Thistletail Marmots should turn blue at 8 I believe. The highest ones should turn blue at 12.
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#11 Oct 17 2010 at 2:13 PM Rating: Default
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use the mythbusters formula 18% error margin. unless theres a 18% or higher diffrence the myth is busted

Edited, Oct 17th 2010 3:14pm by Galkaholics
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#12 Oct 17 2010 at 2:46 PM Rating: Good
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Yabusame wrote:
The lowest Thistletail Marmots should turn blue at 8 I believe. The highest ones should turn blue at 12.


I found some Thistletails that con'd green @ 14.
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#13 Oct 17 2010 at 3:07 PM Rating: Decent
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The Marmots I was fighting were green at 10. Turned blue once I hit 11.
#14 Oct 17 2010 at 4:58 PM Rating: Good
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Your sample group is flawed. Marmots have different stats depending on their level. To actually get valid results you would have to fight about 3x 100 of the same mob and then probably test another group of monsters (dodos or something) to verify that it carries over.

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#15 Oct 17 2010 at 8:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for testing this out. Its always good to see tests done with actual stats behind it.

This is a very good start to understanding how those abilities work. I noticed every time someone does a test like this, people always respond with "the test is flawed" or the "sample size is too small." They need to realize that tests like these are just more or less setting a foundation for an educated hypothesis and challenging people to disprove it. That and with no real tools it is REALLY HARD to gather stats in the amount that would leave no doubt.

Question, the skill said it increases defense and evasion. Looking at your numbers it doesn't appear that the maximum or minimum damage changed at all. Does this mean the skill does nothing for defense?

Edited, Oct 17th 2010 10:18pm by Zerrius
#16 Oct 17 2010 at 10:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Zerrius wrote:
Thanks for testing this out. Its always good to see tests done with actual stats behind it.

This is a very good start to understanding how those abilities work. I noticed every time someone does a test like this, people always respond with "the test is flawed" or the "sample size is too small." They need to realize that tests like these are just more or less setting a foundation for an educated hypothesis and challenging people to disprove it. That and with no real tools it is REALLY HARD to gather stats in the amount that would leave no doubt.

Question, the skill said it increases defense and evasion. Looking at your numbers it doesn't appear that the maximum or minimum damage changed at all. Does this mean the skill does nothing for defense?

Edited, Oct 17th 2010 10:18pm by Zerrius


I completely agree. It may not be a foolproof test, but it does present enough information for further investigation. Maybe my theory is correct, maybe it isn't. Further test will disprove or prove it, but right now there aren't solid parses and I'm not rank 50.

I noticed the same thing. It might have to do with level correlation that was present in FFXI. It may be that no matter my defense, 23 was the absolute lowest (Normal attack) I was able to be hit for on the target mobs. I'm going to rank up a bit and record another 200 attacks for each. I'll post the results again once I have them.
#17 Oct 18 2010 at 1:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Zerrius wrote:
I noticed every time someone does a test like this, people always respond with "the test is flawed" or the "sample size is too small." They need to realize that tests like these are just more or less setting a foundation for an educated hypothesis and challenging people to disprove it. That and with no real tools it is REALLY HARD to gather stats in the amount that would leave no doubt.

Unfortunately, many people become impatient waiting for consistent results. They spread preliminary tests like this one as absolute certainty. "I READ IT ON THE FORUMS/WIKI," they say, "SO IT MUST BE TRUE. HE HAD AUTHORITATIVE-LOOKING NUMBERS AND PERCENTAGES AND EVERYTHING."

Game mechanics threads are not the sort for people to wander in and post gj rate up :). I imagine OP, having undertaken this task in the first place, was prepared to have his work deconstructed and criticized. Not because we think his tests are stupid, but because we are trying to help focus and improve them.

So don't confuse rigorous scientific inquiry with ungratefulness. We know OP's work will go unthanked and uncredited on the internet for years to come, anyway!
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#18 Oct 18 2010 at 3:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
So for all those evasion tank PGL out there, stacking Light Attack will reduce your total damage overtime.


But based on your theory, would increase the amount of times you can use abilities such as Jarring strike.
#19 Oct 18 2010 at 5:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Here is the latest test on Light Strike. I have ranked up to rank 14 and switched my targets to Dodos. The majority of them were green/yellow, with some blue thrown in there every now and again. Same format as last test, but I did not record WS damage from the dodo because I turned off the "enfeebling effect on you" filter, which took out that damage.

Polare Ironsmite
Highlander. 11 PGL
41 STR, 60 VIT, 44 DEX, 40 INT, 60 MND, 60 PIE.
Evasion 124. Defense 149.
Target: Dodo (Yellow/Green/Blue)

Test 1. Using Heavy Strike exclusively.
Total Attacks: 304
Evaded: 14 or 4.60%
Missed: 30 or 9.86%
Total Damage: 19380
Damage taken overtime per hit: 74.53
Maximum Damage Taken: 113
Minimum Damage Taken: 50
Average WS Damage Taken: No record.
Average Parry Damage: 34.78

Test 2. Using Light Strike -only- when it wore off.
Total Attacks: 306
Evaded: 19 or 6.02%
Missed: 28 or 9.15%
Total Damage: 17829
Damage taken over time per hit: 69.10
Maximum Damage Taken: 109
Minimum Damage Taken: 47
Average WS Damage Taken: No record.
Average Parry Damage: 34.16

Test 3. Using only light strike in succession.
Total Attacks: 310
Evaded: 38 or 12.25%
Missed: 28 or 9.03%
Total Damage: 14816
Damage taken overtime per hit: 60.72
Maximum Damage Taken: 96
Minimum Damage Taken: 44
Average WS Damage Taken: No record.
Average Parry Damage: 32.60

My test results seem to be very similar to my last testing. These were much tougher targets, so the total amount of damage skyrocketed. I also got attacked 100 extra times on each test just for extra data. One thing I did notice was the Dodo's miss rate was similar for all test. It seems my evasion does not effect the mob's accuracy. Maximum damage and minimum damage were vastly improved when I only used Light Strike.

Conclusion: While this doesn't prove that Light Strike does get better when you stack it, I am seeing a drastic decrease in damage taken over time when I do. Whether this accounts for a raise in my defense, or a raise in my evasion, stacking Light Strike seems to give you a substantial decrease in damage taken over time.

As a side note, while this does lower your DPS overtime, you can still do significant damage through Jarring Strike/Haymaker as a result to the increase in evasion. More testing is needed for final results.
#20 Oct 18 2010 at 6:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Evilhobbit wrote:
Ralrra wrote:
It's PGL, not PLG.


Don't be jealous of his rank 11 Plague.


lol
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#21 Oct 19 2010 at 2:52 PM Rating: Good
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Great testing... i tend to spam Light Strike as I find the damage difference between Light/Heavy a bit negligible, and was wondering why my pugilist seems so much survivable than my Lancer or even Marauder. Flat out being missed/evading 33% of a mob's attacks would explain quite a bit.

If you test again int he future, can you check the parry rates. I'm wondering if parry rate goes up/down w/ DEF or if parry is strictly tied your weapon parry stat.


Edited, Oct 19th 2010 4:53pm by ixion13
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